[HN Gopher] E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color ... ___________________________________________________________________ E Ink has developed a 2nd generation Advanced Color E-Paper Author : miles Score : 193 points Date : 2021-01-17 19:03 UTC (3 hours ago) (HTM) web link (goodereader.com) (TXT) w3m dump (goodereader.com) | _Microft wrote: | Let us hope that there will also be normal, maybe smaller?, e-ink | displays for PCs and that they will not only be used for eBook | readers or similar. I for one would love to have a display that | blends perfectly in with its surroundings and doesn't stand out | under any lighting conditions. | underseacables wrote: | Or ..perhaps..based on your biometric/phone/personal data. Here | comes Tom. Tom can afford prices to be 15% more. Change the | price. | | We've sort of seen this before with websites showing different | prices to PC and Macintosh users; based on the analytics that | people who own a Macintosh would pay more | _Microft wrote: | I removed this part of my comment as it distracted from the | idea of using reflective displays with PCs. | davesque wrote: | I've heard people argue that e-ink displays would be in much | wider use if the patent-holding company weren't so protective of | the technology. So the news I'm waiting to hear is when E-Ink the | company decides to loosen up its business practices. | spoonjim wrote: | If the patent holding company hadn't bothered, e-ink would | barely exist though. | [deleted] | notRobot wrote: | If they'd been less strict with their patents then lots of | other companies would've been able to innovate in the space. | | See comments about 3D printer from above in the thread: | | > _Don't forget 3D printing that also only really started | when patents expired._ | | > _Between 2007-2009, 80+ Stratasys patents expired. Think | about this - a single company holding back the world in | advancing forward in 3D printing._ | ianai wrote: | Too bad one of the megacaps hasn't bought them out. | IgorPartola wrote: | Yes because the only thing better than a medium sized company | that won't license its patents is a megacorp that won't | license its patents /s | | No the solution is to incentivize patent licensing and in the | case of software make it simply not patentable. The corporate | overlords won't save us from themselves. If they had their | way patents would simply never expire. | unethical_ban wrote: | Your first sentence, but unironically. | | Big corp probably isn't as devoted to milking one IP asset | to the detriment of its adoption. And they may have the | resources to make more products in-house that utilize the | tech. | | I agree that the patent system needs modification in the | long run, though. | PeterisP wrote: | A megacorp sitting on some patents can and will still | release a whole range of mass market products (large | volumes, so has to be cheap) that uses those patents and | makes it available to the masses. A medium sized company | can't really do that, so at best they will release a niche | product that makes it available to a few people. | syshum wrote: | MegaCorp (like say Amazon) would lock the tech up so only | their products have it, So instead of being able to pick | from a Kindle PaperWhite, OnyxBook, and a Remarkable you | would only have the Kindle... and varitions of the Kindle | | Medium Corp will license their patent (at extreme rates) | to other companies MegaCorp will not. | | Medium Corp is better than MegaCorp for consumers most of | the time. FRAND licensing even batter, and No Patents at | all even better | listerOfSmeg wrote: | not going to happen it s the only thing they have and they know | its a cash cow if it gets wide adoption unfortunately they have | gotten greedy and no one will pay it. | | They also seem to think their market is digital signage and | aren't that interested in licensing for other mass market | consumer products despite the fact the market it has been | adopted most in is e-readers | seszett wrote: | Is it true that e-readers is the largest market for e-ink? | | Supermarkets alone use each thousands of e-ink displays for | shelf price labels for example, I wouldn't be surprised if | that was a more profitable market than e-readers for e-ink, | and also much easier to cater to. | Daho0n wrote: | This seems to be the opposite of what the article says: | | >This technology is not going to be employed for digital | signage, _but instead will be marketed towards e-reader | companies_ who want a high resolution alternative to E INK | Kaleido 2. | TaylorAlexander wrote: | This is why I am so against intellectual monopoly like this. | It does not create continuous incentive to innovate and | instead allows companies with just a bit of innovation to | rest on their laurels. I think there would be much more | innovation in the world, aka a "higher rate of innovation" | without