[HN Gopher] Shift to Remote Work Based on 7k HN Who Is Hiring Posts
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       Shift to Remote Work Based on 7k HN Who Is Hiring Posts
        
       Author : shinkim0914
       Score  : 106 points
       Date   : 2021-01-28 17:04 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.shinkim.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.shinkim.io)
        
       | brdd wrote:
       | During a pandemic, the only roles that you can hire for are ones
       | that are remote (by definition, more or less). So this is not
       | really charting a "shift". The question is, post-pandemic, will
       | _new_ roles continue to be permanent remote or will they
       | gravitate back towards office roles?
       | 
       | As someone who has posted many remote Who is Hiring posts, I know
       | that they've had little bearing on our company's decision process
       | to move new roles back in-person or stay remote.
        
         | shinkim0914 wrote:
         | In the data, I've seen companies marking jobs that are remote
         | only during the pandemic as "onsite", "COVID remote", "remote
         | until COVID is over". I've classified those type of posts as
         | _NOT_ remote in this analysis. For example, I 'd assume if you
         | are a NYC based company, and want everyone to be onsite after
         | the pandemic, you wouldn't hire someone from Alaska without
         | sharing the onsite expectation upfront (i.e. marking your job
         | post as "onsite").
        
           | skeeter2020 wrote:
           | That's not what the GP is saying though. You won't even
           | bother posting to fill a job that can't e done remote, so you
           | need to consider the volume of postings as well as the
           | composition.
        
             | shinkim0914 wrote:
             | That's a fair point that the overall volume needs to be
             | considered. And during Apr-Jul it was true that hiring
             | volumes were subdued, and it is likely that onsite-centric
             | companies simply weren't able to hire at all. However, job
             | post volumes exceeded pre-pandemic volumes from August and
             | onwards. This suggests that there was actually a change in
             | behavior. The job post volume charts didn't make it into
             | the article but can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com
             | /spreadsheets/d/1jlLJkZJz3NBeyjylzTYA...
        
         | pieterhg wrote:
         | "A recent IBM survey found that 61% of workers want to continue
         | working from home permanently even after the COVID-19 pandemic
         | is over." https://mytechdecisions.com/facility/ibm-61-want-
         | permanent-r...
         | 
         | Some other surveys show a considerable percentage of business
         | owners, executives and managers at companies think the same.
         | 
         | I can attest to the growth. I run a job board called Remote OK
         | and you can see the explosive rise in job posts and revenue
         | here from around May 2020: https://remoteok.io/open
        
           | eli wrote:
           | That's funny coming from IBM
           | 
           | https://qz.com/924167/ibm-remote-work-pioneer-is-calling-
           | tho... (2017)
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | 908B64B197 wrote:
       | The best thing we did was bite the bullet and stop hiring remote
       | folks using some CoL metric invented by HR.
       | 
       | The pool and quality of candidates we interviewed pretty much
       | went up overnight and we started getting a lot of quality
       | internal referral.
        
         | shinkim0914 wrote:
         | To clarify, your company didn't stop hiring remote, it just
         | stopped making a cost-of-living adjustment to salary offers to
         | remote candidates? Did management also increase salary for
         | existing employees who lived in ow CoL areas?
        
           | 908B64B197 wrote:
           | We stopped making cost-of-living adjustment to salary offers
           | to remote candidates.
           | 
           | Wasn't a company-wide move however.
        
       | offtop5 wrote:
       | I'm all for this, I might even be able to move to a cheaper
       | country and do the full digital nomad thing. I sort of want to
       | find a way to save a minimum of $100,000 per year in order to
       | retire within the next 10 years.
       | 
       | I definitely could see the government creating incentives to get
       | people back to work. The big issue of people no longer commuting,
       | is millions of people working auxiliary industries which are
       | getting screwed right now. The guy who works at the cafe next to
       | your office, the landlords who own buildings, even car mechanics.
       | 
       | I suspect by the end of 2021, we'll see more 50% work from home,
       | particularly for new engineers.
        
         | onion2k wrote:
         | _I suspect by the end of 2021, we 'll see more 50% work from
         | home, particularly for new engineers._
         | 
         | I like remote working, and I've done it on and off for more
         | than 2 decades. It suits me.
         | 
         | In my experience, mentoring junior devs and new hires on my
         | projects is _much_ harder for everyone involved when you 're
         | not in the same office. Sometimes you're lucky and get someone
         | who'll speak up and ask questions when they get stuck, but
         | often ( _especially_ with juniors) people will just try to
         | figure things out on their own in order to not look bad at
         | their job or incompetent or something. Some devs would rather
         | spend a whole day on a problem and only bring it up in the
         | following day 's stand up than show they can't solve it alone.
         | That is really bad for a project. I find I have to poke the
         | quieter juniors regularly on Slack just to make sure they're
         | OK, but then people get annoyed about being micromanaged. This
         | is something I really want to solve...
        
         | wikibob wrote:
         | Check out Puerto Rico.
         | 
         | Only jurisdiction in the entire world where an American tax
         | subject can go and pay ZERO federal income tax.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | > I'm all for this, I might even be able to move to a cheaper
         | country and do the full digital nomad thing. I sort of want to
         | find a way to save a minimum of $100,000 per year in order to
         | retire within the next 10 years.
         | 
         | As someone from a "cheaper country", a crazy amount of these
         | jobs dries out when they figure that they'll need to deal with
         | your tax/labor law employment situation.
         | 
         | There's still plenty of remote work, just make sure you don't
         | go into this completely blind.
        
           | offtop5 wrote:
           | Okay, cheaper American city !
        
