[HN Gopher] Onboarding with an M1 ___________________________________________________________________ Onboarding with an M1 Author : ingve Score : 139 points Date : 2021-04-17 10:48 UTC (12 hours ago) (HTM) web link (authzed.com) (TXT) w3m dump (authzed.com) | qwertox wrote: | I wonder how much extra work Apple is generating audio companies | like Native Instruments. | | I've been hoping for years that they would start supporting | Linux, but I've settled with the fact that this won't happen. | | If one year ago one would have asked NI if they plan to support | ARM chips, they would probably have laughed at you, but I'm sure | that they now have already started working on this, now that | Apple has forced them to. | tshaddox wrote: | I know there's already a decent amount of pro or at least "pro- | sumer" audio production software on iPad. I don't know if those | are totally separate products and codebases from Intel PC, or | if some of these companies have already done the work to make | their stuff portable. | coldtea wrote: | > _I wonder how much extra work Apple is generating audio | companies like Native Instruments._ | | Proportional to the business they expect to get from M1/Arm. | | > _I 've been hoping for years that they would start supporting | Linux, but I've settled with the fact that this won't happen._ | | They'd have to have their codebase already compatible by a huge | percentage (like BitWig, which was a fresh start from ex- | Ableton folks) for that to happen (that is, it would have to | require minimal effort to do it as a good will gesture that | costs them nothing to just build and offer for the ocassional | buyer). | | Else, it would be lots of effort not really justified by | expected sales (as only a tiny share of musicians use Linux, | and they're generally not the "buying commercial DAWs/VSTs | types"). | syntaxing wrote: | Honestly, the Mac M1 should support two screens via USB-C. But | for those having issues like I did, an ultrawide screen is the | "best" solution. A 35" + Rectangle (or any tiling window manager | of your choice) has been a killer combo. | waheoo wrote: | Once I moved to dual screen tiling I don't think I could ever | go back. | | Same level of productivity boost as dual screen windowed was | back in the day. | clashmoore wrote: | As mentioned in the epilogue regarding single monitors, I feel | that Apple was a little too silent regarding that limitation. | | It also caught me off guard especially as I purchased the LG 4K | thunderbolt/usb-c monitors from the Apple website with the hope | of connecting everything via daisy chain. | | I haven't yet definitively found a DisplayLink hub that can | output its video via thunderbolt and/or USB-C so whenever I see | articles about M1's and developer setups I happily check in to | see if anybody has found a setup. | Stratoscope wrote: | I wonder if the single monitor limitation is a hardware or | software issue? | | The reason I ask is that my ThinkPad X1 Extreme can only handle | a single external monitor running any recent version of Ubuntu, | but on Windows 10 I run it with two or three external monitors | with different scaling factors. I've used either a ThinkPad | Thunderbolt dock or currently a Cable Matters mini-dock with | two DisplayPorts and one HDMI. | | So I gave up on Linux on the hardware and run it in a VMware VM | under the Windows 10 host, or under WSL2 depending on what I'm | doing. | [deleted] | Nextgrid wrote: | If your objective is to use two monitors side by side, couldn't | you find a device that presents itself as an ultra-wide monitor | (combined width of both monitors) and allows you to connect two | monitors on the other end? | MertsA wrote: | No, that'd be a problem with the dock and menu bar straddling | the two monitors. Not to mention maximizing a window would | split it between monitors. | hpoe wrote: | Couldn't the newest generation of a device not remove what | are considered standard features from their device especially | when it costs more than anything on the market and it's big | selling point is that it "just works"? | rvz wrote: | > I feel that Apple was a little too silent regarding that | limitation. | | That's the whole point. It's about what Apple doesn't tell you | that matters, which I have said before [0]. Especially for a | new product announcement and release, which is why I don't | immediately buy their products because everyone else is hyping | it everywhere. | | Now they are discovering the pitfalls and foot-guns later on | after purchasing it, whilst I enjoy my trusty old Intel Macbook | that can connect to more than one monitor. | | I guess when Apple announces a M1X / M2 Macbook, the reviewers | will be telling you that _' It's not worth buying if you | already bought into M1'_. If that's the case, they are right, | since you're now at a sunk cost _IF_ you wanted multi-monitors | on your M1 Macbook Air. | | What's better is that you wait for the next generation so that | you don't fall for buying into Apple's limitations in their new | products. | | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26327064 | rgbrenner wrote: | They did tell us though. It's listed on the tech specs: one | monitor on the m1 laptops; 2 on the mini. That's why I bought | a mini. | Closi wrote: | Agreed, as an M1 user and usual multi monitor user this is a | big limitation! | | Realistically I'll look at investing in an ultra wide soon to | offer similar screen real estate. | | We also have a Lenovo laptop that we bought two of for our | admin staff in our office to only find out afterwards multi | monitor support was missing (despite having enough ports for | it)... it's a shame that this isn't considered standard. | wslh wrote: | That is why I think Dell XPS 13 is top: three external | monitors via a