[HN Gopher] Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan... ___________________________________________________________________ Dyson air purifier outperformed by cheap DIY box fan filter in Marketplace test Author : walterbell Score : 488 points Date : 2021-02-11 13:19 UTC (9 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.cbc.ca) (TXT) w3m dump (www.cbc.ca) | zeroimpl wrote: | If the only metrics you are comparing is price and purification | level, then of course you won't want a Dyson. But there are other | important _objective_ metrics such as size and loudness which | deserve to be a part of any scientific comparison. | | But if the box fan is bigger and 4x as noisy, it's not a valid | comparison for many situations. Instead should compare fans which | are similar sizes and operating at similar noise levels. | | I have a Dyson fan and a box fan (not air purifies), and the | Dyson fan is significantly quieter, smaller (same height but | about half as wide), while having a similar power (not exactly | sure which one is stronger). | snickms wrote: | My neighbour used to have a Dyson leaf blower. | | I would wake up thinking I was in the men's room. | sdfhbdf wrote: | I thought the Xiaomi Air Purifier line [1] was at least popular | enough to be considered in such comparisons. Maybe it's my skewed | European perspective where the Xiaomi phones and home products | seem to really popular among people. | | [1]: https://www.mi.com/global/mi-air-purifier-3H/ | RL_Quine wrote: | They're nice and hackable too. | nvarsj wrote: | Is there any point to air purifiers at all? I remember | researching them a while ago as a way to alleviate my allergy | symptoms without medicine. But the overall scientific consensus | seems very dubious. To be frank, it seems like yet another one of | those very expensive placebo products that rich people like to | buy because of media scare mongering. | | I can see the obvious exception being a heavily polluted eastern | city - but don't you need some heavy duty medical grade HEPA | filters and fans to really make a large impact? | akeck wrote: | It's been easier for me to focus during WFH when my HEPA filter | is running, so I think it depends on the person and the | location. | pchristensen wrote: | If you're in the Western US/Canada, they're very helpful during | the (more frequent and increasingly severe) fire and smoke | seasons. See this pic of a filter after 6 days: | https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/9xroh4/air_filter_aft... | | They're also good if you cook with oil indoors. | gbourne wrote: | I've been using BlueAir (have the original one that looks like a | tank) for 20 year and it has been fantastic. I live in NYC, so | the air can get dirty and the BlueAir def makes a difference. | | And I've never even had to change the filter in 20 years! It is | that good! Kidding - change it about every 6 months. | syntaxing wrote: | I always treated my Dyson purifier as a fan that happens to clean | the air a little. I leave the real heavy lifting to my Blueair | purifiers which my taped up box fan purifiers cannot beat (I | measured the 2.5um output during the wildfires). | dylan604 wrote: | To be fair, the wildfire situations are pretty much the extreme | edege of "acceptable" living conditions.However, these consumer | products aren't meant for those extreme conditions. The fact | that any filter can handle that is a good testament. | vanadium wrote: | I've got two Blueair 121s (the larger sibling to the 211+) that | were recently on sale at Costco.com for the price of the 211+. | My family could sense the difference in air quality within a | couple hours. | | I can't say that about any of the prior purifiers we've tried. | clairity wrote: | to add on, it helps in some cases to have another fan or two to | move air (and dust) to your air purifier. i have 2 blueairs | (211+ & 411 auto) and they do a decent job cleaning by | themselves, but the fans aren't powerful enough even on high to | draw all the crap being constantly kicked up farther than a few | feet away without extra help. | the-pigeon wrote: | This headline is intentionally misleading. | | They put a Merc 11 filter on a box fan. The Merc 11 filter | outperformed Dyson. Not some homemade filter. | | And duh? Any air purifier where the air actually goes through a | filter is going to perform better. Worth testing but not | interesting. | osrec wrote: | Back in the day, Dyson vacuums were supposed to be the best of | the best. I think they lived up to that reputation to some | extent. | | But now, everything they produce is a nice looking pile of barely | functional junk, with a ridiculous price tag. | [deleted] | snickms wrote: | To be fair, the Dyson model claims to heat and cool the air as | well as filter it - unlike the DIY purifier. | bluGill wrote: | But those are not functions that should be combined with an air | filter. | crististm wrote: | Yeah... No! I don't have an axe to grind here but indeed there | are more than one way to compare a product. | | Air debit is only one dimension. You can pick arbitrary | dimensions to compare products depending on which one you want to | (if you would) show preference to. | | Did they check also the noise level? The dimensions? How long you | can run the thing before changing the filters? Do they have some | form of regulator or are they always on? Do they fall apart when | you bump on them? | | It's like comparing processors by their clock speed. Which one | 'is outperformed' by the other? | lxe wrote: | Attaching an air filter to a box fan doesn't look great and | sounds loud. There's no remote and no pivot or heating functions. | bluGill wrote: | Why would you want a remote on an air filter? You want it on | 24x7 because you never know when something will happen that | means the air needs cleaning. If you need a heater, buy a | heater, don't try to mix the heater with the air purifier as | they have different needs. Pivot might be useful, but only for | mixing the air - if you want to feel the air, then you want a | fan not an air filter. | Bakary wrote: | I've spent many hours navigating the air purifier market and it | is one of the most opaque and customer-unfriendly ones I have | ever seen. Beyond the advice given in the article, it's also | important to check what the filter exactly is. Some filters are | washable, but it often means that they are not as thorough as | HEPA filters, which is a big deal if your goal is to avoid the | dreaded PM2.5 that are as far as I can tell the main threat to | health and the pursuit of happiness. | | A more general problem is that there is a conceptual | contradiction between low noise and high filtering. It will be | difficult for a silent filter to be quick at filtering your room. | | The good news is that even a relatively crappy, low CADR setup | can still filter a bedroom over time so long as it remains | closed. You will however be paying for replacements more often | and it might not be worth it if you have to ventilate daily and | the filter takes many hours to give you a clean environment. | | I like the work that Smart Air China is doing. I am not | affiliated with them, but they have essentially done and made | available the same sort of research as the one highlighted in the | article and have long promoted the no bullshit use of a simple | box fan with filter combo for lower income and highly polluted | regions. | ahaucnx wrote: | Yes I agree. There are a lot of non or low performing units out | there that are hyped up by marketing and dubious claims. My | startup [1] does air quality measurements primarily for schools | and we very often come across schools that wasted a lot of | money purchasing non performing units. The best is really to | get a PM2.5 meter and compare the performance of different | units. | | [1] https://www.airgradient.com/schools/ | technics256 wrote: | What about something like VOCs? Important also or? | float4 wrote: | Between a lot of nonsense I've read today, I suddenly read a | comment from someone who devotes energy to making air in | schools cleaner. | | Very refreshing. Good luck with your startup. | turtlebits wrote: | I'm not a fan of Dyson products, but i really like their air | purifier (with heat). I'm not that concerned with performance as | I'm just trying to maintain clean air, not actively clean it. | | It's quiet, has an actual thermostat (instead of the 0-10 knob). | No burning smell and hot air temperature isn't a fire hazard | (great for clumsy kids). | | Best of all, it looks nice. | | That said, I don't think I'd be willing to pay upwards of $600 | for one. (I got a refurb HP02 for <$200, and would buy another | one at that price in an instant.) | KingOfCoders wrote: | "Best of all, it looks nice." The Dyson USP. | turtlebits wrote: | :). This is why we have terms like "Wife Acceptance Factor" | and "Happy wife, happy life" | inssein wrote: | Not really defending Dyson, but they have a public statement on | CADR, and also just a note that CBC reviewed the older model. | | https://www.dyson.co.uk/air-treatment/purifiers/CADR | dyno-might wrote: | I did a bunch of tests with a similar filter (albeit comparing to | a cheaper commercial purifier) | | https://dynomight.net/2020/12/15/some-real-data-on-a-DIY-box... | | It's crazy that commercial manufacturers usually don't even | attempt to provide data like this to show that their products | actually, you know, work. | laurent92 wrote: | This. Instead, they'll come up with whatever irrelevant metric | like measuring purification power in Watts. | | All we want to know is asthma per hour in the room, and cancers | per years in that city ;) | DoingIsLearning wrote: | This could be a HN submission in it's own right. Really | interesting 'home' science. | danans wrote: | Some of the best air filtering systems (and also among the most | expensive) are systems like the IQAir [1], which are essentially | boxes with a fan at one end and a series of filters arranged in | an alternating diagonal pattern: Note: / and \ | are each separate filters Filter | box ___ | \ | Inflow | --> / --> Outflow | \ | | / | | --- | | This maximizes the filtration while reducing the static pressure, | since the filtration is distributed over a large surface area. | | Of course a lot of the high cost of installing such a system is | the whole-house ducting. They also make single room purifiers, | but there are also not cheap [2]. | | 1. https://www.iqair.com/us/whole-house-air-purifiers/perfect16 | | 2. https://www.iqair.com/us/room-air-purifiers/healthpro-series | | EDIT: Corrected orientation of diagram | ahaucnx wrote: | Be aware that some of the whole house systems might not have a | fresh air intake. This can lead to relatively high CO2 levels | inside the building and affect wellbeing and cognitive | performance. | danans wrote: | Ideally yes, they should have a fresh air intake connected to | something like an HRV, but there is still value in | dust/smoke/pathogen filtration even if the fresh air source | for removing CO2 is a different one (i.e an open window). | | They are definitely better than no air filtration at all. | Dylan16807 wrote: | I think the filter is rotated the wrong way in your diagram? It | looks like they use a normal pleated filter. | ohyeshedid wrote: | I believe that's 6 filters in a chamber, not a zoomed in view | of a single filter. | danans wrote: | You're right about the orientation. I've fixed the diagram. | But they don't just use 1 filter, they use a series of them, | like you can see at this timestamp of this video: | | https://youtu.be/8f6Ih09uaDw?t=401 | Dylan16807 wrote: | Oh, I see. That's a weird hack to get more surface areas | instead of just using a deeper filter. All the pictures I | could find were systems like this that do just use deeper | pleats: https://images.allergybuyersclub.com/img/IQ-AP-HP- | airflow.jp... | danans wrote: | I could be wrong, but I think using separate filters | distributes the air streams across independent filtration | channels, reducing the static pressure of the system. | Similar to a pleated filter, the angular orientation is | probably about packing more surface area into a smaller | space vs. parallel filter channels oriented linearly. | nostrademons wrote: | My wife rigged up a similar box fan + HEPA filter + duct tape | solution during last summer's CA wildfires. They are remarkably | effective. We also have the BlueAir purifier that was top-rated | in this report, and arguably the box fan did better. (The BlueAir | is better for kitchen smells, the box fan is better for | particulates like wildfire smoke.) I think the filters are like | $40 each from Costco and the box fan was $30-40, so it totaled | about $70-80, about the same as the jury-rigged solution in the | article. | | Highly recommend this solution if coolness is not a factor. | sdljfjafsd wrote: | Why did you believe the box fan did better? Did you do any kind | of testing to verify that? The Blue Air's CADR is 2.7x that of | a box fan. | | I do agree that the box fan solution is a great low cost option | for small to medium rooms, but if you need 1 device to purify a | large area, it's not gonna cut it. | nostrademons wrote: | No objective data, because what I care about is usually "Am I | choking on smoke? Will I stop choking if I run the air | filter?" Subjectively we were still having problems with just | the BlueAir (~1000 sq ft apartment), add the box fan and | things got better, take away the BlueAir and things are still | better. | | The filter on the box fan also got black faster, which is our | indication that it pulled more particles out of the air. | Makes a lot of sense, because the actual filter material is | the same (they both use HEPA filters inside) but the box fan | blows a greater volume of air through a larger filter area. | averynicepen wrote: | The study doesn't mention the air flow rate of the box fan, | nor the size of the box fan. I'm not familiar with it, but on | Wikipedia it looks like CADR is calculated as (fraction of | particles) x (airflow rate). So one good explanation would be | that even though the box fan could be less efficient at | filtering particles, if it's moving 2 or 3 times the air over | the BlueAir, it will clean a room faster. | | I think it's a feasible estimate of CFM, as the diameter of | the box fan's impeller would be larger than the one used in | the BlueAir box. | danShumway wrote: | > but if you need 1 device to purify a large area | | I realize there are other concerns here (noise, power usage, | aesthetics), but at the price points this article is talking | about, you can buy 3 box filters for the price of one BlueAir | device. Or spend a bit of extra money (but still | comparatively less than $400) on a more powerful box fan. | | I am doubtful that a BlueAir would outperform a setup with | multiple independent fans. | hinkley wrote: | There's a box fan design with a slot for a 20x20 air filter on | the back. | | There's an issue of whether the fan motor is designed for that | sort of pressure, though. Not sure how durable that motor is | going to be. | AlexandrB wrote: | Dyson : Air Products :: Beats : Audio Products | | Pretty much every Dyson product I've used, from the public | bathroom air "blades" to the vacuums, seem like a gimmicky, | inferior products with a premium price tag. None of them do their | intended job better than older, cheaper products in their | category. I know James Dyson is regarded as a genius engineer, | but the consumer product company bearing his name seems to be 99% | marketing. | turtlebits wrote: | A huge part of their price/product is marketing, but their air | purifiers are excellent as a whole package (I have the one | including heat). | | Their stick vacuums and they are excellent as well. | | That said, you should not judge their performance based on | their cost, as there are other factors, such as ergonomics, | WAF, etc. | ksec wrote: | You are giving too much Credit to Beats. They are simply Crap. | | Dyson on the other hand ranges from poor like the Air Purifier | to Decent with their Vacuum and Hair Dryer. | colechristensen wrote: | Dyson focuses on over-engineering and clever-engineering. | Sometimes those things get in the way of what is _practical_ , | _best_ , or even _useful_. | | But I am quite fond of my dyson upright and handheld vacuums. | Their fans and other things seem more like novelties to me, but | that doesn't make them bad, they just are what they are. | Expensive and _neat_ , but not optimal if you want to chase a | metric or price