[HN Gopher] Feedback Welcome: I am developing an e-paper calenda...
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Feedback Welcome: I am developing an e-paper calendar as a consumer
product
Author : konschubert
Score : 40 points
Date : 2021-02-21 19:33 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.invisible-computers.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.invisible-computers.com)
| bombcar wrote:
| It needs to support Office 365 or some sort of connector.
| konschubert wrote:
| Yea, for sure, that's something I'd like to have as well!
| nde wrote:
| Really cool idea! Style aside, I think you've developed an
| interesting product with lots of appeal, especially for those
| looking to be "less" connected.
|
| For those complaining about the style, perhaps offering a DIY kit
| may be a viable alternative that allows anyone to add their own
| flair.
| diego_moita wrote:
| Since you're announcing it at an heavy traffic like HN it is
| quite likely there are already 200 companies in ShenZhen reading
| your post and and planning to sell it for one tenth of what
| you're asking.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| While Chinese can copy it easily the eInk display will kinda
| guarantee that even half the price would be pushing it.
|
| In any case they don't need to even preemptively copy it once
| you order it from a Chinese OEM they'll use the money you paid
| them to make a few 1000's units more for themselves and have
| them on Aliexpress before you even get the first batch shipped.
| DangerousPie wrote:
| I really like this idea, but I agree with others that the bezels
| look a bit too large (do you need them to hide the components?)
| and the price seems relatively high.
|
| I also thought that the calendar looked a bit grey/dull in the
| image you show. Is this just about the lighting or is the display
| not very high-contrast?
| konschubert wrote:
| > do you need them to hide the components?
|
| Yes for now. Though I might get them down in size as I iterate
| on the hardware...
|
| > Is this just about the lighting or is the display not very
| high-contrast?
|
| To be honest I'd say it's both.
| briefcomment wrote:
| Darker or bolder lines and text would be nice I think.
|
| It would be interesting if you put a little red LED on it like a
| soft alarm for upcoming events.
|
| I would pay $35 for this, buy I'm sure others would pay more.
|
| Edit: Saw the 200 euro price tag, don't think I'm in the market
| for this at that price.
| konschubert wrote:
| Thank you for your feedback, especially regarding the price.
| omidh28 wrote:
| With this price, Just buy a tablet and mount it.
| danimal88 wrote:
| I'd go for a much smaller bezel/frame.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| You want some feedback? Here is some: it's too expensive. 200EUR
| for a display-only calendar? Thanks, I'll pass.
| sxp wrote:
| Can you post some specs about the size of the display in inches &
| pixels? And does it run an open OS?
|
| I recently bought an M5Paper which is a 960X540, 4.7" ESP32 e-ink
| display for $70. So that provides a baseline for your hardware.
| okl wrote:
| That price was at quantity '1' though, right?
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Yes but even at 10K you'll be looking at $50 per unit at
| best.
|
| eInk displays are expensive as fuck thanks to patents.
| daniel_iversen wrote:
| I think your product is a great idea, good luck! Only feedback,
| as others have said, the frame isn't quite my style, maybe a non-
| wood or a thinner frame would be nice. And personally I'd like to
| have the option to not have Saturday and Sunday on there (since
| I'm imagining using this at my work desk) and the font size maybe
| a little bigger/bolder for legibility.
| konschubert wrote:
| I can say that I fully agree on the "remove the weekend"
| option. It's definitely on the list.
| iamben wrote:
| I love these kind of projects. But what I'd like is slightly
| bigger than kindle e-ink display that shows a webpage of my
| choice. And I'd like it to run off mains power.
|
| Then I can pretty much show what I want - so it's easy to set up
| a rotating dashboard with the weather, my calendar, TFL alerts,
| whatever.
|
| Why doesn't this exist?!
| dominotw wrote:
| can you open that webpage in 10 in or 13 inch eink devices ?
| Plenty of them out there. I even watch youtube videos on mine.
