[HN Gopher] Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 249 points
       Date   : 2021-01-09 09:46 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (spacecraft.ssl.umd.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (spacecraft.ssl.umd.edu)
        
       | makach wrote:
       | "41. There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow,
       | there's always enough time to do it over."
       | 
       | There are quite a lot of items on this list that applies to any
       | kind of project management, software development.
       | 
       | This is too close to home, will enjoy responsibly.
        
         | okl wrote:
         | In my experience, the opposite is often the case -- The
         | argument: "We can't start over because we don't have enough
         | time left" grows in strength as the project approaches the
         | deadline and is used to justify shoddy work. (You paint
         | yourself into a corner.)
         | 
         | I guess one aspect why "agile" stuff is effective, is that the
         | "last day" (on which it becomes surprisingly easy to make all
         | the decisions that couldn't be made until now) happens multiple
         | times and earlier in the project.
        
           | Ottolay wrote:
           | To me this is more of a NASA thing. If a program ends up
           | going over budget too much it gets cancelled. But the need is
           | still there, so new program is often started up with a
           | similar set of requirements. This problem is endemic across
           | government aerospace programs.
        
             | valuearb wrote:
             | NASA projects don't get canceled for being over budget or
             | late, they get canceled for being championed by a different
             | administration.
             | 
             | Sources: - SLS - Orion - James Webb Telescope -
             | constellation/Ares V project
        
           | lambda_obrien wrote:
           | It took 24 months of effort to get a particular system to
           | barely run every hour by some contractors. After 3 weeks, I
           | rewrote most of it and still have a month left, but it runs
           | in 5 seconds. I'm having trouble right now convincing my boss
           | it's better to work on the 5 second version even if he spent
           | hundreds of thousands of dollars on the 1 hour version. It's
           | the most annoying sunk cost ever.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | I took him as being sarcastic when saying there was always
           | time to do it over. He's ironically stating the bad logic
           | that people use to justify introducing new technical debt.
           | 
           | At least, that's what I assume, since I've heard this
           | sentiment expressed in the much clearer phrasing "If you
           | haven't got the time to do it right, when will you find the
           | time to do it over?".
           | 
           | That's apparently the title of a popular book by a management
           | consultant named John Wooden, but I'm not sure of the
           | provenance of the quote.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | larrydag wrote:
         | From Elon Musk "failure is an option". My take, if you aren't
         | failing then you aren't learning.
        
           | roughly wrote:
           | Failure is an option right up until you're doing 85 on a
           | crowded highway with passengers in the car.
        
           | ErikVandeWater wrote:
           | Depends what kind of payload you have on your rocket. People
           | or a billion-plus dollars of equipment? Or is it just a test
           | rocket to see if it can land itself?
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _People or a billion-plus dollars of equipment?_
             | 
             | Requiring no risk of failure for people is a large part of
             | why we don't launch astronauts much.
             | 
             | Space is risky. Setting the expectation that astronauts can
             | never be lost, as opposed to that they are on an exciting
             | frontier that has its dangers, is out of line with
             | astronauts' own risk preferences. This has been a failure
             | of expectations setting by NASA.
        
               | ErikVandeWater wrote:
               | I'm just saying it would be blase to say that "risk is
               | always an option" in regards to astronaut lives or
               | billions of dollars of equipment.
        
               | scrollaway wrote:
               | I'm sure it's not just for the sake of the astronauts
               | though. Losing an astronaut is losing a massive
               | investment and years of training.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Losing an astronaut is losing a massive investment and
               | years of training_
               | 
               | Practically grounding astronauts for three decades is not
               | much better.
        
               | irowe wrote:
               | Which 3 decades were astronauts practically grounded?
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | Expanding: it should be known when failure is tolerated.
           | Situations where it isn't ( _e.g._ maiden flight with
           | astronauts) should follow ones where it is.
           | 
           | Being the one learning through failure in an organisation not
           | tolerating it isn't fun.
        
             | coldtea wrote:
             | When the final outcome is important/worth it, failure is
             | tolerated everywhere.
             | 
             | Including "maiden flight with astronauts".
             | 
             | Several test pilots, and astronauts died and we still went
             | to air/space.
        
