[HN Gopher] Show HN: Beeper - All Your Chats in One App
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       Show HN: Beeper - All Your Chats in One App
        
       Author : erohead
       Score  : 347 points
       Date   : 2021-01-20 16:24 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.beeperhq.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.beeperhq.com)
        
       | erohead wrote:
       | While working on Pebble, we ran into a lot of issues as we tried
       | to enable messaging from the watch. For example, we never figured
       | out how to send an iMessage or WhatsApp reply. While digging
       | around for a solution to that problem, I thought it was odd that
       | no one had built a Adrium/Trillian/Meebo chat app for modern chat
       | networks. I buried that thought for a while, until I learned
       | about Matrix two years ago.
       | 
       | Matrix is the holy grail of chat. It's end-to-end encrypted by
       | default, federated and open source. The only problem is that not
       | a single one of my friends or family was on it! Luckily the
       | Matrix folks had already envisioned a solution to this problem -
       | they built an API enabling 'bridges' between Matrix and other
       | chat networks. This struck a chord with me, maybe we could
       | finally build a single app that I could use to chat with all my
       | friends, regardless of which chat app they used. Through the
       | Matrix community I met Tulir, the most prolific bridge developer
       | and we started working together on what would become Beeper. I've
       | been using it as my primary chat client for almost 2 years now. I
       | could not imagine going back to the hot mess of 12 different chat
       | apps I had before!
       | 
       | Beeper is a paid service because I think it aligns interests
       | between us and our users. We make a featureful and secure app, in
       | exchange you pay us money. For those who prefer to self-host, you
       | can run the entire Beeper backend stack on your own server. The
       | vast majority of the code we've written for Beeper is open source
       | on gitlab.com/nova. Our desktop client is closed source, but you
       | can use Element (or any open source Matrix client) if you prefer.
       | See our FAQ for more info or I'd be happy to explain more.
        
         | pinusc wrote:
         | As someone who self-hosts a bunch of bridges-great work! Really
         | appreciate seeing a simple solution for people who don't know
         | or don't want to self host.
         | 
         | Also, seeing that Tulir is not working entirely pro-bono but
         | that his efforts are backed by a company makes me more hopeful
         | that the bridge development will continue!
        
         | sarthakjshetty wrote:
         | Holy! I don't remember the last time I was this excited for a
         | chat app. I just saw your tweet and came to HN to post it but
         | this was already on the front page haha.
         | 
         | Just a quick question (completely noob question, I apologize in
         | advance), do bridges work like APIs? Where can I read more
         | about this protocol?
         | 
         | Really looking forward to this Eric!
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | Simplest way to learn about the API is to look at several bot
           | implementations https://github.com/maubot/maubot
        
             | sarthakjshetty wrote:
             | Awesome! Thanks a ton!
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | This feels too good to be true. It feels a "Shut up and take my
         | money". I thought with effective demise of XMPP and myriad
         | differing standards and proprietary apps & protocols, this
         | could not happen anymore.
         | 
         | I'll check out your site and you may have some very happy paid
         | users soon :)
        
         | wsinks wrote:
         | Ha, when all those apps started breaking out, I knew that there
         | would be a day when someone would finally connect them. Thank
         | you for the story about how Matrix enabled you here, we're all
         | standing on the backs of turtles!
        
         | nextaccountic wrote:
         | Hey, does it support Telegram stickers?
        
           | kitkat_new wrote:
           | I don't know about the app, but you can use Telegram stickers
           | in Matrix - somewhat. However, it requires a few minutes of
           | work: https://github.com/maunium/stickerpicker For video
           | watchers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz3H6KJTEI0
        
         | have_faith wrote:
         | How "brittle" are the integrations? I guess I mean is this a
         | supported feature of all the 3rd party services or do you have
         | to rely on hooking into undocumented apis that could change at
         | any time etc.
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | I've been using it for the last year straight and I think we
           | only experienced one unforeseen breaking API change.
        
             | have_faith wrote:
             | Just chiming in, I probably wouldn't pay for $10 a month
             | for this service (maybe I'm not the target market). I do
             | use various messaging apps and it is annoying though.
             | 
             | This jumped out at me:
             | 
             | >we send each user a Jailbroken iPhone with the Beeper app
             | installed which bridges to iMessage
             | 
             | I couldn't tell if that was some sort of joke or if it
             | meant something different to how I was reading it?
             | 
             | Being open source is great, but to be honest I lack the
             | time (and expertise) to see how all the integrations work.
             | A page that describes a high level overview of how this
             | works exactly might build more trust.
             | 
             | Good luck!
        
         | spamalot159 wrote:
         | How does your iMessage integration compare to AirMessage?
         | 
         | I've been using AirMessage for a couple months now on my new
         | Android phone and it is about 80% reliable. Images and videos
         | also take significantly longer to processes than if I were to
         | use an iPhone.
         | 
         | I wonder if Beeper would be an upgrade over AirMessage or if it
         | is essentially the same.
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | Beeper requires a Mac like AirMessage. Or they'll send you a
           | jailbroken iPhone.
        
             | giancarlostoro wrote:
             | How old are these iPhones cause that's the oddest part of
             | that setup I've heard.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | iPhone 4.[1]
               | 
               | [1]
               | https://twitter.com/ericmigi/status/1351934418961661959
        
               | giancarlostoro wrote:
               | Thanks for that! It's kind of funny to me, but also kind
               | of cool. I guess you just have to be sure to charge the
               | iPhone every now and then.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | I think the idea is you leave it plugged in at home.
        
         | mrkramer wrote:
         | Couldn't all of these chat apps change their TOS and forbid
         | Matrix bridges like Discord forbid running through 3rd party
         | client? You depend on all of those chat providers to allow you
         | to hook everything in one app.
        
           | kitkat_new wrote:
           | t2bot.io hosts a Discord bridge and to my knowledge it is
           | officially allowed by Discord (else they could not have more
           | than 100+ bridge users).
        
           | luplex wrote:
           | Yes they can! But it's unlikely they would all do it at the
           | same time.
        
         | bluesmoon wrote:
         | As an answer to your first question:
         | 
         | Between 2000-2003, I worked on components of the cross protocol
         | IM backend used by many of the multi-protocol messengers back
         | in the early to mid 2000s (eg: Adium, Trillian, Fire, Ayttm,
         | and more). Each of the frontends had different ways to
         | integrate. Trillian used 2 processes with TCP communication
         | between them to get around the GPL licensed backend), Fire,
         | Adium, Ayttm released everything under the GPL.
         | 
         | Eventually most clients moved to using libpurple as the backend
         | (developed by the team behind Gaim), but the devs also started
         | getting older, busier, and having other responsibilities
         | outside of work. The only apps to survive were those that had a
         | business model that allowed them to reuse open source code
         | without having to release any of the code they developed
         | themselves.
         | 
         | I personally stopped working on instant messaging in April
         | 2004, the night before I became a Yahoo employee, though I
         | continued blogging and doing conference talks about the
         | experience:
         | 
         | - https://tech.bluesmoon.info/2004/09/fallback-messaging.html
         | 
         | - https://tech.bluesmoon.info/2011/05/story-of-george-
         | ayttms-m...
         | 
         | - https://tech.bluesmoon.info/2010/11/stream-of-
         | collaboration-...
        
