[HN Gopher] Using a Pager in the 21st Century ___________________________________________________________________ Using a Pager in the 21st Century Author : todsacerdoti Score : 113 points Date : 2021-05-02 14:23 UTC (8 hours ago) (HTM) web link (dmitryelj.medium.com) (TXT) w3m dump (dmitryelj.medium.com) | minimuffins wrote: | I honestly thought this was going to be about alternatives to | less and more. | BlueTemplar wrote: | There's the Internet Archive for old pages (though it's not | guaranteed to have them of course). | mike_d wrote: | Do you have a link? | BlueTemplar wrote: | A link for what ? | | I'm commenting about : | | > Alas, many pages and links, created 20 years ago, are now | not available -- a well known "link rot" problem occurs when | it's going about things made 20 years ago. | BlueTemplar wrote: | I'm guessing that 7-bit means ASCII with no Unicode support ? | (What about pagers with non-latin alphabets ?) | andrewshadura wrote: | I'm not sure about 7-bit or 8-bit, but e.g. my NEC pager | supported full uppercase ASCII and, in addition, a full set of | uppercase Cyrillic. Could have been KOI-7, but then some of the | punctuation symbols would be missing, so I reckon it was | actually using an 8-bit encoding underneath, e.g. KOI-8. | BlueTemplar wrote: | The article shows "(7 bit/symbol)", but I guess that some | pagers were more advanced ? | zabzonk wrote: | > In the 90th | | What does that mean? | | The only time I've had to use a pager was to support a static | data server for an investment bank (partly written by me) which | was used by London, Tokyo, HK and NY. Being woken up in the | middle of the night I could take (grumpily) but logging on to the | bank's systems from home was a thing of Byzantine horror. Anyway, | we re-wrote the scripts to page someone who would be at the desk | in the appropriate timezone, and all they normally had to do was | the classic "turn it off and on again" reboot of the server, or | phone one of us in London in extremis. | vageli wrote: | It seems a typo for "In the 90s". | jedimastert wrote: | I'm guess they meant to say "90s" | [deleted] | [deleted] | supernova87a wrote: | One issue he doesn't talk about is that the sender can never for | sure know that the pager received the message. | | At one point I was interested to know if there were versions of | the paging technology (for some critical application?) that tried | to solve this by issuing multiple redundant messages over some | amount of time, and the pager ignoring the redundant ones after | the 1st one had been received? | | Also would be interesting to hear how the many companies "divided | up" cities, etc. to create a network. | | I remember there used to be some convoluted way of dialing into a | pager service and keying the numbers/text that you wanted to be | shown on the recipient's screen, but have long forgotten it. | markrages wrote: | > At one point I was interested to know if there were versions | of the paging technology (for some critical application?) that | tried to solve this by issuing multiple redundant messages over | some amount of time, and the pager ignoring the redundant ones | after the 1st one had been received? | | This is in fact how pagers work. | croes wrote: | "That's it. It's a one-way communication, there is no | confirmation sending back, the pager has only the receiver and | no transmitter at all." Implies the issue of not knowing if the | message is received. | walshemj wrote: | Possibly for older networks - the remining one in the UK does | encrypt. | | I used to have a basic pager in the 80's when I was on call for | BT / Dialcom | nemo1618 wrote: | I looked into getting a pager recently; my plan was to disable my | household internet completely for some number of hours per day | (by plugging the router into a Christmas tree timer!), keeping | the pager around for when my team needs to reach me in an | emergency. | | I was surprised to find that, as the article mentions, there's | basically only one place to buy new pagers -- and they're quite | expensive. After thinking about it some more, I realized that | what I really wanted was a separate phone number that my team | could send SMS messages to. And I didn't even need to build my | own pager-like device out of a RasPi or something; I could just | buy a cheap flip phone. Total cost for phone and 1000 SMS | messages is <$100. | kingsuper20 wrote: | >Total cost for phone and 1000 SMS messages is <$100. | | That's a good plan. Tracfone is roughly $10 a month for a | smartphone, but what I wish existed was (a) a really cheap | device and plan that was SMS-only and (b) people would only use | SMS. | | I'm