[HN Gopher] Ghost Stations of the Paris Metro
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ghost Stations of the Paris Metro
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 222 points
       Date   : 2021-05-29 10:57 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.urbextour.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.urbextour.com)
        
       | major505 wrote:
       | So, this lights are maintained even if the stations are
       | abandoned?
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | I suppose most of these photos used a long exposure, and/or a
         | rushing-by subway for "lighting". There seem to be some small
         | lights for workers/emergency situations, but nothing compared
         | to the lighting of an operational subway station.
        
           | kweks wrote:
           | It depends on the system. Paris metro tunnels are constantly
           | lit. It's less than station lighting, but more than enough
           | that you don't need a lamp with you.
           | 
           | It's definitely an oddity, most systems are unlit (Barcelona
           | has entrances lit then nothing, Ukraine, Russia, etc all
           | unlit).
           | 
           | Interestingly, unlit tunnels bring the advantage of if you're
           | seen, the lights are turned on, giving you a clear warning
           | sign to leave.
           | 
           | In the Paris system, you need to actively count the delay
           | between trains to ensure traffic isn't cut. We had one or two
           | encounters where we realised that it had been 4 minutes
           | between trains when they we running on 2 minute intervals..
        
             | papertokyo wrote:
             | What's the scenario there? They lengthen the headway on the
             | whole line until they catch you or they actually cancel
             | some trains? Why? I'm curious what the operational response
             | is from their side.
        
               | kweks wrote:
               | Typically they will announce to the PCC (central control)
               | that they sighted people in the tunnels. The next train
               | that comes through the sector will roll at walking speed.
               | If you haven't cleared out by that time and get seen,
               | they stop all traffic on the line, and send in rail
               | police from each side of the tunnel to find you.
        
             | closeparen wrote:
             | Two minute intervals! My kingdom for a commute on two
             | minute intervals. The very busiest lines get down to
             | perhaps 6 trains an hour on peak, 3 normally.
        
               | sethhochberg wrote:
               | Most of the world's busiest systems have at least a line
               | or several which approaches 90 second intervals at peak
               | hours. Moscow, Paris, London, even NYC (and I would have
               | to assume many Asian systems I'm not as familiar with as
               | well). 30-40 trains an hour is the gold standard, but
               | obviously only makes sense if there is enough ridership.
        
               | closeparen wrote:
               | Oh, this is on a line that's at more than triple design
               | capacity. The limitation is signals.
        
       | tamaharbor wrote:
       | These are the some of the cleanest abandoned subway stations I
       | have ever seen. Except for the 'street art', where is the
       | deterioration?
        
         | kweks wrote:
         | This may be of interest:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Hall_station_(IRT_Lexin...
         | 
         | In the Paris system, the majority of the mentioned stations
         | still have traffic running through them. The architecture is
         | maintained.
        
         | dopidopHN wrote:
         | They are still part of the system. And to get there entail a
         | scary walk in the dark that most people won't take.
         | 
         | That's it.
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | Being part of the system, several of them are probably still
           | available for use as an emergency exit (terrorist attacks
           | etc).
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | The maps are great - where do they come from ?
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | From http://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-paris/
        
       | kweks wrote:
       | From 2008 to 2012 a friend and I spent at least 2 - 3 times per
       | week obsessively 'running track' in the Paris metro.
       | 
       | It's definitely one of the most interesting systems in the world,
       | with a lot of hidden secrets. Despite years of systematic
       | exploration, and having walked the length of the entire system,
       | we were still finding artefacts.
       | 
       | For the interested, in my opinion the most complete writeups of
       | the system was written by my exploring partner.
       | 
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20130513204844/http://www.sleepyc...
        
         | klohto wrote:
         | Good read, thanks for the link! What was the most weird thing
         | you encountered?
        
           | kweks wrote:
           | One of the weirdest was shooting photos when a track side
           | door opened, a man in a nice suit walked up to us, didn't say
           | a word, smiled and shook our hands, each in turn, in total
           | silence. He then revealed himself to be the chief engineer of
           | the line 1, was happy to let us hang out and watch the trains
           | with him, and said in parting.. oh, I really should get
           | around to fixing that ingress point of yours..
           | 
           | Or a worker we bumped into who said he knew we weren't
           | painters because we didn't throw rocks at him, and thanked us
           | kindly.
           | 
           | The most surprisingly was stumbling upon a 1930s train, the
           | Sprague Thompson in mint condition, hiding in a section of
           | metro that we'd overlooked for years...
        