         | GekkePrutser wrote:
         | Wasn't this NovaChat before? I signed up for the beta and was
         | thinking of planning a session with you for enrolment as you
         | mentioned in your last email, hasn't had time yet, sorry. Saw
         | it here at the last HN post.
         | 
         | If it's available now I'll gladly use it. Since the Whatsapp
         | thing a couple weeks ago even more of my contacts have spread
         | out to different apps and it drives me nuts.
         | 
         | Pricing sounds good too, I know these bridges need work to
         | maintain. I've tried to run them myself using the docker script
         | but it's not ideal. And supporting the maintenance is great.
        
         | gtf21 wrote:
         | How does this play with the security of e.g. Signal? Security
         | and privacy is the main reason many of us will use it so I
         | wouldn't want to compromise it.
         | 
         | Would love to use this on Linux, I find all the desktop apps
         | really rubbish (and very happy to pay for it).
        
           | feanaro wrote:
           | Matrix's encryption is based on the same cryptographic
           | ratchet technology used by Signal. The protocols involved are
           | called Olm and Megolm.
           | 
           | Olm is used for establishing 1-on-1 sessions between pairs of
           | users (or rather, their devices). This is then used as a
           | secure channel to share Megolm keys. A Megolm key is
           | ratcheted with each room message sent and is used to derive a
           | symmetric AES key with which the message is actually
           | encrypted. Periodically (every N messages) a new Megolm key
           | is created and re-shared with room participants.
           | 
           | So the end result is that it has roughly the same security as
           | Signal, except that a single compromised Megolm key will
           | reveal N messages to the attacker instead of just a single
           | message. In return, the protocol is much more scalable,
           | enabling relatively efficient large end-to-end encrypted
           | groups. Otherwise, all the session self-healing, forward
           | secrecy properties of Signal are retained.
           | 
           | TL;DR: Approximately the same as Signal, trading a tiny bit
           | of security in the event of a key leak for more scalable
           | encryption in the setting of large groups.
        
             | foolinaround wrote:
             | is the N configurable by the user? ( different paid tier)
        
               | feanaro wrote:
               | I don't know much about Beeper, but I do know more about
               | Matrix in general. And yes, the N is configurable there
               | (as in, you can change it in a client implementation,
               | even if it isn't particularly common to have it exposed
               | as a setting).
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | I believe this is true for Matrix-to-Matrix communication.
             | However if I understand correctly the bridges terminate the
             | e2e encryption and then connect to the third party service
             | (possibly with a different e2e session).
        
               | feanaro wrote:
               | Yes, I was talking about native Matrix specifically.
        
               | km3r wrote:
               | you can self host the bridge between matrix and signal,
               | allowing e2e to a host you control, and e2e from that
               | host to your device. Perhaps not ideal, but likely
               | unavoidable if you want an all in one app like this.
        
             | gtf21 wrote:
             | So, essentially, if I self-host the bridges then there's no
             | security issue (otherwise it looks like a third party has
             | access to the keys to decrypt messages, unless the
             | negotiation just creates a tunnel through which the signal
             | connection occurs)?
        
               | erohead wrote:
               | yes, it's a secure tunnel to your self-hosted bridge from
               | client
        
             | rStar wrote:
             | so the answer is: yes this reduces security over signal for
             | both myself and whomever i'm chatting with. due to this,
             | seems like a questionable choice to include signal.
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | Thanks! Beeper looks amazing.
         | 
         | > _Our desktop client is closed source, but you can use Element
         | (or any open source Matrix client) if you prefer._
         | 
         | I see most bridges are licensed AGPLv3 [0]: Aren't you required
         | to AGPLv3 the desktop client, too?
         | 
         | [0] For ex:
         | https://gitlab.com/nova/whatsapp/-/blob/master/LICENSE
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | The bridges do not run inside the client, they either run on
           | your own self-hosted server or our cloud.
        
           | nextaccountic wrote:
           | > Then aren't you required to AGPLv3 the desktop client, too?
           | 
           | Only if the desktop client is legally a derivative work of
           | the bridges.
        
         | StavrosK wrote:
         | I would love to pay you for this (though I think $10 is a bit
         | steep), but I don't want you to be able to read my messages,
         | which you are since you run the bridges.
        
         | crooked-v wrote:
         | > Beeper is a paid service
         | 
         | It took me multiple times searching that page to find the "$10
         | monthly fee" hidden in the FAQ section. You desperately need an
         | obvious pricing section.
        
           | foolinaround wrote:
           | $10 monthly for a chat service is a bit steep for users from
           | Asia and other places..
        
             | viewer5 wrote:
             | Is it a just plain high price (e.g. if this was $50/month
             | that would be expensive for me, here in the US) or is it
             | high comparable to other things (e.g. "other messaging apps
             | would be closer to $3/month")?
        
               | pinusc wrote:
               | It's comparably high-other messaging apps are _free_.
               | Don't get me wrong, this is awesome-I've been doing it
               | myself manually by hosting bridges myself for a while,
               | and it seems like a very nice solution for non-tech-savy
               | users.
               | 
               | But $10/month is steep, given that in practice you're
               | paying that much just for the convenience of having your
               | (pre existing chats) in the same app.
               | 
               | What I don't get is that hosting your own bridges
               | requires the same $10/month subscription. If there was a
               | $2/month fee for "power users" instead, letting you host
               | your own... I would most likely get a subscription for
               | the convenience of using their better integrated
               | software.
        
               | troydavis wrote:
               | > What I don't get is that hosting your own bridges
               | requires the same $10/month subscription. If there was a
               | $2/month fee for "power users" instead, letting you host
               | your own... I would most likely get a subscription for
               | the convenience of using their better integrated
               | software.
               | 
               | Those features may require extra engineering and support
               | effort, not less.
               | 
               | (Even if these changes actually reduced the cost of
               | service delivery, it's usually a small part of the price.
               | In consumer SaaS, you're not paying for the cost of goods
               | sold, you're paying for everything else - particularly
               | software engineering, support, and marketing AKA customer
               | acquisition. A reasonable analogy is a restaurant, where
               | 20-30% of the meal price goes to food costs. In consumer
               | SaaS, the "food cost" is often 10%-20% of the "meal
               | price.")
        
               | smarx007 wrote:
               | I think generally paying for a messaging app subscription
               | more than you pay for your phone subscription (ARPU) is
               | going to be hard to sell to a wide audience.
               | 
               | https://www.statista.com/statistics/668966/mobile-
               | average-re...
        
             | donclark wrote:
             | Good point. Maybe their pricing could be location based?
        
         | recursivedoubts wrote:
         | Thank you, I am very glad to pay you money to solve this
         | problem!
         | 
         | Without an open source client, how can I be assured that you
         | aren't harvesting user data through it?
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | At first, you have to trust us though we will perform
           | auditing eventually. If you would like to use an open source
           | Matrix client, that works as well!
        
         | raunakdag wrote:
         | Do you guys plan on continuing with the jailbreakable iPhone
         | method for iMessage bridging for the foreseeable future, or is
         | there an alternative one can expect that is being worked on?
        
         | necrotic_comp wrote:
         | This is fantastic stuff. Thank you for building it. Matrix
         | truly is a wonderful piece of software.
        