intellectual monopolies and intellectual property | restrictions. | est31 wrote: | Why would you want to innovate when the bigger competitor | can just copy you without paying you anything? | | This current situation is unfortunate, but I think it's an | imperfection of the market. If the patent owning company | had been a bit less greedy, they could have made far more | money with it. | TaylorAlexander wrote: | > Why would you want to innovate when the bigger | competitor can just copy you without paying you anything? | | Because they can't begin to copy you until you've | released your product to market, so you have profit | potential for being the first mover. | | This happens all the time as only a small percentage of | the innovation that occurs actually gets patented. | | In some cases it would be possible for a big company to | take your innovation out from under you but if they can | do a better job then we're all better off for that. If as | an inventor you've only got one idea, you're screwed. You | need to be able to innovate repeatedly. | | But the concise way of responding to this is: markets | already reward innovation. We do not need state controls | on information to "stimulate innovation". The incentive | exists as a natural effect of markets. | z3t4 wrote: | There are so many people out there with crazy ideas, but | they don't want to invest in it because they know they | will be eaten by a bigger fish. Their only hope is to | stay under the radar long enough so that they will have | enough money to retire once their idea gets copied. | est31 wrote: | Sure there is a tiny reward in that you offer something | earlier than your competitors, but it might not be enough | to offset the investments into the research that made it | possible in the first place. Yes, a lot of innovation is | not patented, but that's usually the stuff that requires | little investments. | | Also don't forget the disclosure part of patents. If you | want something be protected by patents, you need to | publish a description of how you do it. You can't just | keep the engineers isolated on an island or whatever. A | no patent world would make manufacturers build in even | more measures to prevent reverse engineering, engineers | sharing secrets, etc. | RobertoG wrote: | How E ink innovations come to happen? | | I think it was developed by MIT and not by E INK, is that | right? | hobofan wrote: | It was developed _by_ professors and students _at_ MIT, | who then went on to found the E Ink Corporation (and | presumably found an arrangement regarding the IP with | MIT). This is the backstory of basically every startup | founded out of a university lab. | HeadsUpHigh wrote: | For the same reason startups can win over existing | giants: first to market is important. | jagger27 wrote: | I'll believe it when I see it. 32,000 colours at 200 to 300 DPI | is incredible. | GekkePrutser wrote: | It's already here, they speak of the current-generation ACeP: | https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/inky-impression | | Saturation, contrast and refresh are still the main weaknesses | though. Especially because a full-color display uses numerous | full-page refreshes to achieve all colours which are really | jarring. | zimpenfish wrote: | > Especially because a full-color display uses numerous full- | page refreshes to achieve all colours which are really | jarring. | | Can confirm - I have a Kaleido based e-reader and whilst I do | like that book covers are in colour, scrolling through even a | small library is jank central due to the multiple refreshes. | qwerty456127 wrote: | I really want an e-ink (I mean an e-ink-only, not a dual-screen | Lenovo ThinkBook) laptop. And I want it monochrome, low-refresh, | no-clutter lo-fi. Rich colour, high refresh rates? No, thank you, | I appreciate the mental silence classic e-ink devices provide. | Just give me a reMarkable with a keyboard, capable to run a | terminal and something like Emacs with org-roam. | willvarfar wrote: | So I'll ask here as there may be some lurkers who can help me in | my quest: | | I am trying to find a basic e-reader. | | I have a simple want: I want a built in browser that will let me | download ePub and pdf etc from the browser. | | I'm not interested in bundled bookstores. I'm not keen on having | to load books onto it via a pc app nor emailing them nor having | an Amazon account neither. I just want to be able to browse and | download FanFiction and stuff like that from a basic browser. | | I am guessing I want an android tablet with an e-ink screen? What | choices do I have and what do people recommend? | SamuelAdams wrote: | I use a Kobo Clara HD. It has a Kobo store where you can buy | books, or you can use the "experimental web browser", point it | to libgen or your libraries website, and download whatever book | you want. | | More often than not though I just hook it up to