[HN Gopher] Samsung to jump into laptop processor market with Ex...
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Samsung to jump into laptop processor market with Exynos chip in H2
Author : cbg0
Score : 110 points
Date : 2021-05-10 20:26 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kedglobal.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kedglobal.com)
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| What, their chips aren't good enough for their own phones, but
| they think they're good enough for dedicated laptops?
| wmf wrote:
| The previous N generations of Exynos weren't good but _this
| time_ will be different. Because AMD is magic sauce or
| something.
| 3836293648 wrote:
| They _do_ use their own chips in their own phones. Just not in
| every market
| moooo99 wrote:
| I think the original comment was referring to the initial
| backlash Samsung received after putting inferior Exynos Chips
| into non-US devices, that were significantly less performant
| while drawing more power than the devices with the Qualcomm
| counterpart.
| ripdog wrote:
| The latest exynos chip replaced Samsung's custom CPU designs
| with stock ARM ones, presumably because exynos variants of
| the S20 lagged far behind the snapdragon variants in
| performance and battery life.
| willtim wrote:
| They ditched their own inferior custom core design and now use
| ARM Cortex X1.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| They already run a Samsung desktop called "Dex" on their
| phones.
| nullify88 wrote:
| They also had Linux on Dex which was a full Linux desktop
| environment. Unfortunately it never left beta and was killed
| off.
| wvenable wrote:
| I think ultimately they couldn't make it compatible with
| Android 10 and that lead to its demise.
| kube-system wrote:
| Yeah, this phone: https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/7821516
|
| Probably has plenty more power than this laptop:
| https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/7185745
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| I have a Samsung Chromebook with a Rokchip ARM processor. Its 3
| years old and is still blazing fast, with multiple tabs open,
| video conferencing etc with amazing battery life. Would be nice
| to see what they can do with their own chips.
| megous wrote:
| I wouldn't call RK3399 blazing fast, but it's quite usable.
| wffurr wrote:
| The GPU in that chip is so slow it can't fill the screen with
| a solid color at 60 Hz.
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| True, for me it I should have put in bold that for a 3 year
| old device its fast. Based on what I do with it as described
| above it does the job without having me to throw it against a
| window since its slow
| wodenokoto wrote:
| will it run windows or what is their aim?
| squiggleblaz wrote:
| FTA: "If the product hits the market, Samsung would become the
| first modern Windows laptop manufacturer to launch its own
| processor that works as the brain in its machines."
|
| That doesn't actually tell you what OS they're using, and it
| could just be the journalist trying to indicate how Samsung is
| the first at what Apple already did.
|
| But Windows 10 does run on ARM as long as you're willing to use
| "modern" apps only. I suppose this won't be a machine
| developers will be excited by, as excited as some of us want to
| be.
| flatiron wrote:
| Probably chromeos
| AmVess wrote:
| Likely Windows ARM. It should prove to be a stout upgrade to
| the units MS currently uses in their ARM laptops.
| reader_mode wrote:
| I'm more interested in their new 360 laptops, those screens look
| amazing and 11gen Intel CPUs are tolerable from what I've seen,
| the iGPUs are decent enough to drive 5k monitor.
|
| I would like an ARM option but I'm afraid nobody is getting close
| to M1 soon, going on the rest of the ARM ecosystem track record
| these will be considerably worse than X86. Unfortunately Apple
| isn't big on providing choices or canibalizing iOS market where
| they get a 30% cut of everything going on the device so I have to
| hope companies like Samsung get it right.
| walterbell wrote:
| _> nobody is getting close to M1 soon_
|
| Except the former M1 team that founded Nuvia, soon to ship
| Qualcomm's laptop SoC.
| reader_mode wrote:
| >The first Qualcomm Snapdragon platforms to feature Qualcomm
| Technologies' new internally designed CPUs are expected to
| sample in the second half of 2022 and will be designed for
| high-performance ultraportable laptops
|
| So they will have enginering samples by the end of next year
| ? When I said soon I sort of meant in the two year period, in
| the long run Intel is likely to catch up on the process as
| well - but devices shipping in the next 2 years will be
| underperforming compared to Apple M processors.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Interesting, since this didn't happen after the Surface debut but
| did happen after the Macbook debut. Of course the processors are
| better now.
| cbg0 wrote:
| The real meat of the story:
|
| > The new Exynos chip for laptops will use the graphics
| processing unit (GPU) jointly developed with US semiconductor
| company Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (AMD) to offer improved
| graphical technology, according to the sources.
| kevingadd wrote:
| Hopefully this means ARM chips will finally have a good GPU
| option that has high quality open drivers
| rektide wrote:
| It's kind of amazing that Nvidia is so widely reviled for
| frustrating agonizing drivers filled with blobs, while ARM
| has been around providing no help, no docs, no assistance, no
| drivers, what-so-ever for over a decade. No one's been
| thrilled, but basically doing nothing has been more effective
| PR than doing a so-so job.
