[HN Gopher] A teenager's guide to avoiding actual work ___________________________________________________________________ A teenager's guide to avoiding actual work Author : mad_ned Score : 925 points Date : 2021-05-19 10:07 UTC (12 hours ago) (HTM) web link (madned.substack.com) (TXT) w3m dump (madned.substack.com) | _joel wrote: | Here's mine. I'd just coming to take my GCSE's and decided to | audit the school's website which was a Frontpage '97 powered | site. I found the passwd file in the _vti_cnf dir (iirc) and ran | it through a brute forcer. Found the password quite easily but | instead of defacing decided to inform the webmaster. They were | impressed and ended up getting me some paid work experience at | ICL for the summer, working on an NT4 rollout (those were the | days). If I'd defaced the site or done something a teenager would | have perhaps done to impress his peers then I wouldn't have had | that experience which definitely helped to get another job. It's | funny how so much of life can pivot on quick, seemingly | insignificant choices. | Wowfunhappy wrote: | I'd be curious to hear opinions on how much he should have asked | for--what could he have gotten away with and still landed the | job? Would $1,000 (in 1982 money) have been too much? | bluedino wrote: | The computer itself probably cost $60,000 new, so $1,000 for a | software fix wouldn't have been outrageous. | flaubere wrote: | I think he picked a good number. It clearly wasn't $1000 of | effort. Jim may not have been interested in hiring someone who, | like his previous software guy, was looking to shake him down | for as much as possible. | movedx wrote: | I agree. Anything higher and he might have got paid, but not | got offered the job. | | The fact he DID get the job means he got the better deal in | the long run. | philjohn wrote: | And that job was worth, in today's money, roughly $1100 a | week, which for a summer job before college is pretty damn | good. | dan-robertson wrote: | $100 in 1982 is about $275 today. $1k ($2.75k today) feels high | to me because of the combination of unknown teenager and the | fact that programmer pay was relatively lower in 1982. And if | you scale that up to $4k per week that's $11k per week in | today's money which feels pretty crazy for a teenager. $400 per | week in 1982 is a salary of like $60k in today's money. At 20 | hours per week that sounds like a good deal. | throwawayboise wrote: | In the late 1980s I did computer work for a small business | and was paid about $9/hr. It wasn't really programming | though, more of an operator job with some hardware | maintenance/troubleshooting mixed in as needed. My first job | as a programmer, in the early 1990s, paid $32k base plus | overtime and a yearly bonus. | sangnoir wrote: | > And if you scale that up to $4k per week that's $11k per | week in today's money which feels pretty crazy for a | teenager. | | Maybe that's because minimum wage did not scale to match | inflation since 1982. If it had, I don't think $11k would | sound as crazy. | DanBC wrote: | > Would $1,000 (in 1982 money) have been too much? | | To compare some prices: | | In 1983 Lotus 1-2-3 was selling for $495, which is about $1320 | today. | | In 1988 CompuServe was charge $11 (so, over $20 today) an hour. | | In 1983 an IBM 5150 was between $1565 and $3000 ($4200 and | $8000). http://www.oldcomputers.net/ibm5150.html | remoquete wrote: | What I love about this story is that feeling of tinkering with a | logical system and solving problems with clever hacks. For many, | it's the reason why they ended up working in tech, I guess. | michaelgrafl wrote: | That story lifted my mood. | dope wrote: | I didn't realise it lifted mine until I read this comment. Have | a great day! | LordGrey wrote: | I really liked this story, and it resonated with me. My | programming career began in much the same way, at about the same | time. | | The only non-computer job I've ever had was my first, a six-week | stint at a Burger King, and I was desperate to never do that | again. I undersold my skills often, and got in over my head just | as often. | | It was a great, if sometimes painful, learning experience. | anoncow wrote: | When and how did things change, if I may ask? | LordGrey wrote: | If by "change" you're asking, "when did I stop underselling | myself and getting in over my head" then I am not sure I | could identify a single point in time where that happened. | It's been an improvement on a continuum. | | Those early years certainly felt painful but in retrospect | provided valuable concrete experience in negotiating, | marketing, and self-assessment. I learned how to figure out | what others _really_ wanted, how much they should be willing | to pay to achieve their goals, and (probably most | importantly) whether or not I could deliver. That period of | time, when computers were exploding into small businesses, | was a little magical when it came to freelance programming. | | Now, ~40 years later, I find myself applying those learned | skills at my current job every day. I got lucky. | | My apologies if I misunderstood your question and blathered | on about something else. | ljm wrote: | One day, when I was 18 or 19, I was invited to a Mercedes | dealership to try and fix a problem they were having with their | site. I went there with the same mindset as the OP: I'll | investigate for free, but a solution would cost money. | | Unfortunately I didn't have the experience or perseverance to | actually work my way through a highly custom CMS, one that seemed | to be forced on most dealerships. I went in thinking there'd be a | blob of PHP somewhere, or some code to look into. There was none, | only an endless series of silver-tinted forms. | | I gave up, said this was way out of my depth, and despite their | insistence refused to bill them for the time. It was enough for | me, as a young whippersnapper, to say that I worked for Mercedes | (for a day). | | Good to see OP had a similar-ish run-in but managed to see it | through. | tristor wrote: | When I was very young my parents got a computer to help my mom | finish writing her Master's thesis and for my dad to use for work | and to use for home accounting. I learned to program and to | modify games, got into MUDs, IRC, Usenet, and all sorts of things | similar to that. My parents allowed me to go to an A+ | certification course when I was 11 over the summer instead of | going to Bible camp, which was motivated by having the middle | school IT guy as sort of a mentor. Thanks to that I got into | building computers and really focused on desktop hardware, | troubleshooting, and the types of things you'd now consider | "helpdesk" work. I, of course, helped take care of the family | computer as well. | | Along the way, I had gotten into the habit of visiting the homes | of people in the neighborhood and just sitting and talking with | the people that lived there, almost all of whom were older | retired couples or widows, and often made food at home with my | mom and brought it over for lunch. I noticed that nearly all of | these people had a home computer that they used for emailing | their grand kids but didn't really have a lot of knowledge about, | and many were in horrible disrepair (infected with malware | mostly). When my parents told me I needed to get a job at 14, | they figured I'd do what everyone else did and mow lawns over the | summer, but instead I printed out flyers with strips to tear off | and my phone number and posted them around the neighborhood | advertising computer help at significantly cheaper rates than | usual (I think the going rate was $100 for diagnosis and I | charged $20). | | The most important tool I made for myself was burning a CD that | just had a bunch of free tools on it and a handful of batch | scripts I wrote to help me find and remove malware. I'm eternally | thankful to all the much more capable people who were kind enough | to put the tools they'd made online for free, folks like Steve | Gibson (GRC) and Mark Russinovich (SysInternals) made it possible | for a lot of small town techs to help real people get actual | value from computers in the early days. | | By the end of that first summer I was on a first name basis with | several small business owners in town and made four times what my | school friends made mowing lawns. By the time I was in college, I | had retainers for doing IT with several companies in town and | leveraged it into a short-term contract through a larger | contracting firm in the closest proper city, dropped out of | college to do IT contracting full time, and converted that into a | full-time role as a sysadmin and from that went into DevOps, and | the rest is history. | | I credit most of my success to having a handful of mentors and | having parents who were willing to let me guide my own education, | as well as the wonderful free resources that were all over on the | Internet in the early days to learn anything you wanted to know | about computers. I'm also incredibly lucky that something I just | thought was cool as a kid turned out to create a set of skills | that I could build a career on. | intrasight wrote: | I'll add my own related story. | | When I was a sophomore, I applied for and got a summer job at | Kodak. My father said to not be disappointed if it was driving a | fork lift because that's usually what they are. But I showed up | and was directed into an accounting office where on desks, next | to stacks of IBM punch cards, were some brand new IBM PCs. I | spent the summer hacking Lotus 1-2-3. They had seen on my | application that I was familiar with computers. | YeGoblynQueenne wrote: | >> And in reviewing this one, it comes off to me as a little | elitist. Like it is about how this guy, using his great hacker | skills, avoided the 'menial labor of the commoners' or something. | I hope that is not the impression it gives - it is not my | intention, anyway. | | No, it's fine. It doesn't come across as bragging about your | awesome hax0034 skilz0 and I was even kind of surprised about how | little it brags at all. I would have bragged more. | timonoko wrote: | Dammit. I was just browsing commercial database protected by one | inverted bit. Map tile coordinates are integers, but XORed by | 010000 producing weird and mysterious errors. | dr_dshiv wrote: | Literally brought tears to my eyes, like a cheesey Disney movie. | Enormous satisfaction, I loved this story! | samuelbalogh wrote: | Such a great story, well written too. | rozularen wrote: | Thanks for this post, as others commenters said, it really | resonated with me. | movedx wrote: | I love stories like this. I have one of my own, actually. | | When I was first getting into IT I started sending out CVs. Mine | was terrible. I had been working in call centres for years at | this point and all my "experience" was basically self-taught, so | not really experience at all. As a result