[HN Gopher] Shitbowl: The algorithmically powered in-home physic... ___________________________________________________________________ Shitbowl: The algorithmically powered in-home physical caching platform Author : fallingfrog Score : 415 points Date : 2021-02-13 14:20 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.shitbowl.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.shitbowl.com) | annoyingnoob wrote: | I thought this was a last-in-first-out stack? | adrianmonk wrote: | It's actually a self-organizing list with the move-to-front | method: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organizing_list | annoyingnoob wrote: | I suppose the shitbowl supports some amount of concurrency | and some times O(1) access to more than just the last item. | DavidPeiffer wrote: | Thanks for linking! Now I know the name for my strategy in my | spice cabinet. Most recently used spices go on the right, | slowly moving to the left with lack of use. | dmje wrote: | We've gone large in our house with ShitCupboard (tm), a much | bigger deployment of roughly the same framework | allenrb wrote: | Mine keeps throwing Overflow. How can I open a bug? | willis936 wrote: | It's a feature, not a bug. This problem is outside the scope of | this project and the issue should be filed upstream. | thomasmg wrote: | No, you should not open up the bugs. They show up because they | do an organic search, e.g. for apple products. Simply close | that source, then the bugs will disappear. | almost_usual wrote: | Need a segmented cache to keep out items only accessed once. | | Really this bowl needs 2Q instead of LRU. | rkagerer wrote: | KOHLER sh*tbowls are harder to implement but you can flush the | cache. | madamelic wrote: | I think you should add machine learning to v2. | | LRU is a decent algorithm but it would be much effective if | Shitbowl could learn my routines and re-organize as needed. | poxwole wrote: | You could probably get it funded | davidschw4rz wrote: | Very good idea, great potential for being the next unicorn! Be | sure to hire a growth hacker. /s | Nextgrid wrote: | As I mentioned in another comment, this product absolutely | needs some lights or a buzzer to drive "engagement" in case the | user doesn't "engage" with the bowl for more than a few hours. | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: | Since I can't get support from the company, I am posting to HN so | that someone from Shitbowl sees my post and responds. | | I recently got a Shitbowl and threw some coins in, planning to | use them soon. However, the coins ended up at the bottom of the | Shitbowl instead of the top. This is definitely a big since it | violates LRU. Shitbowl has not responded so far to my complaint. | prtk25 wrote: | What a time to be alive! | solanav wrote: | In-home physical cache... Such an smart observation! Love it! | [deleted] | rtkwe wrote: | Bug report: Item retrieval is not functionally pure and may have | side effects on the sorting of items in the bowl. | exabrial wrote: | High constant factor | Shared404 wrote: | Bug closed: User error. All items above the desired item must | be retrieved and replaced as one bundle. | | ---------------------------------------------- | | Was this helpful? Please rate my service! [ooooo] | oarsinsync wrote: | Tragically, with uMatrix installed and default configuration, no | images load, because external third party JS is needed just to | load an image. | | A parody that plays itself a little too well, sadly. | rhn_mk1 wrote: | Works for me, third party image host only. | elliottkember wrote: | Tip Top ice cream is a dead giveaway that this is a New Zealand | product. Also very good ice cream. | pokstad wrote: | I tried explaining this to my wife with my laundry pile and she | wouldn't buy it. | jedberg wrote: | The problem with the laundry pile LRU is the extreme bitrot of | the first items in. | aldanor wrote: | Laundry pile needs random access! | alpaca128 wrote: | I don't care about that as long as it efficiently handles the | worst-case of the sock tuple matching problem. | egypturnash wrote: | I just implemented a proper cache for unmatched socks this | morning! I just got a dresser and dedicated one drawer to | socks embedded in a plastic hexagon matrix, with an area on | one side for unmatched socks awaiting the re-appearance of | their mate on some future laundry day. | | It is a slow process but it is very low energy. | dajohnson89 wrote: | I used this to convince my gf to replace her hideous fake tree | decoration with a nice bowl for holding stuff instead. This | might be the most useful HN post for me ever. | imhoguy wrote: | Nah, not Internet connected and no mobile app to control it. | pca006132 wrote: | We should attach some IoT sensors and stream user behavior back | to our server, either forward the data to the vendor of your | item and let them provide some support[1], or do some machine | learning for credit assessment[2]. And this could be called | _the world 's first smart in-home physical caching device_. | | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26114194 | | [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26119312 | dna_polymerase wrote: | I see you took out the car keys. Drive to your closest Shell | now for a 2% fuel discount. | Nextgrid wrote: | Don't forget adding some blinking lights or beeps to drive | "engagement" in case the user doesn't engage with the bowl | for more than a couple hours. | Shared404 wrote: | Could we possibly use blockchain to track the state of each | item? | alex_young wrote: | Any advice on implementing HyperLogLog on this? I'd really like | to avoid map reduce if possible. | 1970-01-01 wrote: | I'm going to scale this with Rust and MongoDB. Do you have any | advice before we spend millions on a prototype? | rriepe wrote: | I really wish people wouldn't post stuff like this to HN. | | The last bowl bubble was devastating. In 2013 there were | literally bowls selling for millions of dollars[1]. My kids | didn't eat cereal that year. | | Please consider the consequences of your startups. It's "just a | landing page" one day but the next, you're _ruining lives_. | | [1] https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/20/business/sothebys-china- | bowl/... | hobofan wrote: | I sincerely hope that the reason you are being downvoted is | that people didn't read beyond the first sentence. | rriepe wrote: | The downvotes make it funnier! | edoceo wrote: | The heavy burden of the internet comedian. | _Microft wrote: | Rust is what distinguishes this competitor's product. I am not | sure how Shitbowl ensures ownership of stored items. | | https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/8d/c6/bb8dc61f7bc93b996c71... | tailspin2019 wrote: | To enable Sharding: throw your shitbowl against the wall. | | NB: Cached items will be need to be reindexed once sharding has | been enabled. | detaro wrote: | If you have a glass one you can even shard the bowl! | tailspin2019 wrote: | Um. Yeah. Thanks for explaining my joke :-) | detaro wrote: | whops ;) I read it as "spread the contents around widely" | == sharding at first | tailspin2019 wrote: | Equally valid. | chronolitus wrote: | The bowl flew right over this commenter's head | xwdv wrote: | I cache my shoes by leaving the ones I wear frequently by the | door ready to be put on. The ones I access less will go in the | closet and the ones used very infrequently will go to the storage | unit for glacial level storage. | leoc wrote: | Chamber pots. You've invented chamber pots. | khalilravanna wrote: | I'll wait for the mainstream IOT Shitbowl with Alexa support and | an iOS app that destroys my battery life by pinging a server to | give me notifications for new shit being added to the bowl. | MetalGuru wrote: | More like a shit stack | chronolitus wrote: | The idea is pretty good, but misses the mark. Bitcoin has shown | that decentralization is a bad idea. What people actually want is | Sharebowl: a single bowl, the size of oregon, that you can trust | to keep your valuables safe. | | We plan an ICO by 2022, IPO by 2023, and IBS[1] by next week. | | [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/irritable- | bow... | tailspin2019 wrote: | Bravo | tetha wrote: | > no backdoor access for federal agencies | | Tragically, I have to strongly doubt this is secure against the | almighty warrant-backdoor for physical security. And once they | have their hands on the bowl, the content is freely accessible. | xxpor wrote: | This implementation is O(n) on retrieval, rather than O(1) as in | the ideal case. Hopefully v2 will optimize that in the near | future. | gnfargbl wrote: | It is true that it is theoretically O(n) in the worst case, but | in my own production deployments I have tended to find a huge | skew towards selecting the most recently inserted couple of | items. Here the obvious ocular caching optimization leads to | O(1) time retrieval. | harlanji wrote: | That's right. This system has a high hit rate baked in, based | on matching the data structure to the real world usage with a | predictable set of content classes. Very elegant. | [deleted] | nicolashahn wrote: | I think the next version, Shitplate, should have this | improvement. Space complexity is worse, though. | ThePadawan wrote: | I am a competitor of Shitbowl, and my product ("Shitdrawer") | solves this issue! | schmorptron wrote: | However, while it's true that your product is O(1) even in | the worst case, when you look closer it's actually O(1) + | O(1) even in the best case, as you have to open the | Shitdrawer to even get the the most recently used item. Do | you have any solution to this? | sdenton4 wrote: | Shitfloor? | james_pm wrote: | My kids already invented that. If you want theirs, come | ask. Includes unlimited eye rolls and muttering. | drran wrote: | O(1)+O(1) is just O(11). Not a big problem. | ThePadawan wrote: | I would recommend not looking closer! | james_pm wrote: | Shitdrawer is the Amazon Glacier of Shitbowl. Easy to throw | stuff in, generally it stays there very long term. | zikzak wrote: | I used to love this product but after a few weeks it started | to only make the first 15% of the items available. You then | have to use elevated permissions to remove the cached items | directly behind these which sometimes results in damage to | the