[HN Gopher] Designing a guitar with hot-swappable pickups ___________________________________________________________________ Designing a guitar with hot-swappable pickups Author : frenchie4111 Score : 85 points Date : 2021-05-02 17:44 UTC (5 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.staycaffeinated.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.staycaffeinated.com) | ZoomZoomZoom wrote: | FYI, this idea got implemented a few times in various forms, the | most known commercial implementation is by Dan Armstrong. | | Ampeg Dan Amrstrong guitar and bass are just cool, look them up. | jackseviltwin wrote: | Somnium Guitars [0] also makes guitars with easily hot swappable | pickups. They have a mounting system where you can put most | pickups into their mounting module and click it into place from | the back of the body. It's still a bit pricey, but starts at a | less expensive $2,495 MSRP vs $4,500 from Relish. | | Here's a video from Know Your Gear on their product: | https://youtu.be/Vj2uJBeSHt4 | | [0] https://somniumguitars.com | frenchie4111 wrote: | These are awesome, thanks for sharing | utopcell wrote: | One could get a Line 6 Variax and play with endless variations on | body types, pickups, tunings and recordings of vintage guitars. | Old ones can be had for very little these days. | leoh wrote: | Very nice. It would be awesome if this were standard. | galkk wrote: | Without video it isn't clear how convenient/easy it is. | | Here's another approach: https://youtu.be/pZaTbCBvcOI?t=39 (it's | in Russian, but the mechanics is very simple) | frenchie4111 wrote: | Ooh that one is easier than mine. Would have been outside the | scope for this project though (likely needs custom connectors). | | Takes 30 seconds-ish to swap mine, you pull it out, unplug the | jack, plug the jack into the next one, slide it in. Not "on | stage" easy, but definitely "messing around in my garage" easy. | kjgkjhfkjf wrote: | It's extremely tempting to try to speed up your progress on the | guitar using your existing engineering skills (e.g. what we have | here), mathematics skills (e.g. learning music theory), or other | resources (e.g. buying loads of gear), but the only way reliably | to make progress is practice, practice, and more practice playing | the guitar itself. | utopcell wrote: | Jimi went from a $5 acoustic in 1958 to being dead in 1970. | That's less time than what it takes most of us to go through our | GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) and just enjoy playing the darned | thing. | TrackerFF wrote: | Dan Armstrong guitars had a nifty system for this, which goes | back years. | | https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/2319685814_b648ce0118.j... | | https://cdn.mos.musicradar.com/images/Product%20News/Guitar/... | jolux wrote: | Nice to see some electric guitar geekery on HN :). I started | playing last year during the pandemic too, but I had learned a | bit in elementary school and I played alto saxophone for around a | decade in various school jazz groups. | | Gentle suggestion: try to see how many different tones you can | get out of one sole pickup by varying your technique (angle and | strength of attack, angle that your finger is fretting the | string, the part of your finger you fret with, amount of vibrato, | type of vibrato, gentle bends, etc). Try practicing with the amp | cranked so you can play notes at normal volume just by brushing | the pick against the string and listen to the errors it reveals | in your technique. The electric guitar is an extremely sensitive | instrument. Pickups do make a huge difference (particularly | switching between singles and humbuckers), but I got this advice | from a teacher and it has totally changed my perspective on tone. | If you can develop a deep understanding of the relationship your | technique has to tone, you can find a tone that is yours on any | guitar, I guarantee it. | Beldin wrote: | For those like me who didn't know: a pickup is a thingy that | generates a tiny electrical field around a string. This allows | electronics to translate string vibrations to an audio signal. | | One thing missing (for me) from the article is a rough idea of | what the effect could be. Why would you care about easy swapping | at all? Why not find the right one(s) and stick with that/those? | Why does changing speed matter - would you change them between | songs? | | (Yes, I didn't know about pickups before this article) | analog31 wrote: | Perhaps for a bit of additional explanation, a guitar pickup is | a variable reluctance sensor. It's a coil wrapped around a | magnet. The magnet