[HN Gopher] Writing advice should stop targeting people who hate...
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Writing advice should stop targeting people who hate to write
Author : enkiv2
Score : 53 points
Date : 2021-04-07 14:40 UTC (8 hours ago)
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| solidist wrote:
| Some years into habitual writing, this is all I've got:
|
| https://dev.to/solidi/recognizing-remote-romantic-bibliophil...
|
| It guess what I learned is that each piece is about a "concept."
| Say it clearly. And enjoy it years later by reading it again. And
| finally publish something, no matter how small once monthly.
| paperwasp42 wrote:
| I'm part of a writing group that consists of 10 published
| authors. Of the 10, 8 absolutely despise writing first drafts.
|
| Those 8 constantly groan about having to sit their butts in the
| chair and get the words down. There's a common mentality of, "I
| hate writing, but I love having written."
|
| But those 8 members have landed several major deals, had movie
| rights sold, hundreds and thousands of copies sold, etc. And
| perhaps more importantly, they've gotten letters saying that
| their work changed people's lives for the better.
|
| So although I personally fall into the "I love writing in all its
| stages" category, I have no problem with other writers talking
| about how much they hate it. Those people create some of the best
| work I've ever had the pleasure of reading. If it takes some
| moaning and groaning to make it happen, then so be it.
|
| That being said--I will reserve my right to tease them about
| their moaning and annoy them with my undying enthusiasm. :)
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| What makes you feel more favorable towards first draft in
| comparison to your friends. Is it a mental model that you've
| adopted? Some interest in screwing around before composing in
| earnest? No multi-million dollar contracts or other stressors
| hanging over your head?
| SiVal wrote:
| That's fascinating. Are they writing what they want to write,
| or are they only writing for the money or adulation?
|
| I've written commercially, but not at the rarefied level of
| your cohorts, and I've never wanted to make a career of it.
| I've always wanted to write well, but I've never had to rely on
| it to make a mortgage payment, much less to establish my place
| in the world, and I've often wondered if that explained the
| fact that I _don 't_ hate writing first drafts.
|
| If I need to fix a toilet because a fixed toilet is needed, I
| like having fixed the toilet but might not enjoy fixing it. But
| if I'm creating what I want to create--writing or painting or a
| software project--then I feel like creating it, not just having
| created it. But for some it apparently is more like fixing very
| valuable toilets.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| If you write, and like to write, why would you seek advice about
| how to write?
| Veen wrote:
| For the same reason people who like to paint seek advice about
| painting and people who like to program seek advice about
| programming. Writing is a craft. You can learn how to do it
| better (although not usually from books about how to write
| well).
| atoav wrote:
| As someone teaching at art school and who worked and works as a
| freelancer in all kind of creative professions (VFX, graphic
| design, programming, sounddesign) I think the best advice you can
| give to anyone in any creative profession is:
|
| Learn to switch hats. When you have your writing hat on, put your
| critic hat, your editor hat, your publisher hat, etc. down. Make
| space for the other hats in times when you don't feel like
| writing. Same is useful for music, film, painting, design, art.
|
| The thing is: it is really easier said than done. Most people
| constantly worry about other domains when they work on their
| things. Sure, let some ideas of how you want your work to be
| published flow into your writing, but don't _worry_ about it. You
| can still worry later when you read the text again with a
| different hat. Or you could have worried about that before you
| started writing. Worry about writing, about which phrase to use
| to convey what, worry about where you want your text to develope
| and how fast.
|
| The mastery of this type of very conscious context switching is
| hard, because nobody is going to tell you which hat you need to
| wear when and for how long. Nobody will tell you which hat is
| more important, and which you better leave to others. It is a
| very individual thing, but one thinking about really pays off in
| the long term.
| marcinzm wrote:
| I feel it's because a beginner is a mostly blank slate so you can
| give generic advice without need to understand their personal
| context. Someone who is proficient will have strong context
| (areas they're strong in, weak in, like, dislike, etc.) so advice
| should be tailored to them. Writers may also not actually be
| cognizant of their own context so can't self select specific
| tailored advice books. Which is why there's historically been
| writing workshops, editors, proofreaders, etc.
|
| Curious how off the mark I am in my thoughts.
| exolymph wrote:
| Hey you! Nice to see your work on the front of HN. That said, I
| disagree with the thrust of your thesis :) I'm a professional
| writer, it's pretty much my only monetizable skill as well as my
| passion, and writing first drafts is like pulling teeth. It's
| arduous and I rarely enjoy it in the moment. Very satisfying when
| I'm done and get to show off the result, though! I am exactly
| that cliche about "hate writing, love having written." This is
| not exactly an uncommon sentiment among writers, either.
| jeffwass wrote:
| I'm curious how you feel about editing.
|
| For me, I do enjoy writing the first draft, even when I don't
| know how or where many scenes will go. It's definitely hard
| work, but enjoyable, especially when I get into the moment.
|
| But editing, on the other hand, I don't look forward to.
| exolymph wrote:
| To me editing still feels chore-ish but to a much lesser
| extent, and sometimes I'll have fun doing it.
| ghaff wrote:
| Editing is tedious--especially in the later "how did this
| stupid error make it this far?" stages. But it's definitely
| _easier_ to start from some sort of foundation for me. That
| said, this is mostly with respect to editing my own writing.
| For editing the work of others, I definitely find there 's
| sometimes this uncanny valley where I can't just say "this is
| trash" but I also can't say this just needs a bit of TLC
| either. And that's really frustrating because you sort of
| want to respect the original writer's work, but it really
| isn't very good.
| tayo42 wrote:
| I think this is just because most self help/self learn topics
| focus on beginners or people who like the idea of starting. It's
| easy for the writer to get a win. You don't need to be an expert
| to write something targeted at beginners. Like in programming,
| that's why we have endless "how to write your first todo app in
| ..." and not "how to maintain and organize a 10k loc application
| with 5 co workers all trying to fuck it up"
|
| If you like to write, you're already writing, you're not a
| beginner anymore I would think. I think the same thing could be
| written as we need more intermediate and advanced advice.
| tunesmith wrote:
| Any general advice on how to find a writing group, for
| intermediate writers that are past the beginners stage? I'm
| thinking of people that are perhaps beyond the nanowrimo and
| fanfic stages, that are comfortable with dialogue and
| characterization, that can string together some fun scenes and
| short stories, but aren't published writers.
|
| I personally have been having fun over the past year writing a
| branching novel with some friends. I know I've personally written
| more than 50k words with all sorts of characters and twists and
| turns and satisfying conclusions, but I feel like I'm plateauing.
| I've thought about joining one of my local meetup.com writing
| groups but I get the sense they'll take anyone and I'd rather be
| the weakest writer in the room. Well, maybe second-weakest.
| cableshaft wrote:
| My wife had some luck taking a couple of courses by established
| writers, who had their own private Facebook group you can join
| afterwards. Seems like most of the people who are willing to
| pay a few hundred dollars for the course are more serious about
| wanting to make a career of it.
|
| I belong to a local writer's group, and except for a short
| story anthology that gets put out every year (and I participate
| in sometimes), it's pretty clear that 90% of the people in the
| group are never going to put forth the effort to probably ever
| even get a self-published book out there.
|
| And they definitely aren't serious enough to spend any money to
| have any success. Can't even get them to chip in $15 apiece to
| pay to get a decent looking book cover so the anthology might
| grab some eyeballs and their stories get more readers.
| datavirtue wrote:
| This guy likes writing too much. "bryonic??"
| User23 wrote:
| Sounds like he's a fan of the Count of Monte Cristo.
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