damn sick of Fidelity leaving messages for no doubt | wondrous investment advice and robocalls for appliance and car | warranty programs. That's 99% of the voice calls that I get. | mcny wrote: | Assuming you are in the US or want a US number, I recommend | Google Voice and turn on spam protection. | | While the SMS integration is going away soon, you will still | be able to use (I think) SMS from within the app and while | the terms of service disallow automation, my understanding is | that is mostly only for outgoing texts (they don't want | Google Voice users spamming the world) rather than incoming | (I don't see why Google Voice would be against you doing | whatever you want with the texts you receive). | | I suspect the reason why carriers allow these spam calls and | texts is they make money from all calls and texts and have no | incentive to fix things. | peterburkimsher wrote: | "While the SMS integration is going away soon" - thank you | for the warning! | | https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/03/09/google-voice- | wont-f... | | I use SMS-via-email very frequently, and was rather | worried. Thankfully that will stay. | | SMS forwarding to a local number's SMS hasn't been possible | for me anyway, because my local number is not in the US. At | one point I had a setup with Google Calendar forwarding my | emails to SMS, but that got shut down in 2019 (to my | dismay). | | https://www.ghacks.net/2018/11/19/google-removes-sms- | notific... | cheezymoogle wrote: | Here's a solution for $60/year, plus the cost of whatever | budget Android device you want or have on hand: | | A year of unlimited talk/text from Liberty Wireless (a | T-Mobile MVNO) costs $60.^1 Then, use call barring/do not | disturb to disable incoming calls and USSD codes^2 to turn | off call forwarding. You now have a phone number that | effectively only supports SMS. | | I'd also recommend going with this plan if you are addicted | to the Internet and just want a phone, but don't want to pay | through the nose for something like the Punkt^3. | | As far as only using SMS, sending/forwarding emails through | SMS is doable (for now), so if your people's comms can be | converted to email, you can use SMS for those as well. | | Unfortunately, the naive solution of sending outgoing mail | requires MMS (and therefore data), but you can send SMS to a | Google Voice number, for example, which can be set up to | forward a copy of the message to an email, which can then be | used for triggering control events locally. YMMV. | | --- | | 1 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/174582899616 | | 2 - https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/self- | service... | | 3 - https://www.punkt.ch/en/products/mp02-4g-mobile-phone/ | dqv wrote: | I wish someone would make a low powered cellular pager using an | e-ink display, but then I realize only 3 people would use it. | Pagers seem to be designed to actually wake you up if you get | paged. I think the beeping hardware is different from the | speaker hardware in cell phones. The vibration in phones | nowadays seems weak. | | The issues other people are describing with insecurity and lack | of ack could also be resolved. The backend server that accepts | messages could even support WCTP for backwards compatibility. | alexjplant wrote: | Couldn't you just get a router running some type of *nix | (pfSense, DD-WRT, etc) and accomplish this via cron? Maybe | perform a dig on whatever API endpoints you still want to talk | to (PagerDuty, Slack) then have a set of ACLs that only allows | traffic to those on the WAN interface during your "blackout" | period? | throwawayboise wrote: | Does this really seem easier than a simple timer? | xmprt wrote: | Probably not easier, but it is free and much more | configurable. | sigg3 wrote: | "When you have root, everything is a cron job." | | BSOH proverb | nemo1618 wrote: | This is peak Hacker News right here lmao | nemo1618 wrote: | To elaborate on my snark, this doesn't work because: | | - Whitelisting my messaging app means I'd still get pinged | for non-emergency messages | | - Enforcing the block at the software level makes it too | easy for me to disable it when the temptation arises. My | current setup forces me to walk upstairs, flip the switch, | then wait multiple minutes for the router to boot. | | It would also take a lot more effort to set up, and time is | money! | jasonpeacock wrote: | A very important note: Pages are _plaintext_ , they are not | encrypted. Anyone with a radio can receive and decode all pages | sent within reception range of that radio. | | (which is evident when you read the article, but