Thunderbolt TB16 and a desktop experience only | plugging a single cable. | | This is not to say that the XPS 13 is perfect (need to change | battery every two years in all the notebooks at the office | and the notebook gets hot) but the notebook is great in many | other factors. | dijit wrote: | FWIW (and, anecdotally); my company just started rolling | out XPS 13's and had to stop as they are overheating | constantly. | | Instead, people are going to be getting latitudes. | tinco wrote: | Our product has a webgl component, and the XPS13 would | constantly crash Ubuntu when the webgl view was open. It | was so unworkable the developer switched to windows with | WSL2 just to have a stable environment. | | Which is annoying because the whole reason I was buying | XPS laptops for our devs was supposedly good Linux | support. Maybe the laptop was overheating? | andrewmackrodt wrote: | I have the XPS 13 2-in-1 and the thermals under Windows | leave a lot to be desired. It's possible to apply a small | undervolt and increase the Intel turbo limits which | significantly improves performance while being able to | run with the balanced fan profile. If anyone wants my | ThrottleStop config I can upload it to pastebin. | | I run Ubuntu day to day and it has much better | performance and less fan noise (presumed better thermals) | than Windows. | MobileVet wrote: | This was such a pain... we tried several combos and dongles. | In the end we found this to work for driving the 2nd monitor. | | Startech Dual Display Port adapter | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C69HG33/ | | We have noticed that the refresh rate on the second monitor | isn't great... but it works and isn't horrible for | developers. | | Edit: and we also have this due to the lack of ports (Thanks | Jony) | | HyeperDrive USB C Hub https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUAEI7J/ | waheoo wrote: | +1 for startech. Thunderbolt should be able to drive dual | 4k at 60. Haven't used with the M1 but have with ThinkPads. | rainbowzootsuit wrote: | Perhaps a EGPU via thunderbolt would work? (Not that GPUs are | so readily available right now, but just to get N monitor | ports as needed offloaded) Have you investigated that at all? | | I recently ran into something somewhat similar of needing | "active" displayport adapters to connect more than two | monitors at a time to a video card. | FroshKiller wrote: | M1 Macs do not support eGPUs. | rainbowzootsuit wrote: | Ah ok. Would be functional for the Lenovo presumably. | | Another possibility is a device that merges monitors' and | then presents as one to the computer intended for video | walls.. I know of the ones that Matrox makes but might | need windows to setup. | | https://www.matrox.com/en/video/products/video- | walls/quadhea... | aulin wrote: | I suffered more about having to trash my perfectly fine fullhd | monitor(s) that worked great with linux until the day before, | just because they decided to drop subpixel hinting with latest | macos versions. Now I need 5-6 times more pixels to get | comparable font rendering | eyelidlessness wrote: | I'm also still mourning the loss of subpixel AA with my | primary display being 4k@1x. For several versions of macOS it | was removed from the System Preferences UI but still | available with a defaults command, but I'm pretty sure that's | gone now too. | mistersquid wrote: | I understand the lack of multi-monitor support in the M1s is an | issue. But just after the launch of the M1, I came across a | video that demonstrated an M1 Mac mini driving six monitors. | [0] There is also a short write up about that workaround, for | those who don't want the video. [1] | | There are similar workarounds for the M1 MacBoooks. [2] | | Is this a reasonable workaround until Apple provides M1 | hardware that can run more than 1 monitor out of the box? | | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jLAwSvs7vE | | [1] https://www.slashgear.com/m1-macs-can-run-up-to-six- | displays... | | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzPKfn746Zs | runjake wrote: | #2 is using a DisplayLink device to run multiple monitors. I | presume the other videos do too. | | There's no trick or way around this on an M1-equipped Mac. | Something else will be handling the graphics. | | DisplayLink generally works excellent for running most apps. | It does not work well where you're pushing a bunch of bits at | the screen rapidly, eg. First person shooters or high | definition video. | | That said, one of my DisplayLink monitors is used for IP | camera feeds, and while the little traffic light on the USB | dongle is blinking incredibly fast, I don't notice any | stutters. | | Everyone already knows about this and the author mentions | this in their post. | n42 wrote: | DisplayLink is a software encoded and compressed video stream | that the hardware dongle decompresses on display. The | experience is not great on my M1 MacBook Air. Sometimes it | doesn't work and I have to plug/unplug, DisplayLink doesn't | support refresh rates higher than 60hz, and you have to keep | their software running in my task bar for it to work, and | there are occasional visual artifacts. If you're planning to | use your M1 in a multi-monitor setup, I suggest waiting for | Apple to support it natively, especially if you're doing any | kind of design work. | | If you occassionally just want to plug in to multiple | displays, it can bridge the gap. It's no substitute for a | dedicated workstation. | hedgehog wrote: | There are also compatibility issues with ultrawide monitors and | DDC support is missing (so there's no way to do brightness or | volume for external displays). The new machines are still | better for most people but as always evaluate before upgrading. | misnome wrote: | Yes, very