[HN Gopher] Chemisty of Cast-Iron Seasoning: A Science-Based How...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Chemisty of Cast-Iron Seasoning: A Science-Based How-To (2010)
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 269 points
       Date   : 2021-01-10 15:44 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sherylcanter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sherylcanter.com)
        
       | krrrh wrote:
       | Contra to what most are saying here, I went through this
       | laborious and stinky process of taking my pans down to bare metal
       | and building them back up with flax oil a couple of years ago and
       | got great results.
       | 
       | I did get poor performance after a few months and felt
       | heartbroken over it, but fixed it with another approach that
       | differs from received wisdom: use soap and a nylon scouring pad
       | from time to time. That's never damaged the seasoning, but
       | removes any caked on burned bits of food that dull the pan. I
       | read on /r/castiron that the idea of soap being damaging is a
       | hold over from when lye based soap was commonly used for dishes.
       | Modern dish _detergent_ isn't going to cause the same damage. The
       | other thing that helped was getting a straight metal spatula to
       | really scrape the pan which has resulted in a smoother surface
       | over time.
        
         | stouset wrote:
         | Nobody is saying you'll definitely get bad results from this,
         | but it is a large waste of time. I say this as someone who did
         | the same thing, always struggled to figure out why I had
         | problems, and had better results when I simply _stopped babying
         | it_.
         | 
         | IMO your problem was likely the lack of washing. Soap and
         | scrubbing _will not_ damage your patina in any meaningful way.
         | What washing does do is removes the caked on, half-polymerized
         | bits that causes food to stick (and which creates a negative
         | feedback loop of problems).
         | 
         | Your cast iron is not a precious flower. Your grandmother did
         | not fret over the decision of which oil to use for optimal
         | seasoning. Use it, abuse it, and clean it out like anything
         | else when you're done (if there's visible residue). If you
         | want, dry it out on the stove top afterward and wipe a thin
         | layer of oil on to it.
        
           | krrrh wrote:
           | I agree, things improved when I liberally used soap,
           | scrubbers, and sharp flat metal spatulas to scrape things
           | clean.
           | 
           | But I also haven't seen any flaking of the flax base
           | seasoning like others have. With previous pans I have
           | accidentally scrubbed down to bare metal. Maybe I was just
           | starting with thrift store pans that had been too heavily
           | babied, and the process of cooking off the layers of
           | carbonized food and old seasoning and starting over helped
           | regardless of which oil I used.
        
       | 5ersi wrote:
       | Well, linseed is the same thing as flax:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flax
       | 
       | So linseed oil is flaxseed oil, the question is only if the
       | process of extracting it is food-grade.
        
       | vikramkr wrote:
       | Mentioning a couple hypotheses (drying oils make for better
       | seasonings) with a couple hypothesized mechanisms does not make
       | this a science based approach. A science based approach (in this
       | particular chemical context) would involve controlled experiments
       | (off the top of my head, what about the roughness of the cast
       | iron? Carbon content? Time to warm up the oven? Why six layers
       | and not twelve? Etc etc). Claims like "youbneed to use 100% pure
       | oil, I think that's why it might not be working for you" would
       | not be present - science based involves testing that hypothesis
       | and seeing if the purity or brand or whatever of the oil matters
       | There! There would be some key metrics to measure, such as some
       | molecular analysis of the residue, some test for non-stick
       | ability, and perhaps a longevity test.
       | 
       | It might seem like a bit much, but this is an article presenting
       | the conclusions of "science" as recommendations to pursue in your
       | every day life, and a lack of scientific rigor can create false
       | confidence in false solutions. For something as complex as
       | polymerization in the varied environment of home cast iron
       | seasoning, there's an enormous amount of work and confounding
       | factors you would need to sift through (seasoning on the stove vs
       | oven?). Without that rigor, you might have stumbled into the best
       | way of doing things, but as other comments suggest, its more
       | likely your lack of rigor has led to missing things like the
       | seasonings tendency to flake.
        
         | ahepp wrote:
         | Most popular "food science" falls into this trap, as far as
         | I've seen. Even my preferred resources such as seriouseats or
         | America's Test Kitchen.
         | 
         | A teaspoon of vodka in the dough makes the pie crust flakier?
         | At the very least it seems like one could say "we cooked 5 pies
         | each way, and a blind taste test found that 4/5 tasters rated
         | the batter with vodka as flakier".
         | 
         | That seems like the minimum amount of effort to call something
         | scientific. It doesn't require any specialized equipment or
         | training. We're not even getting into detailed methodology, or
         | significance testing. Yet still, even the best sources I see
         | make completely opaque claims such as "we found reverse
         | creaming makes the cake more dense and buttery, while
         | traditional creaming results in a traditional fluffy cake".
        
           | germinalphrase wrote:
           | An aside: America's Test Kitchen "Best Recipes" book taught
           | me how to cook in my early twenties. Having a page or two of
           | "we tried this, hated this, liked this tweak, so that's why
           | we do..." helped tremendously in learning how/why recipe
           | design and cooking technique matter.
        
         | smichel17 wrote:
         | As I mentioned in my other comment in this thread, the linked
         | article goes in the step in the right direction by _having
         | hypotheses at all._ That 's why this article remains so
         | influential despite its hypothesis (flax oil makes for better
         | seasoning) having been disproved.
         | 
         | If someone wants to dethrone this article, they need to do it
         | with more/better science to support an alternative hypothesis
         | (e.g. a recommendation for a different oil). Without this, it
         | is impossible to establish the credibility of different
         | recommendations.
        
           | vikramkr wrote:
           | It then takes a step in the wrong direction by presenting the
           | hypothesis as a scientific conclusion. Everyone has a
           | hypothesis. Having a hypothesis doesn't make it special or
           | science based. Every anecdote driven article is presenting a
           | hypothesis, and an awful lot of them Couch their anecdotes in
           | potential scientific explanations to sound more credible.
           | Theres not a need to do "more" science - there's a need to do
           | basically _any_ science. I 'll grant that the societal
           | context means that someone has to do more work and then
           | present their findings in an equally engaging way (with the
           | necessary anecdotes etc), but science based?
        
       | jfoutz wrote:
       | 2020 taught me a lot more about cooking than I ever would have
       | gone out of my way to learn on my own.
       | 
       | I've never cooked with what I imagine to be a perfect seasoning
       | on my skillet. I just cook with it.
       | 
       | I sorta wonder if there's a kind of placebo effect. When you
       | really think about your tools, you notice lots of little things
       | to do better (or I did anyway).
       | 
       | Getting the pan hot enough, and being aware of what parts are
       | hotter, like the ring where the burner heats the skillet, had a
       | huge impact on stuff "sticking" I don't know if the heat helps
       | seal up little micro holes and cracks, so food doesn't grab onto
       | those edges. Or perhaps The moisture turns to steam and creates a
       | little gap, letting food sort of float above the pan, never
       | really making contact. Maybe both.
       | 
       | Just a tiny bit of lubrication helps so much as well. A spray of
       | pam or a few drops of oil work wonders.
       | 
       | With a good understanding of heat and lubrication, I feel sorta
       | like I could cook eggs on a pie pan over a burner, and they won't
       | stick.
       | 
       | I wonder how much is seasoning, and how much is understanding how
       | the tools work, inside and out, to get desired outcomes.
        
         | leetcrew wrote:
         | the thing about cooking is there are often many different ways
         | to achieve the same outcome. a cast iron skillet with an even
         | layer of seasoning has noticeably better (to me, at least)
         | nonstick properties than the same skillet with a half-assed
         | seasoning on it. but the former takes a lot more time/effort
         | and it really doesn't matter if you just add an extra pad of
         | butter. with enough cooking fat, eggs will slide around any
         | skillet as if it were an ice rink.
        
       | hawktheslayer wrote:
       | I'm halfway through a modified version of her method. Used her
       | oven cleaner idea and just using the high heat sunflower oil I
       | have on hand. Wish me luck!
        
       | kevinmchugh wrote:
       | You really shouldn't buy a special oil just got seasoning your
       | cast iron and carbon steel. It's not necessary. Pick an oil with
       | a high smoke point, a neutral taste, and plenty of easy
       | availability. That's often peanut. Avocado is great if you're
       | fancy.
       | 
       | Keep a squirt bottle of oil on hand and make sure you're using
       | enough. Using soap to clean your pans will make maintaining your
       | seasoning easier, as you use less effort to clean them. See this
       | if you're skeptical: https://www.seriouseats.com/2014/11/the-
       | truth-about-cast-iro...
       | 
       | I had friends dedicate years to flax seed oil. They're not happy
       | about it, as they've got flaking to deal with. I also had friends
       | disbelieve me that soap was okay, and they've mostly come around
       | after hearing me swear by it for years.
        
         | SoSoRoCoCo wrote:
         | Peanut oil has a flavor. Safflower and sunflower oils have
         | higher temperature and no flavor.
         | 
         | Been using safflower for over 20 years on my day-use skillet.
        
         | dunham wrote:
         | Past the initial seasoning, I've found that just using the pan
         | helps a lot. My problem has been that I've a lot of rough (and
         | very hard) cruft built up on the outside and the upper part of
         | inside of the pan.
         | 
         | +1 on the squirt bottle of oil, I started doing that a few
         | years ago and it was game-changing. Previously I'd just pour a
         | little out of the original bottle when I was cooking, which was
         | a lot less convenient than having something appropriately sized
         | and within arms reach.
        
         | Enginerrrd wrote:
         | >Pick an oil with a high smoke point
         | 
         | This doesn't seem to agree with either experience or the
         | scientific understanding of the polymerization process that
         | needs to occur in a well seasoned cast iron pan.
        
         | p1necone wrote:
         | "Pick an oil with a high smoke point, a neutral taste"
         | 
         | This sounds somewhat like "special" to me.
        
           | kevinmchugh wrote:
           | You probably want a neutral oil for salad dressings, or
           | mayonnaise. You want a high smoke point for any frying(deep,
           | shallow, or stir) you'll do. Every grocery store I've been in
           | has peanut, canola, or avocado, which will all do.
        