| twarge wrote:
| It would be useful to show a list of the day's next events and
| to-do's. Is iCloud sync even possible?
| konschubert wrote:
| > Is iCloud sync even possible?
|
| There are ways to make it work but it's not yet the way I'd
| like it to be.
| carbon85 wrote:
| The frame fit and finish is not adequate, hire someone who is
| able to cut and assemble frame miters that do not have gaps.
| Offer a three wood options, Maple (light) Oak (Medium) and Walnut
| (dark).
| konschubert wrote:
| Hi HN!
|
| I am trying to develop an e-paper smart display as a consumer
| product. The first available layout will be a calendar.
|
| I'd love to have HN's input on this: Do you think it's viable?
| Does it look okay?
|
| What would be a good selling price?
| catchmeifyoucan wrote:
| 200 euros is a lot. I own a remarkable tablet, and it can do a
| lot more with a bigger screen
|
| I wouldn't be interested in spending that much since I can't
| really do much other than look at my calendar.
|
| I'm either on the move, or in front of a computer, so I don't
| see if there's a good fit for this device in my life
| konschubert wrote:
| I totally see your point of view regarding the price. What
| price would you say is right?
|
| > I'm either on the move, or in front of a computer, so I
| don't see if there's a good fit for this device in my life
|
| It's possible that the device isn't for you then, I agree.
| nickweb wrote:
| The price point will be a sticking point for consumers. I
| understanding the pro's of this style of device with an e ink
| screen, and the associated power savings and readability it
| comes with, but the general public may not. This could be
| better positioned towards an office environment but it would
| possibly be too small to be useful to a team.
|
| I love the idea and the design, and I hope it works for you,
| but I think it's going to be a hard sell ahead for you at that
| price point.
| konschubert wrote:
| What price point would work better in your opinion?
| kybernetikos wrote:
| I know someone who needs this.
|
| The price seems high, but it might work as a christmas/birthday
| present, and probably wouldn't ultimately stop it from being
| purchased in this case.
|
| It would be replacing a paper calendar that shows 3 months
| ahead. A nice feature would be to be able to move between views
| of today, this week, 3 months. Much bigger would be nice too.
| Again not having these would not stop a purchase.
|
| The wood bezel is pretty big.
|
| Most likely to stop a purchase is the ugly wire hanging from
| it. If it didn't need charging often, then having it have a
| powerbank (swappable?) in it would be better from my point of
| view, although how often it needs to charge would be a factor.
|
| There was a beautiful concept epaper calendar I saw a while
| back,
| https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/3/22/15028600/m...
| but I don't think it ever made it to sale, and if it had, it
| would have been frighteningly expensive, but that is what I
| would really like...
| konschubert wrote:
| That concept you're linking is what inspired me :)
|
| > It would be replacing a paper calendar that shows 3 months
| ahead. A nice feature would be to be able to move between
| views of today, this week, 3 months.
|
| I agree.
|
| > Much bigger would be nice too.
|
| Totally.
| okl wrote:
| Hi there, I have a few recommendation:
|
| - Add an indication of the current time and date.
|
| - Add a hidden button/switch to change between weekly/monthly
| calendar layout.
|
| - Show a small popup with the pertinent information of the next
| appointment. (Location &c.)
|
| - Where do you show entries that are scheduled for the entire
| day? It would be nice to display them in an area that is
| separate from the regular entries.
|
| - Add a button/switch to flip through the next few weeks.
|
| Good luck with your project, I can surely see a market for the
| e-paper calendar.
| konschubert wrote:
| Hi, thanks for your comment. Those are good ideas.
| tpetry wrote:
| Something which is really missing is wifi support and the
| ability to pull a custom image to display from somewhere. You
| could then easily display status dashboards, calendars,
| whatever someone likes.
|
| If you have a library for easily building these screens this
| could be really interesting.
|
| I have seen this idea at the joan board, but they are really
| expensive (attaching an ipad to the wall is cheaper) and i cant
| find this feature anymore. I guess it was hidden at some
| screenshot and small text somewhere.
