[HN Gopher] Balthazar Personal Computing Device, a 13" RISC-V la... ___________________________________________________________________ Balthazar Personal Computing Device, a 13" RISC-V laptop Author : SamWhited Score : 51 points Date : 2021-02-05 19:50 UTC (3 hours ago) (HTM) web link (balthazar.space) (TXT) w3m dump (balthazar.space) | xiphias2 wrote: | I'd happily buy a RISC-V laptop, but I think it's too early, | mobile phones and servers will come first. Also the artist | rendering is ugly, I would expect an ultra-light laptop from a | low power architecture. | | I want to see how it competes with Apple's M1 processor in speed | (especially that the web page writes that it's a fast laptop) and | power utilization. | duskwuff wrote: | > I want to see how it competes with Apple's M1 processor in | speed (especially that the web page writes that it's a fast | laptop) | | That's a goal, not a specification. The project hasn't chosen a | processor. They aren't even sure it'll be RISC-V. | m463 wrote: | I think risc-v might work best as a server | | For phone/desktop/laptop a rough spot would be the GPU. And | possibly perf/watt. | | The M1 meanwhile most likely has billions of dollars of | development behind it. | xiphias2 wrote: | I don't see why RISC-V couldn't have billions of dollars | behind it in 10-20 years. | | For Chinese phones I don't see any better architecture right | now, as they can't depend on ARM forever, it's too risky for | them. | wk_end wrote: | Isn't China pretty heavily invested into MIPS with the | Loongson? Is there any good reason for them to drop that | for RISC-V? | xiphias2 wrote: | RISC-V has a huge effort behind it to run all available | open source software. Even though there's a MIPS Android | port, it just doesn't have the amount of backing that | RISC-V is getting from hundreds of companies (basically | all big companies) | spijdar wrote: | I'd expect less activity around the MIPS port because it | is, by and large, already fully functional and a first | class citizen of Android, while RISC-V is still being | fully bootstrapped. | | Further, software like Chrome/Chromium and V8 already | have functioning MIPS ports, which will be (a lot of) | additional work not currently being performed for RISC-V. | | Compared to RISC-V, almost everything in the Linux | ecosystem should already "just work" on MIPS. I think | it's fair to ask why there wouldn't be more development | of MIPS, which is effectively a Chinese owned ISA at this | point, since it's more mature than RISC-V, if not as | "exciting". | xiphias2 wrote: | To quote Elon Musk: ,,The most entertaining outcome is | the most likely''. | | I see just the opposite when I look around Reddit: MIPS | is dying. Google Play services is not updated on it, and | I don't see why people would port new games on it. | | You need neural networks running efficiently to run all | the face swap algorithms (V in RISC-V was for vector | support originally), GPUs supported (again a RISC-V GPU | ISA extension is in development), JIT acceleration (J | extension). If it's not exciting for developers, it won't | win for consumer devices. | 1MachineElf wrote: | >For all children 9-99 | petee wrote: | It's worth pointing out that this is a NLNet Foundation funded | project; they seem to back useful projects, from the ones I've | seen personally | duskwuff wrote: | In case it wasn't clear to anyone: this is a product _very_ early | in the planning phase, to the extent that many of the features | are unspecified (no processor has been chosen, they aren 't even | certain on whether it'll be RISC-V or ARM), underspecified to the | point of being unintelligible ("detachable USB gender-changer | dongle"), or outright ridiculous (SSH-based communications | between the keyboard and CPU). | | I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a product here. This does | not have the smell of success on it. | ianai wrote: | Like seriously what would an ssh client running on the keyboard | even achieve? Maybe they're thinking of encrypting it. But | keyloggers running at the OS level don't care. Or is this to | force people to only use their keyboards? Or maybe it'll just | add a billion to their SPAC buyout. | swiley wrote: | I guess you could have a wireless keyboard without some of | the bluetooth security issues? | codys wrote: | SSH would not be the way to accomplish that. | striking wrote: | For anyone else who wants to take a peek for themselves at the | concerns raised in this comment: | https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:... | | Another thing that doesn't seem to line up with reality is the | idea that they might convince Nvidia to make their stuff FOSS | enough to be included in this project. | NovemberWhiskey wrote: | Yeah - clicked on this expecting to see vaporware; was not | disappointed. | arduinomancer wrote: | There's gotta be some reasoning behind those but when you put | it that way it sounds like some hilarious marketing speak. | | "We're putting blockchain technology in the trackpad" | | "Machine learning in the power button" | CameronNemo wrote: | I assumed that when I read the words riscv and laptop, but then | I saw nlnet was backing the project. I wonder what they are | hoping to get out of the project. | Hyp3rion wrote: | > While being versatile and robust it also follows CERN OSHL, | GNU-GPL, FOSS, EOMA, ISA and even CC guidelines | | This is almost the most concerning part. They're treating | FOSS like it's some kind of standard. It's not. FOSS just | means software that is free and open source. Something is, or | isn't FOSS. You don't follow some standard to deliver a FOSS | product. | philipkglass wrote: | It's getting hugged to death. | | Mirror: | https://web.archive.org/web/20210205204013/https://balthazar... | | Can it possibly be be used with Libreboot? It would be nice to | have some newly manufactured hardware in laptop form that | Libreboot can use. | duskwuff wrote: | > Can it possibly be be used with Libreboot? | | No. Libreboot lacks support for any of the hardware under | consideration by this project. | | Libreboot is essentially a dead project. It only supports a | limited number of Penryn-era (roughly 2007-2010) Intel laptops, | and -- strangely -- the RK3288C-based Chromebook C210. | CameronNemo wrote: | Can libreboot target any ARM SoCs? It seems like u-boot with a | verified boot path is not a common configuration, while the | coreboot ecosystem has a number of security oriented payloads. | philipkglass wrote: | The Libreboot wiki lists one ARM based system as supported, a | particular Chromeboook: | | https://libreboot.org/docs/hardware/c201.html | spijdar wrote: | I think it's fair to point out libreboot is a fork off | coreboot, and while libreboot is basically a dead project | at this point, coreboot development continues. Chromebooks | tend to use coreboot natively, and on some chromebooks, you | can recompile and reflash coreboot, sometimes with no | binary blobs. | | Google makes this (reflashing the firmware) surprisingly | easy in many cases, although there are often many caveats | to running linux/alternative firmware on chromebooks, to | the point it's kind of hard to recommend buying one for | this purpose. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-02-05 23:00 UTC)