         | bch wrote:
         | > You really shouldn't buy a special oil just [for] seasoning
         | your cast iron and carbon steel. It's not necessary. Pick an
         | oil with a high smoke point, a neutral taste, and plenty of
         | easy availability. That's often peanut. Avocado is great if
         | you're fancy. Keep a squirt bottle of oil on hand and make sure
         | you're using enough.
         | 
         | > I had friends dedicate years to flax seed oil. They're not
         | happy about it, as they've got flaking to deal with.
         | 
         | I happen to have bought some flax oil specifically for
         | seasoning my cast iron - you're saying it's _contraindicated_
         | though? (So "you don't need special oil, but _especially_ not
         | these" (leaving only peanut and avocado))?
         | 
         | For the amount of times the word "science" is dropped there's
         | still a good amount of myth and legend associated with owning
         | cast iron. Short of having my own double blind statically
         | significant study and perhaps a microscope to observe the
         | polymerization effects, I'm still flopping back/forth a bit
         | about what "the best" or at least not leaving a simple
         | improvement on the table, is. What a journey.
         | 
         | Still worth the trouble, though. Cooking is fun, and cast iron
         | is a good cooking tool.
        
           | nightski wrote:
           | I interpreted what he said as you don't need a special oil,
           | but here are some good options that do not have a strong
           | flavor and will work well. But you could just as well use any
           | other oil. I avoid nut based oils so I generally have olive
           | and avacado around.
        
             | bch wrote:
             | I guess the best oil (olive or otherwise) is highly
             | processed, to remove volatile (flavour and healthy)
             | components, since it's essentially just being cooked into a
             | polymer. Added bonus that these are probably cheapest - is
             | that your experience?
        
               | late2part wrote:
               | Olive Oil's smoke point is not terribly high.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Smoke_point_of_coo
               | kin...
        
               | bch wrote:
               | It looks to me like refined olive oil is in a range that
               | puts it near the top. I guess the question though, is: is
               | it sufficient?
        
             | BikiniPrince wrote:
             | I don't know if there was much interpretation. It broke
             | down the science well enough or at least offered theories.
             | 
             | Having some good success and failure I am willing to try a
             | few ideas in the article.
             | 
             | One variation a YouTuber offered was to heat the oil in the
             | pan on the stove and then wipe the excess.
             | 
             | So far I have duplicated a lot of points in the article
             | with different success ratios. I do agree a long smoke
             | rate, upside down and long cooling period is ideal.
             | 
             | I use the grill so I don't worry about the smoke
             | generation.
             | 
             | More or less I've used this on the last successful project,
             | but with corn oil. I went with a hybrid seasoning oil
             | recently and I'm not impressed. I'll try flax next.
        
         | ethbr0 wrote:
         | > _You really shouldn 't buy a special oil just [for] seasoning
         | your cast iron and carbon steel. It's not necessary._
         | 
         | Source: lack of historic availability of avocado oil in the
         | South
        
         | smichel17 wrote:
         | As someone relatively new to cast iron (around a year of
         | cooking with it), I am inclined to believe the parts of this
         | article that I cannot validate through my own experience,
         | because the other parts match what I have learned through
         | experimentation. However, I must point out that a year ago, I
         | would have no way to recognize this. Whether or not this
         | article is correct, it is at the same level of heresay as every
         | other article, reddit comment, or youtube video out there (like
         | the carbon steel video linked in the replies, which says never
         | to use soap).
         | 
         | Despite the flax oil article being bad science, it is still the
         | _most_ science of any of the cast iron information out there,
         | which is why it continues to enjoy such popularity. Even if it
         | is bad science, it at least provides some hypotheses to test!
         | 
         | Here's my hypotheses on soap (edit: rephrased to better reflect
         | my meaning):
         | 
         | 1) Soap is fine to use; it will not damage the seasoning.
         | 
         | 2) Seasoning is often damaged (at least a little) while cooking
         | and it is important to re-season regularly to keep the pan in
         | good shape.
         | 
         | 3) If you do not use soap, the amount of oil left on the
         | surface is similar to the amount you would want to wipe on when
         | re-seasoning.
         | 
         | Basically, I think no soap + dry on stove is a shortcut to
         | avoid the process/effort of reseasoning the pan (especially if
         | you do the oil-and-salt-as-an-abrasive trick). Perhaps you'll
         | get better results using soap and then wiping on oil, but it's
         | more work and many people don't do the second part. Thus, they
         | see better results when they don't use soap.
         | 
         | This would explain why some people tell you you need to
         | reseason after every use, while others say that's bubkis, and
         | why the same is true of soap avoidance.
         | 
         | To test: try all 4 combinations of soap/no-soap and
         | reseasoning/just-drying (always dry the same way, on the
         | stovetop).
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | You asked if I could look at this in a different part of this
           | comment thread.
           | 
           | What you say seems more or less correct to me. I think if you
           | approach cast iron that way, you will have good results.
           | 
           | Basically, you don't want the pan to look "not-oiled", and
           | how much effort you need to put into that depends on how much
           | you are removing the existing oil during the cooking process.
           | 
           | I think the "looks oily" test is the proper determinant for
           | if the cast iron is in good shape. Trying to develop a
           | "seasoning" layer is likely to just cause frustration.
        
           | joshribakoff wrote:
           | 1 and 2 are a contradiction
        
             | smichel17 wrote:
             | Hm, you're right, thanks for pointing this out. There was
             | no contraction in what I _meant_ , but I didn't express
             | what I meant correctly.
             | 
             | They don't conflict if the seasoning is already damaged
             | (during cooking) before cleaning it. Cleaning with soap
             | would not repair it at all (thus, reseasoning is required),
             | whereas if you don't use soap, the pan is reseasoned in the
             | same step as drying it on the stove.
             | 
             | Part of the problem was that I was overloading the word
             | "reseasoning" to also refer to doing it in an explicit step
             | (ie, the wiping on/off of oil) as well as the effect of
             | rebuilding the layer of seasoning.
             | 
             | I've edited my post to hopefully be more clear.
        
           | ska wrote:
           | As a data point, I use a little soap when it feels needed
           | (every few times, usually) and add seasoning when it feels
           | needed (less often). Seasoning remains great (fry eggs
           | without sticking).
           | 
           | These are my most often used pans, and have remained that way
           | for many years.
           | 
           | Fwiw I rarely need or use a scraper or salt while cleaning ,
           | I'll "deglaze" if there is fond in the pan, even in the rare
           | case that I'm not using the result for anything.
        
         | fireattack wrote:
         | Great article, just one thing I don't quite understand: vintage
         | vs modern cast iron pans.
         | 
         | I get his point about the older ones having smooth(er) finish
         | due to production methods change, but what stops _SOME_ modern
         | manufacturers to do the same? Surely for a community that is
         | essentially a cult, there should be enough people buying it to
         | worth the additional manufacturing cost?
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | > what stops SOME modern manufacturers to do the same?
           | 
           | I believe there are manufacturers filling that niche now.
           | Field [0] is one that I'm aware of. I think there are four or
           | five others.
           | 
           | [0] https://fieldcompany.com/
        
             | xKingfisher wrote:
             | Butterpat Industries is another.
             | 
             | I have one of their pans and it's excellent.
        
           | cbsmith wrote:
           | Turns out, there are some:
           | https://www.foodandwine.com/lifestyle/kitchen/the-real-
           | reaso...
        
         | iamacyborg wrote:
         | I'm a simple man, I see a post linking to a J. Kenji Lopez-Alt
         | article, I upvote.
         | 
         | Another good method is outlined in this America's Test Kitchen
         | video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suTmUX4Vbk
         | 
         | If you have a friend who runs a Chinese restaurant, you could
         | always try this, too
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGXGJD2xTzQ
         | 
         | I do this regularly and always clean my pan with soap after
         | use.
        
           | steve_adams_86 wrote:
           | That wok seasoning video is what I do! I also use soap on my
           | pans, just not too much and with gentle scrubbing.
           | 
           | The wok burner I have is this one:
           | https://www.amazon.ca/Eastman-Outdoors-37212-Gourmet-
           | Carbon/...
           | 
           | It's a ton of fun to cook on, and useful for way more than
           | just the wok. When I go diving and get crabs for example,
           | this thing gets a huge pot of water boiling in no time and
           | makes prepping a lot of crabs really easy.
           | 
           | And yeah, it'll season any pan like nothing else. I was
           | terrible at seasoning pans until I started throwing them on
           | this thing.
        
           | markgall wrote:
           | Although Kenji: "Whenever someone asks me why their cast iron
           | seasoning is weak or flaky, I ask if they followed that
           | popular (but wrong!) flaxseed seasoning guide [i.e. the
           | linked article]. The answer has been yes 100% of the time."
        
         | war1025 wrote:
         | As someone who owns more cast iron than is reasonable, I just
         | wanted to go a step beyond upvoting this and acknowledge in
         | writing that this is the correct view of things.
         | 
         | You want oil soaked into the metal. This idea that you are
         | trying to build a non-stick surface on top of the metal is just
         | adding extra work that isn't needed.
         | 
         | Wash with soap, dry of the stove top, put in some oil (I use
         | peanut), then take a paper towel and rub the oil around over
         | everything and at the end the metal should look shiny but there
         | shouldn't be any pooled oil left anywhere.
         | 
         | If you are cooking something that doesn't leave a residue or
         | strong flavor, you can skip the washing all together and just
         | leave it there to cook with next time.
         | 
         | If you try to go the whole "never wash this" route, you end up
         | with unhappy results going from cooking something with onions
         | and garlic to cooking something more neutral flavored. No one
         | wants onion flavored pancakes.
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | > No one wants onion flavored pancakes.
           | 
           | Somebody's never had latkes before.
        
           | stouset wrote:
           | Also, without washing, you end up with rough spots of non-
           | sticky partially-polymerized bits. Wash it with soap and a
           | scrub brush. Nothing short of steel wool is going to affect
           | the patina.
           | 
           | For proof of this, check out your aluminum baking sheets. If
           | they've been used, they're almost certainly covered in a
           | shiny black substance that's a complete pain in the ass to
           | remove, even with abrasives. That's essentially what's on
           | your cast iron.
        
             | petre wrote:
             | I wash it with water and scrub with scotch brite. Will try
             | homemade soap.
        
               | chipsa wrote:
               | Do not use homemade soap. Homemade soap is made with lye,
               | which is the entire reason why people said not to use
               | soap, once upon a time. An unreacted lye will start to
               | strip seasoning.
               | 
               | Use dish detergent (commercial dish soap). It's made in a
               | different way, so you can't get un-reacted lye.
        
