[HN Gopher] 1991: Trade Wars 2002
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       1991: Trade Wars 2002
        
       Author : TheLocehiliosan
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2021-05-27 11:04 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (if50.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (if50.substack.com)
        
       | xenophonf wrote:
       | TradeWars 2002 is alive and well! Star Killer's server is
       | probably my favorite place to play:
       | 
       | http://www.oregonsouth.com/ice9/
       | 
       | Tools like TWXProxy and Mombot still see frequent updates:
       | 
       | https://github.com/MicroBlaster/TWXProxy
       | 
       | SWATH, despite its age, works great (nowadays I use it for very
       | simple macros and as a front end to TWXProxy):
       | 
       | http://swath.net/
       | 
       | Tournament-level play is incredible. Deep strategy, full
       | automation. You definitely do not warp around willy-nilly unless
       | you want a planet full of photon missiles and quasar cannons
       | dropped on your head. Sure, the ANSI graphics means you have to
       | use your imagination a little more than in EVE, but if anything,
       | that makes it _more_ fun for me.
        
         | korethr wrote:
         | > You definitely do not warp around willy-nilly unless you want
         | a planet full of photon missiles and quasar cannons dropped on
         | your head.
         | 
         | Oh, god. Don't remind me. I'm there, happily minding my own
         | business, trading between ports in adjacent systems, and in
         | warps a volcanic class planet with a level 6 citadel. Fucking
         | death stars.
         | 
         | You wanna blast me, a hapless newb who stumbled into your
         | territory, out of the sky, fine. But running the interdictor
         | generator is just being mean about it. :P
        
       | pwned1 wrote:
       | OMG. I hosted a BBS with TW2002 and purchased the license way
       | back when. It's still available from the original author:
       | https://eisonline.classictw.com/
       | 
       | It looks like a lot of sites are still hosting it. On man, so
       | many memories of the BBS days.
        
         | evanelias wrote:
         | Minor correction, the original author (Gary Martin) sold the
         | rights to TW2002 to the current owner/developer (John
         | Pritchett) in 1998.
         | 
         | Edit: actually it was 2000. Wikipedia mistakenly says 1998, but
         | that was when John first got involved in the project.
        
       | _marlowe_ wrote:
       | Lived in TW2002 on Atlantis BBS for the better part of 2 years.
       | Good times.
        
       | lonelygirl15a wrote:
       | I found awk for DOS on a BBS, and used it to help my TW play.
       | When getting into a newly generated map, I'd spend the first
       | night or two moving around as much as possible, logging the
       | session in the terminal program (ProComm?).
       | 
       | Then I'd run the log through an awk script to print out a map.
        
       | boboche wrote:
       | Empire on C64, tradewars and global war (risk) were so much fun
       | back in the golden age of BBses.
       | 
       | Funny coincidence as I was searching exactly tradewars on my ipad
       | a week ago to see if there was something similar. I'm being
       | nostalgic nowadays, if someone has any suggestions for android or
       | iOS games, store searches are usually not returning small gems.
        