         | arendtio wrote:
         | How about XMPP support? I mean, you are talking about Matrix
         | being the holy grail of chat and at the same time you do not
         | support the IETF standard for instant messaging (which is also
         | federated, supports E2E encryption, can use bridges to other
         | networks and has several open source implementations)...
         | 
         | In general, my biggest issue with the Matrix community is that
         | they chose to build something new, instead of fixing something
         | existing. Granted, at the time when Matrix started, XMPP wasn't
         | fit for the mobile revolution. But instead of improving the
         | XMPP standard (which other people did afterward), the Matrix
         | people decided to build something new from the ground up. They
         | took a few different design decisions, but in my opinion,
         | nothing that would justify building a competing solution and
         | splitting the already thin developer community.
         | 
         | Now we have too solutions, both failing to find significant
         | adoption. I understand that the matrix people probably built
         | their eco system as a hobby, so who am I to criticize them. I
         | just feel so depressed, seeing so much work being done on a
         | very important subject, not fulfilling its potential due to
         | missing focus.
        
           | Arathorn wrote:
           | Speaking as a Matrix person: we're quite happy with our
           | adoption, which is accelerating exponentially, and we didn't
           | build Matrix as a hobby: it's been the team's fulltime day
           | job since 2014. Before that we used XMPP (ejabberd + spark +
           | XMPP.framework etc) and eventually decided to build a totally
           | different architecture: one focused on syncing conversation
           | history, rather than sending instant messages. I don't think
           | it dilutes or splits the thin developer community: instead
           | it's increased interest in open comms enormously (as well as
           | helping spur the XMPP community into improving their stuff).
           | Just as Linux didn't somehow destroy BSD.
        
             | selfhoster11 wrote:
             | I can only thank you for your work. Open messaging
             | ecosystems are much better off for it.
        
             | arendtio wrote:
             | Well, even if I prefer XMPP over Matrix and still disagree
             | over the developer ressources, I wish you the best of luck,
             | because both solutions, being federated, are inherently
             | better than the competition by design.
        
           | acct776 wrote:
           | Was XMPP improved at that time?
           | 
           | Or a mess of nonstandard addons/plugins that you had to match
           | up, like mods in a multiplayer videogame?
        
             | pseudalopex wrote:
             | They said XMPP improved afterward. The point is a combined
             | effort would be in better shape than XMPP or Matrix now.
             | 
             | The problem with XMPP was every client implemented
             | different parts of the standard. The problem with Matrix is
             | every client implements different parts of the standard.[1]
             | 
             | [1] https://matrix.org/clients-matrix
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | Close. It's a mess of standard addons/plugins that you have
             | to match up, like mods in a multiplayer videogame.
             | 
             | Sadly for me, it's also the only modern messenger that has
             | decent desktop clients that don't look like discord. But I
             | guess that this will never change as I seem to be pretty
             | lonely with my want of those.
        
           | jiofih wrote:
           | Because XMPP sucks. It had 20 years to succeed, and failed.
           | Maybe it's time for you to move on?
           | 
           | Last company I worked at that used it internally had
           | thousands of employees in IT and _still_ considered
           | maintaining the jabber server not worth it - a million XEP
           | extensions cannot bring it to the same level as a modern chat
           | client. On every matrix post the xmpp crowd comes out of the
           | woods, but what have you got to show? What's the best cross-
           | platform or web client for it right now? They all look like
           | half-baked ports of long abandoned QT apps made for Linux and
           | still don't support syncing /multi-presence well.
        
             | pseudalopex wrote:
             | Did the company switch to Matrix?
             | 
             | XMPP was pretty successful in the 2000s. More than Matrix
             | so far. There were missed opportunities but the main reason
             | it declined was Facebook and Google decided closed was more
             | profitable than open.
             | 
             | Why exclude native clients?
        
             | selfhoster11 wrote:
             | Messaging underwent an earth-shattering paradigm shift in
             | the past 20 years, so numerous features considered optional
             | back in 2000 are now mandatory when you want any mass
             | market appeal (which is the whole point when messaging is
             | dominated by network effects).
             | 
             | A rework of the FOSS messaging ecosystem was much needed,
             | and Matrix was the one to deliver it and not XMPP. I say
             | the winner takes the crown, especially when the end result
             | is more coherent for users.
             | 
             | The fact is that sometimes the kind of tool you need is a
             | solid monolith built from the ground up with specific
             | objectives in mind, and not a loose accretion of small
             | utilities and extensions.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | I wish Matrix delivered what it promised. But it hasn't
               | yet.
               | 
               | Matrix is coherent if you use the reference server and
               | clients. But so is XMPP if you get them from the same
               | source. And the Matrix reference server needs pretty
               | powerful hardware.
        
               | arendtio wrote:
               | > And the Matrix reference server needs pretty powerful
               | hardware.
               | 
               | That is not a bug, its a feature (or so the Matrix people
               | say).
               | 
               | In fact, part of the Matrix design is a fat server which
               | has a lot more responsibilities by default than an XMPP
               | server. However, I guess a full-featured XMPP server
               | (with MAM, Push, etc.) probably has similar requirements.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | The Matrix people don't say it's a feature. They say the
               | rewrite will fix it.
               | 
               | XMPP with MAM and push doesn't have similar requirements.
        
           | kitkat_new wrote:
           | > They took a few different design decisions, but in my
           | opinion, nothing that would justify building a competing
           | solution and splitting the already thin developer community.
           | 
           | I'd argue that the design decisions are key to the success of
           | Matrix. However I do not think that there must be any
           | splitting. Checkout the XMPP Bridge that matrix.org hosts.
           | 
           | > I just feel so depressed, seeing so much work being done on
           | a very important subject, not fulfilling its potential due to
           | missing focus.
           | 
           | As long as there are people like Eric, there is hope :) I
           | think we have more focus than ever before, even within the
           | XMPP community :)
        
             | upofadown wrote:
             | >Checkout the XMPP Bridge that matrix.org hosts.
             | 
             | Is there a description of how to generate an address on the
             | other network? This sounds awesome. A working bridge gets a
             | Matrix user access to the tens of thousands of federated
             | XMPP servers.
        
               | kitkat_new wrote:
               | Yes, there is: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-
               | bifrost/wiki/Address-sy...
        
             | pseudalopex wrote:
             | The XMPP bridge means the user communities don't have to be
             | split. The developer communities are.
        
         | michaeljelly wrote:
         | Honestly so glad it's a paid service. I'm happy to pay for
         | something I can trust to handle my messages, rather than using
         | them against me to sell ads/send to shady data brokers!
         | 
         | Awesome work Eric, Tulir, and the whole Matrix team too!
        
           | pimeys wrote:
           | I've been in the past few nights trying to build my own
           | Matrix server with integrations to Signal, WhatsApp,
           | Telegram, IRC, Slack et.al. It is quite a lot of work, even
           | with the Ansible script. First was the DNS SRV record, that
           | is needed to federate with matrix.org. And the Signal
           | integration happily sent messages to my friends, but I never
           | got any messages back.
           | 
           | I have quite a lot of experience with Linux and server
           | maintenance. And I know if I put enough time to this, I'll
           | get everything to work eventually. I'm still saying that
           | paying money for somebody else to do this feels like a nice
           | investment at this point. The task of doing everything by
           | yourself is quite tricky.
        
             | pimeys wrote:
             | Need to add now I got everything working. Element running
             | in my own domain, connecting Signal, Telegram, Matrix
             | federation and IRC in a beautiful way.
             | 
             | It is a lot of work, some of the documentation can be a bit
             | tough if you don't know how things work together and
             | especially the DNS setup can take a bit of time to get the
             | federation working.
        
               | aloisdg wrote:
               | If you achieve it, it could be nice to improve the
               | existing documentation.
        
