[HN Gopher] SpaceX delivers 3rd batch of Starlink satellites in ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       SpaceX delivers 3rd batch of Starlink satellites in two weeks
        
       Author : scottbucks
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2021-03-14 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcrunch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcrunch.com)
        
       | ctdonath wrote:
       | While watching today's launch, occurred to me the ratio of
       | paying-client launches to Starlink launches is [whatever it is].
       | Profit margins on paid launches must be high, maybe amazing, to
       | support so many Starlink launches.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jewel wrote:
         | They've also been raising money ($850M in February) so they
         | don't necessarily have to be using profit from paid launches.
        
         | sfblah wrote:
         | Does SpaceX really have any capital constraints? I'd assume
         | that in the current environment they can essentially
         | raise/borrow unlimited capital just on Musk's brand name.
        
           | adriancr wrote:
           | Just based on their reusable rockets, government contracts
           | and potential they can borrow unlimited capital... Musk is an
           | added bonus (that can also likely fund it himself fully)
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | Starlink should make tons of money soon.
         | 
         | These launch costs are investments.
        
           | martin8412 wrote:
           | They won't.. It's a product that's only remotely viable in
           | remote locations. So Australia, Canada and US. Most of the
           | rest of the world has no need for it
        
             | arcticfox wrote:
             | Seriously? Unless Europe is "most of the world", I think
             | you're quite mistaken.
             | 
             | Join me in rural Brazil, for example!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | _ph_ wrote:
       | Amazing times, when a private company can launch 3 flights in two
       | weeks, not even counting the Starship tests :). It is faszinating
       | to see, how quickly Starlink is progressing, we are on the brink
       | of global satellite broadband internet. This could be a
       | substantial change especially in all the countries without a wide
       | broadband availability. It will be interesting to see whether
       | SpaceX can generate enough revenue to be able to finance large
       | space projects on their own. Of course there is Mars, but also
       | the Moon, perhaps a space station or asteroid mining.
        
         | taf2 wrote:
         | I agree I want to see Venus havoc mission. Floating a blimp in
         | the atmosphere seems so cool
        
           | aero-glide2 wrote:
           | The Soviets sent a balloon to Venus, floated for a few hours
           | I think. Would love to see such missions in HD.
        
         | sterlind wrote:
         | I'm more excited about the sustainable capability to put so
         | much stuff in orbit than for Starlink itself! This feels like a
         | step towards a mega-scale space industry.
        
       | ruph123 wrote:
       | More junk, and no responsibilities of the companies whatsoever.
       | The cleanup (or kessler syndrome-related catastrophe) will be
       | payed with taxpayer money:
       | https://platform.leolabs.space/visualizations/leo
        
         | okl wrote:
         | That's a very cool visualization. When you zoom in you can even
         | see small 3D models that represent the type of debris.
        
         | shantara wrote:
         | Starlink satellites are flying in low Earth orbit with the
         | natural decay and reentry time no more than 5 years.
         | 
         | I see this same argument repeated in every Starlink discussion
         | thread.
        
           | okl wrote:
           | Junk is junk, even if it's "just" 5 years.
        
       | immmmmm wrote:
       | am i the only person thinking that there should be laws to
       | prevent rich individuals to increase the mass in LEO by a factor
       | 10 in less than 10 years? i understand the enthusiasm but
       | shouldn't these decisions let to the people, countries, for
       | instance an intergouvernemental agency.
       | 
       | also: is the dark coating working? without it those are quite
       | visible, and make radio and optical astronomy much harder
       | (especially large sky surveys).
        
         | manicdee wrote:
         | The dark coating isn't used anymore, they have a visor/sunshade
         | instead. The satellites people can see with the naked eye have
         | not reached their service orbit yet, and they are not aligned
         | to use the sunshade (they are instead configured to raise orbit
         | as quickly as possible).
         | 
         | As for the rules about polluting space, the simple fact is that
         | none of the rules makers expected that some agency would want
         | to launch thousands of satellites. There are no rules covering
         | this scenario.
         | 
         | AFAIK the nearest we have to rules covering the proliferation
         | of communications satellites are ITU rules on access to
         | spectrum. There's no restriction on the number of satellites,
         | just who is using what frequency in which part of the sky.
         | 
         | If you want to add rules about the number of satellites in
         | orbit, better get in quick before StarLink becomes too valuable
         | to ban.
        
           | immmmmm wrote:
           | thanks for the precisions!
           | 
           | i fear however no one wants to rule on that, at least for
           | now.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | > _If you want to add rules about the number of satellites in
           | orbit, better get in quick before StarLink becomes too
           | valuable to ban._
           | 
           | Question is, why would one want it? It's going to look like
           | an equivalent of someone in XIX century capping the maximum
           | amounts of widgets a factory can produce per year to a level
           | that can be matched by artisan production, because all those
           | conveyor belts and precision parts are making production
           | _too_ fast.
           | 
           | Assuming one likes the idea of humanity spreading out past
           | Earth's surface, and perhaps taking the dirtiest aspects of
           | civilization upwell - we're going to need a proper space-
           | based economy. Mining, manufacturing and all. Starlink's
           | impact on LEO is going to look like child's play in
           | comparison. So if one wants to see space being developed,
           | then one has to accept and embrace that Earth's orbit is
           | going to get _way_ more cluttered than it is.
        
         | mullingitover wrote:
         | > i understand the enthusiasm but shouldn't these decisions let
         | to the people, countries, for instance a intergouvernemental
         | agency.
         | 
         | The people elected the leadership which oversees the government
         | agency which approved this project, so ultimately the people
         | allowed this project to happen. This isn't a case of one person
         | doing something alone.
        
         | Strom wrote:
         | Would it apply only to the rich or to everyone? If everyone,
         | then why bring out the richness?
         | 
         | Do you want to prevent satellites existing completely or just
         | keep it at some threshold that has been crossed?
         | 
         | Most importantly, what's the actual problem here? You haven't
         | pointed out any downsides of having increased mass in LEO.
        
           | immmmmm wrote:
           | this applies to everyone but only the rich has the money. the
           | technology almost didn't change since von Braun in 1940, go
           | have a look at a V2 turbopump and compare with the latest
           | Barber-Nichols models. sure metal alloys changed a bit, ball
           | bearings are better, etc... "Rocket Science" is still the
           | same as 80 years ago: fine engineering and a lot of testing.
           | 
           | there are a lot of useful satellites: for instance for Earth
           | monitoring, it happens we are on a climate transient, those
           | are very relevant. not saying that ppl in rural areas do not
           | deserve internet, but Musk was clear that Starlink was more
           | to finance his mars dream first and foremost.
           | 
           | the problem is pollution and deregulation. and kessler
           | syndrome that might knock out essential satellites in the
           | long run.
        
         | jonplackett wrote:
         | I mean, they had to apply for a license to do it, and it was
         | granted.
        
           | immmmmm wrote:
           | by whom? the FCC. i live in switzerland, does USA own LEO?
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Effectively? Yes. Not in a "we can prevent anything we
             | want" but a "we can do whatever we want" way.
        
