[HN Gopher] Canadians fly south for shot as US demand falls
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Canadians fly south for shot as US demand falls
Author : adventured
Score : 48 points
Date : 2021-05-05 22:28 UTC (31 minutes ago)
(HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
| arecurrence wrote:
| With America pumping out 4 million doses a day... Canada can be
| inoculated in a single week. Expect to see that gap crumble over
| the next two months and with lower vaccine hesitancy... Canada
| will likely cross the finish line before America.
| version_five wrote:
| I'm Canadian and I have been seriously considering moving to the
| US for a few months now. It may just be "grass is always greener"
| but after some initial criticism, it seems like the US has
| handled this so much better than we have, people are getting back
| to normal there while our governments continue to add
| restrictions. I didn't realize we were only at 3% vaccinated, but
| that is an absolute embarrassment. I'd be curious to hear
| American or other outside perception of how we have handled it.
| abduhl wrote:
| American viewpoints all fall pretty much along political
| idealogical lines with when it all went wrong but I think that
| most Americans agree that America is "doing terrible" and the
| only real debate is who is to blame. Shitting on America has
| become America's past time and any kind of national pride is
| met with staunch criticism or "cancellation." I think your
| viewpoint is somewhat a "grass is greener" viewpoint being
| Canadian and any particular American's view on Canada's
| response will be in line with their political party.
|
| Objectively we are probably doing the best in the world at
| vaccinating such a large and diverse population. You'll never
| hear one of us admit it though and if you do then you can be
| sure to hear it followed up with a "but" denigrating ourselves
| in some other way. Objectively Canada is doing terribly at
| vaccination and it boggles the mind that your country is still
| having to impose strict lockdowns and go off the label with
| dosing timelines because of your inability to secure a supply.
| elevenoh wrote:
| example of your point on politicized viewpoints:
| Ericson2314's comment in this thread
| tobyjsullivan wrote:
| The 3% is people who have had both doses. If you live in
| Canada, then you know that almost nobody has had both doses.
| That's not our priority - maximizing collective protection is
| the short-term goal.
|
| Personally, I'll measure Canada's performance throughout this
| pandemic by the final number of per-capita deaths. We're hardly
| best in the world but doing a lot better than the US so far
| (1,783/M vs 643/M at the moment[0]).
|
| [0] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
|
| Edit to add: Canada could easily take the lead over US in
| deaths/M if US get's vaccinated faster/better. I'm not so naive
| to believe that's impossible. It does seem Canada has a
| strategy to avoid that. Otherwise, it simply seems too early to
| call either way.
| elevenoh wrote:
| >Personally, I'll measure Canada's performance throughout
| this pandemic by the final number of per-capita deaths.
|
| How about in relation to the cost & externalities of this
| per-capita death figure? Financially, socially etc.
|
| It's as though there's no adults in the room willing to speak
| to tradeoffs - the pernicious, long-term 2nd+ order
| consequences to be considered.
| totony wrote:
| >Personally, I'll measure Canada's performance throughout
| this pandemic by the final number of per-capita deaths.
|
| That doesn't seem like a good measure. At the extreme,
| enforcing a stay-at-home order would make this number 0, but
| a lot of people would argue this wasn't "good performance."
| elevenoh wrote:
| Canada needs more competition in the health care industry.
|
| There's very little.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| US did ~~everything~~ many, many things wrong, except the one
| thing we know to do --- throw money at medical problems ---
| actually works for vaccines because vaccines are such a
| phenomenal piece of technology.
|
| Looks like vaccine IP restriction lifting is finally going to
| happen. I would stay put in non-US places.
| elevenoh wrote:
| >US did everything wrong, except the one thing we know to do
|
| Such a political take. The US did a lot right.
| tick_tock_tick wrote:
| Our media (US that is) seems to pick and choose which counties
| are "handing it well" seemly with little regard to statistics.
| Canada has largely been portrayed as handling the whole
| situation very well and if you polled random people on the
| street of a US city I'd be willing to bet quite a bit they
| think your vaccine rates are comparable or better then the US.
| Baeocystin wrote:
| Honestly, in this case, think it just comes down to money.
| Whatever the other problems with the American handling of it
| (and my god was it disorganized) The US _also_ threw 800-pound-
| gorilla levels of cash at the manufacturers, and since the
| vaccines turned out to be good, it worked out. Smaller
| economies just didn 't have that as an option, whether the
| policy-makers wanted it or not.
| petertodd wrote:
| Canada is at 3% fully vaccinated, with both doses (almost all
| the vaccination has been with 2 dose vaccines). However, 35%
| have received one dose out of two.
|
| Canada could have chosen to vaccinate about 15% of the
| population fully, which would have been enough for the
| supermajority of the >65 population that is responsible for
| almost all of the deaths. But we chose not to. Whether or not
| that is the right choice remains to be seen.
| barney54 wrote:
| I thought Canada was handling COVID well and then there was the
| latest round of lockdowns and restrictions which is bonkers.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| It seems like Canada is prioritizing a "first dose first"
| strategy, so I think the 34% number should be compared with the
| 56% in the US.
|
| The US has done very well with vaccines so far, but in terms of
| (in my view) the real number for success (deaths per capita),
| the US has had 3x as many.