sympathetically magnetizes the string, and | then the vibrating magnetized string induces a voltage on the | coil. The strings have to be made of a magnetic material such | as steel, nickel, or one of the magnetic stainless alloys. | | Beyond what was mentioned about single and dual coil, each | pickup has a unique resistance and inductance, which at first | glance might affect the frequency response of the typically | crude circuit in the guitar. And the magnetic field may also | produce some damping of the string motion. Those are some | things that might affect tone quality. | TrackerFF wrote: | Because we guitarists enjoy the wild goose chase that is the | never-ending quest for ultimate tone, and thus need to try as | many pickups as possible. | | But on a more serious note - it's because woods sound very | different, and pickups will sound very different depending on | what guitar they're in. It's a pain to take the strings off, | de-solder a pickup, solder in a new pickup, and put on the | strings - only to discover that the pickup doesn't sound any | good. Being able to swap them out in mater of seconds is an | all-around improvement. | hctaw wrote: | It's a laborious process that has a significant impact on tone. | You usually have to restring the guitar when you change them | out. | | The biggest change would be between dual coils ("humbuckers") | and true single coils. Most modern humbuckers have four leads | (you only need two to make a sound, you get two leads per coil) | which allow you to wire a switch on the guitar called a "coil | tap" which allows you to disengage the secondary coil. This | allows you to have a dual coil that functions sonically as | either, and it is very desirable for musicians that need a | diverse range of tones for their set list (good example is if | you ever play a wedding and take requests). | | You're also never happy with it. I've changed all the pups on | my three guitars multiple times. | mattacular wrote: | Very cool DIY. Was hoping to see what it looks like from the back | with all the electronics in place? And maybe a video of how the | swap works in practice would be helpful to illustrate. | mike_red5hift wrote: | Might want to look at Somnium Guitars for a more refined (not | DIY) version of this. They have a really nice system. Not cheap, | but the build quality is excellent. | papandada wrote: | But how about the results of which pickup sounds he preferred? | [deleted] | wk_end wrote: | > On every electric guitar, the pickups have dampening springs. | From trolling online guitar forums, it sounds like these are | pretty important for dampening some vibrations from affecting the | pickup. | | This is a strange statement. Many pickup designs have springs as | part of their mounting mechanism, but it's not for dampening | vibrations - it's to allow the height of the pickup to be | adjusted. | | Certain pickups (notably, off the top of my head, Fender | Jazzmaster & Jaguar pickups) don't even use springs for this - | instead there's a block of foam placed underneath the pickup that | compresses as the pickup is screwed down. | | Of course, it's possible some cork-sniffer guitar nerds will | claim that they can hear the effects pickup springs have on tone | (and the effects of different metals in the springs, no doubt), | but these are the same people who will claim that they can hear | the difference different glues make on tone, or will swear up- | and-down that a real $5000 Klon has a richer and fuller sound | than a $100 clone made from the exact same circuit with the exact | same components, or that tube amps sound better because | "electrons can't survive in a crystal lattice" [0] (so buy my | $100K tube amp!), or... | | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVTj08qTwGw | squarefoot wrote: | I don't know about dampening screws on pickups as I don't think | I ever saw them; they use springs on each screw to keep them | pushed up and reduce screws play, but I'm not sure they're the | same thing. | | Anyway, guitars with a spring vibrato bridge, have this faint | but audible natural spring reverb inside their body which by | contact affects the strings too adding more warmth to their | sound. | | It would be worth experimenting with a set of all different | springs so that the force applied to the bridge is the same, | but they would resonate on different frequencies therefore | making the reverb effect bandwidth wider. | frenchie4111 wrote: | Good thing it's easy to swap the pickups in my guitar, so I | can test things like that easily :) | YZF wrote: | "Tone" is the sum of many little things (and then