[HN Gopher] Wyze $20 Smart Watch
___________________________________________________________________
Wyze $20 Smart Watch
Author : ignorantguy
Score : 116 points
Date : 2020-12-01 19:37 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (wyze.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (wyze.com)
| miguelrochefort wrote:
| I often wonder how Wyze makes any money.
|
| They're usually 2-10 times cheaper than their competitors, while
| providing better features, better design, and better support.
|
| I love all of my Wyze devices and purchased another $100 worth of
| them just yesterday (3 bulbs, 2 sockets, 3 sensors, 1 camera, 1
| SD card).
|
| I like how they go out of their way to add features to their
| devices. For example, they provide a firmware for the Wyze Cam
| that turns it into a webcam, which I've been using for online
| education for the past few months.
|
| For the past few days, I've done extensive research on smart
| watches and fitness bands. I looked into everything, from Apple
| Watch, Tizen, Pebble, WearOS, Fitbit, PineTime, etc. I haven't
| found anything with such a good value as the Wyze Watch. Some of
| the hackable nRF52832 based devices (PineTime, Colmi P8) have
| similar prices, but they have a smaller display, no SPo2 sensor,
| and you basically have to write your own OS (InfiniTime, WASP-OS,
| Zephyr, RIOT).
|
| I'm really impressed. I wonder if there's a catch.
| adkadskhj wrote:
| It's funny - i avoid Wyze because it seems such a good deal.
| _Something_ seems off about that, the price is simply _too
| good_ - and i loathe being the product these days.
| gm wrote:
| I hate being the product as well, but it's pretty much
| inescapable now. Paying for a service does not opt you out of
| being marketed to other income streams as a product (ie,
| combined stats, being part of a test group, etc).
|
| The best we can hope for by paying for a product is getting
| additional features and not being inconvenienced (ie,
| avoiding ads).
| adkadskhj wrote:
| I agree, but in the case of audio or video recording
| devices i am _especially_ paranoid. If someone sells how
| often i use a toaster i 'm annoyed - if someone sells video
| or audio of me i'm livid.
| m463 wrote:
| don't give up.
| vorpalhex wrote:
| I almost bought an $80 pdf application (pdf expert) only to
| find out it phones home with my device details...
|
| And now that company won't be getting my $80. I'll use the
| open source alternatives, even if they aren't as nice to
| use.
|
| Use open source, write your own open source or just do
| without. You can't just accept the inevitable and bow into
| it - inevitability doesn't change morality.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Because it's essentially Amazon, ex Amazon engineers and they
| integrate with Alexa by default which likely means a nice
| side channel income.
| shostack wrote:
| How does Alexa integration open up revenue? Does Amazon pay
| companies to integrate?
| hourislate wrote:
| Been a customer for a few years. They're upfront with
| everything. From what I know I'm not the product (so far).
| Everything I ever purchased was an excellent value and met
| 99% of my expectations. My only gripe is there is no desktop
| software to manage all the devices. You should give them a
| try, the cameras are awesome.
| patentatt wrote:
| Honest question: what do you base that off of? I can't
| think of a way to prove the negative, that I'm not the
| product, that overcomes the assumption that the hardware
| prices are so low that they will have great incentive to
| monetize in other ways.
| chabes wrote:
| I got the feeling that the price was too good to not be
| something else as well.
|
| I might be mistaken, but it appears to me that they might
| have ways of monetizing user data.
|
| From the privacy statement:
|
| > We allow others to provide analytics services and serve
| advertisements for us across the web and in mobile
| applications. These entities may use cookies, web
| beacons, device identifiers and other technologies to
| collect information about your use of the Services and
| other websites and applications, including your IP
| address, web browser, mobile network information, pages
| viewed, time spent on pages or in apps, links clicked,
| and conversion information. This information may be used
| by Wyze and others to, among other things, analyze and
| track data, determine the popularity of certain content,
| deliver advertising and content targeted to your
| interests on our Services and other websites and online
| services, and better understand your online activity.
| hourislate wrote:
| Well I base it off the fact that how could the possibly
| monetize a video of some guy walking his dog or a vehicle
| going by. I can opt out of their marketing material and
| everything can be saved locally to an SD Card.
|
| In my opinion the hardware prices are cheaper because
| it's sourced out of China and the product is at the lower
| end but worth every penny. I use to source _widgets_ out
| of China that were amazing quality. I would have them
| delivered to my factory in Canada. The price of the
| finished product delivered to my factory door step was
| cheaper than the cost of raw materials in Canada. There
| were no duties involved since the HS Code of the item was
| duty free and China had Most Favored Nation Status.
|
| So that's probably how they do it. The Camera costs them
| a few of $$ delivered and they sell it for $20 +. The
| only draw back is that the Chinese copied the design and
| would be selling in their internal market or markets
| where Wyze wasn't in yet.
| dperfect wrote:
| This may have changed, but in the past, I believe they were
| essentially just rebranded Xiaomi cameras (possibly from other
| suppliers) with different firmware. I originally thought the
| Chinese products were clones of Wyze, but it appears Wyze is
| actually just using existing low-cost hardware from overseas.
| Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong though.
|
| FYI - for some camera models (Xiaomi or Wyze), you can flash
| them with this custom firmware[1], allowing for a lot more
| customization.