       | ShroudedNight wrote:
       | This is a perennially satisfying work. It appears to originally
       | be from 2003 given the previous time the submission got traction:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25698990
        
         | GlenTheMachine wrote:
         | I was Akin's grad student (I'm Henshaw, of Henshaw's Law). The
         | Laws go back to the late 1980s, at least.
        
           | aweiland wrote:
           | Your name is familiar. Were you there in the 99-02 time
           | frame? I was an undergrad employee then working on SCAMP and
           | later NBV2/RTSX. I helped design and build the big crate on
           | the deck housing the power, comms, and air supply.
           | 
           | Such an amazing place to be.
        
             | GlenTheMachine wrote:
             | I was! And I worked on SCAMP II.
        
               | aweiland wrote:
               | Very cool! We probably passed on the deck quite a bit
               | then.
        
       | CraigJPerry wrote:
       | >> 8. In nature, the optimum is almost always in the middle
       | somewhere. Distrust assertions that the optimum is at an extreme
       | point.
       | 
       | Is it contentious to say we're going through a point in time
       | where this is not commonly held?
       | 
       | What I really want to figure out is am I mis-remembering or were
       | the late 90s / early 00s pretty strongly centre biased?
        
         | meheleventyone wrote:
         | This is the classic fallacy of the middle ground when it comes
         | to opinions.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation
         | 
         | Particularly as "the middle" can be dependent on where the ends
         | are. The middle ground of American politics is different to the
         | middle ground of European or Chinese politics for example.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | Let's consider this in the context of engineering, rather than
         | politics.
         | 
         | It's not clear that this is a good rule. If you want to get
         | mass from ground to orbit, the rocket equation means that you
         | want the least quantity of infrastructure mass that will work,
         | maximizing the payload fraction. If you're in charge of safety
         | equipment on an orbital station, you want the most effective
         | things you can cram in to your mass budget.
         | 
         | Life support? Whenever possible, eliminate it in favor of
         | automation. But if you need it, you either want minimal
         | (emergency only) or maximal (resilient against disasters) to
         | the extent of your available space/power/mass.
        
           | jcims wrote:
           | You're absolutely right, but I think the point is that the
           | rocket with the maximum payload fraction isn't necessarily
           | the best.
        
           | okl wrote:
           | Right, if the optimum is not the maximum/minimum of X, then
           | you are probably not optimizing for X, or you have additional
           | constraints.
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | The thing is, you always have more than one optimization
             | target.
        
         | tuatoru wrote:
         | Another formulation would be "optimising on one parameter means
         | pessimizing on one or more others".
        
       | DrBazza wrote:
       | What's the one where it's not worth launch an interstellar
       | vehicle now because one launched in, say, 50 years would overtake
       | it and arrive first?
        
         | NortySpock wrote:
         | I've never heard it called anything fancy, just the "wait
         | calculation" or the "wait equation"
         | 
         | https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2006/11/24/barnards-star-and...
        
           | DrBazza wrote:
           | Thanks!
        
       | Razengan wrote:
       | Why is almost every spacecraft design in reality and sci-fi
       | "pointed" like airplanes and sea ships, as if it's only going to
       | move in one direction on one plane?
       | 
       | I'm guessing it's because of the need to go through our
       | atmosphere first.
       | 
       | Wouldn't an omnidirectional saucer-like shape (or spherical for
       | larger ships) be more practical in 3D vacuum?
        
         | frabert wrote:
         | Because that's what the public expects a thing that flies fast
         | to look like. Also the Rule of cool applies here.
        
           | 4gotunameagain wrote:
           | In actual engineering, the "rule of cool" only applies when
           | two options appear to be exactly similar on all other
           | aspects. Which is almost never.
        
           | Razengan wrote:
           | Even then the Independence Day saucers and Borg cubes and
           | spherical ships win out in the cool factor.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | In SciFi many ships have a military purpose and should be
         | designed around the guns and the engines. Everything else used
         | cramed in where there is space.
        
