[HN Gopher] Federal Charges Against Stanford University Research...
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       Federal Charges Against Stanford University Researcher Expanded
        
       Author : Raymondfx
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2021-02-19 21:10 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.justice.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.justice.gov)
        
       | Raymondfx wrote:
       | Grand Jury Adds Obstruction, Alteration of Records, and False
       | Statements to Visa Fraud Charges Against Visiting Researcher
       | Alleged to Be Member of China's People's Liberation Army
        
       | throwawaysea wrote:
       | How widespread are cases like this? I'm not an expert on this
       | topic but from reading this it feels like such an investigation
       | is expensive and time consuming. I imagine for every person
       | identified there must be many more whose secret affiliations with
       | the foreign powers won't be uncovered.
        
         | iscrewyou wrote:
         | On the other hand, I also wonder how easy it is to connect her,
         | ways of doing things, contacting other people, to other secret
         | entities. And they can even watch anyone who was spooked after
         | the news and anyone who went silent. Because detection works
         | both ways.
         | 
         | I recently read somewhere that secret angencies likely watch
         | suspects and see when they turn off their phones or when they
         | turn them back on for example when they have a meeting. This is
         | a good way to narrow in on other people connected to the
         | suspect by watching their patterns.
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | Was she out of her mind keeping this kind of stuff? Can't believe
       | the stupidity.
        
       | crb002 wrote:
       | Seems a bit racist. Israel/Finland/Germany all have universal
       | conscription so they don't get harassed like the Chinese.
        
         | TavsiE9s wrote:
         | Germany actually halted military service a couple of years ago.
         | There are talks of reintroducing a more universal service but
         | so far that has not happened.
        
         | finiteseries wrote:
         | The relationship between the United States and Israeli,
         | Finnish, and German militaries is slightly different to the one
         | with the Chinese.
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | As I understand it, the issue is the false claims in the visa
         | application more than the military service. If they'd known she
         | was an (apparently) active member of the Chinese military, she
         | wouldn't have gotten the visa in the first place. In her visa
         | application she admitted to prior military service and still
         | received the visa so military service itself is not a
         | fundamental blocker for Chinese visa applicants.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | This is one reason why US visa application forms include a
           | question which basically asks "Are you a spy?". Which might
           | seem silly because obviously a real spy would never answer
           | yes. But the real point of the question is that if the
           | government finds later that someone lied on the form it
           | becomes easier to charge them with a crime or deport them.
        
       | kevinventullo wrote:
       | _The superseding indictment alleges that she then attempted to
       | delete a digital folder of documents on an external hard drive
       | that she possessed containing records relating to her military
       | service and visa fraud, including:_
       | 
       |  _- A digital version of a letter from Song, written in Chinese
       | and addressed to the People's Republic of China consulate in New
       | York, in which Song explained that her stated employer, "Beijing
       | Xi Diaoyutai Hospital" was a false front, and that because
       | relevant approval documents were classified, she had attempted to
       | mail them;_
       | 
       |  _- An image of Song's PLA credentials, with a photograph of her
       | in military dress uniform, covering the time period from July
       | 2016 to July 2020; and_
       | 
       |  _- A digital version of a resume for Song, written in Chinese,
       | again with a photograph of her in military dress uniform and
       | listing her employer as the Air Force General Hospital._
       | 
       | Yikes, that sounds pretty damning. I'm not an expert in digital
       | forensics but I wonder why she wouldn't destroy the hard drive
       | after. Or is that not enough?
        
         | lopatin wrote:
         | Follow up question, as someone who knows even less about
         | forensics, what kind of traces stay on a hard drive if you just
         | delete a file?
        
           | aliceryhl wrote:
           | Generally when you just delete a file, its contents are
           | marked as "unused", but not actually erased. This is why
           | deleting a large file takes the same time as deleting a small
           | file. Then, whenever a new file is created, it might be put
           | (partially) on top of the old file, overwriting the old
           | contents for good.
        