|
| [1] https://github.com/EliasKotlyar/Xiaomi-Dafang-Hacks
| knowaveragejoe wrote:
| Has anyone done a thorough security analysis of any of their
| devices? Do they phone home or otherwise open some sort of back
| door? I agree that it does seem too good to be true
| paxys wrote:
| Selling at a loss to build up their ecosystem I imagine, same
| as Amazon with all their devices.
| fullstop wrote:
| They could be hoping to be acquired by Amazon as well.
| electriclove wrote:
| This. The founders are all exAmazon and I think this is a
| likely exit strategy.
| megaunicorn123 wrote:
| "Wyze Labs, Inc ... are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its
| affiliates."
|
| I would like to believe there is good in the world, but other
| than Linux nothing has held it up.
| comfydragon wrote:
| Inspect Element shows that's just a formatting goof in the
| footer. Wyze is not part of Amazon (...yet...).
|
| _(c) 2020 Wyze Labs, Inc_
|
| _Amazon, Alexa, Echo Spot and all related logos are
| trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates._
|
| _Google, Inc., Google, Google Home, Google Home Mini, G
| logo, The Google Assistant built-in, and related marks and
| logos are trademarks of Google, Inc. All rights reserved._
| untog wrote:
| You've misread.
|
| > (c) 2020 Wyze Labs, Inc Amazon, Alexa, Echo Spot and all
| related logos are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its
| affiliates.
|
| The page is copyright Wyze Labs. Separately, those other
| terms are trademarks of Amazon.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| While Wyze has undoubtedly a relationship with Amazon that
| goes beyond them being just ex engineers the trade mark
| disclaimer isn't for Wyze Labs Inc itself which is privately
| owned but for Alexa and the rest of the Amazon products they
| integrate with.
| Shared404 wrote:
| > but other than Linux nothing has held it up.
|
| You could probably include the EFF, GNU Project, BSD's, and a
| couple others as well.
| abawany wrote:
| Quality can sometimes be a bit iffy (my motion sensor and door
| open sensors failed) and now the useful camera event alerts are
| behind a (small) monthly fee.
| fullstop wrote:
| You might just be seeing the markup of other products.
|
| Their products are cheap enough that if it misses a motion
| event you'll say "oh well, it's doing well for a $20 camera."
| xnx wrote:
| You were able to find sensors? When I've looked they've always
| been sold out for months.
| electriclove wrote:
| They are coming out with new sensors.
| samspenc wrote:
| I was only aware of their Wyze Cam (which I have a couple of)
| and I had no idea till I saw this post that they have other
| devices now, such as Plug, Bulb, Scale etc.
| wsinks wrote:
| Are they selling a bunch of activity data to people or
| something? $20 for a smart watch has me wanting to try this. I
| wonder if the catch is that they only work for about a year?
| woah wrote:
| There are a lot of cameras at that price range. I got one from
| a competitor (some router manufacturer, forgot which one).
| chrysoprace wrote:
| Really keen on Wyze's lineup of products, but unfortunately after
| countless requests from people, they still don't ship to
| Australia.[1]
|
| [1] https://forums.wyzecam.com/t/deliver-to-australia/3666
| jerlam wrote:
| Smartwatches have fallen so far from their peak.
|
| In 2015, Pebble had a watch that had:
|
| - an app store, third party apps, third party watch faces, and a
| developer ecosystem
|
| - always on screen that didn't require a button press or specific
| arm gesture, and worked in bright, normally lit conditions
|
| - physical buttons instead of tiny buttons on a tiny screen
| barely larger than the finger pressing it
|
| - week long battery life
|
| Pebble was crushed by Fitbit, which didn't have any third party
| support, and by Apple, which had miserable battery life and
| relied on the connected phone to do most of its work.
|
| Now Pebble is long gone, Fitbit bought the remnants of Pebble is
| being acquired by Google, Google itself doesn't seem to have any
| interest in WearOS, and Apple Watch almost has two-day battery
| life and app store has never lived up to expectations. We now
| have "smart watches" which basically combine basic phone
| notification API implementations, a package of often unreliable
| sensors, mostly-off touchscreens, and bundled "apps" which can
| only be used with the hugest social media sites.
| antidaily wrote:
| I backed the first Pebble. I think you're overselling how great
| things were as compared to now, where I can make calls from my
| wrist or use it as golf GPS. And it's not like smart watches
| are the only app ecosystem to become closed and shittier.
| m463 wrote:
| It also had an open ecosystem.
|
| You could create and compile your watch apps to your heart's
| delight without asking someone for permission.
| slezyr wrote:
| PineTime is the only watch that is cheap and can be
| programmable. However, it's software isn't mature enough for
| daily use.
|
| https://pine64.com/product/pinetime-dev-kit/?v=0446c16e2e66
| modeless wrote:
| Don't forget: 7.5mm thick (for the round version). There is
| _nothing_ on the market even close.
|
| I wore mine until last month when the battery gave out. If I
| could buy one with a new battery (not a replaced one as it
| compromises the waterproofing) I'd choose it over any other
| option available today.
