[HN Gopher] My 2 Year Journey to $10K MRR
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       My 2 Year Journey to $10K MRR
        
       Author : ronyfadel
       Score  : 415 points
       Date   : 2021-01-27 15:22 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bannerbear.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bannerbear.com)
        
       | fudged71 wrote:
       | I'm curious how much development, marketing, and maintenance is
       | needed to maintain this level of revenue. How long can you coast?
       | How long can you go without new features? I know that may not be
       | the goal and there are other reasons to work on it, but
       | hypothetically...
        
       | sixhobbits wrote:
       | > In my case, I found that the more documentation I wrote the
       | more conversions I got.
       | 
       | I think this is key and great documentation is one of the most
       | underrated parts of business. Stripe nailed this. Digital Ocean
       | nailed this. Most places don't or can't.
       | 
       | [note - personal bias as I have a startup in this space, but it
       | seems very clear to me and I think there's a win-win in
       | businesses focusing more on their docs in terms of improving
       | global efficiency _and_ improving sales and trust in that
       | business - it 's just really low hanging fruit in a majority of
       | cases I've seen]
        
         | guzik wrote:
         | > Stripe nailed this. Digital Ocean nailed this
         | 
         | I would like to add Unity 3D engine to that list.
         | 
         | But that sounds great - I love writing documentation and
         | tutorials (how many bugs and holes I am finding during that
         | process!), so I have another justification for working on more
         | articles for my product. I usually underestimate that 70% of
         | traffic comes from Google looking for stuff like "measuring
         | temperature in python".
         | 
         | fyi: I am building "Arduino for Biosignals"
         | (aidlab.com/developer)
        
         | speg wrote:
         | Reminds me of 2005 and trying to figure out jQuery vs.
         | Mootools.
         | 
         | jQuery had lots of docs with examples, and I never was able to
         | wrap my head around Mootools.
        
           | nnadams wrote:
           | I second this exact comparison.
           | 
           | Being able to try and customize jQuery UI components was also
           | what sold me back then. I think simple web-based demos in
           | your docs go a long way in explaining what your product
           | actually feels like to use. Even a demo that's a bit
           | contrived is useful. People will even just mindlessly play
           | with demos. They are very worth doing in my opinion.
        
         | winrid wrote:
         | This is why https://fastcomments.com has an example above the
         | fold on the homepage.
         | 
         | Good docs will be coming soon...
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | Similar to a sibling comment, I really enjoy this page & site
           | - even though I was already expecting it to be good.
           | 
           | Well done to whatever tasteful individuals designed and
           | executed/approved those decisions.
        
           | klysm wrote:
           | Nice and clean but the lack of syntax highlighting bothered
           | me more than it should have.
        
           | chrisweekly wrote:
           | Wow! FastComments.com is hands-down the best landing page
           | I've encountered in a LONG time. Crystal-clear what it is,
           | why it's a good choice, how it works, and a set of FAQs
           | answering virtually all the questions / doubts / potential
           | objections I could think of. Bookmarked; I may well use this
           | for my own site when I get around to re-launching it. Bravo!
        
         | PaulWaldman wrote:
         | I found that technical blog posts and documentation have made
         | me aware of brands I otherwise wouldn't of known existed.
         | 
         | Digital Ocean was great at this in the early days. I don't know
         | if they haven't put as much effort into as of late or changes
         | in SEO, but I don't seem to get funneled there by search
         | engines as frequently.
        
           | cosmodisk wrote:
           | https://www.digitalocean.com/community/pages/write-for-
           | digit...
           | 
           | This is a fantastic way to get your marketing into
           | stratosphere. I'm seeing more and more companies doing it.
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | Being able to create beginners of your product helps create
         | market and retain customers like nothing else.
        
       | de11 wrote:
       | Great post. Website and product looks sleek.
        
       | luthfur wrote:
       | "I would do one week of code, then spend the following week
       | tweeting / blog posting about what I shipped -- then repeat"
       | 
       | This right here is a very important organizing principle for
       | indie devs. It's more effective than say doing both coding and
       | promotion in parallel by dividing the the day into two.
        
