[HN Gopher] Coinbase Announces Listing Date of Its Stock on the ... ___________________________________________________________________ Coinbase Announces Listing Date of Its Stock on the Nasdaq Author : esalazar Score : 84 points Date : 2021-04-01 20:11 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (blog.coinbase.com) (TXT) w3m dump (blog.coinbase.com) | superfrank wrote: | There was a time when would have loved to buy Coinbase stock. | | Just a few years ago, they were by far the easiest was to buy | crypto (IMO). At that time they also felt like the most | legitimate site and for people who didn't 100% know what they | were doing, but wanted to buy some Bitcoin, that perception of | legitimacy is important. For those reasons, I feel like they kind | of dominated the casual coin holder space, and I think they could | justify the fees they were charging. | | In the last year or so it feels like that's all changed. Because | of things like Apex Crypto, it feels like pretty much every stock | broker app will now let you buy Bitcoin and they'll do it with | lower fees than Coinbase. It seems like their market (non-crypto | people looking to buy crypto) is being eaten alive. I don't | understand their value prop or why their higher fees make sense | anymore. | | I've been burned too many times, so I don't short stocks or buy | puts, but I just can't see this being a good buy. Unless they | drastically lower their fees, I just don't see them continuing to | grow users. | ryanSrich wrote: | Not to mention that Coinbase doesn't really serve a strong | purpose anymore. Why not just use a DEX? | xienze wrote: | Well first, how are you gonna get Eth or whatever to use that | DEX? Some apps have payment options but hoooo boy are the | fees outrageous. Coinbase doesn't have the best fees in the | world but just mosey on over to Coinbase Pro and it's a whole | lot better. | | Then there's the gas fees on Uniswap. Not even worth | bothering with unless you plan on making $1000+ trades. | | The other thing to consider is that for newbies they offer a | safe platform with a list of established coins. That counts | for something. | miglmj wrote: | High fees and lack of a fiat on ramp are two big reasons | rawtxapp wrote: | I agree with you, I think their coinbase pro fees are | relatively reasonable, but I just don't see why anyone would | use the "normal" coinbase, the fees are very high, I suspect | it's probably name recognition, ease of use and trust. | Black101 wrote: | Many Stock brokers like Webull let you buy crypto, but you | can't transfer them to your wallet or use them to make | purchases. Also, they claim no fees, but they add the fee to | the spread (the spread is artificially increased to 1% both | ways (2% total)) ... so it is like a hidden fee that ends up | being more then what you pay on Coinbase, especially if you | trade a substantial amount each month [1]. So Coinbase is still | one of the best even though they can't handle the loads when | the market get busy. | | 1. https://i.imgur.com/IohYn4o.png | superfrank wrote: | > Many Stock brokers like Webull let you buy crypto, but you | can't transfer them to your wallet or use them to make | purchases. | | Fair, but I feel like most people I know aren't using crypto | as a currency right now. They're more interested in holding | or speculating on the price, so transferring to another | wallet is a non-issue. | | > Also, they claim no fees, but they add the fee to the | spread (the spread is artificially increased to 1% both ways | (2% total)) | | I'm not up to date on Coinbase's latest fee structure, but I | think 2% still may be less than, or at least comparable, to | what they are charging. Even if it isn't, the illusion of no | fees will attract a certain amount of people. | | > especially if you trade a substantial amount each month | | Do people trade a lot using Coinbase (serious question)? I | was under the impression that there were better platforms out | there more suited to day/swing trading crypto. | Black101 wrote: | The maximum that you can get charged at Coinbase is 1% for | a buy & sell transaction pair (0.5% each way), if you don't | trade much... so half of webull : | https://i.imgur.com/IohYn4o.png | | But it goes down quickly. It gets cut in half if you trade | $50k/month and goes to down to 0% if you trade a lot. | tedunangst wrote: | For reference, coinbase is currently quoting bid/ask for | bitcoin at around 58/62... | gruez wrote: | That's their quote for casual users. You get much tighter | spreads on coinbase pro. | tedunangst wrote: | I think that's the right comparison for webull or | robinhood. | Black101 wrote: | I get $0.01 spread on Coinbase pro unless the market | activity is going crazy. | perardi wrote: | What's "Apex Crypto"? | | I am not being obtuse or sarcastic here. Is it this? | http://apexcrypto.com Because that website tells me nothing at | all. And past that, Google only shows a few press releases. | | - | | But on the consumer crypto coin collector criteria, it still | seems like Coinbase has the mind-share. And I imagine they have | the reach and scale to be in compliance with regulators, which | is what makes them a more attractive investment. | | Me? Square's Cash app is awfully slick, and makes buying | drugs...I mean...buying non-fiat currency to stick it to the | man all very easy. But I have no idea if people use that | feature frequently. | superfrank wrote: | > What's "Apex Crypto"? | | Apex Crypto is a crypto clearing house, similar to the | clearing houses we have for the stock market. Companies like | Robinhood, WeBull, SoFi, etc aren't building their crypto | trading infrastructure from the ground up. They're plugging | into services like this, which handle the exchange between | fiat and crypto and a lot of the regulatory compliance. This | drastically