silent. We ordered a replacement for my old work | machine and only realised that limitation after - too slow to | stop the purchase order. We've ordered an ultrawide monitor to | compensate. | | I feel the "Pro" label is somewhat misleading, and has | definitely damaged my trust further. | Tagbert wrote: | If you get the ultra wide and have trouble getting the | resolution setup you might need SwitchResX. It let's you | override the default resolutions with custom ones. Some of | the ultra wide monitors support resolutions that are not | expected in the default setup. | FroshKiller wrote: | The specs page for the Pro on Apple's site was up front about | this and still is. Check it out here: | https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/ | | Scroll down to Video Support and see: "One external display | with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz." | | When I was making a buying decision back in November, the | limited external display support came up in every analysis & | review I read. I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, | but I genuinely don't know how you missed this. | nsxwolf wrote: | A lot of people missed it. No one expects features to be | removed from the latest and greatest model. | tasogare wrote: | Looking at the number and type of ports is a pretty good | indication that features are being removed. I love the | 2015 form factor: retina, good keyboard, thin enough, 2 | USB-A, 2 Mini-DisplayPort, 1 HDMI, jack, SD card port, | MagSafe. I wish a M1 model with an equivalent enclosure | would be produced. | barkingcat wrote: | It's called wishful thinking with blinders. | | What? The M1 MacBook Pro is not the magical device with | no compromises??? | | People were way too enthusiastic and purposely skipped | over any weaknesses of the form factor. | | People were claiming that it was capped at 16G ram | because there were no purpose for having 32G ram (it was | amazing to see the hacker news technical set reclaim Bill | Gate's "640K ought to be enough for anybody" and "1 | monitor is enough for every use case"). | | There are no perfect computers. Even Apple has to | compromise. They were clearly stated but people just | didn't want to accept that the M1 isn't a perfect | computer that could do everything. | NetOpWibby wrote: | Thank you | hobs wrote: | Apple didnt have to compromise here, but did - they've | definitely sold customers on the "everything just works" | approach, and so updating those details and then | expecting all the customers who were literally sold on | the concept of not having to check on all the details to | check them... interesting approach. | | My mother bought a new macbook m1 with me telling her | about the monitor stuff and she cant even get her 1080p | normal external to work with the dock that the apple | store sold her. | barkingcat wrote: | This is an extremely entitled viewpoint. I'm not sure | which "Apple" you are talking about, but as far as my | experience has been for the last 20 years of Apple | computers, Apple is the _king_ of forcing consumers to | compromise. | | Do you want 256G ssd size or do you want the upgraded | processor or memory size? Do you want 2 usb-c ports or 4 | usb-c ports? do you want touchbar or no touchbar? | | Apple has market segmentation and compromise down to a | science. Apple computers have been forcing people into a | compromise for their entire history. Want more features? | Give more money. need that money for rent? ok buy the | 256G version instead that you can't upgrade because | everything is soldered in.... you have more money? pay | for 512G version. | | And in the dock's case - that's always been the case | where apple will happily charge you more money to get | certain accessories to work properly. (want this | accessory to work? you gotta get the right adapter! oh | that old adapter won't work, you gotta get a new one for | 80$! oh sorry even with an adapter that old dock won't | work anymore, you gotta get the right interface! usb-c vs | thunderbolt vs firewire vs usb-c 4!) | supermatt wrote: | Take the dock back. I've tried 4 or 5 different ones, and | the only one that was any good is the caldigit ts3+. If | it's not DisplayPort/usb-c video output then the dock is | using some converter internally that messes everything | up. | | It's definitely an Apple issue, but the specific problem | can be worked around by basically not using hdmi (I | appreciate we don't all have that luxury :/) | supermatt wrote: | I'm not aware of anyone (except those using VMs) who are | complaining about the memory. I personally went from 16gb | to 8 and don't miss it. Do you actually own/use an m1 | Mac? | dijit wrote: | I am not using VMs (unless you count the JVM or | something) and I regularly exceed 16GiB of ram. I | offloaded my docker VM to another machine because it was | so bad. | | For context I regularly have open (what I consider to be | standard apps): | | * IntelliJ IDEA (Pycharm or Clion, never both) | | * Slack | | * Chrome | | * kitty (20 or so terminals) | | * Outlook | | * yabai & bartender | | * littlesnitch & adguard | superchink wrote: | Have you gotten yabai to work on the M1? | smoldesu wrote: | I have an M1 Macbook Air with 8 gigs of memory, and it's | definitely a bottleneck for me. I haven't even thought | about trying a VM on it... | barkingcat wrote: | Yes I am using one. | | There are workloads that don't fit into 16G ram. Even | with paging, there are legitimate needs for 32G and | beyond memory sizes. | supermatt wrote: | What specific workloads? If you bought a 16GB machine to | keep 32GB of data in RAM then clearly you bought the | wrong machine. But I am able to run WAY more applications | in 8GB than the 16GB intel Mac I had previously. | rovr138 wrote: | > But I am able to run