         | cercatrova wrote:
         | In contrast, splitting the day helps to pivot more easily. I've
         | had situations where I thought I wanted to work on a certain
         | feature but when I talked about it, people didn't want that
         | feature. So if I spent a week implementing it, it would have
         | been a waste of my time.
        
         | odonnellryan wrote:
         | This works for larger companies and larger teams, too.
        
         | geniium wrote:
         | This is very interesting IMHO !
        
       | buzbe_uk wrote:
       | Great story - thanks for sharing that. So many useful learnings
       | in there - and the final product looks slick! How did you decide
       | on pricing in the end?
        
       | ronyfadel wrote:
       | A little note: I'm not the blog post's author but I've contacted
       | Jon to reply to questions in the comments.
        
       | waylandsmithers wrote:
       | > Don't target your SaaS at other indie hackers. It's a small
       | niche of people who like to build things.
       | 
       | This is what I've never totally understood about product hunt. Is
       | the goal to get feedback from other creators, or launch to an
       | audience that isn't necessarily your target market?
        
         | notretarded wrote:
         | Yes
        
       | cercatrova wrote:
       | I've been following Yongfook for the past 2 years now, super cool
       | guy, I'm glad that he got Bannerbear to click, I know he was
       | trying out many different ideas over the years.
        
       | tunesmith wrote:
       | I like the note about alternating dev weeks and marketing weeks,
       | and using the marketing weeks to market what you developed the
       | week previous. Documentation could also be considered part of the
       | marketing bucket, too.
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | MRR = monthly recurring revenue
        
         | jspash wrote:
         | TY!
        
       | oksurewhynot wrote:
       | was this really hard to read for anyone else? The spacing and
       | layout is really hard to make sense of.
        
         | Enginerrrd wrote:
         | Yes. I really don't understand the constant war against text.
        
         | ativzzz wrote:
         | Agree, don't think this format makes for a very legible or
         | compelling post, but I guess his target market probably likes
         | it.
        
         | jcun4128 wrote:
         | yeah felt the same, didn't feel like I was reading a blog more
         | like the landing page with how big/sectioned everything was.
         | read on 1920x1080
        
         | allenu wrote:
         | It's really beautiful, but I admit that I'm not a fan of the
         | "bite-sized" formatting that's common these days. I found
         | myself scrolling through it to look for some more depth, but
         | the mix of embedded self tweets with short sentences left me
         | with more questions than anything.
        
         | artembugara wrote:
         | same.
        
       | devortel wrote:
       | The video generation demo is pretty neat but it took nearly 2
       | minutes to finish rendering. I'd be interested to know how this
       | scales under high workloads and how updates can be deployed
       | without disrupting long running processes like this one.
        
         | thegeomaster wrote:
         | For updates, you can do your classic blue-green deployment:
         | wind down traffic for instance (remove from load balancer etc),
         | wait until it finishes outstanding jobs, deploy update, resume
         | routing traffic, repeat for every instance (or do it in
         | groups).
        
       | cooervo wrote:
       | amazing, kudos!
        
       | sdoering wrote:
       | Wow. Great write up and cool timeline format. I had never heard
       | of the "Open Startup" [1] idea and clicked - and was stunned
       | (positively) about the transparency.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.bannerbear.com/open/
       | 
       | Edit: Is this a thing now showing the numbers for the world to
       | see? I like it - but just have no prior experience.
        
         | voiper1 wrote:
         | I first heard about it with buffer and ghost
         | https://buffer.com/revenue https://ghost.org/about/
         | 
         | I think buffer also made their various iterations of salary
         | formulas public.
        
           | eric_khun wrote:
           | We're hiring engineers and an EM btw ;)
           | 
           | https://journey.buffer.com/#vacancies
        
         | ronyfadel wrote:
         | It's a trend, yes:
         | 
         | - https://baremetrics.com/open-startups
         | 
         | - https://openstartuplist.com/
        
       | tnt128 wrote:
       | Curious is this using imagemagik for backend image generation?
       | What about videos?
        
       | humbleMouse wrote:
       | Interesting, although from reading the blog I still don't know
       | what banner bear does except for taking an audio files and
       | creating video out of it.
        