         | elygre wrote:
         | I can think of two:
         | 
         | * There would often be a need to separate human areas from more
         | energy rich areas. A pointed solution often allows for this
         | separation.
         | 
         | * Current engine design has a "rear end" of some sort, which
         | then implies "pointing"
        
         | phreeza wrote:
         | If you are going fast enough, my understanding is that the
         | interstellar medium is actually not that empty and such a shape
         | might make sense again. At least that is the reason given in
         | the Revelation Space saga.
        
           | yetihehe wrote:
           | We don't yet need to go through interstellar medium.
           | Currently vehicles which need to go through atmosphere are
           | pointy. Vehicles which do not are not pointy (all current
           | satellites).
        
             | phreeza wrote:
             | The question specifically included sci-fi.
        
               | detritus wrote:
               | and, critically, 'fast enough'.
        
         | gmueckl wrote:
         | Sci-fi shows need designs that are "readable" by the viewer in
         | split secons. That means unique, distinguishable silhouettes
         | that also tell you at a glance where everything is moving in a
         | shot. Pointy designs make that work excellently.
         | 
         | As for the real world: there are plenty designs that are not
         | pointy and flying: every satellite, the ISS, the lunar
         | lander... however, all the designs that interact with earth's
         | atmosphere have to respect aerodynamics. Thus, just about every
         | ascent vehicle becomes pointy. Landers are different. The Soyuz
         | return module doesn't look particularly pointy, for instance.
        
           | the8472 wrote:
           | almost every satellite.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_Field_and_Steady-
           | State...
        
         | the8472 wrote:
         | > Why is almost every spacecraft design in reality and sci-fi
         | "pointed" like airplanes and sea ships, as if it's only going
         | to move in one direction on one plane?
         | 
         | Because they have directional main engines. That does not
         | strictly necessitate them to be pointy on the opposite end, but
         | it at least requires some design that can distribute the force
         | through the ship's body with the minimal amount of structural
         | mass. E.g. an axial design that only has to withstand
         | compressive forces, not shear forces.
         | 
         | A bigger issue is the lack surface area for cooling. Not even
         | The Expanse gets that one right.
        
           | skrebbel wrote:
           | > A bigger issue is the lack surface area for cooling. Not
           | even The Expanse gets that one right.
           | 
           | Care to elaborate? What's "lack surface area" and how does
           | the Expanse get it wrong?
        
             | PeterisP wrote:
             | Whatever you do with internally generated energy, you
             | either get it out or it accumulates, overheating you.
             | 
             | You need 3-10 m^2 of radiators for every kW of power you
             | use. If your ship is powered (I mean internal power, not
             | engine exhaust) by a 1MW reactor, then you need radiators
             | close to the scale of a football field pushing out waste
             | heat, no matter what tech that reactor uses.
        
               | EForEndeavour wrote:
               | Where does that 3-10 m^2 per kW estimate come from? The
               | best I could guess based on my shaky grasp of radiation
               | is to equate internally generated power to total radiated
               | power using the Stefan-Boltzmann Law:
               | 
               | https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1+kW%2F%28Stefan-
               | Boltz...
               | 
               | Based on that, you need 3-10 m^2 of radiative surface
               | area per kilowatt, but that's assuming your equilibrium
               | temperature is 203 to 275 K (-70 to 2 degC). Assuming I
               | haven't made some basic mistake, couldn't you decide to
               | heat part of your surface to some much higher temperature
               | and radiate most of your internal power out of that part?
        
               | PeterisP wrote:
               | This is what our current spacecraft radiators manage. You
               | also have to take into account that radiators also
               | interact with the sun and with the rest of the
               | spacecraft.
               | 
               | Of course, you could have a heat pump pushing heat to a
               | higher temperature surface, some current radiators do
               | that, but it has its limitations requires more energy for
               | the pump the higher temperature difference you want to
               | sustain.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Delightfully counterintuitive given the low temperatures
               | of space - would it help said ships to hide on the dark
               | side of the moon and avoid solar radiation?
        