not called out | explicitly) | | This is a big deal for any use which involves | private/sensitive/confidential data, as it can inform | eavesdroppers about current issues, internal tools/architecture, | personnel status, etc. | | For example, do you want to know when a major cloud company is | having an internal outage? Listen for pages which follow their | internal notification format. Or maybe you want to know if a | critical patient at a hospital is having troubles - listen for | pages to their doctor. Does the military command center use | pagers (I hope not) - that could be interesting too... | | If your employer is using pagers, raise this issue to their | security team (and share this great page showing how easy it is | to eavesdrop). At the least, the pager messages should be as | vague/simple as possible while still being useful. At the | best...don't use pagers. | | Pagers are already a poor choice - messages are delivered "with | best effort" but there's no guaranteed sending, no receipt, no | retries. If you're out of range (or signal blocked), the message | is lost, and it's up to the sender to implement their own ack & | retry system. | | (I carried a pager for work for almost 15yrs) | tyingq wrote: | >Pagers are already a poor choice - messages are delivered | "with best effort" but there's no guaranteed sending, no | receipt, no retries. | | They were pretty good towards the end of their reign when 2-way | pagers came out. We were able to easily implement something | where the system would keep paging you until you responded with | an "I've got it" ack or a "Hand it off to the secondary" | response, both of them an easy pick-list item. | dmd wrote: | My employer (a large healthcare company) has been shown over | and over that they're broadcasting PHI in the clear over | pagers, and that this is bad, and their response every time has | been "the paging company assures us it is secure". Evidence | doesn't matter, only the word 'secure' in their contract with | the paging company does, so it's "not their fault". | 77pt77 wrote: | Worse. If you show that it's trivially insecure, you are now | the suspect/perpetrator. | | Never break these illusions. Keep your mouth shut. | WrtCdEvrydy wrote: | Even as the dedicated security contact whose job is it to | test this shit, you will be looked at as a dickhead for | pointing that we just spent 30k on something we can't use. | mattowen_uk wrote: | When did we all become so paranoid? | | Pagers used to be used by millions of people, in thousands of | companies. 99.999% of the messages sent would have been utterly | mundane. Stuff like 'call the office' or 'go to place x'. | | Just like our chat platforms of today, the data just isn't that | interesting. | | Pagers were good for the era they were invented for, and at | scale ended up being almost free to operate for the companies | that used them. | | Encrypting stuff requires CPU grunt that pagers simply did not | have, especially when the driver was to have as long battery | life as possible. | | If anything, I miss that simpler era when we didn't have to | assume that everybody in the chain was a bad actor trying steal | our information. | minitoar wrote: | Even Caesar encrypted his pages. | Spooky23 wrote: | We didn't assume because of ignorance. Innocence lost. | | Plenty of people were listening - there's an archive from | 9/11/01 that was released with many of the pages in lower | Manhattan that day. | | Police routinely monitored this stuff, and it's reputed that | PIs, ambulance chasing attorneys, etc did the same. Was it | relevant/meaningful to when my mom was going to pick me up | from work at the mall was a page? Probably not. | klyrs wrote: | > When did we all become so paranoid? | | One industry that makes extensive use of pagers is health | care. Frequently, personal and identifying information (PII) | is transmitted over pages. By all rights, this is a violation | of privacy laws (e.g. HIPAA). | | Why does a desire for privacy constitute paranoia? | | Pagers aren't only a technology of yesteryear -- they're | still in use by millions of hospital staff. Despite the | availability of cheap & easy strong crypto today, the | technology is still stuck in the past. I'd wonder why, but | upgrading infrastructure is expensive and it will probably | take a class-action suit to make continued privacy violations | more expensive than upgrades. | [deleted] | mikecsh wrote: | >> I'd wonder why | | I'm a doctor, and whilst I despise carrying a pager it does | have some benefits over more modern alternatives in some | scenarios. | | Mobile (cell) reception in hospitals is generally very poor | and