[HN Gopher] Visual Studio 2022
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       Visual Studio 2022
        
       Author : kyleShropshire
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2021-04-19 20:51 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (devblogs.microsoft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (devblogs.microsoft.com)
        
       | yellow_lead wrote:
       | Hoping they can fix the "Intellisense operation in progress" pane
       | from ever appearing again.
        
         | tdrp wrote:
         | I don't know what they did in VS2019 but there was clearly a
         | ridiculous perf hit in many modules, especially Intellisense
         | related.
         | 
         | While I sort of liked the AI-predictions they introduced a
         | serious lag in typing and every couple of seconds typing would
         | nearly freeze. After I turned those off, typing became smoother
         | but still slightly laggy (sort of like typing on a remote
         | terminal on the other side of the world), and the predictions
         | would pop up much slower than VS2017.
         | 
         | Lots of other perf issues like "Find in files" being 3x slower
         | than in VS2017. Or adding a new class to a file wastes several
         | seconds looking up templates _somewhere_. I saw dozens of bugs
         | filed for these issues over the past few months and most were
         | resolved as  "Fixed" (allegedly) or "No repro" but in practice
         | the IDE perf is still IMO unacceptable.
         | 
         | I really hope they fixed that stuff with VS2022.
        
       | 2bitencryption wrote:
       | Before clicking the link I was going to joke, "But is it 64-bit
       | yet?" So I was pleasantly surprised :D
        
         | malkia wrote:
         | This ^^^ - Longest waiting for this to happen. Solves quite a
         | lot of issues - from not having to support 32-bit for your own
         | extensions, designer forms, etc. to have tests run in the IDE,
         | to not have plugins/extensions all go IPC which is probably not
         | without problems.
        
         | conradev wrote:
         | I hope this is one step closer to ARM64 support!
        
         | jgon wrote:
         | At a previous job we were repeatedly running into memory
         | pressure issues and had talked about converting to a 64-bit
         | application on and off for years. It was something I had pushed
         | for as we were doing increasingly baroque work-arounds and I
         | was asked to do some work to estimate what it would take to
         | convert over. Ultimately it was decided not to do so and one of
         | the repeated reasons that was cited for why we shouldn't was
         | "Visual Studio isn't 64-bit, why are we so worried!?" Suffice
         | it to say, I found that reasoning pretty frustrating and I am
         | curious to know what will happen now that VS can no longer be
         | cited.
        
       | jalalx wrote:
       | Ok, with this new x64 version, should we rewrite the extensions?
       | Does extensibility API changes?
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | Only a decade too late on the move to 64-bit
        
         | antaviana wrote:
         | Rico Mariani, the "perf guy" at Microsoft, had this opinion on
         | VS 64-bit in 2009:
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20160309232651/http://blogs.msdn...
        
           | thrower123 wrote:
           | This was a stupid take even then.
           | 
           | Performance in Visual Studio has become such a problem that
           | I've renounced it entirely in favor of Rider.
        
       | Hydraulix989 wrote:
       | Huh, why does this still exist if there's VS Code?
        
         | Thristle wrote:
         | I only used VS in recent years for unity development
         | 
         | You can't compare - VS is way ahead of VSC in terms of code
         | completion and IDE<->engine integration
        
         | partiallypro wrote:
         | A compiler vs a basic IDE, yeah, totally the same.
        
         | malkia wrote:
         | Because it's more stable, has better debugger, testing, etc. In
         | Visual Studio Code I feel like things might break if just
         | update it, or the plugin/extension got updated. Also you can
         | keep the whole team in the same "boat" with single IDE, and
         | your IT would know how to respond.
        
         | gerash wrote:
         | I tried out VSCode after all the rage and was pretty
         | underwhelmed. It looked like a lightweight syntax highlighter
         | plus a JS extension marketplace.
         | 
         | I remember VS was a real well integrated IDE back when I used
         | it. Something in the same league as IntelliJ, etc. VSCode
         | wasn't in the same league at least for me.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | VS Code is a glorified text editor (which isn't bad, I use it).
         | Visual Studio is a full-fledged IDE.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | VS Code has things like refactoring support and integrated
           | debugging which are traditionally seen as the dividing line
           | between an IDE and a text editor. How are you defining that
           | distinction?
        
         | rp1229 wrote:
         | Same reason other IDEs exist. VS Code is just the tip of the
         | iceberg.
        
         | paddim8 wrote:
         | More powerful debugging, more mature UI development tools, does
         | a bit more for you.
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | I love VS Code but it's no replacement for Visual Studio when
         | developing .NET apps.
        
           | symlinkk wrote:
           | Other than legacy technology like WYSIWYG form builders,
           | Visual Studio Code has the same functionality but with a
           | simpler, superior interface. Visual Studio is a legacy
           | product, it's that simple, although a lot of people don't
           | seem to want to accept it.
        