|
| The situation has changed somewhat recently, but basically
| only after the reverse engineering efforts succeeded & were
| fully operational.
| wmf wrote:
| Android is a hellscape of proprietary drivers but desktop
| Linux is basically down to one: Nvidia. It stands out more
| because it's the last holdout.
| not2b wrote:
| Desktop Linux on ARM is in a similar situation to Nvidia,
| with the proprietary Mali drivers from ARM vs the
| incomplete reverse-engineered Panfrost / Lima open source
| drivers.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| ARM has plenty of docs, sources, etc. for its Mali GPU:
| https://developer.arm.com/ip-products/graphics-and-
| multimedi... Their GPU drivers are even distributed by
| Debian: https://wiki.debian.org/MaliGraphics
|
| You are probably conflating vendors like Broadcom who
| license the ARM ISA and processor IP but add their own
| (closed) GPU to SoCs they produce, like those used in the
| Raspberry Pi.
|
| Remember ARM is just a company that license and sell an ISA
| and chip design. It's up to system integrators to turn
| those designs into physical chips, and sadly we have seen
| many of them don't value making their designs available to
| open source, etc. The solution to this is to not support
| those vendors, not to complain at ARM.
| stefan_ wrote:
| Mali is every bit as proprietary as Nvidia.
| abrowne wrote:
| Huawei as well, at least in China, and with a Linux OS:
|
| > _Huawei launches a Linux laptop with an ARM-based Kirin 990
| processor
|
| > Now Huawei has launched its first laptop that doesn't feature
| an Intel or AMD chip. The Huawei Qingyun L410 is powered by
| Huwaei's own Kirin 990 processor, an ARM-based chip that was
| initially developed for smartphones and tablets._
|
| https://liliputing.com/2021/05/huawei-launches-a-linux-lapto...
| toxik wrote:
| Truly the year of desktop Linux is soon here!
| tbihl wrote:
| Always is.
| earthscienceman wrote:
| To be fair to linux, this time _could_ actually be
| different with a market shift as big as this. The biggest
| reason(s) Windows wins consistently is backwards
| compatibility and a large suite of software /apps. Windows
| for ARM kills these advantages. If ARM is the future, the
| playing field is being leveled significantly.
| dontblink wrote:
| Gaming is the thing that locks a lot of us into Windows.
| Direct3D really has allowed MS to keep the Desktop
| Windows as a monopoly IMHO (in addition to what you have
| said).
| pjmlp wrote:
| It helps that OpenGL is an API designed by committee,
| where the amount of extensions means having to code
| multiple paths anyway, depending on the card, driver and
| OS.
|
| Vulkan isn't any better, just the bare basic and then
| extension loading fun.
|
| Game developers tend to prefer proprietary APIs because
| vendors actually care about the overall development
| experience end to end, instead of expecting the community
| to come up with something.
| bri3d wrote:
| Windows for ARM has mostly-working compatibility with x86
| and x86-64 Windows apps. It's not as good as Rosetta 2 on
| M1, but it's present and functional - so the app suite is
| still an advantage.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| For that to happen, we'd need a company to invest into good
| UI/UX. As long as I have to DuckDuck to find the button for
| creating a new folder in Nautilus ... desktop Linux will
| remain a niche.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| There's plenty of good UI/UX outside of GNOME. Personally I
| find the UI/UX in KDE to be better than Windows and macOS's
| desktop managers. Each to their own and all that though.
| meibo wrote:
| Look at Chinese Android phones: They get away with slapping
| an unresponsive and confusing shell onto their phones and
| still sell millions.
|
| I wouldn't be surprised if this will happen for Laptops
| soon as well, with custom in-house DEs. Imagine that
| Chinese OEMs will be happy to get rid of Windows.
| lobstrosity420 wrote:
| >As long as I have to DuckDuck to find the button for
| creating a new folder in Nautilus
|
| Lol. Hyperbole or brain damage?
| redisman wrote:
| Ubuntu is pretty much there UI/UX wise for example. If
| Samsung provides top notch firmware then I don't see any
| problems with a Linux laptop and would want one myself
| golergka wrote:
| Don't most of consumer Linux laptops just get pirated windows
| installed on them?
| vitus wrote:
| > In November 2020, Apple Inc. launched the M1 chip, a desktop-
| and laptop-grade systems-on-chip (SoC) based on a British
| processor architecture known as ARM.
|
| Seems strange to call this out and not mention that the Exynos
| SoC is also based on ARM.
| als0 wrote:
| It wasn't too long ago that Samsung Chromebooks were powered by
| an Exynos. Even a lightweight system like ChromeOS was quite
| slow...