       | korethr wrote:
       | Well, this a nostalgic article for me.
       | 
       | I first started dialing into bulletin boards as a tween, on a 386
       | (and later a 486) cobbled together from bits scrounged from
       | garage sales and the e-waste from the various businesses of my
       | parent's friends or friends of friends. I eventually came into an
       | 8-bit ISA modem, and upon recognizing what it was, added it into
       | my computer, and snuck a telephone cable from an open jack into
       | my room. I found the BBS listings in a local computer magazine
       | and and started dialing out, exploring my area code. To be
       | honest, I don't recall how I got the terminal program I initially
       | used; I just recall that it was bare-bones and kinda janky. As a
       | kid, you bet your sweet ass I went straight for the games section
       | if there was one. And there I discovered TW:2002 and Legend Of
       | the Red Dragon.
       | 
       | The sysop of one of the boards I dialed into noticed I was
       | connecting at 2400bps at a time when 28.8k and 33.6 were
       | commonplace. He pulled me into sysop chat to ask what was up and
       | I explained my situation with my computer being cobbled together
       | from scrap. He offered to send me a newer modem as well as some
       | terminal software that didn't suck, and so I gave him my mailing
       | address. I don't recall if I got my parents' permission to do so.
       | In either case, a week or so later package showed up in the mail
       | with a 16-bit ISA 14.4k modem and a floppy disk with a terminal
       | program that indeed didn't suck. And with connection speeds that
       | didn't cause a full screen of ANSI art take minutes to load, line
       | by painful line, TradeWars became _much_ more playable.
       | 
       | I logged many hours in TW:2002 through middle school and early
       | high school. The holy grail I heard about, but initially couldn't
       | play, were those really fancy BBSes that had multiple lines and
       | the latest version that let you play against other players at the
       | same time. Those were fancier operations where you had to pay
       | monies for your dial-in time, which was not a particularly
       | feasible thing when you're not even old enough to have a job,
       | much less a bank account. It until wasn't towards the end of high
       | school when I found a few sites offering connections over telnet
       | that I got to experience multi-player play. And promptly learned
       | just how bad of a player I'd been all that time.
       | 
       | A back-burnered project still intend to get to is to set up a
       | retro system to run a multi-line (or maybe even network
       | connected!) BBS, with all the various classic games of that era,
       | including TW:2002.
        
       | friedegg wrote:
       | I still remember one particular game in the mid-90s where there
       | was basically a corporation of several "evil" players vs. me and
       | another "good" player. We eventually played to a stalemate where
       | neither side was going to get a clear victory.
        
       | redm wrote:
       | What fond memories I have of playing and hosting a TW2002 (and
       | BRE) BBS in the early 90's. I find though, trying to revisit
       | those fond memories is a mistake, they never live up to the
       | original experience because the world has evolved, and so have I.
        
         | dailo10 wrote:
         | I would love to read an article about BRE and SRE. :)
        
       | jmkb wrote:
       | Hah, this was my jam in the day. I wrote mods and utilities,
       | custom map generators, custom ship types, fixed a lot of bugs
       | that cheaters would use. Stepped through the code in an assembly
       | language debugger and reverse engineered all the data files.
       | 
       | One of my favorite memories was fixing a cheater's bug that was
       | triggered by entering a negative number into a certain dialog.
       | There were no legitimate features in the game that required
       | negative numbers, so I figured if I could prevent the entry of
       | _all_ negative numbers, it would fix this bug plus any similar
       | undiscovered ones. I was very much an assembly language novice,
       | but I knew that somewhere in that executable had to be the
       | routine that parsed ASCII strings to convert them to integers,
       | and it most likely had the minus sign (ASCII value 45) encoded as
       | a constant. I stubbornly changed each byte value 45 to 255 until
       | I found the right one. Since it wasn 't possible to enter ASCII
       | 255 in the dialogs... bug fixed!
       | 
       | When Gary Martin finally released a new version (2112?), the
       | executables and data files were all encrypted, so we couldn't
       | make custom ships anymore. I wasn't able to crack the encryption
       | but I wrote a "TSR" (=terminate and stay resident -- DOS's
       | approximation of multi-tasking) that would wait for the Trade
       | Wars program to unpack itself and then write patches directly
       | into the RAM. Good times.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Sometimes I miss the days before protected memory.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Jemaclus wrote:
       | I've been working on a version of TW2002 in Go for awhile now.
       | What I keep getting stuck on is the economics! Does anyone have
       | any thoughts on how the calculations work as far as supply/demand
       | and prices between ports? I've got a really naive implementation
       | now, but i'd like something as close to the original as possible.
       | 
       | Similar question for combat stuff, but I haven't gotten that far
       | in my build yet...
        
       | zwily wrote:
       | Reading this brought back so many good memories.
        
       | Jeema101 wrote:
       | Man. I used to play the heck out of Tradewars back in the day on
       | local BBSes.
       | 
       | I distinctly remember logging in one day on a certain BBS I
       | played on only to realize one of my corporation partners had
       | robbed the corporation blind and left us all floating in space.
       | 
       | But getting betrayed and then becoming a fugitive from your
       | former partner, and then plotting your comeback, was all part of
       | the game ...and ultimately fun in it's own right I suppose. :)
       | Good times.
        
