[HN Gopher] Amazon Echo Flex Teardown: The Big Silicon
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       Amazon Echo Flex Teardown: The Big Silicon
        
       Author : parsecs
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2021-01-17 20:16 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (electronupdate.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (electronupdate.blogspot.com)
        
       | rmoriz wrote:
       | I wish we would be able to repurpose such closed down devices to
       | run free software.
        
       | Closi wrote:
       | > The engineering that went into this block was probably in the
       | thousands of person-hours and involved some pretty rare
       | engineering skills.
       | 
       | It's probably in the tens of thousands - one person working on it
       | by themselves for a year gets you to 2000 hours.
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | No, even a one man team can do a cookie cutter SoC with hard
         | macros these days.
         | 
         | Mid-tier SoCs of around 2010-2012 period were done by teams of
         | just 20-30 for most of brands on the market.
         | 
         | Only after the mobile market skyrocketed did RnD expenses
         | skyrocket too as market competition started to get serious.
        
       | syntaxing wrote:
       | It's super impressive that someone can just look at a die image
       | and know what blocks are what. Kinda wished I knew more to about
       | ASICs to be able to do the same.
        
       | MJalali wrote:
       | I always enjoy to see the details of boards
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related from 5 days ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25742276
        
       | banana_giraffe wrote:
       | > In ~1997 this level of compute power would have been enough to
       | get on the TOPS500 list of the fastest computers our civilization
       | is capable of creating.... now something that consumes only 54 sq
       | mm of silicon that gets put into a $15.00 gadget.
       | 
       | ... and it's incapable of doing anything useful without even
       | bigger computers somewhere else.
       | 
       | Progress is so odd sometimes.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | I often wonder if there is anything else in society that could
         | scale in a similar way to moores law.
         | 
         | Is there anything else we could use a lithographic-like process
         | to make massive numbers of very cheaply, yet still find buyers
         | for?
         | 
         | Floors of a modern skyscraper are nearly that - they're made
         | with moulds that get reused again and again on every floor. But
         | to get decent scaling, you really need to make instances in at
         | least 2, and preferably 3 dimensions in one go.
         | 
         | We've already done it with things like the printing press that
         | can churn out books very cheaply - but it turns out that we've
         | now reached the limit of the numbers of books people want.
         | 
         | Humans also reproduce exponentially - with a sufficiently high
         | birth rate, numbers of people can rapidly grow. One needs
         | enough space to support that growth, and we are sadly lacking
         | in that... Perhaps Mars will allow us to practice our fast-
         | scaling of civilization?
        
           | mistermann wrote:
           | Ideas, emotions (love, hate, apathy, etc).
           | 
           | See: 1/6/2021 events at the US Capitol, the number of
           | children that die annually due to malnutrition, etc.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | > Is there anything else we could use a lithographic-like
           | process to make massive numbers of very cheaply, yet still
           | find buyers for?
           | 
           | Very few. The thing with litho is that materials inputs, and
           | outputs are nearly the same, it's just the value coming
           | defies conventional economics.
           | 
           | Thermodynamics limits all physical processes by entropy, but
           | nothing limits the entropy itself.
        
           | baybal2 wrote:
           | > Humans also reproduce exponentially - with a sufficiently
           | high birth rate, numbers of people can rapidly grow.
           | 
           | With a sufficiently high birth rate, daycare, cheap real
           | estate, schools with less than 100 pupils per class, free
           | higher education, and solid, assured pensions, and state
           | elderly care.
        
             | ethbr0 wrote:
             | Why haven't we better stardized housing, education, and
             | food to scale?
             | 
             | Human needs are not bespoke.
        
               | baybal2 wrote:
               | The Eastern Bloc kind of tried, you can see how it went.
               | 
               | Saying it being a half-success would be a complement.
               | 
               | If a Union's citizen could've choose in between Union's
               | kindergarten, and an American one, he wouldn't need to
               | choose, though some people say daycare wasn't as bad in
               | Western countries of the bloc.
               | 
               | I would still admit, Union's secondary education was a
               | rare somewhat half-success story, and it only looks so
               | good if you compares it to USA, but not so much other
               | Western bloc countries.
               | 
               | China tried mass housing along Union's model, and it
               | failed miserably (though this failure could've probably
               | been called a success by standard of places like
               | California.) It took it to adopt capitalist real estate
               | model to get where it is now, and even today, Beijing has
               | no viable recipe how to house 60% of population that got
               | to stay behind in the industrialisation drive.
               | 
               | The bling-bling Chinese 1st tier cities most Westerners
               | get to see only represent how 5% of China population
               | live, and even they get to house most of its citizens in
               | rather gloomy "bedroom district" type suburbs which most
               | outsiders lauding "Chinese housing model" never see.
               | 
               | The quality of housing in China drops with inverse square
               | root of a distance from nearest 1st tier city, and from
               | downtown to suburb.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | Because economic pressures are much stronger than
               | humanitarian pressures, so standardized things are
               | optimized to be as small and cheap as possible. Hence
               | slums, standardized testing and junk food.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | > _Perhaps Mars will allow us to practice our fast-scaling of
           | civilization?_
           | 
           | For a few decades (assuming fixed rate), until the population
           | doubles and we'll be overpopulating _two_ planets. We need to
           | either slow down on the exponent - not just population, but
           | also markets - or figure out interstellar travel rather
           | quickly.
        
             | noja wrote:
             | > We need to either slow down on the exponent - not just
             | population
             | 
             | We did this. Population growth is slowing rapidly.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | Sure. But you even quoted me saying _not just population_
               | , which is the key point. Stabilizing population doesn't
               | buy us much if the market - and thus resource
               | exploitation - is still growing exponentially.
        
             | mpweiher wrote:
             | Population growth is predicted to effectively stop by 2100.
             | 
             | https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/17/worlds-
             | popu...
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Resource consumption is the relevant metric.
        
             | baybal2 wrote:
             | > For a few decades (assuming fixed rate), until the
             | population doubles and we'll be overpopulating two planets.
             | 
             | By the time mankind would be able to populate Mars, we
             | would've probably have no effort to just build cities in
             | space.
             | 
             | The amount of steel, and aluminum you can make just from
             | moon, and earth is enough for billions of space cities.
        
               | ta988 wrote:
               | what about food? wouldnt that be the limiting factor?
        
               | baybal2 wrote:
               | I you can lift exatons of steel into space, you can
               | probably already afford to solve the problem of direct
               | synthesis of all, and every fertilizer, and probably
               | nearly every other chemistry process just by throwing
               | more energy at it.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | Raw materials will be cheap in space, once we crack
               | orbital manufacturing.
        
           | bserge wrote:
           | I believe space would be the least of our worries in that
           | case...
        
         | bserge wrote:
         | Well it's not technically incapable, it's just that the makers
         | can't profit from it.
        
       | intricatedetail wrote:
       | Is that extra Wi-Fi being unused? Not difficult to imagine that
       | this could have been a tap for LE to listen in if someone turned
       | off WiFi
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-17 23:00 UTC)