some bigger | things). There can certainly be differences between guitars | that seem quite similar. Since part (most?) of "tone" comes | from the player there can be subtle "UX" things that have an | influence or even the mental state of the player and what they | believe to be true. | | I can believe that spring mounted vs solidly mounting to the | body can make some difference (physics says there should be) | but I can also believe the difference can be so small as to be | negligible. | | People gravitate towards combos that are known to be | successful. Since they don't understand the exact mechanisms at | work it's safe to say let's have a mahogany body, a certain | pickup, mounted a certain way, a bone nut, certain fingerboard | material etc. and expect certain results. | tshaddox wrote: | I don't think you'll see much criticism of people's personal | preferences or habits for their own guitar playing, even for | things that are pretty eccentric or obviously superstitious. | What _is_ legit criticism in my view is when people are | trying to convince other people of these things (and | especially selling these things at exorbitant prices by | making dubious claims). | jolux wrote: | In rough order of significance, electric guitar tone is | influenced by: | | - technique (absolutely the most important) | | - amplifier | | - pickups + strings | | - everything else (debatable whether you can even notice it) | | I don't know if there's hard evidence but I think folks who | think wood and nut types and whatever make a difference are | nuts. The relative difference in stiffness between the | strings and the body is so huge that believing that the neck | and body effect tone seems to me like believing that asphalt | vs concrete effects how a tennis net vibrates. | disantlor wrote: | Tried to second your comment about playing quietly on a | very loud amp but looks like it was deleted. So I'll say it | here: at some point I tried playing out of a very high | headroom amp, fingerstyle, and it _completely_ changed my | playing and understanding of the guitar. I "wasted" so | many years on small tube amps that break up right away. | jolux wrote: | Sorry about that, reposted ;) | skj wrote: | You can definitely hear the difference between many guitar | models. Are you suggesting that pickups are the only | difference? | jolux wrote: | Pickups and amps are by far the biggest difference. In an | acoustic guitar, sound is produced by the whole body of | the guitar resonating. In an electric, sound is produced | by the string vibrating in an electromagnetic field above | the pickup poles. The ideal guitar string contacts the | body at three points along the body (nut, fret, saddle), | on ideally as narrow a surface as possible at each of | those points. | the_local_host wrote: | If you ever get the chance, try putting together a strat | with one of those cheap paulownia bodies and compare it | to.. well, anything else that is exactly the same except | for the body material. To me, the difference is glaring; | the paulownia is so treble-heavy it's intolerable. | jolux wrote: | By what principle does it make it more treble-heavy? This | is the part that I haven't had explained to me and I | don't understand it. I have a basswood Mustang and it | sounds fine with decent humbuckers in it. | 2muchcoffeeman wrote: | Is it as simple as that though? | | Ideally you'd have the same care put into making the | "cheap" body. So that we can isolate the difference to | just the material. | TylerE wrote: | Strings can make a tremendous difference. Just throw on a | set of flatwounds if you don't believe me. | jolux wrote: | Yes, strings are one of the most important. Also dirty | and old strings vs new and clean strings. | [deleted] | lostlogin wrote: | > trolling | | Does the author mean 'trawling'? | frenchie4111 wrote: | Yep, you're right, I do mean that | fnord77 wrote: | you were right | | > The basic difference between these two similar terms is | that trawling involves a net and is typically done for | commercial fishing purposes, while trolling involves a rod, | reel, and a bait or lure," and is typically done by | recreational fishermen. | lostlogin wrote: | The definition misses a common usage - to antagonize | (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, | irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive | content. | | I wonder though, based on the professional/enthusiast | fishing definition, could you call someone who is paid | for (digital) trolling, a trawler? | | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/troll | lostlogin wrote: | Hello! Neat articles