           | bsamuels wrote:
           | the whole file is still there until it gets overwritten by
           | new data
        
           | bsder wrote:
           | A lot.
           | 
           | You need to write a drive with zeros(minimum)/random
           | data(preferably) at least once to make forensic recovery
           | difficult. I know all about the "5 times" rule, but I've
           | _never_ heard of anyone recovering a drive after even a
           | single overwrite.
           | 
           | Personally, I just hammer a screwdriver through the platter.
           | It generally converts it into glass shards--the drive sounds
           | like a maraca afterward.
           | 
           | Flash, of course, is different. I suspect that writing
           | zeros/random once is probably enough. However, I tend to just
           | use diagonal cutters and slice through the chips.
           | 
           | If someone wants to reconstruct my drive after I've
           | physically destroyed it, they've probably got enough money to
           | just fabricate the evidence against me anyway.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | > Flash, of course, is different. I suspect that writing
             | zeros/random once is probably enough.
             | 
             | SSDs won't necessarily actually erase a block when you tell
             | them to, due to wear-leveling and weird internal RAID
             | setups they could be doing anything in there.
        
             | desine wrote:
             | I have a few HDs with bullet holes in them, and the
             | platters are still intact. I've messed around with a lot of
             | drives and never shattered a disk like glass. I've heard
             | that there's labs that specialize in reading disks without
             | even needing to spin them, but information seems to be
             | tightly guarded about the processes.
        
               | daniel_reetz wrote:
               | The platters I've seen are aluminum alloy.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_remanence
           | 
           | That link has a bit more, but the main issue is what the
           | others wrote. Deleting a file from your disk may not actually
           | _delete_ it. It can leave an entry in the file system that
           | marks it as deleted (for undeletion later) or it may just
           | remove the entry, in which case the data is still on the disk
           | and recoverable.
        
           | Sylamore wrote:
           | On most file systems, just deleting a file simply deletes the
           | link between the filename and the data on disk, the actual
           | data remains fully intact until the blocks are overwritten by
           | new data. It's trivial to recover recently deleted files, and
           | often not much more effort to recover less recently deleted
           | files. It only becomes a challenge if the data has been long
           | deleted or was intentionally overwritten before deletion (or
           | the disk wiped using random data), in some cases becoming
           | effectively impossible to recover.
        
           | desine wrote:
           | The file is still there. A regular delete just tells the disk
           | that the segments of memory are available to be overwritten.
           | Zeroing out (or /dev/urandom) the memory is an option, but
           | even that is not 100% safe, especially when it comes to
           | forensic labs with the ability to read and analyze platters
           | removed from a complete, sealed disk. Really safe deleters
           | will overwrite the segments of memory multiple times to
           | scramble magnetic signatures
        
             | noir_lord wrote:
             | The world has moved on.
             | 
             | You can't transplant a platter into another reader, the old
             | days of Guttman method don't really apply anymore, density
             | is so high that outside of research settings it's just not
             | practical.
             | 
             | That said I still put a drill through mine before disposing
             | of them, because close to zero isn't zero.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | > but even that is not 100% safe, especially when it comes
             | to forensic labs with the ability to read and analyze
             | platters removed from a complete, sealed disk.
             | 
             | No, this is completely impossible and noone has ever done
             | it. (An exception would be HDDs with bad block mapping
             | because they might not actually erase some sector.)
             | 
             | SSDs don't even have platters and you could probably
             | recover things from the flash, but you can avoid this with
             | disk encryption by simply losing the keys.
             | 
             | > Really safe deleters will overwrite the segments of
             | memory multiple times to scramble magnetic signatures
             | 
             | Deletion programs do this because it looks cool. It's not
             | necessary - literally noone has ever recovered anything
             | from a zeroed out HD sector.
        
               | desine wrote:
               | >No, this is completely impossible and noone has ever
               | done it.
               | 
               | Pedantic devil's advocate - nobody has claimed to do it.
               | When dealing with international espionage and possibly
               | the DoD or DHS examining the drive, I wouldn't bet on
               | that assumption.
        
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       (page generated 2021-02-19 23:00 UTC)