             | fabiospampinato wrote:
             | It doesn't work like that, "owning" and human laws in
             | general are kind of a fantasy, to make an absurd
             | hypothetical scenario to illustrate this: imagine the
             | aliens landed on Earth, would you say they should first get
             | a permit to anchor their spaceship somewhere before doing
             | that? At the end of the day words on paper don't matter
             | much, if Switzerland shoots those satellites down they
             | could be deleted from the world map with some nukes, who
             | has the power decides.
        
             | jhayward wrote:
             | Under the International Treaty for Outer Space, each
             | signatory nation is responsible for regulating that
             | activity of those operating from within their territory.
             | Switzerland signed the treat in 1967 [1]
             | 
             | So that's all as it should be, and Switzerland agrees that
             | the mechanism of regulation is the operant one.
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty#Respon
             | sibil...
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | Whoever has power and the inclination to enforce their will
             | upon others decides everything, period.
             | 
             | This whole fantasy of "rights" that people like to engage
             | in is just that - a fantasy.
             | 
             | The best you can hope for is that the strongest is also a
             | benevolent philosopher king.
        
         | mempko wrote:
         | FCC actually gave Spacex 900 million to put those things up
         | there. So Musk will profit at our expense. Are all his
         | businesses government subsidized?
         | 
         | I could still see the trail of them before dusk so it appears
         | it isn't working.
         | 
         | edit: the experts agree that spacex didn't do enough to reduce
         | reflectivity and that it's still an issue.
         | https://physicsworld.com/a/dark-coated-starlink-satellites-a...
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | If you're seeing trains of satellites, those have not yet
           | reached their parking orbits and have not oriented themselves
           | or deployed their sunshades. Once they've gotten to where
           | they're intended to be, they'll become far more dim and for
           | the most part should only be visible during a brief period
           | around dusk.
        
             | mempko wrote:
             | So they haven't solved the reflectivity issue? Solving it
             | would mean they aren't visible at all with the naked eye.
             | Since there are thousands of them, this is a problem for
             | land based observation no?
             | 
             | edit: looks like it's still a problem according to experts.
             | https://physicsworld.com/a/dark-coated-starlink-
             | satellites-a...
        
           | aerovistae wrote:
           | "at our expense"? You clearly don't have to deal with rural
           | internet if you think this is a net loss for society.
        
             | mempko wrote:
             | It could have been a non-profit operation no? I would
             | expect rural internet to be cheaper than what SpaceX is
             | charging. $100 per month is very expensive, especially for
             | people in rural areas which generally are poorer.
             | 
             | Example, I believe over 90% of rural china has high speed
             | internet and they pay less than $10 a month.
             | 
             | Edit. Anyone have a good argument why we can't get $10 per
             | month high speed internet in rural areas in the USA? If
             | spacex can get there costs down to $10 per month, then I
             | will be impressed. Otherwise it isn't cheaper than laying
             | fiber.
        
               | sigstoat wrote:
               | > Anyone have a good argument why we can't get $10 per
               | month high speed internet in rural areas in the USA?
               | 
               | do you have any idea how much it costs to dig a trench?
               | look up a calculator for figuring out the present value
               | of a perpetuity that pays $10/mo. that will barely cover
               | somebody digging a trench through your front yard, and
               | laying fiber in it, let alone doing that down miles of
               | rural street.
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | The whole point of this is that it isn't a non-profit,
               | though. I'd love to live in a world where we can snap our
               | fingers and motivate people to build $1/month internet,
               | but that's not even a remote possibility. Starlink's big
               | boon was that someone with money saw a problem and
               | invested a ton of money into fixing it, hoping to turn a
               | profit in the long-term. I'd love for someone to run
               | fiber out to my house, but even getting it to my
               | neighborhood would start at $30,000. Enter Starlink: cut
               | out the landline companies and offer good internet,
               | forcing the big players to offer better services in order
               | to compete.
               | 
               | Also, if you think $100/month is expensive, you don't go
               | shopping for rural internet very often. There isn't an
               | ISP on the planet that offers the speeds or latency that
               | Starlink has right now, and believe me, I've tried to
               | find one. $500 for installation and $100/month is
               | reasonably appropriate for the services they're
               | providing, especially if they're taking a $1000-2000 loss
               | on each dish they ship to customers.
        
               | new_realist wrote:
               | Have you tried an LTE or 5G access point? They cover
               | roughly 97% of the U.S. population. And you don't have to
               | pay for Internet _and_ also pay for mobile service.
        
               | kitsunesoba wrote:
               | The problem with laying fiber in the continental US (and
               | I suspect also in Canada) is not typically cost. It's
               | death by a thousand cuts with problems acquiring land
               | rights, fighting incumbent ISPs and the local politicians
               | and congressmen in their pockets, and simple will on the
               | part of ISPs.
               | 
               | Google tried to make fiber cheap and ubiquitous with
               | Google Fiber and failed. If an organization with the
               | power, resources, and clout of Google can't get it done,
               | I don't know who can short of the federal government
               | getting involved (which, thanks to lobbyists, is
               | unlikely).
               | 
               | LEO constellations bypass these issues almost entirely
               | and ironically enough may motivate incumbent ISPs to try
               | to compete and stop being so obstructive.
        
               | cbozeman wrote:
               | Google didn't fail, they gave up.
               | 
               | They have the money to do it, they didn't want to spend
               | it. They thought everyone would start writing letters to
               | their congressmen on their behalf and force the
               | government into making the other big fiber ISPs play
               | fair.
               | 
               | That's how fucking dumb so the so-called "smartest people
               | in the room" can be.
               | 
               | Google should have budgeted $10 billion a year for 10
               | years for Google Fiber. And in 20 years' time, Google
               | could have been the largest provider of fiber Internet
               | service in the United States, possibly servicing almost
               | every single address in the country. Instead, they did
               | what they *ALWAYS* fucking do... it didn't "catch on" in
               | a year or two's time and they abandoned it.
               | 
               | I can't wait to see Google utterly fail as a company,
               | given how shit they are at execution of everything but
               | the most obvious, largest, and easiest-to-enter markets.
               | 
               | Elon Musk entered the three hardest markets known to
               | fuckin' mankind... automotive, orbital launch, and ISPs,
               | and he's utterly destroying mother fuckers. If I was an
               | executive involved with Google Fiber, I'd blow my brains
               | out due to utter shame.
        
       | ShockedUnicorn wrote:
       | For the people talking about space pollution and problems for
       | astronomers. Yes, it is definitely an issue, but this
       | constellation is also a way for many people to have access to
       | education and information that will help them and their
       | community.
       | 
       | If you're curious about both the positives and negatives of
       | Starlink I highly recommend the mini documentary "Is this the END
       | of Astronomy?" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TifUa8ENQes
       | 
       | Most things in life are like this. Wind turbines are a great way
       | to supply green energy, but building them takes a lot of energy.
       | So it is important to also think about things like using low co2
       | concrete, and making them more efficient. They also kill many
       | birds, but this is nothing compared to the amount of birds that
       | cats kill. And engineers are working on ways to get fewer birds
       | killed.
        
