[HN Gopher] Creeping as a Service
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       Creeping as a Service
        
       Author : dshipper
       Score  : 178 points
       Date   : 2021-02-09 19:45 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (every.to)
 (TXT) w3m dump (every.to)
        
       | transitivebs wrote:
       | Def reminds me of https://www.flock.network as well
        
       | smit2300 wrote:
       | The content here is definitely a useful meditation on what
       | people's core ideals are over time, but I think it paints a
       | really shallow image of human beings. Of course people's Twitter
       | bios change over time, they're a roughly 25-word blurb, not a
       | perfect representation of the individual running the account.
       | People are allowed to feel some topics need more limelight than
       | others at certain times of history, that doesn't mean they're
       | some horrible vulture using the cause for personal gain. Just
       | because you take Bernie2020 or BlackLivesMatter out of your
       | Twitter bio doesn't mean you stop caring about those things, it
       | just means you changed your Twitter bio.
        
       | AlphaWeaver wrote:
       | If you want to use this service without signing up, you can
       | browse someone's profile directly at
       | https://spoonbill.io/data/<username>
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | is this by design, or just lazy coding?
        
         | gfody wrote:
         | facilitating crass creeping as a service where one monitors
         | spoonbill for removal requests for the really interesting stuff
        
       | jameslk wrote:
       | I've been wondering when something like this would be made. I've
       | felt that it would be even more disgusting to track changes on
       | LinkedIn profiles (imagine these changes being purchased by
       | companies where you're interviewing).
       | 
       | Unfortunately the web is open and there's nothing really to stop
       | it, sans regulations and trust that they will be enforced. Once
       | your life is on the internet you might as well assume everything
       | you say or do is being tracked in some version control repository
       | for humans.
        
         | technick wrote:
         | I did a vendor review last year for a SaaS which tracks the
         | changes of your employees linkedin profiles (they also
         | partnered with monster and a few other job boards). The service
         | is used by HR departments to measure employee happiness and
         | risk rate which person is looking.
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | How is this disgusting? I'm pretty out of the loop with social
         | media. But I'm assuming the major networks have the concept of
         | a "private" profile. And I assume that such profiles wouldn't
         | be available on this service.
         | 
         | If I'm wrong about the existence of private profiles, then the
         | problem isn't this service. The problem would be publishing
         | information publicly that they wish to remain private.
        
       | McMini wrote:
       | If they track 10,000,000 accounts, does this mean they make
       | millions of request towards Twitter every minute? Isn't that
       | against Twitters terms?
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | They might be paying Twitter for enterprise API access.
         | 
         | https://developer.twitter.com/en/products/twitter-api/enterp...
        
           | vincentmarle wrote:
           | I'm not seeing anything about pricing. How do they make
           | money?
        
             | filoleg wrote:
             | > I'm not seeing anything about pricing. How do they make
             | money?
             | 
             | Right next to the "Apply for enterprise access" button,
             | there is a giant block of text saying "Our enterprise
             | solutions are customized with predictable pricing".
             | 
             | Basically, they make money, because that API access isn't
             | free. They don't list the actual price there because, as it
             | is the case with most enterprise sales, there is no fixed
             | pricing, and they work out individual deals on a case-by-
             | case basis (which is based on the number of requests you
             | expect your API to make per day/hour, volume discounts,
             | long-term contract discounts, etc.).
             | 
             | Long story short, there is a price on it, but to find out
             | what it is, you will have to apply. And the price you will
             | get will probably not be representative of the price other
             | people/enterprises get, but at least you will know what it
             | will cost for your specific company/project.
        
       | dvt wrote:
       | I wouldn't really call tracking public biography diffs "creeping"
       | though. Either way, this may be interesting, but is there an
       | actual viable business here?
       | 
       | Would anyone _pay_ to see this information tracked? Maybe
       | journalists?
        
       | spongechameleon wrote:
       | While this made me feel creeped out at first, that "metadata" all
       | seems like the public information that we intend to share when we
       | signup for a service like Twitter.
        
