[HN Gopher] It Doesn't Work
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       It Doesn't Work
        
       Author : jedisct1
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2021-03-26 11:52 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (00f.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (00f.net)
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | 20 years ago, when I shared some code with the world, because it
       | worked for me and i hoped others might benefit from it; that was
       | all i was doing. Today, it seems, there's implied
       | responsibilities to your users in that situation.
       | 
       | Not only must the code be well organized, run perfectly, and
       | handle all users needs; I myself must be of proper moral
       | character, never have publicly uttered words that could be
       | considered objectionable, and fully willing to endorse the
       | fashionable fascism of the day.
       | 
       | ... I don't buy it. I think that "hey this solves my problem" is
       | viable and code doesn't carry the stain of its creators. We don't
       | need to know or care who wrote our favorite text editor, they
       | might be wonderful people or they might be gnarly gnomes dripping
       | ichor; "here's the tool, it works" is sufficient knowledge to
       | judge the tool.
        
       | Wowfunhappy wrote:
       | About six months ago, I stumbled across a Github repository
       | called Chromium Legacy (https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-
       | legacy). A seemingly unknown Github account had singlehandledly
       | backported Chromium to work on very old versions of OS X. Due to
       | my interests, I was _delighted!_
       | 
       | The port had some major bugs, but I opened Github issues, and
       | they've been fixed by the developer, one by one. In a couple of
       | cases, I helped track down the offending code, but he's done the
       | vast majority of the work.
       | 
       | At this point, I have definitely opened more issues on Chromium
       | Legacy than anyone else. I opened two more just hours ago, and I
       | was going to open a third... but then I didn't, because I was
       | feeling guilty. He's always thankful for the reports, but then he
       | usually _apologizes_ to me (!), which makes me feel like I 'm
       | creating all this work for him...
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Be polite and unexpecting of any fix and do all you can in the
         | report to make it easy to fix and you'll be appreciated (even
         | if just by others who find your report).
         | 
         | People underestimate how valuable a good bug report is - with
         | details, minimum examples, and workarounds. Especially
         | workarounds - as you may be the only useful response people
         | find.
        
       | akavel wrote:
       | Hm; and yes, and no... in my case at least, I personally remember
       | having more of those others - and for which I'm super grateful,
       | they mean _A LOT_ to me - i.e. the likes of, literally:
       | 
       | - The unforgeable _" WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE"_
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18295453 - my all time
       | favourite comment that I don't stop mentioning when telling the
       | story of my project, and that always makes my heart go warm.
       | 
       | - The pure _" Just wanted to give you a thumbs up!"_ 'issue' - no
       | strings attached, no "but [could you do this or this for me]"...
       | https://github.com/akavel/up/issues/14 - plus, for some bonus
       | love, a few follow-ups from other wonderful people... not even
       | counting the people expressing their appreciation via the
       | emoticons...
       | 
       | - A person came back a couple years later and said, they use and
       | like my tool so much, they decided in act of gratitude to give me
       | not one but three logo sketches that I could choose from; then
       | they had enough patience to bear my pickiness until I fortunately
       | finally came back to senses and took the first one of the
       | sketches, which was IMO the best one from the beginning.
       | https://github.com/akavel/up/issues/48
       | 
       | I still would say "yes, and no..." by which I mean, I'm still
       | tired of this project enough that I can't muster strength to get
       | back to it... sure, there were bug reports, and honestly, I
       | understand and appreciate... I would open them too, and I treat
       | them with respect... as I feel treated too (though also I have
       | the fortune to be able to ignore or shut down occasional
       | stupidity or demands). Yet _I am still tired and drained of
       | energy for now for this project_. I sometimes muster a bit of it
       | and improve some small parts. Sometimes. Maybe some day I 'll get
       | enough energy to again put more work in it. To finish some
       | neglected PRs in need of love. So, as much as random demands can
       | be part of the stress, and certainly don't make things easier,
       | especially for some creators; as much as this, I think there must
       | be also other psychological factors at play.
        
