[HN Gopher] Trials begin on lozenge that rebuilds tooth enamel
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Trials begin on lozenge that rebuilds tooth enamel
Author : beefman
Score : 952 points
Date : 2021-05-29 22:15 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (dental.washington.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (dental.washington.edu)
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| > The lozenge produces new enamel that is whiter than what tooth-
| whitening strips or gels produce.
|
| I wonder how white?
|
| I'm a bit nervous about having those over-whitened glow-in-the-
| dark teeth, that you sometimes see. Memories of that _Friends_
| episode, too.
| [deleted]
| bamboozled wrote:
| Who are you talking to?
| redisman wrote:
| My coffee habit will make short work of any overly white teeth.
| gabereiser wrote:
| Haha, I was just going to say this. My 4 cup habit a day has
| destroyed any chance of having white teeth. They aren't bad,
| but they aren't white.
| jcims wrote:
| I used to drink that much coffee. I got an espresso machine
| and started making americanos instead now I'm good with one
| cup a day. I don't know what it is, clearly the caffeine is
| either higher or more bioavailabile or something, but it
| just sates my appetite for coffee.
|
| (Actually i started making cappucinos first and stopped
| when i started putting on weight from them lol)
| jrockway wrote:
| I don't think you're using units that could allow anyone
| to detect whether it's caffeine quantity or
| bioavailability that's at play. It depends on how you
| dose your espresso and drip coffee. I don't drink
| espresso but I think people are dosing something like 20
| grams per shot, whereas for pourover they're dosing 18
| grams of water per gram of coffee. For a standard "coffee
| cup" (which is 5 ounces of water that results in 4 ounces
| of coffee = 148 g of brew water), you're using 8g of
| coffee. Where I'm going with this is if your portafilter
| takes 40g of coffee for a double shot espresso, that is
| more coffee than 32g of coffee you'd use to brew 4
| "cups", so you're just drinking more coffee. But,
| standard cups are a dumb unit (my coffee mug holds 400mL
| of water), so it's possible you aren't using that, and
| the espresso has a better caffeinating effect for the
| same amount of caffeine. We can't know because the words
| and units are conflated in so many ways (there's a cup,
| which is a drinking vessel, there's the cooking cup which
| is like 230mL, and there's the coffee cup which is 148mL
| of water in to get 118mL of coffee out).
|
| I'm not a stickler for metric vs. imperial (I use both),
| but "cup" is a terrible terrible unit that needs to die.
| Use grams for anything coffee-related.
| OJFord wrote:
| > "cup" is a terrible terrible unit that needs to die
|
| Yes. Or more to the point, all of them are; not least
| _because_ of the existence of all the others.
|
| I know it's rarely going to actually matter that much
| even when I try to follow a recipe (which to the letter
| and quantity at least, I generally don't) whether '1 cup'
| is US legal, Imperial (UK but not common), metric,
| Canadian, US customary, or any of the other country
| variations, but it's still infuriating!
|
| I resisted owning any at all for a long time, but
| eventually gave in thinking it would be a handy way of
| having volumetric 1:1 ratios if nothing else (e.g. as
| much tomato as onion) and double as 'a cup' for following
| American recipes. But which 'cup' did I get? (Bought in
| the UK.) Nuts. I then realised I already had cup marks on
| a glass measure (that I'd only used ex ante for
| millilitres, like a sane person) - sure enough, different
| 'cup'.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| If you switched from drip, the caffeine is actually
| lower! My guess is you're just more satisfied with the
| coffee you're enjoying.
| jcims wrote:
| Definitely enjoy it more. Brewed coffee started tasting
| like stewed coffee or something, the americanos just have
| a 'cleaner' hit...i don't know. The weird thing is I find
| pourover to be more like espresso than brewed in that
| way, so it's probably just all in my head lol.
|
| Anyway, point is I only drink one cup a day now and have
| become a closet coffee snob.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Pourover is more like espresso too. Almost the same
| mechanism, but espresso also uses pressure. And even
| though snobs will disagree, french press will be closer
| in flavor but "muddier". Drip is pretty much the worst
| because it starts reheating your already perfectly good
| coffee before it's even done.
|
| Welcome to the snobbery! I went from "I refuse to order a
| coffee with more than two words" to super opinionated and
| picky, and now my rules are just don't be insufferable
| and accept when my preferences aren't reasonably
| available.
| sizzle wrote:
| I use an Aeropress every morning and it does the job, can
| tell the difference between the aeropress and store
| bought drinks.