| ce4 wrote:
| Look for devices supported by the gadgetbridge 3rd party app
| (found in android's f-droid store). I have an Amazfit Bip S
| lite. 45days battery, always on lcd. Custom notification
| filters by gadgetbridge. Great
|
| https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge
| VectorLock wrote:
| Man never heard of this Gadgetbridge thing. Thanks for
| bringing it up. The awful apps are the worst part about
| these kind of Chinesium devices.
| ce4 wrote:
| The first setup to get started can be a bit rough,
| especially with server based key fetch + pairing.
| Gadgetbridge's issue tracker will help if you get stuck.
| modeless wrote:
| I assure you, I have evaluated everything on the market.
| Amazfit devices are >1cm thick (even the ones that claim
| 9.2mm, it's a lie). They are also larger diameter than the
| Pebble Time Round, so overall more than twice as big and
| much less comfortable.
|
| The phone software is nowhere near as good, the watch UI is
| poorly designed, and the watch face/app selection is poor
| in comparison to Pebble. I haven't tried gadgetbridge yet
| but on newer Amazfit devices it requires some hacking to
| get it to work (extracting login tokens or encryption keys
| or something) and I expect that it will be fragile.
| ce4 wrote:
| I just measured the Bip S lite: 9.7mm height x 34.8 x
| 41.6mm rectangle (without lugs + crown).
| vanous wrote:
| It is fragile. But, the key can be fetched from their
| server. No root, no funky hacked app, judt one time
| effort. Bip is not perfect, but the translucent display
| and GPS, plus many weeks of life are great. You can even
| push it for BipOs and write your own apps.
|
| Disclosure: I help with Gadgetbridge :)
| ce4 wrote:
| I can confirm that vanous is helping users :)
|
| Hi vanous!
| ce4 wrote:
| Yep, the newer amazfit's server based key-pairing is
| nuts, but there's a solution and you only need to do it
| once until you hard reset your watch (hopefully never).
| The watch dials are rather ugly but functional. The built
| in dials are also much better battery-wise than custom
| faces
| will0 wrote:
| I know you said you don't want a replaced battery, but if
| you were interested in doing the (fairly easy) battery
| replacement yourself, there's a link to where you can
| purchase a battery on Aliexpress here:
|
| https://willow.systems/pebble/#hardware
| borgel wrote:
| I finally bit the bullet and replaced the battery in mine. It
| wasn't my favorite process, but it seems to have turned out
| fine. Used a hand rolled bead of Sugru [1] to re-seal it. Not
| sure I'll ever be able to try again, but at least now it
| works again.
|
| [1] https://sugru.com/
| bllguo wrote:
| seriously - it's been _years_, it should only be easier to get
| to pebble's level (if not surpass it)
|
| anecdotally, in my life I've seen maybe enough apple watches to
| count on one hand? and a few fitbits. That's it. A far cry from
| what I expected the future to be like, back when pebble was
| getting hype and when apple announced their offering. What is
| the problem with the market? is there really just no demand for
| smartwatches of any kind?
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| You can get most of the Pebble features you listed on the
| Amazfit Bip and Gadgetbridge.
|
| It's not perfect, but it's the closest thing to what the Pebble
| used to be.
|
| See this thread from below here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25269500
| Twirrim wrote:
| I like my Amazfit Bip, but the integration is no where near
| as smooth as Pebble was. I only stopped using my Pebble
| because I had the first gen screen corruption issues. By the
| time they were getting to be an issue, the writing was on the
| wall for them.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I miss my Pebble big time. Still nothing compares.
| delfinom wrote:
| It's sad Google is so incompetent with WearOS, I would kill to
| have a cheap smartwatch just to use Google Pay. Instead the
| only ones are overpriced and shit battery life.
| will0 wrote:
| Pebble may be long gone, but there are plenty of people still
| using them with 90% of the functionality still intact!
| colordrops wrote:
| Google acquiring fitbit? Nooooo, I've been in the process of
| de-googlification and fitbit has massive amounts of my health
| data from the last half year. Need to figure out how to nuke
| all of that.
| bibabaloo wrote:
| I don't agree with all their business practices, but if you're
| looking for an alternative, Garmin watches do all of that well
| these days. I'm quite happy with my Forerunner 735XT.
| emosenkis wrote:
| Any indication that these will be hackable like their cameras?
| What SoC are these based on?
| julesallen wrote:
| I've been using their products since their first cam came out
| (was skeptical but hey, $20-odd bucks was low risk).
|
| Now have multiple cams, bulbs, and so on. Getting the watch is a
| low dough no brainer.
|
| Solid stuff for not a lot of money.
| marcod wrote:
| $20 with Blood Oxy Meter is a good deal.
| shostack wrote:
| How accurate is it and who owns or has access to your data?
| grep_name wrote:
| Will this just run the same wearOS as other watches? It just says
| "compatible with popular apps", but the only thing I could see
| myself using a smartwatch for is xdrip, which is fairly niche
| vmception wrote:
| > * Wyze Watch is not a medical device, and it is not intended to
| be used for medical purposes.
|
| How do we change reality to get these dumbass disclaimers out the
| way for perfectly functioning devices?
|
| Get FDA certification faster? Change safe harbors on liability
| that dont require cover-your-ass text that contradicts the point
| of including certain functionality? Get FDA out of the consumer
| medical device gatekeeping whatsoever?
