[HN Gopher] Show HN: Clayoven - beautiful website generator aime...
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       Show HN: Clayoven - beautiful website generator aimed at math-heavy
       sites
        
       Author : artagnon
       Score  : 93 points
       Date   : 2021-04-04 12:12 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | timdaub wrote:
       | I made something similar with KaTeX and Markdown. Mine is plain.
       | 
       | Demo: https://timdaub.github.io/SSRP/
       | 
       | Source: https://github.com/TimDaub/ssrp
        
         | eddieh wrote:
         | I went with Org-mode and KaTeX, unfortunately there's a bug
         | with Org-mode where it doesn't insert the trailing space after
         | inline LaTeX. I never got around to fixing it. I did try to
         | make mine "beautiful" or at least pleasing to myself.
         | 
         | Demo: https://eddieh.github.io/stix-org/
         | 
         | Code: https://github.com/eddieh/stix-org
        
       | egonschiele wrote:
       | Neat project! Beauty feels like an under-explored part of
       | programming. It's neat to see how a language can be designed to
       | be more expressive for a particular use case. I wouldn't make a
       | call to use a piece of tech at work just for beauty but I
       | certainly do that all the time in my personal projects.
        
         | preommr wrote:
         | Am I reading something wrong? I thought they meant it outputs
         | beautiful websites, whereas your comment seems to imply that
         | it's the code/(library api) that's beautiful.
        
           | artagnon wrote:
           | Outputting beautiful designs is a function of the css, no?
           | The bundled css is quite minimalist, and it comes packaged
           | with a relatively simple starter website.
        
             | Kiro wrote:
             | I also thought you meant the output was beautiful and
             | thought it was strange that there was no demo or example
             | showing it.
        
       | drran wrote:
       | I use Marker[0] markdown editor, which has built-in support for
       | MathJax and KaTex for math, and Jekyll, to render my blog to
       | GitHub.
       | 
       | [0]: https://github.com/fabiocolacio/Marker .
        
       | cseleborg wrote:
       | The adjective 'beautiful' for software is increasingly becoming a
       | turn-off for me. Perhaps with the exception of Sublime Text,
       | there is no software that I routinely use for its pleasing
       | aesthetics. I'm more interested in fast, intuitive, pragmatic
       | software. Beautiful makes me thing that other, more important
       | things have been given lower priority.
       | 
       | What exactly makes Clayoven beautiful? It seems to have a great
       | niche purpose. Shouldn't the first adjective be something related
       | to what math users would value?
        
         | artagnon wrote:
         | Yes, it's not the fastest ssg; there's Zola for that. However,
         | digging git history with `git log --follow` can take a moment,
         | and the MathJaX server-side rendering takes 10 seconds on a
         | math-heavy site. However, incremental builds are the default,
         | and a full-rebuild is seldom necessary. What makes it beautiful
         | is the following:
         | 
         | 1. You don't have a metadata header, like in most SSGs;
         | timestamp is picked out from git-history, and topics/subtopics
         | is simply picked out from the folder structure.
         | 
         | 2. The syntax is terse, and features like un-numbered lists is
         | excluded on purpose, because mathematicians like to number or
         | letter everything.
         | 
         | 3. The implementation of claytext is simple. There is no
         | complicated markdown-processing, and even hard-wrapped lines
         | are not allowed.
         | 
         | 4. There's a dedicated vscode extension for auto-completing
         | MathJaX. It also triggers a build-on-save, so you can just save
         | changes in vscode and refresh the browser to see the changes.
         | 
         | 5. Server-side rendering of math, so that the client isn't
         | burdened with executing heavy javascript. It actually uses a
         | custom fork of XyJaX to achieve this for commutative diagrams.
        
           | enumjorge wrote:
           | Websites are largely a visual medium so when you use the word
           | beautiful most people are going to assume you're describing
           | the visual aspects of the sites the tool generates, not the
           | tool itself. And I get that beauty is subjective, but when
           | you give terseness and arbitrary lack of features such as
           | unnumbered lists as reasons for why it's beautiful, it's a
           | little strange.
        
         | nitsky wrote:
         | > Shouldn't the first adjective be something related to what
         | math users would value?
         | 
         | "Beauty" is very important to mathematicians. Check out the
         | Wikipedia article on the subject:
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_beauty
        
           | zem wrote:
           | perhaps more relevant is how knuth literally took a decade
           | off from writing his books to write a better typesetting
           | system.
        
           | anon_tor_12345 wrote:
           | but not this kind of beauty. first sentence of the linked
           | wiki
           | 
           | >Mathematical beauty is the aesthetic pleasure typically
           | derived from the abstractness, purity, simplicity, depth or
           | orderliness of _mathematics_.
           | 
           | not of the type setting of mathematics (that's just regular
           | plain old aesthetical beauty).
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | The problem is hyperbole. "Handsome" or "highly-readable" would
         | be more apt.
        
         | wrycoder wrote:
         | Looking at the blog post on linear algebra, the line spacing
         | seems a bit jammed in the presence of the inlined math.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Yeah, besides beauty being quite subjective, mentioning beauty
         | as the primary differentiator gives the impression that utility
         | is less of a focus. In today's environment where there's an
         | abundance of new software lacking depth and maturity, promoting
         | the "beauty" (whatever that is) of a product is more often an
         | indicator of just that.
        
         | abhinav22 wrote:
         | I think it is okay in this instance as it relates to an output
         | generator (and beautiful output should be a key functionality
         | of such a tool)
        
         | antihero wrote:
         | > What exactly makes Clayoven beautiful?
         | 
         | It's written by a Ruby dev? :P
        
           | le-mark wrote:
           | Indeed, one does not see open source java projects self
           | promoting as "beautiful", nor many others languages (Python
           | jinga?). Reasonable to assert the Use/misuse of the adjective
           | based on that imo.
        
       | zeroonetwothree wrote:
       | The demo doesn't look particularly beautiful. Not that it's bad
       | but just not what I would think based on the marketing.
        
       | Ecco wrote:
       | I've been much happier using KaTeX over MathJax. Indeed KaTeX can
       | actually be rendered server-side. This prevents an ugly flash of
       | unstyled content on math-heavy pages.
        
         | artagnon wrote:
         | KaTeX doesn't do commutative diagrams, unfortunately.
        
         | singhrac wrote:
         | Have you tried MathJax 3? I found the render speed was the same
         | recently.
        
       | loloquwowndueo wrote:
       | Doesn't look very carefully crafted for something they claim to
       | be "beautiful".
       | 
       | > There is no published gem. To get started, clone, run bundle to
       | install the required gems, and put bin/clayoven in $PATH.
       | 
       | Yuck? Is it so difficult to package and publish a gem these days?
       | Did the author not find time to do so in the years they've been
       | working on this project?
       | 
       | > To start writing, install vsclay for vscode, which will provide
       | the necessary syntax highlighting, IntelliSense support for
       | MathJaX, and trigger-[incremental build]-on-save functionality.
       | 
       | What about integration with other editors? Will my "beautiful"
       | experience be ruined if I happen not to use vscode?
       | 
       | Definitely looks like a very "scratching my own itch" kind of
       | project - worth sharing but the adjective used to present it
       | sounds like an overstatement.
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-04 23:00 UTC)