             | e-master wrote:
             | No it's not. VS Code doesn't allow you to view/manage
             | threads, modules for example which are crucial for a bit
             | more advanced debugging. I love VS Code and use it daily,
             | but it's no replacement for VS yet.
        
             | alkonaut wrote:
             | Designers is just one of a handful of things. The perf
             | analysis tools for example don't exist in vscode. You can
             | compensate by using a separate profiler but that just
             | drives home the point that VScode replaces only some parts
             | of VS.
        
             | tester756 wrote:
             | For me VS has more reliable IntelliSense.
        
             | wvenable wrote:
             | Visual Code has a simpler interface because it has a
             | fraction of the functionality.
             | 
             | https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/03/23/strategy-letter-
             | iv...
             | 
             | "80% of the people use 20% of the features...
             | Unfortunately, it's never the same 20%."
             | 
             | > legacy technology like WYSIWYG form builders
             | 
             | Kind of a weird statement to make -- who doesn't use
             | WYSIWYG when working in XAML? Nothing legacy about that.
        
         | fassssst wrote:
         | It does a ton more than VS Code, especially for large Windows
         | applications and C++ stuff.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | johnnycerberus wrote:
         | Why does the hammer still exist if there's pliers?
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | Visual Studio supports some legacy technologies that VSCode
         | likely won't ever support _well_.
         | 
         | Even ASP.NET Core which was specifically designed to allow
         | development exclusively from the terminal, still offers a
         | better experience in the full VS Than VSCode (even if
         | JavaScript/CSS/TS/etc part is arguably better in VSCode, the
         | C#/.Net side is better in VS).
         | 
         | But long term: I anticipate VS being a life-support product for
         | that legacy tech and VSCode being the only IDE they move
         | forward with. We just aren't quite there yet.
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | There is no comparison between the two. VS is the _real IDE_
         | while VSCode is a text editor _like Sublime Text_
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | When it uses even 3GB (open a 100 project sln) it's
       | excruciatingly slow as it is. It's also already not limited to
       | 4GB because it consists of multiple processes. I can't see how
       | being able to use 10GB or 20GB in the main process will help.
        
         | brokencode wrote:
         | 64 bit is an improvement IMO. If the main process has more
         | memory to work with, then it's easier to keep things in memory
         | and in a single process where you don't have to incur IPC
         | overheads.
         | 
         | As mentioned elsewhere, the switch does increase pointer sizes,
         | but I'd be very surprised if that is significant compared to
         | the amount of memory used by strings and other data.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | > Updated icons for better clarity, legibility, and contrast.
       | 
       | I feel like a lot of these are at best _different_. The entire
       | bottom row of icons in their comparison seem FAR FAR less
       | legible, especially the _X_ , _Check_ and _i_ icons
        
       | henhouse wrote:
       | Mac is only getting an updated UI? That's a huge shame. It's been
       | out for years and there's still no C++ support. VS Code is decent
       | if you use Cmake, but the code completion and highlighting is
       | really off compared to native VS.
       | 
       | Is there any decent alternative to a good C++ IDE for Mac besides
       | Clion (which costs money).
        
         | Thristle wrote:
         | That's probably because VS for mac is not really "VS" but a re-
         | skinned Xamarin IDE
        
         | ianlevesque wrote:
         | Honestly just pony up for CLion. It is actively developed
         | (support for makefiles and arbitrary build systems was just
         | added in addition to the existing CMake) and JetBrains has a
         | super reasonable subscription that lets you keep the last
         | version you had indefinitely if you ever cancel.
        
           | tbrock wrote:
           | I've tried to like the JetBrains stuff (especially Clion) but
           | I just have never gotten to the point where I love it.
        
         | lstamour wrote:
         | If you can get used to some oddities, Xcode works well enough
         | for any C++ code you write yourself, or have enough control
         | over to make sure you follow the conventions it expects.
         | 
         | But if you need CMake support within your IDE, CLion's worth
         | it, just get the JetBrains subscription (student or
         | professional) and don't look back. Oddly enough when I last
         | used it, CLion didn't work with Clang-based projects quite as
         | nicely as Xcode (it preferred GCC) but that might have changed
         | since then.
         | 
         | Finally, if you want to support open source, you can try VS
         | Code. It mostly works, but it's not an IDE.
         | 
         | Eclipse CDT also exists, but ... I think the last time I tried
         | eclipse was back in the mid-2000s before RubyMine when there
         | was a Ruby-on-Rails plugin for Eclipse. I haven't looked back
         | since...
        
           | ianlevesque wrote:
           | Clang and LLDB work fine now
        
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       (page generated 2021-04-19 23:00 UTC)