| altarius wrote:
| How do we know these are perfectly functioning devices? The
| average person wouldn't read studies and documentation or
| ascertain the quality - I barely can and check HN comments for
| many medical studies :) FDA approval is a very strong signal at
| least.
|
| I'd rather avoid the supplements situation where manufacturers
| can essentially claim almost anything and most of the
| population isn't aware that it's a free-for-all. Manufacturers
| can still claim some function but at least there's currently a
| disclaimer that makes average people question some claims.
|
| I don't really love the mix of deregulation and healthcare
| (even adjecent, see supplements).
| abawany wrote:
| I like this person's rather thorough reviews of device
| accuracy:
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChNWxrTlmh4IRSevon1X93g but
| you are right, the ambiguity is bothersome.
| svachalek wrote:
| Personally I like the idea of someone qualified spending the
| time to evaluate these and give it a stamp of approval. I just
| wish that led to something more like "we are being evaluated by
| XYZ agency, see this URL for approval status".
|
| Sure, it leaves an opening for egg on your face, but if you're
| serious about passing the test (and you shouldn't be selling
| medical devices if you're not) then you're going to pass
| eventually so show the confidence.
| thorwasdfasdf wrote:
| personally, i find the 9 day battery life to be pretty darn
| impressive in this day and age.
|
| i also like the heart rate monitor, great for runners.
| dmje wrote:
| I see no way anyone could make this bit of hardware this cheaply
| without some pretty nasty exploitation going on somewhere up the
| chain. Count me out.
| microtherion wrote:
| You might be surprised at how human ingenuity sometimes finds a
| way to make expensive hardware using just as much
| exploitation...
| cambalache wrote:
| As if by buying the 1000+ USD Apple phone you are not
| supporting the same system. Newsflash, there is no ethical tech
| shopping, there will always be someone exploited along the
| line.
| mrtksn wrote:
| Looks nice but a bit too similar to Apple Watch maybe?
| neolog wrote:
| Are there any developer-friendly hackable smartwatches?
| nfriedly wrote:
| Lillygo makes a couple of interesting options built around the
| ESP32:
|
| T-Watch-2020 - $26 -
| http://www.lilygo.cn/prod_view.aspx?TypeId=50053&Id=1290&FId...
|
| T-Wristband - $18 -
| http://www.lilygo.cn/claprod_view.aspx?TypeId=21&Id=1282&FId...
| mfashby wrote:
| Pinetime maybe https://www.pine64.org/pinetime/
|
| Pebbles were very hackable, but you can't buy new ones as other
| threads have pointed out.
| krazykringle wrote:
| Does it run a Linux? Will I be able to ssh to it?
| borgel wrote:
| With 512KB RAM and 16MB flash[1] I assume it's a
| microcontroller and doesn't run Linux.
|
| [1] https://wyze.com/wyze-watch.html#pageDetails
| copperx wrote:
| Slightly off topic, but are there microcontrollers that run
| Linux?
| xuhu wrote:
| Would it matter, as long as you can build and flash it yourself
| ?
| devsatish wrote:
| Been a Wyze customer for couple of years now. Bought many of
| their cameras from their store and Home Depot. The cameras are
| real good and much much cheaper than other big brands (Ring/Nest
| etc). It seems they are basically building a Xiaomi kinda of
| brand in the US (Xiaomi is extremely popular in countries like
| India where they have huge market base with well styled products
| similar to Apple line).
| vineyardmike wrote:
| Considering they often re-brand Xiaomi hardware, i wouldn't say
| they're building "a Xiaomi kinda of brand" as much as "re-
| building Xiaomi's brand"
| yftsui wrote:
| I have multiple Wyze cams and recently got hit with a big
| surprise, if Wyze cam lost power suddenly, the past 4 mins
| event footage is NOT stored on the local SD card, and the
| actual event is not stored on the cloud as well. Wyze still has
| a long way to go for resiliency comparing with Ring or Nest.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I tried to test this and discovered that my Wyze Cam thinks
| there isn't even an SD card installed (there is). In the
| cloud, it showed there was an event just before it was
| unplugged, but it won't let me download the footage. I would
| be pretty upset if I discovered these issues when I was
| trying to get footage from a break-in or other important
| event.
| whalesalad wrote:
| The old adage 'you get what you pay for' comes to mind here.
| smattiso wrote:
| I am trying to build something similar but I don't know how to
| get a non-functioning physical prototype built initially. What's
| the simplest way to get these type of aluminum cases, bands, etc?
| MobiusHorizons wrote:
| How about buy a cheap Chinese smartwatch and reuse the case? If
| that works for you, it is very likely you could discover who
| manufactures it, and work with them to build yours.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Short of paying many thousands of dollars in prototype
| engineering fees, you either buy an existing device and strip
| out the guts, or one of these for $20 https://serpac.com/bw-
| series.aspx
| free2OSS wrote:
| Aluminum fabrication?
| kissgyorgy wrote:
| If you want a "smart enough" watch and you are mainly care for
| your health, I highly recommend any of the watches from Withings:
| https://www.withings.com/hu/en/
|
| They are a really awesome company, not trying to sell you some
| shit and making money, but honestly wanting to develop good
| products to improve your life! Very useful features for health
| monitoring and they don't cost as much. Plus the watches looks
| super cool!
