[HN Gopher] L.A. startup is building tiny injectable robots to a...
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       L.A. startup is building tiny injectable robots to attack tumors
        
       Author : thereare5lights
       Score  : 104 points
       Date   : 2021-03-05 09:54 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.latimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.latimes.com)
        
       | endisneigh wrote:
       | If the robots are small enough isn't this just going back to
       | pharmacology? What's the difference between a sufficiently tiny
       | robot and a protein?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote:
         | Control, as discussed in the article. You have to distribute a
         | protein via diffusion through the blood. You can't drive it to
         | the site of a tumor. Also, the robots are not that small.
        
           | Grustaf wrote:
           | It would be cool if you had magnetic proteins that you could
           | steer. Or at least magnetically control the release of the
           | medicine.
        
       | mnemotronic wrote:
       | And the globalist conspiracy theory websites go crazy...
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | I've been approaching this wrong, is that a profitable
         | audience? It seems like a fairly easy funnel since almost
         | everyone is susceptible.
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.is/QzHCi
        
       | Grustaf wrote:
       | These are quite large though, why wouldn't it work with say a
       | long needle instead? I was imagining these robots to be small as
       | cells!
        
       | iamben wrote:
       | Robots really seems the wrong word here, after reading about the
       | magnets. Especially with the whole anti-vaxxers "Bill Gates is
       | injecting nanobots in my Covid vaccine" rubbish that's
       | perpetually doing the rounds on social media of late.
       | 
       | Edit: it's very cool though!
        
       | jvanderbot wrote:
       | I recall seeing early trials on horse / pigs cadavers at a
       | robotics conf. The robot is actuated / steered externally using a
       | closed-loop MRI imager and magnetic field steering. So, the
       | "robot" isn't exactly miniature if you count all that. Just the
       | end effector, which is a small blob of metal and plasticy stuff.
       | Still, really cool.
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | Sounds a bit like a magnetic mixer you see in a lab.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | I'm surprised you can't get them for the kitchen. I guess the
           | torque is probably crap, but still.
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | Yup. Anything bigger than 500mL or anything more vicious
             | than a water solution gets an overhead stirred in the lab.
             | 
             | Magnetic stirrers are great for small scale or even larger
             | scale if it's just mixing water with acid (for example),
             | but they stop working well after that.
        
             | djrogers wrote:
             | You can - look for a hot chocolate mixing mug or magnetic
             | mixing mug on {large retail site}. Gave my son one for
             | Christmas a few years ago cuz he's a nerd like me and
             | adores hot chocolate. He loves the thing!
        
               | pengaru wrote:
               | Is that the same as a frother? I've seen a streamer use
               | one on-stream a few times for making frothed chai tea,
               | and it uses a magnetic coupler...
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | Yeah, I think most "solutions" in the kitchen are far too
             | concentrated. I wouldn't expect a stirring bar to do much
             | for stirring dough or any but the thinnest batters.
        
             | burmer wrote:
             | Homebrewers use them, for yeast culturing or making
             | starters. I guess that's fairly lab-like, but they do it in
             | kitchens.
        
             | tomjakubowski wrote:
             | https://www.amazon.com/Lab-
             | Stirrers/b?ie=UTF8&node=318023011
        
       | bredren wrote:
       | I've had this vision of a set of tiny robots that live in your
       | stomach and perform some amount of pre-processing of the foods
       | you eat.
       | 
       | They would do things like cut food into smaller pieces using
       | small crab-like arms, digest and render inert sugars that are
       | well beyond what your body needs and detect if you've eaten
       | something that is rotten.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | _" digest and render inert sugars that are well beyond what
         | your body needs"_
         | 
         | I wonder what the ethical discussion for that looks like,
         | though I guess we already have Orlistat to flush out ingested
         | fat.
        
           | bredren wrote:
           | It sure doesn't reflect well on self-restraint.
           | 
           | One way to look at it is as taking the conveniences that
           | promote "quality of life" further along the path toward some
           | yet-to-be-determined limit.
           | 
           | If people could eat and not only worry less about the
           | consequences, but also experience less of the consequences
           | the majority would.
           | 
           | That said, these "stombots" wouldn't only be for people who
           | want to eat double-ice cream sundays occasionally.
           | 
           | If enough sugars could be broken down in the stomach--before
           | they enter the blood stream, it could help manage type 2
           | diabetes upstream.
        
         | InitialLastName wrote:
         | I'm not sure that "Our digestive systems are too inefficient"
         | is the most important health problem to solve. If anything, in
         | general our digestive systems appear to be _too_ efficient to
         | optimize the health outcomes of diets in the developed world.
        