       | fouc wrote:
       | Anyone remember Telemate and the macros it supported? So great
       | for connecting to BBSes and playing games like TW2002
        
       | mgolawala wrote:
       | People who have fond memories of playing Trade Wars when they
       | were younger should check out EVE Online
       | (https://www.eveonline.com/)
       | 
       | There are enough similarities that I would find it hard to
       | believe that EVE Online was not, at the very least, influenced by
       | Trade Wars.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | a spreadsheet and corporate espionage simulator masquerading as
         | a spaceship video game...
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | I recall this game as a "door" from a dial-up BBS. I spent part
       | of a summer building my empire and then dialed in one day to find
       | that it had been attacked and destroyed. I was pretty depressed
       | about that so I wrote a note to the sysop (a guy I knew and
       | worked with). My note was about sportsmanship and good will, and
       | how the destruction of my empire did not represent those values.
       | I asked the sysop to please pass on the note to the other player.
       | The terse response that I got back from the sysop was; "Your
       | message was properly addressed."
        
       | rblatz wrote:
       | I played so much of this in my youth, I remember finding an
       | awesome helper programs that would help you keep track of the
       | discovered universe, build maps, and keep track of good trading
       | routes.
        
       | j4yav wrote:
       | What a great game. A modern version that kept the simple and pvp
       | nature of the original game would be cool.
        
         | polpo wrote:
         | The great thing about TW2002 is that it was simple on the
         | surface, which made it accessible. You could have fun warping
         | around, trading goods, but then eventually you'd start digging
         | and find the incredible depth in the game. The first time I
         | stumbled on the Starbase blew my mind, and it just kept on
         | going from there. Getting a Federal Commission (or going evil),
         | terraforming planets, building citadels, finding dead ends in
         | space to set up your planet, setting up corporations...
        
           | xen2xen1 wrote:
           | And now I'm going to have to set it up in docker again.. I
           | only remember some of that.
        
           | sseagull wrote:
           | Oh man, I mentioned the time limits in my other comment. But
           | citadels and stuff took sooooo long. Depending on your setup,
           | it could be months until everything was built up. I remember
           | impatiently checking the countdown on my citadels (28 days,
           | 27 days, 26 days,...)
        
         | sseagull wrote:
         | One aspect of TW that I feel would be missing from any modern
         | reincarnation would be the time limit you usually had on a BBS.
         | Only being able to play for a set time a day is basically
         | unheard of now. But it made you want to play it all the more,
         | and I couldn't wait until the next morning when my time
         | allotment was refreshed :)
         | 
         | I kind of wish this was true nowadays. I don't have hours and
         | hours to play anymore, and so tend to avoid multiplayer online
         | since the playing field is heavily tilted to those who have
         | lots of time to play. That was somewhat less of an issue in the
         | BBS days (on my BBS, anyway).
         | 
         | (Plus, a BBS might also periodically delete the universe and
         | start over (a big bang!) which would again level the playing
         | field for a bit.
         | 
         | Edit: Just remembered, in addition to the time limit on the
         | BBS, you also had a specified number of 'turns' in the game. So
         | you really had to plan sometimes. (and bigger ships took more
         | turns to move per sector...)
        
           | Jiocus wrote:
           | > I kind of wish this was true nowadays. I don't have hours
           | and hours to play anymore, and so tend to avoid multiplayer
           | online since the playing field is heavily tilted to those who
           | have lots of time to play.
           | 
           | Have you considered EVE Online? So many aspects of playing is
           | your character carrying out processes and awaiting countdowns
           | for hours and days - months even, even when you're away.
        
           | fma wrote:
           | LOL yeah if I recall I'd have different accounts (I think
           | that was frowned upon?) and play on different BBSes to get my
           | 'hit' :)
           | 
           | I'd remember the days getting stuck in the middle of no where
           | when I'm out of turns and you hope no one comes across you
           | and attack you.
           | 
           | I was in middle school/high school when I played this
           | game...and I'd tie up the house line. Even if I had no turns
           | somethings I'd hang around and chat on the conference with
           | people.
           | 
           | I played a lot on the BBS Family Entertainment (Fament?) I
           | believe...I think that group is still playing and Cruncher is
           | still pretty involved and hosts games.
        
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