| filoleg wrote:
| Can fully back you up on this. Also, as a sidenote, their scale
| devices are awesome as well, and the watch line you linked used
| to be Nokia-branded (back when they owned Withings, before they
| spun out to be independent again).
| Baeocystin wrote:
| I looked at all the high-end smart watches, decided they pretty
| much all sucked, and went with Withing's Steel HR Sport.
|
| I love it- Like you said, it's a smart-enough watch. I get text
| notifications on the small screen, which is surprisingly
| useful, and it does things like step tracking, heart rate,
| sleep tracking, etc. But it also has a multi-week battery life,
| and looks like, and is sized like, a normal watch. Highly
| recommended.
| eecks wrote:
| Those watches are nearly 300 euro..
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Is the price difference that great? I paid ~$150 for mine a
| few months ago, and checking Amazon here in the US, they're
| still going for about that.
| dr_j_ wrote:
| As a runner, this is relatively useless without a GPS. Include
| that and sign me up in a heartbeat.
| fullstop wrote:
| Look into the Amazfit Bip. A bit more than $20, but cheap and
| the battery lasts ~40 days. If you're using GPS a lot it will
| be less than 40.
|
| Even so, battery life is measured in weeks, not days.
| asadlionpk wrote:
| +1. Highly recommend Amazfit Bip! The battery life is so long
| that I forget where I keep my charging cable.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| I'm still rocking my Bip even though I don't use most of the
| _smart_ features(heart-rate sensor doesn 't seem very
| accurate). I just wear it as a regular watch because it looks
| good, it's slim and discrete, visible in the sun, has
| customizable watchfaces and shows me notifications from my
| phone(via Gadgetbridge, no cloud account BS). That's all I
| need, I don't want fancy interactive smartphone features on
| my watch to provide an endless source of distractions for the
| whole day at an easier reach.
|
| Oh, and the battery lasts forever and because of the low
| pricetag I won't cry if I break it or scratch it during
| sports or household chores.
|
| I feel like the Bip is the unofficial successor to the
| beloved Pebble.
| interestica wrote:
| My BIP fell apart (the screen popped off). Was relatively
| easy to re-glue. It's a common issue.
|
| But I was most fascinated to see the hardware inside. It's
| crazy how miniature it is when the actual body/face of the
| watch is detached.
|
| I actually stopped wearing it simply because I found even
| the basic notifications I had set were affecting my brain
| -- an issue with any smartwatch, not just the BIP.
|
| One cool hack I worked out was combining MacroDroid + BIP
| to trigger any phone action (Intent). So, you can use the
| BIP as a remote trigger for your camera, to start/stop
| music, send an SMS, etc. I added a tutorial to Reddit a
| while back but can find it if you're interested.
| CWuestefeld wrote:
| _I feel like the Bip is the unofficial successor to the
| beloved Pebble._
|
| That's exactly my story.
| CWuestefeld wrote:
| I've got a Bip. Using the GPS to track running or hiking does
| use a lot of power. I need to recharge about every 2 weeks,
| tracking a 1-hour walk every day.
|
| I do recommend it. Another differentiating factor is the
| display. The Wyze product doesn't indicate the display tech,
| but the Amazfit using e-Ink, so it's always on and has good
| visibility even in bright light, something that competitors
| like Apple (with its minuscule battery life and disappearing
| display) can't claim.
| sorenjan wrote:
| Can you get your data to other apps like Strava, or do you
| have to use Amazefit's app?
| CWuestefeld wrote:
| The factory software supports Google Fit. I think various
| third-party apps, like "Notify for Amazfit" (which I use
| and recommend) can also send the data over to Strava.
| fullstop wrote:
| Just one point of clarification, the Amazfit Bip does not
| use e-ink. It's a transreflective LCD screen, kind of like
| the old Game Boy Advance screens. It's easier to see in
| bright sunlight, and always on.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Another clarification, the display of the Bip(and Pebble,
| Garmin and others) is not a transreflective type but a
| _SHARP Memory LCD_ where pixels only need power to change
| their state but need almost no power keeping their
| current state, like e-ink, but better, so it looks like
| transreflective in the sunlight.
|
| The transreflective LCD type of the Gameboy would
| absolutely nuke your battery life as it needs to be
| actively refreshed even on stationary images.
|
| I'm deeply saddened this type of display is not more
| popular among wearables vs OLED. Who doesn't want 30 day+
| battery life and always-on sunlight visibility?
| ce4 wrote:
| The Bip S is great (or the Bip S lite without gps if you
| don't need it). It has all the necessary basics (gps, step
| counter, always on color display, heart rate sensor,
| notifications, weather forecast, time, alarms) and real 40-45
| days between battery charging. I couldn't stand charging each
| day or a few times per week.
|
| Edit: and it can be operated in a real un"cloud"ed mode if
| you use the 3rd party gadgetbridge app (born of pebble user
| needs and extended to support more watches since). That was
| the dealmaker for me.
| breck wrote:
| Apple was smart not to compete on the low-end for watches.
|
| Median income in the USA is $68,703.