           | MisterBastahrd wrote:
           | Our digestive systems? They suck.
           | 
           | Part of the problem of our intelligence is that we adapted
           | our environments to us instead of the other way around. Cats
           | can eat an all-meat diet. Dogs can do fine on rice and meat.
           | 
           | Why?
           | 
           | It's because their bodies produce the vitamins they need to
           | survive. We created agriculture and had such rich diets that
           | when we lost our ability to create certain vitamins in our
           | own bodies, we never even noticed. The genes are still there,
           | they're just broken.
           | 
           | "Fixing" that issue would be one of the greatest feats in the
           | history of humanity. If mankind ever wants to leave this rock
           | and colonize other worlds, they better figure out how to fix
           | that problem. Would suck to have a starship travelling for
           | hundreds of years only to land on a planet suitable for
           | colonization and realize you ran out of Vitamin C so everyone
           | is going to die of scurvy.
        
             | wbc wrote:
             | Are you saying agriculture cause humans to lose the ability
             | to create vitamins (specifically C)? I don't think that is
             | true, at least according to Nature:
             | 
             | https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/the-mystery-of-
             | vit...
             | 
             | The article posits the loss of Vitamin C to be much
             | earlier:
             | 
             | Notably, not only all humans, but also gorillas, chimps,
             | orangutans, and some monkeys have this inborn genetic flaw,
             | meaning that the loss of vitamin C biosynthesis must have
             | occurred first in one of our primate ancestors.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | Guinea pigs also lost the ability to manufacture Vitamin C;
             | it's hard to blame that on their development of
             | agriculture.
             | 
             | It's also not necessary to eat a rich diet to maintain
             | levels of Vitamin C. Everything alive contains it. (Even
             | the guinea pigs.) The things that suppress it are probably
             | things you would associate with "rich food", like cooking
             | and long storage periods. Eat one onion and you'll get far
             | more Vitamin C than you need.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | > Why?
             | 
             | None of that.
             | 
             | Cats are obligate carnivores, their bodies don't produce
             | taurine.
             | 
             | And all animals need to eat _something_ because none of us
             | are photovores.
             | 
             | And some plants are carnivores.
             | 
             | If we colonise other worlds, rather than O'Neill habitats
             | or mind uploads, we're almost certainly taking the farms
             | with us for the trip, not rely on local stuff.
        
               | BitwiseFool wrote:
               | And, our metabolism depends on Vitamin B12, which is ONLY
               | made by bacteria. Every plant and animal that needs B12
               | has to get it by eating something else with B12 in it, or
               | having the bacteria responsible in it's digestive tract.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | I'm not sure fixing it would be good. Genetics is tricky,
             | and we don't know what we would lose by fixing that gene.
             | Loss of intelligence is one trade off I've seen suggested,
             | but I don't know what would really happen.
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | This is something I wonder about quite a lot. If we had a way
         | of eating food but knowing it was basically just culinary
         | masturbation so to speak (i.e. no nutrients beyond what is safe
         | or thin), would we still eat like we do - I'm not particularly
         | prone to comfort eating, but the psychology behind these things
         | is fascinating and I would wager the answer is probably no (and
         | would probably be deeply immoral given that some people starve)
        
         | lowdanie wrote:
         | In some sense you have described our microbiome :)
        
       | efficax wrote:
       | What could go wrong
        
         | space_ghost wrote:
         | It didn't go well on that episode of The Outer Limits. John-Boy
         | Walton grew eyes in the back of his head.
        
           | D-Coder wrote:
           | That sounds like a plus. :-)
        
         | thereisnospork wrote:
         | When the alternative is terminal cancer not much.
        
       | tyingq wrote:
       | Robots seems like the wrong word, which seems a comfort in the
       | this case. They mention that both moving it around, and
       | activating the plunger is done via magnetic fields from outside
       | the body. It actually sounds relatively "low tech", which perhaps
       | means faster to approval.
        
         | iancmceachern wrote:
         | They're really just "objects". The real robot is the thing
         | outside the body controlling the "objects".
        
           | greesil wrote:
           | An object killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago.
           | Sometimes it helps to have a sense of scale on how things are
           | worded. Also, marketing.
        
         | coldcode wrote:
         | Star Trek called them nanites.
        
           | space_ghost wrote:
           | Also "Nanoprobes."
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | Nanites are tiny robots though and not moved by outside
           | forces like the thing described by the article.
        
             | andi999 wrote:
             | I like the ones needing outside forces much better.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | As did Mystery Science Theater 3000. I wonder if it's a more
           | generic term than I realized.
           | 
           | https://mst3k.fandom.com/wiki/The_Nanites
        
             | tyingq wrote:
             | Was curious about this also. "Brave new words" (Jeff
             | Prucher) says the Star Trek reference was probably the
             | earliest. Here's a screenshot from the book:
             | https://imgur.com/a/UPahc1w
        
       | fumar wrote:
       | I lost my sister to a glioma a few years back. I've always known
       | that eventually better treatments would become available, but
       | this is novel and not something I envisioned. I hope it works and
       | saves children who have these brain tumors.
        
         | joedevon wrote:
         | My condolences :(
        
       | topynate wrote:
       | Interesting that the size of the devices is limited by imaging
       | technology rather than the ability to fabricate smaller ones. I
       | guess the trade-off is that imaging small things with X-rays
       | requires more ionizing radiation.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-05 23:01 UTC)