| xiaolingxiao wrote:
| It's an awesome idea. The color the epaper might go better with
| stainless steel, or even glass. But as it stands the
| gray/black/brown combo looks a bit like an Ugly Tie, it could
| work in the right room/wall, but may need some thinking on the
| end of the buyer.
| anotheryou wrote:
| I might not be your market but I'd want:
|
| - a tiny version
|
| - with little bezel
|
| - at most 35eur
|
| - showing just todays upcoming agenda.
|
| - Maybe some bold and inverted display of soon to begin events.
|
| Than again... I could dock my phone, keep the screen on and show
| some calendar app, but I don't either.
|
| Maybe I should :), would be possible with tasker, rfid and a
| dock.
| maartn wrote:
| It's too officy, have a look at this one for inspiration:
| https://www.instructables.com/E-Ink-Family-Calendar-Using-ES...
| _Microft wrote:
| Have you considered customizability of some sort?
|
| E.g. allowing people to extend your product, by software or by
| providing necessary information to easily create 3D printed
| mounts or alternate frames. Give the users a place to exchange
| and host their solutions and your calendar could be a
| presentation platform that others create for without requiring
| you to do the work yourself.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| The frame size to screen feels unbalanced to me. I would reduce
| the frame width and consider using a solid CNC'ed price of wood
| instead of using picture frame construction. Unless you can get
| those seams very tight, it looks a little cheap (which your price
| point isnt).
| konschubert wrote:
| Yea, fair point!
|
| Interesting idea with the CNC'd wood - I'll look into that for
| sure!
| dsr_ wrote:
| The frame overshadows the display. You might:
|
| - reduce the size of the frame
|
| - mount the display flush to the front of the frame
|
| The contrast in the photo does not look great. Perhaps use
| hatching or shading instead of the solid black areas? In any
| case, you'll want to be able to separate out different calendars.
|
| Other display modes? "Today", "Clock/Calendar", "Now and Next"?
|
| How do you control it?
| konschubert wrote:
| Thank you for the feedback.
|
| You're right, the display is smaller than I'd like... for sure.
|
| I'll also see what can be done on a black-and white display
| with regards to the stark contrast.
|
| > Other display modes? "Today", "Clock/Calendar", "Now and
| Next"?
|
| Yes, that's do-able, I "just" have to code it.
|
| > How do you control it?
|
| In the App. I should make that clearer on the website for sure.
| m4lvin wrote:
| > In the App. I should make that clearer on the website for
| sure.
|
| I would only want this if I can use it without yet another
| app. Please consider using a simple web interface etc.
| mark-r wrote:
| I think the idea is the display comes directly from Google
| calendar and you don't have much control over it.
| konschubert wrote:
| Nope, it just gets the events from gcal. The layout is
| whatever I make it.
| cweagans wrote:
| IMO, the bezel is way way way too big for how much screen space
| there is. Instead of red oak, I'd suggest looking at walnut or
| cherry -- something with more color and a little less texture
| might help the screen to take focus. You could also look at
| separating the screen from the bezel with some kind of mat board
| or something (another commenter linked to an instructable that
| did this).
|
| I'm also not super clear on the the exact use case for this. Have
| you considered making it more of a portrait orientation, making
| it a single day view, and maybe adding some additional
| information (maybe some todos from Todoist or something?)
| konschubert wrote:
| The wood is actually beech, though this particular batch I got
| for the prototypes had a surprising amount of texture. I am
| planning to use lighter colors in future.
|
| Regarding your second point: I'd love to support a multitude of
| layout options some day.
| hertzrat wrote:
| Wall calendars don't have room for enough information. A weekly
| view would be nice. I would like a thinner frame and larger
| screen for readability. I might worry about the inconvenience of
| powering it or of entering/editing information. For the price
| point, a fancier build quality would help with the "premium" feel
| you probably would need: it would need to stand as a practical
| art piece
| konschubert wrote:
| Good feedback, thank you.