|
| Why would someone spend 1/25 of 1 percent of their income on
| something that they wear 100% of the time? That makes no sense.
|
| I shell out $200-$300 each year for the latest FitBit (Apple
| Watch is promising, but that battery life :(. The sleep tracking
| is gold).
| schwartzworld wrote:
| > I shell out $200-$300 each year for the latest FitBit
|
| Why would you update your Fitbit that often? Is it really that
| much of a difference from year to year?
| breck wrote:
| Sometimes I'll go 2 years without upgrading. Certainly the
| difference every 2 years is enough to warrant it. It seems
| there's a new sensor for measuring a new dimension at least
| every 2 years. But I also put these things through the
| wringer (lots of physical activity, including salt water
| ocean adventures).
|
| I wear them 24/7, so it's literally the thing I use most in
| the world.
| BostonEnginerd wrote:
| We had a terrible experience with Fitbit. My wife's Versa
| delaminated just out of warranty. Screen and guts all fell out.
| Fitbit basically shrugged their shoulders and said too bad.
|
| My experience with them years ago when they first launched was
| really positive. Any issues with a device, and another one was
| in the mail.
| qppo wrote:
| Plus they managed to run the gamut of security failures
| including RCE on users home computers.
| breck wrote:
| Yeah I've had a number break on me (not the versa, but ionics
| and charges) and they've usually replaced them (but not
| always).
|
| I consider it still "early adopter" territory and am happy to
| put up with some problems as they blaze a trail to a
| healthier world via massively increasing the amount of health
| data available.
| bigtones wrote:
| That $68,703 figure is the median HOUSEHOLD income that
| encompasses more than one bread winner on average.
| breck wrote:
| That's a clear nit. I'll just give you that point and say
| 2/25 of 1%, and the argument is exactly the same.
| robocat wrote:
| Here's the income distribution per household from the last
| census:
|
| https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizat...
|
| There are a lot of people that can't spend $200 on a watch, but
| can spend $20.
| breck wrote:
| That's a good point.
|
| U.S. per capita healthcare spending is $11,172. If the U.S.
| gave everyone a $200 a year tax credit to spend on a smart
| health watch, we'd probably save $2,000 a year per capita and
| get a 10x ROI.
| robocat wrote:
| Most healthcare costs are at the end of our life, and we
| all die and often spend all we have, so the costs are
| fairly invariant i.e. you can never "save" $2k.
|
| The ROI for better health is very odd to measure.
|
| If you use dollars (an an economy) then the best ROI is to
| spend nothing once someone is of no economic benefit (i.e.
| the vast majority of healthcare spending is on the elderly
| and provides no dollar benefit to society, so economically
| most healthcare spending should be drastically cut).
|
| You could also look at an integral of quality of life over
| time. However "past me" is really bad at caring about
| "future me", and "current me" doesn't care at all about
| optimising for "past me".
|
| Most people seem happy to argue that the amount that
| society should spend on them (or their loved ones) for
| health services is infinite (you can't put a price on
| life), and the amount they should spend on the health
| services for others should be zero (those scabs should have
| made better life choices!)
|
| Good luck trying to make sense out of spending $20 to save
| $2000!
| [deleted]
| securingsincity wrote:
| How much of that income is spent on healthcare, food, and
| housing? 40% americans can't afford an unexpected $400 bill [0]
| https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-
| cover-400-em....
| breck wrote:
| $200 spent on a FitBit will save thousands on annual
| healthcare bills.
| ghaff wrote:
| Someone using a FitBit as part of shifting to a healthier
| lifestyle may result in better health outcomes (and
| presumably lower costs) but there's no " _will_ save
| thousands on annual healthcare bills " about it. Certainly
| just wearing a FitBit has zero effect on health if you
| don't do anything based on the collected data.
| breck wrote:
| > Certainly just wearing a FitBit has zero effect on
| health if you don't do anything based on the collected
| data.
|
| Surprisingly, even this I disagree with. Simply buying
| one nudges the healthcare world to a more data driven
| place, and simply wearing one provides data and feedback
| to the ecosystem that will have a positive value.
|
| That being said, yeah you should look at the data if you
| personally want to benefit.
| abawany wrote:
| I attribute my Garmin Vivoactive HR to pushing me from
| chronic sitting to being reasonably active and its heart-
| rate monitoring alerts for letting me know when something
| was off. I agree with you that spending money to get a
| good device is worth it, especially since my Garmin has
| lasted me 4 years without issues.
| calebegg wrote:
| [citation needed]
| joshuamarksmith wrote:
| There's entire companies built around this data. In fact,
| one of my former employees partnered with one and paid
| for my FitBit. In the aggregate, FitBit purchases will
| drive down the probability of healthcare claims, saving
| the company money overall.
| breck wrote:
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=fitbit
|
| Betting against this trend would be like betting against
| toothbrushes and floss.
| foolmeonce wrote:
| How swatch got started may be able to answer your question.
| Similarly, 13 year olds don't have a thousands in disposable
| income but are often the primary demographic to make a fortune
| selling $10 items. Someone who can afford crap is useless if
| they can recognize it.
| jariel wrote:
| Except nobody actually thinks this way, so there's that.
|
| $300-400 is a high ticket item, point blank.