             | the8472 wrote:
             | Scifi ships tend have engines with stupendous power ratings
             | (Gigawatts and higher). Even with 99% of efficiency they'd
             | have to shed megawatts of heat. Since there is no
             | convective or conductive cooling in space your steady-state
             | option is radiative cooling which is constrained by surface
             | area, temperature difference and emissivity. You don't have
             | much flexibility on the latter two. So you need to increase
             | surface area. The ISS' radiators take up about 200m2 and
             | can reject 70kW. There are non-steady-state options such as
             | sacrificial coolants or plain thermal mass but that would
             | require extra mass, resupplies or additional downtime. In
             | The Expanse the ships just don't have enough area
             | considering they're powered by fusion reactors burning
             | constantly.
        
               | rm445 wrote:
               | What about lasers for emitting waste heat? Obviously
               | there are practical issues with having powerful-enough
               | lasers essentially powered by a heat engine, but are
               | there thermodynamic reasons it couldn't work?
               | 
               | This question is not 'Expanse'-related but inspired by
               | David Brin's 'Sundiver'.
        
               | NortySpock wrote:
               | I think you're going to run into problems turning waste
               | heat into usable energy, because it implies there's a
               | cold sink already that you can use to convert the
               | temperature differential into electrical energy to drive
               | your laser. High end laser efficacy ranges from 30% to
               | 50%?[1] But regardless, you're asking to get low-entropy
               | energy out of high-entropy energy, and that's one of
               | those "you can't win or break-even at thermodynamics in a
               | closed system" kind of thing. Since spaceships come
               | conveniently jacketed in a vacuum-insulating outer layer
               | (i.e. space :) you're still stuck with some variant of
               | radiative heat transfer, and "a big piece of metal being
               | used as a infrared heat radiator because we pushed heat
               | into it using a refrigerator loop) is still the cheapest
               | option.
               | 
               | The last option techie that I've ever heard for rejecting
               | heat already onboard on a spaceship (and this is pure
               | technobabble from proposals about Star Wars ships massive
               | power generation needs) would be some magical way to
               | convert heat into neutrinos, which, since neutrinos can
               | pass though most matter, could be inside the ship and
               | still function as a heat rejection mechanism. [2]
               | 
               | [1] https://www.laserfocusworld.com/lasers-
               | sources/article/16547...
               | 
               | [2] https://www.theforce.net/swtc/power.html
        
               | blincoln wrote:
               | There's a writeup here that you may be interested in, if
               | you haven't seen it already:
               | 
               | https://toughsf.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-expanses-
               | epstein-dr...
               | 
               | The author suggests creating a fusion reaction well
               | behind the ship, but channeling the useful parts of it in
               | an electromagnetic field tunnel to create thrust while
               | dissipating the heat more effectively. Vaguely like
               | Project Orion, but with a more-or-less continuous
               | external fusion reaction instead of a series of nuclear
               | explosions. I am not a physicist, but they seem to have
               | done their homework.
        
           | benlivengood wrote:
           | > A bigger issue is the lack surface area for cooling. Not
           | even The Expanse gets that one right.
           | 
           | This depends on the working temperature of the radiator too.
           | In theory if area needed to be optimized a (series of) heat
           | pumps could shed more power from a hotter radiator.
           | 
           | If future designers want to be cute about it they could stick
           | a high temperature radiator at the front of the ship as a
           | headlight and lower temperature radiators in the back for a
           | tail light.
        
           | rriepe wrote:
           | Mass Effect is the only sci-fi I've come across that touches
           | on the issue of building up heat in ships in space.
        
             | pomian wrote:
             | Saturn Run, is a really interesting and fun book - by John
             | Sandford. I highly recommend it, as a successful modern
             | science fiction book. That topic is really well covered,
             | with engineers solving all sorts of problems, including
             | that one.
        
             | the8472 wrote:
             | Banner of the Stars addressed it by cooling peak loads via
             | disposable coolant instead of solely relying on radiative
             | cooling. It became a limiting factor during a large-scale
             | fleet battle.
        