           | spiffytech wrote:
           | $10/mo is steeper than I like for a chat app, but this is so
           | huge to just roll everything into one place, and I like that
           | it's OSS, so I'm happy to pitch in and support the devs even
           | if I'm capable of self-hosting the backend.
        
           | 411111111111111 wrote:
           | The messages still go through the "free" networks, so they're
           | still being used exactly like that.
        
         | pimeys wrote:
         | Thank you for Pebble! It was my main Diabetes app for seeing
         | the current blood glucose directly from my wrist until my
         | Pebble 2 finally died a year ago. It was almost like magic and
         | had a week of battery life.
         | 
         | The commercial matrix bridge is an excellent idea. I was able
         | to get my homeserver running, but it is a hell of a job to get
         | everything working. When it does work, oh boy, it again feels
         | like magic!
        
           | erohead wrote:
           | So good to hear that! Have you considered buying one off
           | ebay? Still some good deals there :)
        
         | littlehugie wrote:
         | Will you Support Threema in the future?
        
         | liminalsunset wrote:
         | On the website it looks like it says Android and iOS via
         | Element [appears to be the renamed Riot.im matrix client]. Is
         | there no custom iOS or Android application for Beeper that this
         | will ship with?
        
           | GekkePrutser wrote:
           | Yeah riot was renamed, as they finally admitted that it was a
           | weird name with negative connotations.
           | 
           | Never understood what was wrong with the name vector by the
           | way. That was even nicer IMO.
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | Where is the open source code for the iMessage bridge?
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | It doesn't exist yet.[1]
           | 
           | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25849040
        
         | ibeckermayer wrote:
         | This is amazing. I had precisely this idea ~6mo ago (but never
         | actually built anything). Excited to see you've done all the
         | heavy lifting for me. I also love the paid model to align
         | interests and the ability to self host. I will definitely be
         | giving this a test run.
        
         | kitkat_new wrote:
         | Kudos to Tulir!!!
        
       | yters wrote:
       | Why isn't there a single app to aggregate and integrate all
       | social media and messaging and email and voice chat platforms?
       | Then it doesn't matter which ones come and go, and people don't
       | need to worry about the plethora of ways to communicate..
        
         | selfishgene wrote:
         | ... because divided you are conquered.
        
         | mrleinad wrote:
         | Because a long time ago, Microsoft bought Skype and created its
         | own communication protocol. It was all downhill from there
         | on...
        
           | yters wrote:
           | But couldn't an app reverse engineer the frontends for all
           | these communication services and create an aggregation
           | overlay? E.g. what Dropbox did with the Mac osx filesystem.
        
             | ivanche wrote:
             | An app definitely _can 't_ reverse engineer the frontends
             | for all these communication services. A skilled developer
             | (or, more realistically, developers) probably can. They're
             | not cheap though.
        
               | yters wrote:
               | Doh of course! Hah I meant devs ;)
        
       | codebutler wrote:
       | Looks awesome, I'm looking forward to trying it out! A couple
       | questions: 1) Is the desktop app electron or native? 2) Is the
       | Mac iMessage bridge open-source?
       | 
       | Thanks!
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | Desktop app is Electron. We will open source the iMessage
         | bridge in a few weeks.
        
           | dawnerd wrote:
           | Dang, was hoping it wasn't electron.
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | So much for that "Native Chat Is Better".
        
       | jnsie wrote:
       | This looks really neat. Would love to know more about how
       | iMessage is integrated and get thoughts on the likelihood of
       | Apple blocking it in the future. But kudos!
        
       | dmcc7897 wrote:
       | I have signed up and will happily pay for this the very second I
       | receive an invite. This is exactly what I need.
       | 
       | The UI appears to be top notch, too.
        
       | ggrelet wrote:
       | I submitted my infos to Nova.chat (same form) a while ago. Do I
       | need to do it again?
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | Nope!
        
           | ggrelet wrote:
           | Waiting for the beta, then.
        
       | gcblkjaidfj wrote:
       | you are only enabling marketers and spammers.
       | 
       | No user will ever use this in the way you are advertising here.
        
         | acct776 wrote:
         | You won't.
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | I may be missing something; I'm jumping at the bits to use
         | something like this, and I'm quite the opposite of spammer -
         | I'm just a nerd with heterogeneous family and friends who
         | refuse to all magically switch to my recommended and
         | _obviously_ superior chat app :P
        
       | jmarinez wrote:
       | Beeper bridges with WhatsApp. Does it mean that one can bypass
       | the upcoming Facebook data sharing requirement by just using the
       | Beeper client?
        
         | jcul wrote:
         | No, it just uses WhatsApp web.
         | 
         | Even if it didn't the data is still passing through WhatsApps's
         | servers.
        
       | philsnow wrote:
       | I mentioned bitlbee elsewhere in this thread, but in case people
       | haven't heard of it, it's a similar beast to Beeper but it
       | bridges chat systems to an IRC client of your choice (you can use
       | an IRC bouncer or whatever else you want to connect to bitlbee).
       | It supports several chat systems https://wiki.bitlbee.org/
       | including apparently Matrix.
       | 
       | I mostly mention it as a historical note because bitlbee's use of
       | IRC as the bridged protocol means that it's of limited usefulness
       | on mobile. It was fantastic for me in the days before smartphones
       | became a thing, but I do at least 50% of my "chat" on my phone
       | these days.
        
         | donio wrote:
         | The use of IRC as the bridge protocol is actually the best
         | feature for me because of the multitude of client options of
         | available including several for Emacs.
         | 
         | I love the text focus and at least for the protocols I care
         | about images and videos are presented as URLs so they are
         | easily accessible.
        
       | gkfasdfasdf wrote:
       | I thought WhatsApp banned thirdparty apps some time ago? How does
       | this work exactly?
        
         | episteme wrote:
         | Could be a wrapper around WhatsApp Web.
        
           | jcul wrote:
           | It is, the matrix WhatsApp bridge uses a reverse engineered
           | WhatsApp web library.
           | 
           | > A Matrix-WhatsApp puppeting bridge. Written in Go using the
           | Rhymen/go-whatsapp implementation of the sigalor/whatsapp-
           | web-reveng project.
           | 
           | https://matrix.org/docs/projects/bridge/mautrix-whatsapp
        
           | gkfasdfasdf wrote:
           | I'm sure it could be done that way, but if it violates TOS
           | then I would be wary that the bridge will be unreliable.
        
             | hansdieter1337 wrote:
             | I had that thought, too. That's the reason that stopped me
             | from implementing sth like that. I think a definitive
             | solution to a cat-and-mice game would be an automated
             | reverse-engineering of the chat apps.
        
       | noxer wrote:
       | 10$/month is absurd
        
         | scrollaway wrote:
         | Absurdly low.
        
       | sarthakjshetty wrote:
       | Another quick question, the webpage looks a lot like Mighty's. Is
       | it designed by the same folks or is it like a design language?
        
       | vini808 wrote:
       | This is really cool however I'm worried about getting banned from
       | discord using for using your service as I believe it's not
       | authorized on discord to use third party client
        
         | acct776 wrote:
         | Write them, tell them to fuck off with that.
        
       | carterschonwald wrote:
       | I assume some part of the iMessage faq is a joke ?
       | 
       | > This was a tough one to figure out! Beeper has two ways of
       | enabling Android, Windows and Linux users to use iMessage: we
       | send each user a Jailbroken iPhone with the Beeper app installed
       | which bridges to iMessage, or if they have a Mac that is always
       | connected to the internet, they can install the Beeper Mac app
       | which acts as a bridge.
        