wifi connectivity is also generally poor. Trying to | rely on either of those to deliver _critical_ communication | (e.g. bleeps to the crash team to respond to a cardiac | arrest) is more unreliable than the hospital blasting a | simple radio signal that any pagers within a few mile | radius will always receive and decode appropriately. | | For less critical communications (e.g. where you might | bleep someone to contact them to a refer a patient to their | specialty) there is a (slow) move towards messaging apps or | email. These solutions do not yet have the immediacy and | reliability of a simple pager for critical applications. | nataz wrote: | I'm curious about the use of pagers in healthcare. I work | in an industry that would love to have pagers for on call | events, but service has proven unreliable (especially | indoors) unless you build out your own dedicated wireless | infrastructure for every building you are working in. | | We have alternative secure voice/data communication, but | they tend to either be bulky or have strict storage and | carry restrictions. | | Would love a small reliable pager system to carry on our | person that would simply let us know to check in. | | All of the pager architecture in the US seems to have | disappeared in the marketplace. | Fogest wrote: | I'm curious what personal health information would be | transmitted via a pager anyway? I assume a doctor would | only need to know a room number and maybe code or chief | complaint in the page? | | I see other commenters mentioning some PHI is being | shared via pagers and I am unclear what that may be ? | mikecsh wrote: | In my experience (UK) there is no personal information | transmitted. There are two main types of bleeps: | | 1. Sending the number of a telephone extension you want | the recipient of the bleep to call. For example, if I | need a cardiology opinion, I will bleep the cardiologist | with a telephone extension and wait for them to | (hopefully) call back while I am still but he phone and | before it is called by anyone else. This data is not | sensitive. These are the types of bleeps which are being | replaced slowly by asynchronous communication via apps | | 2. Emergency bleeps which are designed to alert a | specific group of people on the arrest team to respond to | an emergency. These usually work quite differently. | Instead of 1:1 they are 1:many and usually carry a | different alert tone, followed by a (generally poor | quality) audio alert of the operator saying something | like "paediatric cardiac arrest inbound to ED, ETA, 5 | minutes". Again these carry no sensitive data. | Fogest wrote: | Yeah from what I have heard from Canadian based doctors | the pagers are used for almost identically the same as | what you described for the UK. | detaro wrote: | here's an article with examples: | https://www.kansascity.com/news/business/health- | care/article... | | basically, they broadcast patient name, initial diagnosis | etc | Fogest wrote: | Weird, as the other commenter mentioned their's in the UK | don't have patient information in them. In fact the | medical professional I know in Canada have pagers that | give essentially the same information about the UK | commenters. It's either an extension to call, or for a | code. | | Maybe countries like the UK and Canada are more strict | about personal health information and have kept personal | info out of pagers? I know working in healthcare systems | in Canada I would get in trouble even if I used a medical | software to look myself up in it. | detaro wrote: | Here's a Canada example (apparently patient transport | coordination, fixed after media attention): | https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/pager-systems-used-in- | healthca... | Fogest wrote: | Ah, interesting. The only people I've actually talked to | before about the pagers were from Ontario and the | healthcare is mostly managed at the provincial level. So | not sure if this was a problem in Ontario or not. I am | sure at some point all the hospitals were doing this and | eventually switched over to the new way that doesn't do | this. | | However being a 911 dispatcher for the EMS system here I | can say that our radios are not encrypted and can be | listened to online by anyone. We mention addresses, chief | complaints, and anything else that may be relevant for | the paramedics. Patient names would not be given over | radios nor would other private info like if the building | has an access code. Anything that is private like that is | indicated to the paramedics by saying something like | "call for access code". Then they call the landline and | get the info that