         | martin8412 wrote:
         | Many people? You mean people in rural US/Canada and Australia.
         | The rest of the world already has been options in most places.
        
         | newman8r wrote:
         | > They also kill many birds, but this is nothing compared to
         | the amount of birds that cats kill.
         | 
         | FWIW, turbines may be worse than cats in terms of harming large
         | birds of prey. You won't see neighborhood cats killing eagles.
         | I'd still agree that it's probably a reasonable tradeoff
         | though, and that it could be further reduced with better
         | engineering.
        
         | rb666 wrote:
         | Wind turbines do not kill many birds, that is a myth pushed by
         | climate hoaxers.
         | 
         | They have their drawbacks, but that aint one of 'em.
        
           | minitoar wrote:
           | Where are you getting this information from?
        
         | eecc wrote:
         | Yeah, apparently just paint one rotor blade differently to make
         | it stand out and birds will stay clear [1]
         | 
         | Maybe Starlink constellations will be an incentive to finish
         | the JWT, and other space telescopes...
         | 
         | [1] https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/black-paint-on-
         | wind-...
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | > _Yeah, apparently just paint one rotor blade differently to
           | make it stand out and birds will stay clear [1]_
           | 
           | The study you're citing was only studied 4 wind turbines,
           | while the evidence does point towards this working, I
           | wouldn't say that the existing evidence is conclusive. Also,
           | the turbines with the darker blades still killed birds, just
           | less bird than the turbines with standard blades.
        
             | biotinker wrote:
             | Wind turbines don't kill enough birds to be more than a
             | drop in the dead-bird bucket. It's a talking point used by
             | people who were looking for reasons to be against wind
             | turbines, but housecats kill four orders of magnitudes- not
             | 4x, 10,000x- more birds each year.
             | 
             | The percent of human-caused bird deaths due to wind
             | turbines is smaller than the percent of Americans dying in
             | airplane crashes each year, compared to all US deaths each
             | year.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | That would be smart of spacex to allocate some profits to do
           | these projects. win-win business orientation
        
         | serf wrote:
         | >Most things in life are like this. Wind turbines are a great
         | way to supply green energy, but building them takes a lot of
         | energy.
         | 
         | Reminder : we only have one sky.
         | 
         | Things offer both positives and negatives, but
         | 
         | a) generally those things are decided by local powers and
         | authorities that can be influenced by local populations -- not
         | corporations from specific countries that may or may not be far
         | away and without local permission
         | 
         | (those decisions that are made by foreign corporations that
         | modify local attributes is generally frowned upon -- very few
         | like the oil rigs scattered around the ocean, they tolerate
         | them due to the profits associated)
         | 
         | b) very few of these decisions create global impacts, the ones
         | that do (say, environmental issues) have many confounding
         | factors and influence groups working with them, representing
         | many different people and locales.
         | 
         | In just so happens that in the case of 'the sky' we're all
         | 'locals' -- but very few people, with respect to 'the world',
         | had a say in the matter.
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | Sure, but don't forget SpaceX is a for-profit organization.
        
       | alextheparrot wrote:
       | My mother was raving about the service the other day.
       | 
       | Speeds are 10-15x faster, she's having an easier time with her
       | online community college course and her job KPI is up by double
       | digit percents [1]. She was worried that IT wouldn't be OK with
       | it when I said it was satellite (They'd been burned too many
       | times), but the IT guy was incredibly excited because he's also
       | waiting to get Starlink.
       | 
       | Looking forward to the service only getting better, really
       | incredible execution.
       | 
       | [0] My dad went on the roof in the cold Wisconsin winter to put
       | it up.
       | 
       | [1] Lines transcribed per hour, as a medical transcriptionist
       | working from home.
        
         | iso1210 wrote:
         | Any issues with snow etc?
        
           | robbiet480 wrote:
           | Dishy will actually intentionally heat up to melt snow. I've
           | seen YouTube videos of it melting a good amount of snow per
           | hour and service remaining stable.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Dishy also seems to continually pull 100 watts even when
             | not in melt mode.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | Topgamer7 wrote:
           | I was thinking it might generate enough heat to keep it warm.
           | But the comments in this thread appear to think it has a
           | heater inside of it:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JSq6xB591M
        
             | kristofferR wrote:
             | There's absolutely no heater inside it, as this great
             | disassembly/destruction shows:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOmdQnIlnRo
        
           | jmreid wrote:
           | Zero issues from my experience. The dish has a snow melt
           | "mode", and I didn't have to manually clean it at all after a
           | large snowfall.
        
         | ttul wrote:
         | I am excited to receive my base station shortly.
        
         | rjzzleep wrote:
         | Faster than? Also, does anyone know who's behind this effort?
         | Other leaders would celebrate the people behind the development
         | but at spacex and tesla it's only ever news about Musk?
         | 
         | Any interesting people behind what is happening at SpaceX ?
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | It appears to be faster than rural Wisconsin internet
           | service.
           | 
           | someone I know (coincidentally in wisconsin) is getting 100m
           | down 20m up
           | 
           | There's always (the other) Linus:
           | https://youtu.be/Fh1a2K9ZgNA
        
             | JasonFruit wrote:
             | I'm in Wisconsin, just got it, and am seeing 65-115 down,
             | 15-40 up. I was hoping it would be better than Hughesnet,
             | but I didn't expect it would be quite this good. I did have
             | about a five minute downtime yesterday. Not too shabby!
        
               | SkyPuncher wrote:
               | What's your latency like?
               | 
               | I'm in exurban Wisconsin. Speeds are fine, but Charter
               | has terrible routing that pushes everything out to
               | Minnesota before routing back down to Chicago. 40ms to
               | 60ms latency on EVERYTHING.
        
               | JasonFruit wrote:
               | It's varied from as low as 30ms up to almost 80. Latency
               | is just not going to be great with satellites, seeing
               | that we're pushing it out to _fricking space_.
        
               | brianwawok wrote:
               | Except it's low space. And signals travel faster in air
               | than in glass. And the path is likely more direct.
               | 
               | Just space alone isn't enough to say the latency will be
               | worse.
        
           | aero-glide2 wrote:
           | Couldn't find names but the employees did an AMA on reddit ht
           | tps://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/jybmgn/we_are_the...
        
             | rjzzleep wrote:
             | > Couldn't find names
             | 
             | That's kinda sad, isn't it?
        
               | mulcahey wrote:
               | Per this article Mark Juncosa has lead the development of
               | the satellites
               | 
               | https://qz.com/1627570/how-autonomous-are-spacexs-
               | starlink-s...
        
               | rjzzleep wrote:
               | From what I see he's been working at SpaceX since he
               | graduated college. I don't see where his satcom knowledge
               | comes from, which is arguable the most interesting part
               | of Starlink. Not the vehicle design.
               | 
               | It's really unfortunate that this company unlike most
               | companies treats all the brain drain as an ego trip.
        
