[HN Gopher] The forgotten medieval fruit with a vulgar name ___________________________________________________________________ The forgotten medieval fruit with a vulgar name Author : ranit Score : 131 points Date : 2021-03-28 16:02 UTC (6 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com) | abarachant wrote: | Growing up in south of france, we had a few of theses tree | ("Neflier") scattered around the village. I really loved the | fruits as a kid, it was a true delicacy. We had to wait until the | first freeze in december, and pick them off the ground after | bletting. they are really sweet, with a touch of alcool, and one | of the few fruit you can find in the wild during the winter. | | Now the title is a little bit misleading, they fell out of favor, | and not widely available commercially, but definetly not | forgotten. | 11235813213455 wrote: | I live in the South-east, and Nefles/Medlars start appearing | now actually, tend to be ready in May, when they start turning | from yellow to orange. In the summer they're all gone, maybe | we're speaking about different species, I think here those | Nefliers are 'Japan Medlars', so are not in the same cycle | | Persimmons are ready between October and December. Agrums (like | mandarines, clementines) from January to March.Figs in summer | | Basically you can have something to pick all year long, if | people can stop replacing trees by concrete | | Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26612839 said it | all, what I'm talking about are loquats, not medlars, we still | call them "nefliers" though | samatman wrote: | When I was still living in the East Bay, loquats were a | favourite of mine! | | They're planted all over the place, but it doesn't seem that | people eat the fruit anymore. Easy to pick your fill when | they're ripe. They aren't the best eating, but not half bad. | Aloha wrote: | I grew up in Southern California, I remember eating them | lots as a kid. | puzzlingcaptcha wrote: | Do the fruits taste similar? | nkurz wrote: | Not really. At least, if you hadn't been told in advance | that the loquat was also called the "Japanese medlar", you | probably wouldn't think they had anything more in common | than a pear and a plum, or an apple and an apricot. | | Loquats have a mild citrus-apricot flavor and a texture | close to a somewhat meaty plum or cherry. When immature, | they are very tart; when overripe, they are insipid; when | just right, they can be great. | | Medlar are only eaten when "bletted", which means that | they've become browned and spoonably soft. They taste of | overripe spiced stewed apple/pear/quince, although no spice | has been added. When just right, they are "interesting". | kergonath wrote: | Yeah, the angle is strange. AFAIK people never stopped using | medlar, at least in France. I remember my grandmother making | pies, cakes, and jam with it when I was a kid. It might not be | a very popular fruit (it's difficult to sell it when it's | edible, and you'd have to convince people to eat what the' | drake for rotten fruit), but "forgotten" is a bit much. | raarts wrote: | In Dutch there's an expression 'zo rot als een mispel' (as rotten | as a medlar). These days this means 'rotten to the core', so I | was surprised to learn it originated from a fruit that supposedly | tastes wonderful in this state. Although from the Dutch Wikipedia | I gather it's more fermenting than rotting that's involved. | PuddleOfSausage wrote: | > one 18th Century doctor and botanist said that they cause | diarrhoea | | I thought this would have been a prime contributor to its vulgar | name! | PLenz wrote: | The equivlent in North America (in terms of being a once popular, | now nearly forgotten fruit) is the Pawpaw: | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba | crazygringo wrote: | To avoid confusion, the word "pawpaw" means very different | things in different parts of the English-speaking world. | | Outside of North America, "pawpaw" usually means what Americans | call papaya -- and in some countries (like New Zealand) both | "papaya" and "pawpaw" are used to refer to different | _varieties_ of what Americans call papayas. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paw_Paw | barathr wrote: | One issue with Pawpaw is that some varieties have high levels | of acetogenins: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annonacin | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetogenin | | There are some low annonacin varieties: Sunflower, Wabash, | Potomac, Zimmerman, and Wells. | fennecfoxen wrote: | Hmm. Some of us have heard of it via the original Disney | animated _Jungle Book_ , where it cameos in the song "Bear | Necessities" (or is that "Bare Necessities?" Dual meaning and | all that, forget which one is the canonical title.) Anyway, | Phil Harris sings: | | "Now when you pick a pawpaw / or a prickly pear / and if you | prick a raw paw / well then next time, beware! Don't pick a | prickly pear by the paw / when you pick a pear, try to use the | claw. But you don't need to use the paw / when you pick a pear | from a big pawpaw. Have I given you a clue?" | | This may have placed me under the erroneous impression it was a | tropical fruit. | atdrummond wrote: | There are (at least) three fruit known as the pawpaw: | | 1. Asimina (North American pawpaw) | | 2. Vasconcellea pubescens (Mountain pawpaw, South America) | | 3. Carica papaya (Papaya, Africa and Asia) | goodcanadian wrote: | Indeed. When I see "paw-paw," the first thing I think of is | papaya which is indeed a tropical fruit. | londons_explore wrote: | Pears are similar. | | Straight off the tree they are hard and barely edible. | | Pick them from the tree and wait a week and they become soft and | juicy. | Agentlien wrote: | My wife grew up in Belgium and has often mentioned medlar as a | wonderful and absurd delicacy. I never had it and she seemed to | find it strange that I didn't know of it. A few days ago she | excitedly sent me this article. Yesterday we found out her | parents have just planted medlar in their garden. | gumby wrote: | Medlar are also gown in the US; I have a friend growing it in | Vermont, for instance. It's OK. | bitdizzy wrote: | I got a batch of medlars from a farm this last winter! We ate the | first few too soon but the rest were amazing, and very late into | the winter when we dont really have fruit besides apples. I'd | love for these to become mainstream again. | mano78 wrote: | These are... nespole. I have a tree in my garden and we, in | Italy, commonly eat them. A bit disappointed after the intriguing | opening of the article. | | https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mespilus_germanica | saberdancer wrote: | Yeah, I've eaten these. Never knew they were "rare". | ithkuil wrote: | I also have a "nespolo" tree. But honestly I don't know if it's | a european or a japonica variant | marton78 wrote: | Oval, orange, edible in summer? Japonica. Round, brown, | requires frost - European. | greenyoda wrote: | English version: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mespilus_germanica | sdoering wrote: | I also have one in my garden. In German it is called "Mispel". | I wouldn't call it forgotten although I have to attest that | probably only history or plant nerds know of it. | | As we grow a lot of historic varieties of vegetables a "Mispel" | was not so unusual for us. | usrusr wrote: | And living in a region where traditionally all hard liquor is | from trees, the Mispel one happens to be my unquestioned | favorite, after a good meal at the pub. I'd describe the tiny | fruit aroma hint that is usual with fruit liquor as a touch | of marzipan that works much better than I'd expect upon | hearing this description (I'd definitely _not_ be eager to | try something advertised as marzipan liquor). | | Perhaps it's no coincidence that the article doesn't mention | Germany at all, it might ruin the "forgotten" hook. (no you | can't walk into a German supermarket and walk out with a bag | full of Mispels, it's not that un-forgotten) | nkurz wrote: | I think you are confusing the "loquat" with the "medlar". The | loquat is still relatively common, doesn't have a gaping open | end, is yellow to orange, and can be eaten out of hand. The | medlar is darker in color, has a very open calyx, and is | practically inedible direct from the tree. The names are | sometimes confused, with the loquat sometimes called a | "Japanese medlar". Anyway, did yours possibly match this one | instead: http://italywithgusto.com/praise-to-the-italian- | loquat-fruit...? | mano78 wrote: | I don't think so: it's open ended indeed, and the wikipedia | article I linked matches the latin name | nkurz wrote: | You are right that depending on where you are, it could be | either. The English language Wikipedia article for | 'loquat'[1] suggests that Southern Italy uses 'nespolo' for | 'loquat', while Northern uses it for 'medlar'. But if it's | tasty and light orange colored when you eat it ripe | directly from the tree, it's definitely a loquat. While if | it's at all appealing after it's been stored for a few | months and turned brown and mushy, it's a medlar. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loquat | rwmj wrote: | They're not particularly rare in England (although rarely | eaten). You see them a lot in stately homes. And although I | don't live in one of those, I have one in my back garden. | rbirkby wrote: | I had a large tree in the garden of my previous house. I used | to make significant quantities of medlar jelly every year and | give the jars away to family and friends. The house was 400 | years old, but the tree was significantly younger. | Schnouki wrote: | Pretty common in France too: the tree is neflier, the fruit is | nefle. Disappointed too as I could find this with a simple | Wikipedia search... | marton78 wrote: | Yeah. Naspolya. We have them in Hungary, too, although they | have become less and less common over the years. | darkhorn wrote: | I know them as musmula. I didn't know that they were forgotten. | I'm sad that they are not being sold in cities. | Giorgi wrote: | musmala is completly different plant and fruit. | pierrec wrote: | All these quotes form Jane Steward and they never link to her | website. It's nice, makes the fruit look a bit more appetizing: | https://eastgatelarder.co.uk/ | zeteo wrote: | A few months ago I had a jar of medlar jelly shipped over from | the UK via Amazon. It was not cheap but very tasty; the flavor | reminded me a bit of quince jelly, another pretty rare item in | the US. I'd like to