[HN Gopher] Some Night-Shift Workers May Have a 300% Higher Risk...
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Some Night-Shift Workers May Have a 300% Higher Risk of Car Crashes
Author : IMAYousaf
Score : 86 points
Date : 2021-05-17 18:51 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (showme.missouri.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (showme.missouri.edu)
| tohnjitor wrote:
| Sleep deprivation got so bad for me that I would nap in my car at
| a gas station halfway home. Park at the far end of the lot and
| set a timer for 20 minutes.
|
| I no longer work nights.
| weird-eye-issue wrote:
| That is bad. I'm glad you don't do that anymore
| clairity wrote:
| that's actually the more responsible thing to do vs. trying to
| power through (something i've been guilty of doing in my
| younger days). it goes without saying that the ideal is not
| being sleep deprived at all, but our lives are rarely ideal.
| offtop5 wrote:
| How many of these people are working three or four jobs ?
| petee wrote:
| Likely a decent number. Sometimes it's just the hours at one. A
| job I worked once had us doing 14 hour minimums with a rolling
| start (Monday start at 7am, by Friday start at 3pm), until two
| of the guys fell asleep on the ride home within one week, one
| barely surviving hitting a parked garbage truck, and the other
| ran a red light and flipped some guys minivan.
|
| After that we were working 12 hour days instead, in part due to
| workers saying enoughs enough
|
| Sleep in the film industry is a big issue; years ago Heskel
| Wexler made a great documentary about it after his camera
| assistant died driving home, it's called "Who Needs Sleep"
| sethammons wrote:
| the film industry, sleep, and driving one sparked a memory. i
| took a film production elective while completing my
| undergrad. The class left and I stayed behind to finish up. A
| while later, they walked back in. Confused, I wondered if
| they all forgot something. Nope. Turned out it was the next
| class session! I hadn't moved in nearly 24 hours, and was
| awake at this point for at least 40 hours. I then had over an
| hour drive home up a curvy mountain road (at night) with
| thousand foot cliffs.
|
| I actually full on hallucinated.
|
| 1/3: A giant SUV (20' tall) was reversing onto the highway. I
| slammed on the breaks only to realize it wasn't there.
|
| 2/3: A bit later, a hundred foot tall heavy woman in a moo
| moo standing akimbo over the road. I recall telling myself to
| not look up as I passed underneath.
|
| 3/3: someone reversing their boat and trailer onto the road,
| but the boat was 20' tall (my mind had _something_ going on
| with giants I guess). By that point, I just drove through the
| illusion, and, after, realized just how scary that was.
|
| Finally got home, and I recall aiming for my pillow and being
| asleep before hitting the mattress.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| You were lucky. You could easily have killed somebody on
| the way and ended up in prison.
| johncessna wrote:
| We should really start using hours per week instead of number
| of jobs. It's too easy to push an agenda with the latter. 'I
| work 3 jobs' reads differently than 'I work 45 hours a week'
| kevinh wrote:
| Number of hours can also be misleading. I work 40 hours a
| week at one job. Someone who worked 40 hours a week at three
| jobs would certainly have more difficulties at work, like
| more commutes, more context switching, not having the
| benefits that arise from a full time job, etc.
| limeblack wrote:
| An increased risk of cancer[1] makes this even worse.
|
| [1]: https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/948449
| tpmx wrote:
| Sleep apnea - it's weird how you often don't notice/understand it
| until an external observer who has seen it before tells you
| what's going on. You just feel very slightly more tired each day.
| You randomly microsleep without realizing. It's quite insidious.
| It's obviously very dangerous if you drive a car.
|
| This area needs much more awareness (and tech-based "disruption"
| - especially in detection, but also in making CPAP treatment more
| affordable and accessible).
| gknoy wrote:
| Since blood oxygen can be measured with an external sensor, I'd
| be very surprised if fitbit or Apple watches weren't able to
| monitor oxygen levels combined with sleep movement to detect
| this. (They probably already do this.)
|
| Edit: Of course, that only works for people who would own one.