           | Rule35 wrote:
           | I haven't heard anything about NDAs that prevent you talking
           | about the general area of your work at any of Musk's
           | companies. There are certainly people on LinkedIn talking
           | about what they do.
           | 
           | Look at any FAANG presentation. The VP of the department
           | introduces a PM, who may have a senior engineer with them.
           | The other 98% of the team isn't mentioned.
           | 
           | > That's kinda sad, isn't it?
           | 
           | Why don't you start a thread about it. Poll workers and see
           | if they find themselves upset by it or not. Don't just borrow
           | offense on their behalf.
        
       | agency wrote:
       | As someone stuck on old (HughesNet) satellite internet and
       | waiting on my Starlink pre-order, this is great news. I didn't
       | get into the beta sadly, though I was signed up and in the
       | eligibility area since day 1.
        
         | aero-glide2 wrote:
         | Did you sign up for the $99 deposit which puts you in the
         | queue?
        
           | agency wrote:
           | Yep, did so the day I was able to. I was pretty bummed not to
           | get into the beta, especially after torturing myself by
           | periodically checking /r/Starlink which was just wall-to-wall
           | posts of people celebrating their invites. Just glad to have
           | a spot in line at this point.
        
       | joezydeco wrote:
       | So where is Amazon in relation to all of this?
       | 
       | I got pinged by a recruiter from Kuiper the other week and all I
       | can see is that there's no way they're on track to be working in
       | 5 years. They don't even have a stable launch platform. Would
       | Musk sell Bezos the ride?
        
         | rklaehn wrote:
         | I think SpaceX would sell them launches.
         | 
         | First of all, why wouldn't they? They are confident that their
         | satellite tech is superior.
         | 
         | And second, SpaceX is dominating the commercial launch market
         | to such a degree that they would run into antitrust issues if
         | they were to use their launch dominance for antocompetitive
         | behaviour.
         | 
         | But Bezos would probably be too proud to launch on SpaceX...
        
           | Robotbeat wrote:
           | Yeah, I agree. And this would be one reason to spin off
           | Starlink in an IPO. So customers would be okay with SpaceX
           | launching their constellation.
        
           | marcusverus wrote:
           | Musk's stated goal for Space X is to colonize Mars. His
           | stated goal for Starlink is to fund said colonization. I 'm
           | not so sure that he would enable any competition that he saw
           | as having the potential to pose a real threat to his ultimate
           | goal.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | You know, I have to wonder though.
             | 
             | I've been ok with the tesla-only superchargers, because
             | they are good. But it is a self-serving infrastructure and
             | a competitive advantage.
             | 
             | I wonder what the reality would be about sending up bezos's
             | satellites? It could also be a PR problem, PLUS it would
             | undermine the bezos employees working on their launch
             | platform.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
         | Bezos is in it only because he too has a rocket company. If he
         | wanted to be in the business of feeding on the scraps of others
         | he'd release his own terrestrial internet service.
        
           | parsimo2010 wrote:
           | AWS has also created satellite ground stations in the last
           | few years. A commercial satellite internet service running
           | from the ground stations would probably justify scaling out,
           | and having a larger network of ground stations would help AWS
           | attract more commercial space customers. Bezos has been
           | working this from a few angles, not just from a keep up with
           | Musk attitude.
        
           | Robotbeat wrote:
           | That's why Elon's in it with Starlink. From Elon's
           | perspective, if Starlink merely breaks even, it will be more
           | than worth it as it has drastically increased launch demand,
           | enabling high flight rate reusable rockets.
        
             | shantara wrote:
             | Not just increased launch demand, Starlink launches serve
             | SpaceX as a testbed for reusability and refurbishment
             | techniques they want to experiment on themselves without
             | risking customer hardware.
             | 
             | For example, they intentionally swap hardware components
             | between reflown boosters to better understand their
             | behavior after multiple reuses, to the point they have
             | individual modules that have flown more times than the
             | current maximum number of reuses of any booster as a whole
             | (currently at 9).
             | 
             | Another example, they've stopped having static fires for
             | flight proven boosters first for Starlink, then for
             | customer payloads too, unless the customer explicitly
             | requests it.
             | 
             | It's unbelievable that "flight proven booster" turned out
             | to be really what it says on the tin, and not just a piece
             | of marketing speak.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | > _It 's unbelievable that "flight proven buster" turned
               | out to be really what it says on the tin, and not just a
               | piece of marketing speak._
               | 
               | That's a thing to love about SpaceX. When they first
               | started using this phrase, it was tongue-in-cheek in a
               | pretty obvious way. Three years later, it was no longer a
               | joke.
        
               | the8472 wrote:
               | It's "booster", not "buster".
        
               | shantara wrote:
               | Fixed, thanks.
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | Webservers... in space!
        
             | hackeraccount wrote:
             | Given that Starlink will do links between satellites that's
             | actually an interesting idea. From what I've read one of
             | the problems with it is heat management. Space is chilly
             | but it's not a great heat sink and servers generate a lot
             | of heat.
        
         | dillondoyle wrote:
         | Would there be potential AWS synergies that make any sense?
         | 
         | Besides having the money to basically give it away for free,
         | that could be a big value add if so.
         | 
         | idk maybe enabling the blanketing of the earth in ever
         | expanding ring/echo surveillance. or a cdn though uploading
         | huge video files to a satellite hard drive might not make any
         | sense or actually save any MS given the inherent satellite ->
         | earth delay.
        
           | easton wrote:
           | There was always the hypothesis that servers in orbit would
           | lower latency since you wouldn't have to bounce back to
           | Earth, but given the maintenance and power requirements I
           | don't think that'd be very doable. A CDN would work I think,
           | provided you could power the hard drives.
        
             | unoti wrote:
             | > ...servers in orbit would lower latency since you
             | wouldn't have to bounce back to Earth... A CDN would work I
             | think, provided you could power the hard drives.
             | 
             | But doing it all solid state with RAM + SSD could totally
             | make sense, especially if you cache only the highest access
             | items in space... Something like this could also make sense
             | to do custom silicon/ASICs to keep the power and weight
             | requirements down.
        
       | BooneJS wrote:
       | My high school daughter has really gotten into astronomy and
       | space in the last few years, and is torn between celebrating the
       | 9th use of the same first-stage rocket and hating the pieces of
       | space junk it's delivering to low earth orbit.
        
         | TameAntelope wrote:
         | Your high school daughter could be the person that helps SpaceX
         | figure out their "space junk" problem!
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | Starlink satellites will only stay up about five years without
         | propulsion, and unless a satellite breaks hard it will be
         | deorbited with propulsion much faster.
         | 
         | Concerns about space junk aren't about these low orbits, they
         | are about orbits where things stay up hundreds of years or much
         | longer.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Isn't low earth orbit the best place for space junk as it burns
         | up relatively easily?
        