       | gwilikers wrote:
       | "It doesn't work" issues are bad for all the reasons described in
       | the article, but the ones that really boggle the mind are the
       | _demands_ people think they can make of maintainers they have
       | zero leverage over.
       | 
       | My favorite in recent history was a developer (who had never made
       | any contributions to the repo, nor even filed the original issue)
       | saying something to the effect of "if this issue is not resolved
       | shortly, we will move our company to use a different software."
       | Talk about threatening the maintainers with a good time.
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | It shouldn't, but it amazes me that developers will do this to
         | other developers.
         | 
         | I was talking generally about JavaScript and another dev who
         | likes to surf the web without JS enabled (more power to him)
         | mentioned how in a given case there's no reason to use JS. I
         | mentioned a side project that I felt kinda fit that use case
         | (in a way). This is an entirely a casual project that has no
         | intent to do much other than explore something myself and uses
         | JavaScript, if folks like it, that's cool, it's free.
         | 
         | I got litany of reasons that person would NEVER use my product
         | that sounded a lot like an angry customer rant.
         | 
         | Entirely free service, and I got a rant for it ;)
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Many people use the same methods for commercial software and
         | open source -- and think threatening to move their non-existent
         | purchases elsewhere will light a fire under someone.
         | 
         | (It often doesn't work for either.)
        
         | nibsfive wrote:
         | I have generally always liked letting customers leave.
         | Ultimatums can easily be two way. If they threaten to quit, I
         | can always fire them :)
        
       | H8crilA wrote:
       | Very real, also within corporations in proprietary code.
       | 
       | One thing helps a lot: you don't owe "them" anything, also when
       | working on proprietary code inside corporations. Don't feel like
       | looking at it? Just ignore the bug report. Literally - don't even
       | read the report.
       | 
       | (If you haven't shuffled through hundreds of poorly formulated
       | issues you may not realize just how much effort that is).
        
         | yaml-ops-guy wrote:
         | _Don 't feel like looking at it? Just ignore the bug report.
         | Literally - don't even read the report._
         | 
         | Presumably this is what product management is supposed to
         | function and give attention to, isn't it-at least to an extent?
         | Or have I misunderstood what those staffers do?
         | 
         | Seems lately I've seen developers frustrated about this because
         | they want to be developers, but the company wants them to be
         | everything and anything more (sometimes, maybe often-times
         | because of poor resource allocation/chronic understaffing on
         | the part of the business) from triaging feature builds to
         | project managing entire releases.
         | 
         | Maybe I've worked at shitty companies.
         | 
         | In fact...now that I think about it.......
        
         | setpatchaddress wrote:
         | More broadly: always set boundaries for yourself. You may not
         | have a choice to ignore the bug in a corporate setting, but you
         | need to be willing to kick issues back to the originator for
         | lack of information and /or lack of willingness on their part
         | to help isolate a way to reproduce the problem.
        
         | deathanatos wrote:
         | > _Very real, also within corporations in proprietary code._
         | 
         | Yeah, I've fielded quite a few internal bug reports that amount
         | to "it doesn't work". My stock response is becoming "what is
         | the symptom you're actually experiencing when you say 'it
         | doesn't work'?"; that _usually_ gets more information.
         | 
         | (The internal ones are perhaps worse, as you are beholden to
         | respond to them, since it's from a coworker.)
        
       | marcosdumay wrote:
       | We lost something when we centralized collaborative development
       | and made it look like a social network (with even gamified
       | activities).
       | 
       | People used to glance over codes of conduct (as in RTFM first,
       | post on such channel, and other practical stuff like that, not
       | like the ones projects are creating today) before contributing,
       | and did so with the intention of interacting for a while.
       | 
       | Projects always tried to remove barriers for casual
       | collaboration, but nobody managed to remove the long-term nature
       | of it before. Now, well, too much of a good thing stops being
       | good. Github finally fully succeeded, and this may be the main
       | reason to abandon the platform.
        
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       (page generated 2021-03-28 23:00 UTC)