[HN Gopher] Ramstein Air Base in Germany Experiences Potential I...
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Ramstein Air Base in Germany Experiences Potential Incoming Missile
Scare
Author : SEJeff
Score : 59 points
Date : 2020-12-13 19:43 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| ExcavateGrandMa wrote:
| Just before charlie hebdo attack (in france) by terrorists...
|
| some ppl told that a rescue test had been performed just before
| attack...
|
| It smell the brown out... :D
| ulzeraj wrote:
| I heard Russian missiles in Kaliningrad can reach any place in
| Poland and Lithuania. I wonder how did they managed to keep that
| piece of land surrounded by ex-soviet republics that are
| basically not very fond of Russia to say the least.
| est31 wrote:
| Kaliningrad's original population was German. After WW 2 the
| red army displaced them, and Stalin settled ethnic Russians in
| the city. So unlike the areas around it, it's truly made up of
| Russians.
| baybal2 wrote:
| Very easy, Baltic republics were in no way capable of waging
| war right after the independence, let alone get out with any
| hope of territorial gains.
|
| And historically, USSR always been placing military members
| from ethnic minorities into weakest, and most "cannon-fodderry"
| military units, predominantly foot infantry, and motorised.
|
| Even ethnic Russians from more far away places were likely
| never to see any advanced military hardware.
| ulzeraj wrote:
| Thanks. That was an honest question. No idea why I got
| downvoted multiple times.
| jacquesm wrote:
| Because they likely would have pulled a 'Ukraine' on Lithuania
| if it came to that.
| ulzeraj wrote:
| Well the fact that Kaliningrad is part of the Russian
| federations means that they did pulled an Ukraine on Poland
| and/or Lithuania.
|
| I'm not an expert and by any means I'm giving opinions here
| but I thought Crimea, South Ossetia and Abkhazia were
| territories were Russia at least has an historical or
| cultural excuse to claim. Again, not that I agree on those
| claims. On the other hand Kaliningrad was never part of
| Russia. It belonged to Poland and then to Germany. It was
| annexed by the Soviet Union in 1945.
|
| I guess the reason Kaliningrad exists is that Poland and the
| Baltiks were in no means to fight for territory and Germany
| doesn't care.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| It was directly annexed into Russia during the war when the
| various states didn't exist in a meaningful way, and was
| ethnically cleansed.
|
| The other territories vary... iirc Crimea was subject to a
| treaty in the 90s, etc. End of The day the relative power
| imbalances and international interest tend to rule the day.
| cnorthwood wrote:
| although Lithuania is both in the EU and NATO which would
| make it a very different proposition
| jacquesm wrote:
| It is now, but it wasn't always so.
| Trombone12 wrote:
| US defence planners: "Attacking with all nukes as soon as we get
| a warning of an enemy launch is the only rational way to use
| these weapons"
|
| US missileers: "I'ma wait a bit to see if maybe it's just Joyce
| that forgot to update the spreadsheet today before destroying the
| world"
| littlestymaar wrote:
| Fortunately this sort of common sense was shared by Russian
| soldiers too:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alar...
| vbezhenar wrote:
| There are rumours about automatic Russian system Dead Hand
| which is supposed to launch hidden nuclear missiles
| automatically if everything is lost. It's horrifying to think
| about bugs in that system.
| pampa wrote:
| It is probably airgapped, running on vacuum tubes and
| sprayed with DEET as part of regular maintanance.
| Fnoord wrote:
| Cool, now I figured where Dune 2's Death Hand [1] got its
| inspiration from.
|
| [1] https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Death_Hand
| sterlind wrote:
| From what we know, supposedly Dead Hand is usually switched
| off except in times of crisis, and it has humans in the
| loop that turn the launch keys, along with repeated
| attempts to contact the Kremlin.
|
| In my mind it makes things safer because there's less
| pressure to launch a counterattack before any missiles
| actually hit - revenge will be had.
