[HN Gopher] Show HN: Redact - Automated deletion for your conten...
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       Show HN: Redact - Automated deletion for your content on social
       networks
        
       Author : ds
       Score  : 98 points
       Date   : 2021-05-27 14:10 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (redact.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (redact.dev)
        
       | aarchi wrote:
       | Is Redact affiliated with the EFF? The prominent "Support the
       | EFF" banner suggests so, but the FAQ makes no mention.
        
         | ds wrote:
         | No, we just believe in the mission of privacy and they seem
         | like the biggest supporters in the business. They paved the
         | road we now walk upon, so its due to give them something back.
         | 
         | *edit- Seeing comments below, I can see the issues. We will
         | remove the 'Support the EFF' banner for now until we can do it
         | in a better manner.
        
           | trutannus wrote:
           | You may want to make that clear. I took that to mean this was
           | EFF sanctioned, and that changed how I was going to vet this
           | before I used it. That said, I love this project.
        
             | dr_kiszonka wrote:
             | I support this suggestion very strongly. Currently, it
             | really does seem like the service is affiliated with the
             | EFF, which is misleading.
             | 
             | Keeping the current design has at least two drawbacks.
             | 
             | - First, it makes you seem shady. After realizing that you
             | are probably not affiliated with the EFF, I became very
             | suspicious of the service, especially since it is closed-
             | source.
             | 
             | - Second, there might be legal ramifications of
             | "pretending" to be affiliated with the EFF.
             | 
             | If the banner wasn't there, I would have most likely
             | already downloaded and started using Redact for my personal
             | research project. It looks like a great product!
        
       | yosito wrote:
       | Last time I ran a script on one of my social media profiles,
       | Instagram locked my account, even though I ran the script in
       | read-only mode. How does this prevent being locked out?
        
       | jpdb wrote:
       | I'm one of the people who helped build one tiny part of this, and
       | I think the coolest part of Redact is the fact that it makes it
       | possible to clean up your social media history without totally
       | nuking it from orbit. Early on, we thought that most people would
       | use the service once to delete everything, and never touch it
       | again or only use it once every few months or even years. We
       | quickly found that a lot of people want to continue to use social
       | media services and like retaining the contents of their social
       | media and history of their lives, but want to clean up some
       | things that don't reflect their current views or could cause
       | issues today.
        
       | guavaNinja wrote:
       | Beware, 3 years ago I lost my facebook account after I deleted
       | all my posts using a python script that opened my facebook wall
       | and iterated over the posts. Couple of days later, I was banned
       | on facebook and whatsapp and never restored my old fb account,
       | but somehow got back my whatsapp's. Probably they watch for
       | possible bot interactions and flag them.
        
       | tobr wrote:
       | I would like to have this for Hacker News! Then again as far as I
       | know there's no way to delete old posts other than to email a
       | mod, so I suppose I could just schedule a regular automatic
       | email.
        
       | lucasnortj wrote:
       | Delete all of your social media accounts full stop
        
       | aboringusername wrote:
       | If there are any Redact devs here:
       | 
       | Please add a feature to 'edit' messages with random data rather
       | than redact. This has the advantage of not only updating the
       | 'live' database but also if it's backed up in the future they'll
       | only have the garbage data and not what you actually said.
       | 
       | Being able to overwrite history (where possible) is extremely
       | valuable that reddit/discord let you do.
       | 
       | Additionally, there should be a 'spoofer' mode, that randomly
       | makes comments, uploads multi GB files full of random data and
       | adds noise to further enhance privacy.
       | 
       | I take great joy in "abusing" text areas and file upload boxes on
       | the internet - it makes it significantly harder to track a
       | subject in any way when you are making 1000 comments a day,
       | uploading 10,000 photos you found randomly online and are joining
       | 50 different channels ;)
       | 
       | To be honest I should probably make a script to do that,
       | especially on HN...
        
         | city41 wrote:
         | Just a heads up, Reddit now rate limits edits. Many redact
         | tools out there have not adapted yet unfortunately.
         | 
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/mg077m/not_even_...
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | > To be honest I should probably make a script to do that,
         | especially on HN...
         | 
         | Please do not do this to HN. It'd make the service way less
         | usable for everyone else.
        
         | dr_kiszonka wrote:
         | > Please add a feature to 'edit' messages with random data
         | rather than redact. This has the advantage of not only updating
         | the 'live' database but also if it's backed up in the future
         | they'll only have the garbage data and not what you actually
         | said.
         | 
         | This is a good point. Reddit is frequently uploaded to BigQuery
         | [0]
         | 
         | 0. https://console.cloud.google.com/bigquery?project=fh-
         | bigquer...
        