             | alcover wrote:
             | > stumbling upon a 1930s train
             | 
             | Truly fantastic. Did you enter it ? I would die for such
             | moments if I was an urbexplorer.
        
               | kweks wrote:
               | Multiple times, it stayed 'unknown' and pristine for a
               | long time
               | 
               | http://ninjito.com/_2012-04-07
               | 
               | When we turned the corner and saw it, I guess we nearly
               | passed out, we'd been looking for it for years :)
        
               | qwertox wrote:
               | Thanks for the link. I can't believe that it hasn't been
               | touched for a long time, it's almost way to clean.
               | 
               | And the site itself, wow.
               | 
               | http://ninjito.com/2020-02-05-Baikonour
        
               | alcover wrote:
               | Damn... Please don't tell me it got graffited.
               | 
               | Thinking of the million souls, early morning workers and
               | late night lovers this venerable workhorse has carried is
               | vertiginous.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | LaputanMachine wrote:
         | I like how some of the photos show the same place years apart.
         | 
         | These two images [1][2] show the same junction near St Martin
         | station.
         | 
         | Note the patch in the ceiling in these two pictures: [3][4]
         | 
         | The pink graffito on the back wall in this [5] picture can
         | still be seen years later if you zoom into this [6] picture.
         | 
         | A red graffito can be seen on the back wall here [7] (very
         | small) and here [8].
         | 
         | [1]http://web.archive.org/web/20130513204844im_/http://sleepyci
         | ... [2]https://www.urbextour.com/wp-
         | content/uploads/2018/09/21.jpg [3]http://web.archive.org/web/20
         | 130513204844im_/http://sleepyci...
         | [4]https://www.urbextour.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/8-1.jpg
         | [5]http://web.archive.org/web/20130513204844im_/http://sleepyci
         | ... [6]https://www.urbextour.com/wp-
         | content/uploads/2018/09/58.jpg [7]http://web.archive.org/web/20
         | 130513204844im_/http://sleepyci...
         | [8]https://www.urbextour.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/59.jpg
        
           | kweks wrote:
           | Even looking back at those photos today takes me on a huge
           | nostalgia trip. The article very accurately outlines our
           | trepidation of first plunges into the system, and our
           | original photos shot on film, and finally progressing to a
           | more polished style as we got more experience.
           | 
           | There are very interesting stories in the graffiti,
           | representing generations of visits, and 'following' certain
           | people, noticing where they'd been and not been.
        
         | owenversteeg wrote:
         | Excellent writeup, thank you!
         | 
         | Does anyone know if the system is still as accessible as it was
         | in 2012? I know that at least in northern France and Belgium
         | this type of exploration has become a lot more difficult due to
         | more cameras and more police/security awareness.
        
         | qwertox wrote:
         | For those who don't want to read the entire article, here's one
         | part which you shouldn't skip: F3 the page for "getting caught
         | by security and police".
        
       | Zenst wrote:
       | I find it facinating that in a growing population that large
       | places like Paris have stations that became disused. But that
       | seems to be the case upon many large underground networks that
       | have been around long enough and in London the list is not short:
       | https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/culture-and-heritage/...
       | 
       | Though that does not include stations part built and then never
       | completed of which there are a fair few for London, unsure about
       | Paris but I would imagine be some instances of part built or
       | intended stations that never got finished. Indeed I had a look at
       | seems at least two got built and never saw use -
       | https://www.renfe-sncf.com/rw-en/blog/destinations/paris/vis...
        
         | rst wrote:
         | New York also has a few abandoned stations, most often (as in a
         | lot of these Parisian stations) because they were so close to
         | other stations that there wasn't much point in operating both
         | -- doubly so after platforms on the stations still in use were
         | lengthened to accommodate longer trains. (There are also a
         | bunch of former connections to elevated lines that no longer
         | exist.)
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_closed_New_York_City_S...
        
           | mtalantikite wrote:
           | I also read once that it made sense to build stations that
           | weren't yet required for the system because they were already
           | close by digging the tunnels for other stations and they were
           | doing some future capacity planning that ended up getting
           | abandoned. The station near the Broadway G stop comes to
           | mind, which you can access from the north side of the
           | southbound G platform not too far up the tunnel. A while back
           | some artists did an (illegal) show in it.
        