               | DanBC wrote:
               | If you have unreacted lye in your soap you're going to
               | have more problems than just stripping the seasoning off
               | your pan.
        
               | chipsa wrote:
               | I mean, if you have a bunch, yeah, you're going to have
               | more issue than just stripping seasoning off. But most of
               | the problem is just the slightest hint excess from making
               | sure the entire volume of oil is saponified.
               | 
               | It's part of why you had the rubber dishwashing gloves
               | get invented: soap used to be harsher, and one of the
               | reasons why is the fact that soaps were made with lye.
        
             | chongli wrote:
             | _Nothing short of steel wool is going to affect the
             | patina._
             | 
             | Actually, if you throw it in the oven and set it to self-
             | clean it'll strip the seasoning right off. I've done it
             | with my cast iron pan before. Washes completely clean and
             | ends up gun-metal grey; a non-oxidized pure iron surface.
             | This is a great way to start over with the seasoning
             | process if you're unhappy with it.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Apparently there is some controversy over whether the
               | self-cleaning cycle is bad for ovens. [1] [2]
               | 
               | 1: https://www.thekitchn.com/why-you-should-almost-never-
               | use-th...
               | 
               | 2: https://lifehacker.com/dont-use-your-ovens-self-
               | cleaning-fun...
        
               | mdtusz wrote:
               | I've tried this a few times and none of the ovens I've
               | had over the years have been successful in removing
               | seasoning with their self-cleaning, so at this point I'm
               | trying to find a machine shop that will be happy to bead
               | blast it and mill the surface flat again. So far, most
               | shops have given me quotes in the hundreds of dollars so
               | I've been waiting until I meet someone that has the
               | capability to just do it in their garage.
               | 
               | Most new cast iron cookware now has a raw surface with
               | lots of pits and bumps from the casting process as well,
               | which doesn't seem to get nearly as smooth and non-stick
               | as "vintage" cookware.
        
               | BikiniPrince wrote:
               | You can stick the pan in a bag, spray on some easy off
               | and let it soak overnight.
        
               | jnellis wrote:
               | Our dog's food bowl is about the most mirror polished
               | metal in the house. Free labor.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | Just wait until you diamond-grit-coat Fluffy's tongue...
        
               | slacka wrote:
               | Since quarantine life, I've been cooking multiple times a
               | day. My oven's self-clean makes my pans look exactly like
               | new. Takes all of the black off leaving them with a
               | shiny, silvery shine. I then have to season them to
               | regain a nonstick coating as good as any Ceramic/Teflon
               | pan that I've used.
               | 
               | As far soap. My experience is that it definitely damages
               | the nonstick coating, depending on how much you use. You
               | can get by with a soapy sponge, but putting detergent
               | directly on it and the nonstick coating will be lost.
               | 
               | The best way to avoid need to avoid soap or scrubbing and
               | re-seasoning is to put hot water in the pan while it's
               | still hot and scrape. Meat is the worst for leaving a
               | coating and this technique removes 99% of it.(If not
               | blackened use that water for a delicious sauce with all
               | the best flavors of your cooking). This routine allows me
               | to use the same pan for months without a deep cleaning.
               | 
               | I have tried to put cold oil on after heaving soaping,
               | but I'm not happy with the pan until I season it with
               | high heat. The only reason I'd do it for rust and still
               | would pan on seasoning it properly later.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | The biggest difference I've found (moreso on stainless
               | steel than cast iron) is food weight: which is to say,
               | time food is left without moving.
               | 
               | Which makes sense. Essentially burnt-to-pan bits are
               | food-pan interface, as opposed to food-oil-pan interface.
               | 
               | Give enough time, heavy food displaces oil and comes in
               | direct contact with pan. Given enough movement, oil is
               | able to reimpose itself between the two.
        
               | captrb wrote:
               | I used a propane grill and it was very, very effective. I
               | removed the grates and (if I recall correctly) rested the
               | pan on the heat deflection sheets. I left all burners on
               | for about 2 1/2 hours. After cooling, the previous
               | coating was reduced to a thin dust. After blowing it off,
               | the pan was gun metal grey.
               | 
               | I then used a cheap corded drill and inexpensive flap
               | wheels and similar attachments from the hardware store to
               | make it smooth, wearing an N95 mask to protect my lungs.
        
               | chipsa wrote:
               | Self cleaning should reach a high enough temp for it,
               | because most of what you use the self-cleaning to take
               | off is effectively seasoning. If it's not getting hot
               | enough, use something else to get it hot enough
               | (blowtorch, maybe).
               | 
               | For smoothing out the surface, you could just use a
               | flapwheel. You can get them for angle grinders. This will
               | also take off seasoning if necessary (but it's a bit
               | worse for the pan if you're not also trying to smooth it
               | out). Be sure to wear a respirator and googles if you're
               | doing this.
        
               | im3w1l wrote:
               | How does this work?
        
               | sircastor wrote:
               | Self cleaning ovens bake as hot as they can to vaporize
               | material. After the cycle is complete, you take a brush
               | and sweep out the ash.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | Yes, if you happen to own an oven that has this feature.
               | It's not exactly common.
               | 
               | Edit: because of course I triggered a storm. Maybe it's
               | common elsewhere. I've lived in few EU countries, rented
               | then owned a few houses, exactly only one of them had an
               | oven with the self cleaning(by heating up to like 500C)
               | feature, I don't think we ever used it. When we bought
               | our current oven none of the ones we looked at had that
               | function. A fancy Candy we looked at had a function where
               | it cleans itself with steam(where you fill up a provided
               | container with water and then it heats it up to fill the
               | oven with steam and in theory that softens the gunk. No
               | idea if that actually works).
               | 
               | If it's common where you live, then my apologies for this
               | comment.
        
               | chipsa wrote:
               | Mine doesn't, but that's because it's too fancy, and has
               | a special coating on the inside that's supposed to make
               | stuff just come off. Freaking Whirlpool. It doesn't work.
        
               | philwelch wrote:
               | I've never had a non-self-cleaning oven.
        
               | BikiniPrince wrote:
               | You can do it with a propane grill as the temperatures
               | are hot enthused to carbonize any polymers.
               | 
               | Or just use easy off which is a spray on acid.
        
               | butterfi wrote:
               | Really? I figured most ovens had a self-cleaning
               | option... I did this trick to recondition several cast
               | iron pans and it works great, but be prepared for massive
               | amounts of greasy smoke.
        
               | onli wrote:
               | Afaik it's just not a thing in europe. Only high end
               | models have it, and even then it's an optional feature
               | that costs extra. Even in a kitchen I rented where just
               | the sink faucet did cost 1000EUR the self-cleaning module
               | of the oven was not installed.
        
               | iamacyborg wrote:
               | We tend to have pretty different ovens in Europe vs the
               | US.
        
               | ros86 wrote:
               | Just a random thought (lived both in the US and in the
               | EU): could it be that US ovens are more often gas ovens
               | while in the EU it's mostly electric? (might be easier to
               | get higher temperatures with gas).
               | 
               | Couldn't find statistics on this with a quick search...
        
               | iamacyborg wrote:
               | I've lived in the US and EU too. My experience was we
               | have fan assisted ovens in the EU whereas ones I saw in
               | the US had a top and bottom element with no fan assist.
        
               | astura wrote:
               | Fan assisted ovens are also called "convection ovens."
               | They certainly exist in the US, but I think they are more
               | high end? I personally have one, it also has a self-clean
               | function. The stove part is gas but I think (?) the oven
               | is electric.
        
               | the_pwner224 wrote:
               | It's the opposite... my oven in the US doesn't have the
               | cleaning thing, turns out it's because it's gas only. The
               | gas stovetop + electric oven version of this model has
               | it. Seems to be a thing even with other manufacturers and
               | models.
        
               | slavik81 wrote:
               | I'm in Canada, but I don't think I've ever seen a gas
               | oven. All my ovens have been electric, and nearly all of
               | them had a self-clean option.
        
               | xxs wrote:
               | interesting - both electrolux ovens i have had in the
               | last 10y do have self cleaning. that just - heat as much
               | as possible mode.
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | I lived in some of the crappiest places, never had a
               | fancy oven. Every single one had a self cleaning option.
        
               | mikepurvis wrote:
               | Some wackos disable the safety latch and then cook pizza
               | in their ovens on the self clean cycle:
               | 
               | https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=268.0
        
               | giardini wrote:
               | Thank you for the most informative post on this HN
               | discussion!
        
               | nycticorax wrote:
               | Not sure where you're writing from, but it's very common
               | in the US. This article (https://www.thekitchn.com/why-
               | you-should-almost-never-use-th...) quotes someone who
               | works for an appliance store in Cincinnati who says it's
               | difficult to sell an oven without that feature. And as
               | others have said, every oven I have every owned (or that
               | my parents owned when I was around and capable of forming
               | memories) has been self-cleaning.
               | 
               | Maybe it sounds fancier than it is? Is not like it has a
               | little robot that cleans the oven. It's just a mode where
               | the oven can get the internal temperature very high (up
               | to 1000 degrees F according to that article) that just
               | incinerates any organic material stuck to the oven walls.
        
               | astura wrote:
               | In my experience it was fairly uncommon 30+ years ago,
               | but common today.
        
               | saiya-jin wrote:
               | Its not fancy, but I guess it requires a bit more
               | resilient engineering/materials than 250C ovens. Its
               | definitely not a norm in budget/medium priced ovens in
               | Europe, even for new. I mean brands like Bosch mostly
               | don't have it here, I never had one (house, 2 apartments,
               | couple of rental apartments all with full kitchen,
               | kitchen < 10 years old).
        
             | AmericanChopper wrote:
             | Cooking anything acidic will strip all of the seasoning
             | right off. I can easily keep a seasoning on my carbon steel
             | woks, but it'll vanish if I cook one Pad Thai. For my cast
             | iron I can keep it there until I want to cook anything with
             | tomatoes.
        
             | gilrain wrote:
             | Incidentally, if your want your aluminum or stainless steel
             | clean again with almost no effort, use Barkeeper's Friend.
             | It's an oxalic acid product, and it wipes away stains with
             | a sponge that you'd work hard to sand out.
             | 
             | Obviously, do not use on cast iron or carbon steel.
        