         | Groxx wrote:
         | Nope: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25852034
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | zufallsheld wrote:
       | I just installed matrix and bridges for telegram, slack and
       | whatsapp using the linked ansible playbook. I used my own domain
       | and a new cheap vps. this took me about an hour. I connected
       | Element on my android phone to my new matrix server and now I
       | have all chats in one app and on desktop. That is totally great
       | and worked far better and easier than I imagined. Well done.
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | How does it work? Most of those protocols are't exactly open.
       | 
       | Also please add support for Google Chat.
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | >This was a tough one to figure out! Beeper has two ways of
       | enabling Android, Windows and Linux users to use iMessage: we
       | send each user a Jailbroken iPhone with the Beeper app installed
       | which bridges to iMessage,
       | 
       | is this not a joke?
        
         | dyeje wrote:
         | Yea, I'm really confused by that FAQ item.
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | Not a joke
         | https://twitter.com/ericmigi/status/1351934418961661959
        
       | heroHACK17 wrote:
       | WUPHF.com 2.0
        
       | olah_1 wrote:
       | If Matrix / Element had a better UX, it wouldn't need "bridges"
       | as the best selling point.
       | 
       | I use other messengers because I find their features to be
       | better. If I preferred Matrix, I would use that without the need
       | for bridges.
        
       | pryelluw wrote:
       | wuphf.com ?
        
         | scottcorgan wrote:
         | this
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | 1) Is this actually live or just a concept. All I get a a survey
       | when signing up
       | 
       | 2) This seems like a security nightmare. Is it?
        
       | asiando wrote:
       | I spent a lot of time and effort merging my chat clients in the
       | Meebo era and afterwards with XMPP proxies and I tried to keep
       | friends from messaging me in 3 apps at once.
       | 
       | I gave up and that's fine. I have at least 4 messaging apps on my
       | phone and I still prefer that over debugging a proxy. A missed
       | message causes real-world problems, so it's important not to mess
       | with the delicate balance that IM already carries.
       | 
       | If the benefit is easier archival and search, give me a solution
       | to that that works in the background rather than a real-time
       | proxy.
        
       | vessenes wrote:
       | Oooh, this is so exciting.
       | 
       | I went down the bridged chat rabbit hole earlier this year when I
       | realized I had to be checking signal, telegram, WhatsApp, WeChat,
       | iMessage and multiple emails to be on top of communication. I
       | stopped when I realized how difficult WhatsApp and WeChat were
       | going to be, though.
       | 
       | I want to pay for this, right now. Ideally double if it will help
       | you launch. :)
        
       | WorldPeas wrote:
       | For those that don't use a macintosh(or don't care about
       | imessage), ferdi is a great free alternative
        
       | recursive wrote:
       | There's a list of logos for supported chat networks. But it
       | doesn't give the names. I recognize about half of them, but it
       | would be nice if they were written in words somewhere.
        
         | bhandziuk wrote:
         | Scroll down to the FAQ                   Whatsapp
         | Facebook Messenger         iMessage         Android Messages
         | (SMS)         Telegram         Twitter         Slack
         | Hangouts         Instagram         Skype         IRC
         | Matrix         Discord         Signal         Beeper network
        
           | recursive wrote:
           | I see it. Thanks.
           | 
           | Still though, I'd like some alt text. It wouldn't even
           | disrupt the layout.
        
       | e-clinton wrote:
       | iMessage integration is interesting but I can't imagine it will
       | last. Not sure what type of wizardry you guys pulled but a cease
       | and desist is likely on its way. Either way, congrats. Really
       | hope it works out as this is very much needed.
        
       | aabbccsmith wrote:
       | I wouldn't use this for Discord, as it requires you to insert a
       | user token (aka self botting - which is against the terms of
       | service). Bar that, the app looks quite promising, but I would be
       | wary of what they are offering.
        
       | uoflcards22 wrote:
       | How do I get started? I put in my email like 10 minutes ago and
       | have received nothing...
        
         | mouldysammich wrote:
         | I was also a little confused, you'll get an email in a bit
         | explaining that there is a queue for signing up and they'll
         | inform you when you're in and that kinda thing.
        
           | uoflcards22 wrote:
           | Yup, just got it. Thanks.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | If there is an iMessage bridge that would be considered a zero-
       | day exploit. There is no official or un-office API for iMessage
       | outside the Apple ecosystem and this is part of security measures
       | by Apple to ensure privacy.
        
         | acct776 wrote:
         | Maybe it works differently than that
        
           | soheil wrote:
           | Looks like they actually send you a jailbroken iPhone
           | physically in the mail to enable iMessage. Not sure how
           | scalable that is.
        
             | acct776 wrote:
             | I think the news they'll generate from it alone will be
             | worth it.
        
             | trinix912 wrote:
             | How exactly does this work?
             | 
             | I find this interesting as it raises so many questions:
             | 
             | Do they just give away free iPhones, or reset it for each
             | user and have them mail it back? What if it gets lost /
             | damaged during shipping? How do they cover the costs of
             | this?
        
               | soheil wrote:
               | I may be wrong on the physically mailing you the iPhone.
               | It could be that they ask for your Apple login and just
               | log you in to a jailbroken iPhone on their premise.
        
         | andoriyu wrote:
         | Well, no. iMessage protocol was reverse engineered, but they
         | patched it and make really hard to do crypto part of it. Hard
         | enough that people stopped trying - after all you still
         | required an existing registration from Apple's device and there
         | was no guarantee it stops working again.
         | 
         | What they do is run ichat2json every time there is a new
         | message in a folder and AppleScript to send outgoing messages.
         | It requires a macOS with already authenticated Messages.app.
         | 
         | It's not using any unofficial APIs, it's just a wrapper around
         | iMessage client on a mac.
        
         | morpheuskafka wrote:
         | Not sure how it would be a zero-day exploit.. you're allowed to
         | run whatever code you want on your Mac, and if you bypass the
         | sandbox by giving Full Disk Access or whatever other
         | permissions this uses, it follows that it will be able to read
         | your iMessage database.
         | 
         | As for the iPhone bridge, that does use a jailbreak which is,
         | of course, an exploit--one that Apple has patched and the patch
         | deliberately not applied to the device in question.
        
       | dilly_li wrote:
       | "Beeper has two ways of enabling Android, Windows and Linux users
       | to use iMessage: we send each user a Jailbroken iPhone with the
       | Beeper app installed which bridges to iMessage, or if they have a
       | Mac that is always connected to the internet, they can install
       | the Beeper Mac app which acts as a bridge."
       | 
       | This answers my question! One iPhone for each Beeper user, no
       | wonder the $10 monthly fee!
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | Multiprotocol clients and transports are a dead end.
       | 
       | Most walled garden messaging service developers are openly
       | hostile to third-party clients - this goes back to early 00s and
       | ICQ war against QIP and other much better clients. Modern
       | technology and app distribution model has made it far easier for
       | service owners to enforce their rules of using their service.
        
         | kitkat_new wrote:
         | This is a single protocol client, which can be replaced by any
         | Matrix client.
         | 
         | This is why it is so good
        
           | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
           | What you refer to is called 'transport',such transports for
           | xmpp exist for more than 20 years.
           | 
           | They didn't fly because service owners don't really want them
           | to. Sometimes services resist actively, sometimes passively.
           | The protocol you use is irrelevant, xmpp, matrix, email,
           | whatever - this is never-ending game of catch up which the
           | service owner will win, because he _needs_ users to use their
           | stock app and all their metadata.
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | Bridges make the server a multi protocol client.
        