|
| Aside from Apple, the world is owned by entities that compete
| mostly on price.
| breck wrote:
| > Except nobody actually thinks this way, so there's that.
|
| I won't argue with that, especially in 2020 :).
| neilparikh wrote:
| The problem is, aiming to create a "high-end" product up front
| ends up shaping the product design.
|
| Now that it is aimed at the high end, Apple needs to include
| lots of features, a nice display etc. Lots fancy features means
| they need to use a powerful processor, which along with the
| nice display leads to a lot of power draw. This is why they
| have a small battery life, as you mention, and didn't even have
| an always on display until S5. Neither of these are
| technological constraints, since the Pebble had 7 day battery
| life with an always on display from the first version.
|
| Now, the Apple Watch has sold well, so maybe it's a fine
| tradeoff to make. But I think this "high-end" constraint has
| definitely shaped the product (and in a way I think is worse
| when viewed as a watch first).
| bhupy wrote:
| > Median income in the USA is $68,703.
|
| Be that as it may, there's absolutely a non-trivial amount of
| revenue available at the low end of the market. Apple
| historically never participates in that market, but that's an
| opportunity for other hardware providers.
| bluGill wrote:
| In fact if you get "good enough" at the low end there is more
| money there than up top. Sure $200 isn't much compared to me
| income, but it is still more than an impulse buy. If you can
| get the $20 market it becomes an impulse buy for a lot more
| people. If you are good enough they compare with their
| friends and the friends also buy - those who would never
| spend $200 on an impulse buy, and those who already have and
| are looking to replace theirs.
| treesknees wrote:
| The low price of $20 actually slows my impulse to buy it.
| Sure, it's not a lot of money, but how reliable or usable
| can it be for that price? It makes me think of a cheap
| knock-off device I'd find at a TJ Maxx store on clearance.
| What makes it so cheap even compared to a Fitbit?
| ghaff wrote:
| Yeah, I have an Apple Watch but I usually just wear a $30
| Timex because I don't need to worry about charging. When the
| band and/or battery give out after a few years I replace it
| with another of the same model.
|
| I buy lots of cheap things even though there are "better"
| versions available for more money.
| dharmab wrote:
| I'm so used to the fuggeaboutit reliability of my digital
| and automatic watches that the battery life of the Apple
| Watch is absolutely appalling.
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| Here's one perspective: about five years ago I stopped buying
| expensive phones. Now I buy economy Motorolas, and I've never
| looked back. The performance is somewhat worse than a flagship
| phone, but I damage my phones pretty frequently and I'm so much
| less worried about it when the replacement cost is $200 rather
| than $900.
|
| Price has been a main barrier to my wearing a smart watch as my
| expectation is that something on my wrist will get damaged even
| more often - I do a lot of mechanical work. Certainly my $15
| Casio is pretty scratched up. At the $20 price point, though, I
| might give this a try.
| breck wrote:
| It's a reasonable perspective, and one a lot of my friends
| share. I guess I look at value/cost. I drive a $2,000 car and
| use a $1,000 phone because I get a lot of value for the extra
| $500 in the phone, but wouldn't get more value out of having
| a nicer car. Like you, I also find it nice to worry less
| about the car because the replacement cost is low.
|
| But I view the value of smart watches in the $100,000+s if
| not $1M+s. How much is your health worth? How much is it
| worth to passively keep an eye on your heart rate, and stress
| levels, and oxygen levels, and sleep levels? Granted, I still
| think it is very early for smart watches, and the value we
| are getting now is ~1% of the value we will be getting from
| them in 5-10 years (if they aren't replaced by a "smart
| tooth" or "smart necklace" etc). But I think at this point
| the value is definitely there and easily worth 10x+ the cost.
|
| Making a single actionable decision based on data received
| from a wearable could have a life changing impact.
|
| And again, speaking in probabilities here, and it depends if
| you look at the data and adjust your life based on it, but I
| think expected value of these is huge, and probably the best
| single health measure anyone can take.
|
| I would say try the cheap one, and think about upgrading if
| you like it.
| antasvara wrote:
| I think your last line is key to why a low price is a good
| idea. As someone who did a lot of research before buying my
| first smartwatch, I found it difficult to actually estimate
| how much benefit I would get from owning a smartwatch. What
| this essentially does is lower the barrier of entry. Now, a
| prospective buyer doesn't have to see much benefit to take
| a chance on buying the product.
| breck wrote:
| Yes, and I realize that maybe my comment about Wyze is
| harsh----I think it is a FANTASTIC thing that more
| companies are making these things (and getting the price
| down!). I just think from a business point of view the
| smart watch business is all about the top end, because
| the real estate is __so valuable __, literally on top of
| someone 24 /7, that the focus should be on how much value
| can you deliver to that person, and target a 1% of their
| income price point (hopefully delivering a much greater
| benefit than 1%). But absolutely, this is an awesome
| development, to have a $20 smart watch, and I agree if
| Wyze is getting more people wearing these things, that
| will be a huge win for the world.
| throwaway201103 wrote:
| > How much is it worth to passively keep an eye on your
| heart rate, and stress levels, and oxygen levels, and sleep
| levels
|
| For me, zero? Or close to it. I can't imagine obsessing
| about this stuff. I think it would cause me more stress
| than it would help. That's to say nothing about the privacy
| issues.