           | Robotbeat wrote:
           | Yeah, and SpaceX has gone through extraordinary lengths to
           | reduce the visibility of Starlink satellites. However, the
           | astronomy community overall hates it and it's kind of a meme
           | now.
        
             | BooneJS wrote:
             | Like most engineering projects with continuous improvement,
             | the newer satellites are less reflective than the older
             | ones.
        
         | dcgoss wrote:
         | It's not space junk. When they're ready to be decommissioned or
         | they fail, the thrusters turn off and the whole thing descends
         | into the atmosphere and burns up.
        
           | missedthecue wrote:
           | I wonder how much rare earth material will get incinerated
           | over the next few decades with thousands of these things
           | burning up annually. Hope we figure out space mining quick.
        
             | Thorondor wrote:
             | Rare earth elements actually aren't that rare. For example,
             | neodymium makes up over 30 ppm of Earth's crust. That's
             | more common than lead, cobalt, tin, thorium, tungsten,
             | molybdenum, and quite a few other elements with large-scale
             | industrial applications.
             | 
             | The difficult part of producing rare-earth elements is
             | separating them from everything else. Tiny pieces of
             | spacecraft dust scattered over a large area don't make very
             | high grade ore...
        
               | tuatoru wrote:
               | "Earth" is an old word for ore.
               | 
               | Rare earth elements are so named because their earths are
               | rare: there aren't many places on the crust where their
               | concentration is significantly above the average. Mining
               | depends on the existence of mineral earths.
               | 
               | GP raises a valid point -- although a weak one.
        
             | jiofih wrote:
             | Probably about half a suburban town's worth of iPhones.
        
               | missedthecue wrote:
               | But all the components of an iPhone can technically be
               | recycled to one degree or another (even if they aren't at
               | present). Once a satellite has been incinerated, that's
               | it. And there will be thousands of these, and several
               | providers. That's thousands and thousands of pounds of
               | material disappearing for good, every year.
        
           | BooneJS wrote:
           | I think terminology can mean different things to different
           | people. Typically space junk refers to decommissioned or
           | otherwise useless satellites. But if you're a ground-based
           | astronomer taking long exposure photographs, the trails of
           | reflective satellites are of no use to you.
        
       | Magodo wrote:
       | I'm keen to see Starlink deals with government censorship
       | requests. Can a country even effectively enforce their requests?
       | How will China enforce the Great Firewall for instance?
        
         | TeeMassive wrote:
         | ADV China did a video segment about this. It's already illegal
         | in China to get satellite dishes, they really are afraid of
         | their citizens knowing what's really going on.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | I've been torrenting plenty of... perfectly legal data over my
         | Starlink connection, I have yet to hear anything from Elon's
         | folks.
        
         | rklaehn wrote:
         | Any major space power (Russia, China, India) will be able to
         | dictate the conditions of Starlink operations.
         | 
         | Basically: dear SpaceX, please switch off your sats over our
         | territory, or we will do it for you.
        
           | dillondoyle wrote:
           | talk about space debris - blowing up that many satellites
           | would be insane.
        
             | wffurr wrote:
             | They are low enough that any debris will deorbit shortly.
        
             | tidepod12 wrote:
             | It would only take blowing up one satellite to let the
             | world know they're serious about it, at which point SpaceX
             | would almost certainly be forced to comply with China's
             | demands, if only because SpaceX would have to acknowledge
             | that the debris from even a handful of destroyed satellites
             | would cause serious danger to the operations of the rest of
             | the constellation.
        
             | jiveturkey wrote:
             | you only have to jam it
        
               | zizee wrote:
               | Or arrest people that are using easily detectable
               | satellite dishes.
        
               | sangnoir wrote:
               | All satellite dishes are easily detectable when they are
               | in operation - they _have_ to transmit RF radiation which
               | can be detected and pinpointed to source anywhere from
               | low-altitude all the way up to space. Anyone of a certain
               | age who lived in a country that required TV licenses
               | remembers the enforcement trucks that would detect RF
               | emissions from vacuum-tube TV sets using directional
               | antennae.
        
         | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
         | By pressuring Tesla. One thing making me nervous with Tesla's
         | China business is that it will become too big for Tesla to let
         | it fail, at which point Tesla (and every other Musk company)
         | will be beholden to the CCP.
        
           | jiofih wrote:
           | Concerns like this are why I think he considered taking it
           | private again. He can personally not give a fuck and decide
           | to pull out of China anytime, but being a public company and
           | "acting in shareholder's interests" might get in the way of
           | ethics...
        
             | rat9988 wrote:
             | I'm not sure how pulling out the plug is more ethical than
             | selling a gimped version of the product because of the
             | local laws.
        
           | dillondoyle wrote:
           | Maybe it will be moot since CCP might likely fund, steal,
           | push for - whatever it takes - their own internal 'ip' &
           | supply. Maybe batteries are difficult though.
        
         | easton wrote:
         | Starlink already said they will comply with whatever is needed
         | from a specific government, including selling through local
         | resellers and routing through things like the GFW. It's not
         | designed for censorship resistance, the only real way around it
         | would be to get a foreign dishy/modem.
        
           | KingMachiavelli wrote:
           | I would be surprised if it was that simple. Countries like
           | Russia and China are going to want a very visible method of
           | knowing whether a given ground dish is the normal version or
           | their countries specific version. Anything that is just
           | cosmetic would be too simple to fake. The biggest problem is
           | that if any other entity controls the satellites themselves;
           | they could turn routing the the GFW on and off which would be
           | a huge security risk for these countries. (i.e western
           | countries pressure Starlink to turn GFW routing off).
           | 
           | I wouldn't be surprised if China just started their own state
           | sponsored low orbit satellite internet.
           | 
           | Another decent, cheaper middle ground would be operating just
           | the 'first-hop' satellites that ground units communicate with
           | and adjusting the technology such that the dish units used in
           | china are substantially different in terms of the actual RF.
           | Then these China run satellites enforce the GFW and then
           | route traffic to Starlink and other 'non-china' satellites.
           | 
           | The biggest downside I see to that setup is that this
           | satellite technology has to in a non-geostationary orbit
           | which means you need a lot more satellites to get 24 hour
           | coverage in a specific location. This isn't a problem if you
           | want to provide service to the entire planet but for country
           | specific networks; the extra satellites are a bit redundant.
           | 
           | The even safer option is to make running a ground dish itself
           | a government enterprise. Private/non-state ownership remains
           | illegal but the state uses Starlink et al. as just another
           | backbone in their state network. This is probably the most
           | likely since it is far simpler to integrate and control.
           | 
           | Starlink's stance on the issue is probably enough to satisfy
           | countries like the UK that have some unique internet laws but
           | are still satisfied with using the normal western legal
           | process to enforce their needs.
        
         | drglitch wrote:
         | Russia already has law in works to make possession of StarLink
         | hardware illegal. There was some coverage in January:
         | https://m.slashdot.org/story/380606
        
         | grecy wrote:
         | Plenty of countries today already restrict the import of
         | certain products (sat phones, CB radios, weapons, etc.)
         | 
         | The SpaceX receiving dish (dishy) will just be on that list for
         | certain countries.
        