         | hyko wrote:
         | They're not? Obviously many of the spacecraft we're used to
         | spend a fair bit of time in the atmosphere, but even real
         | manned spacecraft have come in different shapes and sizes
         | (usually variations on spheres and/or cones).
        
       | hilbert42 wrote:
       | _" 29. (von Tiesenhausen's Law of Program Management) To get an
       | accurate estimate of final program requirements, multiply the
       | initial time estimates by pi, and slide the decimal point on the
       | cost estimates one place to the right."_
       | 
       | I wish I'd learned this a long while ago. Going on some of my
       | current projects, it seems that a good portion of my brain still
       | hasn't!
        
       | gabia wrote:
       | Given spacex, this one hasn't aged well
       | 
       | "39. (alternate formulation) The three keys to keeping a new
       | human space program affordable and on schedule: 1) No new launch
       | vehicles. 2) No new launch vehicles. 3) Whatever you do, don't
       | develop any new launch vehicles."
        
         | benlivengood wrote:
         | Starship is intended to be a dual-purpose cargo and human
         | flight vehicle and Falcon 9 + Dragon were iteratively improved
         | through many cargo launches before Dragon 2 for human flight.
         | 
         | What has likely changed is that there is sufficient demand for
         | cargo flights to bootstrap an affordable human flight program
         | on top of it.
        
         | shakow wrote:
         | SpaceX was neither affordable nor on schedule. If you wanted
         | someone up there cheaply and on time 5 years ago, you should
         | just buy a seat on a Soyuz.
         | 
         | However, #39 doesn't say "don't ever develop new launch
         | vehicles", rather "don't develop new launch vehicles if staying
         | in budget and on timeline is your priority".
        
           | valuearb wrote:
           | Falcon 9 is the most affordable launch system in history.
           | It's saved NASA billions through ISS cargo launches.
           | 
           | And developing their crewed launches has been over a billion
           | dollars cheaper than Boeing, and successfully launched years
           | earlier.
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | SpaceX did not develop a new launch vehicle for a human space
         | program. SpaceX developed two new reusable launch vehicles for
         | transfering cargo, whilst not cutting the corners that could
         | not be cut if it were used for a human space program. Then when
         | it came time to put humans on it, it already had a legacy.
         | 
         | Starship, however, is in fact designed for humans. But it is
         | not part of a "human space program", rather it is a multi-
         | purpose vehicle. It is yet to be seen towards which human space
         | programs it will be applied, but even with the Artemis bid many
         | aspects of Starship were clearly designed without the Artemis
         | bid as a specific target.
        
         | dwighttk wrote:
         | I think that one is a round about way of saying "a new human
         | space program will never be affordable or on schedule"
        
         | yetihehe wrote:
         | It wasn't "on shedule". Also, those launch vehicles were
         | already old and proven (multiple times even!) when they
         | launched humans.
        
           | JonnyaiR wrote:
           | Not quite, spacex changed quite a few things every launch or
           | at least every version, that's why the first falcon 9 is very
           | different compared to one from today. The one carrying humans
           | is called block 5 of the full thrust version (version 1.2).
        
             | qayxc wrote:
             | That's not what they meant - SpaceX didn't develop a Falcon
             | 9M or Falcon X for the crew vehicle is the key here.
        
         | HALtheWise wrote:
         | Notably, SpaceX did not develop the Falcon 9 as part of their
         | human spaceflight program, and it was in fact not rated for
         | carrying humans for many years. They instead developed their
         | launch vehicle as part of a standalone "launch vehicle program"
         | then later committed to building a human spaceflight program on
         | top of their existing rocket. Starship _is_ being developed as
         | part of a human spaceflight program, and we have yet to see
         | whether this violation of Akins Laws will be justified.
        
         | zaphoyd wrote:
         | I had the opposite thought. SLS/Artemis is a "new human space
         | program" that includes a new launch vehicle and it is
         | hopelessly unaffordable and off schedule. SpaceX developed one
         | of the most affordable human launch systems ever made, in a
         | reasonable amount of time, by using their pre-existing cargo
         | launch vehicle. Even Boeing will likely have Starliner, which
         | also uses an existing workhorse launcher, flying humans before
         | SLS launches anything.
        