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| This is all almost totally incorrect.
|
| French press "muddiness" is not invariant but rather a
| function of filter size and type. It's the equivalent of
| steak doneness, use the appropriate equipment for the
| result you want.
|
| Espresso is fundamentally different than pour-over. Pour-
| over is only using atmospheric pressure and espresso is
| about only not using atmospheric pressure. Pour-over is
| closer to drip than espresso.
|
| Drip coffee is actually just pour-over coffee made with a
| machine, and using a warming burner is not required.
|
| How good your coffee is depends not at all on the method
| used, and anyone telling you it does is just encoding
| their preference. Goodness of coffee is a combination of
| acidity, sweetness, bitterness, ratio of water to non-
| water compounds, time spent, and enjoyment of the
| experimentation. This combination is achieved by varying
| grind size, water temperature, bean roast, contact time,
| and experimenter time.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| > French press "muddiness" is not invariant but rather a
| function of filter size and type. It's the equivalent of
| steak doneness, use the appropriate equipment for the
| result you want.
|
| I don't think this contradicts anything I said.
|
| > Espresso is fundamentally different than pour-over.
| Pour-over is only using atmospheric pressure and espresso
| is about only not using atmospheric pressure.
|
| To clarify, I meant that the distinction is that the
| water flows through the coffee in drip/pour over by
| gravity (as you said, atmospheric pressure) but with
| espresso it flows through with applied pressure.
|
| > Pour-over is closer to drip than espresso.
|
| > Drip coffee is actually just pour-over coffee made with
| a machine, and using a warming burner is not required.
|
| This is pretty much what I was saying, with the
| distinction being that most people making drip do have a
| burner and that's what makes their coffee taste worse.
|
| > How good your coffee is depends not at all on the
| method used, and anyone telling you it does is just
| encoding their preference.
|
| This is my first major point of disagreement besides how
| you chose to interpret things. For most people, the
| method their coffee is made makes a difference because
| people have shit to do, even baristas making it for them.
| A half assed French press will taste dramatically
| different than a half assed Mr Coffee will taste
| dramatically different than a push button espresso
| machine.
|
| > Goodness of coffee is a combination of acidity,
| sweetness, bitterness, ratio of water to non-water
| compounds, time spent, and enjoyment of the
| experimentation. This combination is achieved by varying
| grind size, water temperature, bean roast, contact time,
| and experimenter time.
|
| And even then, it's a matter of preference, and might
| vary on occasion. And even then, you might encounter
| someone telling you your particular taste is wrong even
| if it delights you. Such as when I had the displeasure of
| ordering my absolute favorite latte I've ever had--I
| ordered a delicious natural process, the barista insisted
| I change my order twice and complained the whole time he
| was making it because the milk would ruin it, but I loved
| it.
|
| I'm not trying to be a jerk, but there's a reason people
| find coffee snobs insufferable.
| sizzle wrote:
| Thoughts on aeropress vs espresso machine quality?
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Oh also, I've had people insist I'm wrong to prefer
| homogenized milk, or whole milk over cream, or milk at
| all, depending on the particular varietal, origin, roast,
| grind, temperature.
| OJFord wrote:
| I would argue the opposite, that non-homogenised milk
| makes no sense in this application - it's a toss up
| whether you'd get skimmed milk, cream (of an
| unpredictable fat %), or where in between.
|
| (It has it's uses though, it's not that common in the UK,
| but I find it vastly better for making paneer for example
| - homogenised milk splits to a billion tiny wispy solids
| that don't set together well, leaving a crumbly texture;
| non-homogenised gives a much better mix and far bigger
| bits that hold together well.)