         | slg wrote:
         | Maybe I am alone on this, but it seems pretty unethical and
         | selfish to "abuse" these systems and intentionally upload large
         | amounts of garbage data in order to improve your own personal
         | privacy. It is the equivalent of polluting. Feel free to
         | overwrite and delete your comments to protect privacy, but
         | users uploading "multi GB files full of random data" is putting
         | a real burden on other people and is going to lead to a worse
         | service for everyone.
        
           | kodah wrote:
           | Unethical, maybe. Though, how ethical should one be in war
           | when the enemy is a tyrant?
           | 
           | The signals to rebellion start slow: you pester and annoy the
           | enemy to let them know they have tread on the wrong turf. You
           | try to inform them, then you try to concede points for shared
           | ground. Once the enemy has decided that your advancements and
           | ground meeting are to their advantage, and continue to gain
           | ground is what we identify as skirmishes and battle starts.
           | You ambush, you destroy logistical routes, you make it
           | difficult for the enemy perceive that this ground is
           | worthwhile.
           | 
           | At what point do you fire the cannons? At what point does the
           | normally docile rest of society join you to arm your
           | rebellious battlements?
           | 
           | I think you are witnessing the populous arming their cannons.
           | You can object, but you can't object that the enemy is closer
           | than ever.
        
             | slg wrote:
             | This just seems hyperbolic. They aren't a tyrant because
             | you can just leave their platform. You want to use their
             | platform without any of the consequences that come with
             | that usage.
             | 
             | You are walking into someone else's house, making demands,
             | and breaking stuff when you don't get your way.
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | Every rebellion looks hyperbolic from the outside, I
               | would say.
               | 
               | Reddit is indexed by an outside party, not Reddit itself.
               | Twitter is the same way. The most infamous of Facebook's
               | data exfiltration was Cambridge Analytica, which again is
               | an outside indexer. The accurate comparison, imo, is "we
               | all came to this land to communicate together, but you
               | use the platforms features to stalk people."
               | 
               | Advertising is more of a concession of privacy, which I
               | can tolerate if it's iterated on.
               | 
               | The option you lay in front of people is "leave". So,
               | someone of my convictions must leave once a platform
               | becomes so popular that it attracts professional
               | stalkers? Why is that the only acceptable option to you?
        
               | slg wrote:
               | Honestly this explanation makes it sound worse to me.
               | Your objection doesn't appear to be with these social
               | media companies. It seems to be with the very nature of
               | public communication. You want the benefit of publicly
               | communication without facing any repercussions for what
               | you said in public. And in order to help ensure you don't
               | face repercussions, you are polluting the shared public
               | spaces for everyone else and forcing these social media
               | companies to clean up after you.
               | 
               | Every public platform can be externally monitored and
               | archived. If you don't accept that, don't participate in
               | public platforms.
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | Not really. I've participated in public communication
               | since I was a kid. IRC, public forums, etc...
               | 
               | Advertisers and platform monetization are definitely part
               | of the problem, don't get me wrong. I just signalled that
               | I'm willing to iterate on that problem. When my mother
               | gets a call on her cellphone by a recruiter _looking for
               | me_ when we share zero relationships online it signals a
               | pretty desperate issue in how data is being used,
               | correlated, and exploited. The public side of these APIs
               | is just an exacerbation of those issues, because they 're
               | the same APIs an advertiser uses.
               | 
               | You painting me as someone who is trying to avoid
               | repercussions is interesting. Do you normally assume the
               | worst about people when you debate them?
        