         | remram wrote:
         | Basic but important things such as renames don't even show
         | up...
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | Systematic collection and archiving of "metadata" is not the
         | same as data being available at some point in time. (It's
         | really the same as the arguments against other automated
         | surveillance: it's "public metadata" where your car is on
         | public roads, but a country-wide database based on automated
         | scans is still different than the fact that someone can follow
         | you around manually)
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | Damn this sure is about a level of Giving A Fuck About Twitter
       | than I have never achieved in the thirteen years I've been on
       | Twitter. Like, I just looked at the data Spoonbill has on my
       | account and it's just a set of "egypturnash changed their
       | website/bio/location" entries in mid-May 2020, which is when I
       | assume this site first decided to look at my profile.
       | 
       | Also this sure is a stealth ad and a half for Spoonbill.
        
       | kyleblarson wrote:
       | Every time I learn about stuff like this I'm glad that I left the
       | toxic cesspool that is social media years ago. (Of course I don't
       | include HN in this category.)
        
         | SCUSKU wrote:
         | I am with you there. Sometimes though I wish HN'ers were a
         | little more compassionate to their fellow hackers. I suppose
         | everything can't be perfect though.
        
           | kreeben wrote:
           | >> though I wish HN'ers were a little more compassionate to
           | their fellow hackers
           | 
           | The reason why HN'ers are not always kind to other HN'ers is,
           | because HN is nothing more and nothing less than social
           | media, albeit at its finest.
        
       | rl3 wrote:
       | In the past I've theorized people do this for HN comments to
       | track edits.
       | 
       | As a serial _edit-until-finally-satisfied_ poster, I suppose it
       | 's nice to know that those edits are taking up terabytes of data
       | in such systems. :)
        
       | bartread wrote:
       | Back in 2013, at the intersection of peak .ly domain usage, crazy
       | amounts of information available through Facebook's graph APIs
       | (as well as other social networks), widespread GPS-equipped
       | smartphone usage, and free and open APIs literally everywhere
       | (including Google maps), along with my own re-education as a
       | then-modern web developer after years of mostly desktop app
       | development, I realised it would be possible to plot the
       | movements of anyone you "knew" online within a pretty good margin
       | of error in most cases using their social media updates.
       | 
       |  _As a joke_ - let me emphasise: _AS A JOKE_ (we 'll get to this
       | in a minute) - I seriously considered (aware of the irony)
       | registering stalk.ly as a domain name with Libyan Spider and
       | using it to host a site that billed itself as an online private
       | investigation agency with the tagline, "We'll find out what you
       | need to know... for a price." The whole thing was overall going
       | to look as shady as reasonably possible.
       | 
       | You'd be able to find out exactly what you'd been up to and where
       | you'd been based on your social media posts, with a timeline, map
       | view, etc. There'd be a sign-up option that would offer you the
       | ability to do the same for your "friends".
       | 
       | Worried your partner has been having an affair? No problem: slap
       | their profile URL in here and we'll tell you exactly what they've
       | been up to and where they've been up to it, etc. Want to know
       | what your kids or employees have been up to? We've got that
       | covered too. Oh yeah.
       | 
       | The point was to highlight how much oversharing most of us do
       | online, and how unaware we all often are of how much information
       | about our lives we're really giving away. Also I was more than a
       | bit curious about how many people would actually try to sign up,
       | and I thought it might be funny.
       | 
       | Fortunately (I think, although I still wonder sometimes) my
       | tendency to laziness kicked in and I never actually implemented
       | it. I was also a bit concerned about the possibility of
       | unintended consequences that could be personally detrimental. I
       | have no doubt Facebook et all would have gone ber-effin-zerk once
       | they'd spotted the app, but that wasn't my major concern - I was
       | more worried about the reaction of friends, and my employer, if
       | by some chance it had gained some traction.
       | 
       | The ideal outcome would have been for it to provide a certain
       | amount of entertainment for a while, and possibly drawn some
       | small attention to issues of privacy that - prior to that point -
       | had very much been minority concerns. Still, I was quite worried
       | about it backfiring.
        
         | muttled wrote:
         | The real plot twist would be if you send a message to the user
         | they were stalking letting them know who made the attempt.
        