optimum. | [deleted] | gambiting wrote: | He's an avid brexiteer as well, which is enough for me to never | ever touch any of his products again and put maximum effort | into discouraging people from buying anything from the company. | raiyu wrote: | The public bathroom air blades drive me crazy. It keeps | splashing the water back and forth, the air speed is too high | and my hands inadvertently touch the sides and probably there | are a bunch of germs circulating inside, as not everyone washes | their hands thoroughly. | | The old school super blowers that just do hot air down, or | whichever direction you turn, probably consume more power, but | certainly dry my hands faster and I don't have to worry about | touching anything that isn't clean in the process. | [deleted] | LegitShady wrote: | I prefer the Excel XLERATOR hand dryers, and usually spec | them over most other models. Hands dry in ~10 seconds, not | spashing onto a lower surface, etc. | adamscybot wrote: | Yeh, those are good. Though they seem to have appeared | shortly after the Dyson blade dryers. Dyson seem to have | shaken the market a bit into realising you actually need | power in these things for them to be useful. | LegitShady wrote: | No, the XLERATORS predate the dyson airblade by ~4-5 | years. The dyson just made people realize that they were | more expensive than the garbage units people used before, | but not _that_ expensive. | LegitShady wrote: | I checked and I spec'd an XLERATOR in 2004, and I think | they became available the year before. The dyson took | another 2-3 years to reach market, so 4-5 years is | probably overstating it. | | Either way Excel were the innovators. Dyson just made it | look cool. The apple-style marketers who charged 2x as | much so could afford some stupid overengineering. | bluGill wrote: | I hate them because they are too loud. Sure they work fast, | but I need to put air plugs in before using them, and those | are never provided. | LegitShady wrote: | its 10 seconds, I prefer loud and fast to mediocre in | both respects. | unwind wrote: | *Ear plugs, hopefully. :) | SethMurphy wrote: | The noise is a feature. It is a social signal that you | are clean for everyone in the establishment, or at least | for everyone who can see the entrance to the restroom. | wu_187 wrote: | Ditto. They dry my hands much faster than the Dyson and I | don't have to touch a germ infested surface. | jandrese wrote: | I thought those were considered to be a bad idea because | they blasted all of the germs from your hands all over the | room? | | Also, my kids won't use them because they're too loud. | LegitShady wrote: | what do you think has more germs, your recently washed | hands or the bathroom around you? | | Also, the dyson's do the same thing. | jandrese wrote: | The Dyson ones were also considered bad. | reaperducer wrote: | Protip: If you're in a public rest room and there are two | hand dryers next to each other, use them both at the same | time. One for each hand. Much faster. | lurquer wrote: | Further Protip: Wipe your hands on your jeans. | reaperducer wrote: | Unless I'm at the library or a Starbucks, I generally | don't wear the kind of clothes in public that one wipes | hands on. | BoorishBears wrote: | I had to read this comment like 3 times to parse it... | and I'm still not sure I get it | | Wiping your hands on your pants when there's towels or | something is kind of silly, but how on earth does the | article of clothing define if you can wipe your hands on | it? | | Are you wearing vinyl pants or something? | cat199 wrote: | think the point is here that things would stain / be too | expensive.. jeans don't really "show" if you wipe your | hands on them, and if they do, oh well, just part of that | 'worn jeans' look | lurquer wrote: | It's a very intriguing post. I, too, have been trying to | work out its logical ramifications. I feel, perhaps, that | the poster may, at any given time, be in possession of | two sets of clothing. | jshevek wrote: | I interpreted it as: Generally the clothes they wear are | either too nice or too nasty for wiping clean wet hands. | At the library and Starbucks they wear clothes | appropriate for wiping hands. Too nasty makes sense to | me, if you work landscaping, construction, maintenance, | auto repair, possibly even in food service. | | The too nice viewpoint is less relatable, but could be | from fastidiousness or OCD applied to the clothes | themselves, rather than being concerned about your hands. | reaperducer wrote: | _how on earth does the article of clothing define if you | can wipe your hands on it?_ | | If I'm wearing $50 jeans, I might wipe my hands on them. | | If I'm wearing a $2,000 suit, I won't wipe my hands on | it. | UnFleshedOne wrote: | You could permanently attach a small travel towel like | they sell in camping stores to your shirt somewhere under | arm. Beats having to use air dryers. | jnurmine wrote: | Not only are airblades gimmicky nonsense, they are very loud. | | Anything that blows air around will also blow viruses and the | like into the air. People do not wash hands in a | "standardized manner" and some people do not even use soap. | After their hands are wet, they just stick their hands to the | airblade, sometimes touching the sides and shaking the rest | of the water all over because they are in a hurry and can't | wait that 10 seconds or whatever it takes. | | I hate airblades and I don't like hot air dryers. | | Paper towels are the best. | mattgreenrocks wrote: | Reminds me of newer appliances (such as washing | machines/toilets) that brag about water efficiency yet don't | do nearly as good a job, requiring a second cycle, thus using | more water. | soylentcola wrote: | I did recently buy a HE washer to replace the junker that | came with the house. It may just be that I live a (mostly) | white collar lifestyle, but I do make a mess of clothes I | wear for renovation and yard work or for camping. | | So far, the new washer hasn't given me any issues with | getting things clean. The only adjustment I had to make was | learning to use much less detergent than I was used to. | | There are also just two people in the house and no kids, so | perhaps it's more of an issue with larger loads or more | grass stains, etc. | colejohnson66 wrote: | HE washing machines seems to be one of the few things | where less water is still ok. They make up for it by | running longer. A water efficient toilet just ends up not | working as well because it's using less water and not | reusing it (like washing machines). | rootusrootus wrote: | Washers seem to be an exception. My gut feeling is that | the real HE improvement was switching everyone from top | loaders to front loaders. Front loaders do a great job | cleaning and use a whole lot less water in the process. | mattgreenrocks wrote: | Front loaders have bad mold issues with the liner though. | We switched away from an old one. No regrets. | Symbiote wrote: | When you're not using a front loading machine, leave the | door and soap tray ajar. | ghaff wrote: | In at least some cases, the greater nominal efficiency may | be required by regulations. | [deleted] | crmd wrote: | Check out AvE's tear down of a $500 Dyson hair dryer.[1] He was | expecting to ridicule it but was instead blown away by the | engineering - tiny high torque zinc cast brushless DC motor, | CNC-milled impeller, etc. | | It's a good watch, including FLIR performance analysis, Fourier | analysis of bearing noise, and more. | | In summary it's definitely more engineering porn / extreme | overkill than marketing bs. | | [1] https://youtu.be/j-vJxez9UF8 | mminer237 wrote: | It reminds me of a less-extreme version of Juicero. They made | a $700 WiFi-connected "juicer" that squeezed bags of juice | using QR codes to scan the bags and then a custom power | supply, custom machined gears, and a custom 15A 330V DC motor | to actuate a press to squeeze the bags between two metal | plates. Of course, a roller could have done it for a fraction | of the price, or you could have just let gravity pour the | juice and not even need a $700 machine. | | https://blog.bolt.io/juicero/ | | Dyson's very into moving air in creative ways and blowing | through holes. They definitely seem to be the best at it and | are very good at it, but they're just playing with an | artificial constraint. No one says you have to be able to see | through your hair dryer or air purifier. You could make much | more effective or cheaper products without those constraints. | Just people think they look cool, so they're willing to pay a | premium for the weird, "futuristic" Dyson product over the | boring normal product. That does make it seem like largely | marketing though. | [deleted] | edumucelli wrote: | Talking about Juicero I remember its pressing strength was | "enough to lift two Teslas" as per its founder. Really | difficult to find something as over engineered as this now- | defunct product. | Twirrim wrote: | > Of course, a roller could have done it for a fraction of | the price, or you could have just let gravity pour the | juice and not even need a $700 machine. | | Or, as some journalists found, just squeeze the bag in your | hands and get more juice out of it than the Juicero did. | You know you've over-engineered your product when it's that | hard to get something that simple right. | cortesoft wrote: | Sure, but a fan is going to be visible in the room that it | is in... caring about the aesthetics of it doesn't seem | necessarily foolish. | | People spend way more money for decorative things that have | no functional purpose at all. | xyzzy_plugh wrote: | In the case of the hair dryer, it really is much more | efficient than any competitor. My wife saves 5+ minutes a | day over other hair dryers. | evancordell wrote: | AvE has a good teardown of juicero[0] as well, of course. | | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ | kixiQu wrote: | Yeah, I'm pretty sure the people saying "they have no good | products" or "their only good product was a bagless vacuum" | do not have adequate hair dryer experience to be making that | judgment. It's interesting how quickly commenters are | assuming that the target audience is incapable of evaluating | performance when it doesn't take an air particulate sensor to | do so. | postalrat wrote: | It seems like dyson focuses on over optimizing for problems | that they themselves create. | jandrese wrote: | I think they see themselves as reinventing solutions to | problems that had solutions created 50-100 years ago but | that the manufacturers are still using basically the same | 100 year old solution today. | | So you have products that are marginally better (because | those people 100 years ago were smart too and they have not | been completely sitting on their laurels) because it uses | modern technology and design informed by modern | aerodynamics and the like, but is expensive because it | doesn't have 100 years of cost optimization behind it. | | Worse, you have products that have 6 months of heavy cost | optimization resulting in high precision high power motors | mounted in flimsy plastic cases that break the first time | you drop them. | mywittyname wrote: | Dyson products are like the Juiceros. They are masturbatory | exercises for engineers. They get to design a product with an | almost limitless budget, functionality be damned. | | We're all guilty of that too. I bet most of us would love a | job where you get to play with cool tech all day and not | really worry about how efficient the program is. | sjwalter wrote: | That video you linked is absolutely solid. Learned a tonne | watching it. Never woulda thought 45 minutes about hair | dryers would be so great. That dude is awesome. | crmd wrote: | I'm glad you enjoyed it! When you have time, check out one | of his BOLTR (bored of lame tool reviews) videos for more | of the same. He's a piece of work. | roelschroeven wrote: | And in case there's something you don't understand, refer | to https://avedictionary.com/browse/ for enlightenment. | mattlondon wrote: | I was of a similar attitude to you until I tried and failed to | get a decent cordless vacuum cleaner that has a proper wall | holster (i.e. putting it in/out of the holster also | plugs/unplugs the charger) | | I went through several other brands (both well known and no- | name things from china) and then returning them to amazon | because they were either just crap at cleaning, and/or the wall | holster was a glorified hook that required you to put it in the | holster _and_ then still plug it in too as a separate step. | | I finally gave in and paid a little bit more for a dyson | cordless stick vacuum and it has been really quite excellent | and I cannot fault it. It always gets a lot more "out" of the | carpets than our previous vacuum, and the usability of the wall | holster means it is super-fast and easy to just grab and go | without faffing with cables (vital for me with a small kid - | we're vacuuming multiple times a day) | reaperducer wrote: | _Pretty much every Dyson product I 've used, from the public | bathroom air "blades" to the vacuums, seem like a gimmicky, | inferior products with a premium price tag_ | | That's interesting to me because I've had the opposite | experience. | | I move a lot. For almost decade I moved twice a year. I don't | like taking the dirt from one place to the next, so I buy a new | vacuum cleaner every time. So I've been though a lot of vacuum | cleaners. | | I've tried every brand and almost every level of vacuum cleaner | on the market, because sometimes I have more money to spend on | a vacuum cleaner, and sometimes things are a little tight, and | I have to get a cheaper one. The two Dysons have been the best | of them all. My only complaint is that with the wireless | models, the battery doesn't last as long as I'd like, but if I | stick it back on the charger while I'm moving furniture out of | the way in the next room, it keeps up well enough. | sorenjan wrote: | > I don't like taking the dirt from one place to the next, so | I buy a new vacuum cleaner every time. | | That seems extremely wasteful. Why not just emptying the | vacuum cleaner before bringing it to the new place? One | person buying 20 new vacuum cleaners in a decade is just one | of the reasons this planet is running out of resources. | UnFleshedOne wrote: | Especially considering that 80% of the dirt the vacuums | collect are his own skin flakes and hair anyway... | folkrav wrote: | Actually, that's supposedly a common misconception[1]. | | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn5M48MVWyg | reaperducer wrote: | _That seems extremely wasteful_ | | It is. I'm not afraid to admit that. Old vacuum cleaners | give me the heebie jeebies. We all have our quirks. | Brakenshire wrote: | Do you sell them or give them away? Tell me how you | haven't thrown away a whole series of functional vacuum | cleaners. | patrickk wrote: | AMA from a vacuum technician: https://old.reddit.com/r/IAmA/c | omments/7gmsoe/iama_reddits_o... | | IIRC he recommends Miele vacuums. | TorKlingberg wrote: | I am sort of worried that a lot of internet sentiments go | back to just one person. I also have a vaguely negative | impression of Dyson, and realized it came from that same | Reddit thread. It feels like every internet community just | recycles information from previous threads and only rarely | gets input from reality. | | FWIW, I have a Dyson wireless handheld vacuum. It's pretty | good, but I can't way if it's worth the price. | patrickk wrote: | It's not only that thread that is giving Dyson a bad | name. They've been selling overhyped, over-marketed | products for years. I've heard the same from multiple | sources. As multiple commenters have said here, they're | like Bose in that aspect. They're not bad as such, but | there are much better products out there that are not | heavily marketed. | Guest19023892 wrote: | I was in the market for a vacuum last year and followed the | advice in that topic. I bought a used Miele C1 Compact for | $80. Great vacuum for my small apartment and I've been very | happy with the purchase. | | I remember seeing the Dyson Ball vacuum the first time in | the store and being incredibly underwhelmed after all the | marketing on TV. It was heavy, and felt like a bunch of | cheap plastic that was going to break apart. Then I tried a | few of those handheld Dyson vacuums in different Airbnbs I | lived for a while. They were a pain to clean, hair would | get caught in the spinning brushes, and the battery life on | all of them was terrible (one would