WAY more applications in 8GB than | the 16GB intel Mac I had previously. | | Then your limitation clearly wasn't RAM. | supermatt wrote: | Memory management is different on the M1. This has been | widely discussed. | rovr138 wrote: | "management" is important. | | It can't make it appear out of thin air. If you _need_ | 16GB of ram and only have 8GB, you will run out of | memory. | eertami wrote: | If it works for you, it works for you. | | However in 2021 I am not interested in a computer with | less than 32GB ram. Sure, I could work around the | limitations and close not in use programs/tabs to avoid | going OOM, or using swap, but life is short and memory is | cheap. I'd rather not have to worry about it. | fiddlerwoaroof wrote: | I was similarly skeptical, but my old laptop died on me | so I had to replace it. My M1 MacBook Pro is a better | laptop for me as developer: my 16" 2019 MBP with 32GB of | RAM I got from work has performance and memory issues | (mostly too many open browser tabs) more frequently than | my personal M1 laptop. | [deleted] | supermatt wrote: | So why did you buy one? | FroshKiller wrote: | No one expects a brand-new hardware platform to have | different capabilities from other devices in its class? | numpad0 wrote: | A lot of people weren't aware that multiple displays | through single DisplayPort connector is hardware, not | software, capability | e-clinton wrote: | It's not "brand new hardware", it's just another MacBook | Pro. Being a MacBook Pro, I expect a keyboard, trackpad, | screen... and the ability to plug-in monitors, just like | every other MacBook Pros has for however many years. | | They shouldn't have called it a pro. | Tagbert wrote: | These first M1 models replace the very low end of the | MacBook Pro line, not the full line. They replace the | versions with the slowest processor and only two USCB-C | ports. That is why the rest of the MacBook Pro line still | exists waiting for the next performance version of the | M-series chips. | [deleted] | themolecularman wrote: | Same here. Even right now as a type this I have my 2nd | external monitor sitting next to the one I'm staring it, it's | just off though. | | Another commenter mentioned finding a video showing that it | could in fact be "hacked" to use more than one external | monitor. I tried purchasing the specific DisplayLink products | in the video and still wasn't able to have success :( | random5634 wrote: | Also commenting on single monitor support - a key note I missed | from original reviews and maybe a reason to wait till more pro | models come out? | chipotle_coyote wrote: | If it's important to you, I'd say wait. | | Something that's been missed a lot, I think, is that the Intel- | based 13" MacBook Pro actually came in two versions -- a two- | port one with a less-capable, low-power processor and a lot of | limitations that made it more like a juiced-up Air, and a four- | port one which was much more like the 15" MBP. The current | M1-based MBP is direct replacement for that two-port model, and | is now _absolutely_ just a juiced-up Air; there 's very little | that the M1 MBP does that the M1 Air doesn't. | | And, yes, the Intel version of the MacBook Pro But Really | Juiced-Up Air, or MBPBRUJUA for short, could run two external | 4K displays or one external 5K display, while the M1 MBPBRUJUA | can only run one external display (although for the ones and | ones of you out there with 6K displays, good news!). I would | _presume_ Apple knows this is a regression and plans to address | it, at least when they update the four-port MBPs. | | Personally, I'm not convinced the MBPBRUJUA is going to stay | around past this product cycle; it's always struck me as a | laptop in sort of a weird middle space, too big to make people | who really want an Air happy but not "pro" enough to make, | well, actual pros happy, and the shift to Apple Silicon brings | the Air and the MBPBRUJUA so close together the only material | difference is the case design. I can't help but suspect that | the only reason we have an M1-based MBPBRUJUA is so Apple could | tick off the "shipped an ARM-based laptop with a MacBook Pro | nameplate in 2020" box. | tyingq wrote: | I wonder how well the litany of terrible apps that you typically | have to run in a corporate environment are doing on M1s. | | Things like Cisco's Anyconnect VPN, MS Teams, Active Directory | Auth, and so on. | auslegung wrote: | From the article, https://doesitarm.com and | https://isapplesiliconready.com | tyingq wrote: | Both of those seem pretty binary, like "rosetta yes/no" or | "works yes/no", and don't seem to have a way to say something | like "works, other than split tunneling", etc. Or, as pointed | out in another comment, "disrupting Sidecar". | rovr138 wrote: | Some do on doesitarm.com. | | Example, | | https://doesitarm.com/app/photoshop/ | | > Known Issues | | links to https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop- | for-apple-sil... | w0de0 wrote: | "Active Directory Auth" is a native part of macOS, though there | are third party directory services auth mechanisms like Nomad. | tyingq wrote: | Yes, and it already acts odd with password resets, etc. I | wouldn't be surprised to see new issues with a native M1 | port. | w0de0 wrote: | No, I can say it's gone pretty well. Both the Kerberos SSO | and directory services bind/network accounts work exactly | as expected. As you say particularly mobile accounts have | always sucked for managing passwords especially for a | mobile workforce, but that problem has gotten no worse! | | Source: am macadmin for startup | Telemakhos wrote: | MS Teams runs beautifully on my M1. Cisco Anyconnect now | installs a bunch of network filters instead of a single kext, | but it works. The only programs that run poorly are Apple's own | Mail app (often hangs on quit) and Safari (has crashed the | whole Mac a few times). | varjag wrote: | Cisco Anyconnect has a nasty habit disrupting Sidecar. | Jcowell wrote: | Yeah I was lucky enough to just use a RD gateway instead of | the Cisco VPN so that Sidecar wasn't disrupted. | edgan wrote: | I just got a new System76 laptop for work. I have used to Lenovo | P Series in the past. The System76 laptop has a Nvidia GPU. For | ports it has HDMI and Mini DisplayPort. I was expecting dual | 4k@60hz to work, but instead got 4k@60hz via the Mini DisplayPort | and 40@30hz via the HDMI. The reason is the HDMI is tied to the | Intel GPU, not the Nvidia GPU. | | The laptop also lacks Thunderbolt, which would provide more port | options. | f6v wrote: | M1 is such a smooth ride. I didn't expect everything would just | work. I use R and Python for computational biology and didn't | have a single issue with installing packages. | vetinari wrote: | Did you try pandas? Anything that requires cffi? | f6v wrote: | Pandas works fine for me. But it's a moderately sized data, | below 100k rows. Dask works as well, though I can't judge the | speed. | Jcowell wrote: | How did you install pandas without any work around? (Mini | forge, building from source, making a Rosetta terminal) | f6v wrote: | I just used conda and it sort of get installed? I don't | remember any issues around it. My only observation was | that conda resolved dependencies lightning fast compared | to MBP 2019. | stu2b50 wrote: | (Not OP btw) | | While I'm not sure if it's building from source or | pulling a binary, just pip3 install pandas seems to work | just fine. Not a Rosetta terminal. | | Just ran a fresh install from a new poetry venv, seemed | to work fine. This was the poetry output | | Using version ^1.2.4 for pandas | | Package operations: 3 installs, 0 updates, 0 removals | * Installing numpy (1.20.2) * Installing pytz | (2021.1) * Installing pandas (1.2.4) | vetinari wrote: | Since there's no arm64 binary on pypi, it downloads | source and builds locally. | | For some reason, the pip building is failing for me | (python@3.9 from homebrew, all non-brew packages in | --user). However, if I download the source and do the | bdist_wheel manually, it succeeds and produces | installable wheel. | | Cffi is unbuildable without a patch, it is failing on | symbol ffi_prep_closure being non-existant. | stu2b50 wrote: | Huh. I haven't had any issues with libraries that use | CFFI. | | I've had issues with pip and building from source being | incredibly fragile before (in general, not an M1 specific | thing), so I'm not that surprised, but unfortunately I | don't really have any answers here. | | The scientific calc package + cffi have installed | normally since I got the M1 (mid February). | | I did have an issue with PyQt5, where I had to link qmake | in my .zshrc before it would build properly (and it had | an incredibly unhelpful wheels error message), but that's | been it so far. | ttul wrote: | I am looking forward to the hopefully near term arrival of an | "M2" based iMac. I use an M1 Air and it has been a dream to use, | but fundamentally I prefer the power that you can tap from a | properly ventilated desktop. | otterley wrote: | The M1 Macbook Pro has active ventilation, FWIW. | probotect0r wrote: | Is everyone using the 16GB version of the M1? Or is the 8GB | sufficient? | Nextgrid wrote: | 8GB is fine for me but I do all my development natively - no | Docker nor VMs. | eknkc wrote: | Only issue I have is that dotnet does not support m1. The beta of | version 6 does but I had several issues with it and dotnet 5 runs | slow as hell on rosetta. | | Otherwise everything works just fine. | cjblomqvist wrote: | Good to know! Thanks for commenting! | bhouston wrote: | I am using a MacMini M1 as my main development machine | specifically to get around the single monitor limitation of the | first gen M1 laptops. It is cheaper than a MacBook Pro as well, | so it is a win all around. | | Edit: I do use one HDMI and one display port (from a USB c | connector.) I drive both 4K monitors at a full 60hz. It is | beautiful. | throw14082020 wrote: | Its not a real win because you're using 1 HDMI, 1 usb-c | display. The HDMI display is limited (low framerate, bad | integration with the display). At best i call it a workaround | vetinari wrote: | It is HDMI 2.0, so no problem for 4k@60. | TwoNineA wrote: | I got 2 LG 4k monitors plugged into my Mac Mini M1, one USB-C | (43 inch), and one HDMI (27 inch rotated). In both cases the | Mac runs them at 60 hz, the 43 inch slightly scaled and the | 27 inch around 1440p scaling. If I put them at full | resolution (unscaled) they still run at 60hz. | edgan wrote: | I think you mean Thunderbolt not USB-C. Thunderbolt ties | into the GPU, but USB-C doesn't. | kelchm wrote: | USB-C is simply the connector format -- which can then be | used as either USB 4 or Thunderbolt 3. The highest speed | USB 4 devices are effectively the same as Thunderbolt 3 | from what I understand. | | I really do sympathize with any consumer who has to try | to make sense of what a given port is actually capable of | these days. | B1FF_PSUVM wrote: | The Chuwi Hi10x is a nice enough Windows tablet - sort of | a cheap and cheerful Surface, but really a grandkid of | the Asus T100. | | It is powered with a 12V, 2A charger via one USB C port | (and just one of the existing two). But try to use a | standard USB-C PD charger, and nothing happens. However | it does charge with a plain 12V charger, sporting a USB C | jack, that does not require PD negotiation ... | | I'm coming to think that having one connector for | everything may not be easy ... | bhouston wrote: | I am confused generally. My old Dell xps 13 didn't have | thunderbolt but I could still use the exact same