way. | | In my opinion though, knowing addresses and medical | conditions going on can still be a bit sensitive in | nature. The police here recently switched to encrypted | radios. It was nice sometimes to listen to the scanner, | but at the same time it's understandable why it's less | than ideal having open radios. | klyrs wrote: | If you reread me, you'll find my "why" isn't "why use | pagers", it's "why don't pagers implement even basic | crypto" | mikecsh wrote: | Ah yes - sorry, I read that too quickly. The answer to | that (at least limited to my experience of pagers in many | UK hospitals) is that they don't carry any sensitive data | at all. | | There are a lot of other issues with them though. There | are few companies supplying them so they are actually | very expensive. Consequently in our publicly funded | health service they are not replaced often and many are | in a poor state with batteries held in by tape etc. | | The main issues from perspective as a user is the | synchronous model of communication that they enforce. | Unless something is an emergency, it's an unnecessarily | disruptive workflow. | | There are usually a limited number of phones on a ward, | which are usually very busy lines. Using pagers for | routine communication means: | | 1. Physically move myself to a location with a phone 2. | Wait for phone to be free 3. Call a number to send the | bleep 4. Wait for a response (bearing in mind the | recipient needs to be free, move to a phone, wait for | that phone to be free, and call back) 5. Guard the phone | from others using it until I receive the call 6. Hope | that no one else calls the phone in the meantime | | Bearing in mind that everyone is always busy in hospital | this is a huge source of frustration and wasted time, | hence the move towards secure messaging apps for these | scenarios. Unfortunately these are mostly being built as | silos rather than interoperable communication networks. | | As mentioned above, for actually alerting a group of | people to an emergency when you need an immediate | response, pagers are still hard to beat. | calvinmorrison wrote: | I use a pager. AMA | seumars wrote: | As an add-on to your smartphone? I like the idea of using a | pager, not for the sake of romanticizing old tech, but to | reduce the mental overload of being constantly online. | calvinmorrison wrote: | Yes. I got it two years ago since I hate my phone and having | to always worry its charged etc. Pager takes 1 AA that lasts | about a month. Its hooked into work to ping me if I need to | flip out my laptop. Dead reliable and the service is great. | paulz_ wrote: | I have considered doing this exact thing. Any tips? | | One thing I've wondered about is if there is even any pager | network coverage where I live. I suspect yes but I don't | know of any coverage maps or that sort of thing. | calvinmorrison wrote: | Coverage is good in all us metro areas. directpage has | good coverage maps as there's basically only two networks | these days | [deleted] | reaperducer wrote: | How much is a pager and service these days? Who provides the | service? | calvinmorrison wrote: | Its ~$10 a month. The pagers are free with my service. I use | direct page but I forget which network I am on, never had a | problem! with service even out in Amish Country | cpach wrote: | Why? Have you considered replacing it? | | Just curious :) | calvinmorrison wrote: | No but I have considered dropping my mobile phone entirely | cpach wrote: | Yeah same here | dawnerd wrote: | Universal Studios Hollywood was using them up to about 7 years | ago? Cell service wasn't the best and they hadn't rolled out wifi | everywhere so tour guides would have them to keep up on what was | going on. | imwillofficial wrote: | This article is great. I use a pager for work, as it's the only | device allowed in some sensitive areas. When it get paged while | I'm out and about I get the strangest looks, like I'm some sort | of time traveler. | chrisandchris wrote: | In Switzerland some voluntary emergency services (like | firefighters) have pagers because it just works better than | phone/sms. However most alsrms then still go out by phone and | sms. | wheybags wrote: | Does it work while you're out and about? My understanding was | they were generally limited to a small range, like the area | inside and near a major hospital. | dm319 wrote: | I just looked this up for the UK, and noticed that there is | still a single national paging network. I use pager at work, | but, as you say, the network is limited to the site. | mattowen_uk wrote: | Back in the day many countries had nationwide paging | networks. Nowhere was safe from