have it again sometime, maybe for a special | occasion. | | The rest of my medieval foods bucket list includes purslane and | sorrel. It looks like I'll have to grow both of them from seeds | as I have no hope of buying them from a store anytime soon. | twic wrote: | I haven't had sorrel in ages, but it's amazing. Intensely | sharp, lemony flavour. A classic thing to do is to stuff it | inside a mackerel and grill it. | justincormack wrote: | sorrel is not terribly exciting. I think it should grow from | seed easily. | Turing_Machine wrote: | Purslane, at least, is extremely easy to grow. It can actually | become a weed in some circumstances. | | Quite tasty. I haven't grown it for a few years, but it's on my | seed list now. Thanks for the reminder! | bserge wrote: | Oh, you reminded me of quince jam. That used to be my favorite. | I haven't seen any for over a decade, quince trees used to be | common in my home country, but they fell out of favour for some | reason and very few people grow them anymore. | | Quince jam and quince juice were great. | haroldp wrote: | Quince are naturally very high in pectin, so they were often | grown to be added to other fruit as a thickener in jams. | These days people just buy commercially produced pectin, or | more likely, don't make jam at all. | [deleted] | mprovost wrote: | There are a couple of these trees in my local park in London. I | collect windfall fruit in the autumn. Nobody else seems to notice | all the free fruit! I put them in a box in a closet for a month | or so and then make jelly. It goes a really deep red colour and | has a nice, unique flavour. | thefourthchime wrote: | Fascinating read! I really wanted to try this until I got to this | part. | | A humorous research paper from 1989 gathered together some | classic put-downs, including "At best, it is only one degree | better than a rotten apple" - from a 19th Century gardening book | - and "the medlar is not... worth a turd until it's ripe, and | then it tastes like shit" - reportedly the opinion of an | anonymous medieval author. | robotmay wrote: | It makes a very nice jam, for what it's worth. | kefabean wrote: | Funnily enough I stumbled upon such a tree while out for a walk | in Surrey (UK) last November. Amazed to see a tree laden with | fruit in winter, I loaded my rucksack thinking they were some | kind of strange quince or something. It was only after a bit of | internet research I discovered they were this weird medieval | fruit called a Medlar. Out of curiosity I duly 'bletted' them and | 4 or so weeks later turned them in to medlar-crumble slice. Would | certainly agree they taste "like over-ripe dates mingled with | lemons". A lot of faff, but very delicious! | barathr wrote: | The same process takes place with astringent persimmons. | Persimmons are even weirder because they have four types: | pollination constant non-astringent (PCNA), pollination variant | non-astringent (PVNA), pollination constant astringent (PCA), | pollination variant astringent (PVA). | | That means that some (very tasty) types of persimmon can be | astringent or sweet when hard depending on whether they were | pollinated, which is nearly impossible to tell just by looking at | the fruit. The most well known categories of persimmons, at least | in the US -- Fuyu types (PCNA) and Hachiya (PCA) -- are not | pollination variant. | richk449 wrote: | That explains a lot. I only buy fuyu persimmons now, because | when I have tried the other kinds, they have been inedible - | very astringent. | | Do people do anything with the astringent types? Do they get | better if I wait? | barathr wrote: | You have to wait until they are extremely soft -- then | they'll be very very sweet (and juicy). I tend to only buy | and grow non-astringent persimmons because it's a hassle. | | People also dry them -- there's a whole process for this (one | link among many): | | https://www.umami-insider.com/hoshigaki-japanese-dried- | persi... | modeless wrote: | Weird Fruit Explorer just did an episode on these if you want to | see what they're like: https://youtu.be/IKZsMNfRiRE | | The whole channel is fascinating. Probably my favorite niche | YouTube channel. I had no idea just how many edible fruits are | out there and how strange many of them are. Makes me want to quit | my job and travel around the world finding thousands of weird | fruits to eat. | Giorgi wrote: | I don't know, we have it everywhere in Eastern Europe. Maybe US | did forget it. | Symbiote wrote: | I think it's more likely that one BBC journalist and their | friends hadn't heard of it, because they don't sell it in | Waitrose. | | They can make a whole series of articles, as they "discover" | damsons, greengage, quince, mulberries, gooseberries, etc. | | (Between my parents, grandparents, and places like the car park | at the back of my mum's office, we picked all of these in | England.) | | There are plenty of results on British websites for medlar | trees (for gardeners) and recipes for the fruit. | ardit33 wrote: | Looks like Albanian muc-molla | | They are very tasty, and can be eaten like a mini apple or pear. | They taste like a combination between a pear and an apple. I used | to have one in my home/garden. | | ...it is the baby of the rose family. This little tree produces | small