USB c to | display port cable that I used on my Mac mini. | | I am unsure if you need thunderbolt specifically to use | USB c to display port cables. It seems you do not need | thunderbolt but I am not an expert. | ryukafalz wrote: | > I am unsure if you need thunderbolt specifically to use | USB c to display port cables. It seems you do not need | thunderbolt but I am not an expert. | | Correct, you do not need Thunderbolt for this. Most | laptops with USB-C support something called DisplayPort | Alt Mode, which is essentially DisplayPort over the | type-C connector; I'd imagine that's what those cables | are doing. | | Now, if you have a Thunderbolt display specifically, like | the ones Apple used to sell? Your type-C port would need | to support Thunderbolt to use that. | vetinari wrote: | If you are using USB-C in alternate mode, it means that | you forego everything else: with USB-C cable, you can | basically use USB2, power delivery and (USB3 or alternate | mode) at the same time. | | Funny things happen when the alternate mode is | Thunderbolt. It allows to tunnel DisplayPort and USB3 | traffic, so when you are using TB alt mode, you still | have usable DP and USB3, not USB-C natively, but | packetized inside TB3 traffic. | | For 2x20 GBit TB3 traffic, you need much better cable | than what the average USB3/USB-C cable can handle (that's | the reason why they are sold as TB cables); if it is | anything above 0.5m, it is usually active one. And to | make things even more interesting, there are USB-C cables | than cannot handle even USB3/alt modes... so it is | important to check the specs, not only price tag. | danieldk wrote: | _If you are using USB-C in alternate mode, it means that | you forego everything else: with USB-C cable, you can | basically use USB2, power delivery and (USB3 or alternate | mode) at the same time._ | | Incorrect. Perhaps with a low-end adapter, but with a | higher end dock (and sufficiently modern hardware that | supports DP1.3) you can drive 4k@60Hz [1], USB 3.2 Gen 2 | 10Gbit/s, USB 2, and PD at the same time over a single | USB-C cable. For example, the Lenovo USB-C Dock Gen 2 | that I use does this without any issues. | | The configuration is that two superspeed lanes are used | for USB 3.2. The other two superspeed lanes are used for | DP-Alt, which have 8.1Gbit/s bandwidth per lane with HBR3 | for a total of 16.2, which is perfectly fine for 4k@60Hz. | You can even do higher resolutions with DSC (though I am | not sure which, if any, docks support this). | | [1] Or lower resolutions/refresh rates with HBR2. | aulin wrote: | how deep is your desk to be able to use all that screen | real estate? I already suffer eye strain with my 34 4k as | it's already too high | FpUser wrote: | Not Mac user but here is my experience with multi- | monitor. I used to have 2 32" 4K monitors at full | resolution. One was pivoted to vertical specifically for | coding. My main desk resembles an airfield so space wise | it was ok. However recently I found myself tired to turn | my head and body when shifting attention between two. I | am back to just a single 32" 4K. The other monitor went | to a different computer. | jsjohnst wrote: | I'm using standard office sized standing desks (40"x60"). | On my "work" desk I have two 27" LG5K displays side by | side with the laptop off to the side. My second | "personal" desk has two 27" Apple Thunderbolt monitors | stacked vertically with two 34" LG ultrawides turned | vertically on either side of the stacked 27". No eye | strain or neck issues with either setup. | waheoo wrote: | Why is the HDMI limited? Old version? Latest HDMI can run 4k | 60 no problem. | throw14082020 wrote: | Sorry, my M1 mac mini doesn't push out the 165Hz, it maxes | out at 60Hz. Sure this is the average refresh rate most | people ask for, but this is also the max the mac mini go. | | My display is a Qhd (2560 x 1440) | tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote: | HDMI, at least in the Mac mini 2018, is lossy compressed | which shows itself in bleeding colors / slightly blurry 4K. | bhouston wrote: | I believe HDMI can only send uncompressed video data. It | can support compressed audio but not compressed video. | wayneftw wrote: | Every time I read one of these reviews it makes me so glad to be | using a desktop PC with Manjaro. Things I need to do just all | work for me, no surprise limitations, no worrying about how long | an irreplaceable battery or SSD will last and no constant battle | with some corporation over who controls my computer. | | I don't get people who would want to optimize for working on a | train or a plane or in a meeting either. My desktop is in a quiet | room where I do work stuff and I easily get more compute per | dollar too. | Toutouxc wrote: | > worrying about how long an irreplaceable battery or SSD will | last and no constant battle with some corporation over who | controls my computer | | You really need to understand that this is nothing but a | strawman. | | I'm a M1 Air user. I'm currently worrying about how I'm gonna | express some business logic in my app, not about some imaginary | "irreplaceable" battery or an SSD. If anything breaks in the | first two years (which probably won't happen), I'll have the | machine or the part replaced for free. If anything breaks after | the second year, well, I can either have it repaired or just | get a newer Mac with the total cost of ownership of the old one | being firmly below $50/month, which is laughably low for a tool | that puts food on the table. And that's in an ex eastern bloc | country where the average monthly wage is around $1300 net. | | > My desktop is in a quiet room where I do work stuff | | Mine too, in my bedroom, where I have a desk with a 43" screen | on it. With the laptop connected in