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| Without knowing how the drip/espresso was made (and many
| other details) there's no way you can know this. Coffee
| is complicated.
| cronix wrote:
| True, the darker the roast (ie roasted longer), generally
| the less caffeine it has in it. Espresso has some of the
| least since it is one of the darkest roasts.
| rolleiflex wrote:
| That is an urban myth unfortunately, darker coffee does
| not have less caffeine because caffeine is heat stable at
| typical roasting temperatures. (20 to 240C). Here's a
| more thorough explanation of it:
| https://www.kickinghorsecoffee.com/caffeine-myths-dark-
| vs-li...
|
| The effect probably came to be known because darker
| roaster coffee is less dense. So if you are measuring
| your coffee by volume (i.e. eyeballing it) and not mass,
| for the same volume the darker the coffee the less
| caffeine it has. But per gram of coffee, it's pretty much
| the same.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Yeah it's not the roast, it's the brewing/extraction
| method. Drip/pour over extract more caffeine than
| espresso, presumably from longer exposure to more surface
| area.
| OJFord wrote:
| Longer exposure but _less_ surface area (coarser grind).
| OJFord wrote:
| They aren't 'supposed' to be white; pure white teeth are
| bleached teeth, it's not natural.
|
| (I suppose truly natural is also unhealthy, but my point is
| perfectly healthy teeth can be - and _are_ , without other
| non-health-improving intervention - less than pure white.)
| gabereiser wrote:
| Yup. Little more egg shell a little less "primer white".
| fighterpilot wrote:
| Almost all actors have bleached teeth. I think this
| creates a false sense of what teeth are supposed to look
| like.
| sizzle wrote:
| I have an A1 shade teeth, keeping them any whiter is hard work.
| endisneigh wrote:
| Assuming this works, isn't this pretty much game over for
| dentists? I'm aware that dentists do more than fillings, but it
| seems like there would be a serious contraction, even if this
| costed something like $1000 a tooth after insurance.
|
| That being said, even if this worked, it's not like it's instant,
| so you still have to be careful with your teeth. I wonder how
| this differs from novamin, which supposedly does the same thing
| and you can already purchase now.
| johnkpaul wrote:
| Hah I felt this same way when I discovered you can change your
| diet to basically completely remove all dental problems. I
| doubt society can possible change quickly enough for us to see
| the downfall of the profession.
| killermouse0 wrote:
| Would you care to elaborate on those diet changes?
| tom_mellior wrote:
| "Diet = dental health" is bullshit. My partner was raised
| sugar-free and has horrible teeth with many cavities. So
| does their entire family. I was raised on a diet which
| included many forms of sweets, and I have never had a
| cavity. Same for my entire family. Genetics or other
| biological predisposition seems to be a major factor. Diet
| might help a _bit_ , but don't expect any magical effects.
| wyager wrote:
| Eliminate things bacteria can efficiently metabolize,
| consume things that humans can efficiently metabolize.
| Namely, eliminate saccharides (sugar, plant starches, etc.)
| and get your calories from fat instead. Improved dentition
| is only one of many benefits.
| joshuahughes wrote:
| Presumably no sugar being the primary factor. No carbs too?
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| sugar doesn't cause cavities, acids do. some bacteria which
| is not uniformly present in people eats carbs and deposits
| acids. this is covered in great detail ina good book, "kiss
| your dentist goodbye" that i just read. ive seen
| improvements in my awful teeth after giving the free
| regimen a try
| nemo44x wrote:
| Are there any Ph tablets that are effective at
| neutralizing the acid that isn't toothpaste?
|
| I've only recently learned you aren't supposed to rinse
| your mouth after brushing!
| evan_ wrote:
| You could just eat a spoonful of baking soda.
| jcrben wrote:
| I put baking soda in my drinking water, as mentioned at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27329115 - typically
| 1 teaspoon per liter
| chihuahua wrote:
| Doesn't the stomach acid instantly neutralize that?
| hackily wrote:
| I sure hope your stomach acid isn't finding it's way into
| your mouth! The point is to raise the pH in the mouth so
| your teeth, since acidity causes calcium to leach out of
| your teeth
| markdown wrote:
| > I've only recently learned you aren't supposed to rinse
| your mouth after brushing!