             | kitkat_new wrote:
             | not really, they are all individual pieces put together -
             | independent of the server
        
           | philsnow wrote:
           | The problem is not the client at all. Look at the history of
           | libpurple/gaim. My chat setup used to be an irc client
           | connected to bitlbee (which uses libpurple), and (way back
           | when) the various chat system owners would either
           | intentionally or unintentionally break the integrations
           | fairly regularly.
           | 
           | They have no incentive to keep their API stable since they
           | control their official client.
           | 
           | On top of this, when you try to bridge disparate comms
           | platforms together, you end up with the client having only
           | the common subset of functionality, or with the client
           | emulating functionality clumsily.
           | 
           | The example I'm thinking of is in iMessage, if you're on a
           | group text thread with people who are on SMS instead of
           | iMessage, "tapback" reactions (the thumbs-up, exclamation,
           | haha, etc ones) show up as "<name> emphasized '<the full text
           | of the message they !!ed>'".
        
             | kitkat_new wrote:
             | it's way harder to make all Matrix clients support all
             | protocols and somehow sync them properly than to write a
             | App Service that can be plugged to a server.
        
       | bkovacev wrote:
       | Is there a plan for supporting Viber?
        
       | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
       | can you give us a ballpark figues of how much of a vps is needed
       | to get started? you have given an ansible script and all but
       | minimum specs would be nice along with users it can handle
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | 2-3gb RAM + 50GB disk. Small CPU is ok.
        
       | tylermenezes wrote:
       | I've been using this for several months now, and it's one of the
       | biggest digital quality-of-life improvements I made in 2020.
       | Getting modern chat networks to interact is never something I
       | thought I would see. Congrats to Eric and co!
        
         | acct776 wrote:
         | What's the worst glitch you've had, if you don't mind me
         | asking?
        
           | tylermenezes wrote:
           | In the very early days the bridges were less reliable, and
           | there was no warning if a bridge disconnected, so there were
           | a few times when I didn't realize a message didn't go through
           | for a few hours.
           | 
           | That's been fixed now :)
        
       | kevincox wrote:
       | I love the idea of hosted bridges (in fact I was thinking about
       | starting my own service like this) and I'm glad that the bridges
       | themselves are open source. However I would much rather that the
       | client was open source as well (It would make it way easier to
       | get all my friends to Matrix with a well polished client).
       | 
       | Basically $10 a month for access to bridges that funds bridge
       | development is great however I don't want some of that to fund
       | the development of a closed-source client. If the client was
       | opened, or had work upstreamed to an open source client I would
       | be all on board.
        
       | da_big_ghey wrote:
       | I use weechat for this and it works fine. Slack, Discord, Signal,
       | etc. all bridge fine (though Signal is a bit messy). And of
       | course, IRC. The one thing I haven't figured out how to connect
       | is MS Teams, and it doesn't look like this service offers it
       | anyway; is there a reason to use it?
        
         | acct776 wrote:
         | Not for you, apparently.
        
       | monkeynotes wrote:
       | Does this support RCS flavours of SMS?
        
       | yingbo wrote:
       | Are there already many similar apps? I used two: Rambox
       | https://rambox.pro/ and Franz https://meetfranz.com
        
         | 50 wrote:
         | https://texts.com - it's not released yet but you can sign up
         | for early access.
        
           | navanchauhan wrote:
           | Anyone who is already in the early-access?
           | 
           | This looks like an interesting alternative and I am looking
           | forward to trying both of them out once I get in
        
             | KishanBagaria wrote:
             | Yep, check out some tweets by our users here:
             | https://twitter.com/TextsHQ
        
               | navanchauhan wrote:
               | Ah you are the creator! I had a couple of questions:
               | 
               | 1. Are you using unofficial APIs or do you have custom
               | bridges much like Beeper?
               | 
               | 2. How would you deal with messaging apps like Snapchat?
               | 
               | Also, you were right in saying "app invites are the new
               | currency of SV"[0]. Keep up the good work!
               | 
               | [0] https://twitter.com/KishanBagaria/status/129475427399
               | 8172160...
        
               | KishanBagaria wrote:
               | > Are you using unofficial APIs or do you have custom
               | bridges much like Beeper?
               | 
               | All platform integrations were developed in-house from
               | the ground up. We don't use the Matrix protocol but
               | support it.
               | 
               | > How would you deal with messaging apps like Snapchat?
               | 
               | We don't plan on supporting Snapchat since it's single
               | session only.
        
         | folkrav wrote:
         | Those are glorified browsers wrapping the web based clients in
         | dedicated "tabs". AFAIK it looks like Beeper hosts a
         | matrix<->service bridge between those platforms, and their
         | client actually unifies messages in a single inbox. Seems to be
         | different.
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | No, those are totally different. They're just Electron shells
         | around web versions of chat apps. They're also extremely
         | resource-intensive and buggy.
         | 
         | Someone forked Rambox and kept it FOSS, and it's called
         | Hamsket.
        
           | folkrav wrote:
           | There is also an OSS hard-fork of Franz called Ferdi, for
           | anyone interested. Been using it for some time, I don't love
           | nor hate it.
        
       | halfjew22 wrote:
       | >How in the world did you get iMessage to work on Android and
       | Windows?
       | 
       | >This was a tough one to figure out! Beeper has two ways of
       | enabling Android, Windows and Linux users to use iMessage: we
       | send each user a Jailbroken iPhone with the Beeper app installed
       | which bridges to iMessage, or if they have a Mac that is always
       | connected to the internet, they can install the Beeper Mac app
       | which acts as a bridge.
       | 
       | Can you elaborate? Surely this is satire or I'm missing something
       | super obvious.
        
       | polishdude20 wrote:
       | Does this solve the whole security issues with WhatsApp and such?
       | It seems like just a proxy so it's not any more secure than the
       | apps it accesses right?
        
       | whycombagator wrote:
       | I thought I'd seen this before[0]
       | 
       | Also:
       | 
       | > I make no claims to this being production level reliability.
       | It's very much beta software. Very beta
       | 
       | @erohead does this quote from you 6 months ago still hold
       | true?[1]
       | 
       | This is a software I'd definitely use & pay for if it was
       | polished/worked.
       | 
       | I quickly looked at the GitLab source and couldn't find the code
       | for the iMessage bridge. How does that integration work?
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23693371
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23694933
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | It's 6 months better now! We haven't open sourced the iMessage
         | bridge yet, will do that in a few weeks.
        
       | meibo wrote:
       | > we send each user a Jailbroken iPhone with the Beeper app
       | installed which bridges to iMessage
       | 
       | Huh, I wonder how this is sustainable. I assume there is a
       | greater cost than 10 bucks a month for this option? I wouldn't
       | want to be the one managing the logistical effort of that!
        
         | gpmcadam wrote:
         | Expect Apple to come down on this like a tonne of bricks and
         | render the whole thing impossible very quickly.
        
           | jhatemyjob wrote:
           | Never gonna happen as long as checkra1n can pwn the latest
           | iOS. Cat and mouse game. MobileSubstrate/Substitute/libhooker
           | is too powerful a platform.
        