           | bartread wrote:
           | Absolute genius. That would have been incredible. It would
           | also have caused the most incredible shitstorm.
           | 
           | Maybe let them check, offer a redacted or
           | scrambled/fictionalised history, and then let their target
           | know a week or two later.
           | 
           | Otherwise I think it would have been shut down really
           | quickly. You really want the thing to build up a head of
           | steam before the sky falls if at all possible.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | joncp wrote:
       | Information wants to be free. If you post information in a public
       | forum then that information can take on a life of its own. I'm
       | just surprised that people are surprised by that.
        
       | balls187 wrote:
       | Not really related, but Budgie Smuggler is the Australian common
       | name for men's speedo like swimwear. The name is derived from the
       | fact that the look of a man's privates while wearing the swim
       | wear appears as if the man is hiding (smuggling) a small bird (a
       | budgie) down his pants.
       | 
       | Hence, Budgie Smuggler.
        
       | tobias2014 wrote:
       | Is archive.org then also creeping as a service?
        
       | tppiotrowski wrote:
       | > Social apps have made creepers out of all of us.
       | 
       | Back in the AOL Instant Messenger days of the early 2000's there
       | was a service like this that tracked users' "Away Messages".
       | People definitely tweaked those repeatedly as well :)
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Who cares? I don't mean "who cares about this article"; I found
       | it worth the read. What I really mean is: is there really that
       | much interest, or even that much _of_ interest, in the edits of
       | peoples ' autobiographical sound bites?
       | 
       | We "learn" that Elon Musk is indeed self-centered and image-
       | obsessed. Big deal, I'm sure he hopes that you think so, and you
       | already knew so before reading this. Anyone whose net worth is
       | tied to their public image and fandom is almost certainly the
       | same. It's also not clear how much of those changes are actually
       | his personality and how much are simply consistent with his
       | public persona. A delta between the two would be interesting but
       | almost by definition impossible to determine from this info.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong: I'm sure there is a fascinating PhD or two to
       | be found in this info. But for any ordinary person (including
       | journalists or TMZ employee) are there any real, insightful
       | nuggets in what is explicitly the process of curation?
        
         | detaro wrote:
         | It's "awesome" to make sure that if someone ever had something
         | in there that's now embarrassing or wrong you can taunt them
         | with it without having to have stalked them yourself. Stalker
         | paradise.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Sigh. This is indeed an example of someone who would care.
        
         | Judgmentality wrote:
         | > We "learn" that Elon Musk is indeed self-centered and image-
         | obsessed.
         | 
         | It's an untestable hypothesis, but I've always wondered if
         | anyone would care about Elon Musk if he never got hairplugs.
         | 
         | https://pagesix.com/2018/07/25/its-highly-likely-elon-musk-s...
         | 
         | I just can't imagine him developing a cult personality without
         | it. I think people would think of him more like Ballmer - just
         | kinda crazy.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Yeah, cuz nobody cares about Bezos
        
         | SkyBelow wrote:
         | HR seems to, and that alone is enough to cause massive
         | disruption for most people, even the 'relatively well off'. If
         | you aren't rich enough to never need to work again to survive,
         | then your livelihood is one Twitter mob away from being
         | destroyed.
        
         | kall wrote:
         | Spoonbill updates are neat when people use twitter bios as a
         | mini resume, like a linkedin feed of sorts. That way you can
         | see who left facebook this week.
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | People care. As evidence I present the entire yellow
         | journalism, reality show, and influencer industry.
         | 
         | There's an entire meme economy built on top of things like the
         | batchelor. None of those people are even noteworthy.
         | 
         | People really really care.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | I understand that many people are interested in celebrity.
           | (That's why I included people like "TMZ employee" as
           | "ordinary people").
           | 
           | I really meant the ephemera of autographical edits. It seemed
           | as relevant as collecting used cocktail napkins of
           | celebrities.
           | 
           | A parallel comment to yours suggests its fodder for "gotcha"
           | posts. I guess that makes sense for those who like that, so
           | does answer, a little, my "who cares" question.
        