|
| Wait, what? Where did you learn that?
| nemo44x wrote:
| Yeah it's crazy, right? I couldn't imagine walking around
| with toothpaste residue but it might also explain the
| dental work I've required.
|
| Google it and you'll see! I asked my wife about and she
| concurred that she doesn't rinse but does get her
| toothbrush wet while brushing.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| it washes off the fluoride before being absorbed! haha
| also learned from that book
| johnkpaul wrote:
| Yeah, extreme no sugar and no carb, almost pure carnivore.
| Haven't had a bit of tooth decay since.
| Applejinx wrote:
| Also, presumably, drink water. That can't hurt.
| kaybe wrote:
| I have a friend with extreme food restrictions, they can
| mostly only eat animal products (plus white rice and very
| few other things). They also cannot brush their teeth
| regularly due to disability - yet their teeth look
| fantastic!
| johnkpaul wrote:
| Yup this is me
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I remember in Sub-Saharan Africa, they all chewed on this
| stem (can't remember what it was), and everyone I knew
| had _incredible_ teeth. Their diet was probably also
| fairly simple. I wasn 't really a fan of the local
| cuisine.
|
| When I lived in Morocco, however, it was the opposite.
|
| Moroccan food is some of the best in the world, but they
| have sugar in _everything_. Their mint tea is something
| that should come with an insulin injector. They buy these
| giant bricks of sugar, wrapped in blue paper, and just
| drop them in the pot.
|
| When many Moroccans smile, it looks like a brown picket
| fence.
|
| Did I mention that Moroccan food is _awesome_?
| rizwank wrote:
| The stick is likely Neem; my father did the same in
| Pakistan.
| sebmellen wrote:
| Xylitol rinses are great too. Xylitol seems to function as
| a sort of "probiotic" for the mouth.
| donkarma wrote:
| Also functions as a mild laxative..
| sithadmin wrote:
| It's sort of the opposite of a probiotic. In many
| organisms, including many non-human mammals, it short-
| circuits normal metabolic processes. Xylitol-sweetened
| products will easily sicken, and frequently kill cats and
| dogs, for instance.
| user_50123890 wrote:
| You're not supposed to eat the xylitol, just get it onto
| your teeth. So use xylitol toothpaste.
| rapjr9 wrote:
| There are Xylitol sprays also, advertised for
| moisturizing a dry mouth. Spray, swish, and spit it out
| and little will reach your intestinal microbiome. Best
| done right before a time when you won't be eating or
| drinking so the residue has some time to act on the
| bacteria on the teeth (e.g., right before a shower or
| before bed).
| sebmellen wrote:
| Yes, you're right, it's more of an antibiotic, but it
| seems to have a balancing effect on the oral microbiome.
|
| The research is still nascent and inconclusive, though.
| Here's an interesting study:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17263856/.
|
| > _Conclusions: The results suggest that chewing gum with
| xylitol or sorbitol /maltitol can reduce the amount of
| dental plaque and acid production in saliva in
| schoolchildren, but only the xylitol-containing gum may
| also interfere with the microbial composition._
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| When I was two years old -- apparently, I only heard it
| from the obvious source -- my mother went to a doctor and
| asked when she could start giving me candy. I'm dating
| myself but this was before 1990. Anyways, he said, "Never!
| Never give him candy. He'll develop a sweet tooth and it's
| game over for his teeth!".
|
| Again paraphrasing and dramatizing, but you get the idea.
|
| So my mom never gave me anything with sugar. To this day I
| don't eat any sweets and I have no cavities or tooth
| problems. I eat ice cream once a year, and mostly because
| people seem to like shaming me for not liking it. I always
| just have a couple of bites.
|
| Anyways my teeth are in great shape.
| xtracto wrote:
| You got more than 0 cavity problems. There was an article
| not long ago about how sugar modifies kids mucrobiota
| permanently in children https://www.news-
| medical.net/amp/news/20210203/Childhood-die...
