[HN Gopher] Umami - An alternative to Google Analytics
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       Umami - An alternative to Google Analytics
        
       Author : sandebert
       Score  : 167 points
       Date   : 2021-05-17 09:44 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | HuwFulcher wrote:
       | What is the edge of this over competitors like Plausible or
       | Fathom? They look the same and seem to offer exactly the same
       | features
        
       | mrwnmonm wrote:
       | Uses Chartjs?
        
       | preya2k wrote:
       | I recently switched from Matomo to Umami and I don't regret it at
       | all. Of course Matomo can do a lot more, but Umami is perfect for
       | my use case and a lot less work to maintain and host than Matomo.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | Why do you say that? I'm using Matomo right now and it I don't
         | recall having to maintain it, other than applying the
         | occasional upgrade it asks for.
         | 
         | I admit that Umami is pretty, though!
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Previous Discussions
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24198329
       | 
       | Edit: LOL, why is top Referrer from pornhub.com ?
        
         | Retr0spectrum wrote:
         | At time of writing, pornhub.com has 69 referrals - I suppose
         | someone was just having a laugh.
        
           | Seirdy wrote:
           | It's not uncommon for people to spoof their referrer headers
           | to a site they want to promote or to shock content. I ended
           | up watching the Simpson's Couch Gag "You're Next" episode
           | because it showed up in my access logs at least 50 times, for
           | instance.
        
         | cdubzzz wrote:
         | Damnit I clicked that thinking it would drill down or
         | something, not load the page. Sorry, IT.
        
       | francislavoie wrote:
       | Also: https://usefathom.com/
        
         | listenallyall wrote:
         | Under-featured and over-priced
        
       | cbsmith wrote:
       | In a similar vein: https://divolte.io/
        
       | benjaminjosephw wrote:
       | I know visitor stats has been a long-established expectation of
       | the web publishers but, silly question, why? Is it primarily
       | curiosity or are there genuine operational concerns which aren't
       | possible with stats from the server itself?
        
         | hansvm wrote:
         | Dwell time is challenging to pull out from server logs without
         | constant interaction. E.g., if a landing page has a low
         | conversion rate, your solutions are going to be pretty
         | different if you're trying to solve users immediately bouncing,
         | reading the whole thing and bouncing, or scrolling to some
         | particular piece of content and bouncing.
         | 
         | There's also an implicit assumption in your question that every
         | notable user event has an associated server-side request. If
         | page changes and whatnot are being handled completely client-
         | side after the first request you might need a little extra
         | monitoring just to get the same level of detail you would
         | otherwise have from traditional server logs.
         | 
         | I could be wrong here, but I think the big feature in client-
         | side analytics isn't that they offer some sort of special data
         | or insight; the selling point is that anyone can add them to
         | basically any web hosting solution (including CDNs you don't
         | control or random WordPress sites) with a single copy/paste. It
         | optimizes ease of adoption _at the cost of_ probably better
         | analytics.
         | 
         | Elaborating on that "better analytics" point -- the web is
         | varied enough that even if you want to track your users'
         | activities it's really hard to interpret client-side data
         | correctly. E.g., in the landing page example above, if your
         | heartbeats stop hitting the server did the user navigate away
         | or did they go to another tab for a bit? In that same example,
         | are your heartbeats going through because the user is reading
         | and pondering your content or because they've gone to make a
         | sandwich (you can disambiguate this a bit if you also keep
         | track of something like the last time the user did something,
         | but it's not perfect)? On top of that, you don't get metrics
         | from people with JS disabled, with certain DNS blocklists,
         | people with slow connections, etc.
        
           | asciident wrote:
           | It looks like Umami does some of that. But I found that
           | Google Analytics does none of it, and in fact year-over-year
           | seems to cut back on the amount of useful information. The
           | main advantage now is they show referring search terms, which
           | servers logs would show, but they broke that on purpose with
           | their search result self-referring links.
        
           | benjaminjosephw wrote:
           | Is dwell time a meaningful/valuable metric to track? I
           | consistently open links in tabs I keep open for a long time
           | and I suspect other people might do the same. Like you said,
           | it's really hard to interpret this data, so why bother
           | trying?
           | 
           | I think you're right about the ease of adoption aspect. My
           | take is that we do it because we've always done it -
           | primarily because the cost/benefit ratio has justified it.
           | We've normalized the idea that it's not only acceptable but
           | also prudent to study and analyze the detailed behavior of
           | end-users. The consensus seems to be that not adding end-user
           | tracking is similar to "leaving money on the table".
           | 
           | On reflection, I'm starting to feel that it's perhaps not an
           | acceptable set of norms to accept without a justified need.
           | Some metrics seem almost voyeuristic and most imply an
           | approach to content marketing that only snake-oil salesmen
           | should consider. The use of analytics itself implies a
           | certain potential for inauthentic or intentionally
           | manipulative content. Optimizing content to have as much
           | mass-appeal as possible is perhaps more problematic than we
           | initially thought.
           | 
           | Maybe it's time we rethink the norm in the first place.
           | Perhaps it's better to not know everything.
        