               | slg wrote:
               | >You painting me as someone who is trying to avoid
               | repercussions is interesting. Do you normally assume the
               | worst about people when you debate them?
               | 
               | I think you are assuming a specific connotation on
               | "repercussions". I'm not talking about "repercussions" in
               | the coded "cancel culture" way. I am saying that you want
               | the positives of speaking in public without the unwanted
               | negatives. That is the literal definition of avoiding
               | repercussions.
               | 
               | If your public speaking establishes you as some type of
               | expert, people are naturally going to start reaching out
               | to talk to you. That is the nature of public discourse.
               | What that recruiter did is wildly unethical, but it is a
               | natural repercussion of publicly showing traits of the
               | person the recruiter is looking to hire. There are
               | downsides to being a public citizen. You don't get a free
               | pass to act unethically in order to avoid those
               | downsides.
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | > I think you are assuming a specific connotation on
               | "repercussions"
               | 
               | Use more careful wording then. In my eyes, you're here to
               | deny that a problem exists (for average people, not
               | experts) and you're advocating for me to not participate
               | in communities which I was historically able to
               | participate in without having my data exfiltrated or
               | stored in perpetuity. I've argued in the past that limits
               | to public data could perceivably exist, I think this is
               | reasonable, but to a denialist nothing is reasonable.
               | 
               | The framing you propose is quite rosey, but then you
               | immediately walk it back with how bad it is, but that
               | it's a "natural" repercussion. So, while I want to do
               | something about it before it becomes a bigger problem
               | that can't be contained you're happy to sit back and say
               | there's nothing to see here.
               | 
               | But hey, feel free to keep commenting on my ethics
               | without questioning your own.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | I don't know what to tell you. I feel pretty comfortable
               | with my ethical stance here of "Don't abuse a public
               | resource or intentionally create more work for other
               | people purely for your own personal convenience."
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | I think I've made it pretty clear "personal convenience"
               | is not the issue at stake here. I guess you're just
               | arguing in bad faith at this point.
        
               | slg wrote:
               | As you said previously...
               | 
               | >Do you normally assume the worst about people when you
               | debate them?
               | 
               | I don't know what I said here that seemed to offended
               | you. If you point out something that truly crossed a
               | line, I can apologize. You weren't the one who my
               | original comment was directed towards and in your very
               | first comment you admitted yourself that this type of
               | behavior was potentially unethical. I don't think I have
               | said anything worse than that and I don't know what I did
               | that you consider bad faith. The one example you gave of
               | a negative result was a recruiter calling your mother.
               | Stopping that falls under the category of "personal
               | convenience". We all get unwanted calls from time to
               | time. It is annoying, but it takes a couple minutes out
               | of your day and you move on. No reason to take that as
               | justification for flooding public sites with "multi GB
               | files full of random data" which is where the
               | conversation started.
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | Yeah, that's not "personal convenience". I would say this
               | borders on safety. I don't think it's that difficult to
               | imagine how this same dataset in the hands of a bad actor
               | is to be abused.
               | 
               | In your case, my assumptions of you are based on how you
               | continually downplay concerns to "not happening" or
               | "that's no big deal". You also readily accused me of
               | avoiding repercussions, then walking back and walking
               | forward those claims in some kafka-esque dance.
               | 
               | "Arguing in bad faith" also doesn't mean you've offended
               | me. It's just a realization that you have some other
               | motivation at stake here. People don't just recategorize
               | a safety and privacy issue as "personal convenience"
               | while dancing around calling it a problem.
        
         | throwkeep wrote:
         | Are they actually overwriting history though? Or are they just
         | adding another record, and hiding the previous version(s)?
        
         | slow_donkey wrote:
         | Hm any competent ops team would have backups if they really
         | cared to find your original data
        
       | sitzkrieg wrote:
       | beware deleting your own messages on discord ("self botting") is
       | against tos and people have been banned for it, myself included
        
         | vallas wrote:
         | Can we blame Discord for this? Edit: Does Discord deletes all
         | user messages when it bans an account?
        
       | Nadya wrote:
       | I've been using a very messy compilation of too-frequently-
       | abandoned tools from Github for things like this and slowly
       | applying local patches to them if/when they break and if I can
       | even determine what the problem is. Primarily to scrub my Reddit
       | and Twitter histories every so often.
       | 
       | So this is absolutely something I'll be using.
       | 
       | One thing I noticed immediately is that "DeviantArt" is not
       | listed as "Coming Soon" on the web page but is not currently
       | available in the desktop Electron app.
       | 
       | E:
       | 
       | One feature I would like to see is a Whitelist for Subreddits. I
       | currently remove all of my posts except posts in a subreddit
       | where 99% of my posts are Help/Q&A posts that I want to be able
       | to benefit future people. However I want to delete all my other
       | posts, which means knowing which subreddits I've posted in which
       | is not always easy since I sometimes land on things from /r/All.
       | (eg: "Delete all posts except on /r/Granblue_En") For now I had
       | to manually add a list of 56~ subreddits one by one that I got
       | from my log.
       | 
       | E2: One of the team members (Dan) responded to me over Discord.
       | My requested feature was already on the ToDo list since they have
       | a similar use case.
        
       | thinkloop wrote:
       | How come HN doesn't have to follow delete laws allowing users to
       | delete their messages?
        
         | nenaan wrote:
         | GDPR doesnt apply in America.
        