|
| I have always had a sweet tooth. And while fortunately I
| dont have diabetes or similar. I've developed IBS and
| other gut ailments.
| megablast wrote:
| > To this day I don't eat any sweets and I have no
| cavities or tooth problems.
|
| Me neither. I ate candy and chocolate when I was a kid. I
| still do now 50 years later. Never had a problem with my
| teeth.
| Blammar wrote:
| This is from memory, so could be wrong.
|
| The goal is to starve the streptococcus mutans bacteria in
| your mouth. Since that lives off sugar and starch, you both
| (a) rinse your mouth with a bactericidal (b) brush teeth,
| tongue, and gums after ingesting any sugar or starch.
|
| The downside is excessive bactericidal use or brushing can
| damage your mouth tissues and teeth.
|
| Another approach I had heard about but have no further info
| was to be vaccinated against S. mutans, so presumably your
| saliva would attack it somehow. I don't understand the
| mechanism here.
|
| In the meantime, I use a prescription dose of fluoride
| toothpaste daily to harden the hydroxyapatite in my mouth.
| johnkpaul wrote:
| :-) my approach is just to not eat any sugar or starch but
| definitely agree with mechanism.
| wyager wrote:
| You can also just quit eating saccharides. Incidentally (or
| perhaps not), this has a lot of positive effects besides
| improving dental health. It's a first line treatment for
| many metabolic disorders like diabetes and even many cases
| of epilepsy. It resolves many digestive issues, as it
| reduces or eliminates most things humans can't easily
| metabolize (plant fiber, large sugar molecules, etc.). It
| helps with weight management because most human groups have
| not yet evolved an appropriately tuned satiety response to
| saccharides.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| Unfortunately, no. These only deposit a couple micrometers of
| enamel per day if used twice daily. They could potentially help
| as a form of preventative maintenance, but reversing
| significant dental cavities seems unlikely.
| endisneigh wrote:
| That seems like a lot though. Let's say it's just 1
| micrometer per day. A tooth is about 10mm (10,000
| micrometers). So over a period of about 28 years all of your
| teeth's enamel can be completely restored?
|
| Given that most people don't lose all of the enamel of any of
| their teeth it seems like there wouldn't be any point of
| going to a dentist. By the time you're getting the age where
| you'd even think about dentures, this treatment would
| completely reverse all tooth decay no?
| kaybe wrote:
| I feel problems with gums and other areas don't get
| stressed enough in childhood. There are plenty of other
| problems that are not enamel-related, and I'd guess you can
| easily still have trouble with enamel even with this
| treatment.
| saurik wrote:
| Tooth decay isn't a generic slow wearing down of all of
| your enamel but instead a concentrated attack on a small
| location of enamel from food for example being consistently
| stuck in a small fissure. A big thing you use dentists for
| is managing plaque that makes these issues worse, and
| probably also will help block the effects of these
| lozenges. Polishing your teeth actually _removes_ small
| quantities of enamel with the goal of making the teeth a
| bit smoother so there are less places for things to get
| stuck. Dentists also are dealing with issues where your
| teeth get cracked or otherwise damaged from grinding or
| hard foods. I can 't imagine just indiscriminately throwing
| layers of enamel at the problem is going to leave you in a
| solve where "there wouldn't be any point of going to a
| dentist".
| hanniabu wrote:
| If it's depositing a layer, that will lessen the extent
| of fissures and round them out. That's a great thing to
| be convinced with polishing. This adds to the valleys and
| polishing removes from the peaks, making an overall much
| flatter surface.
|
| Where I think this would really shine is with receding
| gums. It'll be able to slowly add protecting to a part of
| the teeth that has absolutely no protection. That will
| help "clog" the pores and reduce sensitivity as well as
| likeliness of a cavity.
| H1Supreme wrote:
| Not really. Plaque removal has to be the #1 thing done at a
| dentist's office. I've had one cavity filled in the last 15
| years, and the rest of the visits have been cleanings (ie.
| plaque removal).
|
| Plus, it really doesn't matter how well you brush and floss.