only last about 2 | minutes, likely because the battery was aging). It always | feels like marketing and "cool" gimmicks come first with | Dyson products and the actual quality is second. | antoniuschan99 wrote: | I like Vacuum Wars as he provide fun reviews | | https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCvavJlMjlTd4wLwi9yKCtew | asdff wrote: | I thought that until I came to own a dyson ball vacuum for | free. My lord. If a hoover/shark/whatever is a 25 year old | toyota corolla, this is a brand new rolls royce and feels like | it. It's extremely powerful despite being used, and collects a | frankly disturbing amount of dust and hair every time I use it | (picking up about a full chamber of hair from my longhair cat | some times, hair that was invisible to the eye on the rugs | before vacuuming). Pretty much every other vaccume I've had | turns to hell in a few years with the poor build quality and | dealing with my cats hair, but this is a tank in comparison and | has tumbled down stairs. The ball system is actually pretty | nice and easy to push around, and the low center of gravity | helps with balance as well. It's loud, but not nearly as loud | as my old vaccuum (my cat doesn't run away). Maintenance is | extremely user friendly and easy; I had the whole thing apart | to clean the filters without looking at a manual, just moving | bits of plastic conveniently colored red so you know they are | there for you to move or remove. | | But none of this is something you would notice from a sexy | ipod-esque ad. All of this you pick up on after you start using | the tool. Then it makes perfect sense why this is such a good | vacuum and well worth the premium relative to other offerings | on the market. | [deleted] | falcolas wrote: | One thing I particularly appreciate about our Dyson corded | vacuum is that I can take the whole damned air path apart if | needed, without tools. It's quite useful when something gets | jammed up in a u-bend. | | I have no comment about the rest of it, compared to other ones, | because I haven't had to replace it since we got it a couple of | decades ago. | sigstoat wrote: | > One thing I particularly appreciate about our Dyson corded | vacuum is that I can take the whole damned air path apart if | needed, without tools. | | the first time i went to clean the filter in ours, i kept | seeing that i could easily take off/remove one more thing, so | i did. next thing i knew i had completely dismantled and | washed it. | | then it went back together just as easily. hardest part was | waiting for things to dry out. | [deleted] | vondur wrote: | I've used Dyson's hand dryers in a public restroom. They seem | to work really well compared to the standard hand dryers. | phatfish wrote: | Dyson the person had one very successful idea (the bagless | vacuum) and brought it to market himself after being ignored by | the then-incumbent manufactures of existing models. | | Dyson the company has been riding that one idea since, and I | agree the rest of their products are over-priced luxury items. | In fact their vacuums are over-priced as well now. | | Dyson rubs me the wrong way as well personally by purporting to | be a "patriotic Brit" moaning about the current state of the | country. Then upping sticks to Malaysia with the company HQ in | tow. | sjg007 wrote: | He started with the ball barrow but I have a dyson vacuum and | it's OK. The main part does have a lot of suction that I am | pretty sure is eating the carpet. The wand stick thing | attachment though is absolutely the worst designed product | ever produced. It's impossible to wield and bend into tight | spaces. The vacuum itself is just too heavy as well. I'll go | with an upright bagged version though for better Hepa | filtering or a canister in the future. | | Dyson really does have good marketing though. | dominotw wrote: | I currently use dyson v11 cordless vaccum. I am in the market | for a new one, what do you recommend instead ? Price is not too | much of concern for me ATM. | duxup wrote: | I've had a good experience with a Shark vacuum. It had high | ratings from Consumer Reports. I bought one and found it did | a great job with heavy carpet and rugs, and wood floors. It | is easy to take apart, clean, etc. | JamesSwift wrote: | Our Shark just died but it served honorably for about 10 | years if I remember correctly. It was very affordable when | we got it as well. | phatfish wrote: | I have a Shark also, sub PS200 (PS170 i think), pretty sure | a similar Dyson was easily twice the price. It is quite, | light (its one of the hand held models) and certainly | powerful enough for general use around the house. | duxup wrote: | Yeah the build quality really impressed me about the | Shark. | | It's light, but has been really powerful, durable. | EarthIsHome wrote: | It'll depend on your use case (square footage, majority | carpet vs majority hardwoods with some rugs, etc). | | But as others have said, Miele is incredible. Sebo is another | good one. They'll have specific models for your use case. | | You can browse /r/vacuumcleaners [0] for ideas. | | [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/VacuumCleaners/ | ttul wrote: | Miele makes the best vacuums IMHO. | SeanLuke wrote: | Miele. They last forever and are much cleaner, lighter, and | more powerful than equivalent Dysons. | AlexandrB wrote: | I really like my Miele canister vacuum. It's light, quiet, | and powerful. I find bagless vacuums, including Dyson's, to | be a pain in the butt to clean by comparison. However Miele | is certainly not a good value brand either. I've never used a | cordless vacuum, but I find the concept suspect for basic | physics reasons. You're either giving up weight, power, or | both compared to something you can plug into a wall. | ghaff wrote: | Even if you are giving something up for cordless--and I'm | happy to stipulate you may be to some degree, there are a | lot of situations where you want to do a quick touchup, | clean up a spill, etc. and a cordless vacuum like a Dyson | is _so_ much quicker and easier. It 's the same with a lot | of battery-powered tools. They may not be quite as powerful | as a corded or gasoline version but they're increasingly | powerful enough, especially for relatively light duty use, | and they're a lot more convenient. | Siecje wrote: | Is there a vacuum that doesn't have a battery but uses the | same form factor? I don't mind plugging it in but I don't | want to drag around another object I just want to use it | like a swiffer. | ooboe wrote: | I have used a Miele bagged cannister and a Dyson bagless | cannister, both corded, and a variety of cheaper units. Miele | all the way. | city41 wrote: | I think Dyson is the best example that shows marketing really | works. I've yet to find a single Dyson product of quality. | Their vacuums are downright terrible. | Amasuriel wrote: | I'm surprised to hear that sentiment about the vacuums in | particular! | | I found the v11 I bought to be vastly better than previous | vacuums I've owned, with excellent power despite being | cordless, really light and much much quieter. | | I haven't used any other Dyson products; I opted to buy | Rabbit air purifiers over a Dyson Air. | SeanLuke wrote: | Miele. Every Miele I've found is superior, hands down, to | its Dyson equivalent. | tomjakubowski wrote: | Maybe true for corded vacuums, but the Dyson cordless | models have superior battery life. | city41 wrote: | It's actually the cordless ones in particular that I | think are so terrible. They get jammed just about every | time you use them, the max button gets stuck, the battery | doesn't last, etc. I struggle to think of a positive for | them if I'm honest. We've owned two of them and have | vowed never again. | sremani wrote: | Dyson proves we care about beautiful things. Aesthetics | matter. | SeanLuke wrote: | The nonsensical Dyson canister vacuums are the ones that amaze | me. Dyson competes based on premium coolness, so just consider | at its primary coolness competitor: Miele. Across the board, | Miele canisters are lighter, more powerful, cleaner, and much | more effective than their Dyson cost equivalents. They have a | far lower failure rate and last much longer. Bagless canisters | have so many negatives compared to bagged vacuums, it's a | wonder they're still being promoted. | ooboe wrote: | I have to agree with this. I have a Miele bagged canister and | my partner has a Dyson bagless canister. The Miele is | superior (often significantly) in every measure, including | price. Granted I do have to buy bags but it'll take decades | of bags to negate the price difference. | kevstev wrote: | Do you have any more info to back this? I am honestly | curious- I bought a Dyson Animal about 12 years ago now, and | its still going strong, and is the best vacuum I have ever | used. Not having to keep bags around is nice too. Our usecase | is relatively light- we have area rugs mostly, but its still | head and shoulders above the previous vacuum we had, and any | of the ones my parents had growing up. | damontal wrote: | how do you dump your cannister? i empty mine after every | use and it always releases dust into the air. bagged seems | much better as it just keeps the dust inside. | kevstev wrote: | I just do it over the garbage can, the cannister is | removable and just flips open up top. I guess some dust | escapes, but its mostly contained. The cannister being | clear, its also very transparent as to when its full and | needs to be emptied. Its been awhile, but I remember this | being problematic on my previous units- the "indicator" | mechanisms didn't work very well, so you eventually | ignored them, until suction was noticeably deteriorated, | then you finally changed out the bag and it felt like you | had a new vacuum. | BHSPitMonkey wrote: | The common reason I see for vacuum enthusiasts bashing on | bagless units is air hygiene; as soon as you take out the | canister, you're releasing a bunch of the vacuumed matter | back into the air and breathing it into your lungs. This | can probably be mitigated by carefully emptying the | contents outdoors, but a lot of apartment-dwellers can't | really do that. | SeanLuke wrote: | Bagless is also an excellent way to shorten the life of | the motor and fan subsystem. | ooboe wrote: | Yes, emptying bagless units is a disgusting process. Even | outdoors, it's not pleasant. | Thaxll wrote: | I don't think there is an equivalent of the Dyson vacuum on the | market atm, it's that good, so I'm not sure what you're talking | about, you definitly never tried their product. | misiti3780 wrote: | i recently purchased a vacuums on sale and i am very happy with | it. what problems have you had with the vacuums? | | I also bought a pair of beats running earphones that work | better for me than the apple airpods because they do not fall | out, they were both about the same price. | arp242 wrote: | The air blades work quite well; you can _actually_ dry your | hands in a few seconds instead of holding it underneath some | lukewarm air for 30+ seconds. I never even use them as they 're | borderline pointless and so damn loud (I dry my hands on my | trousers if there are no towels), but airblades work well | enough for me to us them. | | I can't speak to the other products as I never used them, but | air blades really are a big improvement IMO. | dirktheman wrote: | Yes, we have the vacuum on a stick at work. It's a cheap | plastic thing that looks like a sex toy for Buck Rogers and it | doesn't perform nearly as well as the Numatic Henry we have at | home. | rblatz wrote: | We have the Dyson v10 animal vacuum stick and use it daily to | clean up after our 1 year old. It's fantastic, easy to use, | strong suction, easy to empty/clean. I'm thinking of buying a | second for our upstairs. | kelvie wrote: | We also have a Real vacuum (the numatic, we have a George but | same thing), as well as a dyson v7. | | The dyson's are bagless but they have to be emptied all the | time, and the maintenance is a lot more of a chore. | | I think the ideal mix would be to have a cordless dyson but | with sort of a base that empties into a bagged vacuum, | similar to the robot vacs nowadays that empties themselves | and have a bag that can be thrown away once a month. | | Having to empty the dyson every 3 days sort of defeats the | point of having a HEPA filter for allergy viewers. | simias wrote: | I have the same take. I had a cordless Dyson that worked | okay, but I would spend a lot of time cleaning the rotating | brush and crap getting stuck in the small inlet (which | probably had to be small in order to get good suction with | the smaller capacity of the battery-powered motor). | | And while it's bagless, with my cats I had to empty the | canister a couple of times every time I cleaned the house. | | Now the power supply to the rotating brush seems to have | died, I'll probably try to fix it eventually but I took the | opportunity to buy a good old Henry as a replacement. It's | got a huge bag, a huge filter, it's much more powerful and | does a great job. Yeah, I have to buy bags, but they're | cheap and that's basically the only maintenance I have to | worry about. | praveenperera wrote: | I think that maybe be true for some of their products, but when | it comes to cordless stick vacuums Dyson is still king. | ubermonkey wrote: | All I know is the two vacuums we have. Both have absolutely | exceeded expectations. The first was a wedding present in 2005, | and it still works GREAT -- we only bought the 2nd (a cordless | model) to avoid lugging the big one up and down stair so much. | | I absolutely would buy another Dyson if either of these failed | or broke, no question. We're super happy with them. | bhouston wrote: | Their handheld household vacuums are so nice. We have one on | each floor. So light, powerful and always ready. | lambda_obrien wrote: | The only thing they make that's good is the stick vacuum, | everything else is just trying to put their nice, fancy motors | into other products. | sdfhbdf wrote: | Interesting since the cordless vacuum (dyson v11) I use at home | seem to work really well. The previous big corded model we had | (Dyson DC33) was also built like a tank and served for almost | 10 years before being passed on and still works so maybe I | bought into marketing or maybe just different people have | different experiences with Dyson products? | tidepod12 wrote: | Yea, it's weird reading this thread to me. I have a cordless | Dyson vacuum and it is _by far_ the best home vacuum I have | ever used, both in terms of suction power (even compared to | non-cordless ones) and in terms of other usability /features. | rootusrootus wrote: | This thread is filled with anecdotes. But vacuums do get | tested periodically by objective reviewers. As I recall, | the Dyson usually does okay, but it rarely wins overall, | and never on price. | beefalo wrote: | I think Dyson benefits from the same effect as | Apple/Tesla/Beats/etc. Their products are good but their | triumph is upselling. Dyson cordless vacuums are like | $800+, was your previous one that expensive? | tenpies wrote: | Perhaps, but just like Apple they have a refurbished | category where you can get very good deals - and that's | on top of them having sales regularly. | | I should add that I called Dyson once for my 7 year old | wireless vacuum which was having battery problems. They | mailed me a replacement completely free of charge. The | upselling might be there, but the up-service also seems | to be there. | belval wrote: | My dyson cordless vaccum (v7) was 399$ (CAD) so it was | not insanely expensive and I would not go back. | | Their tech can probably be imitated at a lower cost, but | I won't take chances with the cheaper knockoffs, the | tradeoff is not worth it. | cutenewt wrote: | Is there a Dyson-equivalent cordless vacuum that goes for | less than $200? | jandrese wrote: | Their tech probably can't be imitated at the moment | because they've got it patented up the wazoo. Luckily | patents have a sane lifetime and once they expire I'd | expect many competitors to show up with similar designs | at lower price points and possibly better engineering. | ljf wrote: | We must have had a dud as we got the Dyson animal hair one | and it was terrible. Battery life was rubbish, the suction | was crappy and the pick up just wasn't that good. | | Ended up getting a gtech which was fine for 2 adults in a | small 2 bed house with wooden floors, but now we have kids | and a bigger place we got a Shark corded and it is amazing. | Literally