clamshell mode. Or on the | couch. Sometimes I go to the office. Sometimes I go to | meetings. And a laptop allows me to use a single machine for | all that, ain't that great? | rovr138 wrote: | > And a laptop allows me to use a single machine for all | that, ain't that great? | | It's AMAZING. | | I have servers, raspberry pi's. I work locally and push to | wherever I need. | | I work from home, sometimes from my office, sometimes from | the couch. Sometimes I went out to coffee shops or the | library. I sometimes gotta hop on a plane and go to the | office where I switch between desks, conference rooms, | offices. I travel to visit family. | | A single device allows me to just close the lid and keep | going. It's amazing. | jbluepolarbear wrote: | Has anyone tried using a Wavlink 4K USB-C docking station with | the M1? I use it on my intel Mac Pro and windows desktop and it | works like a champ. | jamesgeck0 wrote: | Nope, but I do use the Wavlink USB 3.0 to HDMI 2K Adapter with | a USB-C adapter in one port and a Hgore HG-HB007 adapter hub in | the second port. It's a mess of cables, but it works great with | two external monitors hooked up. Quite a bit cheaper than a | full docking station. | tastyminerals2 wrote: | I always wonder why ppl do not use MacPorts? There was a great | article on HN which basically drew a pretty clear picture how | brew can easily mess your system up. Yet, being a new Mac user, | wherever I go, I only see a reference to brew installs. I am | using M1 for a over a month and it's been a very smooth ride so | far. Installing everything via MacPorts where I only had an issue | with rabbitmqd which failed to build because of erlang. | novok wrote: | I was using macports before brew really existed and switched | over the brew because you didn't have to waste time compiling | everything all the time and dealing with breakage. The CLI was | also much nicer to use with little bits of whimsy. | | Brew was a big timesaver back then (maybe now too if macports | is still in 'compile everything' mode) and that is the key | reason why it became the dominant package manager. Nobody has | 'moved back' because macports isn't 'better enough' to induce | people to switch over like they did with brew originally. | atkbrah wrote: | I've always considered macports/brews as last possible solution | for problems on macos because you eventually end up with broken | system. Luckily you can run most of the stuff on a remote linux | with containers. | havernator wrote: | I switched to Brew back in... oh, 2012 or 2013, I think, | because I was sick of MacPorts breaking itself horribly during | normal operations (installing/uninstalling) every 3-6 months. | Brew's huge package selection, rare breakage (sometimes on OS | upgrades, usually easy to fix), decent UI, and ability to also | manage nearly all the closed-source software I install, have | kept me from bothering to look at MacPorts again. | kitsunesoba wrote: | Similar here. I'm sure MacPorts has improved since then and I | should probably give it a spin next time I have a fresh macOS | install, but back in the late 00s and early 10s not only did | I have issues with it breaking itself, but also constant | issues with packages not compiling/installing, or if they did | crashing due to some dependency issue. | | At that point in time I was a lot less technically capable, | so on the rare occasion googling the issue would turn up a | relevant mailing list archive, I usually wasn't able to act | on it and I'd wind up procuring the package in question | through some other method or just doing without. | | So when Homebrew came along and most things installed and ran | fine with the rare issue that cropped up getting fixed fairly | quickly, it easily stuck. | rcthompson wrote: | I had a similar experience. I started out with macports, | which seemed more familiar to me as a user of Linux package | managers. But macports kept breaking in weird ways, until I | finally tried homebrew, which didn't break. That was years | ago, so maybe macports is better now, but homebrew has never | given me a reason to switch away from it. | anaerobicover wrote: | I have completely the opposite experience; brew would screw | something up every other time I upgraded a package, and | didn't cross OS updates very well at all. MacPorts has been | rock-solid, possibly because it is more careful about making | sure that ports have exactly the right deps. | havernator wrote: | Weird. Macports is the one I was always having to edit | packages for to un-break them, with a totally normal | installation. Seemed like their packages were poorly- | maintained. Must have gotten better I guess. | kergonath wrote: | I think this might have changed a bit over the years. I | can't remember last time I had to tinker to build a port. | But you're right, it wasn't uncommon around 2010. | asimpletune wrote: | Or for that matter I'm looking forward to learning more about | nix which promises sort of the holy grail in these matters | samatman wrote: | I tried using nix on a Mac, because I really respect what | they're trying to do and it seems like a "right thing" kind | of platform which I want to support. | | I wasn't able to get it to work, and it left a bunch of users | (like ten??) and other various junk which was a pain to clean | up. This was in 2017 I think. | | I keep hoping someone will chime in and say "I use nix on my | Mac, and it's dreamy, everything Just Works you should try | it!" because until that happens I'm going to stick with brew. | | While I'm on the subject, I was also a macports user until | hmm, 2013 I think. Don't recall exactly why I switched, just | that I was having some kind of intractable problem, messaged | a friend who knows what he's talking about, and he said "just | use brew dude". So