my Linux laptop | and transfer books via usb. | Sparkle-san wrote: | I use a Kobo Libra H2O which has been quite good to me. For | people that want to take it to the next level, there's the | calibre-web project[1]. It's able to tie into calibre and | push books to kobo devices through the built-in sync command. | | [1] https://github.com/janeczku/calibre-web | willvarfar wrote: | Aha, this brand is easy to get ahold of where I am! | | Googling suggests the "beta" browser has been beta forever; | does the software never update? | | And does the beta browser support multiple tabs and | copy+pasting urls? (FanFiction doesn't do ePub, but there are | several helper websites that provide it if you can copy paste | the FanFiction URLs) | | Thanks awfully for helping me with my research! | mPReDiToR wrote: | I got my MobiScribe last week after trying out a ReMarkable | (v1) for a bit. | | The screen isn't as nice to write on, but the software works | better for me (I hate to say that; it's Android (4.4!)) and it | has a backlight. | | There's the option to sideload apps, but there is a browser | installed when you buy it. Downloading books and apps can be | done over WiFi. | | I have to say I like it. The option to replace the reader gives | you flexibility, as did the community offerings on the | ReMarkable. | | MobiScribe costs less, and is smaller. | smeej wrote: | I recently bought the Onyx Boox Poke 2 Color. [0] | | I love the little guy. Lighter than any paperback I've ever | owned. Fits in a large pocket. Displays in color! Which lets me | highlight in color! And runs Android 9.0 with Google Play | Services (though activating this is a bit hacky). Can install | whatever Android browser you want. It's the "Gameboy Color" | stage of color vibrancy, but it's color. | | Problem is, to my knowledge, this was a limited run. I got mine | from Good eReader, but they sold out of this model, and I don't | know when or if there will be more. | | I haven't tested, but I think the Onyx Boox Poke 3 (not color) | might be able to install GPS too. | | [0] https://goodereader.com/blog/reviews/hands-on-review-of- | the-... | | ETA: Note about quality of colors. | locusofself wrote: | I'd love to see a quality color e-reader, but mostly I just want | a better black and white kindle. Smoother refresh and better | contrast. | kevas wrote: | What's your thoughts on ever using color eInk for | coding/development? | | - easier on the eyes - hammock driven development | | What do you think the refresh rates would need to be to do that? | randoramax wrote: | Comic books will start to make sense on eink | haneefmubarak wrote: | Probably at least 1 Hz to even be slightly usable as a screen | you are composing or editing on, but current refresh times are | multiple seconds so there's still likely a long way to go... | sircastor wrote: | I'll be interested to see how long it takes for this to redraw. | Two color eink panels can be pretty quick these days , but the | color panels take a while because they're addressing multiple | layers. This is apparently just one layer. | listerOfSmeg wrote: | E-ink is one of those techs that only advanced when large batches | of patents expire. E-ink the company has tied up the tech stack | in so many patents, NDA's, and exorbitant prices that no one | wants to touch it. E-ink the technology wont go any where for | 10-15 years when that next big batch of patents expire. Its just | like 3D displays and VR there will be a massive consumer push new | batches of patents will be filed progress will grind to a halt as | no-one can afford everyone else's patent licensing fees on a | unproven market until the next wave expires and better products | can be built again repeat | userbinator wrote: | What perplexes me more is not the patents (since they are | public information), but the NDAs. They could've kept the | underlying technology and manufacturing process patented, while | at the same time selling mass quantities of the displays to | everyone who wants to buy some and freely publishing all the | information on how to drive them (which actually turns out to | be not that difficult.) I bet that would actually get them more | profit than the situation today. | | That has not stopped the more creative and resourceful | individuals, however: | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14124086 | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGVZCEuoccE | oezi wrote: | And this is why patent duration should be tied to product | lifecycle length. Pharma where you need 10 years to pull off | clinical trials could keep 23 years, but consumer hardware | where new generation of devices launch within 2 years should be | limited to 10 years. Software should likely be limited to 5 | years. | projectileboy wrote: | I'm so dumb - this never occurred to me, and I've never heard | anyone express it this way. This makes so much