           | rozab wrote:
           | SLS reuses almost everything (with modifications) from the
           | shuttle program. These are 40 year old designs. Falcon Heavy
           | reused a 10 year old design (Falcon 9).
           | 
           | edit: If we count back to the first successful propulsive
           | landing, the technology was only 5 years old. Falcon Heavy
           | had been planned since way back in 2005.
        
             | larrydag wrote:
             | I think the only thing reused is the engines. Granted that
             | is a lot of the engineering.
             | 
             | https://everydayastronaut.com/sls-vs-starship/
        
             | FlyMoreRockets wrote:
             | My math shows the technology to be 22 years old.
             | 
             | DC-X: First flight (and first successful propulsive
             | landing) 18 August 1993
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_DC-X
             | 
             | "In December 2015, a Falcon 9 accomplished a propulsive
             | vertical landing."
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX
             | 
             | See also:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTVL
             | 
             | Not mentioned in the above link was an amateur group
             | developing VTVL tech around the San Francisco bay area in
             | the 90's. IIRC, it was EPRS. FWIW, they also invented a
             | multi-rotor platform to test their conrol system that
             | evolved into the modern drone.
             | 
             | http://www.erps.org
        
               | valuearb wrote:
               | Don't forget that SpaceX Grasshopper flew DC-X like tests
               | in 2012. Not first by any means, but first for SpaceX.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_prototypes
        
               | FlyMoreRockets wrote:
               | Valid point. Also, if one wants to stretch the envelope,
               | Harold Graham, flying the Bell Rocket Belt, performed the
               | first rocket powered landing, April 20th, 1961 at Bell
               | Aerospace, upstate New York. This development footage
               | opens with that flight:
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxmxbMdToR4
        
         | Isamu wrote:
         | Agreed, the entire point of Starship development is to make a
         | new human space program (to Mars) affordable.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | All of spacex work is on launch vehicles, so I disagree, you
         | are just reading it wrong.
        
           | valuearb wrote:
           | Also Cargo and Crew Dragons.
        
             | Rebelgecko wrote:
             | And a large satellite constellation
        
       | iamtedd wrote:
       | Just finished watching the latest episode of The Expanse and had
       | to severely reel back my expectation of 'spacecraft' when reading
       | this article.
        
       | leetrout wrote:
       | " 7. At the start of any design effort, the person who most wants
       | to be team leader is least likely to be capable of it."
       | 
       | That's interesting. I generally have strong opinions about things
       | I care about and would much rather be the one making decisions so
       | I can own the outcome, ESPECIALLY negative outcomes. Maybe it's
       | just a control thing... I'd rather fix my own mess
        
         | vvanders wrote:
         | I think it's largely a function of the intrinsic reason that
         | someone wants to lead.
         | 
         | Are they in it for the title or the prestige? Their desire will
         | as some point run in conflict with the larger program goals.
         | 
         | Do they do it because they enjoy bringing a diverse set of
         | viewpoints together to create something that couldn't be
         | created in isolation? That might have a better chance of
         | success.
         | 
         | Unfortunately it's very difficult to determine this externally
         | without a significant investment in time or otherwise.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | " To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who
         | most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to
         | do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of
         | getting themselves made President should on no account be
         | allowed to do the job." Douglas Adams
         | 
         | This has largely been my experience.
        
         | moosebear847 wrote:
         | Strong opinions could be bad at the start, when nobody really
         | actually knows what the heck is going on.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | lordnacho wrote:
       | > Engineering is done with numbers. Analysis without numbers is
       | only an opinion.
       | 
       | With or without numbers, it's still an opinion?
        
         | slx26 wrote:
         | It happens with language. Although you can label both as
         | "opinions", one of them is, probabilistically speaking, a more
         | substantiated opinion.
        