fruits in brown to rust color. | | These fruits are similar to those of the wild rose, but larger in | size. | | https://www.classlifestyle.com/news/39341/mucmolla-shqiptare... | nkurz wrote: | Your link isn't working for me, but this video confirms that | muc-molla is indeed the same fruit as medlar: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpgCdAXb-Xo | ardit33 wrote: | thanks, fixed it | adrian_b wrote: | That is the Turkish name of the medlar. | | This name is used in many Balkanic countries. | Ericson2314 wrote: | From the original article | | > It's still widely grown in Iran, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, | Georgia and Turkey, where it's sold in markets as musmula. | | Yup, that's the same word. Thanks, Ottomans. | hcho wrote: | The word is actually of Greek origin. Who spread it is | difficult to tell. | [deleted] | twic wrote: | I knew it would be the medlar before i clicked! Perhaps i spend | too much time reading about rude fruit. | | Anyway, it's a great little fruit, makes superb jelly and cheese | (ie jelly with pulp, like a very thick jam). Somewhere between | plum and date in flavour, perhaps. | | I have a jar of my father's medlar cheese in the fridge, might go | and pop a bit on some cheese ... | pjsg wrote: | Medlar trees are not that hard to come by in the US -- I have a | couple in my orchard -- one is really prolific and we make a fair | amount of medlar jelly each year. I hadn't realized that medlars | were not that well known! | rahimiali wrote: | The article says the medlar is "musmula" in Persian. Maybe, but | if you're Iranian, you'll more likely know it as "marmala". | Reading this, this sounds oddly like "marmalade", which according | to Wikipedia, comes from the Portuguese. But unlike the English | version of marmalade, which is made from citrus, the original | Portuguese is made from quince, an Asian fruit. My guess is this | was actually initially made from marmala, and quince as only a | variant. What a wonderful etymological chase through the name of | a fruit. | yellowapple wrote: | That both fruits are in the _Malinae_ subtribe and both | typically need bletted before they 're edible lends credence to | this hypothesis. | riffraff wrote: | the italian word is "nespola" and the latin is "mespilus", so | probably there's some shared indo-european root with "musmula". | everyone wrote: | Theres a medlar tree growing in Waterford city (near the Bishops | palace) I know an old guy who picks the fruit from it and makes | jam. Out of curiosity we picked a couple once, left them for a | long time and tried them. They were ok. | nkurz wrote: | Wow, what a great article! And it links to one of my favorite | botany papers every written: "The Medlar (Mespilus germanica, | Rosaceae) from Antiquity to Obscurity" by John R. Baird and John | W. Thieret, Economic Botany Vol. 43, No. 3 (Jul. - Sep., 1989), | pp. 328-372 (45 pages) | | https://www.jstor.org/stable/4255177 | | https://sci-hub.do/https://www.jstor.org/stable/4255177 | | I read this by chance when it came out, and for a long while | couldn't figure out whether it was a parody or a real scientific | article. The whole story seemed so vastly improbable: a vulgar | fruit central to Shakespeare that we've mostly forgotten about | today, unable to be eaten until it's been rotted in sawdust for a | few months --- pull the other one! Anyway, if the BBC article | whets your interest in the medlar, you should definitely check | out the full article. It's a gem. | dan-robertson wrote: | To be clear the 'bletting' process isn't really rotting. There | isn't bacterial or fungal decomposition. Instead it is enzymes | within the fruit which slowly react with and transform it. This | isn't wholly dissimilar from normal fruit ripening which can | happen after the fruit has been picked. | whyenot wrote: | Yes, it's not rotting, just ripening, the same as the process | (astringent) persimmons. Describing it as "rotten" is being a | little overly dramatic. | Angostura wrote: | My favourite line from the article: "The process is known as | "bletting", a word made-up by a botanist who noticed there | wasn't one in 1839." | fy20 wrote: | How is this different from ripening? Many commercial fruits | are picked unripe, then during transportation (it takes | bananas up to two weeks to travel from South America to | Europe) they ripen off ready for sale. | ksherlock wrote: | Or dry aging beef. | notorandit wrote: | We have a similar fruit in southern Italy. It's from the sorbus | genus. It used to be consumed (almost) rotten during the months | of December and January. | Turing_Machine wrote: | Sorbus trees are usually called "rowan" or "mountain ash" in | English. And yep, they also need bletting to be at their best. | | Mountain ash is a popular landscaping tree here. Birds | (particularly waxwings) flock to them in winter when there's | little else to eat (and presumably when the fruit has become | less bitter, thanks to bletting). | DonaldFisk wrote: | Another Sorbus species is the Wild Service Tree, or Sorbus | torminalis. The trees grow in England. The fruit is the | chequerberry, which also needs bletting before it's edible. | The flavour's similar to tamarind. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-03-28 23:00 UTC)