getting a page. | | You couldnt just use the 'I had no signal' excuse. | | There wasn't cross country roaming for pagers though, I don't | think. | reaperducer wrote: | There was in the United States. But it was pretty | expensive. | | Pagers hung in for a long time because they had far better | coverage than cell phones. I don't know if that's still the | case. | dlgeek wrote: | Not at all. There are a some very large pager networks in the | US. As a bonus, since the messages are so simple, they have | better penetration in a given area than GSM would. (I've had | my pager go off in a deep parking garage for example). | | Ex, here are the coverage maps for SPOK who bought out USA | Mobility: https://www.spok.com/solutions/paging- | services/wide-area-pag... | justusthane wrote: | The only problem is there's no indication on the pager | whether or not you're in range, and no way to know whether | you missed a page due to being out of range. | | At the same time, the reason they're still used is there's | no good modern alternative in a lot of ways (battery life, | range). | | Troubleshooting paging issues is one thing I do not miss | from my time in healthcare I.T. | reaperducer wrote: | _The only problem is there's no indication on the pager | whether or not you're in range_ | | The pager I had in 2003 has a signal strength indicator | just like a cell phone so you know if you are in range. | | The pager was also able to let the network know if the | message was received. If it didn't, the network would | keep retrying until it got an ACK. | owenversteeg wrote: | Is the coverage really that bad? Looking at that map it | seems like you're really only covered inside major cities. | Even somewhere like Connecticut seems to have most of the | state with zero coverage! | c22 wrote: | I always thought it'd be cool if someone put a pager chipset into | my smart phone so I could configure it to receive a page whenever | someone was calling me and only connect to the cellular network | if I wanted to take the call. | samgranieri wrote: | My dad is a doctor and has had pagers the entire time, from the | bulky brick one you can see Dr. Beeper using in Caddyshack to the | ones you'd see in this article. | | Outside of work, I've actually had to page him a few times: my | family has season tickets for Northwestern Wildcats football | games, and he has the tickets. If I arrive to the game late, I'd | need to call or page him to come down and give me the tickets. | It's not a problem when the opponent is a small school that | doesn't travel well, but when a school like Nebraska or Ohio | State show up in Evanston, cell service goes to shit (imagine | having 47000 people in a suburban neighborhood). | | I page him and it works like a charm. | bminusl wrote: | I would like to use a pager-like device as a grocery shopping | list. But a pager isn't quite what I'm looking for (I think). | | Basically, I need a small device that can fit in a pocket, with a | long battery life, a simple display, and a few buttons. Bonus | points if it's cheap and easily hackable. | | What are the options? | dm319 wrote: | I would love for a modern low-power LCD/e-ink palmtop, but | sadly I haven't seen the likes of it since the old Psions. | kator wrote: | Palm Pilot? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PalmPilot | bminusl wrote: | Not exactly, I'm looking for something more minimalist. | mattowen_uk wrote: | Find an old palm pilot on eBay with a refurbished battery. | Instant digital notebook for the cost of a few dollars/pounds. | fencepost wrote: | Might as well go for one of the even older models that ran on | 2xAAA. Not like you're losing compatibility with modern | hardware. | dudul wrote: | How about a small notepad made of paper? What would be the | benefit of a "pager-like device" over it? | bminusl wrote: | > What would be the benefit of a "pager-like device" over it? | | - Adding items remotely | | - Automatic item sorting | | - Pre-made lists | elliekelly wrote: | What about a raspberry pi + thermal receipt printer? You | could have a way (or several ways) to add items remotely | and automatically sort items and then print the list just | as you're about to head into the store. And with thermal | receipt tape you could mark off that you've got the item in | your cart with your fingernail. | bminusl wrote: | Interesting idea. I'll keep that in mind. | stevewillows wrote: | this is my dream! I used to use a Pebble watch for grocery | lists, but the display is just too small for a larger list. | | It would be fantastic to have something that is basically a | half-sized palm pilot (say, 4" tall, 2" wide), eink/memory