| People working third shifts might not be common in that set.
| moneywoes wrote:
| How accurate are those devices without a blood sample?
| Baeocystin wrote:
| The full set of arterial blood gasses requires a blood
| draw, but just oxygen saturation is easily and accurately
| done via a simple light sensor. The FDA requirement is that
| the finger/light sensors be within 2-3% of the measured
| blood gas value.
| hausen wrote:
| FDA-cleared pulse oximeters must be accurate to +-4% SpO2.
|
| https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-
| communications/pu...
| wlesieutre wrote:
| Notably, the Apple Watch S6 sensor does not have FDA
| approval. It's for "wellness."
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/7/21504023/apple-watch-
| ekg-...
|
| _> Blood oxygen monitors, or pulse oximeters, are
| considered Class II medical devices by the FDA.
| Generally, any company that wants to sell one in the
| United States has to submit documentation to the agency
| confirming that its product works just as well as other
| versions of the same product already on the market.
| There's a workaround, though: if the company says that
| the product is just for fun, or for general "wellness,"
| they don't have to go through that process. They can't
| claim that it can diagnose or treat any medical
| conditions, but they can put it up for sale._
|
| You might still use that as a cue that you _should_ get
| tested for sleep apnea, but the watch itself isn 't
| considered a medical device for measuring blood oxygen.
| tpmx wrote:
| When I was diagnosed the kit I borrowed from the clinic for
| at home sleep analysis contained sensors that recorded:
|
| - Nasal breathing via a light-weight mask thing around your
| nostrils
|
| - Heart rate and blood oxygenation via a pulse oximeter on a
| finger
|
| - Physical orientation of the body (an acceleration sensor)
|
| - Something around the chest that probably recorded
| contractions/expansions
| rossdavidh wrote:
| Anecdatum: I have worked for 30 years at various jobs. Only two
| of those years was I working a night shift. I have been involved
| in one car crash that resulted in vehicle damage; it was when I
| was working night shift.
|
| Interesting point: it was on my way _in_ to work at the beginning
| of the shift, so I didn't attribute it to being on night shift.
| Now, looking back, I wonder if the wonky sleep schedule was
| nonetheless a contributing factor.
|
| Also: the Fates have now decreed that I'm going to get in a wreck
| next week.
| Daishiman wrote:
| For those of us who are naturally nocturnal but work day shifts
| I'm wondering if we're in the same risk profile by simply not
| respecting our weird but established circadian rhythms.
|
| I naturally wake up at 11AM - 12 PM and have difficulty going to
| sleep before 3 AM. Having to wake up at 6:30 daily would be a
| comparable torture.
| stephen_cagle wrote:
| Once I had an early morning flight to the airport and called an
| Uber. Sitting shotgun, I got to chatting with the driver. Asking
| about her day, she told me that she had just come off an 8 hour
| shift at the airport doing Fedex unloading. She was visibly
| tired. It was a stressful ride. :/
| mlacks wrote:
| at a submarine watchfloor (the 'shore side' of submarine
| communications) we had a wild schedule: 5am to 5pm for two days,
| then 5pm to 5am for the next two days. Four days off after that,
| but then the cycle continues. I can't count the number of times I
| woke up several hundred yards from where I last was conscious -
| freeways, intersections, etc. Most of my coworkers had this issue
| as well. we finally convinced the command to go to a more normal
| policy, but this took decades.
| jessriedel wrote:
| Even judged purely based on getting the best work-results out
| of your subordinates during their working hours, this sounds
| crazy. What was the stated justification?