sense. Thanks. | MontyCarloHall wrote: | Alternatively, make the cost to renew a patent each year | increase exponentially, with the base proportional to the | worth of the individual/company filing the patent at the time | of filing. | | That ties the duration of a patent directly to how much value | it provides to the company over time, which is the rationale | for having patents in the first place. A company could only | afford to hold onto a patent for as long as it causes the | company's revenue to grow exponentially. Once the patented | technology matures and growth plateaus, keeping the patent | would become prohibitively expensive. This would completely | eliminate patent trolls and patent squatting/speculative | patents. | oezi wrote: | Getting exponential curves right is very tricky though | (just look at Covid). I believe using such escalating fees | would just favor the big companies who can stay ahead of | the curve. | | Another idea I think worth exploring is mandatory licensing | at fixed rates which decline over years and/or are tied to | revenue the patent holder generates with the patent. The | goal really should be to increase utility of the patent for | the public. | curioussavage wrote: | Well there haven't really been any competing technologies | either. Maybe tcl nxtpaper will push eink forward. Or | ultimately kill it | syshum wrote: | Another example of how IP laws have become an enemy of the | goals society had when passing them, which is not to enrich a | few corporations but to incentivize innovation, but now it is | clear copyright, and patents today are doing far more HARM to | innovation than they advance it | | As such we as a society need to look hard at those laws and | policies to reform them | | Sadly the large corporations have a huge amounts of lobby money | and are rapidly attempting to get the terrible IP laws codified | into complex international treaties to ensure no nation can do | any reform at all | D13Fd wrote: | I strongly disagree about patents. This is the patent system | working as designed. It incentivized a company to invent a | new thing, and gave them a monopoly for a reasonable amount | of time (20 years). When it ends, others can operate in the | space. | | I agree about copyright, though. Copyright has been expanded | to cover software and even APIs. Copyright is a giant drag on | innovation. A single company can tie up a space for life of | the author plus 70 years, which is absurd. Copyright should | never have applied to most forms of software, which clearly | fall into the exceptions of 17 USC SS 102(b). But we are | where we are. | syshum wrote: | Clearly it is not, e-Ink, 3d printing, VR, and hosts of | other technology has been held back not advanced because of | patents | | Now that is not to say I would advocate for complete | removal of the patent systems but I do think Compulsory | FRAND style licensing should be a requirement of obtaining | a patent | | Your distinction between Copyright and Patent is also | strang as the suffer from the same flaw so it seems your | only justification is that you believe 20 years is | "reasonable" but Life is not | | I think both are unreasonable, I would personally like to | see both dropped to 10 years, or some compromise where you | get 2-3 years exclusive use of the creation then have some | kind of compulsory license where the creator is compensated | but can not with hold the creation for 20 years (with some | kind of scheme that the license be fair and equitable) | vikramkr wrote: | Held back might be the tradeoff we have to pay for | letting them exist in the first place. Developing new | technologies is not cheap or trivial- especially hardware | innovations. I'd rather have a delayed 20 year start to | fast e ink innovation than have e ink never get the r&d | funding needed to get past the valley of death and make | it to market in the first place. | ajsnigrutin wrote: | 20 years is not a reasonable amount of time for | technological products in current times. | throwaway189262 wrote: | Facebook is only 16 years old. Think about that. 20 years | ago everyone was using 56k modems and JS barely existed. | | 20 years is an absurdly long time in tech | mrfusion wrote: | Speaking of that, I'd love to get an alert whenever a major | patent like that expires. It would help predict the tech | landscape a few years out. | | Anyone know of any major expirations in the next few years? | bastawhiz wrote: | The trouble is knowing what patents are "big". There are few | good signals for patents that are holding back innovation. | Fordec wrote: | I'd love a newsletter that tracked what patents were expiring | on any given week. I'm pretty ignorant of what's coming down | the pipeline from a legal perspective. | _Microft wrote: | Don't forget 3D printing that also only really started when | patents expired. | systemvoltage wrote: | Between 2007-2009, 