lcd, | and the ability to rotate (not automatically.) There's probably | a digital price tag that could work for the screen. | | When I was using my Pebbles more often, it was great to be out | and never check my phone for anything. Back in the day we could | have set responses -- but as the years go on, we lose some | functionality. The Rebble project will probably fix this one | day. | zestros wrote: | https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor | [deleted] | hoka-one-one wrote: | Tamagotchi? | bminusl wrote: | Perfection. | [deleted] | dkersten wrote: | If you don't mind a bit of work, you could look into one of the | DIY smart watches on hackaday or whatever. Since you don't need | a watch form factor, that should give you a little extra room | in terms of size or components. I found them a little too bulky | as a watch for my taste, but they might work as a pager-like | device. | bminusl wrote: | You reminded me of Watchy[1] (which I completely forgot | about). It is a good contender. | | [1]: https://watchy.sqfmi.com/ | swiley wrote: | This sounds exactly like an older palm pilot. | | They used ram for persistent storage because the battery life | was so long (due to a very slow dragon ball CPU and those dot- | matrix displays.) | | The palm III was probably one of the best hand-held computers | ever made, if there were a way to put a modern modem in it to | get texts I would probably use that instead of my phone. | madengr wrote: | I actually had a pager add-on PCB in my Palm Pilot. Worked | great. | caturopath wrote: | May I ask why you don't want to use a phone? You don't want to | carry/look at it for the other stuff that a phone has? | bminusl wrote: | Phones are generally too bulky for my liking. I prefer to | have something simple and light. And I care way less if it's | stolen or lost. | [deleted] | im3w1l wrote: | Is pickpocketing still a thing? My perception is that | between wallets full of plastic and phones that can be | remotely locked, it has almost completely disappeared. I | remember being told to be wary in crowded places as a kid, | but nowadays I'm very careless and nothing happens. | | Bike thefts though, they are a serious issue that I plan my | life around. | jen20 wrote: | In 2019, I had my phone and wallet stolen in Barcelona | via pickpocketing. I know of someone who had their wallet | stolen in the Madrid subway the same way. I've not heard | of it recently in the US though. | caturopath wrote: | The wallets full of plastic remark doesn't really apply | in Spain, where tons more people carry real amounts of | cash. | caturopath wrote: | Note that crime in the US overall has gone wayyyy down | since you were likely a kid. We're at Leave It To Beaver | levels. | croes wrote: | Overall yes, single states no. | https://www.safehome.org/resources/crime-statistics-by- | state... | reaperducer wrote: | You should try to find something more .gov to link to for | statistics, rather than a PR company that flogs home | security systems and devices. | spiritplumber wrote: | And yet a lot of people think that it's gone up because | of skewed reporting. | croes wrote: | Depends on the state where you live. If you live in New | Mexico it doesn't matter if the crime rate in Mew York | goes down. https://www.safehome.org/resources/crime- | statistics-by-state... | benjohnson wrote: | If your of an older demographic, that may potentially | have a wad of cash, pickpocketing is still very much a | problem. Especially in tourist spots. | walshemj wrote: | Oddly the Vatican has a high crime rate because of this | spaceisballer wrote: | I like the idea of the Lightphone 2. E ink display and minimal | functionality. Plus it's small and has a long battery life. | reaperducer wrote: | I'm not trying to be a jerk, but have you considered going back | to paper? | | After unending frustration with Siri and grocery lists, I just | went back to paper. It works brilliantly. The "shared list" is | my wife texting me things to add to the list, and I immediately | take the piece of paper out of my wallet and write stuff on it. | | I've been using phones, computers, PDA's, and electronic | organizers for grocery lists for decades, and none have worked | as well, or been as useful as a piece of folded paper. | fencepost wrote: | The return of the "Hipster PDA" (speaking as one who did this | for a few years). | | I believe see also "bullet journal." | bminusl wrote: | I have always used paper. | | But there are some things I would like to improve, see [1]. | | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27016068 ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-05-02 23:01 UTC)