items or the operator. Please fix this or I'm going to | lower my rating. | sgtnoodle wrote: | Shitdrawer also has a more compelling security model, | although to be honest shitbowl is more convenient and most | people think firewalls are good enough whether or not they | have tons of easily opened ports. | chapium wrote: | O(1) implementation is trivial and implemented by most | teenagers bedroom floors. | sgtnoodle wrote: | It depends on how good the hash algorithm is. My 2 year old's | method tends to have a lot of collisions near the book shelf | and the play kitchen, and I'm starting to think it's | nondeterministic... | isoprophlex wrote: | But does it have a browser built in? Can I use it to tweet while | I search for my keys? | sitkack wrote: | I signed up for their beta, and have been using Shitbowl(r) for | about 6 months and the results have been amazing. I can't | recommend it enough. | the_arun wrote: | This looks like a stack to me instead of LRU Cache :). Am I | missing something? | FPGAhacker wrote: | Yes, you can retrieve items that aren't on the top. | [deleted] | theginger wrote: | Critical dos vulnerable. It cannot recover from being repeatedly | hit with a hammer | glitchc wrote: | Can only be operated in a high trust environment ---SMH--- | krylon wrote: | I think I was having a cultural impedance mismatch, I was | expecting something toilet-related. Now I am both relieved and | disappointed, so there goes my weekend. ;-P | _Microft wrote: | I heard some people prefer the decentralized approach but that it | might lead to consensus problems with their significant other. | tgtweak wrote: | Proof of relationship | sitzkrieg wrote: | tip top cant keep getting away with it | sanj wrote: | And people laugh when I refer to the drawer next to the stove as | an L1 cache! | hrishi wrote: | As always, a Bloom filter can improve search times. | JustARandomGuy wrote: | Well done. It took me a moment to understand the joke but then I | laughed hard. You should consider putting an actual store in | there, I'm sure some sales would convert. | secondcoming wrote: | If I put a Docker container in it will it scale seamlessly? | nicbou wrote: | You can use a bigger shitbowl instance, but at this point you | might just want to deploy a few of them on a shitshelf cluster. | However if you're hitting size limits with only two users, you | should tackle the root cause instead of throwing more hardware | at it. | TeMPOraL wrote: | The way it's designed, you want to ship a container of | shitbowls, not a shitbowl of shipping containers. | snissn wrote: | oh i thought this was going to be a lot grosser and ahhaha i'm | not even sure why i clicked | ericzawo wrote: | Why are we censoring the name? Is the implication children read | HN? | dijksterhuis wrote: | Some folks could be at work so might have been a good idea to | avoid swearwords on the front/submit page. | gpanders wrote: | But then it's right there in the URL, so I don't think this | actually solves anything | dijksterhuis wrote: | Whoever submitted it might just be trying to do a decent | and responsible thing (the URLs aren't filtered by HN). I'd | rather that than the whole front page filled with expletive | laden titles every day. | | Not the submitter through so this is all speculation and | conjecture and not particularly relevant to the joke | anyway. | jrochkind1 wrote: | Why is the HN article title obscured with "*"? Does HN have a | forbidden words policy? | egypturnash wrote: | It's especially hilarious because the same word is right there | in the URL. | zczc wrote: | "Kitsch is the absolute denial of shit, in both the literal and | the figurative senses of the word" -- Milan Kundera, _The | Unbearable Lightness of Being_ | yepthatsreality wrote: | Christians. You're on their time. | imglorp wrote: | "See, in our century, we've learned not to fear words." | TeMPOraL wrote: | That was the 20th century. In 21st, words are weapons. | imglorp wrote: | Is there another reference to this? My quote was Uhura on | ST-TOS "Savage Curtain", around 2200 AD(?). | TeMPOraL wrote: | Ouch. I missed the reference! | dragonwriter wrote: | Linguistic prudishness outside of specifically around | violations of the Second Commandment isn't particularly tied | to Christianity. | | As "shit" is not, even in the broadest Christian | interpretation, a name of the Christian God, that doesn't | seem to be the basis of any filtering of that word. | stonogo wrote: | Are we now pretending anyone pursues the concept of | 'profanity' or defines it as broadly as Puritanical | christians? Seems a weird fight to pick, but ok. | dragonwriter wrote: | > Are we now pretending anyone pursues the concept of | 'profanity' or defines it as broadly as Puritanical | christians? | | Literally Puritanical Christians don't exist anymore, | it's a defunct sect. Metaphorical puritanism in any sense | relevant here isn't restricted to Christians. | | And, yes, plenty of groups are at least as opposed to | profanity, and define it at least broadly, as any | Christian groups (certainly, I've noted Islamic groups | that that applies to.) Sure, in, say, the US if you run | into this