the best vacuum we've ever owned. | dnanabkchsbxb wrote: | I had a similar experience with the Dyson and then the | battery died. After getting the battery replaced under | warranty, the machine has worked great ever since. | cgriswald wrote: | FWIW, we have six furry animals of our own (with four | different hair types) and also foster and board dogs. We | never buy the "animal" cleaning machine. I've never seen | a product that in any way shows it's somehow more capable | of dealing with hair or messes than other products in the | same line. I have had them be more expensive and flimsier | relative to that same line though. | slacktide wrote: | The "Animal" product line is identical to the regular | product but comes with a few additional attachments | (powered hand hair brush) and is a different color. We | have a Husky dog that blows her coat twice a year, 2 | longhaired cats and a shorthair. The machine is amazing. | nostrademons wrote: | We have both a Dyson cordless vac and a Shark corded one. | We use them for different things - the Dyson is for spot- | cleaning, toddler messes, cars, furniture, bedspreads | while the Shark is for our floors. Both are very good at | what they do. | ghaff wrote: | I'm not sure the cordless Dyson I have compares well to a | good corded vacuum cleaner for cleaning power. But for | me, I got one a couple of years ago (after thinking about | getting a Roomba for the umpteenth time and concluding it | wasn't for me) and it's been perfect for my use case. I | normally have a housekeeper come by once a month. But the | high traffic areas including the kitchen really need a | quick vacuum now and then in between cleanings and the | Dyson's been perfect for that. I hated having to haul my | corded vacuum out to do this. (So I mostly didn't.) Now | it's literally a couple minutes work to grab the Dyson | and give a quick cleanup. | SaintGhurka wrote: | Same experience for us. The cordless Dyson is a lesser | vacuum cleaner compared to our old corded hoover. But | it's light, it's easy to grab from the charger and you | don't have to deal with a cord, so it gets used more. It | just removes all the friction from the chore. | ljf wrote: | Yeah, the gtech was a battery vacuum too, but placed the | motor/impeller right next to the entrance of the device, | no long pole. I wanted to love the Dyson because of what | we paid for it, but I left me a bit meh. My folks have a | corded Dyson now and it is a good machine, but I really | feel the shark just wins. Man I am dull :p | mywittyname wrote: | My cordless Dyson (V10 Animal, I think) is strong enough | to get stuck to the carpet on the highest power setting. | I won't use it past medium because I'm afraid that it | will tear up the carpet. | orwin wrote: | For a "wired" vaccum, i'll go with Festool every time, but | yeah, Dyson wireless vacuum are pretty good. | Domenic_S wrote: | People are talking about the household vacuum type | (upright & cordless) not shop-vacs or dust collectors. | soylentcola wrote: | My household vacuum cleaners have almost always been | corded (with the exception of a couple battery powered | ones I had 5 or 10 years ago). Granted, I didn't shell | out several hundred dollars for the cordless ones, but | dead batteries and replacements got old after the first | round so I've stuck to corded ever since. It's just not | something I ever really had a problem with. The cords are | typically quite long and I never have to worry about | battery capacity or lifespan. | Domenic_S wrote: | I was referencing GP's Festool comment - Festool does | make great stuff, but in the vacuum space they mostly | make dust collectors for woodshops and shop-vac style | shop vacs -- not the household-style vacs we're talking | about. | soylentcola wrote: | Gotcha. Sorry I misunderstood. | bmurphy1976 wrote: | That's weird because the cordless Dyson vacuum we had was | utter garbage and my 20 year old Dirt Devil was better in | almost every single way except it didn't look as cool and | had a cord. | DanBC wrote: | > and served for almost 10 years before being passed on | | Wait what, is ten years supposed to be a good lifetime for | vacuum cleaners? | sdfhbdf wrote: | I'd say with couple of times a week usage for a thing made | out of plastic I could expect a lot more troubles than it | had. | | It did require one dyson service which they kindly provide | even for old devices and one this pipe thingy swap since it | ripped. | | But as other commenter pointed out - it still works we just | wanted to move on to something smaller and cordless and we | expect the first thing that will fail in V11 is going to be | batteries because other than that they're really sturdly | built. | jandrese wrote: | Any cordless appliance with non-replaceable batteries is | going to be designed to last only as long as the | batteries. Typically 5 years or so. | | At least cordless tools usually use replaceable (but | absurdly expensive) battery packs. Home goods however | seem far slower to adopt battery pack technology. | | One thing I hate is that every single manufacturer has | their own special battery tech that is expressly | incompatible with every other manufacturer. This is an | area that is absolutely crying out for standardization | but probably won't get it because they're making too much | money selling literally $7 of materials and labor for | $80. I meant that too. 8 18650s for $0.50 each, plus a | cheap off-the-shelf $1 charge controller and plastic | case. | hundchenkatze wrote: | > before being passed on and _still works_ | | They said it's still working, so seems like its lifetime is | greater than 10 years. | jandrese wrote: | My mom still uses her Hoover from the early 70s. It's | mostly metal and the bags for it are still readily | available at the store. | | A Dyson would probably clean better, but she's not going to | upgrade until her old one breaks, which may be never. | | That said, it hasn't been completely care free. My parents | have had to replace the belts several times, but those | parts that are easily available and very cheap. The light | bulb is more of a special order part, but you can find them | on the internet. | | In comparison I bought a Dyson vacuum back in the early | 2000s and it died due to the plastic at the joint between | the handle and the body breaking after about 15 years. | There was no repair that didn't cost more than a new vacuum | cleaner. Also, the hose that connected to the corner brush | never connected properly because of a factory error, so it | always had tape holding the hose on. | | But we replaced it with a Dyson ball vac because my wife | was convinced they did a better job getting the dirt up. | The ball vac is still going strong, although I think we may | have shortened it's life at one point. It had gotten | plugged up at one point and after my wife had tried to | vacuum two rooms it suddenly shut off. I took it apart and | removed the blockage but it still wouldn't turn on. So I | used a shop vac on the blow side to force air through the | motor to get it spinning again and discovered that it had | probably thermally shut down because the air that came out | the other side was so hot you couldn't put your hand over | it. A few seconds of that and the vacuum turned back on and | sent out a blazing hot stream of air for several minutes. | I'm pretty sure if I took it apart I'd find cooked and now | brittle plastic around the motor housing. | Sohcahtoa82 wrote: | I wonder how much that Hoover cost brand new (adjusted | for inflation, of course). | | I've always had the narrative in my head that appliances | have become flimsy and have shorter lives because people | tend to buy whatever is the lowest price. A race to the | bottom on prices means a drop in quality. | leesalminen wrote: | My wife has caused every vacuum we've ever owned to | literally catch fire. Ranging from cheap Bissell to | expensive Dyson. It's quite impressive, actually. The | cheap ones usually last <1 year while the Dysons last ~2 | years. So now we just buy the cheapest one and run it | into the ground. It probably doesn't help that we have 5 | animals + 1 husband in the house. | jandrese wrote: | Ouch. Maybe you should be more aggressive about cleaning | out the filters? Our Dyson says to clean them every 6 | months or so I think, but if your house is especially | dirty (say because the dogs track in a lot of dirt and | shed) you should do it more often. | | If you have not done it in awhile it can be surprising | just how much better at picking up dirt it will become | after a good cleaning. Because the filters are trying to | get down to 2.5ppm they clog easily. | vhost- wrote: | If Dyson had to choose one product to keep making, but | discontinue all others, it should be the V11 vacuum. Runs | forever and cleans very well. All their other shit can kick | rocks. | ghaff wrote: | I have one of their circular fans in my bedroom. It's got a | remote, it's quiet. Yes it's expensive but it's definitely | better than the cheap fan I used to have there. | mabbo wrote: | Seriously, the Dyson cordless is one of the best investments | I've made. Having the charging station hang on the wall means | it takes up no space that I was previously using. | mr_custard wrote: | I don't diagree with you on some of the Dyson products being | gimmicky with a premium price tag, and the air purifier does | look suspect to me. However, the Dyson v11 cordless vacuum I | just bought is phenomenal. | | It has far better suction and cleaning effectiveness than | anything I've ever used - which is partly why I bought the v11. | Our mains powered central vacuum just wasn't cutting it, and | was bothersome to use. | hrktb wrote: | I hated the vacuums (the one I bought was way too heavy, loud, | expensive for what it did) and air blades, but love the fanless | ventilators. It's light, cute, easy to move, with no visible | moving parts, is still surviving spotlessly. I wish there was | better competitors. | jfk13 wrote: | Perhaps you could make your own out of scrap wood: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a19OpQfwB2w | 4ggr0 wrote: | I love the public bathroom Dyson thingies. They kinda became a | standard for me now, love how quickly they dry hands. Way | better than paper, towels or weak fans. But yeah, the other | stuff is a bit gimmicky. | newsbinator wrote: | Those bathroom hand dryers do spread bacteria around at an | alarming rate: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the- | bacterial-horror-of-... | cpmsmith wrote: | > the researchers attached high-efficiency particulate air | (HEPA) filters to the dryers, which would eliminate most of | the bacteria from the air passing through the dryer. | | As I recall, one of the selling features of the Dyson | Airblade is that it has a HEPA filter built-in. | KaiserPro wrote: | they might have a hepa filter, but the output drags a | tonne of air with it. They are pretty unhygenic, but I'm | not sure how bad it is compared to having wet hands. | sudosysgen wrote: | Maybe one could make an air drier that sucks air around | the hands and into a filter instead of onto the hands? | maxerickson wrote: | On the output? | mchanson wrote: | I hate them. They blow water all over the place and I can't | help but touch them by mistake. I don't even use them and | just wipe my hands on the back of my t-shirt like an animal | after washing if there are no paper towels. | AlexandrB wrote: | The best hand dryers I've user are the really powerful | blowers that can peel paint if you need them to. They're | extremely loud though. | datameta wrote: | I wondered how powerful an Xcelerator dryer is compared to | an ion thruster a few years back. I'd looked at dryer | specfications and realized they're in the same magnitude in | terms of mN! | 4ggr0 wrote: | You just sent me into a very weird YouTube rabbit-hole. | craftinator wrote: | I've worked in a place with those. Over time they build up | mould in tiny crevices that are nearly impossible to clean | without taking the whole thing apart, which is not an easy | task. Plus, they blow water drops all over when you use them | (put down some strips of water reactive paper... It blows | them up to 10 feet away). Not a very healthy technology. | cesis wrote: | To me these seem unhygienic - hands often touch the dryer | also droplets are projected upwards(often in your face). | [deleted] | isatty wrote: | Air dryers are super unhygienic. One person who did not wash | their hands properly means droplets with germs all over the | place. Plus, in places with high humidity (or even otherwise) | it takes a long time to actually dry your hand. Recyclable | paper towels are so much better. | ska wrote: | They are basically terrible, as they spread whatever is on | your hands all over the room. | | Paper is actually really effective, but only if you use it | properly (don't crumple, always fold in 2, and wipe). 1 small | piece is actually enough for both hands unless they are still | dripping water. | greggturkington wrote: | I'm glad they changed it from "insert your hands between two | blades of air" to "put your hands under ONE blade." | | The old design would just push your hands into one side or | the other, where the bacteria-laced water from the last | person still remained. | notJim wrote: | I don't understand comments like this, I have never had a | problem not touching the sides. | greggturkington wrote: | I figured that was _why_ they changed the design? | Semaphor wrote: | > the public bathroom air "blades" | | That's interesting, I always found those vastly superior to all | other solutions. They dry my hands the quickest, only the | copycats come close. | ahaucnx wrote: | I am living in Northern Thailand that goes through the annual | smoke season with often US AQI beyond 300 and in the Hazardous | area. That experience lead to the foundation of my startup | AirGradient [1]. More and more people here are moving beyond air | purifiers and install positive pressure systems in their house, | offices or schools. Positive pressure systems take the outside | air, run it through a set of high performance filters and pushes | it inside the rooms. This has mainly two significant benefits: | | a) The positive pressure prevents dirty air from entering the | room in the first place. As a results you become totally | independent from the outside pollution and you can achieve zero | PM2.5 inside even on the worst polluted days. I made a | performance comparison between a standard air purifier and a | positive pressure system and the positive pressure system won by | a huge margin [2]. | | b) Low CO2. If you use normal air purifiers you are in a catch-22 | situation. In order to get good results you need to keep your | doors and windows closed. This leads to a very fast build up of | CO2 in a room. High CO2 levels significantly impair cognitive | performance and can lead to drowsiness and headaches. We measured | the CO2 in classrooms [3] and very quickly you will see CO2 | levels beyond 3000ppm (most Standards recommend levels below | 1200-1500ppm). | | Against Covid transmission prevention, the best setup would | probably be a combination of positive pressure system (to ensure | a constant ventilation rate) together with a recirculation unit | (standard purifier) inside the room to trap aerosols with | viruses. | | We have open-source open-hardware build instructions for a DIY | air quality sensor measuring PM2.5 and CO2 [4]. I am more than | happy to send you some free PCBs (you just paypal me the cost of | the postage) and you can build your own sensor and log the data. | Contact me if you are interested. | | [1] https://www.airgradient.com/schools/ | | [2] https://www.airgradient.com/blog/2020/03/30/air-purifier- | vs-... | | [3] https://www.airgradient.com/blog/2020/02/07/we-measured- | the-... | | [4] https://www.airgradient.com/diy/ | tw04 wrote: | If you're trying to move air, a vornado works far better than a | dyson. | | On the flip side, if you have young kids, the heaters are great | because there's no hot element to burn themselves on like a | normal space heater, and no fan to stick their fingers in. | | The built in t-stat + timer are nice as well. | ortusdux wrote: | I still cannot get over this product. They whole selling point of | a dyson fan is the 'air multiplier' tech, which creates a low | pressure zone that propels air through the ring. According to | dyson, this tech can move 15x more air than the fan in the base | of the unit. Why in the world would you build an air filter | around a system that does not directly interact with 93% of the | air it moves? | | https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/Howitworks/dysonairmu... | u678u wrote: | I think its a good quality fan and a fan heater that also | purifies. Purification isn't its only goal, so if you care only | about that just get a purifier. Presumably the cheap DIY box | did a bad job at heating the air. | ortusdux wrote: | Check out dyson's website. They don't even list fans on their | product page. It's just variations of air purifiers. They are | all advertised first and foremost as purifiers. | | https://i.imgur.com/GaYU6ZD.png | | https://www.dyson.com/air-treatment | ihuman wrote: | I don't think they sell the non-purifier ones anymore. | Google searching led me to a page with a mix of purifier | and non-purifier fans [0], but the links either bring me to | the "air-treatment" section or break completely. | | [0] https://www.dyson.com/fans-and-heaters | TheSpiceIsLife wrote: | 15 x 7% = 105% | | Obviously that's not how those numbers work, but you get the | idea: it's not necessary to filter all the air at once. | ortusdux wrote: | I rounded up to be generous. | renerthr wrote: | 1. I concluded that's what you did, but found it a bit | annoying. 