               | stouset wrote:
               | I don't know about your experience, but even with BKF,
               | the scrubby side of the sponge, and a _lot_ of elbow
               | grease, it takes ages to get it off an aluminum pan. I
               | did it once and it took two full hours, and gave me
               | blisters on my hands from the sheer amount of scrubbing.
        
               | cmckn wrote:
               | Try oven cleaner! I leave it on sheet pans for about 15
               | minutes; it's amazing what wipes away.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | I had similar issues with the AllClad pans I bought, so I
               | called them out of frustration. They recommend Dobie
               | sponges in addition to the Barkeeper's Friend. It seems
               | to help.
               | 
               | What also helps is simmering something acidic in the pan
               | for about 10-15 minutes (wine, watered-down vinegar,
               | etc). The base then cleans pretty easily. It's the burnt
               | bits of fat that splatter up the walls of the pan that
               | are murder to get out.
        
               | mark-r wrote:
               | Burnt bits of fat don't come off with acid, they need
               | base. My wife pours ammonia into a baggie and leaves
               | things in it.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | Sponges come in all levels of abrasiveness.
               | 
               | Here in the US at least, there tend to be scratch
               | (yellow/green) and non-scratch (blue/darker-blue). Along
               | with straight scratch pad (pure green) and steel wool
               | (silver metal).
               | 
               | You can grind all day with a non-scratch pad, and all
               | you're really polishing with is the harder bits of gunk
               | you've managed to take off.
               | 
               | Same way you can sand with 220 grit all day and barely
               | make a dent, but hit something with 60 grit and make
               | progress in 5 minutes.
               | 
               | Afaik, Barkeeper's Friend is essentially microgrit in
               | some sort of liquid carrier. If you had the right shaped
               | sand, you could probably add that to something and get a
               | similar effect.
        
               | iamacyborg wrote:
               | > Obviously, do not use on cast iron or carbon steel.
               | 
               | Unless your seasoning is flaking off because you followed
               | OP's instructions and you need to start again.
        
               | cpascal wrote:
               | Seconding this. Barkeeper's friend is like magic on
               | aluminum. If you use it regularly you can keep your
               | aluminum pots and pans looking like they're factory new.
        
           | zelon88 wrote:
           | I agree on 95% of this post. I think that's part of the
           | allure of Cast Iron. It's a personal thing where people
           | develop their own methods through experience.
           | 
           | However I try to avoid using soapy chemicals on my cast iron.
           | If I do use soap it's literally one drop onto the scrub brush
           | instead of the pan. Although I'm sure that if you went
           | heavier on the soap nothing would come of it anyway. Most of
           | the time I use water and a scrub brush. I scrub with good
           | speed and not a lot of pressure to break off lingering
           | debris.
           | 
           | And if I'm going to be using it the next day I'll leave it
           | shiny, but if it's going to sit for a couple days I'll leave
           | it on a little longer until it's a little more matte looking.
           | Not 100% matte, but not "shiny" either. Just a sheen. That
           | way it won't be sticky during storage where it will collect
           | dust and contaminants.
        
             | smichel17 wrote:
             | Huh. That's not it at all for me. I like cast iron because:
             | (1) It is extremely durable and can be repaired rather than
             | replaced. (2) It is general purpose, reducing the number of
             | pans I need to own. (3) It is well suited to cooking at low
             | temperatures, which are much more forgiving (I can walk
             | away and write a comment like this and come back to
             | something other than a charred mess).
             | 
             | edit: I discovered cast iron about a year ago and now I do
             | roughly 90% of my cooking on it. If there were reliable,
             | _science-based_ information about how to care for the pan
             | best, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. As an
             | example, a lot of people caution against seasoning with too
             | much oil. They say that when you season your pan (e.g.
             | initially, in the oven), you should wipe the oil off until
             | the pan looks dry. I took this literally, and wiped until
             | it looked the same as before I put on the oil. As a result,
             | my seasoning had approximately no effect. After
             | experimenting, I 've decided that the "looks dry" advice
             | isn't _wrong_ exactly, but  "dry" needs clarification. It
             | should look more like how you would like it to look when it
             | comes out of the oven -- dry, but darker and with more
             | sheen.
        
               | CBLT wrote:
               | Have you tried carbon steel? In my opinion it is superior
               | to cast iron in every way, especially durability.
        
               | leetcrew wrote:
               | as materials, carbon steel and cast iron are extremely
               | similar, except that carbon steel can be stamped rather
               | than cast. in practice, this means that carbon steel
               | skillets tend to be much thinner than cast iron ones.
               | durability would not be an advantage I would attribute to
               | the typical carbon steel skillet. a cast iron skillet is
               | pretty much indestructible; if you drop it from stove-
               | height, it would be more likely to damage your floor than
               | to shatter. a carbon steel skillet can easily warp if you
               | heat it up too quickly, which is not nearly as great a
               | concern with a heavy cast iron skillet.
        
               | petre wrote:
               | I like bith. Carboon steel for the pancake and omlet pan
               | and cast iron for the steak pan. Cast iron has more
               | thermal mass. I should probably also get a cast iron pot
               | for cooking stew.
        
               | smichel17 wrote:
               | Not yet. I plan to at some point.
        
               | zelon88 wrote:
               | I have a Blackstone carbon steel griddle and it is very
               | nice. A little uneven but it gives me areas to keep stuff
               | warm around the outside.
        
               | war1025 wrote:
               | > If there were reliable, science-based information about
               | how to care for the pan best, it would have saved me a
               | lot of trouble
               | 
               | I think the trouble here is that the people who best
               | understand cast iron are probably also the least likely
               | to care about the science of it.
               | 
               | The main reason not to leave too much oil in the pan is
               | that it will go rancid and get sticky and generally
               | gross. That's not something you run up against if you use
               | the pan several times a week, but if you have something
               | like a dutch oven that you use maybe once or twice a
               | month, you will come back to a mess that you have to deal
               | with before you can cook in it.
               | 
               | The whole "you're making a polymer coating that mimics a
               | teflon pan" idea is something that sounds fancy, but is
               | impractical and unnecessary in practice.
        
               | smichel17 wrote:
               | > I think the trouble here is that the people who best
               | understand cast iron are probably also the least likely
               | to care about the science of it.
               | 
               | Hmm. Perhaps. I said _science-based information_ because
               | while I find the science (chemistry, polymerization, etc)
               | of cast iron interesting, I primarily care about the
               | results. For example, knowing that flax oil gives the
               | non-stickiest finish but is prone to flaking and thus
               | high maintenance. Perhaps _empirical_ would have been a
               | better word than _science-based_. I suspect there are a
               | fair number of people like me, who would like to know
               | more about the trade-offs involved in different oils and
               | maintenance procedures. But perhaps these aren 't the
               | people who _best_ understand cast iron, as you say.
               | 
               | Two things of note:
               | 
               | - The best answer in the FAQ in the top comment of this
               | thread, _by FAR_ , is #2, about heat spreading. It gives
               | numbers and additional information (about radiating the
               | heat) that I didn't know before.
               | 
               | - Flax is the only oil that I understand even some of the
               | trade-offs of using. That is a direct result of the post
               | linked in this thread publicly making a hypothesis and
               | providing detailed-enough steps for (some people) to
               | reproduce its results.
               | 
               | Speaking of, as a cast iron enthusiast, would you be
               | willing to share your experiences and/or do some
               | experiments to help test my hypothesis on cleaning
               | methods, here?
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25716850
        
           | GordonS wrote:
           | So I understand correctly, do you mean to wash it after every
           | (most) uses, and apply a little oil after washing? No need to
           | bake in the oven or anything like that?
        
             | jasallen wrote:
             | If you're trying to add a little more seasoning you will
             | need to bake. You'd do this after a rough cleaning or
             | cooking something watery or acidic. If you're just
             | protecting it from ambient moisture just a teensy coat.
        
             | war1025 wrote:
             | > No need to bake in the oven or anything like that?
             | 
             | Correct.
             | 
             | I will sometimes do the oil and bake thing for our Dutch
             | oven if it has been neglected a while and has bits of rust
             | or other questionable-ness to it.
        
           | blueline wrote:
           | Totally agree except that onion flavored pancakes can be
           | delicious.
           | 
           | Scallion pancake with pork belly is one of my favorite combos
           | :-)
        
             | tharkun__ wrote:
             | Absolutely correct. There are many usually sweet recipes
             | that are actually great when done savoury instead. I
             | personally like it when the last thing I made in the pan
             | was something that had onion and then I gotta make
             | pancakes, precisely because the first pancake will have
             | that flavor. Then I put chorizo and cheese on it too and
             | call it a day. Next pancake will be 'normal' again anyway.
             | Win-Win!
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | I'm a huge fan of savory fried any-cake (e.g. hoecakes,
               | [0]). Just because something is normally made one way is
               | no reason to limit ourselves.
               | 
               | You can make sweet or savory crepes, so why not pancakes?
               | 
               | But then, I'm not a big fan of actual-cake and don't have
               | much of a sweet tooth.
               | 
               | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnycake
        
           | blincoln wrote:
           | > You want oil soaked into the metal.
           | 
           | Is there solid evidence that this is actually possible, as
           | opposed to creating a layer on top of it? The only people
           | I've ever heard suggest that it's possible were talking about
           | cast iron pans, and it's always struck me as the sort of
           | thing that would have major implications for a lot of other
           | fields.
           | 
           | I tried some web searches before posting this, still not
           | finding anything suggesting it's possible other than cast
           | iron pan aficionados.
        
             | BikiniPrince wrote:
             | Yes, this isn't a mystery. There are lots of coated steel
             | products that use the crudest of coatings that need grinder
             | off. Unless the material is polished to a high shine it
             | will absorb oil.
        
