[HN Gopher] Atari 800XL PCB Remake ___________________________________________________________________ Atari 800XL PCB Remake Author : mariuz Score : 51 points Date : 2021-03-14 16:30 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (ezcontents.org) (TXT) w3m dump (ezcontents.org) | bullen wrote: | The C64 SID really was an improvement: | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o321fq7O7-Q (Jump to 10:30 for | Atari) | | I wonder why 8-bit Atari failed against Commodore, must have been | pricing? | | The VIC-20 was released after the 400/800 but at half the price | of the 400! | | Then the failed launch of the 1200XL at the same time as the C64 | at 1/4 of that price... | | Jack Tramiel was a wizard of numbers! And getting people to work | very hard! | cmrdporcupine wrote: | Not for long. Tramiel developed a very bad reputation for | screwing over retailers, and his management style led to longer | term problems once his family took over Atari Corp. And the | terms "platforms" and "compatibility" meant nothing to | Commodore in that era. Each machine they built was incompatible | with the next, and the C64 was the only truly successful one. | | The Pokey had/has its own charm. The SID is nice, but that's | hardly what was selling C64s. | | Anyways, you're right, pricing. My cousin had an 800XL and I | had a VIC-20 and my neighbour a C64. Given a choice, I would | have taken the 800XL; its specs were so much better in so many | ways and damn that case design was nice. But that product line | was always more expensive. If the original 400/800 had been | cheaper, Atari would have owned the industry and something like | the C64 never would have succeeded. From many points of view it | is a superior platform (apart, from as you say, the SID). | | According to Wikipedia: | | "After losing $563 million in the first nine months of the | year, Atari that month announced that prices would rise in | January, stating that it "has no intention of participating in | these suicidal price wars".[48] The 600XL and 800XL's prices in | early 1984 were $50 higher than for the Commodore VIC-20 and | 64,[49] and a rumor stated that the company planned to | discontinue hardware and only sell software." | | Warner Bros axed things and Tramiel picked up the corpse after | he was pushed out of Commodore. | | I own them all now :-) | kabdib wrote: | The Tramiels were notoriously tight with money, and would | often just refuse to pay people when they thought they could | get away with it. | | We had some Vax 11/780s (for engineering and finance), and | DEC's service technicians were instructed to collect a | cashier's check at the door or walk away. I got handy with | diagnostic software and a soldering iron. | | In one incident, we had some Motorola VME/10 68K-based | workstations that kept failing and needing things like | motherboard replacements (they were not well designed). About | a year after we pivoted development to the Atari STs (hey, | dogfood...) Sam Tramiel asked me if we were still using the | VME/10s. | | "Hell no," I said, "They were pieces of junk. They're over | there in a corner." I pointed to a corner where a couple of | them were stacked up, gathering dust. | | "Okay, we won't pay them, then," said Sam. He was grinning. I | felt a little sick. | | You really did not want Atari to owe you money, especially if | you were a "little guy". | bullen wrote: | I just bought a first version C64 Reloaded: | | http://move.rupy.se/file/reloaded_sink.jpg | | Also in that picture RR-Net for instant loading of .prg and | multiplayer. The Nunchuk64; an adapter for the new (S)NES | Classic/Mini controllers: | | It's some kind of revenge to play Super Mario Bros on the C64 | with an original new NES controller from Nintendo! | | I got the new transparent case too, waiting for the | MechBoard64 keyboard and new Keycaps! | | The VIC-2 chip also has it's upsides, even if the palette and | 2-pixel-wide 4-color mode is weird; the community today is | the most active and it's growing: | | http://csdb.dk | | Edit: | | Atari: "by November 1983 one toy store chain sold the 800XL | for $149.97" | | C64: "In June 1983 the company lowered the price to $300, and | some stores sold the computer for $199." | | So it wasn't price, I guess software then!? | mariuz wrote: | Also Atari 800XL bill-of-materials (BOM) | https://ezcontents.org/atari-800xl-bill-materials-bom | | Mirror here : | https://web.archive.org/web/20201122190319/https://ezcontent... | Jerry2 wrote: | Excellent work! Now Atari 800XL joins a bunch of other retro PCB | recreation projects: | | Amiga 2000 PCB remake: | https://github.com/Floppie209/Amiga2000-remake | | Amiga 1200 remake: https://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=587 | | Amiga 500+ remake: https://github.com/SukkoPera/Raemixx500 | | Amiga 3000 AGA *(AA3000+) remake: | https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=97670 | | Commodore 64C remake: | https://github.com/KicadRetroArchive/Commodore64C | | Commodore 128CE (work in progress): | https://github.com/jolsson68/C128CE | | I'm sure I'm missing a bunch so please leave links to other retro | computer PCB projects. | bullen wrote: | C64 https://www.tindie.com/products/bobsbits/sixtyclone- | commodor... | | Got some photos of finished boards here: | | http://talk.binarytask.com/task?id=8711454161308077109 | intricatedetail wrote: | I understand it's not possible to copyright a schematic in terms | of connections between components, so this is a fair game to | copy, but the PCB layout is protected as an artwork. I don't know | how this one is similar to original, but I could imagine you | would like to move things around. Or is it too old to be bothered | by that? | intrepidhero wrote: | Can't see the site because it's down but it's highly unlikely | this remake uses all the same components in all the same | packages