my CV was void of any | actual content a hiring manager in IT would want to read, thus it | was binned a lot. | | I applied for a job at a nearby network hardware repair place. | They needed someone to look after their Cisco kit and about 30 | Debian Linux systems. I was attracted to the mix of | responsibilities so I applied, sending in me not-so-good CV. I | was eventually asked to come in to have a chat after waiting | about a week to hear back from the place. | | At the end of the interview, Bob (let's call him), said I was | more knowledgeable than the RHCEs that were coming through his | door. This was nice to hear, but then he said something that | really made me smile... | | Apparently my CV was worse than I thought. It was so bad, that | Bob literally put it in the bin under his desk. About four days | later, Bob was reading through a local Linux User Group (LUG) | mailing list and he saw a name he recognised: mine. So he opens | the email and reads the thread in which I helped another LUG | member compile a sound driver for their kernel. The instructions | I gave worked. | | Bob was impressed but he couldn't quite remember where he had | seen the name. At this point the business owner, John (heh...), | was standing besides Bob's desk and noticed my CV in the bin. He | pulls it out and reads my name across the top. The penny drops | for Bob and I get the call to come in and have a chat. | | I got the job. | JJMcJ wrote: | > Apparently my CV was worse than I thought. | | I have seen some awful resumes, including for people with PhDs | and long records of accomplishments. Even people who have been | through resume writing seminars at job search organizations. | bityard wrote: | Ha! My first job was effectively through a LUG as well. In the | early 2000's, I moved to a new city and joined the LUG there. A | few months go by and I'm chatting with someone in the room and | they ask what I do. I replied that I was going to college but | also looking for part-time work. The next day, another LUG | member who owned a small consulting company called me up and | said he overheard what I said and pretty much just offered me | the job right over the phone. | | In fact, looking back at my employment history, only one of my | jobs was a direct result of someone seeing my resume before | they even met me. | bluedino wrote: | >> Bob was reading through a local Linux User Group (LUG) | mailing list and he saw a name he recognised: mine. | | I had the opposite happen. | | I took a job doing some programming, some Linux administration, | some helpdesk. I came across a convoluted database setup, | nobody in their right mind would run multiple servers on the | same machine this way... After researching the issue, I found | that it was totally unnecessary, and likely a holdover from an | earlier (like 15 years earlier) version of the software, | because now it was natively support. | | During my searching, on a mailing list I found a message from | my now-boss. Asking how to do the exact thing they were still | doing. And a couple messages from developers of the software | basically saying, "If you did it this way, it would in theory | work, but it won't ever be supported" | yabones wrote: | When I was younger, I inherited a lot of old PC hardware from | my father. One particular motherboard had a massive gouge | through the heatsink for the southbridge, and I could never | figure out why. | | One day, I was trying to get Mac OSX to run on this | particular system, and on page six of google search I finally | found a guide to configuring the BIOS for this board that | actually worked! It was one of the very first boards that | supported UEFI (iirc, before the spec was fully ratified), | and the documentation was very incomplete. | | I dug a few pages deeper in the thread, and the same poster | was describing the poor design of the heatsinks and how they | interfered with the full length PCI cards that were used in | pro audio at the time. The same poster described how they | carefully prized the aluminum heatsink off, screwed it to a | board and used a dremel tool to make a slot just wide enough | for the card to safely fit. | | That was strange... I had exactly the same groove cut in my | heatsink... | therein wrote: | And the OP was your father? That would have been a nice | coincidence. | bluedino wrote: | Sounds right up there with filed-down cards or connectors | that had longer grooves cut in them! | WalterBright wrote: | I had a parking light burn out on my car. Went to the car | store, and a replacement bulb was $$. Perused the lamps | on tags in the aisles, and found one that looked the same | but had different "ears" on the side. | | Bought it, and filed off the ears so it would fit in my | car's socket. Worked perfectly, for a small fraction of | the price. | | Of course, my car is full of aftermarket parts, so I am | used to making "adjustments" to get them to fit. | Symbiote wrote: | About every 6-9 months, I'm searching through error logs | looking at odd messages, or trying to see why we have some | obscure configuration parameters set, when I start reading | something relevant-looking on a Blogspot blog. | | It becomes uncannily relevant, even to the point of familiar | IP addresses or pathnames in the blog, at which point I | realize it was written by my predecessor. | | The obscure parameters are usually obsolete, and were | required because they were running the very latest versions | of the software before the defaults matured. The blog was | something like documentation at the time. | jerf wrote: | As someone currently wading through resumes and kinda worried | about missing some one like this, here's a tip to anyone else | like you: The purpose of a resume is to get you hired. If you | have something like an incredible technical sound driver | support email chain like that... _put a link to it in your | resume_. Yeah, your resume has standard fields, and those are | indeed sorted on by HR, so don 't leave out the skills & | experience... but otherwise, the resume is _free form_. | Generally not _prose_ exactly, but free form. Link to | _ANYTHING_ you think will help you get the job. | | And don't just say "I participate in some LUG"... that can mean | you show up to the meetings once every couple of months to eat | the free food. Show your helpfulness in an email chain. Show a | project that you did with them with a link that explicitly says | you did a big portion of it. If no such link exists, get one | created! | | By no means do I promise wonders if you do this. HR filters may | still eat your resume. But if you do get through to a real | human, they may look at those things, and the ones who will | understand what this means are the ones you want to work for | anyhow. | | If you've got the skills to pay the bills but your resume looks | like any other high school dropout's, I can tell you, from the | other side of the desk, you've given me no way to tell any | different. It may stink that all we have are resumes in the | initial process... but at least that resume is _under your | control_. (Mostly. Sometimes it gets chewed on. But speaking | for myself, I 'm looking at raw resumes straight from the | candidate and that's not uncommon.) Don't be afraid to use it, | and don't be afraid to toot your own horn, that's the whole | point of this particular document. | | (Similarly, to the extent possible without lying, don't say "I | participated in some project" as your work experience. Write | something _you did_ in the project. Don 't say "I participated | in a billing system upgrade", say how you rewrote the UI in | React to conform to accessibility standards and made it run 10 | times faster than before and customers uniformly loved it and | paid lots more money or whatever. "Participation" could be "I | had my hand held for every bug as I struggled to keep up" and | it could be "I stepped up and took more responsibility than | anyone expected and almost single-handedly completed the | project, freeing up the other developers" or anything in | between. Unfortunately, based on experience, I kinda have to | assume the worst because it's usually right. If "the worst" | interpretation of that phrase isn't right, don't leave it open | to me!) | | Believe me, if you're doing Linux support on a mailing list, or | anything even remotely like that, you stand out, at least to | the right people. Do whatever it takes to work that on to the | resume somehow. The "standard resume form" is a skeleton to be | fleshed out, not a straightjacket of form. | Pasorrijer wrote: | This. This is why I always encourage people who I mentor to | have a skills section. | | My first job I got the interview because at the time I was | attempting to turn a snowmobile into a hovercraft. I had | plans and everything. | | I put this on the resume. | | The first question in the interview? "Look, if nothing else | we had to bring you in to ask. How the hell are you planning | on turning a snowmobile into a hovercraft?!?" | | The project never went anywhere, but it got me the job. | criddell wrote: | When you are involved in hiring, it's surprising just how | bad most resumes are. Have a single page of highlights that | are going to make me want to talk to you. The interview is | the time to go deep on details, if that's how the | conversation goes. | jfengel wrote: | It's really hard for somebody to know what's going to | appeal. Maybe "planning on building a hovercraft" looks | great to you; maybe it looks like somebody padding their | resume. Maybe "had a really cool email thread" catches | your eye; maybe it looks like an irrelevant detail. | | A resume page isn't very long, especially presented as | bullet points as expected. And especially when you have | absolutely no idea who it is will be reading it. I can | tell you great stories about every project I've ever | done, but not in a bullet point. | | I have no doubt that most resumes are incredibly bad. But | I'd venture to say that a substantial fraction of the | resumes you think are very good will be considered very | bad by the next hiring manager over. | criddell wrote: | > I can tell you great stories about every project I've | ever done, but not in a bullet point. | | If you can figure out some way to distill an important | project down to a point or two, it's definitely going to | work in your favor. A resume is not the place for great | stories but it should make me want to ask. | | I agree with your last sentence, although I don't think | you will find anybody wanting a long resume from you. You | could always provide a link to your online CV that is | complete while the one you submit is an edited down | version tailored to the company and position you hope to | interview for. | tolbish wrote: | I'm guess your resume was still otherwise impressive | Pasorrijer wrote: | It wasn't awful. I was a new grad though, so I had a | grocery store job, some volunteer experience and then | fluffed up with whatever skills were on the job posting. | vidarh wrote: | Second this. And especially the "I participated in" bit - | that almost immediately makes me heavily discount the value | of that experience because it tells me nothing and it's | exactly what someone who has had only peripheral involvements | but wants to play up their importance would say. | | If they get through to an interview, fine, they'll get a | chance to be specific, but failing to be specific might well | get them filtered out before that. | devwastaken wrote: | Do you have a preferred template that gets past the filters? | I imagine much of bad resumes comes from people using | traditional ones. | pulse7 wrote: | There was a thread on HN a week ago [1] about "How to write a | resume that converts" and the most voted comment starts with a | sentence "The importance of resumes has been overstated for | many years now, and I look forward to the day they are phased | out entirely."... | | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27112542 | bluGill wrote: | It is, and always been: who you know more is more important | than what you know. | kevinpet wrote: | I've hired a handful of referrals, but when I get referrals | I immediately look to see if their resume has relevant | experience. | rsj_hn wrote: | This is really an unhealthy and flawed understanding of | what is a necessary part of life. The problem is how to | find good people, and the more society downgrades objective | measures of excellence, the more people need to rely on | personal recommendations. It's not that people wouldn't | take a stranger for a job, but when there is a lot of | uncertainty, they can't absorb the risk of the stranger not | being qualified. So they will always prefer someone they | _know_ is qualified over someone who they don 't know is | qualified but might be better. | | The above is as necessary and unsurprising as rain falling | to the ground. There is no other way that things can work. | Thus the practical advice you can give someone is not only | to learn something but to widen their professional network | so that there are many people who _know_ they 've learned | something. | | It is the exact same thing in a big bureaucracy. You have | to know how to sell yourself, which just means you need to | successfully communicate your accomplishments. Too many | people do great work, but they don't communicate their | accomplishments, and then they are surprised that less | qualified people are promoted over them, and they grow | cynical or resentful when it is really their failure at | communication that has caused the problem. Like many things | in life, it's better to be mediocre at two necessary things | rather than excellent at one and skipping the other. But no | amount of righteous anger about the unfairness of life is | going to change the fact that people are not omniscient and | that talent is hard for strangers to evaluate. | [deleted] | kindall wrote: | People always say that, but only one of the full-time jobs | I've had in my thirty-year career has come from networking. | In one other situation I was the guy who got several former | co-workers hired, all at once, a frankly freak occurrence I | still don't quite believe actually happened. My current | job, I was contacted out of the blue by the team's manager | on LinkedIn. Most of my jobs have come from being active on | the Internet, or else from applying cold. | bluGill wrote: | Many people do get hired cold, but it is the last choice | of anyone hiring. If you know the right person you skip | to the front of the line with no competition. | vitaflo wrote: | >People always say that, but only one of the full-time | jobs I've had in my thirty-year career has come from | networking. | | Funny, only one of the gigs I've gotten in my 30 year | career has come from _not_ networking...my first one. | Every job after that has come about because of people I | know recommending me for the job. | | This has been super helpful over the past 15 years as | I've been an independent consultant. In fact, I went | indie because I had a network. | | I don't need to look for gigs anymore, people come to me. | I turn down way more gigs than I can take. And I haven't | had to have an actual interview for a job in over 20 | years. | | I'm sure this isn't the norm, but it certainly makes work | life a lot easier. | Cerium wrote: | I have the opposite experience. I have never landed a job | that I didn't already have a good contact and | recommendation for, of course that is probably because I | have never tried. | cercatrova wrote: | > People always say that, but only one of the full-time | jobs I've had in my thirty-year career has come from | networking. | | Does that not just imply that your network wasn't that | good but not necessarily that the adage "who you know | more is more important than what you know" is actually | false? | taneq wrote: | Interesting... Only two of my jobs have _not_. | vidarh wrote: | It depends a lot on your network and pure luck. | | Here's an example of how much it can matter: | | * I co-founded my first company with people I met at | university. | | * We got our first investor thanks to a chance encounter | between said investor and one of my co-founders at a bar. | | * When we exited that company, our investors lawyer | arranged a meeting for us with another of his clients, | who hired us. | | * One of the execs at that company hired me for his next | startup, and introduced me to his brothers, so I could | work part-time for them until he got funding. | | * One of my co-workers at that company was one of my co- | founders at my next company, and our other co-founders | were friends of that person. One of them had worked for | the VCs who invested in our first round. | | * [I went to Yahoo for a couple of years -- no | connections there.] | | * The general counsel at my last pre-Yahoo startup pulled | me into my next startup. | | * [I then went to a web dev agency, no connections there] | | * The co-founder of the company I worked at before the | web-dev agency contacted me about some contracting, and I | ended up joining full time (my current job) | | So Yahoo and the web dev agency are the only places I've | worked over the last 26 years where my resume has | mattered. Even then, at the web-dev agency I name-dropped | one of people who'd hired me previously, and it impressed | them, so who knows how much my resume really mattered | there either. | taneq wrote: | That's how the saying goes but what really matters isn't | who you know, but _who knows you_ (and was impressed by | your work). | colechristensen wrote: | I have had mediocre experiences, at best, with people | bringing in people that they knew from outside the company. | There were positive exceptions but usually it ended up | being a kind of weird political move that increased | divisions in teams. Like there was the group that knew each | other from outside and everybody else. something to be wary | about | irrational wrote: | I think that is often true, but I work for a Fortune 500 | company and did not know anyone who worked there before | getting hired. In the 20 years I've worked there I've been | involved in tons of interviewing potential hires. Every | single one got their foot in based on their resume. I've | never seen anyone hired because they knew someone at the | company. I'm sure it happens, I've just never met anyone it | has happened to. | WalterBright wrote: | Successful people put themselves in situations where they | can get to know the people who are important. | | For example, attend the tech conferences in your field. | Contribute to open source projects they are involved with. | Hang out where they hang out. Etc. | | Make it easy for chance encounters to find you. | trm42 wrote: | Last time a headhunter managed snatch me was weird. I wasn't | really active before deadline because I was on a holiday trip | and the headhunter said "it's okay, let's call after your | holidays". I wasn't actually looking for a new job but couple | of the buzzwords sounded promising so I ended up having | calling one of those chitchat calls with the headhunter which | then led to a chitchat with the company guys. | | When I was meeting the company guys, I'd updated and printed | my puny resume in case they would've wanted it but realised | they had "my resume" already. Basically the headhunter had | copy pasted my puny LinkedIn profile data into their some | sort of resume template and the guys were thinking I was | actively looking for a new job. | | Weird coincidences but ended up taking the job and haven't | regretted after 2,5 years. | robocat wrote: | I wonder if the headhunter used a geek code[0] to resume | generator? | | Alternatively I wonder if a modern version of geekcode | could be created with a service that automatically | compresses a submitted resume into a comprehensible string | of Unicode characters? | | [0] https://www.geekcode.xyz/geek.html | eointierney wrote: | A geek code based on distributed peer review (no | blockchain) could be very elegant. A kind of shared CV | encompassing gitlogs, third party reviews, customer | satisfaction, and actual "thinking when it matters" | ability recognition. | | Where are the semioticians when we need them? Syntax, | grammar, pragmatics, all develop at a rate of knots, but | we still use a subset of ASCII for the vast majority of | our symbolic computation. Could we do better than a joke | from the nineties? | simion314 wrote: | Again we see similar issues that motivated RMS to create the free | software movement. The buy bought a program but did not had the | ability to read or edit it, today you will get a DRM on top of | the program and some TOS that would say it is illegal to even | attempt to get pass the DRM. Video game crackers show this DRMs | will eventually get broken so the industry switch to services | instead, now you are really screwed , you can't flip a bit to fix | an issue or you can wake up and the software is now updated with | nice new bugs or pointless UX changes. | mouldysammich wrote: | I really liked this story. Im much too young to have been around | for it, but I feel like this era of computing must have been kind | of magical where there was a lot of access and no walled garden | nearly to the scale of a google or apple where the obfuscation | just requires a flipped bit. | DonHopkins wrote: | I'm old enough that my heart fluttered when he mentioned the | "ELF II" development board! That's some serious old school | magical stuff. That used car salesman was incredibly lucky to | snag such a hacker, who had no fear of jumping into hex dumps | and flipping bits around, for solving problems. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELF_II | | The RCA 1802 processor even had "SEX" and "GET HIGH" | instructions! | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCA_1802 | | https://www.atarimagazines.com/computeii/issue3/page52.php | quickthrower2 wrote: | Also no scrum! | metanonsense wrote: | Some things were also pretty hard back then (a few years later | but still). When you were too young for university and your | environment was not academic, getting access to information was | so difficult. I remember when we made a school trip to London | and I spent all my savings for programming and computer graphic | books. There was no wikipedia, no scihub, no blogs, no Github. | New coding or hacking e-zines were treated like gold and | sometimes I spent multiple months of my savings to get 1 book! | mod wrote: | I think I had to wait about 6 months to rent an HTML4 book | from the library. | | It was massive. Maybe 6 inches thick. I devoured it, and | later bought my own copy. | kaybe wrote: | My computer spoke English. I didn't. I just had some | nonsensical (for me) commands memorized. Things were indeed | different back then. | mjparrott wrote: | I had two jobs in high school and learned a lot from them. | | In the first, I was a temp worker for a P&G re-packaging | facility. This means some temp agency was paid $12/hour and they | passed on $9/hour to me. The job was backbreaking, in intense | heat, and with very strict management rules (e.g. no lunch break, | sitting down for even a moment was grounds for being fired). | | In the second, I did lawn mowing for individual families for | $20/hour. I found them by referrals and networking, and could | control my schedule for when I went to do jobs. | | This taught me that being creative to find good jobs was super | important. | | In college, I found a series of high-pay, flexible or comfortable | jobs. A few examples: | | $1000 for one week's work to hand out 2 pallets worth of coke | zero to college students. I was allowed to keep the extras and | ended up with a 1 year supply of coke zero for myself and all my | friends. Oh, they also gave me coupon for 1,000 free burritos and | despite a very diligent effort to hand out as many as humanly | possible was left with ~300 burritos and told to just keep them. | Qdoba was my primary diet for quite some time. | | A job selling cameras on eBay for a camera shot that went out of | business. They paid me a 25% commission and had one of the | largest private collections of highly collectable cameras (I sold | one for $8,000). I only did it for a summer, and probably should | have taken a semester off college to just do this full time and | could have made enough money to significantly reduce my college | loans. | | A freelance role, for a German re-insurance company to write | white papers for $50/hour and could create my own agenda for what | I needed to write, and work whenever I wanted. | sircastor wrote: | >> should have taken a semester off college to just do this | full time | | This is very adjacent to what you're saying, but every time I | hear this idea, I can only think that it's really taking an | entire year off. Most of my courses were structured in a way | that if you took a term out of the normal hierarchy, you'd have | to wait until that course came around again at the same time | the next year. | tester756 wrote: | > was allowed to keep the extras and ended up with a 1 year | supply of coke zero for myself and all my friends. | | that's pros or con? :P | bregma wrote: | Brings back the days of my youth in about the same era. We had a | recession on in my country at the time that made student jobs in | the tech industry scarce and I ended up working in landscaping | during the summer to try to meet the tuition bills. One of our | jobs was at the site of a rapidly expanding local tech firm (the | telecom monopoly had just been forced to open the market to allow | competition and the industry was beginning to boom). I remember | digging holes for planting trees and looking through the tinted | glass windows at a couple of guys in their white shirts and ties | sitting at a terminal and thinking "some day I'll be on that side | of the glass". Sure enough, after 40 years, I work for a company | with offices that overlook that same building. The trees I | planted are large and mature, I managed to eventually pay for my | education, and I never forget my roots as I sit down at a | terminal window. | lostlogin wrote: | > I never forget my roots. | | I hope the pun was intentional. | 3pt14159 wrote: | The classy way of handling puns is to avoid them if they're | not intended and leave them unstated if they are. It's | funnier to everyone who notices that way, and less | distracting to people that are just there for the content. | WhompingWindows wrote: | Instead of puns, you can substitute the synonym for the | word you're punning. So instead of "I never forgot my | roots" you can say, "I never forgot my tree butts" or | whatever word silly rephrasing you can imagine. | brazzy wrote: | Apparently this is the "story time" thread, so here's mine, of | how I hacked the Linux kernel without ever having written more | than maybe 50 lines of C code. | | This was in early 2001, I was an exchange student in Japan, and | I'd bought a really cool gadget in Akihabara that almost nobody | had heard about: a hardware MP3 player. For storage, it used MMCs | (precursor of SD cards), affordable ones held 32MB. To get music | onto those cards, I also bought a USB card reader. | | And there I ran into problems: the PC in my dormitory room was a | used Pentium Pro desktop I'd gotten very cheaply without an OS, | and I'd installed Linux on it. But at that time, USB support on | Linux was still rather spotty, and while the card reader was in | principle supported as a mass storage device, the USB driver | would reproducibly freeze up after a short time accessing it. | | As mentioned above, my C skills were basically non-existing, but | compiling your own kernel was at that time still a pretty common | thing for Linux users to do, so I had some experience with that. | And I was motivated. I enabled kernel debug output, and | discovered that just before freezing up, the driver would report | that it had received an event with a certain ID. I found the code | that handled events, and I found the code that handled the | problematic event. I looked at it and realized that I was many | months of learning away from being able to fix it. | | So instead, I deleted it. I simply made the driver ignore that | type of event. | | It worked. I could use the card reader to put MP3 files on the | MMCs and listen to them on the player. | | I felt a strange mixture of achievement and embarassment. | rags2riches wrote: | That's like a scene in some old TV series about a startup I | only vaguely remember. It's important demo day, but a bug is | threatening to ruin everything. Everybody is trying to find the | bug. Somebody yells out "I found it!" and everybody rushes | over. For a long moment, they all stare quietly at a big red | flashing line of code on the screen. Then somebody blurts out | "delete it!" and the person at the keyboard deletes the bug | with a single keystroke. Everybody cheers. The startup is | saved! | ergot_vacation wrote: | This story I believe, largely because there's no money or fame | involved, and because it's the software equivalent of "hit it | with a hammer until it works again." | FredPret wrote: | Ahhh, the rm -rf approach to problem solving. My favourite! | Ensorceled wrote: | The luck and the postscript really resonated with me. For more | than 30 years now, I've been telling people I hit the jackpot: | Computer programming is something I'm really good at, that I | enjoy doing and that pays really well. Very few people get all | three. | | I had to work summer jobs though, starting at 15: road crew, | pounding spikes on the railway, lumberjack. I'm not sure I would | have been better off for not having those jobs though. I learned | a lot about what the average person does to get by and about how | much alcohol gives me minor alcohol poisoning. | flaubere wrote: | The author said in a postscript that he was worried about | seeming elitist. I didn't think it was elitist at all, and I | completely understand why it was a good choice for him to write | BASIC code. | | However, I also did manual labour in the summer when I was ~20. | There was nothing wrong with it. I would certainly recommend a | brief stint of it to a young person, especially if you are | training towards a sitting down/talking type job. | | You are outdoors, you end the day physically tired but with | mental and emotional energy for other things. You gain skills | and improve your health and fitness. There's usually a good | atmosphere among the workers. And you get to point at something | concrete and say 'I helped put that up/knock that down/repair | that'. | Symbiote wrote: | My parents made a similar deal with me, when I was 18. | | "Manual work" for all but 3 weeks of the summer was indoors | for me, in factories -- mostly cleaning and assembling. There | was a good range of jobs, from boring, tough work more-or- | less alone, to a place where everyone seemed to chat while | they worked slowly as the summer was usually a quiet period. | | In the final job, I took a half-day off to collect my exam | results. Going into work afterwards, people naturally asked | what they were -- all A grades. It was difficult not to feel | apart from many of the staff from that point. The owner's | daughter was the same age and also working the summer at the | factory, and her results weren't good enough to go to | university. | Ensorceled wrote: | Did you ever get a "Hey, don't be using twenty dollar words | in a twenty-five cent conversation." That was a wake up | call. | Ensorceled wrote: | Part of why it didn't come off as elitist for me is that | everyone had their own story; his dad was relatable, his | mother supportive and he wanted to not disappoint them. The | car dealer guy sounded awesome and not at all like someone he | looked down on. | wjnc wrote: | Great story. Two things: | | 1. Would this still be possible today? It's a certain timeframe | (for software) where this was possible. Today it's things like | SAP, integrated systems and DMCA on top of it (or Excel). | | 2. I did the menial route and am still happy for it. Flipping | burgers, cleaning dishes, repairing truck tires and cleaning | office buildings. It's a different sort of grit and stamina than | the one that gets you far in your office career, but I still look | back fondly on the lessons about hard work. It was also an | introduction into diversity. I've met people on those jobs the | 16-year old me never met before, and since. For me the lesson is: | whatever my kids will do in jobs on the side, it pleases somebody | enough to give them money and them enough to do the job it's a | worthwhile lesson. | creshal wrote: | > Would this still be possible today? It's a certain timeframe | (for software) where this was possible. Today it's things like | SAP, integrated systems and DMCA on top of it (or Excel). | | There's still a lot of utterly awful, sloppy business software | around, especially for SMBs. | ericskiff wrote: | 1. <Professor Farnsworth voice>Oh my, yes!