| driverdan wrote:
| > Why would someone spend 1/25 of 1 percent of their income on
| something that they wear 100% of the time? That makes no sense.
|
| If the product fulfills their needs why would they waste an
| extra $180 on a different product?
| mrbonner wrote:
| "9 days battery life". It is Okay and better than the abominable
| life of a single day of the Apple Watch. But, it is still pale in
| compare to the 14 days of the Garmin Instinct. I put the Apple
| Watch 3 away to have the Garmin Instinct. It doesn't have all
| bells and whistles comparing to the Apple Watch: no apps, no
| payments, no direct texting input (at least for my iPhone) but I
| can wear it while I sleep and charge once every 9 days (I use the
| GPS quite often and it eats up battery). The GPS in my opinion is
| superior to the Apple Watch. It's pretty rough, too. I have the
| regular Instinct but you can opt in to buy the Military one with
| tougher case and HALO jumping alert.
|
| After using it for a year, I kind of understand why pilots often
| use Garmin watches:
|
| https://gigazine.net/gsc_news/en/20191025-garmin-smart-watch...
| abawany wrote:
| Newer Garmins seem to have added some of the bells and whistles
| i.e. Garmin Pay and the Connect Store (where you can find
| software written by the inimitable Antirez
| (https://github.com/antirez/iqmeteo) ); even my 4+ year old
| Vivoactive HR supports the Connect store.
| kencausey wrote:
| I wonder if this is roughly similar to the Sylvania branded smart
| watch that Ben Heckendorn recently evaluated and disassembled:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-Me4eP8c2Q
| EvanAnderson wrote:
| Was thinking that too. I saw that MediaTek SOC in the Ben Heck
| teardown and started wondering about whether it was running
| Linux.
| umeshunni wrote:
| How is Wyze churning out so many new hardware devices so rapidly?
|
| I hadn't heard of them till this year when I saw their camera on
| sale, but now they have a full suite of hardware products with
| ~50 employees.
|
| Are they essentially rebranding some Chinese manufacturer?
| untog wrote:
| When it comes to their webcam: absolutely yes. You can get the
| exact camera they sell on Alibaba. That said, the software on
| the Alibaba versions is awful. I think their business model
| makes sense here: buy commodity hardware, make your own,
| better, software.
|
| (though to be honest their iOS app isn't great. But still)
| delfinom wrote:
| This watch is potentially a rebranded Xiaomi Redmi Watch, with
| minor modification to the sensor plate maybe.
|
| https://fdn2.gsmarena.com/vv/pics/xiaomi/xiaomi-redmi-watch-...
|
| Otherwise there other very similar looking watches in the
| Chinese market as well.
| jnurmine wrote:
| Interesting, but they ship only to the US, which is a deal
| breaker for me. Would've ordered.
| RantyDave wrote:
| Gah! Dammit.
| ljf wrote:
| Similar here. I hadn't heard of them before but took a look at
| their site and am impressed by the range. If they shopped to
| the UK I'd be buying a few bits for sure.
|
| Similar prices to xiaomi etc but their apps look good. (though
| the xiaomi apps are pretty good too)
| tssva wrote:
| In some cases their hardware is xiaomi hardware. Their model
| is to utilize existing low cost hardware but run their own
| custom firmware on it. This is how they have grown their
| product range so quickly.
| tcbawo wrote:
| Can anyone comment on the current state of the art for the sleep
| tracking feature of this or other smart watches? I have a Garmin
| Vivosmart HR that is close to end of life. I'm looking for
| something light with >7 day battery life, vibrating alarm clock,
| and decent sleep tracking.
| abawany wrote:
| I am a Vivoactive HR user and will be buying the Vivoactive 4
| soon. The always on display is indispensable, as is the battery
| life and SpO2 monitoring; Garmin is gold. I've tried Fitbit,
| Vivosmart 4, and AW4 but the Garmin is what I feel makes the
| best tradeoffs between functionality, usability, and quality
| plus they have great customer service. Edit0: fixed model names
| - darn Garmin with its meaningless model names.
| bentcorner wrote:
| I have a Vivosmart HR as well but my wife got me a Fitbit Versa
| last year and it's a give-and-take.
|
| The battery life is worse but the color screen is really nice
| and the watch can do more (most notably have multiple alarms
| set from the watch). Vibration motor is better on the Fitbit.
|
| Sleep tracking is slightly better on the fitbit (re. graphs and
| data). Accuracy seems better but I'm no expert (I've gotten
| false positives where the Garmin thinks I'm sleeping if I'm
| sitting at my computer not moving much, Fitbit has tracked naps
| which is impressive).
|
| I kind of liked the Garmin app more than the Fitbit one. The
| fitbit app can be confusing to navigate and it's irritating
| that they try to upsell you on a subscription. The garmin app
| is more spartan but it's easier to see your data. I think it
| might be easier to extract your data from garmin as well.
|
| Syncing both watches to your phone is equally painful.
|
| I don't know of anything new that has a long battery life like
| the Vivosmart HR. Garmin claims equally long battery life on
| their newer devices but I'm skeptical.
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