| There's always something for the hygienist to remove. Which, I
| can only assume prevents this lozenge from actually doing
| anything.
| rocky1138 wrote:
| Perhaps in the future there will be a layer added to this
| pill that first dissolves the plaque.
| webmaven wrote:
| _> Perhaps in the future there will be a layer added to
| this pill that first dissolves the plaque._
|
| I suspect that without a plaque removal step, these
| lozenges could contribute to plaque mineralization into
| dental calculus.
| klyrs wrote:
| That itself could be a standalone product -- I'd expect
| lots of people would prefer sucking a lozenge over daily
| toothbrushing
| elliekelly wrote:
| It's not a lozenge, but LivFresh dental gel (used like
| toothpaste) more or less dissolves plaque. It's a bit
| pricey, but well worth it. Especially if you hate having
| the dentist lecture you every appointment.
| hanniabu wrote:
| Is it for maintenance or can it remove 6 months worth of
| plaque at once (like would be the case with the dentist)?
| complexworld wrote:
| This study of Novamin concludes:
|
| > Review shows that Novamin has significantly less clinical
| evidence to prove its effectiveness as a remineralization agent
| in treating both carious and non-carious lesion. Hence, better
| designed clinical trials should be carried out in the future
| before definitive recommendations can be made.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/
| windexh8er wrote:
| Mostly no. Keep in mind people are not born with perfect teeth
| by default. My SO is a DDS and has been practicing for about 15
| years now. The bulk of her workday is definitely not fillings.
| Remember people break teeth, grind teeth, teeth die (trauma,
| health, etc), people want cosmetic work and the list goes on
| and on. She loves this type of thing to let people help
| themselves - but it often doesn't work. There's product on the
| market already that helps reverse caries before they need to be
| addressed - and people are lazy. They don't use it, don't
| follow through, and then come in to have the work done in the
| end.
|
| So while this will be a great thing for a lot of people it will
| likely be another tool in a dental professional's belt more
| than anything.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| What is this product you mentioned that reverses the start of
| cavities? Any google of it is filled with cheap SEO for me.
| windexh8er wrote:
| The one I remember is called MI Paste [0]. From what I
| understand it can help remineralize and strengthen teeth.
| Basically vitamins for your teeth.
|
| [0] http://www.mi-paste.com/about.php
| abecedarius wrote:
| I know nothing about this product, but
| https://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/12/dr-
| mellanbys-... makes it plausible that something like it
| could work; though personally I'd prefer the diet from
| the referenced paper unless the product has a better
| paper behind it.
| jcomis wrote:
| "Prevident 5000 Plus" supposedly works better than MI
| Paste. I've used both and prefer it. Plus MI paste has
| dairy ingredients. I've been using generic prevident 1x
| per day and it's crazy how much it helps.
| 29083011397778 wrote:
| I'd assume fluoride. On a recent trip to the dentist, I was
| told I'd had the start of a cavity that had re-crystalized
| (I believe that was the term). The American Dental
| Association [0] and an arm of the NIH [1] appear to back
| this up, as well:
|
| > Fluoride is a mineral that can prevent tooth decay from
| progressing. It can even reverse, or stop, early tooth
| decay.
|
| [0] https://www.mouthhealthy.org/en/fluoride-superhero
|
| [1] https://www.nidcr.nih.gov/health-info/tooth-decay/more-
| info/...
| kart23 wrote:
| prescription toothpaste.
|
| Most common is prevident 5000
| jb775 wrote:
| > _The idea for the lozenge design originated with Deniz Yucesoy,
| a graduate student in the UW's Genetically Engineered Materials
| Science and Engineering Center who received a $100,000 Amazon
| Catalyst grant_
|
| This grad-student/researcher just handed over a multi-million
| dollar business to Amazon in exchange for $100k towards the
| research. Why on Earth would anyone sign over 100% ownership of
| their idea, just to be able to test their idea? I guess he
| thought it would look good on his resume as begs a company for a
| job after graduation?