             | ethbr0 wrote:
             | Yuan, Z., Xiao, J., Wang, C. et al. Preparation of a
             | superamphiphobic surface on a common cast iron substrate. J
             | Coat Technol Res 8, 773 (2011).
             | https://doi.org/10.1007/s11998-011-9365-7
             | 
             | I don't have a subscription or SciHub link to pull up the
             | underlying, but it looks like there have been folks who did
             | electron microscopy on seasoned cast iron. (Note: more
             | relevant and profitable to study in the context of
             | machinery / engine design)
        
             | gorgoiler wrote:
             | Tangential but related: Oilite:
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilite
        
             | war1025 wrote:
             | > Is there solid evidence that this is actually possible,
             | as opposed to creating a layer on top of it?
             | 
             | I doubt that's actually what happens, but if you think of
             | it that way, you'll end up with the right result.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | "Soak into" is probably an engineering approximation
               | converted to lay language.
               | 
               | What we're really talking about is surface-gap-filling.
               | 
               | So yes, "into" at some level of magnification. "Onto" at
               | another.
        
               | BikiniPrince wrote:
               | Indeed! I was avoiding describing the surfaces at high
               | detail .
        
           | neild wrote:
           | The main thing I've learned that most advice about seasoning
           | pans doesn't tell you is that how you use the pan to cook
           | matters more than how well seasoned it is. Cast iron is
           | really forgiving of seasoning, you don't need the perfect job
           | to cook with it.
           | 
           | However, cast iron will never be as non-stick as a good non-
           | stick pan, and if you treat it as one, you're going to have a
           | bad time.
           | 
           | Put bacon in a dry, hot pan, and it'll leave crispy fond
           | stuck to the pan. (Nothing you do will ever create fond in a
           | non-stick pan.) Cook bacon starting with a cold pan, and
           | enough fat will render by the time it heats to keep it from
           | sticking.
           | 
           | Eggs will stick to cold, dry cast iron. Fry eggs in a
           | moderately hot pan with plenty of grease. I had the devil of
           | a time with fried eggs until I realized I wasn't letting the
           | pan heat enough. Also, it's very easy to burn butter in a
           | cast iron pan; use a more forgiving fat like bacon grease or
           | a neutral oil.
           | 
           | Cast iron behaves differently than non-stick or stainless
           | steel. Different heat density, different emissivity. Just
           | like any other cookware, you need to learn how to work with
           | it; it's not just a matter of getting the magical perfect
           | seasoning and pretending it's Teflon.
        
             | sk5t wrote:
             | While you can eventually develop a very non-stick surface
             | with cast iron or carbon steel, there's also the option to
             | make a "spanish egg" with a medium amount of hot oil; e.g.
             | https://youtu.be/mL-w_OegewU?t=215
        
             | captainredbeard wrote:
             | Keeping an IR thermometer by the stovetop is handy if
             | you're cooking with cast iron. It removes the guess work
             | around things like "Am I going to burn this butter if I
             | drop it in the pan?"
        
               | colechristensen wrote:
               | Putting a drop of water on the pan is a good indicator of
               | temperature. It will either sit there in a small puddle,
               | wander around a bit, or zoom around in a frenzy.
        
               | lmeyerov wrote:
               | for most medium/high, when an oiled pan, you can see the
               | super faint smoke. for some oiled, even based on the
               | viscosity from shaking the pan. water test is good for
               | learning this point. but water in an oily pan can hurt
               | later so good to learn to do without :)
               | 
               | some startups have been experimenting with built-in
               | thermometers, so I can imagine this classic design being
               | different 10yr from now :)
        
           | Yetanfou wrote:
           | I use only cast iron, always cook on a wood-burning stove.
           | The way I season pans is simple, I just put the thing on a
           | medium fire, dab some canola oil on it, rub it in, wipe it
           | off, repeat this once or twice after which I just use it with
           | enough oil (canola or olive). I clean them by rinsing them
           | while hot with cold water which starts boiling immediately,
           | wipe them with some paper and put them away. As long as
           | they're kept dry they don't need reseasoning. No fancy oils
           | needed, no special rituals, just use them regularly and
           | that's it.
        
           | GordonS wrote:
           | Forgot to ask in my other comment, does all this apply for
           | carbon steel too?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | atombender wrote:
             | Pretty much, yes: https://www.seriouseats.com/2019/06/how-
             | to-season-carbon-ste...
        
             | leetcrew wrote:
             | general consensus on reddit (and my personal experience)
             | seems to be that seasoning on carbon steel is a bit more
             | delicate than on cast iron, possibly because carbon steel
             | skillets tend to have a much smoother surface.
             | 
             | chemically, carbon steel is very similar to cast iron, so
             | all the info regarding cleaning is still applicable. you
             | should probably expect to do a little more work to maintain
             | the seasoning on a carbon steel pan though.
        
           | aksss wrote:
           | > no one wants onion-flavoured pancakes
           | 
           | :/
        
         | axaxs wrote:
         | Agree with everything except the oil. I use Avocado a lot for
         | cooking but not on a brand new pan. I've certainly tried to
         | season with it specifically when I was new, but find it flaky
         | and cumbersome.
         | 
         | I find fatty meats(bacon, sausage) or just canned lard to work
         | absolutely best for seasoning. It's also what our ancestors
         | used before they probably even knew what an avocado was. For a
         | vegan, I'd assume shortening is ok as well, but I've never
         | actually tested that.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Rather than soap, I use a pampered chef plastic scraper (It's
         | for stone ware; don't know any other name for it), and a
         | stainless steel scouring pad (not steel wool; instead it's
         | coils of flat stainless steel tape or something). The scraper
         | removes the bulk of stuff, keeping the scouring pad clean.
         | 
         | This is less effort than using soap, and more effective. The
         | stainless smooths out any imperfections that form in the
         | seasoning over time, and cooking with oil continuously
         | reseasons it.
         | 
         | I found that I had to re-season my pans every 5-10 years if I
         | used soap, and that the seasoning was an inferior cooking
         | surface (more food stuck to it). With the technique I described
         | above, I can cook eggs and they don't stick. (be sure to
         | preheat, use plenty of oil, and then don't touch for a minute
         | or two at the beginning of cooking)
        
         | beervirus wrote:
         | I did it once. Flaked like crazy. Never again.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | I read somewhere a year or two ago that basically compared
           | cast iron to wood, which has helped my intuition of things a
           | lot.
           | 
           | Here is a blog post [0] I read a few months ago about wood
           | finishes. I think the following applies just as much to cast
           | iron as to the wood he is talking about:                 So,
           | when I choose a finish, I ignore the industry-standard
           | scratch and adhesion tests. Instead, I separate finishes into
           | two buckets:            1.   Finishes that look incredible
           | immediately but look like crap in 20 years (the short-run
           | finishes) vs. finishes that look incredible when worn/abused
           | (the long-run finishes).            2.   Finishes that want
           | me dead vs. finishes that I can apply while buck naked.
           | 
           | Basically I would equate Polyurethane with Teflon, and
           | furniture oil with cooking oil.
           | 
           | Teflon will be great to cook on initially. As soon as it gets
           | damaged, it will be hard to fix without stripping and redoing
           | everything.
           | 
           | Oil will take more maintenance over time, but if it starts
           | looking bad, you just put a bit more on. That's exactly how
           | you should treat cast iron as well.
           | 
           | The trouble people run into is they try to use oil to create
           | a teflon surface. That's not what it's for.
           | 
           | [0] https://blog.lostartpress.com/2020/11/30/rip-the-
           | anarchists-...
        
       | idlewords wrote:
       | Just here to give a shout-out to any other people on this site
       | who scrub their cast iron with soap and water after each use and
       | live their lives in peace. I'm a high-octane computer
       | professional and I don't have the time or predisposition to
       | coddle large lumps of metal in the pursuit of an effect ("it
       | doesn't stick!") that can be achieved by using cooking oil.
        
       | war1025 wrote:
       | How to season cast iron:
       | 
       | Cook with it. Use oil / fat.
       | 
       | Honestly, cast iron is about the most forgiving cooking surface
       | you will find. People love to make it more difficult than it is.
       | 
       | Edit:
       | 
       | Some additional tips on cast iron:
       | 
       | Setting 4 / 10 (slightly below medium) is the default heat
       | setting, and you have to really have something specific in mind
       | to ever go above 5. I find that people who are used to teflon
       | pans like to go up into the medium-high range. Things don't end
       | well up there with cast iron.
       | 
       | Also buy a metal spatula. You aren't going to hurt anything, and
       | it will be a more satisfying cooking experience. Plastic + cast
       | iron is just going to leave you with a melted spatula. There used
       | to be a ubiquitous metal spatula design, but I can never find
       | them anymore. I've found it is much better to use something small
       | like a cake / bar server than something big like a grilling
       | spatula.
       | 
       | Don't cook on cold cast iron. The trick my mom showed me is you
       | always wait until a splash of water (get your fingers wet and
       | flick it on the pan) will start boiling on contact. If it boils
       | into nothing immediately, you are too hot. If it just sits there
       | and does nothing, you aren't hot enough yet.
        
         | walshemj wrote:
         | That my view - a quick dip in warm water with a bit of soap and
         | lightly whip of any bits and let it dry.
         | 
         | Ill try the water test next time
        
         | SoSoRoCoCo wrote:
         | > Also buy a metal spatula.
         | 
         | Without sharp corners. You will cut the polymerization layer
         | otherwise, if not careful.
         | 
         | > Don't cook on cold cast iron.
         | 
         | You literally can't cook on cold metal. :)
         | 
         | Dancing water is too hot for some things, IMHO, like eggs. Once
         | it is that hot I'm past the point of good eggs.
         | 
         | I put the oil in and bring it up slowly until the oil runs
         | faster than cold oil, but way, way, way before the smoke point.
         | I like my eggs to have zero brown crisp, so I use low temps and
         | a good olive oil. Also have to use fresh eggs so that the white
         | doesn't spread more the 4-5". On a good day with good eggs if
         | I'm paying attention, I get a perfecty-set white with no brown
         | crisp, and a slow-run yolk with no cooked bits, and after one
         | quick flip to the top to sear the yolk. Perfection.
        