       | Debug_Overload wrote:
       | Stuff like this makes our online presence very creepy. More than
       | I personally used to think anyway. Even on platforms where people
       | usually think of their accounts as "throwaway" or "anonymous".
       | 
       | Take Reddit. Besides the well-known archive sites that keep
       | removed/deleted _content_ (removeddit, ceddit, etc), there is
       | this cool service (pushshift) that offers all that and more. One
       | interesting and relevant feature of this tool is the ability to
       | look up all content by a specific author /username. You just put
       | the name there, and lo and behold, everything this person ever
       | posted is right there; even if it's deleted, or removed.
       | 
       | If you do a quick test using this tool, you'll soon see the
       | amount of people who thought their deleted content couldn't be
       | tied back to them, continuing to use their usernames like nothing
       | happened. The deleted content can sometimes be incredibly
       | sensitive information that the person posted by mistake (or when
       | looking for advice, having a rant about something, etc). It
       | sometimes includes very specific details that may uniquely
       | identify a person. And most users aren't aware of any of this.
       | And it's available even if you delete your account. Someone just
       | has to know that you used this username once upon a time.
       | 
       | The tool eventually removed this option from the UI (but it's
       | still available through their API). The thread where this removal
       | was announced is interesting and reveals how useful this tool was
       | to some users on Reddit for combating spam/harassment (or even to
       | find their own content), but nevertheless this dark side of it is
       | there. As you might expect, someone slapped a new UI on that very
       | tool, and that feature is readily available today, few google
       | searches away.
       | 
       | When I saw this tool, it really reminded me of that. It's
       | incredible how our online activities became permanent, no matter
       | how much we try to erase the parts we don't like (or don't want
       | to be public).
        
         | beauzero wrote:
         | "Retroactive prosecution" are words that I tell my daughters
         | all the time. Do NOT put your opinions online...period. You
         | have no idea what will be illegal in 30 years and if you were
         | for or against it.
        
           | bikeshaving wrote:
           | For Americans, if it were legal for you to post something
           | today, your actions are legally protected thanks to Article
           | 1, Section 9, Clause 3 of the Constitution, which prevents
           | "ex post facto" laws, or laws which retroactively change the
           | legal consequences of past actions.
           | 
           | Most countries have some version of this protection, so your
           | legal advice to your daughters is probably incorrect.
        
             | aranelsurion wrote:
             | While this is technically correct from legal standpoint,
             | the kernel of truth is in there. (Il)legality doesn't
             | matter much compared to consequences. Consequences matter a
             | lot, and in that case his advice is perfectly sound.
             | 
             | That one "joke" you made when you were sixteen might render
             | you unemployable by 2040. People evolve, and their earlier
             | marks on earth vanish. Before social media even the worst
             | could re-make themselves into something better, now even
             | the best have their worst moments permanently recorded.
        
             | interviewer0000 wrote:
             | Not if your families beliefs are outdated or otherwise
             | bigoted. My older family members are racist. I harbored
             | racist beliefs, and told plenty of racist jokes as a boy.
             | My "opinions", I posted on twitter, as a teenager, would be
             | more than enough to get me expelled from society today. Be
             | it culturally cancelled in the US, or imprisoned in the UK.
             | 
             | Not everyone is raised by good people. Thankfully I had a
             | seismic event (Perma banned from a favorite game after
             | sinking 1000s of hours for being offensive) correct my
             | behavior. I thank my lucky stars it was merely me being
             | banned from a video game that caused me to reconsider how I
             | act, and not something much more serious.
        
             | beauzero wrote:
             | Different perspective. It's not legal advice. It's read
             | history advice...when governments change people generally
             | go to prison or worse for things that were legal under the
             | previous government. Since data is mobile and global there
             | is good chance that if a government goes away the data
             | won't.
        
             | torwayburger wrote:
             | I'm thinking McCarthyism as an example makes it good advice
             | either way.
        
             | ISO-morphism wrote:
             | I think gp may be going for "persecution" rather than
             | "prosecution", i.e. jury of public opinion rather than jury
             | in a courtroom.
        