</Professor | Farnsworth voice> | | I run a "CTO-for-hire" service with about 25 devs, product | managers, and designers. I'd say at least a quarter of what we | do is dropping in to rescue projects that have gone bad. | | We're often treated like gold just for showing up, doing decent | work, and bailing them out of a problem. | | There's tons of work out there like this if you grow a | reputation for being good and trustworthy, and you're willing | to work through those really hard moments of everything being | broken with no reason why yet. I'm 40 years old, and still just | got the rush of excitement last week as I solved a major | production problem for a company after a string of late nights. | It's just fun. | | 2. Totally agreed about the value of other types of jobs as | well. I will treasure my teenage and early 20s experiences as a | Pizza Hut cook, Grocery cashier, and bet-taker at a race track | for what I learned about those industries, how people work | together, and the differences between intellectual and manual | labor. As a salesperson, I also STILL reference knowledge from | my experience in those industries when talking about new | projects. | JackFr wrote: | Under questions you're unprepared for, years ago at a Wall Street | job a couple of weeks after a re-org my new boss calls me into | his office and asks me what sort of bonus I was expecting. Caught | completely off guard I quoted him the real number I had been | expecting. | | He smiled and said great, which let me know I had absolutely left | money in the table. A trusted colleague then told me if that | situation ever came up again, take your real, reasonable | expectation, double it and add 20. The situation has never come | up again. | Asymmetryk wrote: | I'm going to use this story in the future for describing what | Computer Associates (CA) business strategy for rolling up custom | line of business applications contracts effectively amounts to, | or did. | | I was seventeen in 1990 and my girlfriend was throwing me out | unless I got a job that week and I decided to cover myself and | apply for a bunch of commission only telephone sales jobs that I | felt that I could rely on one offer from the booby prize if I | couldn't find better or a possibility that would buy me time. The | first Monday afternoon interview I found myself talking to the | manager of a magazine in the fastest growing quoted B2B publisher | and I am thinking that I have blown it the conversation is | faltering so I ask what format are media packs sent in and | receive the most strained look so much to tell me I'm really done | here and should make my excuses. Then I spot the pile of faxes | overflowing the adjacent desk and work up the courage to inquire | if the hard copies are needed for legal reasons and am I looking | at a representative period of sales, spying the dollar invoices. | This isn't helping me. The manager lifts up a nearby pile to | reveal the first of many fax machines I am suddenly realising | festoon every desk about 2 per 5 people. The room spins as I have | flashbacks to my last summer job eternally loading and desnagging | thermal fax rolls for my local pharmacy. Realising that I was | done without a gambit I've still no idea what impetus was the | cause but I blurted out "email doesn't have gophers in between | you and your customers they'll answer your offers directly!" the | cover sheets for every single fax had fluttered when the manager | lifted them..Group Company... Operating Company... Country | Region... Division... Department... Title...Recipient.... "URGENT | ACTION REQUIRED TIME LIMITED QUOTATION ENCLOSED ACCORDING TO | REQUEST "... and the longest paragraph of legal disclaimer | insisting the recipient imdemnifies the sender for all sins | expressly and especially in relation to the offered business | contained within. "YOU mean I can sell through these things | here!?!?!" the manager agitatedly pointing to the email address | attached to the corporate address given by a display advertising | page in his magazine. "Individually not only to some waste bin | mailbox drop nobody cares about?". The total experience I held in | any way whatsoever related to this was a blissful month using the | Byte magazine exchange until C&D'd by my father on principle that | I never told him about ancillary and necessary costs for a | effectively essential second phone line he was certainly not | putting in. I wasn't sure if I was right when I pointed to the | ampersand @ sign and totally winged the dots were machine | designation separators (thinking about bang paths) but in that | very second my out reached and gambling hand found itself being | shaken heartily and the smiling owner of this animated appendage | was confirming "if I hire you you can't tell anyone else what you | just told me - I hired you because I wanted someone who | understands this not because you explained anything to me OK?". I | was very OK indeed. I held my 18th birthday party in this office | a few weeks later and I have just entered my 4th decade of | finding computing knowledge goes very far indeed in the media | industry. | citizenpaul wrote: | Stories like this make me sad and depressed. | | Basically some greedy jerk didn't want to pay living wages to | some programmers. Due to his position of already being rather | well off he was able to put off (through even more cheap labor) | until he found a naive sucker to do the work basically for free. | In this case a college kid. | | Its the reason I really want to get out of tech. Its a goldmine | for spineless knowledge workers to get "put over the barrel" as | the story says for a fraction of what they are worth. Then those | of us that know what we are worth have to navigate | | I don't see a heroic story here. I see someone that took off | their armor and walked into battle to be slaughtered. | ggarnhart wrote: | This is an interesting take -- I don't disagree that these | sorts of things happen, but in this case, the author clearly | felt his work was paid for fairly. | | I think one's own perspective is a pretty key regulator of | what's fair and what's not. Perhaps not in the macro level, but | on a case by case basis. Is the author's point of view | incorrect in your eyes? Who else should be able to decide that, | other than the person who experienced it? | IMTDb wrote: | I love the fact that in the "explore further" section at the end | of the post, the first recommended article is "5 different ways | to fix a pothole". | mxcrossr wrote: | Ok but... why? Does anyone have enough knowledge to speculate why | that bit would prevent you from reading the code? | jxf wrote: | The bogus file header was causing them to be interpreted as a | different kind of file when opened by the viewer-editor (what | we might consider an IDE today). The code wasn't encrypted at | all and nothing prevented the author from reading it: | | > In the editor, I could also clearly see the text of the BASIC | source code for all the programs. It was there, not encrypted. | sircastor wrote: | Incidentally, I find the various copy/read protection schemes | of yesteryear absolutely fascinating. It seems like it always | comes down to some brand of cleverness, and gives credence to | the idea that there is always someone smarter than you. | | Also "Never underestimate a time-rich, money poor kid" | cyberpunk wrote: | Presumably the providers of the software also provided the | editor, it was just to silo you in. | smcameron wrote: | No, that doesn't sound right. Probably more like: | | " | | The RDOS file system provided means for protecting files by | setting attributes. Because RDOS, not being a multi-user | system, had no notion of file ownership, attributes applied | to all programs that accessed a file. The sense of the | attribute bits was, in most cases, the opposite of that in | Unix; if the bit was set, the operation was prohibited. Files | were by default created with all attribute bits cleared, | permitting all operations. The attribute bits, as identified | by the letters used to identify them in a file listing, were: | 'R': prohibited reading 'W': prohibited writing | 'P': "permanent file"; prohibited renaming or deleting the | file 'S': identified a "save" file, that is, one that | contains an executable program. 'N': prohibited | symbolic links from linking to this file 'A': | attributed protected; prohibited any further changes to the | file's attributes. (A file that had both P and A set became | un-deletable, except by reformatting the disk.) 'I': | Prohibited reading or writing by means other than direct | block I/O. (This was removed from later versions of RDOS.) | '?' and '&': User-defined attributes, ignored by RDOS | | " | | http://www.self.gutenberg.org/articles/Data_General_RDOS | mad_ned wrote: | thanks for this! I've always wondered what the deal was, | and teen me did not do any research on why the hack worked- | once I got the files visible I just moved on. It was almost | certainly this RDOS attribute stuff you show here I was | playing with (also I took some artistic license in the | post, not really sure it was 'F' vs. 