         | kova12 wrote:
         | Dollar stores are still carrying metal spatulas
        
         | hansthehorse wrote:
         | My cast iron set is 20 years old now and used almost every day.
         | One thing cast iron isn't good for is when you have to change
         | temps mid cooking. If doing something that needs mid heat then
         | going to low heat cast iron will fail you as it won't go to the
         | lower heat easily.
         | 
         | When oiling the pans take the time to try to wipe out all the
         | oil you applied. This leaves just a tiny layer of oil and your
         | pans won't get sticky. I clean with diluted Dawn and a sponge -
         | dry on burner - then oil / wipe out each use.
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | > Setting 4 / 10 (slightly below medium) is the default heat
         | setting, and you have to really have something specific in mind
         | to ever go above 5
         | 
         | Do you do any chinese cooking with a carbon steel wok?
         | 
         | For stir frying you _generally_ want things as hot as you can
         | get them. I only have a Teflon wok, and my biggest problem with
         | it is that it just doesn 't get hot enough. The other problem
         | is that Teflon really doesn't like very high temperatures, so
         | I'm lucky if a wok lasts a year before bits are peeling off.
         | I've always been put off a carbon steel wok though, because of
         | all the faffing about with seasoning, but reading some of the
         | comments here it might be simpler just to wash and oil it after
         | every use.
        
           | adrianN wrote:
           | Heating Teflon to high temperatures and preparing food on it
           | is a good way to get Teflon into your bloodstream.
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever
        
             | cbsmith wrote:
             | You have to get to _really_ high temperatures though. Like
             | over 300 Celsius.
        
               | p1necone wrote:
               | A stovetop cranked high should be able to achieve that
               | though shouldn't it? Not something you can discount
               | entirely.
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | We have a Lodge cast iron wok [0].
           | 
           | That said, I don't know that I'd recommend it to anyone as we
           | rarely use it.
           | 
           | I read somewhere that unless you have a commercial-grade gas
           | range, you are unlikely to hit the temperatures needed to
           | really properly cook with a thinner metal wok. Cast iron is
           | supposed to be a bit of a compromise because it can hold the
           | heat better, but you can't toss it around the way you would
           | with a normal wok.
           | 
           | As to carbon steel, I'd say go for it. I think you'll find it
           | a lot less fussy than you have been told.
           | 
           | Also, I'd say stir fry definitely qualifies under the
           | "something specific" where you would want to use the high
           | heat settings on the stove.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.lodgecastiron.com/product/cast-iron-
           | wok?sku=P14W...
        
         | cascom wrote:
         | Agreed, would add just don't scrub off your seasoning with
         | soap/scouring pad.
        
           | SteveNuts wrote:
           | Soap is fine anytime, scouring pad is never fine unless
           | you're deliberately trying to scrub off the seasoning for
           | some reason.
        
           | taeric wrote:
           | Meanwhile, I have a chain cloth that I use when cleaning to
           | make sure no food is left behind. Remarkably hard to actually
           | get the seasoning off.
           | 
           | Granted, if you still use soap that warrants the use of heavy
           | plastic gloves, probably a bit easier.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | Agreed.
         | 
         | The advantage of cast iron is that you just cook on it and over
         | time (if it isn't already seasoned) it seasons itself. That's
         | all there has to be to it... fussing over how you season it and
         | then throwing whatever food in there seems a little silly.
         | 
         | I cook a great deal and once in a while it's time to scrape
         | down (often because I made a big mess in the pan) the cast iron
         | pan and 'start over'.
         | 
         | My starting over just means ... I clean it thoroughly, oil it a
         | bit when I cook on it the next time. That's it. Pretty quickly
         | it will be plenty seasoned.
         | 
         | If folks want to take a deep dive into seasoning their cast
         | iron pan in a complicated fashion, awesome, but it's really not
         | necessarily.
        
         | grenoire wrote:
         | Carbon steel gang here, I just cook with it, if the coat flakes
         | then I just keep cooking with it. Run under hot water when I'm
         | done, scraping with a dish brush.
         | 
         | I don't see the point to the perfect coating; occasionally
         | using it in the oven already gets you to the perfect slick
         | season.
        
           | RamRodification wrote:
           | My dish brush gets really yucky with this method (not using
           | dish soap). Greasy and soot:y. Do you just not care about
           | this issue or do you spend some time cleaning it afterwards?
        
             | chipsa wrote:
             | I usually scrap my cast iron with a plastic scraper before
             | I start with the dish brush. Soap and warm water help too,
             | while you're doing the initial scrape.
        
             | alliao wrote:
             | i chuck it in the dishwasher, comes out brand new! try it.
             | It'd even "reanneal" the plastic if that's the right term
             | lol. The bent brushes will return to it's virgin position,
             | try it!
        
         | iamacyborg wrote:
         | > If it boils into nothing immediately, you are too hot. If it
         | just sits there and does nothing, you aren't hot enough yet.
         | 
         | That is actually slightly misleading due to the Leidenfrost
         | effect.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leidenfrost_effect
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | It could be, but in practice I've found that you can tell the
           | difference between "too hot" and "still cold" very easily.
        
           | chipsa wrote:
           | A drop of water affected by the Leidenfrost effect looks
           | different from one in a too cold pan.
           | 
           | If I'm doing something that requires a ripping hot pan, one
           | that's actually hot enough for the Leidenfrost effect is
           | where I am for. This usually requires that I use a high smoke
           | point oil, like refined peanut oil.
        
         | derekp7 wrote:
         | I find that my skillet comes out really nice when I make a
         | batch of cornbread. You grease it real good and get it hot
         | before pouring in the batter, and during cooking the right
         | amount is absorbed by the cornbread. This leaves behind a hard
         | slick surface.
        
         | mindcrime wrote:
         | _Cook with it._
         | 
         | Exactly. No reason at all for all of these crazy rituals
         | involving 42 different kinds of oil (2 or 3 of which are made
         | of Unobtanium anyway), ovens, salt, baking soda, owl urine,
         | black cats, graveyard dirt, the Necronomicon, or whatever other
         | weird shit people are throwing out there. Just cook with the
         | darn thing. I don't know why people feel the need to
         | overcomplicate this.
        
         | Spinnaker_ wrote:
         | It takes months of continuous use to develop a great seasoning
         | by just cooking. Or you can accomplish the same in an
         | afternoon.
        
           | war1025 wrote:
           | The youtube algorithm decided it needed to recommend a whole
           | hose of cast iron videos to me over Christmas and they kept
           | repeating this.
           | 
           | So I went and washed my skillet down to a matte surface,
           | rubbed oil into it, and cooked an egg. Worked perfectly fine.
           | 
           | You won't ever get the "slippery" coating like with a teflon
           | pan, but I also find cooking on that type of surface to be
           | absolutely maddening since any time you try to chop or scoop
           | in such a pan, the food just slides out from under you and
           | you have to chase it about.
           | 
           | I want my food to "not stick" in the same way that a book
           | doesn't stick to a table. I don't want an ice rink.
        
         | fideloper wrote:
         | Completely agree. My "pre-seasoned" cast iron from Target was
         | the best purchase I ever made.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | I've always wondered why other seasoned heavy metals aren't used
       | in cookware? I know they would be ultra-expensive, but they would
       | also be nearly invincible to daily wear and tear; and they should
       | last for generations.
        
         | travis_brooks wrote:
         | Cheap cast iron pans are basically invincible and can last for
         | generations
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | Carbon steel is pretty popular
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | This is a great example of a topic that has been taken over by
       | "internet experts"
       | 
       | Talk about over-complicating the treatment of cookware that has
       | been around for hundreds of years.
       | 
       | I have about 8 pieces of cast iron cookware, but I really only
       | use one: my grandmothers pan. It's not a fancy brand, it's 65
       | years old, and it just works.
       | 
       | My mother never used it because "it was hard to clean and heavy".
       | 
       | Use a little oil with it and stuff doesn't really stick. I can
       | cook lbs of bacon, make steaks, bake a whole chicken, sliced
       | potatoes, make gravy, put an apple cobbler in the oven...
       | 
       | I use a metal spatula to scrape anything off (after boiling some
       | water in it to loosen it up), or a lodge plastic scraper, and
       | scrub it lightly with a sponge and a bit of dish soap. Don't put
       | it away wet. It's simple.
        
         | girzel wrote:
         | > I use a metal spatula to scrape anything off (after boiling
         | some water in it to loosen it up), or a lodge plastic scraper,
         | and scrub it lightly with a sponge and a bit of dish soap.
         | Don't put it away wet. It's simple.
         | 
         | This is pretty much what I do, except I use a nylon brush
         | instead of the scraper - same deal. I think the boiling water
         | and brush are perfect because they leave just the right amount
         | of oil still on the pan.
        
       | niccl wrote:
       | If you're interested in the science of cooking, I heartily
       | recommend 'On Food and Cooking' by Harold McGee. Also his website
       | https://www.curiouscook.com has interesting stuff
       | 
       | The book changed the way I cook (for the better!)
        
       | systemvoltage wrote:
       | I find these how-tos boggling. It's not that difficult to season
       | cast iron cookware. Just cook on it. Same thing with soldering -
       | there are countless videos of people teaching others on how to
       | solder. If you can wear clothes that morning, you can solder.
       | 
       | Also, what if I told you its ok to use soap on cast iron pans?
       | The hardened coating isn't prone to soap interaction. It removes
       | all the grime and gives you a clean non-stick surface if you use
       | soap.
       | 
       | I blame all this on hipster culture which is based on nothing but
       | making things more complicated than it should be, getting
       | viewership and generally misleading people into thinking
       | something is more difficult that it really is. In turn, making
       | people spend more money on useless shit that they don't need.
        
         | war1025 wrote:
         | > If you can wear clothes that morning, you can solder.
         | 
         | I got a good kick out of this.
        
       | kemitchell wrote:
       | I tried flax oil on some pans for a couple years. It didn't work
       | out well. One cheap pan I gave away. All the rest I've stripped
       | and reseasoned.
       | 
       | Vegetable oil works fine. Shortening works fine. Don't overthink
       | this.
        
       | simonboulton wrote:
       | Well, I bought a cast iron skillet about 40 years ago at a local
       | department store (remember them?). Can't remember seasoning it,
       | but probably did way back in the day. I just wash it out with hot
       | water and a bit of liquid soap and a scourer to remove the
       | occasional bits. As good as teflon, cheaper and less poisonous.
       | My favourite pan. I think the main thing is to use it a lot, and
       | don't overclean it. The type of oil seems not to have mattered
       | much, but it's mainly olive, sunflower or rapeseed. As always
       | YMMV.
        
       | taivare wrote:
       | I use a bamboo wok scrubber for cleaning built up debris on my
       | carbon steel pan ( cowboy pan ) may be as old as late 1800's it's
       | at least from the early 1900's. I can't find this type of wok
       | scrubber anymore . . if anyone knows where they sell them?
        
