[HN Gopher] The untold story of 'circle of trust' behind world's...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The untold story of 'circle of trust' behind world's first gene-
       edited babies
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2021-01-30 05:42 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sciencemag.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencemag.org)
        
       | little_panda wrote:
       | I'm feeling bewitched by this entire story of rejection of He
       | Jiankui. Could someone here please describe in layman's terms
       | what's wrong with the _ethics_ of germline editing?
       | 
       | Edit: yes it's gonna be crazy expensive and 10+ years will pass
       | before the tech is ready for mass use, I realize that.
        
         | Nasrudith wrote:
         | I got downvoted for expressing this opinion before but the only
         | real issues are implementation related.
         | 
         | #1: The technology isn't mature enough and has some
         | "mistargetting" that adds or deletes where it shouldn't.
         | 
         | #2: It is a reckless disregard for human life to not do
         | generational animal trials before humans. If we cannot say make
         | mice redfurred or immune to a mouse disease without major side
         | effects like vastly increased cancer risk doing so in humans is
         | unconscionable.*
         | 
         | *Medical ethics has a bit of weirdness in that if someone is
         | certainly doomed otherwise it is more permissible to try
         | something crazy.
         | 
         | If we could accessibly edit DNA mistakes with no more risk or
         | difficulty than say preventing blood type mismatch related
         | miscarriage then it having a few people with "bad traits
         | carried onto offspring" wouldn't be a big deal.
         | 
         | It is often en vogue to complain about it cementing a class
         | divide but under that logic education is unethical because it
         | priveledges those who can afford it over those who cannot.
        
           | ficklepickle wrote:
           | Your attempt at whataboutism failed.
           | 
           | It is not at all equivalent. In developed countries,
           | education is accessible to most or all. (The USA is not a
           | developed country by this measure)
           | 
           | If you aren't worried about humanity splitting into multiple
           | species along economic lines, I don't know what to tell you.
           | I guess the film Gattaca was just a fun romp for you? I guess
           | you must assume you will be one of the "haves" and to hell
           | with everyone else, if you get yours?
        
         | ficklepickle wrote:
         | We don't know all the potential implications. These genes will
         | be passed on to their children. What if it causes disease?
         | 
         | Not to mention the splitting of humanity into separate species,
         | based on wealth.
         | 
         | It is a whole mess of ethical concerns. I am astonished that
         | you can't see that.
        
         | JesseMReeves wrote:
         | Human overconfidence about sums it up.
        
         | mechEpleb wrote:
         | It boils down to the fact that there are large potential (if
         | improbable) downsides to messing with DNA, and people have a
         | strong cognitive bias against actively inflicting harm vis a
         | vis just allowing harm to happen on its own.
         | 
         | I personally don't think it's possible to prevent this kind of
         | thing in the long term, so everything ranging from edited
         | children born with horrible disabilities to deleting some
         | potentially beneficial mutation paths in the human genome from
         | existence is going to happen anyway.
        
         | 1996 wrote:
         | People don't like that it's permanent, and transmitted.
         | 
         | If you have money, you can make your kids AIDS (and Cholera,
         | and Smallpox) resistant.
         | 
         | They see that as "unfair", and conveniently forget money buy
         | high education and network.
         | 
         | Some other people disagree for religious reason - they say it's
         | "playing god", but I do not understand their arguments.
         | Humanity has done selective breeding for centuries, and nobody
         | ever complained.
         | 
         | It's just doing the same with better methods, as the CCR5
         | mutation discussed in the article was not created by humans,
         | but naturally selected.
        
           | gmfawcett wrote:
           | > Humanity has done selective breeding for centuries, and
           | nobody ever complained.
           | 
           | Nobody has ever complained about eugenics? About master races
           | vs. inferior breeds of human, or about hereditary caste
           | systems? I think you need to brush up on your history before
           | making such claims.
        
       | 1996 wrote:
       | > After his talk, He immediately drove back to Shenzhen, and his
       | circle of trust began to disintegrate
       | 
       | Sad to see how the West keep pushing it's agenda and values down
       | the throat of other countries.
       | 
       | Hopefully China will keep advancing science, while the West goes
       | into another dark age due to its religions.
        
         | cat199 wrote:
         | > Hopefully China will keep advancing science, while the West
         | goes into another dark age due to its religions.
         | 
         | .. given this and the uighur thing, they certainly do seem to
         | have a knack for atheist eugenics. Opium of the masses and the
         | inevitable march of dialectical materialism, amirite?
        
           | 1996 wrote:
           | > Opium of the masses and the inevitable march of dialectical
           | materialism, amirite?
           | 
           | You have different values, good for you.
           | 
           | Some of us prefer science and progress. You live in your
           | country with your values, please do not export them on us and
           | we will do the same.
           | 
           | The rest of the world is free to opt in China generosity. I
           | am sure one belt one road will help Africa more than all your
           | charities and religious missions combined.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2021-01-31 23:00 UTC)