| phelm wrote:
| perhaps someone let off 99 red balloons
| Cu3PO42 wrote:
| I live in Kaiserslautern, which is right next to Ramstein Air
| Base. I just want to say I find it somewhat strange--unsettling
| even--that I hear about this for the first time from an article I
| happened to find on HN, but not the German national alert app,
| local news or even social media.
| azalemeth wrote:
| I wonder if that means, that, well, _the system works_. There
| _wasn 't_ an incoming missile strike: part of the early-alert
| system sounded and another part -- a much more _human_ part --
| interrogated the data further and decided to _not_ declare a
| loud alarm that could have potentially severe consequences.
| And, well, no missile strike came.
| Trombone12 wrote:
| No, the article recounts the base sending out a live warning
| to base personnel.
|
| If you've sent an alert to the soldiers on the base, you've
| decided the warning is genuine, so the conclusion must be
| that they don't inform the surrounding areas as soon as
| they've accepted a warning as accurate.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| > No, the article recounts the base sending out a live
| warning to base personnel.
|
| More precisely, it said "After the strike never
| materialized, the sprawling installation's command post put
| out a notice stating that "the missile launch was then
| assessed to be part of a training exercise" and wasn't
| deemed a threat to the base"
|
| > If you've sent an alert to the soldiers on the base,
| you've decided the warning is genuine
|
| Or that you are checking. It may be a false alarm, in which
| case you will at least get a test of your readiness drills,
| which may find bugs in the process. Sometimes better to
| start getting ready while there is still time, and then
| stand down. Rather than wait until it is too late.
| Trombone12 wrote:
| Look, you got to read the whole thing, and don't ignore
| the bit that says: "The Command Post followed proper
| procedure and _provided timely and accurate notifications
| to personnel_ in the Kaiserslautern Military Community "
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| I don't think it's clear in the article if the initial
| alert was sent out manually or by an automated system. The
| first mention of it sounds manual, but then later it sounds
| like it may have been automated, since they're trying to
| move the blame down one level to whoever initiated the
| training exercise that caused the alert.
| Cu3PO42 wrote:
| I don't think the training exercise refers to one
| executed by the US (or its allies).
| Voloskaya wrote:
| > but not the German national alert app
|
| You are in a way complaining about not getting a false
| positive. Surely, if you had received an alert when nothing
| happened, you would take the next alert less seriously.
| jacquesm wrote:
| America under Trump is seen as weak by its adversaries, it should
| come as no surprise that the last days of the Trump
| administration will see a lot of saber rattling. Let's hope it
| stays at that level.
| hourislate wrote:
| Ummm...The USA has the most powerful military in the world and
| a budget that is larger than the next 10 largest spending
| countries put together.
|
| They have also participated in 20 years of war testing,
| training, and honing skills.
|
| I mean he wanted to nuke Iran but the establishment wouldn't
| let him. Is that what you consider weak?
| pengaru wrote:
| > I mean he wanted to nuke Iran but the establishment
| wouldn't let him. Is that what you consider weak?
|
| They're talking about _perception_ of weakness, and frankly
| what you 're describing there would be evidence of his being
| weak if "the establishment" blocked him.
|
| Not that I'm agreeing with what any of what either of you are
| saying here.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| What's the national interest? Weakness is the fact that a
| moron like Trump became POTUS by some accident of history,
| and that he may have wanted to attack a country with nuclear
| weapons because he heard some lunatic talk about it on TV.
|
| Military planners and diplomats are ultimately amoral. But
| the realpolitik of the devastation of Iran is a shift in the
| balance of power that doesn't benefit the national interest,
| or creates bigger problems.
|
| Weakness is the 101 other cuts that impacted US standing.
| Everything from the insanity of Brexit and failure to
| exploit, to the betrayal of US allies in Iraq and Syria, to
| the rise of a dangerous regime in Turkey, to damaged
| relations with Canada and destruction of the power of the US
| passport to the epic, historic incompetence of the COVID
| pandemic and impending depression.
| RobRivera wrote:
| [Citation needed]
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| hikerclimber wrote:
| nice!
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(page generated 2020-12-13 23:00 UTC)