         | mod wrote:
         | Can you take a picture of it?
        
       | cascom wrote:
       | Get a metal chain mail pot scrubber, it will change your life.
       | Allows you to dislodge 95% of what's stuck to your pan quickly
       | and without a super abrasive cleaner, the rest can usually be
       | taken care of with a paper towel.
        
         | gilrain wrote:
         | "metal chain mail pot scrubber" ... "without a super abrasive
         | cleaner"
         | 
         | Um.
        
           | smichel17 wrote:
           | Chain mail scrubbers are not very abrasive. This is because
           | the links are rounded. As an extreme example, imagine trying
           | to scrape off gunk with the rounded back of a spoon. I've
           | used mine (gently!!) on teflon with no damage.
        
       | giardini wrote:
       | Blog spam for cast iron cookware periodically appears here and on
       | other forums. Following you will encounter (if you continue here)
       | a seemingly-endless thread of posts from people claiming to have
       | "no problem" with their cast-iron cookware (e.g., "Just rustled
       | up a dozen eggs for my family using my granny's cast-iron skillet
       | from Custer's cooking wagon at Little Big Horn. Wipes clean with
       | a washrag!"). Best to ignore them. This posting pattern will
       | repeat about twice each year.
       | 
       | Buy a cheap teflon skillet at your local store. When it becomes
       | worn and no longer operates flawlessly then buy a new one. Never
       | pay $17 for 17 oz. of "flaxseed oil" that becomes rancid two
       | months later. Save hours of time cooking and cleaning!
       | 
       | Best of all, avoid buying a cast-iron boat anchor that you will
       | endlessly _try_ to  "season". "Try" is all you'll do, b/c
       | _nobody_ knows really what a  "properly seasoned* cast-iron pan
       | is (i.e., there is no science here, folks). If you own cast-iron
       | cookware, throw it away and move into the 21st century: get
       | teflon pans.
       | 
       | Cast-iron cookware is a sucker's purchase suitable for only one
       | scenario: old cowboy movies depicting cattle drives.
        
         | permo-w wrote:
         | Seems like you're really quite desperate for people to buy pans
         | covered in a probable carcinogen that, as you note, slowly rubs
         | off into your food
         | 
         | Rather like someone trying really hard to get me to fire-proof
         | my house with asbestos
        
         | vkou wrote:
         | I can't disagree more strongly.
         | 
         | I paid $40 for a cast iron pan a decade ago. I clean it with
         | water, and scrubbing a metal spatula. I don't do any black
         | magic to season it. I use it for cooking almost everything...
         | And I'll never touch teflon, because of health concerns with
         | it.
         | 
         | The only stuff that sticks to my pan is food that I burned into
         | it, because I had the heat too high. A sharp scrape with a
         | metal spatula gets it off.
        
         | na85 wrote:
         | >Cast-iron cookware is a sucker's purchase
         | 
         | Gotta disagree with you there. Cast iron is great for dishes
         | that you want to sear, or that you want to finish in the oven
         | or under a broiler. Searing on most stainless pans doesn't work
         | nearly as well because the metal doesn't retain its heat as
         | zealously, and if you whack your little teflon pan in the oven
         | you'll ruin it.
         | 
         | Sure, there's a lot of mythology around how to season the pans
         | and how you need to baby them, etc. That's all BS. The "secret"
         | is to cook on your pan regularly, using a little more
         | oil/butter than you would on teflon, and don't let your pan
         | soak in soapy water.
         | 
         | If you scrape away the memes and the hype on blogs and on
         | reddit from astroturfing accounts they're dependable, versatile
         | cookware and they're not particularly expensive. What's not to
         | like?
        
         | xKingfisher wrote:
         | A lodge cast iron pan will last forever and isn't that
         | expensive. And maintenance isn't terribly hard. Just rub down
         | with oil after using (I use plain canola) and keep it dry.
         | Serious eats has a lot of information on this. Modern soaps
         | make the whole thing much easier.
         | 
         | For some people Teflon isn't an option. Bird owners for example
         | can't use pans with PTFE coatings, cooking with them releases a
         | compound that is toxic to parrots.
        
           | giardini wrote:
           | Pretty desperate move there, warning bird owners!
           | 
           | OK, for the bird owners: buy a stainless steel skillet and
           | use it until your bird dies. _Then_ buy a teflon skillet.
        
         | kleinsch wrote:
         | Blog spam for hammers appears here all the time. Best to ignore
         | it.
         | 
         | Buy a cheap screwdriver from Home Depot. If it breaks, buy
         | another one.
        
       | NikolaeVarius wrote:
       | I've never quite understood how something that is supposed to be
       | "don't give a shit", became something that hipsters/whoever gives
       | many shits about.
        
         | leetcrew wrote:
         | it's important to understand that pretty much anything useful
         | can also be someone's hobby. I don't really understand the
         | pursuit of the perfect cast iron skillet either. I just want to
         | cook some eggs. at the same time, I don't expect people to
         | understand why I spend hours trying to find the lowest stable
         | voltage for a 300 MHz overclock. if you just want to use the
         | damn thing, ignore the hobbyists.
        
       | mymythisisthis wrote:
       | I never season my pans. Use soap, water, and aluminium foil (if
       | food is baked on) to clean them. Dry in the oven to prevent rust.
       | 
       | A couple of times after I made eggs, I let the water sit for too
       | long, and the pan got a bit rusty. No problem with cast iron!
       | Just a bit of steel wool and it was as good as new.
       | 
       | A cast iron pan is the easiest pan you'll ever use.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | If curious see also
       | 
       | 2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15915502
       | 
       | 2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8611468
        
       | joshribakoff wrote:
       | Anecdotally I find soap strips the seasoning. When food gets
       | stuck to the pan, it also technically becomes part of the pan in
       | the sense the atoms of the food become bonded with the atoms of
       | the pan, just like how seasoning technically becomes part of the
       | pan.
       | 
       | When you use soap and put copious amounts of oil, and wait for
       | the heat to release the food, of course it's possible to cook,
       | because the oil forms a barrier between the pan and food. You're
       | basically creating a half assed seasoning layer
       | 
       | However the notion that soap can unstick bonded food atoms but
       | doesn't also unstick bonded polymers is an oxymoron. You can
       | still use soap, just know it will strip food and seasoning both.
       | Even using metal scrubbers and metal utensils can strip the
       | seasoning, in my experience, which is why I re-season frequently.
       | Anecdotally acidic foods strip large amounts of seasoning,
       | happened just the other day with taco seasoning for me.
       | 
       | I can definitely tell the difference between a good seasoning
       | layer and a layer of oil simply poured. It's better for the
       | cooking process and better for the flavor to "properly" season in
       | my subjective experience
        
         | chipsa wrote:
         | You don't want bits of food stuck to the pan. Bits of food
         | still stuck to the pan go bad. The oil that sticks as part of
         | seasoning has much smaller molecules as it polymerizes, so you
         | don't have bits of stuff that goes bad. If it comes up with
         | soap, it's not bonded to the pan.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | alliao wrote:
       | Yeah it's not needed, here's what I do after watching Cantonese
       | cooks treat theirs.
       | 
       | Just buy this (obviously not at that price).
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Sunrise-Kitchen-Supply-SYNCHKG102693-...
       | 
       | After cooking, while the cast iron is still hot, give it as
       | little water as possible and just scrub all the food off.
       | 
       | rinse with plenty of water, by the end of cleaning it'd still be
       | warm.
       | 
       | wipe dry then put it back on the stove I still use electric stove
       | so it's still warm by then and residual heat will dry it.
       | 
       | Never needed to season... I use mostly lard/olive oil. Vegetable
       | oil tends to leave a really nasty sludge that's really hard to
       | clean so I stopped using them.
        
       | qpiox wrote:
       | How is flaxseed oil different from linseed oil, when flax and lin
       | seeds are in fact the same thing.
        
       | nightfly wrote:
       | > Some recommend bacon drippings since lard is no longer readily
       | available
       | 
       | Lard might not be _popular_ anymore, but it's definitely readily
       | available (for cheap!).
        
       | tedivm wrote:
       | All of the castiron geeks say Flaxseed oil but from experience I
       | can tell you it doesn't work great- eventually you get chipping
       | in your seasoning. I ended up stripping my seasoning and redoing
       | it using crisco which has given me the best results so far.
        
       | Exuma wrote:
       | This is wrong, as someone very heavily invested in carbon
       | skillets and iron skillets, people in the "seasoning community"
       | (lol) literally hate this article because it spreads so much
       | disinformation about flaxseed oil.
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | Seasoning seems to be the "all-natural" alternative for non-stick
       | pans. However, have there been any studies on the substances
       | typically produced and if they are dangerous long term?
       | 
       | It seems like taking and bunch of long chain fats, heating them
       | up to high temperatures in cycles and then cooking all sorts of
       | foods in that has a chance of producing carcinogenic molecules.
       | 
       | For the synthetic non-stick pans we have studies of their
       | biological effects. I don't think we have any studies for the
       | patina that results from seasoning.
        
       | randallsquared wrote:
       | I ruined the finish on a cast iron last year by burning some
       | steak pretty badly. I spent a couple hours total mechanically
       | stripping the char. I read this article. I bought the flax oil.
       | 
       | I kept putting off actually doing it. Why?
       | 
       | It's gonna smoke. I have a small one bedroom apartment.
       | 
       | It's gonna take an hour of baking and two hours of cooling for
       | each coat.
       | 
       | It's gonna need at least six coats. Just the time investment
       | seemed insane on a one-pan scale: 18 hours of oven use, plus
       | applying the coats, plus a risk of starting over if something she
       | thinks is obvious wasn't mentioned (this happens to me quite a
       | lot, since "Reality Has a Surprising Amount of Detail"...).
       | 
       | A pre-seasoned replacement cast iron pan is like $50.
       | 
       | I bought a dutch oven cast iron set and donated the old pan to
       | whomever picked it up in the waste room of my building, with a
       | note on it.
        
         | pantalaimon wrote:
         | Just use a bit more oil next time you use it and let it soak in
         | a bit.
         | 
         | There is absolutely no reason to micro-optimize cast iron pans,
         | they are great because they are pretty much indestructible.
        