             | rst wrote:
             | There are a bunch of partially completed stations (or
             | expansion provisions for future stations) which were
             | intended for the "IND Second System" -- a massive set of
             | projects that got killed off by the Great Depression.
             | 
             | (The beginning of one of those lines actually got built and
             | put into service, in the form of a one-station spur line
             | branching off Hoyt-Schermerhorn in Brooklyn, and going to
             | Court Street, where the line now stops. It was originally
             | intended to continue into Manhattan and become the Second
             | Avenue Line. Instead, it was operated for a time as a
             | shuttle, then discontinued. Court St. Station is now the
             | main site of the Transit Museum, which may reopen one of
             | these days. There's now a rump Second Avenue Line recently
             | put into service on the Upper East Side -- three stops of
             | it -- but construction of the rest isn't fully funded, it's
             | not planned to reach lower Manhattan for a few more
             | decades, and there are no active plans to continue it into
             | Brooklyn.)
        
             | elygre wrote:
             | Somewhat unrelated, under the Bank of Norway head office in
             | Oslo, there is a piece of tunnel that was never used. There
             | were two alternative routes being considered for a tunnel
             | under Oslo, and when they built a new bank over one of the
             | routes, they built the tunnel just in case.
             | 
             | In the end, the other route was selected. The tunnel was
             | initially used as a firing range for the national bank
             | guards, and later transformed to a parking garage.
        
         | kweks wrote:
         | The Renfe stations are still there, but rather uninteresting -
         | empty concrete cut and cover affairs. The Barcelona metro does
         | have a few abandoned stations. They also have the mosos police,
         | which wage violent war against graffers, making 'innocent
         | exploration' a high stakes game.
        
         | johncoltrane wrote:
         | Retired Parisian graffiti writer, here.
         | 
         | The parent article does a good job at explaining the whys and
         | hows.
         | 
         | For the stations that where actually open at some point, it was
         | mainly a matter of optimization: new hubs being built,
         | profitability, etc. The end of WWII has been the turning point
         | for most them.
         | 
         | Porte des Lilas was a prototype station repurposed for shooting
         | movies in a controlled environment.
         | 
         | Haxo was part of a failed project to connect two lines. It was
         | never officially opened so we, locals, don't really consider it
         | as a station.
         | 
         | The buff between Place d'Italie and Corvisart has never been a
         | station. It's more of a curiosity than anything.
         | 
         | Not mentioned in the article are the former end-station of line
         | 5 at Gare du Nord, now a training ground for metro drivers,
         | Arsenal on line 5, Porte Maillot on line 1, and Molitor, which
         | was never even connected to the surface.
         | 
         | I am not sure how popular the ghost stations of the metro, the
         | prohibited sections of the catacombs, and the "petite ceinture"
         | are with today's teens but they made Paris a gigantic
         | interconnected playground back in the 80s/90s.
        
           | Zenst wrote:
           | Yes for London the WW2 period sure did change the landscape
           | in many ways and I recall being supprised that it wasn't
           | until 2015 that London's population had finally caught up
           | with level it had in 1939. That alone really did highlight
           | how some things can be impacting far wider than we
           | appreciate.
        
           | kweks wrote:
           | I was always curious: the Sprague/s were left virgin for so
           | many years. Was it because they hadn't been discovered by
           | writers, or because they were considered untouchable for
           | reasons of historical importance. Obviously the scene has all
           | types, and both scenarios seem as unlikely as each other..
           | can you elaborate ?
           | 
           | Edit: "Sprague" or Sprague Thompson is rolling stock dating
           | back to 1908. There are one or two hidden very well in the
           | system, with one still in mint, serviceable condition.
        
             | johncoltrane wrote:
             | There are still quite a few Sprague cars preserved and
             | maintained by various entities, some of them are even
             | inserted in the traffic for special occasions like "Les
             | journees du Patrimoine" during which the RATP ans other
             | organisations show off a lot of very interesting and
             | usually hidden stuff.
             | 
             | That particular train of Spragues, the one that is covered
             | with paint, has been stored in many places over the years,
             | without a clear intent as to its future, like the BOA
             | prototype. The first time I saw it was in the Vaugirard
             | yard, which wasn't exactly a walk-in, so that made it a
             | hard target compared to the regular trains. When they moved
             | it in the connexion between lines 7 and 10 it became a much
             | easier target and a go-to place for just about everyone.
             | 
             | I'm afraid the RATP doesn't care much about that specific
             | train.
             | 
             | As for types, yes, we have all of them. Very few of us care
             | about historical importance but it might actually be more
             | of an attractor than a detractor for those who do.
        