cuts down the complexities and lowers the barrier | to entry for offering buying and selling of crypto. | | I don't know all the details of the services they offer, but | services like this are the reason it seems like every app | under the sun will now let you buy and sell crypto. | gruez wrote: | >Apex Crypto is a crypto clearing house, similar to the | clearing houses we have for the stock market | | Is this the same "Apex" that handles clearing for stocks? | rawtxapp wrote: | > But I have no idea if people use that feature frequently. | | Looks like they made 4.57B$ in revenue with 97M$ in profit | [1]. And "We've continued to see strong adoption, with 3 | million customers [buying bitcoin] through the past year, and | in January we saw 1 million new to bitcoin in just one | month." | | 1: https://www.coindesk.com/square-cash-app-bitcoin-revenues- | sw... | tedunangst wrote: | It's a bit odd to count that as revenue. Like Robinhood | counting their entire trade volume of $350 billion as | "revenue". | rodonn wrote: | Unfortunately under US accounting rules you have to do it | this way in your financial filings. | woobar wrote: | But bigger brokers (in fact, much more than just brokers) | like Merrill ($18B) or Schwab($10B) do not report their | transaction volume as revenue. | gibybo wrote: | I think the bull case may be more about their future sources of | revenue. If crypto succeeds, exchanging it with fiat may end up | being only a relatively small amount of the economic activity. | Traditional brokers are not likely to be able to compete with | Coinbase in those future markets. | | Of course it's really hard to predict what those future markets | might be or how much value Coinbase will be able to extract | from them, so I have no idea if $68 billion is a reasonable | valuation. | vmception wrote: | So I don't get that impression because the trading fees are a | sideshow. | | Coinbase Vault is providing access and liquidity to the whole | DeFi market without ever saying it. | | Its like not investing in Amazon because you didn't notice AWS. | The similarity being limited to there being a non-consumer | facing product that might be bigger than the visible one. | Coinbase has a lot of growing revenue streams, which has almost | nothing to do with the retail platform of non-crypto people | looking to buy crypto. | thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: | How is the opening stock price decided on a direct listing? | | Is there a way to put in orders for a ticker before it has | opened/been listed so that you can purchase at 9:30 on the 14th? | woobar wrote: | RBLX just did a direct listing. They set a reference price at | $45. Later in the day (they did not start trading until midday) | the reference price was adjusted to $60. I had two limit | orders. One from day before at $50, another placed at noon at | $62. None of them executed, since it opened at $64+. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _How is the opening stock price decided on a direct listing?_ | | Same way every stock does every morning: the opening cross [1]. | | [1] http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/Trader.aspx?id=OpenClose | an_opabinia wrote: | Look for an order type called "limit on open," or its | radioactive cousin, "market on open." | | The reason people don't do this is, that kind of order requires | having an opinion about what a stock should be priced at. And | retail traders basically never have that opinion. | tfang17 wrote: | Coinbase has been using Morgan Stanley's Shareworks platform to | manage the direct listing, which has been a nightmare to use. ACH | transfers take over a week and the platform has a ton of | technical issues. | an_opabinia wrote: | In my experience, financial literacy is so poor and Dunning | Kruger so high that typical non-finance human beings constantly | blame the process for extremely basic mistakes, like sending | money between accounts of different titles but saying that you | own both of them. | | Even the word "title" would detonate the average person. | gibybo wrote: | This sounds like a case of blaming the user for poor UX | design. If the users that the system is designed for are | constantly making the same "basic mistakes", then the system | isn't designed well for them. | BenoitP wrote: | I think it is spelled Dunning-Kruger. | tfang17 wrote: | I'm a pretty experienced trader and worked on the Payments | team at Coinbase, dealing with ACH, wires, and whatnot. If | it's hard for me, can't imagine what the platform is like for | others. | | Coinbase has an alumni Slack filled with complaints on | Shareworks. | frakkingcylons wrote: | > Coinbase anticipates that its Class A common stock will begin | trading on the Nasdaq Global Select Market under the ticker | symbol "COIN" on April 14, 2021. | 3327 wrote: | Lmk when i can short. | fredfoobar wrote: | If you want to short a stock, you should at the very least do | some due diligence and read the article before you comment. | freerobby wrote: | April 14 | westpfelia wrote: | typically options dont get written for a few months until | after | tedunangst wrote: | Should be able to sell short the day of, but locating | borrows may be difficult depending on who's holding it. | vmception wrote: | If you have direct market access and a clearing house you | can do whatever you want, its the reliance on brokers | that limits all the other market participants | andy_ppp wrote: | The answer is April 14th for those too lazy to read the article. | Melting_Harps wrote: | I hope the GME crowds short the living hell out this thing... | thirdlamp wrote: | Would've been interesting if they'd IPO through some crypto | means, like on ether or something | cecida wrote: | Despite what Crypto Bros say, all they really want is to get | filthy rich with real