as the original. The Atari 800XL would used entirely | through hole components and its unlikely all the chips are | still available in DIP. So there will at least be a little | change to accommodate modern packages. ( I suspect) | rjsw wrote: | Probably needs an FPGA to replace the Atari custom graphics | chips too. | GekkePrutser wrote: | Yeah my 800XL's memory chips blew a few years ago and it was | really hard to get new ones. Though ebay helped me out. | | But I think the custom ones will be even harder as they were | completely custom design. Like POKEY and ANTIC. | kalleboo wrote: | I follow the vintage Mac community, and there are people | there remaking classic Mac PCBs as drop-in replacements with | the same chips since so many boards get eaten up by leaking | PRAM batteries or old capacitors corroding the traces on the | board. Most of the chips on the corroded board are still good | (or at least the ones that are custom or no longer made) so | you can desolder them from the dead donor board in the | machine you bought and pop them in the new one | GekkePrutser wrote: | Site seems to be down. Seems an interesting idea though so will | try later. 800XL was my first computer. | orzi wrote: | Mirror here: | https://web.archive.org/web/20210314163530/https://ezcontent... | arnonejoe wrote: | A little off topic but wondering if anyone remembers keying in | and debugging the "game of the month" featured in Antic magazine | (Atari 800)? You you have to hand type and debug pages of line | number basic and the games were largely simple sprite games. | luckman212 wrote: | Oh yeah! been there done that. Somehow typing those damn things | in was usually more fun than the actual game. At least, that's | how I remember it. | andybak wrote: | I hand typed apps on other 80s home computers. Credit to anyone | who managed it on an Atari 400 which probably had the worst | keyboard this side of a ZX81. | mrweasel wrote: | Is it actually possible to get all the required components brand | new, or do you need to get them of old broken machines? | | There where a similar project for the Amiga 500, but actually | building a machine required getting chips of old boards, or | buying them on eBay. | bluGill wrote: | There were several custom chips, so I doubt all parts exist. | cmrdporcupine wrote: | From my understanding -- POKEY chips are easy to get because | they were in so many things other than the home computers | (arcade games, some cartridges, etc.). SALLY is easy to build | a replacement board for using off the shelf logic and a stock | 6502, so less of a complicated situation than the 6510 in the | C64. So that leaves the two graphics chips (ANTIC and GTIA). | pronoiac wrote: | There was a separate blog post about acquiring the parts: | https://ezcontents.org/atari-800xl-bill-materials-bom Mirror: | https://web.archive.org/web/20201122190319/https://ezcontent... | | It looks like they pulled a few components from other systems, | like a Atari 2600 Junior. | pronoiac wrote: | The site's struggling for some; here's the Wayback Machine: | https://web.archive.org/web/20210314163530/https://ezcontent... | | Edit: and the mentioned service manual: | https://archive.org/details/Atari800XLServiceManual | reaperducer wrote: | I've noticed that among retro computer enthusiasts that the 800XL | is the most loved of Atari's eight bit offerings. Can anyone | explain? | | To me, the original 800 was the best, but I don't know enough | about Atari's eight bit offerings to understand the major | differences. | tyingq wrote: | 64k vs 48k of memory seems like the biggest advantage for the | 800XL. | bsharitt wrote: | The 800XL sold the most units, so it's probably likely that | more people had them, and thus more people have more nostalgia | for them. | gbourne wrote: | It is all about the nostalgia. I was introduced to this thing | called "BASIC" on the 800XL and remember the joy of making | the computer beep the theme from Close Encounters of the | Third Kind. | crims0n wrote: | This is true for me, my grandfather had one and it was the | first computer I used with any regularity. | 23d wrote: | For me it was an aesthetic thing. The black modern look with | metallic buttons it had was a departure from the beige that | dominated computers of the time. Atari had a great design | sensibility. The Atari 5200 was another great example of slick | design for the time. | kabdib wrote: | ... except for the 5200's non-centering joysticks. Those | essentially broke the platform. | cmrdporcupine wrote: | The 800XL was a major price reduction from the original 800. In | addition to manufacturing and component cost improvements, FCC | regulations relaxed a bunch between the original revision and | when the 800/600XL came out. So they were able to drop a | boatload of RF shielding, just like the VIC-20 and C64 could. | The inside of the original 800 looks like a bloody Faraday | Cage. | | And by that point in the 80s the original 1979 Atari 800 case | design was starting to look really 70s. At least that's how it | seemed to me as a kid. The 1200XL/800XL case looked so slick. | It's up there with the Sinclair QL and some of the Japanese MSX | machines in terms of case design, IMHO. | bsharitt wrote: | The 800XL is probably one of my favorite 8-bit computers | aesthetically, and definitly my favorite amongst ones that I | own(C64, CoCo2, Ti-99/4a), thought the Ti-99/4a is close | second with that black and metal design, it's just missing | some sleekness. | andybak wrote: | The QL was a beauty. Not sure if it was much more than skin | deep but it looked great in a shop display. | keithnz wrote: | the 800xl looked cool, 64k of memory and basically competed | head on with c64 until the rise of the next gen Amiga/Atari ST, | only to be obliterated by PCs once SVGA came along ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-03-14 23:00 UTC)