100x15/16=93.75 . I find it unnecessarily | confusing (as the parent commenter probably did) to round | it to 93, when the correct rounding is 94. | | 2. The article says "15x more", so the right math would be | 100x16/17=94.12 . | ortusdux wrote: | This is exactly the kind of pedantry I was trying to | avoid by rounding. | | Fan X moves "15x more" air than fan Y. For every 1 unit | of air fan X moves, Y will move 1x15 = 15 units. In the | time it takes fan Y to move 100 units of air, fan X will | move 100*(1/15) units, or 6 2/3rds units. 6.666... rounds | to 7. | cjohansson wrote: | Don't underestimate the placebo-effect of having a Dyson, | regardless of it's physical effects. This is what you can do | with a premium brand.. only a Dyson is like a Dyson | Aunche wrote: | > Why in the world would you build an air filter around a | system that does not directly interact with 93% of the air it | moves? | | Dyson fans produce a continuous stream of air. Regular fans | produce choppy air. I don't think anyone actually notices this | effect until you point it out though. | odux wrote: | And, in my experience, a lot of noise. Way more than a | regular fan for the same perceived amount of air flow. | xyzzy_plugh wrote: | What? My Dyson fan is incredibly quiet compared to any | other fan I've used. | souprock wrote: | This dispute could be a matter of frequency range. Older | ears can't hear high pitch. If the Dyson noise is mostly | high pitch, older ears will perceive it as quieter. | IndySun wrote: | I agree on the noise of the Dyson. The quietest Dyson | fans are not that quiet. I work in studios that require | quiet fans. A Dyson fan that rotates is especially noisy | due to the squeaking motor. If you need a quiet portable | fan/filter find one that is static and has more than 7-8 | speeds, preferably in double figures - and put it close | to where you want the air, on low. | xattt wrote: | The "choppy" air is the effect that you get when you are | close to a fan and you talk into it. This diminishes | significantly at very short distances. | | If you're at a distance where you can talk into the airflow | and sound normal, you're probably not experiencing "choppy" | air. | fossuser wrote: | The fan also sucks compared to something like a Vornado. | | "Buffeting" of air is not a practical issue when using a fan - | you want a fan that can create a lot of air flow. | | The Dyson fan comes across form first then making up reasons to | explain the form retroactively. It feels like an interesting | look is the goal rather than something that's actually better. | | Am I wrong about this? Do people that have the fan like it? Is | it better? I've only played with one in a store, but haven't | owned one myself. I have owned Vornado fans which I liked. | | Another one that comes to mind is the Molekule air filter which | is basically fraud. | | Large HEPA filters work, people should use them. | | My favorite: https://medifyair.com/ | yreg wrote: | Why is Molekule a fraud? | fossuser wrote: | See: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air- | purifier... | | They make nonsense claims about their technology - none of | which empirically hold up. They lie about it and are just | generally full of shit, quoted below: | | "In the summer of 2019, we purchased a Molekule Air (the | flagship model) and tested it. We bought an Air Mini that | fall and tested it in February 2020. At the time we tested | the Molekule Air, the company claimed that its | "scientifically-proven nanotechnology outperforms HEPA | filters in every category of pollutant." | | Our tests proved otherwise. And by mid-2020, that language | had been withdrawn, after many of the company's claims were | ruled against in a case before the National Advertising | Division and upheld in a later appeal before the National | Advertising Review Board. The Molekule Air turned in the | worst performance on particulates of any purifier, of any | size, of any price, that we have tested in the seven years | that we have been producing this guide. The Air Mini | outperformed it, but that's not saying much: It still gave | the second-worst performance we've ever seen. | | Guide author Tim Heffernan asked Molekule CEO Dilip Goswami | why the language was removed. He answered, "The point about | 'in all categories' is that we see a device that | outperforms across all of the categories. Right? So we're | not trying to say that individually, on any particular | metric, we would be number one. Right? What we're saying | is, when you look across all the categories, we outperform | HEPA. Right? And that's what we're attempting to convey | with that. And so--it's fair to say that we needed to re- | examine some of the language to make sure that it's saying | what we're intending to say." | | The NAD and NARB cases made clear that this was an | understatement: All of Molekule's quantified claims about | the Air's performance; all of its claims about superiority | to HEPA; all of its customer and doctor testimonials about | the ability of the Air's filter to reduce asthma and | allergy symptoms; and many of its claims to have been | independently tested, were ruled unsupported. Other claims | were ruled too broad." | alasdair_ wrote: | We bought a Dyson fan when we had very small children that | liked to stick their fingers into moving fan blades. It works | really well for that purpose. | SamBam wrote: | We have two cheap, basic standing fans with the standard | wire guard around them. | | At various ages we wondered if the kids could put their | fingers in and touch the blades, and so prompted them to | (while the fans were off, of course). | | At no point could the kids' fingers get to the blades. | Either their fingers were too short, or, eventually, too | fat. | itsoktocry wrote: | Yeah, I'm skeptical that any reasonably new fan under | modern safety standards could a) allow children's fingers | to reach in to the blade, or b) do any real damage if | they can reach it. The idea that it's a Dyson or fingers | get chopped off is funny. But I guess people have to | justify spending $500 on a fan. | Angostura wrote: | I bet they could get pencils in there though. I Know _I_ | did. | toast0 wrote: | newer fans have much tighter spacing on the guards. Of | course, plastic is still plastic, so 10 year old fans | that had tighter spacing are going to have lots of broken | off sections so you can make cool noises with the fan and | [other objects] | fossuser wrote: | Nice - yeah that sounds like a great use case for it. | WiseWeasel wrote: | They'd probably only do it once. It builds character, | similar to == in JS or PHP. | IgorPartola wrote: | strcpy() has entered the chat. | dwaite wrote: | They'd probably do it no more than ten times. | smileysteve wrote: | Assuming now tongues, toes, or ears. | bayindirh wrote: | In some extreme cases they can go up to ~20. But after | 25, it becomes really a corner case. | Cerium wrote: | I sure did it more than ten times, but quickly learned to | be careful and insert the finger slowly into the moving | fan. | edelans wrote: | I'm afraid you missed the joke here =) | jodrellblank wrote: | I can't tell if they missed the joke about losing 10 | fingers and having to stop there, or if you missed their | joke that you can insert the same finger multiple times | as long as you only lose a bit of a finger each time. | jb1991 wrote: | Says no one who has ever raised kids. | Judgmentality wrote: | Plenty of people raise their kids this way. When I see | parents laugh when their kids fall down instead of panic, | I smile. And the best part? The kids smile too, because | they're actually looking to their parents for how to | react. | | I'd rather raise daredevils than anxious wrecks. My best | friend has a kid who's always climbing on stuff, falling | down, getting hurt. That kid is going to grow up to be | awesome. | jb1991 wrote: | Falling down is totally different than sticking your | fingers into a fan. | semi-extrinsic wrote: | Well, for both cases the risk depends entirely on the | (here unspecified) circumstances. Sticking your fingers | in a fan where the blades have a low moment of inertia | and the motor has low stall torque? You'll be fine. | Falling down and hitting your head on the edge of a rock? | Could put you in hospital for weeks. | VRay wrote: | Yeah, if the kid grows up he'll be awesome for sure | Judgmentality wrote: | Would you rather take a chance at greatness, or a | certainty at mediocrity? | | No guts no glory. | catmanjan wrote: | Surely laughing when your child falls over leads to them | enjoying others misfortunes | Judgmentality wrote: | I think you're assuming the laughter is _at_ the child, | not _with_ the child. It 's laughing about a mistake | because that's what makes us human. | catmanjan wrote: | Do children understand that nuance? I would have thought | they would associate people falling with laughing | harperlee wrote: | When I pick up my children from a small fall, and I laugh | belittling the hit, they do not feel mocked at, instead | laughing with me. I think the kind of insecurity that | makes you suspect that people are laughing _at_ you comes | later - and if you don 't have crappy parents you don't | even come close to suspecting that _your parents might be | laughing at you_... | | Obviously you don't laugh with big falls and broken arms. | catmanjan wrote: | But when your children are with their friends, and their | friends fall over, do they laugh? Maybe their friends | aren't as confident | harperlee wrote: | They are still very young. | | But from my own childhood I can remember that kids are | not subtle - if they are mocking you, you will know | (names, finger-pointing, jokes, etc.). Whereas if a | friend laughs with you about a silly fall, you get a | completely different kind of scenario played out. | | Coming back to your initial point, and being blunt: | showing your children that clumsy falls can be funny, and | not to panic about them, does not increase their cruelty | towards other kids. | thekingofravens wrote: | They aren't dogs. They understand a lot more than you | would expect. | Spivak wrote: | I mean you can tell you kid 100 times not to touch the | stove but they don't lean the lesson until they actually | try once when you're not looking. | victor106 wrote: | Why is the medifyair your favorite? I wasn't able to find any | reviews I could trust on it. | hedora wrote: | Wirecutter has a review of one of the Medifyair models. | They don't recommend it because it's too big, and overkill | for their test apartment in New York City. It had the | highest CADR in their testing. | | For a modest house in the Bay Area during fire season, we | needed a high MERV furnace filter and also two filters | similar to their recommended models, so I moved up to the | Medifyair. It arrived after the last fires, but it seems to | work extremely well. | | Hopefully, we won't need it this year... | fossuser wrote: | I have a bunch of air filters (I live in the bay area | during fire season). | | Coway Air Mega | | Coway Mighty | | Blue Air | | Medify Air | | They're basically all equivalent and they all work. | | The reason I like the Medifyair is because it can move the | largest volume of air relative to those so it can clear a | space quickly (and quietly). I also think it looks nice | (though it is huge). | | Of the rest, the Blue Air uses weird custom filters which I | think cost a little more (though I haven't had to replace | them yet). The Coway Mighty is also pretty small and mostly | for a tiny room. | | Relatedly, if you're interested in sensors I think the | TemTop sensors are the best (I've tried a bunch of | different ones, and a lot of them suck). | | Some details on this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/AirQu | ality/comments/ikf1ed/are_ther... | krrrh wrote: | I have one that we keep in our daughters nursery. The thing I | like most is that it can run in auto mode and night mode | meaning that it's on all the time and the fan only runs from | level 1-4 out of 10, which also means silent operation. It | has a sensor for air particle and VOC that causes it to turn | up. It seems to work (like if I fluff pillows or make the bed | beside it it will detect a spike in particulates on the graph | around that time. So, set and forget, silent operation, and | safety for small fingers made it the best choice for us | despite tests showing lower efficacy over a defined time | frame. | hedora wrote: | We recently bought the giant one with the ridiculously high | CADR. They removed the air quality sensor (covid parts | shortage?), so there's no auto mode for that model, at | least. :-( | | It's noisier than expected, but on low it's quiet enough | and fine for our entire house during "normal" bad pollution | days (PM 2.5 between 100 and 300). During severe smoke from | wildfires (PM 2.5 > 300), I'm OK with it being noisy. | dec0dedab0de wrote: | I had the dyson fan with the heater and filter for a short | time, as well as a medify. I was disappointed with both, and | returned them. | | The dyson looked cool, but the heat function was kinda | useless unless you sat right next to it. i might get another | one without the heat. | | The medify seemed to work well, but it felt like it was | poorly made. I kept thinking I could probably diy something | just as good. Though the main reason I returned it was | because the advertising claimed it came with two sets of | filters, when it only came with one. | | I bought both of these last year after almost a decade of | wanting to get an air filter, and not doing it. The whole | industry feels like a scam. This is why I stopped shaving 20 | years ago. | numpad0 wrote: | Fan intakes on non-purifying Dyson do get plugged with dust | over time, so it makes sense to add filters. Aside from whether | it makes sense to advertise them as air purifiers. | hangonhn wrote: | That makes me wonder if that was how the product originated. | Dyson realizes its fans have a problem. Engineers suggest an | air filter. Marketing see an opportunity. | wombatmobile wrote: | The Dyson marketing person's angle is a sleight of hand: | | "Dyson has developed its own testing methodology, the POLAR | test method, which, unlike the CADR, Hill said, "measures | the intelligence of the purifier, the ability for it to | know when that room is clean or dirty and automatically | react, and its ability to mix that pure air around the | room." | | The detection function seems of spurious value if the | device is operating at max capacity regardless of whether a | pollutant is detected or not. | | Is that the case, or does the Dyson adjust volumetric flow | to match the detected level of pollutants? That would make | sense in the case of smoke, although humans could detect | smoke and turn the device on or off accordingly. | | COVID19 particles are a different case. If the Dyson can | detect those and switch itself on, eliminating the virus | from the room, $800 is a bargain. But it can't. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | I live in a large loft-style apartment on two floors which is | actually a large room. There are only a few windows and they | are placed in a way that no air draft gets created. | | When I bought a purifier, one of the things I was looking for | was air movement. I position my Dyson so that there's a draft | throughout the apartment. | | I thought this would improve the air filtration because the air | would move through my home and eventually reach my purifier. | | My previous experience with a purifier was a Honeywell tower | that didn't move air. I noticed an improvement when I switched | to a unit that moves air better. | | Am I wrong? Should I give up Dyson anyway and choose another | product? | winkeltripel wrote: | The answer is always a boxfan taped to whatever filter you | want to use. | ortusdux wrote: | My issue is the cost. | | My local costco has these units in store for $800 USD. | Further down the isle they have oscillating tower fans for | $30, and smart air filters for $100. I bought two pairs of | each before winter. The fans are quiet, have plenty of | control options, and non-volatle memory so you can use them | with smart plugs. The air purifiers are 4 stage, with active | charcoal and a long life (6 mo, 20$) hepa filter. They are | wifi enabled, monitor and log air quality, and controllable | from a phone. The purifiers should filter my bedroom's air | once every 10 minutes, and ~15 min for my living room. This | was all under 300$. | | Edit: to answer your question, the regular dyson fans are | great. They quietly and efficiently move air. Pointing one at | a real air filter should really help the filter do its job. | My issue is that dyson built a small filter into their fans | and doubled the price. | pmontra wrote: | Serendipity happens: I was looking at a number of videos | about DIY Dyson fans after I learned that bladeless fans | exist. Then this post on HN. | | Examples | | https://youtu.be/vyJ4wA-3dnY | | https://youtu.be/sFRXkH2XjsU | ortusdux wrote: | They 3d print well if you have a good printer. I've seen | designs that use standard size computer fans, which make | them cheap and easy. | throwaway180118 wrote: | I wonder if the porous surface of 3D printed materials | affects the airflow | hoytschermerhrn wrote: | Dyson, like Apple, doesn't make products for nerds like us | who are willing to go through that level of effort. Their | prices are high because their products are simple and "just | work" without much fiddling. | driverdan wrote: | They charge high prices because of marketing. Suckers are | willing to pay more than their products are worth because | marketing has them convinced it's better. | TeMPOraL wrote: | What's being questioned here is whether this product | actually works (as air filter, as advertised). | NullPrefix wrote: | Sold for a high price and andertised as a working | solution is equivalent to a working product, in the mind | of a normie. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | While it may not be the best, it still does the job. | | My partner smokes indoor when I am not present and | there's no smoke odor when I get home. | | According to the chart on their app, the peak low air | quality from several cigarettes goes away within an hour | or so. https://imgur.com/a/0qgwT1F | IgorPartola wrote: | I recently got into building DIY air quality sensors. Any | kind of smoke hangs around in a room for many hours well | past when you can smell it. My house periodically spikes | in air pollutants (still looking for the cause but we are | moving soon anyways). The one night when PM2.5 spike from | safe levels of below 12 ug/m^3 to over 1000 for one night | was the worst sleep everyone in our house got. It seems | that it was the equivalent of smoking something like 44 | cigarettes in a day. Don't smoke, especially indoors. | It's a bad time. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | > Any kind of smoke hangs around in a room for many hours | well past when you can smell it. | | But once the sensors indicate that the PM2.5 is gone, | everything is fine, right? | IgorPartola wrote: | If that's sarcasm, you aren't providing enough context | for me to pick up what you are putting down. If not, then | the honest answer is "I don't know for sure, I'm still | researching it." | | From what I can tell, PM2.5 isn't the end-all be-all | metric and sensors can give false readings. That's why | I'm building multiple devices with different types of | sensors and monitoring multiple metrics. PM10 and PM1.0 | are also concerns, as is CO and CO2. I am researching | which VOC sensors to get because unfortunately not much | info is readily available. But from the research I've | read PM2.5 is the most prevalent and damaging in typical | households (CO being a big exception, but that's also | monitored by regular household CO alarms). I can tell | when someone has been frying something in the kitchen | from my bedroom sensor for example, and it lingers for a | while. I can also tell when outdoor air quality is poor, | and then my indoor air filter and closed windows do help. | I am still learning about all this, but in general this | data has been helpful to figure out when to open windows | to avoid headaches. | | I plan on publishing my findings at some point, but | currently I am still waiting on parts and PCBs and | working out the software to make it more usable without | having to run to grab a USB cable to flash new firmware | on the sensors. I was inspired by | https://www.airgradient.com/diy/ but those plans are | outdated and the dashboard is proprietary so less than | ideal. I am working with simply integrating my sensor | network with Home Assistant so I have to do very little | with frontend stuff. It was very quick to set up | notifications to my phone so I don't have to look at | sensor screens all the time. | ortusdux wrote: | I've never claimed that it does not filter, just that it | is a fraction as effective as the alternative at 5x the | price. We heat with wood in the winter and some smoke | escapes when you open the door to tend the fire. My $100 | unit filters the living room back down to the baseline in | ~15 min. | joncrane wrote: | Why wouldn't you just use a cheap fan in place of the Dyson? | Sounds like you have a separate purifier that does the | cleaning, and all you need is something that will move air. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | The only fans I can find that are big enough to move air | over two floors make more noise on their low setting than | the Dyson's on its high setting. Then there's the issue | that the fans would need to be connected to an app in order | to power automatically as air quality drops. | | (I don't have the Honeywell anymore as it was my ex's) | | This conversation makes me want to buy a second purifier | and simply stop purchasing filters for my Dyson. That way, | it would continue to work as a space heater and fan but the | air purifying would be done by a dedicated device. | | Makes sense as by rule of thumb, no "jack of all trades" | devices will ever be better than a dedicated device. | Hindsight is 20/20. | ortusdux wrote: | It sounds like you need a ceiling fan. I have an ADU with | a half loft and 26' ceiling over the other half. One | decent fan really moves the air. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | Sadly the second floor is a low and angled ceiling. We | had installed a ceiling fan with an adapted mount but it | wasn't long before one of us hit the fan while removing a | shirt. | | This sent the fan spinning at a weird angle and it hit | the ceiling. This broke the wooden blades and sent them | flying in all directions. | | So floor fan it is now. | koolba wrote: | Ceiling fans are awesome. Especially when you operate | them in reverse in the winter. | timthorn wrote: | The Unix philosophy of air handling. | hinkley wrote: | Vornado used to make an air filter that fires straight | upward, but they discontinued it in favor of a design with | proprietary filter media. | | Air filtration shouldn't be this expensive. | noodlenotes wrote: | It sounds like you're using the Dyson as a fan and something | else as the actual purifier. Sounds like that setup works | great for you, but it does prove the point that the Dyson is | a fan, not a purifier. | Karawebnetwork wrote: | My previous experience was with a Honeywell tower but I do | not have the device in my apartment anymore. | | What I am describing is that the Dyson ends up doing a | better job alone than the Honeywell did. Especially when it | comes to the second floor. However, as you said one could | quite likely achieve the same result with any air purifier | and a strong fan. | timthorn wrote: | The idea is that the fan is deployed in a closed room and over | time, all the air in the room will be circulated through the | filter. | wincy wrote: | But isn't using a fan too long in an enclosed room dangerous? | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death | gmfawcett wrote: | To the downvoters on wincy's comment: please let's not | downvote people for asking questions, or just because you | believe they are misinformed -- that's what replies are | for. | pdpi wrote: | You shouldn't downvote people for asking questions, but | asking a question and supporting it with a link that | tells you the answer is fair game, especially when your | "question" is an argument hidden behind a question mark, | and the link disproves that argument. | | There is, of course, the possibility that wincy's comment | was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, though. I personally | can't quite tell which way it was meant. | mindcrime wrote: | From the HN guidelines: | | _Please respond to the strongest plausible | interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one | that 's easier to criticize. Assume good faith._ | Dylan16807 wrote: | I'm not sure what you're implying, because both | interpretations are valid to downvote. | mindcrime wrote: | I'm saying that this statement _especially when your | "question" is an argument hidden behind a question mark,_ | is not consistent with the suggestion to "assume good | faith" espoused in the guidelines. | gmfawcett wrote: | I guess I was being charitable, and imagining that the | poster might be a Korean of a certain age where this myth | held weight. The article suggests that young Koreans have | changed attitudes, but that doesn't mean that everyone | has. I think the comment replies to his question did a | fine job challenging the myth. Obviously it's just my | opinion, but I'd rather save downvotes for people who | were clearly trolling or maliciously off-topic (and I | don't see that here). | pdpi wrote: | To be clear, I didn't downvote their comment -- I don't | think it warranted it -- I'm just saying I can sympathise | with the argument that a comment that doesn't add | anything useful to the discussion is a fair target for a | downvote. | | Saying "But what about x?" when you yourself provide a | link that says that X is a non-issue doesn't make for an | engaging discussion. "But what about x? This link | suggests it's not a problem but I think it is because of | y" does make for an engaging discussion, even if y is | seemingly nonsense. | gmfawcett wrote: | That's a fair point. Thanks for the respectful | conversation about this. :) | [deleted] | mmastrac wrote: | No. This is yet another urban myth. | | "Despite no concrete evidence to support the concept, | belief in fan death persists to this day in Korea,[further | explanation needed] and also to a lesser extent in | Japan.[1][2][3]" | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: | I'm sure the comment was sarcastic. | encom wrote: | Better downvote, just to make sure. --Hackernews | renerthr wrote: | The Japanese version of that Wikipedia article has the | Japanese phrase for "Urban legend" in the title, unlike | the English version. The literal translation of that | title would be "Urban legend of electric fan". | bloomingeek wrote: | I have worked night shift for 30 years. I sleep with a | box fan in my bedroom with the door shut to filter out | noise. Works really well. | ortusdux wrote: | IIRC, this myth stems from a successful govt propaganda | campaign that aimed to reduce power usage at night and | put an end to rolling blackouts. | mminer237 wrote: | The Wikipedia article cites that as being yet another | myth, although it is disproven by evidence of belief in | fan death long before the blackouts. | WillPostForFood wrote: | The wiki page links to the EPA which does advise against | fans in a closed room when it is over 90F: | | _Don 't Use a portable electric fan in a closed room | without windows or doors open to the outside. ... Don't | Use a portable electric fan to blow extremely hot air on | yourself. This can accelerate the risk of heat | exhaustion. ... Don't direct the flow of portable | electric fans toward yourself when room temperature is | hotter than 90 degF."_ | kemayo wrote: | That one's interesting in part because South Korea mostly | doesn't get that hot. (Summer highs seem to be mid-80s | Fahrenheit.) | | Looking at climate data for the country, I was struck by | how similar it is to upper Missouri. Saint Louis is about | as humid, but a bit hotter on average. Which would make | me suspect that if "fan death" was a thing, we'd be | seeing it in a band of US States that're similarly hot | and humid. | | Speculative difference would be if air conditioning is | really uncommon in South Korea, but presumably we could | even that out by comparing to poorer people in the US. | djrogers wrote: | No, it's not. | solarmist wrote: | Lol. Been a while since I've seen that. | [deleted] | radicaldreamer wrote: | For recurring revenue... selling only the fan, you get one sale | and you're done. Selling the fan but with a filter unit, some | subset of customers will replace the filter every 6 months as | "recommended" and you have recurring revenue on that fan | forever. | cptskippy wrote: | Dyson filters aren't consumables. You wash them out and reuse | them. | ska wrote: | I'm pretty sure there aren't any reusable HEPA filters | regardless of vendor. | | Lots of units will have a washable pre-filter, but that's | to pick up big stuff and extend the life of the disposable | part. | thesh4d0w wrote: | On a vaccum they are washable, on my tower fan they're | replacable. | | I ordered some from china (probably fake) for $30 rather | than the $100 dyson wanted. | soylentcola wrote: | Then I imagine part of it is the fact that people are | willing to spend $x on a fan (of any sort) and $x+y on an | air purifier. | | If an air purifier is generally accepted to be a higher- | price item, then making a fan into one with some sort of | filter helps justify the higher price. | | (Just speculation, though. I have no info about their | design or marketing decisions.) | kelvie wrote: | Are they? We have a modern unit (with the 2 stage filter), | adn they send a notification when you have to buy a new | one, for $99 CAD | detritus wrote: | The company famed for creating bagless vacuums added a | 'bag' to a product that doesn't necessarily need it? | | Dyson's stance on Brexit makes ever more sense... . | ashtonkem wrote: | Having just gone back to a bagged vacuum, I genuinely | wonder why people ever accepted bag-less vacuums in the | first place. | | Aside from the "empty the canister out and watch all fine | dust float back into my house" issue, vacuum bags | function as one massive filter. It's not physically | possible to build a filter into a bag less vacuum that | approaches the size or capability of the vacuum bag | itself. | cma wrote: | Bagless vacuums will typically have a pleated filter for | the fine particles. Pleating expands the surface area. | tpxl wrote: | Water works really well as a filter. | ortusdux wrote: | Wow, they have a payment plan for the filters. | | https://www.dyson.com/support/journey/tools/970341-01 | Dumblydorr wrote: | We bought a larger Honeywell model for around 250 USD to help cut | down on smokiness from woodstove, cat hair, and general dust. It | works quite nicely, though it does have a high pitched whirr on | higher settings. I don't have a PM monitor but anecdotally, it | cuts through smokiness quite nicely. | carabiner wrote: | If you're on the west coast, the time to buy these filters is | now. They regularly sell out during the summer/fall fire season. | joshe wrote: | If you are in the SF bay area, LA, Australia, or another place | with wildfire smoke problems, the 3M filtrete MPR 1900 filters | with a fan is close to ideal. | | All the smoke uses up a lot of filter material, and this | alternative has 10x cheaper filter replacement. It also moves a | lot more air through a lot more filter, cleaning everything up | more quickly. And the lack of aesthetics is fine for a few weeks. | It's worth doing even if you rock a normal filter most of the | year. | | For an upgrade use a few silent computer case fans instead and | you can have a super quiet setup to run all day. | diebeforei485 wrote: | > Using incense smoke in 24.0 m3 chamber | | Yeah, that's not the sort of indoor air that people actually | have. | ListenLinda wrote: | One of the best air filters is your furnace + good air filter. No | need for additional products. | | But if you go with a Merv 14 filter (which is amazing by the | way), you will spend some serious money. Merv 12 is affordable. | Merv 11 is an insult to air filters. | tareqak wrote: | The recommended pick from the Wirecutter is the Coway AP-1512HH | Mighty (as of this post, the recommendation was last updated | January 15, 2021) [0]. The CADR is available on Coway's product | page in what I assume to be imperial units given the units of the | other specifications: "233 (Smoke), 246 (Dust), 240 (Pollen)" | (under "Specification") [1]. This CADR score puts it just between | the BlueAir Blue Pure 211 and GermGuardian AC530B in the graph | from the post [2]. | | [0] https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-air- | purifier... | | [1] https://cowaymega.com/products/coway-mighty-ap-1512hh | | [2] | https://i.cbc.ca/1.5902727.1612545406!