on the rest of your site too. As a | Home Assistant addict, you have given me plenty to read. | sunshineforever wrote: | Are you sure that tube amps don't sound better than solid state | amps? This is such a common knowledge in the "guitar world" | that I can't believe that it's not true. And I swear that I've | heard the difference myself... | | Edit to further elaborate I've heard that solid state amps are | used in metal more commonly because they have a different tone | then tube amps which would be more common in a bluesy type | sound. | vcxy wrote: | I think this used to be true, but these days tube amps can be | very faithfully modeled. E.g., the fender tone master amps | sound great. | tshaddox wrote: | Even when it used to be true, I feel like what was true was | that tube amps sound more like tube amps than solid state | amps. | robbiex88 wrote: | "...I've heard that solid state amps are used in metal more | commonly because they have a different tone" | | Partially false. The general trend in metal has gravitated | towards tube amp distortion (and digital modeling of it) | precisely because of the different tone and responses vs | solid state amps. | | As a guitarist there's a certain response you get with a tube | amp vs digital and solid state. | | As an HN reader, I struggle to describe and quantify this | quality besides the generic descriptors of 'response' and | 'feel'. | jbverschoor wrote: | You're only able to hear these differences if you use silver | cables made by elves under the moonlight! | stirfish wrote: | Some cheap (or expensive but old) pickups rattle when you shake | them. Here's a tutorial on "repotting" some pickups in wax to | fix this. | | https://www.projectguitar.com/tutorials/electronics/repottin... | | You don't have to be a cork sniffer to hear small things affect | your tone. You just have to play very loudly on half-broken | instruments - which isn't everyone's cup of tea. | jollybean wrote: | Small point - 'tube amps' unconditionally sound better than | solid state. It's a marked difference that doesn't really | require a trained ear or anything, if you played a few chords | on a 'warmed up tube amp' vs. 'solid state' to someone who's | never seen an electric guitar in real life, they'd be able to | hear the difference. | somebodythere wrote: | They sound "different", but not "unconditionally better", and | it's not something you can't replicate in the signal path... | jollybean wrote: | The difference is unambiguous and players overwhelmingly | chose tubes, all other things being equal (i.e. cost, | hassle). Unless you're playing maybe a very clean sound | (jazz?) without the most remote hint of warmth or | distortion, tubes are it. | | It's ridiculous that someone would call out 'tubes' as | somehow being a kind of nerdy/fake/poseur guitarist | connoisseur melodrama. It's literally the most important | point differentiation of amps, to the point that almost all | tube amps sound better than almost all solid state (at | least in the same class). | | While someone might possibly take umbrage that 'tubes are | not _always_ better ' - there's basically no room for | someone to say it's a 'petty concern'. | dr_hooo wrote: | A trained guitarist's ear might notice the difference, but I | highly doubt a crow would care. Also you are overstating the | difference, and by no means is your opinion uncontested (just | putting this out for the non-guitarists in the HN crowd). | Even for those who can identify and prefer the tube sounds, | digital modellers like Kemper do exist and do exist and seem | to do a fine job in blind tests (see for example Anderton's | on youtube). | tohnjitor wrote: | Are crows known for their hearing? | frenchie4111 wrote: | Yeah, maybe they aren't that important. Using guitar forums as | my source of truth maybe isn't the best. In any case, I have | them on my guitar :) | [deleted] | analog31 wrote: | I'm an electric bassist, and springy pickups unnerve me. For | one thing, I sometimes rest my thumb on the pickup. So I've | replaced the springs with hard spacers, cut to the desired | length. As a result, my pickups are solid, and not adjustable. | | For another thing, the foam turns into goo after 40 years, | which is how long it's been since I set up the instrument. | dehrmann wrote: | > Lately I've been learning to play guitar. I wanted to be able | to try out a bunch of different pickups on my guitar, to get a | feel for what sound I prefer. | | I've been playing for over 10 years, and I still don't really | care. I have a strat with the standard three single-coil pickups | and a Gibson with two humbuckers. I'm