         | fastball wrote:
         | They generate Open Graph content (images and videos) for you.
         | OG is what you see when you post a link in a messaging app or
         | similar and it pops up with an image + description (link
         | preview).
         | 
         | This service automates the image generation part so you don't
         | have to. Basically it makes link previews for your site sexier
         | / more engaging in a (semi) automated way.
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | Great explanation! I had no clue what open graph was, and
           | this succinctly explains it.
        
       | waynesonfire wrote:
       | how did you get your first paying customer?
        
         | JamesAdir wrote:
         | https://www.bannerbear.com/blog/how-to-get-your-first-25-saa...
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | On its face this seems handy: automatically generate pleasing
       | social-media images for different links on your site instead of
       | fiddling with photoshop by hand, and throw in an integrated CDN
       | to serve them
       | 
       | But the pricing, for the above, seems insane: $99/mo for the
       | standard plan
       | 
       | So I assume I'm missing something about what this service can do,
       | and what value it provides. Can anyone fill me in?
        
         | encoderer wrote:
         | Here is the value:
         | 
         | If you were going to produce these images anyway, using some
         | other means, it's probably costing you more than $99 a month.
        
           | brundolf wrote:
           | I guess if you're a company with a full-time designer,
           | probably paid $30-$50/hr, depending on the number of images
           | you need that may work out
        
             | albertgoeswoof wrote:
             | It's for small business that can't afford a dedicated
             | designer. At the moment you pay a freelancer a couple grand
             | to do your branding every few years and you make these
             | designs yourself. $99/month is cheaper and is 80% as good
             | as a freelance designer every couple of years
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Off Topic. I love the way how this is being presented.
       | 
       | But there is something about the design, along with the main
       | BannerBear website seems to be off scale. I had to Zoom Out twice
       | to make things looks normal.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | > I had to Zoom Out twice to make things looks normal.
         | 
         | 80% (two zooms out from default in FF) is my default, since I
         | found that was by far my most common choice per-site, changing
         | it more often than not.
         | 
         | I also have quite a few at 67%, and only the odd site (HN for
         | example) at 100%. Just seems to be a trend for everything to be
         | 'big' and (to me and you) 'zoomed-in'-looking.
         | 
         | This is consistent (as in I do the same thing, it doesn't sync
         | unfortunately) across my Linux desktop & (retina) MacBook Pro,
         | before someone says something like 'well Linux is janky like
         | that, try a Mac, they just work' :).
         | 
         | (I use 'Zoom Page WE' in Firefox for persisting per-site zoom
         | levels: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/zoom-
         | page-we)
        
         | bberenberg wrote:
         | Huh you are exactly right. As soon as I zoomed out twice it
         | looked perfect.
        
         | sneakymichael wrote:
         | I find that a lot of sites seems to be designed on, and looked
         | at internally on, large-screen desk setups (e.g. 27" iMac), so
         | everything looks somewhat huge on smaller laptop-size screens
         | (e.g. 13" MacBook).
        
           | ksec wrote:
           | That was my first thought as well. Designer must have been
           | large screen display.
        
         | franciscop wrote:
         | Funny you say that, this is one of the few sites that is
         | perfect at 100% for me. I normally have all the sites at 130%
         | (actually that's my default), might have something to do with
         | hiresolution/scaling in linux though.
        