         | elihu wrote:
         | > How will China enforce the Great Firewall for instance?
         | 
         | By filing legal complaints through the ITU (which is a UN
         | agency), probably. I expect some international treaties
         | probably come into play. Basically, China complains to the UN,
         | the UN tells the US they can't provide Internet service in
         | China unless they follow China's rules, and then the FCC tells
         | SpaceX that if they don't comply the FCC will shut them down.
         | 
         | Of course, the US government could just decide to ignore China
         | and let SpaceX do whatever they want. (This is all assuming
         | that SpaceX wants to be the Robin Hood of the global Internet
         | and take censorship from the powerful and give access to the
         | poor and not worry about the geopolitical or economic
         | consequences. They might just want to be a regular internet
         | service provider that follows all the rules in whatever country
         | they operate in and doesn't make waves. They could also just
         | not offer service in China.)
        
           | p2t2p wrote:
           | That's, easy, just like they do it in Russia - jail time and
           | fines for having Space X antenna.
        
         | Youden wrote:
         | How does this work for existing satellite internet providers?
         | 
         | I'm guessing there will be Starlink ground stations located in
         | China that are subject to the same conditions as all the other
         | local ISPs?
        
         | kiba wrote:
         | China will just confiscate any satellite dishes. SpaceX will
         | comply if they want the market, or someone else will.
        
           | rfrey wrote:
           | I think the "if Amazon/Google/FB don't comply, someone else
           | will take their place" argument is weaker when replacement
           | requires a constellation of thousands of satellites.
        
             | Roritharr wrote:
             | I wonder if the USG would consider the shooting down of
             | Starlink Satellites as an act of war after SpaceX refuses
             | to comply with chinese regulations.
             | 
             | It's probably all moot as China would probably simply halt
             | Tesla Sales, as they are not bound by the logics of
             | legality.
        
               | postingawayonhn wrote:
               | I don't think anyone has the ability to shoot down enough
               | Starlink satellites to make a difference.
               | 
               | Musk's biggest risk in China is the CCP confiscating the
               | Tesla factory in Shanghai.
        
               | wcoenen wrote:
               | Turning one satellite into a cloud of debris would
               | suffice, Kessler syndrome would do the rest.
        
               | jiofih wrote:
               | We are very very far from that happening. Even with most
               | satellites being in the same torus around earth, if every
               | single one in orbit right now were to instantly shatter,
               | each piece would have something like a 1000sqkm volume to
               | roam in.
        
               | JasonFruit wrote:
               | *area
        
               | voldacar wrote:
               | Debris would deorbit rapidly, starlink satellites are
               | relatively low-altitude.
        
               | Demigod33 wrote:
               | > I don't think anyone has the ability to shoot down
               | enough Starlink satellites to make a difference.
               | 
               | Not with rockets, but maybe with lasers? What damage can
               | a single one do? Could a country deploy them at specific
               | orbits to have enough coverage to destroy a sufficient
               | amount?
        
               | martin8412 wrote:
               | China most probably have the resources for that if they
               | want to
        
               | throwaway53453 wrote:
               | This is why the Space Force is unironically a great idea.
        
               | jiofih wrote:
               | There is no "airspace" controlled by countries in space,
               | and the satellites are not geostationary, so they would
               | have to shoot down everyone's fleet.
        
               | TaylorAlexander wrote:
               | Shooting down any satellites is extremely dangerous due
               | to the orbital debris this would create. The US would
               | take that act very seriously.
        
           | castratikron wrote:
           | Seems like there's an opportunity to produce an open-source
           | SpaceX compatible antenna that someone could build
           | themselves. I wonder if at some point SpaceX could allow this
           | on their network?
        
             | sigstoat wrote:
             | > Seems like there's an opportunity to produce an open-
             | source SpaceX compatible antenna that someone could build
             | themselves.
             | 
             | you'd need at least $400 of test equipment to check that
             | the >$100 of parts were working right, and to diagnose any
             | problems. not cost effective.
        
               | zbrozek wrote:
               | I'd be amazed if it's that little in test equipment.
        
               | dmurray wrote:
               | That's certainly not prohibitive in the US. Starlink
               | already charge $500 for hardware and $100/month.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | I'm not an electrical engineer, but (both) family members
             | who got electronics qualifications have told me RF phase
             | matching circuits are a PITA to build right, and this
             | antenna is a many-element phased array.
             | 
             | They told me this about 20 years ago and I don't know
             | what's changed since then. Presumably someone here knows if
             | it's still hard or if it became easy since 2001?
        
           | slickrick216 wrote:
           | SpaceX will deploy a low orbit ion cannon and DoS the Chinese
           | censors.
        
         | toast0 wrote:
         | I imagine China will apply pressure to the company/officers. If
         | that fails, they will track RF emissions and disappear users.
         | If that fails, they will start RF jamming. If that fails,
         | accidents in space.
         | 
         | More interesting than China though are regional communications
         | shutdowns. Will India be able to turn off communications in
         | Kashmir? Will various countries be able to turn off the
         | internet on national school entrance exam days? Will
         | democracies for show be able to turn off the internet when the
         | votes aren't as expected?
        
         | fancy_pantser wrote:
         | China has started building their own satellite broadband
         | constellation (up to 12,992 have been applied for) that is
         | routed to comply with their policies.
        
         | fireeyed wrote:
         | They get "Jack Maa'd"
        
         | consumer451 wrote:
         | FWIW, there was a video with I believe Gwynn Shotwell saying
         | every country, including the USA, required an "off switch" to
         | receive approval. Nothing about line item censorship was
         | mentioned.
        
       | echopom wrote:
       | I'm really concerned about the alarms raised by Scientific in
       | regards to "Space Pollution".[0]
       | 
       | Elon Musk has been dodging the question for the past years and
       | never gave a clear answer about it aside of "Umbrella" joke...
       | 
       | Some astronomers are suggesting that with multiple space telecom
       | companies ( US + EU + China ) it would potentially mean we would
       | never be able to see space in plain sight ever. At least not
       | without visual pollution.
       | 
       | [0]https://qz.com/1971751/a-flood-of-spacex-satellites-
       | started-...
        
         | caconym_ wrote:
         | SpaceX is taking concrete steps to make their satellites as
         | unobtrusive as possible without significantly compromising
         | their design. Beyond that, this is really a choice between
         | developing space and not. Quit with the FUD about Musk
         | "dodging" questions, etc.--say what you mean, which is that you
         | think pristine night skies should forever take precedence over
         | the economic development of space. Or, if it doesn't sound good
         | stated so straightforwardly, don't.
        