             | hansvm wrote:
             | > Is dwell time a meaningful/valuable metric to track?
             | 
             | Like most other questions of this nature, the answer is
             | "maybe." Throwing out one possible scenario: We know some
             | people keep tabs open for a long time. Does our dwell time
             | data reflect that? If not then that's a red flag that we
             | have work to do (maybe a memory leak from some framework
             | lifecycle issue makes our page prone to crashes or being
             | manually closed, maybe the content is such hot garbage that
             | nobody thinks it's worth even keeping a background tab open
             | with our site, ...).
             | 
             | > Like you said, it's really hard to interpret this data,
             | so why bother trying?
             | 
             | Something can have a lot of value without that value being
             | easy to extract. Like...I'm sure Amazon has detailed
             | metrics about every mouse and keyboard event associated
             | with any pixel with the gall to glance sideways at the
             | shopping cart. It's probably hard to use correctly, but
             | when a 1% increase can pay for hundreds or thousands of
             | dedicated engineers and scientists the ease of
             | interpretation starts to not matter as much.
             | 
             | > I'm starting to feel that it's perhaps not an acceptable
             | set of norms to accept without a justified need
             | 
             | I'll need to think on it further, but on the surface that
             | seems like a reasonable baseline. If you don't at a bare
             | minimum know enough about your business and the data in
             | question to be able to anticipate some actionable way you
             | might actually need the data you want to collect then
             | you'll probably do more harm than good for yourself and
             | your users by collecting it.
        
       | ahstilde wrote:
       | Just use Parse.ly and make your life easier.
        
         | Saris wrote:
         | Not considering it since they don't publish pricing.
        
         | wussboy wrote:
         | Their pricing page doesn't have any pricing. It shows three
         | tiers, each one without a price, and when you click to "learn
         | more" it asks you to fill out your personal information. I'm
         | not impressed.
        
       | catinblack wrote:
       | https://piwik.pro/ You should also check this one
        
       | stanislavb wrote:
       | Umami seems great! However, if you are interested in an
       | alternative in a different programming language (non JS), you can
       | check out LibHunt https://www.libhunt.com/r/umami
        
       | doo_daa wrote:
       | Your faq says that "Umami does not use any cookies" so how do you
       | get the count of Visitors on your geo breakdown part of the
       | report?
        
         | yorwba wrote:
         | By combining the request's IP, user agent and OS to create a
         | unique session ID:
         | https://github.com/mikecao/umami/blob/f8ac987bfc0df581721bd2...
         | 
         | This will undercount some visitors and overcount others, but it
         | should be good enough for most purposes.
        
           | kevinbowman wrote:
           | Interestingly, the OS is detected from the user agent, so
           | really it's only hashing the IP and the user agent.
        
           | lucasmullens wrote:
           | So an entire school district would be the same user?
           | 
           | Seems reasonable for most cases, but if you're a website
           | that's used a lot by schools or businesses, they might have
           | every computer using the same user agent and IP.
        
           | esrh wrote:
           | This is unfortunate in a way because it's easy to deny
           | cookiee but hard to spoof all of those
        
       | Shorel wrote:
       | Another pollution of the search space.
       | 
       | Now when I am looking for flavour profiles I will get SEO
       | nonsense.
       | 
       | Also true the other way around.
        
       | mrwnmonm wrote:
       | Why is pornhub in the Referrers list?
        
       | johbjo wrote:
       | The value google provides here is not the technology, but a
       | "neutral" external partner. It means that bosses do not need to
       | elevate anyone's responsibilities to some niche (but probably
       | better) alternative tool.
       | 
       | It's the same with most standard tools or outsourcing partners.
       | The point is not so much "no one got fired for choosing IBM",
       | it's that IBM is customer to the boss, not the subordinate.
       | 
       | A big value in SaaS is that it allows the boss to have the
       | highest privileges in all systems.
        
       | IceWreck wrote:
       | If you want something more lightweight and easier to selfhost, I
       | recently discovered https://www.goatcounter.com/
        
         | nvr219 wrote:
         | Yes I've been using goatcounter and it's very simple and to the
         | point. Recommende.
        
       | codyogden wrote:
       | I've been using Umami for Killed by Google for the last eight
       | months. I'm very happy with it. Provides me with just enough data
       | for insightful decisions.
       | 
       | Here's the public analytics page (all time ~675k page views,
       | ~575k visitors).
       | 
       | https://analytics.bale.media/share/s1Q7twme
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-17 23:00 UTC)