sure it makes some | difference, but where I'm at, I can't hear enough of a difference | beyond the big things that it just doesn't matter. | hctaw wrote: | It makes a big difference if you have a good amp that doesn't | have a dull preamp stage. Some of the newer tube designs are | extremely responsive to a change in how they're loaded (same | goes for all the shitty unbuffered drive pedals that | inexplicably sound good). | | In my rig I have an SSH guitar with a higher output neck and | bridge with a coil tap and run it straight into a blackstar | HT40. The pickup selection and volume knob give me all my | clean/dirty/overdriven tones without pedals, so there's less | noise and less that can fail. It would be really hard to | achieve that without the time I spent to find a set of pickups | that works. | inetsee wrote: | I'm 70 years old. My ability to hear subtle differences in | sound is probably at least 20 or more years in my past. This is | why I have no intention of buying a PonoPlayer, or any of the | other outrageously expensive high resolution music players. | dehrmann wrote: | > This is why I have no intention of buying a PonoPlayer | | Also Nyquist-Shannon. | jolux wrote: | I think Stratocaster single-coils and Gibson humbuckers cover | almost all of the sounds you can get out of an electric guitar. | The bridge pickup on a Telecaster is overwound and a bit louder | than the bridge on a Strat, but the difference is pretty subtle | if the Strat is setup correctly. The only other really distinct | sound is the P-90, but it's not nearly as common as the other | two, and it's also a variation on single-coil tone. | TylerE wrote: | You're really selling it short. | | Even amongst fairly traditional humbuckers, there is a huge | range...compare an Alnico 2 humbucker wound to say 5kohm with | a 20k ceramic... | jolux wrote: | That's true, overall resistance makes a huge difference. | dehrmann wrote: | How do P-90's compare to a humbucker with a coil tap? | wk_end wrote: | You usually split a humbucker rather than tap it. Either | way, that'll give you a lot less grunt than a P-90, which | are just as hot or hotter than the average PAF-style | humbucker with both coils going. | YZF wrote: | Often the cheap necks can be made quite nicer with a bit of extra | fret work. If the edges feel sharp then it's a matter of | filing/sanding them to get them smoother. If there's buzzing then | re-level and re-crown. There is a wealth of information on guitar | building. If you want a bigger challenge, build your own neck. It | is doable with hand tools though the right power tools certainly | make it easier. | | If you want to drill straight holes without a drill press there's | this little guide doohickey you can buy that you hold against the | piece and put your drill bit through the guide. | duncan-donuts wrote: | Another trick for straight holes is to put something on the bit | (like a washer or something that moves freely) and it should | stay in the same spot. If it slides forward/backward the bit | isn't level. This probably isn't a good technique for drilling | pilot holes for a neck but it works well for things where a | Good Enough(tm) tolerance is acceptable. | frenchie4111 wrote: | Thanks for the tips! I actually tried the guide doohickey but I | still failed to get good straight holes. The hard part was that | the guitar is not a really level surface to rest the guide on, | so I had some complication getting it to sit well. | YZF wrote: | That's where the hand plane comes into play ;) I've also | started building guitars during the pandemic. Lots of fun! | I'm on my third. | vr46 wrote: | An interesting idea, but not convinced, as they don't look very | adjustable for height, for example, my Tele pickups are higher on | the treble side, compensating somewhat for the higher output of | the bigger strings. You could cut this into the mount, but that | defeats the purpose of being able to test things quickly, the | moment one variable is fixed, you have an instant constraint. | This experiment is a trade-off, I get that. He's not an | experienced guitar player and wants to fiddle with pickups. Fine, | enjoy, EVH was all about getting the sound to match what's in his | head anyway, whatever it took. | frenchie4111 wrote: | They have the same height adjustment options that most guitar | pickups do, the pickups are held on to the mount with two | screws and you can screw in/out to adjust the height | accordingly. It works in reverse of the normal system since the | screws are backwards, but it works ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-05-02 23:00 UTC)