[HN Gopher] AXPbox Alpha Emulator
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       AXPbox Alpha Emulator
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2021-01-23 16:36 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | jandeboevrie wrote:
       | Version 1.0.0 was released just yesterday:
       | https://github.com/lenticularis39/axpbox/releases/tag/v1.0.0
       | 
       | Code Contributions, bug reports and testing are very welcome
        
       | mrlonglong wrote:
       | es40 works just fine for me with OpenVMS, but I will take a look
       | at this one to see if I can add it to my library of emulators.
       | Kudos.
        
         | jandeboevrie wrote:
         | It's a fork of es40. New build system, more stable networking,
         | bug fixes, but don't expect miracles just yet. 10 year old c++
         | codebase is not something you magically speed up overnight
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | I remember thinking that Alpha might eventually topple x86. At
       | the time, there was no x86-64, and Linux was still buggy, so the
       | RISC platforms were thriving...and Alpha was at the top. Then
       | Microsoft made NT run on Alpha. All in the early to mid 90's.
       | Then the 1-2 combination of the Itanium distraction followed by
       | the Opteron + 64 bit Linux, and then Alpha died.
        
         | avhception wrote:
         | I got my first computer around the time that happened, a humble
         | Pentium 1.
         | 
         | It was only much, much later that I learned about Linux, then
         | FreeBSD and the whole history behind UNIX, RISC machines and
         | all that - at a point when it was mostly history.
         | 
         | I even acquired some machines out of pure fascination. I got an
         | IBM RS/6000, a Sun Ultra45 and a Blade 100.
         | 
         | Still gotta get a MIPS and, especially, an Alpha machine.
         | 
         | These machines seemed so much more serious compared to PCs, I
         | was blown away when I discovered there had been 64 bit
         | architectures in the mid-90s! To this day, PCs seem like toys
         | to me with their gimmick-y firmware.
         | 
         | It always left me wondering about what could have been. And
         | Alpha may have been the most promising back in the day!
        
           | spijdar wrote:
           | What's more, there were 64 bit _laptops_ in the mid 90s. Not
           | particularly mobile ones, but if you could tolerate a 7 pound
           | behemoth, you could get a 200 MHz 64 bit SPARC processor with
           | 512MB of RAM in  '96/97. The AlphaBook with an Alpha
           | processor that was announced in '95 comes even earlier.
           | https://www.vaxbarn.com/index.php/other-bits/555-tadpole-
           | alp...
           | 
           | One thing that always strikes me about workstations and
           | (especially?) these laptops is that, while the CPUs
           | themselves weren't always much faster than competing Intel
           | ones, they always seemed to have much better I/O options. The
           | SCSI drives and controllers seemed to get much better
           | throughput with lower CPU utilization, which pays dividends
           | to how the overall system performs.
           | 
           | A well designed workstation is more than just the sum of its
           | parts. While these workstations/servers were arguably
           | overpriced and it's not surprising they failed to the cheaper
           | Wintel machines, they just seemed more well rounded...
        
             | nineteen999 wrote:
             | > The SCSI drives and controllers seemed to get much better
             | throughput with lower CPU utilization, which pays dividends
             | to how the overall system performs.
             | 
             | Indeed - my employer at the time acquired 10 AlphaPC 164SX
             | motherboards with 21164PC CPU's and after adding a nice
             | amount of RAM and a nice fast Ultra2 SCSI drive they felt
             | really fast. I remember running the early GNOME 1.0 desktop
             | on it and it was just so responsive.
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | There is a deep irony to it. DEC basically created the
         | minicomputer market by eating away at the low end of the
         | mainframe industry. They would later be myopic when the same
         | was done to them. They almost completely missed the PC
         | revolution. They never quite grasped that the future was in
         | commodity silicon and the desktop form factor.
         | 
         | The VAX was a processor-on-a-chip by 1985, several months
         | before the Intel 386 came out. A complete 32-bit machine that
         | could fit in a desktop form factor. It never really happened.
         | In the late 80s they would weakly pursue the high-end
         | workstation market. But a cheap, mass-produced VAX was
         | anathema.
         | 
         | Alpha would follow the same pattern, and by then PCs were
         | already the established architecture. It would have been too
         | late to veer into the consumer market, probably.
        
           | avhception wrote:
           | It's interesting to compare this to what is happening with
           | smartphones / ARM and Intel / x86.
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | If Apple were white-labeling M1's for anyone to use, I'd
             | expect full-blown panic at Intel. Intel can at least breath
             | a little knowing that Apple and AWS are going to keep their
             | ARM CPUs in-house.
        
         | mech422 wrote:
         | Yeah - I had high hopes for the alpha as well. I think it had
         | more to do with Dec not getting price competitive with x86
         | before x86_64 took off. I don't really think the Itanium
         | factored into it - it always seemed more of an 'also ran' then
         | a real threat.
         | 
         | I think I might still have some Dec Multia's with Alpha 166MHgz
         | out in the garage somewher. Neat lil boxes.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | When Compaq bought out DEC they shuttered all Alpha
           | development in favor of Itanium. Continuing to develop a
           | competing ISA would put them in a bad place as an Intel
           | customer.
           | 
           | All this happened before x86_64 was a thing.
        
             | p_l wrote:
             | The way it was done was so abrupt that Windows 2000 nearly
             | released with Alpha version on standard CD (which would be
             | AFAIK 64bit clean, unlike the older ones), but essentially
             | the whole NT/alpha team (which was part of Compaq) was told
             | close to RTM release "sorry, your project was closed".
             | 
             | Later, Compaq had to restart production, and HP even had to
             | introduce updated chip, because some customers, especially
             | VMS, didn't want to move to _slower_ Itanium machines.
             | 
             | I have even heard that part of Itanium's flop was how often
             | older EV6 machines were running circles around new Itanium
             | ones...
        
           | tyingq wrote:
           | _" I don't really think the Itanium factored into it"_
           | 
           | There's a sibling comment that mentions Compaq putting in the
           | final nail. But, my impression was that more customers might
           | have switched to Alpha servers (from HP-UX, Solaris, etc) if
           | they didn't think Itanium was going to win the market. It
           | also gave more credibility to x86-64 by sort of confirming
           | that old-school RISC was dying. Itanium did end up with a
           | heavy stigma, but there was a time when many thought it would
           | be the future.
        
             | lsllc wrote:
             | There's some interesting discussion of the ultimate demise
             | of the Alpha here:
             | 
             | http://alasir.com/articles/alpha_history/compaq_epoch.html
        
         | mailslot wrote:
         | Intel also blatantly stole patented technology from DEC. The
         | Pentium onward, IIRC, ripped off entire designs. When Compaq
         | eventually acquired DEC, they cancelled all of the lawsuits and
         | gave Intel complete access to DEC's patents. They also gave
         | Intel DEC's raced out ARM chip that they built for Apple.
        
       | lsllc wrote:
       | Interesting, worth also pointing out the SIMH project which can
       | emulate the VAX, MicroMAX, PDPs etc and many others:
       | 
       | https://github.com/simh/simh
       | 
       | For the VMS-nostalgic, VSI now have OpenVMS running on x64 Intel
       | (and in fact apparently already released it as 9.0!):
       | 
       | https://vmssoftware.com/updates/state-of-the-port/
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-24 23:00 UTC)