I did. | rubyn00bie wrote: | > failed to build because of erlang. | | That specific issue sounds like a MacPorts problem where it | (MacPorts) is using an outdated version of Erlang; because | Erlang works just fine on the M1. | lucideer wrote: | I switched from brew to macports recently, so here are my | thoughts: | | - before, I had generally heard of homebrew a lot, and macports | very little. Brew's marketing is better. I think this is | intentional (as in Macports doesn't really do any) | | - The docs for macports are very poor. They are comprehensive, | but barely navigable. Keyword search doesn't work well. They're | obtuse. | | Further context: I also find brew docs poor, but they're much | more user-focused (how to install packages), whereas macports' | seem more packager-focused. | | - Requiring sudo is a security feature, but Macports doesn't | advertise this well, so brew "seems" more secure on first | impression | | - Most software with cli install instructions recommend brew up | top (even when there's a macports option). i.e. there's no | evangelization of macports by maintainers who package for it. I | don't really know why this is, but it's something macports | maintainers could/should look into. | SkyMarshal wrote: | Interesting observations. Why does Brew seem more secure on | first impression? | lucideer wrote: | As the sibling mentioned, using sudo gives the process | root, with the implication being it has full access to your | system and can potentially do a lot more damage. Extend | this to any arbitrary installer you're running and it | becomes scary. So brew's sudo-less model seems more secure | in this context. | | In reality however, macports uses "privilege separation" | which drops privileges for each individual install to a | separate "macports" user. This is more secure than brews | sudoless approach because not only does the installer not | have root access, it doesn't have full access to your own | user either (e.g. your HOME). Privilege separation isn't | possible without initially having root privileges. | eyelidlessness wrote: | Because not using sudo implies you're not giving anything | escalated privileges. I'm aware there's a contrary view | (which I can't recall, but will dutifully refresh my memory | after I post this answer) but this reasoning still feels | more intuitive to me. | kergonath wrote: | I've been using Macports for years, trying Homebrew every now | and then without finding a good reason to jump. From my point | of view Homebrew would need a serious advantage to overlook the | issues caused by its architecture. I also like the fact that | Macports builds are (mostly) deterministic because they depend | on as many tools from Macports as possible, and not moving | target frameworks from the OS itself. | | Homebrew was the cool new kid at the right time, when Macs | popularity amongst webdevs was growing exponentially. OTOH, | Macports is still working fine; there is room for two package | managers on macOS. | fiddlerwoaroof wrote: | I switched to brew because it goes out of its way to avoid | breaking your system. I recently gave macports another try and | the experience involved editing Portfiles over and over again | to try to get applications to work. | | The most common complaint (changing permissions on /usr/local) | isn't a problem with the arm64 version which now uses /opt/brew | but, also, as far as my trust model goes, it isn't a problem | for me: I already have $HOME/bin on my path and, so, any local | exploit that relies on overwriting system executables has | multiple ways of tricking me into running a malicious program. | otterley wrote: | I think the reason is simply that Homebrew works fine for most | people, including myself. I too have an M1 Mac and had no | problems with it, although this may be a reflection of | significant improvements made in Homebrew related to Apple | Silicon in the past few months. That's the thing about | software: things that break today can be fixed the next (or, | worse, vice versa). | Toutouxc wrote: | For me it was that I heard about Homebrew first, installed it, | never had any problem with it. So, marketing? | eyelidlessness wrote: | Not necessarily even marketing. It's also just the de facto | Mac package manager most commonly mentioned in docs/READMEs | for Mac install instructions. This is probably more a matter | of convenience than anything, and anyone using other package | managers can easily mentally map the instructions to their | own usage. | jdonaldson wrote: | Homebrew starts from the MacOS CLI apps provided through XCode. | It's a usermode package manager built on top of XCode | components. MacPorts builds everything from scratch, which | grants more power and optimization opportunities, but comes | with many, many more rough configuration edges to deal with. | | The optimization opportunities for some packages are typically | on the order of 2x-5x faster, which isn't enough to deal with | the headache of extra config for a personal dev box. So, my | rule of thumb is, unless I know exactly the performance trade | off I am trying to take advantage of by going with MacPorts, I | will be better served by using Homebrew. I will wind up | spending more time fixing config then I will have saved on | execution processing time. | anaerobicover wrote: | > Homebrew starts from the MacOS CLI apps provided through | XCode | | As does MacPorts. | https://guide.macports.org/#installing.xcode | | > MacPorts builds everything from scratch | | This has not been true for many years: | https://trac.macports.org/wiki/FAQ#fromsource | st3fan wrote: | I'm surprised about the Python issue. All I had to do was a 'brew | install python' - and that was months ago I think. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-04-17 23:01 UTC)