'E'.) | doix wrote: | The fact that it's a single bit confuses me. If it was a full | null byte (0x00) it would be easier to explain. C strings are | null terminated, so you could assume the editor stopped reading | when it hit "the end of a string" but BASIC still executed it? | | Or if it was some unreadable ASCII character, maybe it worked | like an EOF in the editor? But the fact that he switched it | from an F to an E gives me no clues. This stuff is | unfortunately before my time, I'm sad I never got to play | around with stuff like this in my youth. | Symbiote wrote: | Some older filesystems, like ADFS[1] which I'm familiar with, | have a "type" attribute, along with the read/write/execute | (etc.) bits, as part of the directory node [2]. | | On RISC OS, as that page says, a BASIC file has type FFB. I | remember a plain text file had type FFF. | | [1] | https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/filesystems/adfs.html | | [2] https://docs.huihoo.com/doxygen/linux/kernel/3.7/adfs_8h_ | sou... | HotHotLava wrote: | The byte apparently was not part of the file contents but | part of a file header that was interpreted by the editor; | probably encoding some kind of "file type" that was displayed | differently when opened. | | However, technically, switching an 'E' for an 'F' is flipping | *two* bits :/ | johnday wrote: | 0xe to 0xf is a single bit flip. | [deleted] | NamTaf wrote: | For me, the key take-away from this story is right at the end, | where he contemplates whether he short-changed himself. If you | look at it on a per-hour basis, he got paid decently ($100 for a | few hours work in the 80s? Incredible!). However, if you look at | it from the perspective of the business value he delivered to Jim | in that transaction, it was a bargain for Jim ($100 once-off to | fix a problem taht was costing many multiples of that each month? | Hell yes!). | | And therein lies a fantastic reminder that if you can frame tthe | cost of your work in terms of the value you will provide to your | customer, rather than a flat labour rate for your time, you stand | to earn a _lot_ more. | goatherders wrote: | Great story. Thank you for sharing. | mastazi wrote: | I loved the story! | | It seems that in the comment section under the blog post, there | is good stuff too for example the one that starts with: | | > Ned (if that is your real name), I have a story with virtually | the same beginning, a different middle, and a similar end... [1] | | [1] https://madned.substack.com/p/a-teenagers-guide-to- | avoiding-... | WalterBright wrote: | As a teen I got a summer job hoeing weeds out of cracks in the | sidewalk for the town. At the end of each day I was wringing wet | with sweat and dog tired. It was the hardest I'd ever worked, and | for the least amount of money. Pretty motivating to go to | college! | ergot_vacation wrote: | These stories are are always fun to read, and this one was | especially well-written, so I'm glad it was posted. At the same | time, there's a fair bit of survivorship bias and mythology in | the "wiz kid teen helps out a clueless adult and starts a great | career in tech!" story. | | For starters, this was largely a phenomenon confined to a narrow | strip of time from the late eighties to the late 00s. Before | that, computers were too expensive and restricted for most teens | to have access to, even fairly well-off ones. After that, | smartphones hit, people moved away from desktops and local | computing/admin to phones and consolidation in the cloud(SaaS | etc), and a generation that didn't grow up with computers was | replaced with a generation that did. So the days of "Hey, I know | how to do that computer stuff!" "Great! Get in here!" are largely | over. | | Second, even in that time period, most teens that knew their way | around a system never managed to hook up with one of these sweet | deals. You'd (begrudgingly) provide support for friends and | family for free, and maybe make a few bucks off some extended | work for a friend of a friend, but nothing large or ongoing. It's | like hitting sports really hard in high school and college: some | will go pro. Most will not. | | I'm not trying to be a downer with any of this. But the story of | the wiz kid who makes it big by accident has essentially become | an archetypal story by now in some circles, and it's important to | remember it's more mythology than reality. Most teenage nerds who | liked messing with computers as a hobby didn't spin it up into an | explosive career overnight. Some decided to get more formal | training, and gradually built a career in the traditional way. | For many more, it never became anything more than a hobby, in | part because the labor demand for people who are just "pretty | good" with computers is actually fairly small, and has shrunk | dramatically over the past two decades due to consolidations | (SaaS again), offshoring and outsourcing. | jackson1442 wrote: | I don't think this phenomenon is quite "over," nor do I think | it will ever be. I actually got my current job because of a | similar situation: | | During high school, I worked two summers as a lifeguard and | didn't really care for it. It was boring, hot, and didn't pay | particularly well, especially for what we had to put up with | (read: incompetent management and being sorely understaffed). | There were days where we had so few staff that we had to get | untrained gate staff/food&bev to run slide dispatch since that | didn't require a lifeguard license, but I digress... | | My senior year, I decided to do something different- tutor | online for computer science and math. Pay was much better and I | definitely enjoyed the work more. One of my returning clients | was working on his Master's and was taking a class that was | central to his major involving python scripting. He didn't know | much Python, but found me online and I taught him the basics | and we had a good relationship going. | | After he finished his course, he was very happy with the work I | had done, and he actually offered me a job! I've been working | for his company for several months now and just recently | converted into full time for the summer. | | So, yes, the era of "wiz kids" might be over, but getting jobs | that you might not technically be "qualified" on paper for | through strange connections absolutely still happens. | tomkat0789 wrote: | Reading this reminded me of a humorous Onion video titled | "Report: 95% Of Grandfathers Got Job By Walking Right Up And Just | Asking" [0]. | | Scrolling around the comments, I'm not seeing any stories newer | than the 90's. Given the layers of HR rules, proprietary software | shenanigans, and corporate management, I expect similar stories | are rare today. | | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV_6RYVbNaw | iso1631 wrote: | Depends on the size of a firm. If you rock up to a small firm | and talk to the owner, you could well get a job, they don't | have HR rules and corporate management. | devnull255 wrote: | I love this story because the story has a an unwritten and deeper | title "Do what you love and love what you do". True, while the | unwritten title may not have grabbed most of those here who | really appreciated it (myself included), it underlies what | arguably really motivates a lot of teens to work any job, which | is working a job doing what they like. | | I was "tricked" or "crimped" into my first job the day before my | 16th birthday. I accompanied my dad on a shopping trip, and he | asked the manager there if he was hiring, gesturing to me. I | didn't have a chance to express my own point of view in the | course of this conversation. And by the time we left the store, I | was supposed to show up the next day to be hired. | | I wasn't thrilled to work there, but the first paycheck I | received motivated me to continue working. It funded my evenings | out and my sci-fi and comic book collecting, and let me save for | my first car, a '71 red Buick Skylark with powerful V8. | | But I would have liked it better if the story of my first job was | more like this story. | zwog wrote: | I have a kind of similar story when I started studying in the | late 2000s years. There was a company that had a specialized and | really expensive measurement device. But the vendor went out of | service. They changed part of their system but kept the | measurement device only to find out it could not talk to the new | system because the file system of the data was proprietary to the | measurement device. | | I got a student job at that company and one of my first tasks | (and that of several students before me) was to open measurement | results on the device and type them into excel spreadsheets. I | did this for an hour or so until I became totally bored so I | started to tinker around. The measurement device had it's own PC | that booted Windows (I think it was 95 or 98) and autostarted | their software in full screen/some sort of . This was easy to | bypass via the task manager and running explorer.exe. I found out | that the proprietary file format was simplay an MS Access file | with a different extension. I tried to open it, but the file was | password protected. At this time I had little to none experience | with programming or anything else that was "low level" computer | stuff, but I occasionally stumbled about writeups about hacks and | exploits and skimmed over them. So I was pretty sure that there | had to be a hardcoded password somewhere. I started to open every | file I could in a text editor with no luck. Then I got a hex | editor and opened the binaries and finally, in a dll there was a | password. The next few days at this job I spent teaching myself | enough Python to read the Access files and write the contents | into an Excel file. | | This worked and I used the free time to study/eat/sleep while | getting paid for it but then one of my supervisors found out that | I wasn't doing anything but still got results and wondered how I | did it. He immediately put me onto another problem they had, thus | starting my career as a software engineer. | scrumper wrote: | This is super similar to my start. I was hired at 17 one summer | to do data entry for a surveying company, by putting timesheets | created in Excel into a central system for billing clients. | That got boring after a day, so I figured out how to use VBA | (Excel on Macintosh System 8!) and wrote a macro that I linked | to a button and put on the spreadsheet template, hidden off in | the corner somewhere. When I got the next set of sheets back I | hit the buttons and my job was done. | | I showed the bosses, and was immediately put to work on some | much more interesting stuff linking Lotus Notes with SQL Server | for reporting and dashboarding, and then I was off to the | races. | | (The previous year I'd spent the summer making concrete garden | ornaments with a group of ex-cons in a shed in the back of a | farm - an experience which certainly made me appreciate the | comforts of doing spreadsheets in an air-conditioned office, | though my muscles were never quite as good.) | lifeisstillgood wrote: | Its weird how luck plays a part in all this - I remember as a | Student temping for the giant Audit firm, Arthur Andersen | (become accenture eventually). I was doing something like | typing from one system to another. I think I found VBA and | demonstrated how I could do a weeks work in a lunch hour. | | My boss took one look, freaked out and I was back at the | Temping agency. | | We are still very far from a Software Literate society. | PenguinCoder wrote: | Same story here. Was working for a manufacturer doing help | desk/support. One of two people in the dept. First task was | to help someone in a different dept sort through PDF files, | and rename them to the company standard format. I wrote a | python script to do this instead of renaming one by one. | | Got reamed because "there's no way that is accurate and it | might mess something up". | | They where renaming the file based on the date of review, and | the creators name.... Both of which were in the damn | metadata. | MauranKilom wrote: | It wasn't the humble beginnings of my programming career (far | from it), but I still ran into a similar situation in an | internship at a recycling company, just a couple of years | ago. "Hey we got all these daily excel sheets that someone | needs to sit down and aggregate into these monthly balance | sheets." A