       | drawkbox wrote:
       | What a great write up and very open and honest. The timeline
       | format is amazingly clean and I am a sucker for timelines.
       | 
       | I think the product is great and the name bannerbear really is
       | memorable. I think that is a major key along with a great
       | product. You have to be able to remember the name easily without
       | effort and the two word format works well for human memory. Being
       | high up in the alphabet is smart as well in terms of lists, it
       | may not help much later but early on naming like this is
       | important.
       | 
       | > _I would do one week of code, then spend the following week
       | tweeting / blog posting about what I shipped -- then repeat_
       | 
       | That is gold for indie/small business value creation and
       | extraction. Many times marketing is like audio/sound for games,
       | an afterthought for the programmer/creator/product person. Here
       | you have a system that locked it in but only _after_ creating,
       | how it is supposed to be. I think it is a great way to avoid
       | burnout as well, you are refreshed on both creating and promoting
       | on those weeks.
       | 
       | I believe that there is value creation
       | (product/creative/engineering) and value extraction
       | (marketing/business/finance) and it has to be in that order.
       | There has to be enough value created to value extract and this
       | system is quite nice.
       | 
       | More excellent point:
       | 
       | > _The best way to make money on the internet is to ignore
       | everyone telling you how to make money on the internet, and just
       | do some hard work._
       | https://twitter.com/yongfook/status/1328865845527805952
       | 
       | > _Knowing your target market is good, knowing your target 's Job
       | to Be Done is better_
       | 
       | > _Jobs to Be Done is only something you understand after talking
       | to users_
       | 
       | > _Upgrade your user, not your product_
       | 
       | This is how you make products people love. Even if it is only a
       | few minutes a day, when people use a product if it is fun or
       | refreshing and makes their lives easier, that is game mechanic
       | that is replayed. Same goes for games, it is all in the basic
       | game mechanic, it has to be fun. Focus on the lives of the
       | user/player of your product. I like to parallel that to like a
       | fun game or a comicstrip, bring joy to people even if it is only
       | a very small slice of their day, it will be a good part of their
       | day. Make your product a "friend" of the user/player.
       | 
       | You have all the little details that make your presentation fun
       | like a good indie game with details and easily approachable. Even
       | your subscribe form has a refreshing way to look at the captcha,
       | rather than "confirm you aren't a robot" it is "confirm
       | Humanity". Nice touch, but your presentation is a series of nice
       | touches. Well played, these things are hard to instill in company
       | cultures and usually only present in smaller more product people,
       | or even gaming, focused projects.
       | 
       | I just love everything presented, it has that _thing_ that makes
       | it fun.
       | 
       | Congrats on your success Jon Yongfook I am sure you are headed to
       | much higher ground with your North Star in focus all along.
        
         | KennyFromIT wrote:
         | > upgrade your user, not your product
         | 
         | What does this mean, exactly?
        
           | reggieband wrote:
           | I'll take a crack at a possible meaning.
           | 
           | Imagine you have a product with 10 features. You want to
           | generate growth. Your first instinct might be: time to add a
           | new feature (upgrade the product). Another approach might be
           | to investigate your users behaviour. You might find users are
           | only using 5 of your features. You may then choose to educate
           | your users on the other 5 features you already have (upgrade
           | your user).
           | 
           | This is one of the purposes of marketing. You would be
           | surprised how often a customer will say "I didn't even know I
           | could do that".
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | If you click on it on the article you'll get an explanation
           | and this https://d33wubrfki0l68.cloudfront.net/23f092c7da7ef6
           | dcd0b36a...
        
       | locallost wrote:
       | It looks very polished. The pop effect when done is very cool. If
       | I may ask, who are the people that need this? QR code generator
       | is kind of clear, but for e.g. image generation? Bloggers maybe?
        
       | eliseumds wrote:
       | Just signed up and am finishing the integration. One thing
       | though: I don't think 30 requests is enough in the free plan,
       | there are many features to be tried out. After reaching the
       | limit, I'm still not confident that I should commit to your
       | service. Maybe you could shove a watermark in there after the 30
       | free requests? Just so that people can keep testing out different
       | templates, colour combinations, dimensions, stuff like that. Our
       | designer wants to play around with the template creator now but I
       | had to create some throwaway accounts for him to do so.
       | 
       | Congratz on your journey, you're in a market that has been barely
       | explored, so much potential.
        
       | 0898 wrote:
       | Off-topic I know, but how can I make my blog look like this? So
       | many posts like this on Hacker News have this clean, confident,
       | gentle-exposition style. (As you can tell I don't really have the
       | design vocabulary, but hopefully looking at the site you know
       | what I mean.) Is there a particular Wordpress theme that people
       | use? Or is this another CMS like Ghost?
        
         | atom-morgan wrote:
         | I'm guessing he designed it himself but if you have Twitter you
         | can ask him directly: https://twitter.com/yongfook
        
         | klohto wrote:
         | https://www.bannerbear.com/blog/the-bannerbear-marketing-sit...
         | This should explain the stack
        
           | devlopr wrote:
           | "All the javascript on the marketing site is good ol' JQuery"
           | 
           | JQuery works perfectly here.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | The creator's bio says he's a professional designer, so he
         | probably designed it himself
        
         | config_yml wrote:
         | Probably using Tailwind CSS.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-01-27 23:00 UTC)