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks
|
| The 2.5 year old XR is faster than Android flagships.
|
| I wonder what tricks Samsung has to close the gap.
| kube-system wrote:
| I bet the trick is that the new exynos laptops are just like
| the old ones: low end.
| panny wrote:
| It is telling that there are many obvious ARM fans in this
| thread, but not a lot of proud M1 owners. It seems Apple really
| screwed the pooch by failing to ship some sort of bootcamp for M1
| to make Linux possible.
| Animats wrote:
| It took a while to find that this is a Cortex ARM CPU.
| trynumber9 wrote:
| I would have thought AMD's licensing agreement would prohibit
| Samsung products including Navi 2 from competing with AMD's own
| laptop-focused products (Cezanne & rumored Rembrandt).
|
| >AMD will license custom graphics IP based on the recently
| announced, highly-scalable RDNA graphics architecture to Samsung
| for use in mobile devices, including smartphones, and other
| products that complement AMD product offerings.
|
| So I would only expect this in Samsung laptops, where so far they
| have been hesitant to use AMD SoCs.
| demarq wrote:
| I think it's a customers first approach, much like Rimac
| selling vehicle technologies directly to it's competitors
| Philip-J-Fry wrote:
| I doubt Samsung is gonna come even close to Apple in performance.
| But perhaps getting decent ARM processors in laptops will mean we
| get battery life that is actually good.
|
| It's hard to believe that you can use a mobile phone with a high
| resolution screen and get 8 hours SOT with a varied workload. But
| browse the web in Chrome on a 2020 Intel or AMD based Windows
| laptop with a 1080p screen and see that your battery life doesn't
| even come close. Despite a much larger battery.
| drcode wrote:
| It seems to me M1-style performance should be easy to achieve
| for other large companies with access to decent foundries...
| one would think Samsung could just use a similar ARM core, then
| study the design of the M1 to come up with a competitive cache
| design. (but I'm no expert, happy to have someone correct my
| view with better information)
| read_if_gay_ wrote:
| If that were the case Apple couldn't have maintained a huge
| performance lead in smartphone CPUs for half a decade.
| valuearb wrote:
| If it was that easy Exynos wouldn't already lag the A14 so
| badly.
|
| It should gain maybe 15% in a smaller process, but has a lot
| farther to go.
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Is this a problem with processors, or with Chrome?
|
| Even on Intel MacBooks, battery life while using Safari is far
| better than while using Chrome.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| Samsung's custom cores haven't been competitive with Qualcomm
| so far, much less Apple.
|
| You only have to look at comparisons between the Surface Pro X
| and the M1 Macbook Air to see how far behind Qualcomm is.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA
| akvadrako wrote:
| Hopefully this is competitive with the A1. I would really like to
| use something non x86 as my daily driver just for the feeling of
| moving forward.
| ChildOfChaos wrote:
| Well duh. Apple released a laptop processor last year, so of
| course Samsung are doing one.
|
| Samsung tags soon no doubt.
| oyagci wrote:
| Samsung Galaxy SmartTags exist since January 2020
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| January 2021? https://www.techradar.com/news/samsung-galaxy-
| smarttag-relea...
| wayneftw wrote:
| > The device was announced at Samsung's Galaxy Unpacked
| event on January 14, 2020.
|
| - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_SmartTag
| deep-root wrote:
| AirTags were leaked via trademark in 2019.[1] Tile has
| been around since 2012.[2] Someone on HN said something
| about whistling in the 80s.[3] Who did it first?
|
| [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2019/10/28/airtag-
| trademark/ [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tile_(company) [3]
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27106048
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| And the Galaxy Book S was already announced with ARM in
| August 2019.
|
| 1 year before Apple's announcement with the ARM six.
|
| Edit: And a Samsung Chromebook with a Rokchip ARM is in the
| market since January 2017...
| kbenson wrote:
| Rarely is Apple the first to do something. Usually they're the
| first to do it well, with high quality, and when they think the
| market is there for it to become more ubiquitous. Sometimes
| they'll pull a few things together that weren't previously, but
| for the most part they excel at providing a polished, high
| quality experience for something that already existed.
| deep-root wrote:
| Perhaps they're referring to things Apple does that don't
| involve "doing it well", such as removing headphone jacks or
| USB power adapters, or adding the iPhone notch.
|
| Samsung marketing team had field days on each of these moves,
| then the following release cycle their products did the same.
| mrgordon wrote:
| This doesn't change the fact that Samsung always immediately
| clones whatever Apple does
| tooltalk wrote:
| How is that possible when Apple's clone is based on
| whatever Samsung already announced/releaseD?
| whatshisface wrote:
| They copy each other but make minor errors in each copy.
| The fitter copies survive. That's called "evolution by
| natural selection."
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| Both examples ( arm laptop and tags) was literally already
| done by Samsung ..
|
| Samsung was also earlier with the smartwatch for example.
| What else in the past 10 years? Earbuds!
|
| Note: iPad and IPhone was earlier, but that's already more
| than 10 years ago. Where the first tablet was way ahead of
| it's time: 1989 with the GRiDPad 1900.
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