couple hours of VBA later and I had automated it. | | Then a few days later, I happened to talk to someone from the | accounting side about this experience. She mentioned that | they were actually also tracking these same numbers and | apparently had an automated system already. The production | floor just knew nothing of it and had been doing the same | task by hand forever. I guess the realization how inefficient | organizations can be was probably the greater learning | experience for me there. | ergot_vacation wrote: | Your story is probably the more common one by far. Most | employers and managers (especially for starter/entry-level | jobs) are incredibly insecure, and any sign of intellect or | creativity scares them. I've learned the hard way to never | ruffle feathers by trying to think or solve problems at full | power on a job. Just do what's expected and move on. | andai wrote: | > I've learned the hard way to never ruffle feathers by | trying to think or solve problems at full power on a job. | Just do what's expected and move on. | | This might be the saddest thing I've read recently. | lifeisstillgood wrote: | Trust in Mr Schumpeter :-) | jdbernard wrote: | It's also why the nimble newcomer can often disrupt and | slay the giant incumbent. It's a lot easier to create | high-performance environments when you have teams small | enough for all members to know each other personally than | when you have hordes of people and have to use lowest- | common-denominator bureaucracy to manage them in bulk. | 3pt14159 wrote: | My dad did this for someone's _whole team_ as a favour | because he overheard what they were doing over lunch or | something like that. Later, he met the manager of the team he | 'd done it for and asked if they were going to transfer any | of the employees that got freed up for the work and she said | "no, there's still lots of work to do and the speedup, while | helpful, wasn't major." | | Went to her retirement party a year later and got the truth: | Her pension was tied to her salary as a manager as an average | of her last three years, and her salary as a manager was | directly tied to her number of reports. If she'd have given | up half the team as she could have, she would have lost | hundreds of thousands of dollars over the rest of her life. | | There was a lot of that type of stuff going on when computers | first came in and hackers here and there started optimizing | things. Individual interest and politics doesn't disappear. | foreigner wrote: | My first job was at a local computer shop. I literally got out | the phone book and called them all in order. The one that finally | hired me was called ZAM. | mod wrote: | My first tech job was web dev at a small local shop. I also got | out the phone book (and performed extensive google searches) to | find all of the local web development companies. | | I emailed them all, and wound up with two interviews. One was a | wordpress sweat shop, and the interview went poorly--the owner | had not even read my resume, started my interview while on a | conference call, and told me my job responsibility was to "make | her happy." When she said that, I politely declined to finish | the interview. | | The next went fantastically, and I wound up landing that job in | a 3-person shop. I loved those people, and I'm very grateful | for the opportunity they provided me. I also think we provided | a lot of value for some important causes, which makes me | remember the work very fondly, despite being in way over my | head many, many times. | residualmind wrote: | For some reason, this story made me very happy. Thank you for | sharing. | jmmcd wrote: | Key quote which shows that this young person was a problem- | solver, even if his computer skills weren't elite: | | > I created a "good" BASIC file from scratch [...] Then I | compared it to one of the "bad" ones. | WayToDoor wrote: | I was GOING TO comment this. He was a teenager and found a | solution no one else has found. That's some great problem- | solving skills if you ask me. | movedx wrote: | > GOING TO | | ... mate :P | wizzwizz4 wrote: | At least it's not COME FROM. | qualudeheart wrote: | INTERCAL is a wonderful thing. | arduinomancer wrote: | That scenario happens so often as a programmer. | | You could read the docs or find the right person to talk to but | its just faster to poke the black box and watch it's behavior. | | Aka the scientific method of debugging | lostlogin wrote: | I think this method skips step one. | | 1) You turn it off and then on. | | 2) You look at one that works. | stuff4ben wrote: | it reminds me of the time I "hacked" a strip poker game on my | C64. I noticed some files on disk had a number after them and | assumed they were images. I just reversed the numbers and | voila, I started out with a naked lady that gradually got | clothed. I didn't really care to learn poker anymore after | that. | ergot_vacation wrote: | "A strip poker game on my c64." | | I can only imagine what this must have looked like. | jpm_sd wrote: | Wonder no more! https://archive.org/details/C64Gamevideoarc | hive109-StripPoke... | FredPret wrote: | Less is more! | hearinf82 wrote: | My summer job is a lot like the job that he avoided - it requires | "manual labor." But I know Java so... if you know of a computer- | related job that's remote or in northern Colorado, let me know. | ggambetta wrote: | What a nice story :) Reminds me of how I got my first job! | | It was 1994 or 1995, I was probably 14, I had outgrown the ZX | Spectrum and had a 486 at home. My dad and I were in a computer | parts shop, and near us was this guy my dad's age having trouble | with his own computer. He was having random crashes, and nobody | at the shop seemed to figure out what it was. | | My dad suggested I offer my help. We approached the guy, an | architect like my dad. They chatted, and in the end I got the | guy's computer home. In theory this was about "reinstalling | Windows" or something. | | Reinstalling Windows didn't help, and I don't know how, but I | figured out that one of the four 1 MB SIMMs (this was before | DIMMs!) was bad (I think by trying different combinations of 2 | SIMMs at a time until I isolated the one that caused the | crashes). I triumphantly announced this to the guy, got paid some | trivial amount, and he took the machine away. I was proud, my | parents were proud. | | A couple of days later, the guy calls again. He had gone to the | seller, gotten new SIMMs, and the machine was still crashing. My | dad told me he had an "oh, fuck" moment right there (but he | didn't tell me). | | I stood by my diagnosis. I must have sounded confident enough, | because the guy took the machine back to the seller again - and | they confirmed that the new SIMM was also bad! | | Everyone was suitably impressed. The guy offered me a super part- | time job, I think 2 or 4 hours a week. He ran a small | architecture/building studio, himself and an architecture | student. | | I was "the computer guy" for a while. I set up the LAN (all | coaxial cable and T-junctions - we're talking prehistory here). I | designed a logo in MS Paint. Later I got my most ambitious task: | to write a system to track the monthly payments for the flats | they were building. | | My C++ knowledge was extremely limited, having only recently | outgrown QBasic. But I took Borland C++, wrote a text-mode | windowing system (with mouse support!), and the payment tracking | system, which even printed invoices. Sounds impressive, it | worked, and it looked OK, but under the hood it was an | abomination. Off the top of my head: I didn't understand dynamic | memory, so each "window" had a hardcoded limit of 10 edit fields, | 10 buttons, 10 labels,...; I didn't know the first thing about | databases, so the state was serialized to disk by writing the raw | contents of the structs to a file ("works on my machine!"); I was | oblivious to the idea of event-based anything, so the whole thing | was polling constantly and possibly using 100% of the only CPU in | the system - but it was the DOS time, there wasn't anything else | running on the computer, so why not? :) | | I kept that job for a couple of years, I believe until I started | university and got a part-time dev job, then got a full-time dev | job, then quit it to start and run my game development company, | which I quit 10 years later to leave South America behind, and | make the jump to Google Zurich. | | Here's to humble beginnings! | mkovach wrote: | I love this. When I was 17 my dad got me a summer job on the | plant he worked at. 40 hours a week in the parts shop, ordering | parts, getting parts, and running around to different places to | pickup parts. Actually I didn't mind it, but it was hot and dirty | and my dad was my boss. | | They had a computer system there to keep the inventory, running | dBase III and hooked up to a NetWare network. | | First day: No reports could be printed. Reloaded the various | drivers, re-ran the reports. | | Second day: They told me about a bug that caused the counts to be | off so after checking things in, I had to manually add the right | answers to the totals. Fixed the bug in dBase app. | | Third day: The pull me to the front office, I'm working in the IT | department and somebody's else kid is working in the parts shop. | beastman82 wrote: | I filled potholes and fixed roads for 4 summers and it's one of | my fondest memories. | globular-toast wrote: | Fucking A, man. | mod wrote: | I worked in the hot Florida outdoors, with children, for about | 7 years through high school and after. Minimum wage. It's the | part of my life I'd most want to re-live, though I can't say | things have gotten harder or anything. | | I had everything I wanted. Fitness, a rewarding job, a running | vehicle, friends (via coworkers), and a decent set of fishing | gear. | jugg1es wrote: | Definitely not a thankless job! | Tycho wrote: | _And I was decent at programming in BASIC, after many hours of | time spent trying to write games on the neighbor's TRS-80 | computer._ | | I bet lots of people have stories like this. Does it still | happen? Someone in the neighbourhood has some unusual piece of | technology, other people hang out there and learn how to use it. | jugg1es wrote: | I have a story similar to many of the others here. Mine was in | the mid 90s when a kid could make good money developing websites. | The hardest part was the client interactions, which is not | something a 14 year old is particularly good at. | | But the real take-away is that this era of computing was a true | green field for the kids growing up in it. My cousins, who are | over 10 years younger than me, grew up in a totally different | world and, despite having used computers their whole life, have | no idea how they work or how to build stuff with them. | | A childhood spent writing batch files in order to run DOS X-Wing | is very different than one spent loading