         | bredren wrote:
         | It says you can run a Mac app but presumably this is to bridge
         | in users outside the Apple ecosystem.
         | 
         | So probably it is the cheapest iPhone that has a year or two
         | worth of iOS support left and just sits plugged in.
         | 
         | While a novel hack, I would never want my iMessage
         | conversations being bridged to a service outside the Apple
         | ecosystem.
         | 
         | While I have no doubt this service will do their best with
         | security, it relies on leaking data from Apple.
         | 
         | Imagine if someone built an insecure bridge for FaceTime Audio,
         | and the caller did not know the recipient was using a bridge
         | service.
         | 
         | Any reliance on Apple's massive investment in the privacy and
         | security of a FaceTime transmission goes out the window and
         | into the hands of an unknown 3rd party.
         | 
         | It also tricks the sender into thinking that their secure
         | iMessage conversations are what they look like.
         | 
         | I know when i see a green chat bubble, that low level people at
         | Verizon can access the content of the messages.
         | 
         | I see this as a big problem, where the goal of letting more
         | people in for UX reasons undermines expectations of privacy
         | from those uninvolved in the use of the product.
         | 
         | People are mention Discord being unhappy with this, but I
         | imagine Apple would see this as an abomination.
        
           | morpheuskafka wrote:
           | > It also tricks the sender into thinking that their secure
           | iMessage conversations are what they look like.
           | 
           | If you send a message to someone, you are assuming that
           | anything can happen to it unless you have a legal agreement
           | to the contrary. They could have a keylogger (malware or
           | device-management), someone looking over their shoulder, take
           | a screenshot, forget to sign out of the library computer,
           | etc.
           | 
           | The end-to-end-encryption on iMessage gets defeated for most
           | people anyway if they have iCloud Backup on.
        
             | bredren wrote:
             | You are right, this has always been true with taking a
             | photo of a screen and printing it out on your printer.
             | 
             | This defeats any truly end-to-end encrypted conversation.
             | 
             | I think you are also right to compare this service to
             | malware.
             | 
             | It takes content intended for a secured environment
             | maintained by one party and exfiltrates it into another.
             | 
             | This other environment is protected by an entity that is
             | neither bound by the reputation damage of failing to keep
             | the information secure, nor on the receiving end of funds
             | that can be directed to keep it secure.
             | 
             | Since 100% of the iMessage content, text and photos flows
             | through this environment, it is not like occasionally
             | taking photos of conversations. It is the wholesale
             | duplication of the data.
             | 
             | iCloud Backups are also encrypted, and are the security of
             | that system is maintained by the first party the
             | conversations were originally sent by.
        
             | jiofih wrote:
             | > The end-to-end-encryption on iMessage gets defeated for
             | most people anyway if they have iCloud Backup on.
             | 
             | iCloud backups are encrypted using a unique key which is
             | only unlockable with the user password, which is itself
             | protected in hardware. So no, it doesn't defeat the
             | purpose.
        
               | pseudalopex wrote:
               | Syncing messages through iCloud uses end to end
               | encryption. Backups don't.[1]
               | 
               | [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
        
               | jiofih wrote:
               | Keep reading:
               | 
               | > Messages in iCloud also uses end-to-end encryption. If
               | you have iCloud Backup turned on, your backup includes a
               | copy of the key protecting your Messages. This ensures
               | you can recover your Messages if you lose access to
               | iCloud Keychain and your trusted devices. When you turn
               | off iCloud Backup, a new key is generated on your device
               | to protect future messages and isn't stored by Apple.
        
           | mattmcknight wrote:
           | >I would never want my iMessage conversations being bridged
           | to a service outside the Apple ecosystem
           | 
           | I think setting up an API outside the Apple ecosystem would
           | be fine. It's crazy that we not only don't have a standard
           | protocol for messaging anymore, the primary services don't
           | even allow for integration.
        
           | pseudalopex wrote:
           | They're using unsupported iPhones.[1]
           | 
           | [1] https://twitter.com/ericmigi/status/1351934418961661959
        
         | lxe wrote:
         | I was wondering how this is solved... and here's the answer!
         | Wish there was a free/foss DIY solution to this.
        
       | khimaros wrote:
       | this is a really cool project, and a great curation effort. there
       | are ansible scripts which they recommend for self-hosting:
       | https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy --
       | most of the bridges (mirrored to their GitLab org) appear to be
       | unmodified from upstream.
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | The upstream bridges are written and open sourced by our lead
         | developer Tulir https://github.com/tulir/
        
       | yur3i__ wrote:
       | The main appeal of this to me is the whatsapp part. If I can
       | reliably self host this and get rid of whatsapp on my phone,
       | replacing it with an open source app then that's awesome
        
       | scrollaway wrote:
       | Holy crap, this is inspiring. The blog post
       | (https://medium.com/@ericmigi/the-universal-communication-bus...)
       | really says it all.
       | 
       | I've sent you an email. It's great to see the problem being
       | addressed the right way.
        
       | saltybytes wrote:
       | Isn't Beeper similar to Franz [0]?
       | 
       | [0] https://meetfranz.com/
        
       | dundercoder wrote:
       | I was just looking yesterday for a unified chat client,
       | specifically for slack and discord. Looks interesting.
        
       | AnonHP wrote:
       | This looks nice, but $10 a month is a tough sell for me (I use
       | only two of the supported platforms everyday, with about 20
       | messages total in a day, on average).
       | 
       | Also, why does the site ask for an email address to get started?
       | An explanation of why along with the on boarding process would be
       | useful.
       | 
       | That aside, the Meet Our Team section on the homepage shows "This
       | is some text inside of a div block." on the right. Is this an
       | oversight or is it some inside joke?
        
         | anoa_ wrote:
         | Looks like that's a bug that occurs when javascript is
         | disabled. It should have another two entries.
         | 
         | I assume they're now aware of it :)
        
         | chickenpotpie wrote:
         | Charging per network makes sense to me. I would only use this
         | for iMessage and signal, so it's only worth a buck or two a
         | month for me. If I was using everything offered I would gladly
         | pay $10 a month.
        
         | smt88 wrote:
         | I would pay $100/mo for it.
         | 
         | I think it's just not a pain point for everyone. In a lot of
         | countries, "everyone" uses a single platform and it's not a big
         | deal.
         | 
         | As a US user of 5 apps, some for business, it's just a mess and
         | a constant source of friction.
        
           | trinix912 wrote:
           | > In a lot of countries, "everyone" uses a single platform
           | and it's not a big deal.
           | 
           | > As a US user of 5 apps, some for business, it's just a mess
           | and a constant source of friction.
           | 
           | Depends on what countries you have in mind, but it's pretty
           | much the same elsewhere. Messenger, Instagram DMs, WhatsApp,
           | Snapchat, Viber, Discord, Telegram, Signal... You just need
           | to have all of them and this seems like a very elegant
           | solution for having all your messages in one place.
        
           | jackson1442 wrote:
           | Agreed. I would kill to not have to use Snapchat's app to
           | talk to some of my friend groups. Same goes for Instagram.
        
           | scrollaway wrote:
           | > _I would pay $100 /mo for it._
           | 
           | For a good quality one? Same. Signed up.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | What happens if I have an iPhone and want to send/receive text
       | (not iMessage)? Is this officially supported or text messaging
       | only works if you have an Android?
        
       | BFatts wrote:
       | Trillian!
        