money. | wsinks wrote: | I know it's wrong and this is likely a low level comment | but... | | Crypto Bros -> CryptBros -> XD | base698 wrote: | Real lambos and houses. No one wants dirty fiat. | [deleted] | brian-armstrong wrote: | If anyone has fiat lying around causing them problems I'd | be happy to take it off your hands. I'm certified for | proper fiat handling. | Melting_Harps wrote: | > If anyone has fiat lying around causing them problems | I'd be happy to take it off your hands. I'm certified for | proper fiat handling. | | You can't be trusted not to manipulate the Bitcoin | market, as you just got fined; your customer service is | abhorant and you keep shutting down accounts and trades | for no explicable reason. Why would anyone trust you with | anything at this point is beyond me. | | I want you personally to know that YOU and Coinbase (and | what it represents) are the bane of Bitcoin and all of HN | and YC should know that. | vecter wrote: | You've got the wrong Brian Armstrong. | jklinger410 wrote: | Yeah man, we all love the petro-dollar. | Hermel wrote: | Yes, this is a missed opportunity for crypto. Unfortunately, | securities and exchanges for securities are so heavily | regulated, that it is very hard to try something like this with | a "fail fast" approach and we will probably have to wait for | quite a while until we see such markets happen, if at all. | | To me as a computer scientist, it is astonishing that even | something as simple as a web service that matches willing | buyers and sellers of securities requires a license that costs | millions of dollars to obtain. | gruez wrote: | >Yes, this is a missed opportunity for crypto. Unfortunately, | securities and exchanges for securities are so heavily | regulated | | Makes sense, given the ICO craze back in 2017. | wj wrote: | About a decade ago BATS tried to IPO on their own exchange | and failed pretty spectacularly. Coinbase probably doesn't | want to "fail fast" with their IPO when there are billions on | the line. | fredfoobar wrote: | The reason is the SEC. Look into stokr.io. | CamelCaseName wrote: | There's a reason access to capital markets is somewhat | restricted. Investors are going to get fleeced. | | I only wish the SEC (or the European authority) had more | bite, as stokr absolutely deserves to be shut down. | nikanj wrote: | Never get high on your own supply | julee04 wrote: | is this april fools? | perardi wrote: | 1. No, because if a company announced that the SEC had given | them go-ahead to go public "for the lulz", that company would | then be in deep shit with investors and the SEC for the rest of | time. | | 2. No, because that wouldn't even be a funny joke. | | 3. No, because we are done with April Fools, the internet drove | that into the ground looooong ago. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _is this April fools?_ | | No. Why would it be? Coinbase has been preparing to go public | for some time now. | atkbrah wrote: | Because it's April 1st. | swixmix wrote: | https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1679788/00016282802 | 1... | [deleted] | qbasic_forever wrote: | Honest question, why is Coinbase listing on the NASDAQ (edit: | tangentially also NYSE)? If their whole business model is | predicated on the success of crypto-currency shouldn't the whole | world of fiat currency be completely irrelevant and a | distraction? | TedDoesntTalk wrote: | > why is Coinbase listing on the NYSE | | I don't think you read the article, let alone the headline. | [deleted] | qbasic_forever wrote: | Pedantic point. | | Question remains... | loceng wrote: | My guess is they need to allow mainstream investors to get | some of their eggs in the Coinbase-Bitcoin basket, so then | they can really ramp up and involve the VC-Finance | Industrial Complex to further buy into the MLM-Ponzi | scheme. | | Edit to add: Your 3 downvotes have convinced me, especially | because most certainly they didn't come from users | financially incentivized for Bitcoin to gain popularity. | eej71 wrote: | They are listing on NASDAQ. Though they will be tradable on | NYSE as well. | ac29 wrote: | The VCs that gave them many dollars would like their investment | (and hopefully, profit) returned in dollars. | qbasic_forever wrote: | Ahh, there's the real reason. So why do the VCs want fiat and | not crypto returns? | nostromo95 wrote: | Well, (a) just because they invested in Coinbase, which | does crypto, doesn't mean they have as much confidence in | crypto as they have in Coinbase--betting on Coinbase is a | bet on the volatility of crypto + Coinbase's ability to | win, not a bet on the price of crypto, (b) you have to pay | taxes in dollars, (c) their investors probably want | dollars. | kgog wrote: | At a minimum, that's a signal for the future of | cryptoCURRENCY. :) | oh_sigh wrote: | Nasdaq, but in any case coinbase is predicated on crypto | interacting with the normal banking/fiat world. They're | basically in the middle ground. They aren't crypto-denialists | who say crypto will go to zero. They aren't crypto-bulls who | say crypto will replace all currency in the near future. They | see crypto as coexisting with the existing banking and finance | sector. | vmception wrote: | The US markets have the most liquidity and access and users | compared to all markets in the world, including crypto markets. | errantmind wrote: | Not from what I've seen. Binance (Intl) has a lot more | liquidity than any US specific market, mainly because they | offer derivatives | sjg007 wrote: | What happens when the US bans Bitcoin? | sk55 wrote: | What makes you so confident that the US will ban bitcoin? | | Also, if the US bans it then it's still valuable in much of the | rest of the world. Bitcoin is antifragile in that regard. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-04-01 23:01 UTC)