its mostly likely to be from Christians, but | that's true of most things because the US is a majority- | Christian country. | fallingfrog wrote: | That was me.. I guess I was uncertain about whether it would | get flagged if I put a curse word in the title. No deeper | agenda there. | jrochkind1 wrote: | looks like it has been corrected! | [deleted] | bookmarkable wrote: | This kind of sarcastic social critique well designed site reminds | of better times for the Internet... before the dark times... | before Facebook. | andrewprock wrote: | On the flip side this is a real process that essentially works. | The book "Algorithms to Love By" decides a chapter to solutions | to meat space retrieval problems. | nemosaltat wrote: | I'm pretty sure you mean "Algorithms to _Live_ By"- but I | love the typo, since one anecdotes involves using | CS/mathematical principles (secretary problem) to find an | optimal romantic partner. Enjoyable read for sure! | chrisweekly wrote: | ATLB is such an awesome book. | andrewprock wrote: | Lol! That's what I get for using my phone :D | naiveai wrote: | Oh no! The Internet is more easily accessible providing more | knowledge and access to millions worldwide! It's not limited to | our extremely exclusive clique of 1337 hackers who also all | happen to be white, college-educated American men! | hkt wrote: | FWIW, I was one of the clique of 1337 hackers without being | American or college educated! | | In seriousness, the radicalism of the early internet was | great for autodidacts, and I loved it. It shaped me as a | person and I still don't have or need a university degree. | | The thing that was nice in the past was that it seemed so | easy to find other people finding their own path. It was a | bit less commercial and a bit more communal. It was a great | thing, but communities have a finite capacity for on boarding | people. It is easy to squash that, and it was definitely | squashed pretty hard as the internet popularised. | mrzool wrote: | You could have, you know, all that good stuff also without | Facebook. | roughly wrote: | arguably more easily, since a primary outcome of facebook | seems to be to make white college educated american men | angry at everyone else | RGamma wrote: | Well with its relentless commercialisation it also brought in | loads of trash tier entertainment, splintered attention, | intense bubblification and collective amnesia for a | significant part of its userbase. | | All the potential for good that made users so enthusiastic | (as we now know: over-enthusiastic) about it until the early | 00s (maybe 10s) still exist, it's just big tech and other | businesses have hijacked the community-driven governance and | narrative for private gains. | | All the cool ((internet) cultural, but not necessarily | technical) stuff that existed and exists... you'd never find | out about it today if you weren't there and already know what | to look for (and even then search result quality has gone | down the drain due to massive spam. Not that you can | reasonably filter search results to not include businesses or | other SEO spam for instance...). Of course things that don't | make money/grab attention eventually are "rationalised away" | or forgotten about in this ungodly screaming contest. | | Not all is bad; it's just the drop in average quality of | substance and intransparency of its gatekeepers that worries | me. I always keep my hope that a diverse array of communities | continue to exist in which cool things happen on a regular | basis. Mainstream social media is not this place though. | alex_young wrote: | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September | forgotmypw17 wrote: | you may like my site then :) | bravoetch wrote: | Those ice-cream containers are used in every NZ garage. As | someone that used to work at Tip-top, I approve of this | container-based approach. | mrtweetyhack wrote: | Just Shit | aarondf wrote: | Why is this a product? I could implement this myself in a weekend | with a few open source libraries. | zikzak wrote: | We built this years ago in Clay. | qwantim1 wrote: | I use junk drawers, which scale to available drawers, after | which you buy more storage or a larger house. | nicbou wrote: | https://xkcd.com/1737/ | arcticbull wrote: | Personally, I farm to work out to the cloud. | | I simply purchase whatever I need, have it delivered to an | Amazon locker nearby, and then when I'm done with it I throw | it out and order a new one. | | The most frequently used ones are always at the locker and | the least frequently used one is automatically returned for a | refund. The cache miss is approximately two days. | | It's expensive, but you can't beat the fact that it scales to | a practically unlimited degree. | | I call it "bowl-less" caching. | forty wrote: | "bowl-less" would never work in France. It translates in | French to "pas de bol" which also means "bad luck". | ARandomerDude wrote: | Still better than bowel-less, a possible misspelling | given the context. | ggghhhfff wrote: | I've heard about the bowl-less design pattern a few weeks | ago, excited to hear that it pans out in real world | scenarios! | ftio