       | bfors wrote:
       | If I had a social life I'd be really excited about this
        
       | bichiliad wrote:
       | I've been really excited for something like this, and seeing that
       | it's built on top of Matrix is also exciting. One of my biggest
       | gripes as of late is how hard it is to, for example, limit your
       | time on Instagram without cutting yourself off from Instagram's
       | chat. I can tell my friends to send me texts as much as I want,
       | but there's always a message or two in Instagram that I don't see
       | until a day or two later than I want to.
        
         | michaeljelly wrote:
         | I have this exact problem too! Having tried Beeper, and now
         | using it every day, I can confirm it achieves this perfectly.
         | 
         | I now just check Beeper in batches (there's a great shortcut
         | for cycling through unreads), rather than having endless apps
         | to check.
        
           | bichiliad wrote:
           | I can't tell you how great this is to hear! I'm really
           | excited to give it a try.
        
       | kuter wrote:
       | Some of the supported messaging apps doesn't allow automation or
       | provide APIs. I appreciate the work that went into supporting
       | those. But I don't think it would be possible to have consistent
       | support for some of those chat apps. Things like API changes or
       | just getting you server ips banned would disrupt service.
        
       | css wrote:
       | I used to use an app for this called IM+ in the early days of
       | iOS, looks like they're still around: https://www.plus.im
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | Is this actually active now?
       | 
       | The FAQ implies it's an available product. Going through the form
       | indicates I may be invited to use at some unspecified point in
       | the future... :-/
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | Interesting that "eroheard" comment seems to be pinned to the top
       | of this thread. Is this a new feature by HN and only available to
       | YC company founders?
        
         | flyGuyOnTheSly wrote:
         | I doubt it.
         | 
         | Probably just a lot of upvotes in a short period of time.
         | 
         | It's a pretty cool idea.
        
           | soheil wrote:
           | As far as I remember every time I post a comment it always
           | shows at the top for about a minute saying "0 minute ago",
           | but in this case it was the second comment right after I
           | posted. Anyone else noticed this?
        
       | usbfingers wrote:
       | While I think the core focus of Beeper as a cross platform
       | messenger is great, the bigger positive here in my opinion is a
       | matrix client with good UX and design.
       | 
       | The user experience portrayed here is much more in line with what
       | is required to get people less technical on one
       | decentralized/federated network, such as matrix.
       | 
       | I'm currently working towards the same effort, in a very
       | different stage of development, in that regard with
       | https://github.com/syphon-org/syphon.
       | 
       | Props to Eric, Tulir, and the team for making such a good looking
       | client!
        
         | adkadskhj wrote:
         | Wait, did they do anything for the Matrix client? Their "Get
         | Beeper" section makes it seem like they just use the normal
         | Matrix client.
         | 
         | > Available on MacOS, Windows, Linux iOS and Android via
         | Element
         | 
         | Which i assume is https://element.io/ ?
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | I've been following Syphon, it looks great!
        
       | npmisdown wrote:
       | Could someone shed a light on economics of working on such kind
       | of a project?
       | 
       | Aren't developing third-party client for the entity which you do
       | not control and somehow compete with is typically a futile
       | experience?
       | 
       | Doesn't it go against most of ToS-es directly (e.g.
       | Discord/WhatsApp happily ban accounts using third-party clients)
       | or indirectly (I guess no proprietary chat platform will be
       | exactly happy having third-party clients that compete with their
       | official and controlled app).
       | 
       | I mean how people justify building a business on it given that it
       | essentially means that they have to play on the other's people
       | playground by the rules which can be changed at any time. Like
       | tomorrow Slack would decide to disallow any third-party apps and
       | you're done.
        
         | anticensor wrote:
         | Discord allows relay bridges (using bot accounts), but not
         | puppeting.
        
       | jakelazaroff wrote:
       | Doesn't using this with Discord run a risk of your account
       | getting banned for using a third-party client? That's why the
       | Cordless developer shut down the project:
       | https://github.com/Bios-Marcel/cordless
        
         | kitkat_new wrote:
         | t2bot.io hosts a Discord bridge and to my knowledge it is
         | officially allowed by Discord (else they could not have more
         | than 100+ bridge users).
         | 
         | So I imagine there might be the possibility of it being allowed
         | for Beeper as well.
        
           | Half-Shot wrote:
           | t2bot.io uses webhook/bot based bridging which at least
           | doesn't trigger the "no custom clients" clause (as you aren't
           | using any real user account tokens)
           | 
           | The broader question of whether bridges are allowed seems to
           | be broadly yes as there are many other bridges out there for
           | Discord (IRC/slack ones) and those haven't been shut down
           | either.
           | 
           | I think so long as you aren't abusive, Discord don't care.
        
         | stryan wrote:
         | They're using HalfShot's appservice bridge I think, which works
         | entirely through the standard Discord API with bot users. IIRC
         | Discord is very much aware of the project.
         | 
         | Discord's generally fine with anything using it's API/gateways
         | as long as it's NOT logging in as a "real" user.
        
         | acct776 wrote:
         | After a disclaimer, that sounds like a problem between the user
         | and the Discord people.
        
           | jakelazaroff wrote:
           | Yes -- I would be the user, and I would like to avoid that
           | problem.
        
       | maelito wrote:
       | > Interesting, please tell me this is based on matrix
       | 
       | > Oh, the matrix logo among others, good thing at least
       | 
       | > YES !
        
       | xx4xx4 wrote:
       | i hope the company supports parity purchasing power for the 3rd
       | world countries... idk maybe $5 a month.. it would be very
       | helpful..
        
       | arsome wrote:
       | If I'm not mistaken, if you're using this with Signal you'd
       | better be running the bridge yourself or your messages are
       | unencrypted on someone else's server.
        
       | dkman94 wrote:
       | Is this the wuphf rebrand?
        
         | xlance wrote:
         | Just watched this episode earlier today, my exact thought ^^
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | Please, someone do this for email.
        
         | tracyhenry wrote:
         | Doesn't your phone's email app support multiple email accounts?
         | Gmail and Outlook both support mail forwarding too?
        
           | recursivedoubts wrote:
           | The cross-platform client aspect of it (linux in particular)
           | is what I'm interested in.
           | 
           | I used mailspring for a while but it just was too buggy for
           | me unfortunately.
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | Already in the works :)
         | https://github.com/JojiiOfficial/Matrix-EmailBridge
        
         | fangyrn wrote:
         | what do you mean?
        
       | jcul wrote:
       | This looks great.
       | 
       | I'm just in the middle of trying to set up a home server using
       | dendrite to do exactly this (mainly for fun).
       | 
       | This looks really well done and polished though.
       | 
       | It's great to see services like this using matrix as it can only
       | mean positive feedback for the protocol / server code.
       | 
       | Is it using synapse or dendrite (or something else) for the
       | server?
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | we use synapse right now. Hopefully moving to dendrite when
         | appservice support is added
        
       | lc3sim wrote:
       | Congrats on the launch! My understanding of the space is that
       | there is a great desire for "super powered" messaging -
       | especially over text. Any chance "send later" is a part of your
       | roadmap? Or possible to implement using your API?
        
         | erohead wrote:
         | definitely on roadmap
        
       | hansdieter1337 wrote:
       | I guess it's only a matter of time until Facebook et al fight the
       | bridges in form of lawsuits and API changes. Some years ago
       | Facebook's chat was accessible via the Jabber protocol. I think
       | they won't like users switching away from their apps and miss the
       | control and ad revenue.
        
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