         | Robotbeat wrote:
         | I don't see how anyone who has read broadly on this topic could
         | say with a straight face that SpaceX has been just dodging
         | this.
         | 
         | SpaceX has done more to mitigate visibility of their satellites
         | than any satellite maker/operator in history, with the possible
         | exception of classified payloads. They installed sunshades that
         | reduce the visibility of the satellites when fully deployed (in
         | operational orbit) to below the visibility limit in _almost_
         | all conditions. You have to have exceptionally good timing,
         | eyesight, and dark skies to catch recent Starlink satellites
         | once operational now. But a satellite like ISS is so bright and
         | obvious, you can even sometimes see it in the daytime. (ISS is
         | as bright as all new operational Starlink satellites combined.)
         | 
         | Read this article to see the significant changes they've made:
         | https://www.spacex.com/updates/starlink-update-04-28-2020/in...
        
         | findthewords wrote:
         | Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellite orbits decay rapidly thanks to
         | atmospheric drag.
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | I can't wake up and see the world without loads of buildings
         | and roads and cars in sight either.
        
         | TeeMassive wrote:
         | If you know the position of the satellites it's very easy to
         | mitigate their effect.
        
         | rklaehn wrote:
         | SpaceX has put in a lot of effort to reduce the visual
         | pollution aspect of starlink.
         | 
         | See
         | https://twitter.com/ralfvandebergh/status/136999054076322611...
         | for how the visibility of Starlink sats has changed over time.
         | 
         | For professional earth based astronomy, it is possible to
         | remove the streaks digitally. But of course there is a slight
         | impact. But what is the alternative? Just stop development of
         | low earth orbit forever?
         | 
         | The future of professional astronomy is space based. Imagine
         | what a telescope you can launch with a single starship
         | launch...
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | We could be constantly lifting new observatories to space,
           | launch is no longer the constraint, but satellite
           | manufacturing and cost.
           | 
           | NASA needs the SpaceX equivalent of an org that churns out
           | satellites. The next bus to orbit leaves shortly.
        
             | TeMPOraL wrote:
             | Launch is not a constraint for... about a year now.
             | Satellites have a bit more lag time.
             | 
             | I don't think NASA needs the SpaceX equivalent for
             | satellites - SpaceX itself is causing a boom in satellite
             | manufacturing, so commercial market is accumulating
             | expertise and lowering prices. NASA should find it easier
             | and cheaper to buy or subcontract pieces of satellites too,
             | and focus on bespoke mission-specific hardware.
        
             | shantara wrote:
             | I agree, and this applies to satellite manufacturing in
             | general. Starlink has demonstrated that the new launch
             | cadence requires a switch from single unit and small scale
             | to serial production.
             | 
             | It's unbelievable that we don't currently have standard
             | designs not just for observatories, but for communication,
             | navigation, cartography and other satellite types. Cubesats
             | took a step into the right direction, the same needs to
             | happen for even larger payloads.
             | 
             | Another side of the problem is that NASA budget is heavily
             | influenced by politics and PR. I'm sure there's plenty of
             | smart people there who have realized that from purely
             | scientific point of view, ten or twenty less capable and
             | more disposable interplanetary probes or observatories
             | could have advantage over unique absurdly expensive
             | projects like JWT and Perseverance. But they are not as
             | exciting and harder to sell to politicians and general
             | public.
        
           | hwc wrote:
           | Maybe SpaceX should make it up to the scientific community by
           | promising to (at no charge) put 100T of satellite telescopes
           | in a high orbit every year once Starship is functional.
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | I don't know why you're being downvoted... maybe it's the
             | "no charge" aspect of your post, but SpaceX offering to
             | send up research telescopes for at-cost-of-launch, or maybe
             | a little over, would be a great philanthropic endeavor.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | It would be a great philanthropic endeavor indeed, but I
               | personally have a problem with suggesting they _have_ to
               | do this to  "pay back" to the community. They've already
               | paid back to everyone who ever considers launching
               | anything to space, by cutting off a zero out of launch
               | costs - and they're about to cut off another zero.
               | 
               | Launch costs tend to be a small part of mission costs for
               | bespoke scientific hardware - but what makes those
               | missions expensive is a feedback loop: rare and expensive
               | launches -> need to make best use of the mass budget ->
               | increased complexity -> need to make more robust ->
               | increased complexity -> more expensive -> rarer launches
               | -> more expensive launches. SpaceX just kicked that loop
               | into reverse. With that much cheaper launches, people can
               | afford less robust and less complex missions, and do more
               | of them, which lowers the costs as scale kicks in.
               | 
               | SpaceX is making space cheap. That's already a great gift
               | to everyone.
        
             | rklaehn wrote:
             | That would be awesome PR, and not that expensive with
             | starship.
             | 
             | But for low production rate things like telescopes, launch
             | cost is almost negligible even at current launch prices.
             | 
             | A replacement for hubble could be launched with a single
             | falcon 9. Building it would cost more than a billion.
             | 
             | The James Webb Telescope is at 10 billion USD and counting.
             | Launch with very expensive Ariane 5 will cost maybe 200
             | million USD, so ~2%.
        
           | gbrown wrote:
           | Mirror size is the issue - until we can easily manufacture
           | huge, incredibly precise mirrors in-situ, space based will
           | never replace ground based astronomy.
        
             | iso1210 wrote:
             | There aren't many telescopes with a >8m diameter mirror,
             | and it looks like the largest single mirror is 8.2m
             | 
             | Starship's payload is 8m.
        
             | Robotbeat wrote:
             | It's not manufacture. It's assembly. And I think astronauts
             | are faster and cheaper than robots for in space assembly.
             | Or they will be once Starship is operational. NASA did a
             | ton of work in EVA orbital assembly with Shuttle (and still
             | chooses to do exterior work on ISS via EVA and not purely
             | robotically) but it was always like 10 or 100 times too
             | expensive. Starship ought to change that. In addition to
             | its 8m diameter payload bay.
        
         | Jabbles wrote:
         | Surely they will only be visible a short time before sunrise or
         | after sunset, when the satellite can see both you and the sun?
        
         | jiofih wrote:
         | There are already 1200 of them in orbit, can you go outside and
         | point at a single one?
         | 
         | When this controversy was started they addressed concerns by
         | reducing the satellites reflectance and it seems to have
         | worked.
        
           | tidepod12 wrote:
           | A couple points:
           | 
           | 1) 1200 is a small percentage of the _tens of thousands_ of
           | satellites that the full system, plus the other similar
           | systems will eventually consist of.
           | 
           | 2) Being able to go outside and point out a satellite has
           | absolutely no relevance on the satellite's impact on
           | professional astronomy.
           | 
           | 3) It did not "seem to have worked". SpaceX experimented with
           | reducing the reflectivity of their satellites, but only some
           | satellites have that reduced reflectivity, and astronomers
           | found them to be only marginally better.
        
             | cbozeman wrote:
             | Yeah, and what's going to advance humanity as a whole more
             | significantly, I wonder... high-speed Internet access for
             | the entire planet... or professional astronomers not being
             | able to see into space as easily as they did 20 years ago?
             | 
             | or... Or... OR... Launching massive powerful telescopes
             | into space using SpaceX rockets for professional
             | astronomers to use?
        