wrote: | Ah yes, the old _horizontal scaling_ technique. | rexreed wrote: | This is clearly a parody. The tip-off is the bit about WeWork | and Uber. If you don't understand the joke, then the joke's on | you. | [deleted] | fisherjeff wrote: | > If you don't understand the joke, then the joke's on you. | | Completely agree | ggghhhfff wrote: | Parent is joking with the meme of "but I could build this | produc myself with open source libraries!" | raunakdag wrote: | Parent is joking with the meme of " If you don't understand | the joke, then the joke's on you." | | ;) | Black101 wrote: | I'm not sure who is kidding... you or the parent comment. | rexreed wrote: | That's part of the circular nature of the parody. Maybe I'm | an investor and this will be the next "Yo" app. | SavageBeast wrote: | Looks like a nice prototype. In the real world Id like to see | some basic provisions for type safety though. | | If the last thing used was a half drank rocks glass of tequila | the integrity of the entire cache will be threatened. | | * they all sound like "stupid problems" till your boss is calling | at 3AM because the system is down. | qwantim1 wrote: | If your boss is in your house using your shitbowl. | twic wrote: | If your boss is in your house _at 3 AM putting a half drank | rocks glass of tequila in_ your shitbowl. | slim wrote: | your boss sleeps with you | SavageBeast wrote: | You're obviously a Straight Shooter, With Upper Management | Written All Over You! | ftio wrote: | /* The PM says this 100% will never happen. */ | tdy721 wrote: | I've been calling them squirrel spots. | doodlebugging wrote: | My personal solution is so much more simple than this shitbowl | solution and is trivial to implement. I have been using it for | years and can personally vouch for it's effectiveness and | scalability. | | Skip the bowl entirely. | | When you finish with something just set it down. It really DOES | NOT MATTER WHERE! Honestly. | | Set it on a flat surface, under a chair or a pillow, in a | depression in your yard. Set it on your neighbor's side of the | fence. It is totally irrelevant where you leave it. | | Since it is universally true that you always find something in | the last place that you look this method that I have employed | works perfectly EVERY SINGLE TIME and for objects of any physical | description. | | It is impossible to lose something if you are willing to spend | sufficient time and effort remembering where you put it and | revisiting that location. | dreamcompiler wrote: | I'm working on a quantum version of this. Items placed in the | bowl may randomly disappear then reappear in a different quantum | bowl somewhere else in the universe. | | We have already seeded the market with test prototypes shaped | like laundry baskets that are limited to small pieces of cloth | footwear. But we hope to scale up to Level 5 Flinging of Massive | Objects (FOMO) before the end of the year. | joezydeco wrote: | All Shitbowls possess this feature, it's involved by a simple | formula of | | _(age in bowl x proximity to bottom x urgency of real-time | need)_ | | Some items such as padlock keys, unused postage stamps, and | nearly expired gift cards will override and invoke a quantum | certainty of 1.0 when they are trying to be located. | dvtrn wrote: | I hate to break this to you, but they've beaten you to the | quantum bowl: I think it was patented some years ago as the | "latrine". It has the same properties you describe, similar | properties to the OP's "shitbowl" concept, and can quickly | deploy artifacts in one button push*. | | (Unless your artifact volume exceeds the recommended capacity | in the readme, also helps to make sure the pipeline has | sufficient capacity for large deploys to efficiently release to | the municipal cloud) | moron4hire wrote: | I don't see what's wrong with continuing to use shitfloor. It's | worked well for me for years. I know some people complain about | breaking their things or sharp pain in their feet (aka Plantar | Harming Poop) when they step on them, but I've learned to be | careful about that. And I don't have any friends anyway, so I | never have to worry about someone coming over who hasn't learned | to live with shitfloor. | exabrial wrote: | Doesn't support Node or JSON. This is stupid. | dmje wrote: | That requires ShitStack | 867-5309 wrote: | if you're going to name it that, surely you'd have to flush the | cache after every input | tarr11 wrote: | The LRU cache is flawed as it never discards items and will | eventually overflow. | [deleted] | wffurr wrote: | The bowl cache is garbage collected with a stop the world | collection step wherein the bowl is upended and the contents | returned, the bottom cleaned, and a few select items pre-seeded | in the fresh cache. | phs wrote: | Overflow actually spills off the top. It's MRU! | sgtnoodle wrote: | Yeah, but it spills off onto the table top, which is | effectively register space. | troymc wrote: | If you put the s**bowl on top of an old cash register, it | overflows into an actual register. | s314159265358 wrote: | This is a joke right? ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-02-13 23:00 UTC)