/fileImage/httpImage/i... | liminalsunset wrote: | Some additional info about this device is available from Energy | Star to confirm the CADR ratings are in cfm. [0] This is odd, | as the standard for CADR is often in m3/h. That works out to | about 420 ish m3/h in this case. | | I rememeber seeing a video on YouTube indicating this device | takes 2.2W on low, 4.4 on medium, and about 40 on high. [1] The | disparity is reasonable, as the fan laws state that power | increases with the cube of shaft speed, and airflow is | proportional. Given that the product runs with such low power, | it uses a brushless dc motor. | | The only issue with this device is that it appears to lack | serious amounts of carbon filtration - no hundreds of grams of | carbon pellets for odor and chemical adsorption. Not sure if | this could be added as a DIY addon. | | [0] | https://www.energystar.gov/productfinder/product/certified-r... | | [1] 5:25 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBv2aPMWdmI | ska wrote: | > [0] This is odd, | | I suspect by "odd" here you just mean "american". US | consumers really don't like having to convert units. | pchristensen wrote: | Our Coway (bought from the Wirecutter recommendation) has been | running for 2.5 years straight. The members of my household | with asthma appreciate it year-round and especially during | fire/smoke season. | JohnBooty wrote: | We have four in our house and they are _workhorses._ Still | running strong and quiet 3-4 years later of running 24 /7. | Probably one of the best things I've ever bought. | | They are also popular enough, and have been around long enough, | that there is an "ecosystem" of third party replacement filters | that are affordable and capable. | | The sound of the Coway is also quite nice for sleeping in our | opinion. It's a quiet "whoooosh", not grating at all. | | Given the observed longevity of the Coways, I suspect they are | actually cheaper than "DIY box fan" solution after a couple of | years if you're running them 24/7. Sure, you can get a cheap | box fan, but you'll be lucky if it lasts 6-12 months running | 24/7 while trying to suck air through a filter. | budlightvirus wrote: | What benefits do you feel from having four filters? Not | hating, genuinely curious. It's just never occurred to me to | filter the air in my home aside from burning something on the | stove or similar | rickyc091 wrote: | It's not a necessity if you have the window open to move | around the air, but that's typically not as much of an | option in the winter. You'd be surprised how much dust and | particles a purifier picks up. | | If you take a look at the photos for the Blue Air 211 on | Amazon, you can see how much it picks up. Mine was exactly | like the photos. The pre-filter was completely covered in | dust, and the inner filter was completely dark after 6 | months of use. | JohnBooty wrote: | It's not a necessity if you have the window open to move | around the air, | | If you live in an urban area or someplace else with lots | of air pollution, the outdoor air might be a problem! | | Of course, I don't think an air filter like this would be | very effective with the windows open. | s0rce wrote: | I have one in the bedroom and one in the main living/office | area. They were essential in California during the past few | years of fires. The indoor air quality was maintained | consistently while outdoors was horrendous. | JohnBooty wrote: | That's a good question, happy to answer. | | I have asthma and mild allergies triggered by pet dander | and sometimes seasonal pollen and such. It's a 3 bedroom | house. 7 rooms total. And we have pets, because we're dumb. | | Ideally we'd have one filter for each room, but they're not | the cheapest things, so we just keep them in the rooms | where we spend the most time. | | Do they work? They've had a positive impact on my | asthma/allergies. Not a magic cure, but nothing is. | Obviously, it is a part of a comprehensive strategy that | includes vacuuming and so forth. | | Side benefits of the filters are that they also cut down on | dust accumulation on surfaces, and are somewhat effective | at reducing odors in general thanks to the swappable | charcoal filters. | | (FWIW they used to go on sale for like $119 once in a | while, in pre-COVID times. That's when we got ours...) | It's just never occurred to me to filter the air | in my home aside from burning something on the | stove or similar | | Yeah, I don't think this is some sort of thing that | _everybody_ needs to do. | | If you're currently doing fine, then this doesn't seem like | something you need.... | debaserab2 wrote: | It depends greatly on your climate. I didn't need one in | the midwest, where air quality is pretty good and there's a | lot of humidity in the air, but when I moved westward I | definitely noticed the difference in air quality (my | asthmatic symptoms came back which I haven't had since I | was a child). | | Especially in autumn when the wildfires start up - even if | it's many miles away there is a very noticeable degradation | in air quality. | fireattack wrote: | I'm also curious about running them 24/7. | s0rce wrote: | Mine run 24/7 on low for a few years so far, one is going | on 3 years and the other is about 8 months. No issues | other than periodic cleaning and filter replacement. Main | hint: keep a spare filter before California fire season. | JohnBooty wrote: | I've actually been running mine on "2" the ("medium") | setting for 3-4 years with no problems. | | I have asthma, allergies, and pets so.... yeah. Medium it | is for me. | jjjeii3 wrote: | Dyson also created an awful robot cleaner: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TH56kTJ-h4 | | (video in German) | | It works worse than almost anything on the market and is | ridiculously expensive. | ogre_codes wrote: | If I was running a business and wanted maximum filtration for | cheap, the box fan is rad. I want something which sits in my | office and quietly sucks little bits of crud from the air. The | Dyson absolutely does that job. Probably not as much as a loud | ass box fan, but that's not the point. | | There are other solutions which might do what the Dyson does in | terms of noise/ air circulation, but the box fan rig isn't it. | clarkevans wrote: | This seems similar to https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/how-to- | make-diy-air-puri... (2013) | burlesona wrote: | Meanwhile I can vouch for the top performer in this test. I have | multiple BlueAir filters in different sizes. They work very well, | are reasonably quiet, look nice, and while they're not cheap they | aren't the most expensive either. Most importantly I also measure | particulate and the measurements back up what I can already tell | just by smell: the BlueAir really do filter the air well. | butterisgood wrote: | I've got one of these Dyson purifiers + humidifiers, and it does | seem to make the air noticeably nicer in the room we us it in. | | But it's definitely NOT worth the price tag, as with all things | Dyson lately. (Loved my vacuum 10 years ago, but the stick | vacuums are kind of overpriced idiocy - get an Oreck) | hansvm wrote: | Box fan filters are great. The fans aren't really designed to | operate with much load, so I had issues with the motors burning | up eventually (3-12mo) when trying to force air through too fine | of a filter (somewhere around merv 15 iirc, taped at the edges to | prevent air from going around). | | In college I had a _really_ cheap flat, and all my neighbors were | chain smokers. I didn't realize quite how bad it was in my | apartment (large gaps under the door, etc) till a classmate | pulled me aside and asked how long I'd been smoking -- apparently | the residue on my clothes was easy for anyone with a functioning | nose to recognize when I walked nearby. Long story short, box fan | filters completely fixed that problem, and as an added benefit | you could set one up next to any cooking disasters and watch the | smoke get pulled from the air. | cjlars wrote: | You can reduce load on the fan by increasing the number of | filters. Arrange 2 into a wedge or 4 into a cube around the box | fan and direct the airflow with cardboard and tape. Worked | great at our drafty place during the forest fires last summer. | dirktheman wrote: | Technology Connections did an episode on air humidifiers a while | ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHeehYYgl28 | | The fan and filter size matter the most. Most of these things are | hugely overpriced for what they are. | rblatz wrote: | After watching his dishwasher episode I lost all respect for | him. He clearly forced that episode and his conclusions were | predetermined so he could have a clickbait video title/theme. | [deleted] | ljf wrote: | Can you elaborate? That episode really worked for me, and fit | with my own experience of dishwashers and adding pre wash. My | latest machine doesn't have a prewash holder, but does have a | prewash cycle on the eco setting - which cleans fine for the | majority of my needs - but if things are filthy I through | some bicarb in to the machine before I turn it on and it is | awesome. | rblatz wrote: | I'm getting ready to hop into some meetings, so here is the | short version, I can elaborate more later today. | | So he only measured cleaning results after the pre wash | cycle and not after the full cycle. Obviously you would | expect a short wash with soap to be better than a short | wash without. And the results there were a lot closer than | I would have expected. | | He completely ignored final results while opining that | dishwasher tabs aren't effective without actually testing | them side by side. | ljf wrote: | Cheers, I get your drift ;) | | I can see what you mean but I feel his outcome has some | validity and I find his video/tv stuff far far more | interesting | darkstar999 wrote: | All respect? Sheesh. He still makes great content even if you | don't agree with that single video. | 0x486566e7279 wrote: | I have tired this with an air quality sensor (measuring VOC, | PM2.5, and PM10) and found doing this method I had a huge | increase in PM2.5 compared to baseline levels (1-2 to 100-280), | so I imagine this method would only work well if you have | distilled water. I would also be worried about bacteria and | mold. | KingOfCoders wrote: | I was a Dyson fan boy for years. Then bought a 1/3 price Miele | vacuum cleaner which was less noisy and more effective. | | The Dyson looked nicer though with the designer colors. | [deleted] | liminalsunset wrote: | Was personally hoping for a noise-normalized version of the test, | as well since I'd imagine most people aren't going to keep an air | purifier running on high, and the low setting may not deliver the | requisite airflow. | hytdstd wrote: | The article completely ignores noise. I personally have a box fan | filter, but I don't pretend that it's appropriate or better for | most people-- it's loud and annoying to work in the same room, | and almost impossible to sleep with. And it is important that | they're constantly on [0] (air quality generally reverts to | normal levels in less than 2 hours), because all homes breathe to | mitigate moisture and mold growth. | | [0]: https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/can-you-turn-off-your- | pu... | chmod600 wrote: | > "I think what we're trying to do is pull back a little bit from | the CADR metric," he said. "Not everyone needs an enormous CADR, | has huge rooms or incredibly dirty air." | | It seems plausible that CADR is becoming just a bigger number | without improving effectiveness, like megapixels. | | It also seems plausible that Dyson is just struggling to avoid | commoditization because it's a losing battle for them. And it's | possible some of that has merit, because running a noisy fan when | the air is already clean seems annoying. | sdljfjafsd wrote: | CADR is an important metric for determining if a purifier is | correct for your room. You can use it to calculate how many air | changes it does per hour. If that number is too low, the air | purifier is not going to work well in your room. Basically | there's a minimum CADR for each room in your house, but of | course, exceeding that gives you little benefit. Most people | search for devices that are ~4 air changes per hour. | oblib wrote: | I've been taping filters to box fans for decades. Got them | running in my home and office 24/7. I put a filter on each side. | It's pretty impressive how much they catch. | pwinnski wrote: | My Coway AP-1512HH has a CADR of 400 m3/hr, higher than all but | the most expensive purifier they tested, and was $150 when I | bought it. Looks like it's $200 now, though. | okprod wrote: | I bought a Blueair and a Winix based on wirecutter and other | reviews, they've been performing pretty well against cigarette | smoke and cooking. | Exuma wrote: | Saving for later when I need an air purifier | tomhoward wrote: | In Australia, K-Mart has a house-brand bladeless fan for AUD$89. | The Dyson full-sized bladeless fans cost $600-$800. The reviews | of the K-Mart cheapo one are very positive, both from customers | and review publications. | | We bought one for the baby's room and it's been great so far. It | also doubles as a white noise generator. | dylan604 wrote: | That's a name I haven't heard in a long while. K-Mart was | always one of those stories of going to live on a farm upstate. | Now, I know that it actually went to live in a land down under. | julianlam wrote: | After watching this segment, I immediately bought a 20" box fan, | a 20x20 MERV 11 filter, and put one together. | | It kicks the pants off of air purifiers twice the price and it | moves a lot of air through. Best investment ever. | | CBC was testing CADR, which is one metric among others, but an | important one if you're looking to clean a room's air, fast. | kube-system wrote: | I've used a box fan with a 20x20 filter for years when I'm | doing woodworking, but it's a little too clunky of a solution | to use in my primary living space. | dylan604 wrote: | I love the fact that Lasko has decided to own this concept | with box fan designed specifically for this setup. It looks | much better than a filter taped to the outside of the fan. | Maybe this would help with your decor vs cleaner air | conundrum? | | https://www.amazon.com/Lasko-FF305-20-inch-Purifier- | Purifyin... | arctangos wrote: | I am an EU resident (Netherlands) and have wanted to make a DIY | air filter for myself for several years. Unfortunately, I | simply can't find any flat box fans on the market. Would | someone else in the EU be willing to point me in the right | direction? | turtlebits wrote: | They are great for reacting to bad air quality (like | wildfires), but are way too loud for normal use. | | I have an Awair and did that dance of turning on the box fan | filter when levels were higher than normal, then turning it | back off once in normal range. | | Now I much prefer keeping a quieter (less performant unit) on | continuously to keep the levels low. | dylan604 wrote: | I've had one of these for years with MERV10-12 (depending on | availability) filters. This is in addition to the 20x25 filter | in the central unit. Judging by how dirty the filter