80+ Stratasys patents expired. Think about | this - a single company holding back the world in advancing | forward in 3D printing. Orthogonally, ever wondered why | memory on your PC is so expensive? Thanks to Micron, Hynix | and Samsung triopoly. | spoonjim wrote: | But isn't it those same companies that are the reason that | memory isn't $1000/megabyte? | mynameisvlad wrote: | I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. Are | you implying that they could price gouge even more than | they already are and are keeping prices relatively low | out of the goodness of their hearts? | est31 wrote: | I think their point is that these companies gave us cheap | memory in the first place. Which is an important thing to | remember. The distruptors of days past are the | monopolists of today. And they themselves will be | disrupted one day. | SV_BubbleTime wrote: | > The distruptors of days past are the monopolists of | today. And they themselves will be disrupted one day. | | I can think of a few that can't be disrupted soon enough. | dragosmocrii wrote: | Can you elaborate on the memory pricing? | dsr_ wrote: | Here's an article from 2011 doing Moore's Law | extrapolation of RAM and disk prices: | https://antranik.org/using-moores-law-to-predict-future- | memo... | | RAM, 2011: "A single 8GB stick of RAM is about $80 right | now. In 2021, you'd be able to buy a single stick of RAM | that contains 64GB for the same price." | | Disks, 2011: "The price of a 1-terabyte hard drive is $80 | now... | | In 2013, a 2TB drive will be $80. | | In 2015, a 4TB drive will be $80. | | After that the doubling rate may lengthen to 3 years | instead of 2 years so.. | | In 2018, an 8TB drive will be $80. And finally in 2021, | for $80, you'd be able to buy a 16 terabyte hard drive" | loeg wrote: | Moore's law was (1) an observation of historical data and | (2) never a guarantee by vendors to make higher capacity | products at lower prices. The extrapolation is just | nonsense wishful thinking. | Someone wrote: | I don't think it's fair to expect hard drive capacity/$ | to grow exponentially forever. | | Certainly for consumer hard drives, there's a cost of | getting the drive to the customer (transport, shop rent, | employee salaries, etc) which is, at best, fixed. | | If manufacturing costs drop to zero, price will approach | that fixed cost (plus any markup sellers manage to | extract, for example by marketing their drives as | better/more hip/etc.) | mendelmaleh wrote: | For the record, it's 2021 and the cheapest 16tb hard | drive on pcpartpicker is $335. For $80 you can get a | cheap 4tb hard drive. | treeman79 wrote: | When I was a kid, me and a friend would be amazed at a | 25,000 dollar 1 TB multi hd array. | | We couldn't imagine how anyone would ever need so much | space. | ivegotnoaccount wrote: | Is applying Moore's law relevant, since the manufacturing | process of DRAM is hugely different from the one for | usual chips (limited by capacitor size, not transistor | one) ? Same goes for hard drives. Not saying that price | gouging has nothing to do with this, but simply saying | "Moore's law was not followed" does in no way imply | something interfered with it. | rudedogg wrote: | > Orthogonally, ever wondered why memory on your PC is so | expensive? Thanks to Micron, Hynix and Samsung triopoly. | | Should have mentioned | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing. It's not | just speculative. | [deleted] | feb wrote: | Patents have stalled technology in many areas since a long | time. The book "Against Intellectual Monopoly" [1] by Michele | Boldrin and David K. Levine analyze the economical impact of | patterns on society. They give some surprising examples, like | how the Wright brothers invested heavily in patents and legal | actions to stiffle competition instead of continuing | development of airplanes. | | [1] http://dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm | bergstromm466 wrote: | Goddammit I hate patents, trade secrets and intellectual | property. I want this out there on all my devices. Imagine how | much less energy we'd use, how much less e-waste we would | generate, and how grateful our eyes would be if we weren't | staring at blue lights all day. | SulfurHexaFluri wrote: | Its difficult to find the details on this because these | companies are so secretive, but from everything I have seen, | the e paper technology we have is completely useless for | anything but displaying mostly static content. The refresh time | is insanely slow so simply typing text or scrolling a page | would be almost impossible. | | Also almost all of the full color eink screens I have been able | to find details on are actually just normal TFT LCD displays | with some matte film over the top. The core eink tech seems to | be fairly easily changed to get 3 colours at the cost of 15 | second refresh times but any more colurs