             | thatfrenchguy wrote:
             | Sadly most american cities are cheap for a reason, unless
             | you're into suburban life obviously.
        
               | dudul wrote:
               | One of these reasons is often the lack of jobs. Suburbs
               | are actually often fairly expensive since they try to
               | bring the good of the country (individual houses, bigger
               | lots) closer to the city where good jobs are located.
        
               | offtop5 wrote:
               | Actually I found Chicago to be extremely affordable, and
               | really lively. The absolute friendliest people on earth.
               | 
               | If remote work holds up I expect to see San Fran's real
               | estate market, at least it's rental market collapse
        
               | shinkim0914 wrote:
               | The cost of living in Chicago is amazing for a Top 3
               | metro. My theory has always been that the winter weather
               | discount is baked into the CoL.
        
               | pchristensen wrote:
               | Chicago has a wealthy, top-tier global city of 500k
               | inside a depressed Rust Belt city of 2.5M. There's
               | significantly less economic and population pressure on
               | the core global city.
        
               | offtop5 wrote:
               | Such a great place, I try to tell, particularly young
               | people how important picking the right city is. If you
               | pick a bad City, you're going to end up not being able to
               | afford to live your life will be needlessly stressful,
               | you won't be able to find a partner. But if you pick a
               | good city live can be pretty good
        
           | 908B64B197 wrote:
           | > As someone from a "cheaper country", a crazy amount of
           | these jobs dries out when they figure that they'll need to
           | deal with your tax/labor law employment situation.
           | 
           | Why not make your laws more friendly?
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | It's not about friendliness, it's about difference. As soon
             | as the legal situation changes, many companies immediately
             | get cold feet.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | Reforming an entire country's tax and employment law to
             | enable a few hundred people to work for companies too lazy
             | to comply with the law is impractical at best. It's an edge
             | case, and many of those laws are there to protect workers
             | anyway.
             | 
             | Frequently the issue isn't so much that compliance is
             | extraordinary difficult, it is that there is no section in
             | the HR manual for handling it, and they don't want to deal
             | with it. Most of the time it would take two days of labor
             | at most, and a small percentage of the employee salary to
             | make it kosher. In Canada it is so common that there is an
             | entire industry that will arrange legal employment of
             | Canadians by foreign corporations with no local presence.
             | Most US companies don't even want to hear about how easy it
             | is to comply.
        
         | rhacker wrote:
         | We need to convert the "ice-cream trucks" of my youth into
         | drive by coffee shops... lol - except without the music, more
         | like an app saying they're coming. Free business idea if anyone
         | is listening. Put your order in on the phone.
        
           | shinkim0914 wrote:
           | Yes! Drive-by Blue Bottle coffee trucks please!!
        
           | sensitive-ears wrote:
           | We already have that where I live. It's an espresso machine
           | in a van, they drive by offices in the morning and then stop
           | and parks and other communal spots during lunch
        
             | dont__panic wrote:
             | Espresso trucks/vans seemed to be a big thing in the EU
             | when I lived there, but don't seem to have much of a place
             | in the US. Maybe it's due to the low walkability of the US
             | and tendency to travel via car? Or maybe it's hard to get
             | the licensing for it?
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | I just wish they'd bring back milk delivery, like in the old
           | days, but 24/7.
           | 
           | I ran out of cream for my coffee at 3AM in Amsterdam. But of
           | course there's a 24/7 nitrous oxide delivery company in
           | Amsterdam:
           | 
           | https://amsterdamlachgas.com/
           | 
           | I'm not a customer, but I would only consider it if they'd
           | actually deliver fresh cream without any nitrous oxide at
           | 3AM, to keep up the pretense that the N2O was actually
           | intended for making late-night whipped cream.
           | 
           | But no, they brashly deliver incriminating accessories like
           | balloons and "Slagroomspuit" dispensers. But no cream! Fuck
           | that.
           | 
           | https://amsterdamlachgas.com/lachgas-toebehoren/
           | 
           | Somebody should start a 24/7 milk and cream delivery service.
           | DeliverMOO!
           | 
           | I think you could make a killing delivering 24/7 fresh milk,
           | cream, and dairy accessories like breakfast cereal and
           | chocolate mix.
        
       | austincheney wrote:
       | From looking at various HN comments working from home is
       | appealing due to only one factor: personality. It appears
       | economics, commute, child care issues, martial status, and other
       | personal indicators are largely irrelevant. People that can
       | handle being away from social interactions appear to love working
       | from home while people who need social interaction do not
       | regardless of whether all other personal indicators are
       | stressors.
        
         | wobbly_bush wrote:
         | Or perhaps those are the most vocal people. The other people
         | might just be trying to wait things out instead of being
         | particularly vocal about it.
        
       | 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
       | Very interesting take.
       | 
       | Would be cool (and likely even more dramatic) to see the chart
       | going back 10(?) years.
        
         | shinkim0914 wrote:
         | Indeed! :)
        
       | parentheses wrote:
       | HN who's hiring represents the most progressive companies. The
       | numbers are deceiving. Though the shape of the chart is still
       | correct
        
       | parentheses wrote:
       | HN who's hiring represents the most progressive companies. The
       | numbers are deceiving. Though the shape of the chart is likely
       | correct
        
         | shinkim0914 wrote:
         | I agree that the directional trend is more important than
         | absolute numbers. Though I will say there are a fair number of
         | traditional employers hiring on HN (e.g. Disney, NASA, Oracle,
         | USDS).
        
       | stakkur wrote:
       | This would seem to be a lagging indicator, not a predictor.
        
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       (page generated 2021-01-28 23:01 UTC)