               | tidepod12 wrote:
               | I have no idea who you're addressing. If it's me, that's
               | quite a nice strawman you've built. Next time perhaps try
               | to actually address the words written in my comment
               | rather than inventing some boogeyman that nobody brought
               | up except you.
               | 
               | Here, I'll demonstrate:
               | 
               | >high-speed Internet access for the entire planet
               | 
               | Musk himself has said that only a tiny, _tiny_ fraction
               | of the world will ever be able to use Starlink. It is not
               | anywhere close to  "internet access for the entire
               | planet", and certainly isn't providing any more internet
               | access than is already provided by existing satellite
               | internet providers.
               | 
               | >or professional astronomers not being able to see into
               | space as easily as they did 20 years ago?
               | 
               | In case you weren't aware, astronomy is responsible for
               | some of the most significant scientific advancements
               | since for literally millennia. If you really want an
               | answer to your questions, it's this: professional
               | astronomers being prevented from doing research is
               | _significantly_ more of a negative impact to humanity 's
               | advancement than the positive impact from 0.001% of the
               | world having access to lower ping internet. It's not even
               | close.
               | 
               | >or... Or... OR... Launching massive powerful telescopes
               | into space using SpaceX rockets for professional
               | astronomers to use?
               | 
               | Even with something the size of Starship, it's physically
               | impossible to launch anything even remotely close to the
               | size of telescopes needed by professional astronomers.
        
               | genericone wrote:
               | Their livelihoods are under attack, they're going to
               | fight it regardless of the upside of starlink.
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | No different from city light pollution preventing optical
         | telescopes being near cities.
         | 
         | Or radio pollution causing constraints for radio-astronomy.
         | 
         | My guess is that cheap reliable worldwide internet connectivity
         | will help science overall by _far_ more than the costs of
         | modifying terrestrial optical observations to mitigate the
         | extra satellites.
        
       | mempko wrote:
       | On my early morning walk I can see the satellites as very bright
       | (much brighter than the stars) line across the sky. It's clear
       | they didn't do enough about the reflectivity issue.
       | 
       | Edit: Already downvoted for stating a fact. Amazing.
       | 
       | Edit: Changed 'did nothing' to 'didn't do enough'
       | 
       | Edit: Looks like experts still believe reflectivity is still a
       | problem: https://physicsworld.com/a/dark-coated-starlink-
       | satellites-a...
        
         | _Microft wrote:
         | They only adjust to an orientation in which reflectivity is
         | reduced once they have reached their proper orbits. You most
         | likely observed them while they were still boosting themselves
         | to these orbits. The statement that you saw a "bright line"
         | makes it sounds like they were launched recently as they spread
         | out after a while. The boosting process takes a few weeks.
        
         | coiledsnake wrote:
         | > _On my early morning walk I can see the satellites as very
         | bright (much brighter than the stars) line across the sky._
         | 
         | No you do not. Satellites, when visible by the naked eye, are
         | seen as point sources of light. Dots, not lines. One of two
         | things has happened here: Either you saw meteor showers and
         | mistook them for satellites (meteors move fast enough to be
         | seen as lines, not points of light) or you saw long-exposure
         | photographs of satellites online, assumed that is what it would
         | look like through your eyeballs as well, and BSed your story
         | about seeing them yourself.
         | 
         | > _Edit. Already downvoted for stating a fact._
         | 
         | More likely you were downvoted for either being mistaken or for
         | lying.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | "Did nothing" is different from "didn't do enough":
         | https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/2515-5172/abc0e9
        
         | jiofih wrote:
         | How can you tell Starlink from the other 6000 satellites in
         | space right now? That's an amazing skill.
         | 
         | If you saw a tight line of satellites, those have just been
         | launched and are not in their final (higher) orbit.
        
         | topkeks wrote:
         | Are you a TSLAQ retard, because you seem to be complaining
         | about Musk and Tesla in every thread?
        
         | jws wrote:
         | When the satellites are transitioning to their service orbits
         | they are not in the low reflectivity orientation.
        
       | beebmam wrote:
       | I'd like to point out that I'm a big astrophotography nerd. And
       | these satellites are regularly showing up in my long exposure
       | images. It's really quite a nuisance, and I don't look forward to
       | it getting worse.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | gitgud wrote:
         | Interesting, can you share some photos?
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | That's really cool - essentially mission accomplished for
       | reusability. Clearly they're not degrading fast so with
       | optimisation more will be possible
        
       | kjrose wrote:
       | Could someone explain to me how/if this resolves the speed issues
       | that all satellite internet has had since its inception.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Malician wrote:
         | it's a few hundred miles up instead of 22,300. this means that
         | it's not geostationary and you gotta switch your dish between
         | satellites often as they go overhead, but latency is far lower.
        
           | kjrose wrote:
           | Ok, that would make a huge difference. the biggest argument
           | I"ve made against this with people is simply that the latency
           | would be terrible (and it's still not great), but it's a
           | helluva lot better than 22.3k.
        
         | xen2xen1 wrote:
         | And many, many, many more satellites.
        
       | Disgardia wrote:
       | How much is starlink? Hope its cheap, so i can move on from
       | mobile data
        
       | swhalen wrote:
       | These satellites have marred the night sky. There is more to life
       | than broadband availability.
        
         | ragebol wrote:
         | Tell that to the people not on this, or any, forum because they
         | are left behind and don't have any or a decent internet
         | connection.
         | 
         | In I were in that spot, I'd happily trade a few bright spots in
         | the sky for catching up with the developed world.
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | It's disappointing indeed that America's failure to provide
         | rural broadband lumbers the whole world with these satellites.
        
         | sto_hristo wrote:
         | Yeah. City light pollution even more so. Time to deprecate
         | civilization and go back to the caves.
        
         | colinmhayes wrote:
         | There is more to life than the night sky.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Says the guy with broadband availability.
        
       | Disgardia wrote:
       | I'm ready for the high speed it provides
        
       | mabbo wrote:
       | Worth also pointing out: That's the 9th flight of Booster 1051.
       | And it had a perfect landing.
       | 
       | The goal of this design of Falcon 9 is to handle 10 flights with
       | minimum refurbishment. Right now, it looks like they're within a
       | couple months of achieving that goal for the first time, with
       | booster 1049 close as well, at 8 flights.
       | 
       | SpaceX is soon going to reach a point that they don't need to
       | build more Falcon 9 boosters.
        
         | yakz wrote:
         | Wouldn't they want to continue building them to some extent
         | just so they don't lose the institutional knowledge of how to
         | build them? Or is the expectation that Starship will render it
         | obsolete soon enough?
        
           | gameswithgo wrote:
           | Some clients request brand new boosters, and some mission
           | profiles require losing the booster. I think there is no
           | danger of them ceasing to build booster.
        
         | vermontdevil wrote:
         | Saw from one of the Space reporters on Twitter that this
         | booster will do an April launch of another Starlink mission.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-14 23:01 UTC)