seems unlikely. | GekkePrutser wrote: | Nice, but that screenshot looks too good to be real.. Probably a | render/photoshop? | | Unless there has really been a huge improvement recently but I | doubt it. | vimy wrote: | Foldable E-ink screen and you'll have the perfect comic reader. | itronitron wrote: | I'm interested to see how this will compare with a printed | photograph, and whether they are at all distinguishable from each | other when framed. | chrismorgan wrote: | > _They can display a total of 32,000 colors and 200 to 300 PPI, | depending on the screen size._ | | I'm going to guess that's 15-bit colour (32,768 colours) in the | form of RGB channels, 5 bits per channel (32 possible values). | | For full colour imagery, I imagine you'd still want dithering to | simulate higher bit depths. 300dpi is fine enough that I believe | you could make it very subtle indeed, so that you could well have | to examine it quite closely to notice. | | > _It will be able to display over 40,000 different colors_ | | ... but then again, maybe it's not done as RGB data in this way. | I have no idea what array of inputs a range of 40,000 would | correspond to. I'm not familiar with this sort of hardware. | fencepost wrote: | It may depend in part on the nature and color of the pigments | being used - they may have 64k colors in theory but not all | distinguishable. | | There are also ongoing discoveries in pigments, for example | YInMn Blue which still has very limited availability. | | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/YInMn_Blue | | https://news.artnet.com/art-world/yinmn-blue-comes-market-19... | chrismorgan wrote: | I very much doubt they'd shrink 65,536 to 40,000, even if | some of the values were indistinguishable from others. That's | not how marketing works! If you have a 3x9 gear combination | on a bicycle, you call it 27 gears, never mind that a lot of | it is overlap and that it's even possible for some ratios to | be identical (e.g. 26:9 and 52:18 is conceivable). | s800 wrote: | Wouldn't e-ink be in CMY(K) instead of RGB since it's | reflective? | rubatuga wrote: | No, still RGB. We're not mixing pigments, just using | subpixels. | Grustaf wrote: | The printed dot in a CMYK raster doesn't mix pigments | either! | itronitron wrote: | Each pixel has all eight pigments in it. I'm assuming that is | RGB,CMY, Black, and White. It's not clear whether they can mix | two or more of those pigments in a single pixel or if they can | only switch one fully on and the others off. | | It would be nice if they provided some detailed gradient color | wheel images on the device. | elaus wrote: | I'm still waiting for widely available and affordable e-ink | displays for tinkerers. I'd love to put one onto a Raspberry Pi | to show some information, but it's just too expensive right now. | coder543 wrote: | Define "too expensive". Is $20 really too much? | https://www.adafruit.com/product/4687 | | The larger the display, the more expensive it is, but that's | not unusual, and LCDs aren't much different in price until you | start to get to really large e-ink panels. (Given the depth of | the LCD market, I'm sure you can find unusually cheap panels | somewhere... the point remains. The prices aren't that bad | these days for e-ink.) | IgorPartola wrote: | For that size screen, yes. I think roughly $1-3/screen for | that size is good. That's what a small OLED screen will run | you at any kind of volume. For $20 I would want something on | the order of 6x8". For $35 a 20" diagonal panel. | | Granted you linked to Adafruit which is wonderful for their | educational resources and easy to use high quality | components, but that's not where I would source parts for a | project unless they had something truly unique or I was | buying it for a newbie who could use the support they provide | (bought some Arduino stuff from them recently for my kids). | i386 wrote: | You're quibbling over something that costs less than a | moderately priced lunch and a parking meter ticket. Buy the | screen. | coder543 wrote: | > For that size screen, yes. I think roughly $1-3/screen | for that size is good. | | That's just unrealistic. Similar LCD screen is also $20: | https://www.adafruit.com/product/358 | | If you negotiate directly with manufacturers, or order | direct from china, I'm certain both of these would be much | cheaper, but I'm talking about US retail prices and how LCD | and E-Ink are very similarly priced at this level. | | > but that's not where I would source parts for a project | unless they had something truly unique | | I can link you to other retailers who charge very similar | prices. Direct from china is different, and similarly, you | can find these e-ink displays for cheaper on aliexpress and | similar. That's irrelevant to the discussion. | | $20 is fine for this. We're not (as far as I'm aware) | talking about someone making a product to sell