               | kweks wrote:
               | I was referring specifically to the Sprague that was used
               | in the Journee de la Patrimoine (which was sadly banned
               | post 2010 I believe). It was well hidden, but then got
               | trashed a few times with 'low effort' painters (throwing
               | of paint over it, or quick chrome throwups as opposed to
               | decent panels)
               | 
               | Couldn't understand if this specific one was "spared" for
               | so long because it was well hidden, or because most
               | painters considered it "too nice" to paint (or pointless,
               | as it was rarely in service..)
               | 
               | The other ones (Monceau, etc) were obviously well and
               | truly rinsed.
               | 
               | There's a few nice examples of preserved rolling stock in
               | the RATP's "secret warehouse", but they only kept the
               | head and trashed the wagons.
               | 
               | Vaugirard was definitely a nice yard, hard until we found
               | a nicely hidden trapdoor-in-a-wall behind a 03..
        
               | johncoltrane wrote:
               | That specific one was spared because it was well hidden,
               | as soon as it became an easier target it had to be
               | painted. Spragues, ghost stations, historical monuments,
               | natural landmarks, Russian space shuttles... nothing is
               | "too nice".
               | 
               | Vaugirard was more of a "monte-en-l'air" business for
               | some of us ;-).
        
               | kweks wrote:
               | Oh man, the piece on the Buran is simply horrible. We
               | managed to slip in just before COVID lockdown, somewhat
               | lucky to have seen it before it got rinsed..
               | 
               | And sure, les ateliers seemed to be affairs of bras-
               | honneur ..
        
           | muddiestwaters wrote:
           | Retired train writer from berlin here, I'd love to hear more
           | stories from you...
        
             | johncoltrane wrote:
             | Our stories are probably very similar ;-).
             | 
             | You know... scouting, trespassing, chasing something or
             | someone, being chased, the sounds, the smells, the "tick,
             | tick, tick" dogs make while stamping on floor of a metro
             | car, etc. There are specifics, of course, but the baseline
             | is the same everywhere I have been.
        
               | kweks wrote:
               | Every metro has its own smell, I assume from the brake
               | dust.
               | 
               | Likewise the quiet moments between action when you're
               | tucked into side tunnels, feeling the breeze and
               | listening to distant trains rumbling by..
        
               | hutzlibu wrote:
               | Why would you chase someone, as a train painter?
               | 
               | Turf fights?
        
             | kweks wrote:
             | Likewise from you.. our first jaunt in the Berlin metro led
             | us to a train laid up near the Opera junction with cops and
             | dogs waiting inside for us to paint, and were thoroughly
             | confused when we didn't..
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | > petite ceinture
           | 
           | As of last year, it was straight-forward to transition
           | between the official park and the rest of the line on the
           | north side of the park. Might need a shovel at the south
           | side, but then you're quickly on active RATP property, with
           | better access points across a few crossovers. Also a
           | formalized access point somewhere near Montreuil where some
           | old furniture was placed in just the right spot from street
           | level.
           | 
           | Good place for berries and figs at the right time.
        
           | dopidopHN wrote:
           | I remember exploring the petit ceinture, and from there the
           | catacomb. It was in the late 2000 in Paris.
           | 
           | The catacomb came as a surprise, I knew it was there. I was
           | not expecting to find a entrance to it randomly.
           | 
           | ( you might know the place, where the ceinture collide with a
           | easy catacombe entrance under a tunnel, in the XIIIeme )
           | 
           | I had some much fun finding old map. Mapping it myself ...
           | then realizing that a LOT of people where going there as
           | well.
           | 
           | As a ex member of the rave / free party movement it's was
           | really close in spirit.
        
             | johncoltrane wrote:
             | Yes, I think I know the place. I had a fun adventure there,
             | once, that taught me the importance of checking the
             | batteries _before_ crawling in.
             | 
             | There was another one in the XVeme that I used to visit bi-
             | monthly.
             | 
             | I wasn't much of a "cataphile" myself, but spending some
             | times down there was a very common occupation in the
             | 80s/90s. You could meet all kinds of people, down there.
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | The Wikipedia list says why each London Underground station was
         | closed.
         | 
         | Several are now only for suburban trains. Others were closed
         | when replacing lifts with escalators meant entrances had to be
         | moved, and were now too close to the next station.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_and_unopened_Lo...
         | 
         | See also: http://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/ ,
         | which marks the closed stations -- you can usually see how
         | close they are to other stations.
        