         | majkinetor wrote:
         | Not sure why you are downvoted, unless we are in math land, you
         | might be right.
         | 
         | Numbers that come from measurements are often not precise
         | enough, measure additional things, massaged until they fit the
         | preconceived etc. So its still the opinion pretending to be
         | engineering.
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | I recall 39. whenever someone suggests rolling their own form
       | component library along with the project - it's pretty much the
       | same issue.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Well, trade offs right? Rolling their own form component is
         | sometimes the right decision, depending on context and more.
         | 
         | See also, #1 and #12 that should be considered in your example
         | too.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | Perhaps, but in my experience most of the time the project
           | focus shifts to those components from the application in
           | question.
        
       | teleforce wrote:
       | Awesome list of engineering wisdoms!
       | 
       | This one probably the best:
       | 
       | 36:Any run-of-the-mill engineer can design something which is
       | elegant. A good engineer designs systems to be efficient. A great
       | engineer designs them to be effective.
       | 
       | This statement reminded me of the popular quote on teacher, "The
       | mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior
       | teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires."
        
         | okl wrote:
         | Unless you can decide what elegant, efficient, and effective
         | mean for your project that statement is empty.
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | Cheap, fast, good.
           | 
           | Mediocre: pick one. Adequate: pick two. Outstanding: pick
           | three. And customers are happy too.
        
           | _Microft wrote:
           | _Elegant_ might be open for debate, but _efficient_ means
           | good use of needed resources and _effective_ that the desired
           | outcome is actually achieved.
        
             | odonnellryan wrote:
             | I would say, if engineers can even identify what the
             | desired outcome is, they are already on the path to being
             | excellent (or maybe, if they even _attempt_ to identify
             | what the desire outcome is!)
        
             | marcosdumay wrote:
             | Elegant engineering work is work that has good properties
             | as evaluated by other engineers and that don't directly
             | impact the properties non-engineers care about (what
             | doesn't mean that aren't impacts, just not direct ones).
             | 
             | I don't think you will find this in any dictionary, but the
             | meaning is incredibly consistent, even on different
             | engineering areas and different languages.
        
           | simonh wrote:
           | That's why good teaching is hard.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | TIL that great (and excellent) are _stronger_ adjectives than
         | superior. Thanks.
        
         | hyperpallium2 wrote:
         | I would say the best teacher listens - how can you direct
         | someone somewhere if you don't know where they are?
         | 
         | Of course, only really feasible for 1-1 teaching.
        
       | pmdulaney wrote:
       | "(Nasa's Law) Work flows to the most competent man until he
       | sinks."
       | 
       | Yes, sexist, I know. I recall this from many years ago but have
       | not been able to find an official source. Anyone know?
        
       | dotancohen wrote:
       | > #20 A bad design with a good presentation is doomed       >
       | eventually. A good design with a bad presentation       > is
       | doomed immediately.
       | 
       | This should be the Y Combinator motto. It is one of the axioms
       | that is represented here again and again, both explicitly and
       | implicitly.
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | Hm? I can't think of any recent projects with good design but
         | bad presentation. The first half is true, but the second half
         | seems mistaken in the context of the web.
        
           | jaspax wrote:
           | You can't think of them _because they immediately failed_ ,
           | and thus you forgot about them or, more likely, never heard
           | of them in the first place.
        
             | lisper wrote:
             | Exactly this. I have a long list of examples, with a one-
             | to-one correspondence to large capital losses I have
             | incurred. This is not a coincidence.
        
         | OCISLY wrote:
         | > doomed immediately
         | 
         | It's an amenity, though.
        
       | ausbah wrote:
       | lists of advice like this from experienced practicioners are
       | always great, but does anyone have any good methods for actually
       | incorporating just pieces of wisdom into their own work? I find
       | myself bookmarking stuff like this but never coming back to it or
       | unsure how to fully utilize them
        
       | rzimmerman wrote:
       | These lists can be fun because they're a list of inside jokes,
       | but there's nothing useful or actionable here. I'm not a fan of
       | this type of self-congratulating stuff about budgets and
       | schedules never being right and launch vehicles being too hard.
       | This type of mentality is why most of the industry is stuck in
       | the 60s. Honestly it sounds analogous to wondering why anyone
       | would want a personal computer 40 years ago.
        
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