| sparrc wrote:
| The vaccine rollout has been great in the US. The anti-masking
| and politicizing of the pandemic has been terrible.
|
| I guess the deaths per capita will be fairly high in the US but
| it varies a lot from place to place. Many places did very
| little lockdown and more-or-less carried on with life as usual.
| CountDrewku wrote:
| Your country's response to COVID frankly terrifies me. The
| police showing up and arresting maskless people, shutting down
| businesses, raiding churches. The vaccine response seems piss
| poor as well.
|
| I realize the media sensationalizes a lot of this but from the
| outside it doesn't look good. I know the US is seen as not
| doing enough but I prefer that over the authoritarian
| responses.
|
| We certainly have our issues but for now we still hold people's
| personal freedoms at a high level. I live in a somewhat rural
| area but I haven't had to wear a mask in most places for about
| a month, I've been vaccinated for over a month and I've been
| out enjoying beers etc. like normal for the last several weeks.
| [deleted]
| dominojab wrote:
| top notch propaganda
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| During the pandemic we kept hearing that collectivist cultures
| and socialized medicine would have the upper-hand. Yet Canada's
| vaccination rate is abysmal (32% vs 2.55% are completely covered
| with the required two doses [0]) when compared to the United
| States.
|
| What's the explanation here?
|
| [0] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-
| vaccina...
| whimsicalism wrote:
| If you are short on vaccines, first dose first is the obvious
| strategy, so you hsouldn't compare complete coverage.
|
| Canada has had 3x fewer deaths per capita, so I would still say
| they are a success case compared to us.
| totony wrote:
| >During the pandemic we kept hearing that collectivist cultures
| and socialized medicine would have the upper-hand.
|
| You would think that the contrary would be true. If your health
| system is overloaded, it being socialized cannot make it better
| at first glance. Access isn't the issue, availability is (and
| this is what is seen in Canada right now).
|
| Although I agree collectivist cultures probably have the upper-
| hand (e.g. China was able to enforce pretty stringent measures
| and pool resources to build hospitals).
| cli wrote:
| A few months ago, the Canadian government chose to prioritize
| first doses first. I know the BC government changed their
| vaccination schedule after this announcement such that everyone
| should be able to get their first dose by June or July.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26360556
| fighterpilot wrote:
| Everyone is equally unvaccinated.
| anonuser123456 wrote:
| >What's the explanation here?
|
| Incentives matter?
| CaveTech wrote:
| Canada does not have any production facilities and has been
| unable to give vaccinations as a result. Our daily vaccinations
| per capita are nearing or exceeding the US at this time and we
| are accelerating as we receive more doses. 2nd doses have been
| delayed to ensure maximum efficiency of the supply we have.
| ThrustVectoring wrote:
| The US government threw its weight around to ensure that it
| would have manufacturing capability and doses. If Canada
| physically had more doses, they'd have more shots in arms.
| sueders101 wrote:
| Canada doesn't have the ability to manufacture the vaccines.
| The United States does. The United Kingdom also has
| manufacturing capabilities and has had a strong vaccine
| rollout.
| dnautics wrote:
| it's not like there is one manufacturer. the vaccine
| manufacturers contract out to a bunch of small contract
| chemists to get it done. Surprising that there aren't any at
| all in canada.
| version_five wrote:
| Not to mention, my perception (and maybe it's only that) is
| that socialized healthcare is being used as an extra excuse for
| putting restrictions on what we can do, because we are all
| dependent on the state and they can't take care of us
| adequately. I know there is more subtlety than that, but
| personally I only see that socialized healthcare can be
| compatible with free society when it is completely decoupled
| from telling people how to behave
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| It would be great to get perspective from Canadians on the case.
| Why is Canada, a country with wealth, in the current situation?
|
| national health agency failure in planning?
|
| supply chain constraints?
|
| Import constraints (even though there are plenty across the
| border?)?
|
| Something else?
| mynegation wrote:
| 1. We do not have our own plants capable of producing covid
| vaccines. 2. United States stopped all vaccine exports. We got
| all vaccines from Europe. 3. We did not pay producers through
| the nose like UK or Israel did which affected our place in the
| queue.
| rched wrote:
| Short answer: import constraints.
|
| Canada, like many countries, does not have the capacity to
| manufacture vaccines at scale. Our vaccine supply comes from
| over seas. Up to now the United States has not allowed vaccines
| to be exported to other countries so most of them come from
| Europe.
| kuschku wrote:
| The US doesn't export any COVID vaccines. Neither does the UK.
| Pretty much the entire rest of the world is supplied by
| Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany. (Russia and China are
| exceptions).
| lucb1e wrote:
| Isn't it a lot more efficient to ship the doses north than the
| Canadians south?
| [deleted]
| kuschku wrote:
| It would be, but the US has an export ban on covid vaccines,
| just like the UK does.
| lhorie wrote:
| I'm extremely unimpressed with the vaccination rate in Canada. I
| feel like they really dropped the ball.
|
| > The trick was to fly because land crossing has been closed to
| non-essential traffic since March of 2020.
|
| Is this right? It doesn't jive with my experience. I was able to
| cross the land border - both ways - around August.
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(page generated 2021-05-05 23:00 UTC)