on the box | fan gets, it is amazing how the central unit is just unable to | do an adequate job. | Rebelgecko wrote: | Does your central air also use a merv 10 filter? A lot of | people use the cheap fiberglass ones which are not very | effective | Zardoz84 wrote: | > Siegel and other indoor air experts said you should avoid ion | generators and plasma air cleaners, which can emit ozone, a | respiratory hazard that can cause serious health problems. | | Ozone (O3) are used to deodorize, fungicide, and disinfect air | (and water, or products bathed with ozonized water). O3 is secure | if the concentration isn't too high. And it's really effective | doing this. Far better and secure that chlorine. Plus the O3 | becomes natural O2 given enough time (like 10 to 30 minutes for a | room with a high O3 concentraion to be enought low to be safe.) | | I know very well that were it's used to disinfect air coiling | tower, the risk of legionella bacterium infections, becomes 0. | And I saw personally how effective it's to keeping at bay fungus | on a problematic damp basement. | pyrophane wrote: | From what I can tell getting a good air purify is all about how | much air the thing is actually able to move through the filter, | which is primary a combination of filter size and the design of | the fan itself. At its core, an air purifier is a remarkably | simple product. The biggest mistake people make when buying these | things is getting something that cannot exchange enough air to | keep the room it is in clean. Manufactures contribute to this | problem by overstating the square footage their units can cover. | | With respect to Dyson, I think that their cordless stick vacuums | are pretty good, and you can sometimes find good deals on them | that can make them not too expensive. They have decent suction | that probably compares okay to many low-end corded vacuums, and | the battery life is reasonable. If you have only a small area to | vacuum, and it is mostly hard floors, the Dyson cordless vacs are | a reasonable purchase. Just don't expect them to compare to a | decent corded vac in the same price range in terms of power. | sgustard wrote: | Wirecutter came to similar conclusions about the Molekule: | | https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/blog/worst-air-purifier-w... | Tade0 wrote: | Last year I bought an air purifier for ~800, but _PLN_ ($1 = | 3,7129 PLN at the time of writing) to deal with the Polish winter | - already swapped out the HEPA and carbon filter( <$40 total | cost) because the air coming out started to smell bad(four days | of 120ug/m3+ smog with peak at 200ug/m3 tend to do that to | filters). | | At a CADR of 300m3/h I think the price/value ratio is decent, as | opposed to whatever Dyson is trying to con people into buying. | reaperducer wrote: | The cobbled together box fan may work better than a Dyson, but my | wife isn't going to let me put a cobbled together box fan in the | library. | | People care about aesthetics. There are entire industries built | around this, even in technical areas (industrial design, UX, | etc...) | | So the Dyson wins simply because it will exist in the house and | clean a portion of the air, while the Sanford and Son rig won't | be in the house and will clean zero air. | bluGill wrote: | So hire a cabinet maker to build a nice box around it. | reaperducer wrote: | _So hire a cabinet maker to build a nice box around it._ | | For that price of a good cabinet maker, I could buy a whole | fleet of Dysons. | h2odragon wrote: | Great project for kids and cardboard, too. | clarkevans wrote: | > my wife isn't going to let me put a cobbled together box fan | in the library | | Perhaps https://smartairfilters.com/en/product/sqair-air- | purifier/ ? It's simply a fan + filter in an attractive box. | hinkley wrote: | Vornado has a similar model (qube50) and I would trust them | to stick around longer. | kyriakos wrote: | I don't understand how air purification systems work. I live in a | relatively warm climate so windows are at least partly open most | of the year. How would an air purifier help me if air keeps | flowing in and out the windows? | hiven wrote: | The quality of the products is really poor. Cheap materials, | sloppy tolerances and no longevity. The best team in Dyson is the | marketing function to make people spend so much on so little. I | won't even comment on the man himself. | hedora wrote: | I wish they'd tested this DIY air filter instead. They made a 20" | cube, where one face is a box fan, and four faces are filters. | Brilliant: | | https://www.thisoldhouse.com/green-home/22231148/diy-air-fil... | | It should have a much higher CADR than the single filter version | at lower backpressure. That means less noise and more energy | efficiency. | f430 wrote: | People are surprised that people are overpaying for a brand | premium for a dismal product like Beats headphones. | | How else will Mr. Dyson be able to afford an 8~9 digit | Singaporean penthouse? | | Certainly didn't become a billionaire by building an affordable, | efficient working product and not using misleading marketing to | obfuscate the short comings. | JPKab wrote: | "Marketplace took its results and questions to Dyson engineer | David Hill at the company's headquarters in Malmesbury, England. | | "We are, we think, delivering quite a good value proposition for | the consumer," he said, stressing that Dyson purifiers can sense | pollutants in the air as well as capture them, and also provide | strong air projection." | | I just want to point out the above: Along with the picture, it | gives the appearance that a reporter waited outside of a Dyson | office and started interviewing an engineer. | | I've literally never seen a piece like this where the company's | PR department ALLOWED an engineer to be interviewed. | | I certainly hope Mr. Hill didn't get in big trouble for this. At | my company, if I speak to a reporter without explicit permission | from legal, I'm a goner immediately. | PieUser wrote: | It's the same guy from this video [1]. | | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k1-ui-hOOs | indigomm wrote: | I've been to Dyson's HQ and I very much doubt they just grabbed | an engineer. There is a security post and employees generally | drive straight in and out. I can't see how you could interview | anyone, assuming you work out who the engineers are. | post_break wrote: | I bought an expensive Dyson air purifier for a couple of reasons. | It has a remote so I can turn it on from bed. It looks | attractive. The sound profile is much different than a box fan | for sleeping at night. It can analyze the temperature, humidity, | and air quality in real time and turn on if it notices air | quality is getting bad. It also oscillates. | | That said yes it was expensive, but it replaced needing a fan for | cooling and an air purifier, and if I needed a heater it could | have done triple duty. | kelvie wrote: | We're also in the same boat. It's something that stays out all | the time. It's just unsightly to keep a box fan filter out all | the time (we used one when we first moved out, and man, the | back of the filter gets _disgusting_ ). | | Looks do matter, and at least for our decor, there isn't really | much choice. We pick our furniture based on how it mathes our | interior decor, why would an air purifier be any different if | it's out and on all the time? | ska wrote: | I suspect the answer here isn't "replace your dyson with a | box fan and bungie cords" but - if you care about air | filtration, buy a cheaper more effective one that looks ok. | | It's not surprising a 3-in-1 product isn't very good at (at | least) 1 of those functions. | rconti wrote: | It's obviously popular to hate on silly-expensive tech, but | these quotes were telling for me: | | > "I think what we're trying to do is pull back a little bit | from the CADR metric," he said. "Not everyone needs an enormous | CADR, has huge rooms or incredibly dirty air." | | > Several experts told Marketplace the CADR is the most | important metric and an internationally recognized benchmark. | | > "CADR is what you want to know, period," said Francis (Bud) | Offermann, an indoor air quality researcher who has helped | develop test methods for the performance of portable air | cleaners with the American Association of Home Appliance | Manufacturers (AHAM). | | CADR may well be "what you want to know, period" when it come | to air filtration. However it might NOT be all you want to know | when buying a consumer product. If the filter is quiet and | effective and good looking and only ramps up when needed, is | this not in _some ways_ a better PRODUCT than a box fan running | at full speed all the time with a filter taped to it? | pfortuny wrote: | Exactly. Like dB. | | Same as "processor speed is all that matters"... well, not. I | honestly would gladly pay more for a QUIET computer (they are | become more available). | steve_adams_86 wrote: | Yeah, it felt a bit like me (a software developer) | recommending to someone to use Google Cloud for their blog | infrastructure rather than some basic one-size-fits-most | solution that may or may not meet their needs forever. | | These people come from civil engineering backgrounds where | air filtration requirements might often be thought of from an | industrial or at least much larger than a domestic/micro loft | scale. | | Having any air filtration at all at a smaller scale is | generally just great if you replace filters often enough, | don't aren't near industry or aren't in a city, don't cook at | home often... Even then, a smaller air purifier's going to do | an awesome job if you let it run regularly. | cowmoo728 wrote: | I'm also a little suspicious of relying entirely on the CADR | metric. If you're running a filter in an environment that's | constantly producing particulates and you need to filter | large volumes of air, it seems useful. If you're about to | walk into a smoke filled room and have 25 minutes to clean | the air first, there's no question that CADR is king. | | I think it would be interesting to run a purifier in a normal | house for 48 hours and see what the steady state particulate | levels settle at around the house. I would guess that over a | certain threshold CADR, there might not be that much | difference. Room air circulation combined with a good enough | CADR might even be more important, which is what Dyson | claims. | | For all the people in the bay area worried about the next | fire season, CADR is probably the most important since | there's an extreme source of particulates. I'm just not sure | that's the final say on air purifier effectiveness in less | extreme conditions. | bluGill wrote: | I'm more worried about the random friend who drops by. Sure | we wear a mask, but when can we take it off when they are | gone? | Bakary wrote: | You have to make sure the filter is HEPA, and calculate | whether the device has had the time to do a full air | change given the room size and its CADR rating. | | Viruses are generally too small for even the best | filters, but the droplets that carry them are well within | what a HEPA filter can manage. | ahaucnx wrote: | I am also living in an area with high periodic air | pollution from wildfires. I have now removed all my stand- | alone air purifiers and replaced them with a positive | pressure system that works so much better. I wrote about | the benefits of that system on our blog: | https://www.airgradient.com/blog/2020/01/08/positive- | pressur... | ListenLinda wrote: | Compare to your furnace (on fan mode) + air filter ... | | > It has a remote | | Check | | > It looks attractive | | Check. It's invisible. | | > sound profile | | Check. Furnace fans are in the garage. | | > analyze the temperature, humidity, and air quality | | Nope. But purpleair will sell it to your for $175. | | > oscillates | | Check. Covers entire flat. | ACow_Adonis wrote: | Disclaimer: Own the dyson cool-tower thingy, not the heat/cool | one (as it didn't seem worth the money IMO). It was $200-$300 | cheaper iirc. | | It does seem that they're comparing apples to oranges. Of | course if you optimise for one metric ignoring the trade-offs | and extra features: fixed air flow for a single given | particulate removal measure, the cheapest solution that arrives | at and maximises that metric is going to come out on top. | | But if you consider: | | - Hepa vs Merv - Additional carbon filter - Remote control - | Multiple pivot options - Multiple power options - In built | sensors and real-time reporting for small particles, large | particles, no2, volatile organics, temperature and humidity - | smaller horizontal footprint - Smartphone integration + remote | operation - noise footprint | | then "shock", you have to pay more to have those features! (and | they do provide value). | | Dyson certainly offers "I like to burn my money" options like | many other companies, and they're not priced cheaply, but it's | dishonest to review a sports car and a utility van on the | metric of boot space and proclaim a "one little trick they | don't want you to know about" type headline. | | Also, I haven't seen anyone else tackle it: what the hell is up | with this "corona-virus protection" hints and claims in this | article? Is that not enough to set off most people's internal | alarms that the article is quackery? | nateburt wrote: | I am surprised that so few people discuss the centralized, | presumably less-wasteful, less-cluttered alternative that is a | furnace-adjacent air bypass + filter (particularly relevant for | those of us with access to our own fans/furnaces). | | The idea, as I understand it, is that a furnace can be modified | by an HVAC specialist to send a portion of the air through a low- | flow bypass duct containing a HEPA filter (or some other high- | MERV-rating filter). This highly filtered air is, of course, | combined with the less-clean air that passes through the low-MERV | (standard) furnace filter before being delivered to ducts/rooms. | This enables filtering of air for the entire living space without | the need for an air purifier (a large plastic box containing | future e-waste) in each room where clean air is desired. One | obvious shortcoming of such a system is that in-duct/in-room | sources of particulates (including concentrated bursts of | particles from things like cooking) might be harder to combat. I | don't know whether such a system can reduce particulates to | levels commonly reached with in-room purifiers. | | Thoughts/adecdata on such setups? | Der_Einzige wrote: | Just buy a high merv (e.g. merv 16) filter and you'll be good. | No need to move the HEPA. Most modern hvac systems can support | high MERV filters and doing this will significantly clean your | air. | JoeAltmaier wrote: | Dyson is about design (art) not practicality. You want a boxy | filter that works well, go right ahead. But some people don't | want that in their living space. | | Ideally they could be beautiful, and clean properly. You can't | win them all. | ph4te wrote: | Not sure I like this article. I would have liked to see the | Levoit LV-PUR131 which is rated for 1000sqft/hr, 500sqft in 33 | mins at $190, instead of the little one which we know will have a | really low CFM/CADR. | | Blue Pure 211 rated 540sqft, GermGuardian rated 167sqft, | Honeywell HPA160 rated 170sqft, Dyson Hot + Cool Air Purifier | rated 290sqft. Levoit LV-H132 rated 68sqft, | | Also the Levoit is called out for being $150, as their cheapest, | however they are on Amazon or at the local box store for $90. | akeck wrote: | I've been making cubes with 3x 2" MERV-13 filters, two cardboard | panels, and a box fan. While large, they work really well for big | rooms. | stjohnswarts wrote: | I guess I'll bring up the "let your kids play in dirt argument" | and see if I get any comments. I've personally taken this path in | life and I seem to have much fewer allergies and immune issues | than lots of my friends who grew up with hospital-like childhood | circumstances. It could just be observor bias but it seems like | there is some underpinning to the theory of if you don't use it | you lose it when it comes to immunity. I do wash my hands and | keep my house tidy, but I don't dust every day or put in MERV32 | level air filters. (just cheapest-that-i-can-find MERV 8 | recommended by my HVAC manual) | s5300 wrote: | I think people tend to seek these types of things out after | they're already suffering from adverse effects that they want | to try to fix. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-02-11 23:00 UTC)