| throwaway69123 wrote:
| Bigger screens are better.
| mark-r wrote:
| Too expensive for the utility it provides. A Raspberry Pi with a
| simple LCD could do the job for half the price. An old obsolete
| phone would work too.
| zackbloom wrote:
| I believe one reason people are responding negatively to the
| frame is there is insufficient padding around the content before
| the frame begins. I know it would be painful to not use all the
| screen real estate, but I think there needs to be some spacing.
| Alternatively you could surround the screen with some sort of
| matting before the frame begins.
| konschubert wrote:
| Good idea. Also the matting.
|
| But I think people are right: The frame is quite big. I'd love
| to get the size down.
| cointreau wrote:
| I actually like the heavy frame, although I see why some might
| find it a bit heavy, given that the apparent goal of most screen
| designers is to eliminate the bezel entirely.
|
| My biggest sticking point here is price. 200 euros is a no-go;
| given the limited nature of the device, I wouldn't even consider
| 100. 50 is the absolute max I'd pay for something like this.
|
| It's a very nice product, and your target audience might very
| well be people who can afford an expensive desk object. I don't
| think most of the folks I know could pay that, though.
| konschubert wrote:
| Thank you for the feedback. Getting the price down is
| definitely one of my priorities.
| creativenolo wrote:
| Thin white frame with a white mounting could feel more
| aesthetically balanced.
| m4lvin wrote:
| You will have to compete with much cheaper ideas like this
| kindle-based dashboard https://github.com/pascalw/kindle-dash
|
| discussed a while ago here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25939042
| nom wrote:
| Others will comment on the product itself, and because it looks
| like you're trying to feel out the market, my questions are:
|
| Do you have experience developing, certifying and shipping
| consumer hardware? In what countries do you want to sell it? Who
| builds the hardware? How big is your first run?
| konschubert wrote:
| Hehe, those are really important questions you're asking.
|
| I'm looking at the EU and the US market. I know I need to get
| CE and RoHS and a bunch of other certificates. I know this
| won't be easy.
|
| If you know somebody who has experience with that, ideally in a
| boutique/startup environment, I'd love to hear the advice they
| have to give.
| iamleppert wrote:
| The wood bezel is kind of ugly & cheap looking. The audience for
| this is likely to be tech people and users who want to show off
| their calendar or manage their time with calendar invites. I
| think this could do well with a more contemporary frame. You
| could market it to people as a solution to forgetting meetings;
| the price would have to be low enough (sub $100) to trigger
| people's impulse buying. The lower the price the more likely you
| will be to get a sale.
|
| Do a test on Facebook with different price points and see which
| one produces better conversions: you don't need to actually have
| the product available to buy yet. This product is mostly going to
| live or die based on the marketing & pricing.
| konschubert wrote:
| I actually like the wood as material per se, but I still want
| to improve a bit on the processing.
|
| I'd love to lower the price, too. I don't know yet if it's
| possible.
| _Microft wrote:
| Besides the bezel being wide compared to the actual screen,
| there is nothing else wrong with it, in my opinion.
| jitl wrote:
| There's no accounting for taste. I'd prefer a wood frame to
| some kind of LED emissive plastic or metal
| jlengrand wrote:
| Interesting! I've done something _very roughly_ similar over the
| past weeks
| (https://twitter.com/jlengrand/status/1362319916649578499). I
| would go and say that putting calendar only is probably too
| static info as displayed on the website (it'll change only once a
| day).
|
| My setup cost about 80$ total so I guess the pricing is not wild.
| I do really like the cool effect of epaper personally, much more
| than the typical 'use a tablet as dashboard' that has a
| backlight. Good job!
| jlengrand wrote:
| Oh and funnily enough when I showed that on Twitter people
| asked for exactly what you did so you might be up to something,
| though I wonder if displayed like you do now the resolution
| will be high enough
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