in bulk on | kickstarter. We're talking about buying one to use at home. | IgorPartola wrote: | https://a.aliexpress.com/_mr3Zg1T | | This is the price you'd pay if you are willing to wait. I | rarely need just one component and 5 displays at $20 is | serious. If you want to sell a device, a $20 can easily | kill your profit margin. | | I am talking about direct from China and potentially | selling products because if you just limit the discussion | to single component hobby use then no amount is really | too high. Why not $40? $80? You only need one, right? | coder543 wrote: | I literally already said you can pay less on aliexpress, | and the same absolutely applies to e-ink. | | If you're making a point, I can't figure out what it is. | This is way off topic. | | EDIT: you have edited in some more relevant points, but | there definitely is a price that's too high. If you had | to pair a $35 computer with a $100 display, most people | would absolutely find that to be too much in this hobby | context. They would have to either have a lot of money, | or a lot of passion for a particular project in order to | justify that. Most people will find $20 to be reasonable. | chrisco255 wrote: | $20 for the LCD is one component among many that you need | to build a hobby project. It adds up quick if you pay | retail like that. Meanwhile, if you can reduce that by an | order of magnitude, the number of projects that will take | advantage of it will increase. As for hobbyist projects | vs commercial products, many hobbyists have created | businesses from their projects, and that goes from | woodworking to baking to electronics. Seems like 6-7 | years ago there was a lot of excitement around the idea | of "desktop manufacturing" and realizing the promise of | 3D printing for small batch electronics. Maybe that was a | little early in the hype cycle but I very much would like | to see this sort of thing take off. Every $ counts in | making that a realistic possibility. | userbinator wrote: | http://essentialscrap.com/eink/ | | Those are 6" 800x600 displays for ~$20-30. | | Edit: here's a whole list of related models: | https://github.com/vroland/epdiy | GekkePrutser wrote: | Waveshare have them for really small prices. | https://www.waveshare.com | | Also, this is really cool: | https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/inky-impression | TaylorAlexander wrote: | Yes a little tablet with the Pi4 compute module would be very | nice! | bmsleight_ wrote: | An 2nd Hand Kindle paperwhite is PS30. <plug>You can us it as a | monitor https://barwap.com/projects/okmonitor/ </plug> | SulfurHexaFluri wrote: | You can get 7" e paper displays for about the same cost as an | rpi from waveshare and similar. | amelius wrote: | Why does every article on e-paper omit the most interesting bit | of information? I.e. the refresh time. | colejohnson66 wrote: | Because it's bad compared to every other digital display. | They're always on the order of _seconds_ , and get even worse | the more colors there are. Tri-color displays (red, white, and | black) are sometimes up to a dozen seconds or worse. For | example, [0] has a refresh time of _fifteen seconds_! I'd be | surprised if this isn't an order of magnitude worse than that. | | [0]: https://www.good-display.com/product/223.html | Mayzie wrote: | > Because it's bad compared to every other digital display. | | DASUNG seems to have a very fast refresh rate on their | e-paper displays, enough so that they're marketing an e-paper | monitor.[0] | | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGblzUc_Z1I | GekkePrutser wrote: | Bad yes. But that makes improvements even more important! | | Especially linked with partial refresh could make this really | feasible for stuff with small text updates happening etc. | 458aperta wrote: | From their photos, this looks mighty impressive! | | https://goodereader.com/blog/uploads/images/2021/01/1-75sD-q... | | Still not as good as printed ink but this is good enough for many | applications. | sosuke wrote: | The picture presented has 133134 colors in it from my very rough | calculation. That is not at all how the display will look. | comboy wrote: | I agree with the conclusion but how did you do your | calculation? If you take a picture of a 16 colors screen you | will find many more colors in that picture (main reason being | that pixels won't align perfectly). | ivegotnoaccount wrote: | How did you get to this result ? (I'm not claiming this is the | real look it will have, simply wanted to check the metodology) | Simply counting the number of colors in the image does not seem | a good idea since even with a real photo, a screen with all | pixels outputing the same will not give you a single-color | image when captured with a camera. The issue is even worse with | e-ink due to their technology. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-01-17 23:00 UTC)