a CD into the 1st gen | Xbox. | | I feel bad for my own kids, who are surrounded by technology that | is walled off and inaccessible. Even 'View Source' on web pages | is virtually useless now-a-days. It's a lot harder to get into | the internals of systems than it used to be. | jkestner wrote: | Absolutely. I want to make products that are accessible under | the hood. It's not for computers any more, but then there are | many other objects we're adding computing to. | | In the meantime, I'll start the kids on my old Apple ][e if I | can smuggle it by my spouse. | cmos wrote: | It was 1992 and I was a high school senior. My teacher got me a | job at the local DPW in the electical department. I was to work | in the warehouse under a guy named Al who was an old timer and | lost his hand in a forklift accident 30 years prior. My job was | to clean the warehouse, and when I was done Al told me to 'go | hide somewhere' which I did, at the top of the shelves 20' in the | air, which I had also cleaned. This got boring and so I wandered | into the main office where people were huddled over a computer. | They were doing a mail-merge with quick basic to inform customers | that their power would be out, and it wasn't working. I looked | over their shoulders and it was exactly what I had been doing to | send out mailings to companies for free stuff as I had read in | Radio-Electonics magazine. I fix the problem, and the Chief | Engineer said 'come with me' and takes me to the (air | conditioned!) sub-station and into an even colder computer room | where they had just setup the SCADA system to control the towns | breakers and monitor the power. Nobody knew how to program it, so | he pointed to a 3' pile of manuals and said this was my new job. | By the end of the summer we saved the town millions by siphoning | power from the local college at peak power demand. I still hung | out with Al, and helped him in the mornings. The linesmen still | made fun of me, even more so when I accidentally turned off half | the towns power for 15 minutes. | ergot_vacation wrote: | Did you also invent Spicy Cheetos? | 3pt14159 wrote: | > saved the town millions by siphoning power from the local | college at peak power demand. | | I'd like to hear more about the details of how this worked. Did | the college have its own power source like a research reactor? | Was this technically legal or in some part of a grey area? | gpm wrote: | > Did the college have its own power source like a research | reactor? | | Not the person you're replying to (and never directly | involved in electricity generation), but my university just | had it's own small power plant: | https://www.fs.utoronto.ca/utilities-and-building- | operations... | | I assume it was a mix of historical coincidence and a | solution for less-interruptible power supply for the labs, | but I'm not really sure. | irrational wrote: | The university I attended had large smoke stacks that old | maps said belonged to the power plant. I never saw anything | come out of them, so I assume by the 90s they had switched to | using city power, but I wonder now if it was common for | universities in the old days to have their own power plants? | R0b0t1 wrote: | The land grant universities were often in the middle of | nowhere. I imagine not uncommon. | ed25519FUUU wrote: | Such a fun story. I'm glad you and Al still hung out. | throwaway5752 wrote: | This is one of the best things that I've read here. It's | awesome that you got the opportunity, figured it out, saved | energy and money, and still helped out on the physical work. | Unrelated, Woods Hole does great work. | ed25519FUUU wrote: | The comments here are full of delight. So many people who had | others over a barrel and could have charged so much money but | didn't! And it actually still seemed to have worked out great in | the long run. | teeray wrote: | I started working at my town's library during the summer, putting | books away. When I later started to learn about algorithms and | data structures, I kept thinking back to pushing that cart of | books around the stacks (sorting them ahead of time was faster), | rebalancing the distribution of books among a shelf, etc. Tons | and tons of CS concepts are made physical in the library. | znpy wrote: | The most interesting thing is probably that in 1982 or whatever | you could find a nice summer gig, work 20h/week for the summer, | and pay a full academic year and a computer. | mod wrote: | He specifically noted that his tuition was paid for. He was | paying for supplies & incidentals. | | Also $400/week in 1982 was fantastic money for an 18 year old. | So a normal school-kid could not, in fact, replicate this. | ninive wrote: | Same here, thanks Ned, this really touched me. I was 9 yo on a | hot Italian summer day of 1985 when my dad bought his first | computer for the bag-handcrafting company he still has with mom. | I had my C64 since 1983 and I was also quite fluent in Basic at | that point, so I was super curious to see the new IBM XT 8088D in | action. | | The sales agent from this "big" Italian company arrived, unboxed | the PC, and started to explain to my dad the default MS-DOS | commands. I was sitting there sneaking the prompt commands he was | typing when, while installing the accounting software (which was | the selling reason) the installation utility failed with an error | twice and the sales guy was in a panic. A new version of the | software was shipped early that week, and this was the first live | installation of it. He tried some commands, started to screw up | turning the PC OFF and ON, and at the end, he was completely | clueless. | | That's when I've stepped in - I've gently asked him permission to | touch the keyboard and once got access, I started to play with | MS-DOS and found the batch file that was responsible for the | installation. The guy was looking at me with an expression that | mixed surprise and hope when I've found out this file was a | script that was similar to Basic and I've found a way to edit it. | After poking for 1 hour in tests and trials, I've finally fixed a | bug on a conditional that was bringing the data loading to a dead | disk path. | | The guy talked with his department the same day, and a manager | from the company called me to understand what I did. They were so | thankful! Nobody paid me a cent for this but after that phone | call, I realized my passion could also be my future job and life, | and 36 years later is still true. Thanks again! | eb0la wrote: | I wonder if with this "big" Italian company you mean Olivetti. | They had their own 8088 PC and if I remember well they also | sold IBM back in the 80s. | TomVDB wrote: | Same here. The machines were really good looking too. | ninive wrote: | Thanks, yep I think you are right about Olivetti, but in this | case the company was Buffetti, a national-wide office | supplier company that moved into software in the '80s to surf | the PC era, cooperating with IBM for the hardware. I think at | that point that was the first version of their software, and | the department didn't last a long time. | ppierald wrote: | Age 14, I worked 2 hours a day, 5 days a week at the local fish | market doing clean up and end of day work. Nasty stuff. I worked | the summer before college at a friend of my parent's warehouse | basically relabeling overstock canned goods with a white label | for use in restaurants. Hot, loud, and smelly job. During my | sophomore year, I thought I wanted to drop out. My dad said he | could probably get me into the plumber's union, and no disrespect | to plumbers (they probably make more money than I do), but the | memories of that work made me go back and give college one more | shot. It all worked out in the end. I graduated, found work, and | am still in the industry happily three decades later, but it all | could have gone the other way if not for those hard manual work | summer jobs. | me_me_me wrote: | That was an interesting and well written story. | | Early days of programming were sure facinating. Small businesses | using other small businesses to write custom software. Lots of | tinkering and hacking. Interesting times. | FridayoLeary wrote: | Who are these people who write software locks. Can anyone here | justify it for me? It's seems to be just plain evil. But maybe | i'm attacking a straw man. I don't know. | lostlogin wrote: | It was more like a curtain than a lock. | thathndude wrote: | Loved this one. When I was mid-20's I found myself in a "how | much" situation as well. Thankfully I had the gumption to "go for | it." | | I had found a solution to save the business 100k+ when another | contractor charged 10k+ and failed to complete a job because the | business couldn't pay them any more. The thing is, once I started | digging into it, the other contractor had done 95% of the work; | It just needed a nudge to get finished. But As far as the | business was concerned, it was 0% done because it was an all-or- | nothing situation (either it worked or didn't). | | I did the final 5% and charged $3,000. I presented it as "I can | fix the problem for 3k." Was that completely fair to them I | sometimes wonder? I don't lose any sleep over it -- they had a | problem and I fixed it. I think it was wrong for the first | contractor not to finish the work up and deal with a final | invoice rather than insisting on pay in advance and abandoning | them that close to the finish lone. | | As far as the business was concerned I was a very cheap solution, | and I made an hourly rate of about $2k per hour. | somedude895 wrote: | It's crazy sometimes the gap between an appropriate hourly pay | and the monetary value of the output. I'm sure OP would have | come up with something in between as well, but being put on the | spot and caught completely off guard like that for the first | time I think the $100 was a fine deal. | xuki wrote: | You saved the business 100k+ and you charged 3k? Next time call | yourself a consultant and add another zero. | lostlogin wrote: | Well they had failed to pay "$10k+", so it seems likely that | $30k wouldn't work. | [deleted] | StavrosK wrote: | That's just economics. It's just like Apple or Samsung | "magically" deciding that the price to fix your broken screen | is just slightly under what it costs to buy the same phone | used. | tudorw wrote: | Old fashioned economics ;) http://happyplanetindex.org/ | jmuguy wrote: | Great story, and that approach to troubleshooting ought to be | familiar to anyone that worked in IT and seemed to "magically" | figure out problems (at least to anyone observing them). | | One note on editing - you use the phrase "to be honest" in two | consecutive sentences in the first paragraph. | ddingus wrote: | Honestly honest, honest! | mad_ned wrote: | whups. i really need to hire an editor, with all that crazy | substack money :-) ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-05-19 23:00 UTC)