       | ds wrote:
       | Hey HN- Im one of the team members at redact. Redact is a cross
       | platform electron app which allows you to delete content
       | programmatically from most of the big sites out there (we are
       | adding more every day). Meaning, you could say something like
       | "Delete all posts I made on instagram with less than 15 likes in
       | 2019" or (very soon) "Delete all my tweets that are political" We
       | have been working on this for a little over a year. As you can
       | imagine, working with some of these legacy services is less than
       | ideal. (looking at you skype)
       | 
       | When we launched, we were aware of tons of other free services
       | that let you delete content, but we found that most of them were
       | either unmaintained and broken, not feature rich enough or
       | complicated for grandmas to install. "Ok, so first- download Kali
       | linux to a thumb drive. Then reboot into it and install python
       | and clone this repo...."
       | 
       | Our goal with redact is to make privacy as accessible to the
       | general public as possible. There are tons of services that let
       | you delete 'public' data about you (for instance, deleting your
       | whitepages.com page) but we found very few which took care of
       | content YOU created across more than 1 service.
        
         | itake wrote:
         | Any ideas why your app is so big?
         | 
         | macOS Redact is 433MB. Firefox is 370MB. Is this an artifact of
         | electron?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jarek-foksa wrote:
           | This is the new normal for Electron-based apps on macOS. The
           | Electron framework itself is ~350 MB when targeting both
           | Intel- and M1-based Macs.
        
           | ds wrote:
           | Yeah, electron :)
        
             | FractalHQ wrote:
             | Check out Tauri it is much an smaller and faster than
             | electron.
        
         | beedrillzzzzz wrote:
         | Do services like Facebook Messenger or Twitter allow you to
         | totally delete/redact messages, or is it just hiding the data
         | from the user's view on one side?
        
         | slg wrote:
         | >Meaning, you could say something like... "Delete all my tweets
         | that are political"
         | 
         | Are you open to sharing how this will be done? Are you doing
         | analysis of the body of the posts, where they were posted, who
         | or what they are replying to, etc? I imagine this is more
         | difficult on some social media sites. Twitter for example is
         | highly time sensitive. A tweet in reaction to some political
         | news event might not have any political language in it and only
         | reveals itself to be political when viewed in the proper
         | context.
        
         | 3ygun wrote:
         | Dan congrats!
         | 
         | Q: Was a reason you choose a User installed application
         | (Electron or Mobile App) vs SaaS to avoid having to store
         | username/password for sites and the ToS issues that result from
         | that? Or am I off base with previous comments in another
         | Discord?
         | 
         | Meme Q: Were earlier versions of redact.dev so powerful they
         | redacted the trip to Japan? :(
         | 
         | Best wishes and #YeeAlwaysWins
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | norcon4 wrote:
       | Found this interesting from the FAQ:
       | 
       | > "Why don't you support anything made by Google or Apple?"
       | 
       | > At this time, we are reliant on both Google and Apple to be
       | listed in their respective app stores. As such, we have been
       | advised that in order to remain in good standing we should not
       | offer support for these services.
       | 
       | What a disturbing reality these developers are up against. Even
       | though this is a big limitation, the project is wonderful!
        
         | fnord77 wrote:
         | facebook / twitter will complain to apple and they'll get
         | booted.
        
       | that_guy_iain wrote:
       | I expected this to be a project with a few developers on it. But
       | it looks like a serious company.
       | 
       | What I don't understand is why an electron app? Why not a SaaS
       | app?
       | 
       | I see the plan to make money via premium features on the phone
       | apps but I am even more confused to why I would want to run this
       | on my phone.
        
         | amalantony06 wrote:
         | Electron app obv implies more privacy in a sense (assuming that
         | no data is sent to their server).
         | 
         | You wouldn't but "average users" would prefer to run it on
         | their phone. For example, this could turn into a social media
         | management tool for "influencers" and celebrities - managing
         | their social media profiles with advanced deletion conditions
         | etc.
        
       | david-cako wrote:
       | This is an awesome tool that addresses a real need for many
       | privacy conscious folks!
        
       | uoflcards22 wrote:
       | This is truly awesome. Been using hacky scripts for this purpose
       | for a while - seeing a more formal solution is very exciting.
       | Kudos. Also, would definitely pay for this, FWIW
        
       | fotta wrote:
       | How does this get around Twitter's limits on retrieving older
       | tweets? Last time I built a script to bulk delete tweets I had to
       | manually export my data to get all the tweet ids for older
       | tweets.
        
       | endiangroup wrote:
       | AD: I can't see any source code? Did you redact it already?
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-28 23:01 UTC)