         | fmajid wrote:
         | Paris Metro stations are much closer together than London ones,
         | and in some cases it makes no sense to keep open a low-traffic
         | station that's just 100m from another, due to the cost of
         | staffing them and the delay of a stop there to the entire line.
        
           | HelloNurse wrote:
           | I remember walking between two stops of the same line within
           | Chatelet-Les Halles (presumably current line 4), but maybe
           | such a conglomerate is unusual even for Paris.
        
             | johncoltrane wrote:
             | The average distance is somewhere in the 500m-700m range so
             | taking the metro might not be necessary if your destination
             | is one or two stops away.
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | This is me pressing page down on the whole article so it loads
       | the images before I try to read the article.
        
       | asicsp wrote:
       | Related [0]: "Ghost subway station in Paris where films come to
       | life"
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27287938
        
       | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
       | You know what? I'm sometimes wondering why I can't see any
       | picture of something I've experienced while I traveled by train
       | from Bonn, Germany to Madrid, Spain to visit my best buddy, who
       | moved away to there with his parents. For my summer holidays,
       | about 1980 or so. Alone. For two days on the trains! Yay!
       | 
       | What I will never forget was while I had to take the Metro in
       | Paris to switch from one terminal station to another, the Metro
       | rode trough some subterran depot/switching yard, which was a
       | large rectangular hall, at least several 100 meters long, almost
       | 100 wide, and 10s of meters high. Dark. Except for the signals,
       | warning-lights, whatever in orange, white, yellow, red, green,
       | blue lining all tracks and the ramps going up and down into and
       | out of it. I'll never forget that, because it was so unexpected.
       | Almost like the glide-path indicators during night approaching
       | large airports, as seen from the cockpit. But below the ground.
       | And not old and grimy at all. Modern, light concrete. Really very
       | 'spacy'.
       | 
       | Maybe because it would be unwise to go there, because not
       | abandoned? Anyways, at the times I rode through there it was
       | empty, no other trains at all. Just the blank tracks and switches
       | reflecting all those colored lights and signals.
       | 
       | I really wonder what and where exactly that was.
        
         | oliv__ wrote:
         | Maybe near Nation?
        
           | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
           | I can't tell anymore. I didn't even take the Metro initially
           | because according to the city maps/plans I had, I thought I
           | would just walk. Then I got lost and tired with two suitcases
           | after walking through some busisness district with tall high-
           | rises and colored glass facades(blue, green, bronze/golden,
           | darkgray) and given up. I wanted to see the Eiffel-Tower, but
           | didn't. That made me angry and feel stupid at the times :-)
           | 
           | However, I needed to catch my train from the other terminus,
           | so I capitulated and took the metro from some other large
           | station which I can't remember anymore. What I do remember
           | was desperation with the ticket machine there with
           | instructions I couldn't really read at the time. Been lucky
           | because there were some tourists there who spoke german, and
           | they helped me with the thing. (Bling! Multipass!)
           | 
           | Arrived at Gare du Nord, had to go to some other 'Gare' which
           | I also can't remember anymore. But at that time the trains to
           | Spain over Hendaye/Irun departed from there. Which meanwhile
           | changed, I guess.
        
       | leoc wrote:
       | If you grub around on YouTube you can find plenty of coverage of
       | the London Underground's ghost stations.
        
         | z303 wrote:
         | and a bit more background
         | 
         | https://www.metafilter.com/135298/Ghost-Stations-of-the-Tube
        
       | 2ion wrote:
       | Always disgusting to see every kind of major building in
       | (Western?) cities smeared by graffiti etc, be it in use (and
       | under constant cleaning) or disused (ghost stations...). There's
       | zero appreciation of the building itself, the expenses for its
       | construction/upkeep or the possibility of putting it into use
       | again, preserving the structure and materials in the best way
       | possible. It's what I always notice first about this type of
       | documentation, it's quite disappointing.
        
         | anticristi wrote:
         | Alternatively, you can call it "Street Art" and promote it:
         | https://www.swedishnomad.com/malmo-street-art/
         | 
         | Personally, I feel it's odd to combat graffiti by making it
         | legal, but the result looks good to me.
        
       | erdewit wrote:
       | Some photos look exactly like Battlefield - Operation Metro.
        
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       (page generated 2021-05-29 23:00 UTC)