           | randallsquared wrote:
           | I am skeptical that more oil would have taken out the burnt
           | odor/flavor next time I used it, but I didn't try, for sure.
        
       | nsxwolf wrote:
       | Why do mine never come out black?
        
       | joshu wrote:
       | I was under the impression that flaxseed oil for seasoning is a
       | bit of a fashion thing and that it tends to chip easily. I use
       | grapeseed oil.
        
       | SeanLuke wrote:
       | There's basically no science in this "science-based how-to".
       | 
       | This was the article which started the flaxseed oil cast-iron
       | fad. I think that has now faded: apparently flaxseed oil has a
       | tendency to deteriorate and flake off over time.
        
         | adamors wrote:
         | I can confirm, I've tried flaxseed (based on this article and
         | other ancedata) and while the seasoning came out really nice
         | after 6 months or so it has started to flake and after a year
         | it looks really bad.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | markgall wrote:
           | Agreed. This article started a fad when it came out 10 years
           | ago, and now everybody agrees flaxseed oil is a bad choice,
           | "science-based" as this may claim to be.
        
           | mcguire wrote:
           | How the heck do you get a thick enough layer to flake off?
        
         | hindsightbias wrote:
         | This seasoning fad is some post-teflon madness IMO, after weeks
         | of trying a dozen odd formulas there was always someone with
         | another oil or temperature setting. Might as well be working on
         | inertial confinement.
        
         | sk5t wrote:
         | Indeed, no science at all here--only conjecture.
        
         | macksd wrote:
         | Yes it seems like a very flawed assumption to assume that the
         | other uses of linseed oil would make flaxseed oil a perfect
         | candidate. I've never tried it. Personally I just use canola
         | oil but it can leave a sticky residue as the author says. It
         | lessens if I heat it for a longer time, but I just store it
         | wrapped in a cloth anyway.
        
         | mtalantikite wrote:
         | Agreed, please don't season with flaxseed oil -- it doesn't
         | last. Obsession over the smoke point is unfounded, you just
         | want polymerization and carbonization, which any unsaturated
         | fat coated in a thin layer will do for your cast iron.
         | 
         | I did the flaxseed thing when this blog post came out some
         | years back and ended up having to redo my seasoning on the
         | couple pans I tried it on. The seasoning easily flaked off.
         | Just use canola oil and call it a day.
        
         | smichel17 wrote:
         | There's basically no science -- in the broad sense of
         | hypothesis testing -- around cast iron _at all_. It 's all
         | tribal knowledge. "I do it this way because that's how my
         | grandma did it and it works for me." That's fine enough, but it
         | makes for a frustrating experience as a newcomer with no way to
         | evaluate the credibility of different sources; it's just
         | everyone's word against everyone else.
         | 
         | This is especially confusing given how long cast iron has been
         | around; you'd think that someone would have taken an interest
         | in cataloguing what actually works, by now.
         | 
         | So while this post may not be good science, or very much of it,
         | I still appreciate that it exists.
        
           | taeric wrote:
           | I think the confounder is that cast iron is just rather
           | resilient and cooking is dominated by other choices and
           | technologies. Such that much of what folks think were needed
           | just didn't matter.
           | 
           | The page linked in another top comment is worth reading in
           | full.
        
       | iratewizard wrote:
       | > I followed your directions to the letter using flak-seed oil
       | and several coats done in the oven and yesterday when attempting
       | to cook eggs, they stuck terribly. Please advise.
       | 
       | Does anyone successfully cook eggs in cast iron?
        
         | kd0amg wrote:
         | After trying this flaxseed thing, I could get an egg to skate
         | around in the pan while frying in a small amount of oil. In the
         | long term, it's still more hassle than I want with all the
         | flaking.
        
         | mod wrote:
         | I cook eggs most every day in cast iron without it sticking.
         | 
         | It's a vintage Wagner pan, from when they used to mill flat the
         | cooking surface. Modern lodge has a porous surface from the
         | cast.
         | 
         | Anyway I just cook them in butter, they basically float. I
         | think they would slide across the pan if I tilted it. I'm
         | cooking them fried/"over medium"
        
         | xenocyon wrote:
         | Yes. A well-used pan is quite non-stick. In my anecdotal
         | experience, immediately after stripping/seasoning is not the
         | best time; it gets better after a few weeks of use as more
         | oil/fat bonds to the surface after repeated use.
         | 
         | If you find your pan is too sticky: use lots of oil/fat, cook
         | at medium temperature (not too cool nor too hot), and be
         | patient for a couple weeks; the problem will sort itself out,
         | and eventually you'll be able to cook eggs with just a little
         | oil.
        
         | selimthegrim wrote:
         | Yes with plenty of oil
        
         | chipsa wrote:
         | I have a little square lodge cast iron pan. Fits two egss
         | perfectly, and makes the perfect shape to fit onto regular
         | sandwich bread. Works great.
        
         | markgall wrote:
         | I do it every day. Another tip maybe not mentioned yet is to
         | make sure you get it good and hot before you put in the egg. I
         | usually leave it on the burner for five minutes or so to
         | preheat.
        
         | krrrh wrote:
         | Yes. I just cooked some eggs in my pan which I reseasoned using
         | this method a couple of years ago. I added a teaspoon or two of
         | butter and got it hot first. After cooking the eggs and
         | hashbrowns I barely need to clean it because nothing sticks.
        
       | mynameisash wrote:
       | There's something amusing about cast iron lore that scares so
       | many people away. So many folks - myself included before I
       | actually started using it - think that you _must_ properly season
       | it or it 'll rust up, and you'll never get it back. And that it
       | takes so much effort to do just right. Honestly, it seems pretty
       | hard to get wrong. My ~$20 Lodge skillet from Target has lasted
       | eight years in the kitchen and camping, taking tons of abuse
       | without any apparent wear.
       | 
       | I have a friend who literally didn't even scrape food off his pan
       | when we was done cooking - just let it cool and put it away. When
       | he took it out weeks later, it was green and fuzzy, and he just
       | cranked up the heat until it smoked, and _then_ scraped it clean.
       | That 's more than a bit extreme for me, but perhaps an example of
       | how rugged it is.
       | 
       | I also really like my De Buyer high carbon steel skillet, but if
       | I leave it out for 15 minutes without thoroughly drying it, it
       | starts turning orange from rust. It's a bit finicky for me now
       | that I've come to love my cast iron.
        
         | giardini wrote:
         | says _> There's something amusing about cast iron lore that
         | scares so many people away.<_
         | 
         | No, it is simply a major PITA in the kitchen and no match
         | whatsoever for teflon. It is such a PITA that the cast-iron
         | venders are marketing "enameled cast-iron" which, of course,
         | has a coating of enamel atop the cast-iron.
         | 
         | And get this: there are beaucoup WWW posts on "seasoning" the
         | enamel!
        
         | war1025 wrote:
         | > if I leave it out for 15 minutes without thoroughly drying
         | it, it starts turning orange from rust
         | 
         | The thing cast iron has going for it is that it's black, and
         | black hides a multitude of sins. I'd guess the orange isn't a
         | huge deal, maybe it is though.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | joshu wrote:
       | Anyone tried carbon-steel pans? They're smooth like glass instead
       | of the pebbled Lodge surface. Alternatively, older cast-iron pans
       | are smooth as well.
       | 
       | I quite like my carbon-steel pan but the seasoning instructions
       | (salt, oil, and potato peels?) left a mess, and instead I used
       | the normal cast-iron method.
        
         | grzm wrote:
         | Could you link to the carbon steel pan you have? I like my
         | carbon steel pan, but it's not that much smoother than cast
         | iron (both Lodge). The only "smooth like glass" ones I've used
         | are ceramic, which haven't weathered as well.
        
       | etaioinshrdlu wrote:
       | So isn't the coating basically
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbo... ?
       | Are we sure that's such a good thing to be cooking with?
        
       | travis_brooks wrote:
       | Special $17 oil to season a pan, a multi day oven drying process,
       | wtf?? I'm sort of baffled by this because I can buy a perfectly
       | usable Lodge cast iron skillet for about $20 and not go through
       | any of this nonsense. Is the inefficient recycling of old pans a
       | thing now?
        
       | traviskeens wrote:
       | at the risk of polluting the conversation with my $0.02 ... but
       | maybe someone will find this useful:
       | 
       | I have a (found) cast-iron pan I'd basically given up on: thick,
       | cracked, chipped coating. With a tiny kitchen, I'd stored it in
       | my oven, and after baking a dozen or so loaves of bread while it
       | was in there I discovered that the coating had almost completely
       | burned off. I obsessively researched cast-iron seasoning
       | (included Sheryl Canter's article), heard about the flaking
       | flaxseed oil (not to mention the insane price of the stuff), and
       | ultimately opted for high smoke-point grape seed oil ($4 @ Trader
       | Joe's), the science-y logic being the goal of exceeding the smoke
       | point at the highest possible temp, and indulged in $6 worth of
       | lint-free (blue) shop towels (hardware store), and then:
       | 
       | 1. preheat oven to ~ 200deg F; 2. give pan a vinegar/water bath
       | (~50/50) for 30 minutes, then steel-wooled it for a minute to
       | ensure it was down to the bone; 3. thoroughly dry ... and crank
       | the oven to 450+; 4. using lint-free towel: thoroughly apply a
       | coat of oil to the warmed pan, then wipe almost completely dry,
       | then bake for about an hour; 5. apply another coat (yeah,
       | silicone oven mitts), another wipe-off, another hour ... at most
       | 3x;
       | 
       | The thing is now the gem I always wanted it to be; eggs slide
       | around like on teflon. I wash after use in hottest water using a
       | chainmail scrubber for any tiny stuck bits (almost none ever),
       | and don't mind if there's a drop or two of dish soap. Dry
       | thoroughly, on the fire for a minute to be sure, and then a quick
       | wipe of oil - no re-seasoning, just protection. So the cleanup
       | and maintenance is a bit of a ritual but for me it's well worth
       | the performance.
        
         | mcguire wrote:
         | Having a big thermal mass in the oven doesn't hurt, either.
        
       | jarenmf wrote:
       | I don't really think the science is that conclusive on seasoning.
       | I haven't been able to find any publications to support this
       | opinion that flax seed oil or any other oil is the best for
       | seasoning. It seems also that the health effects of ingesting
       | parts of the patina is not fully understood
        
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