         | offtop5 wrote:
         | Tools like this are why I stopped using Reddit ( aside from
         | talking about programming). And I assume anything I post here
         | may eventually be traced back to me.
         | 
         | Even if you do change your username regularly, your patterns of
         | speech may stay rather similar. And no matter what you say, the
         | context around it may change in 30 years or so.
         | 
         | This new generation loves to screenshot personal conversations
         | and then post them to Reddit for brownie points. Meaning if you
         | get involved with someone who's slightly malicious, they can
         | easily ruin your life too.
         | 
         | At this point I'm very careful to only meet folks in person.
         | It's not unheard of for people to share compromising details
         | about themselves, only to become extortion victims.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | Everything you're saying is true, and from a privacy
           | standpoint it is quite scary.
           | 
           | However, there's a really easy way to not worry about this:
           | don't be mean/rude to other people publicly, and think about
           | what you say before writing it down.
           | 
           | It's also hard to be "compromised" if you really own who you
           | are. Embarrassing things about yourself are only embarrassing
           | if you're embarrassed about them.
           | 
           | Obviously, people have interests and fetishes they'd rather
           | not be made public. Maybe they'd like to interact with those
           | communities online and remain anonymous. I don't have an easy
           | answer for that - an alt account might not be enough.
           | 
           | Still, for many social media sites it really is in some ways
           | the same standard as written letters. Don't write things that
           | you're worried about being read and attributed to you in the
           | future.
           | 
           | Security by obscurity many apply: if in 2050 everyone
           | everyone has 30-40 years of social media data under their
           | belt, it strikes my as unlikely that anybody's going to care
           | about the one thing you said 30 years ago, a needle in quite
           | an enormous haystack.
           | 
           | After all, you aren't a historical figure.
        
             | ishjoh wrote:
             | I would really caution against thinking this way. Parent
             | discusses changing contexts which is exactly right. Things
             | said in polite society 30 years ago are no longer
             | acceptable, there is no reason to think that what we say
             | today in polite society will be acceptable in 30 years
             | time. The thing is even though everyone will have skeletons
             | in their closet that doesn't act as some sort of defense,
             | it will only take the right kind of persistence by someone
             | strongly motivated to blow up your life, it doesn't matter
             | that much that they have skeletons.
             | 
             | It also seems to be very asymmetric, in that the ones most
             | likely to attack are the ones with the least history. It's
             | an asymmetric tool younger folks can use against older
             | folks, and that asymmetry will always exist.
        
             | offtop5 wrote:
             | To each their own, you can only control what you say, not
             | how it's interpreted.
             | 
             | Plus I really think people should be able to mature, just
             | because you said something really mean when you were 19,
             | doesn't mean at 39 you're a horrible person. In fact just
             | because you said something really mean at 19, doesn't mean
             | you're a horrible person at 19. But instead of it being a
             | one-off comment at a party, it's now a part of you. I
             | really think this is why so many young adults get so
             | stressed out over social media, you constantly need to
             | create this artificial image of some superhuman who's
             | living a fantastic amazing life. Any misstep you'll lose
             | fans,followers, etc. This makes so many people so
             | miserable.
             | 
             | I know I became much happier after I got rid of my social
             | media, but again to each their own.
        
             | Clewza313 wrote:
             | "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most
             | honest of men, I will find something in them which will
             | hang him." -Cardinal Richelieu (supposedly)
             | 
             | Your view seems quite naive to me. Not only do times
             | change, with previously acceptable things becoming
             | unspeakable (eg. "retarded", "transsexual",
             | "transvestite"), but with taking out of context and
             | selective quoting you can distort the meaning of almost
             | anything.
        
         | simplestman wrote:
         | This is one reason that I create new account on each service
         | every few months or until my cookies expire. I never remember
         | or save passwords.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | jcun4128 wrote:
       | man... stuff like this makes me glad I'm more socially/internet
       | aware than I was before
       | 
       | breadcrumbs
        
       | baxtr wrote:
       | Seems like they don't have any European accounts? Probably
       | because they don't want to deal with the GDPR issues?
       | 
       | PS: I only checked a couple or so.
        
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       (page generated 2021-02-09 23:00 UTC)