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| Sounds a little like the "tough it out" attitude doctors have
| with their 24 hour shifts during training . I don't think
| this can be justified rationally.
| grayfaced wrote:
| Most military watchfloors end up on stupid schedules like
| this. They aren't looking for work-results, they're looking
| to maximize accountability and minimize drama. The teams are
| fixed so they can align to command structure, so it will
| basically always be 4 shifts evenly divided. Because there is
| no night or weekend incentives, they want to rotate the
| night/weekends across all 4 teams.
|
| I used to do panama shifts, swapping between days/nights
| every 2 weeks.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_plan#Panama_Schedule
| ggm wrote:
| Never liked headlines use of x00% to denote x times. They have a
| threefold higher risk. That's shocking enough, without the extra
| zeroes
| antibuddy wrote:
| > Study: Drivers who experience shift work sleep disorder are 3x
| more likely to be involved in a vehicle crash
|
| This would mean (potentially) 200% higher risk, not 300%.
|
| PS.: Further down a 300% additional risk is stated, but it's
| confusing at best.
| ghaff wrote:
| Using terms like 200% more should probably be avoided given
| that some percentage of people will equate that with 2x and
| others will equate it with 3x.
| wavesounds wrote:
| What a terrible headline "Some" Night-Shift workers probably have
| a 10,000% higher risk (example maybe some of them drink on the
| job)
| TTPrograms wrote:
| It seems like analyzing fault here is important. Maybe driving
| late at night makes it more likely you will be hit by another
| driver (e.g. a drunk driver)?
| nickthemagicman wrote:
| It bothers me when they give percentages without accompanying
| context.
|
| 300% of 1 = 3
|
| How many night workers and how many car crashes?
| hervature wrote:
| Yes, 300% of 1 is 3. Thus, 300% more is 1+3=4 which is a 4x
| increase. Other commenters have already commented that the
| article uses both 3x and 300% interchangeably which is wrong.
| jeena wrote:
| I was working night shift at a factory and preparing a rave
| during the day when I fell asleep on my way home from work and
| crashed into a house. It cost my my drivers license for 10 months
| in Germany.
| sokoloff wrote:
| > [encourage night-shift workers to] take other modes of
| transportation, including public transit or ride-share services
|
| It's not obvious to me that ride-share services would be
| materially safer here. It seems like many of the same concerns
| for night-shift workers in other jobs would also apply to ride-
| share drivers, added to the propensity for the flexibility of
| those jobs to increase the number of people driving ride-shares
| in addition to other full-time employment.
| watwut wrote:
| Chances are, your ride share is in the middle of shift. Not in
| the end of shift when driver is most tired.
|
| Assuming ride share means Uber and such. AFAIK, drivers treat
| it as job.
| bootlooped wrote:
| When I was working a third shift factory job, there was no
| public transportation that was remotely close to covering my
| commute, and taking Uber to and from work would have taken a
| huge bite out of my paycheck. These remedies just aren't
| realistic for a large number of third shift workers.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| Public transit is the only option.
|
| I would love to see a general audit of night shift work and
| ongoing plans to keep it at an absolute minimum, but that's
| probably too utopian a project to see in this country any time
| soon :/.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Many night shift jobs already pay a shift differential. Many
| employees seek out those shifts. Why would we, as a society,
| want to prevent these seemingly mutually beneficial
| arrangements? Don't like shift work? Don't take a job that
| requires it, but don't ban others who do prefer it from
| taking it because you don't like it.
| renewiltord wrote:
| For the same reason we, as a society, place wage floors,
| etc.
|
| The crime committed when two people form a lopsided
| employment relationship isn't really against either of them
| (because clearly each is deriving sufficient utility); it's
| against us.
|
| We don't want to be employed in this manner so we prevent
| the existence of these things.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Who is we? Some people _prefer_ to work at different
| times. Maybe they like having sunlight in their free time
| instead of their work time.
| renewiltord wrote:
| "We" is a generalized aggregate of society weighted by
| political power.
|
| Some people also _prefer_ to work for less than minimum
| wage because they are on the wrong side of an information
| asymmetry. And yet they cannot. Because they have not
| sinned against themselves or their employer but against
| us.
| treeman79 wrote:
| My area only just restored bus service a week ago.
|
| Many nearby places closed in part because workers had no way
| to arrive without a bus.
| cl0ckt0wer wrote:
| I'd think if they want to fix it they should make the employer
| responsible for it.
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(page generated 2021-05-17 23:00 UTC)