|
| Who owns the IP if I join Amazon Catalyst?[1]
|
| Amazon Catalyst is a place to see your idea come to fruition
| without the risk of starting a company on your own. As such, the
| IP that is developed in Amazon Catalyst is property of Amazon.[1]
|
| [1] https://catalyst.amazon.com/
| foolfoolz wrote:
| what if there's more to an idea than how much money you
| personally can extract from it?
| genericone wrote:
| Theres more to an idea than how much a billionaire can trick
| you to part with it too though.
| jb775 wrote:
| Yeah, how altruistic of him to hand the idea over to a group
| of bloodsucking capitalists that'll use it to extract as much
| profit from the world as possible.
| genericone wrote:
| That doesnt appear to be a grant at all then! Are government or
| nonprofit grants ever attached to IP ownership terms?
| cossatot wrote:
| Usually the IP goes to the employer (i.e. the university)
| rather than the individual researcher.
| gnicholas wrote:
| The website for Catalyst at UW appears to have different IP
| terms:
|
| > _For the avoidance of doubt as between Sponsor and
| Participants /Teams, all Submissions created by
| Participants/Teams will remain the property of the
| Participant/Team except to the extent a Participant/Team
| incorporated elements in their Submission owned by Sponsor, but
| the Competition Entities will have the rights to use the
| Submissions described herein. By submitting a Submission in
| this Competition, each Participant/Team warrants and represents
| that he or she owns, or otherwise has the right to use, all of
| the intellectual and industrial property rights in and to the
| Submission. Further, each Participant/Team hereby grants the
| Competition Entities a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide,
| royalty-free, and non-exclusive license to use, review, assess,
| test and otherwise analyze your Submission in connection with
| this Competition._
|
| TLDR: It's your IP, but we can use it in connection with this
| Competition.
|
| https://catalyst.amazon.com/archive/programs/uw/#rules
| totalZero wrote:
| If you're an academic researcher, you probably don't care as
| much about the ownership of IP when compared to a potential to
| see your work get used and to build a reputation as a competent
| person in your field.
|
| Also, the work wouldn't necessarily exist without the funding.
| Fomite wrote:
| This is, indeed, often the point of commercial partnerships
| for universities - getting what you want to see out into the
| world.
|
| I don't remember the licensing terms for Catalyst
| specifically, but they are _fairly_ aggressive, as far as
| these things go, to my recollection.
| sabellito wrote:
| Well, we are talking about a possibly multi-million dollar
| product here. If Amazon were a bit less predatory perhaps
| keep 99% of the IP?
| edmundsauto wrote:
| What is a reasonable survivorship bias rate? If Amazon
| invested at a point when this was <1% likelihood of making
| it to market In a commercially successful venture, then
| their initial investment would work out to be charity for
| society.
| sebmellen wrote:
| Amazon is a modern day Dutch East India Company. There's no
| reason for them not to be predatory, given that they wield
| so much power.
| fakedang wrote:
| Or British East India Company. Not like either wasn't
| predatory back in its heyday.
| sabellito wrote:
| I completely agree. Hopefully them doing this sparks the
| same initiative for other companies. Perhaps with some
| competition for talent the terms would be better.
| Giorgi wrote:
| There is no way this is not copied by Indian pharmacies in a
| whim, IP is nothing these days.
| swiley wrote:
| You can't pay rent with the hope of success.
| nickpp wrote:
| > multi-million dollar business
|
| That is not a business, just an idea. The value of ideas
| (unproven, unimplemented) is ZERO. The fact that someone was
| willing to pay $100k for it is absolutely amazing and a huge
| service to the society.
| jb775 wrote:
| This is absolutely wrong. Especially when the formulation of
| the idea depends on extremely advanced knowledge of the
| topic.
| beefman wrote:
| This is now my highest-scoring post (since my first post in
| 2011), surpassing this one from 2017
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14446261
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| Through the decades, many have claimed they solved the tooth
| decay problem. Nobody ever shipped a product, let alone a working
| one. This is the next one in the series so long I feel extremely
| skeptical. Even if it actually works it will probably cost some
| crazy money (part of which will hopefully go to a fund to support
| millions of jobless dentists /s). Nevertheless I'm glad this
| popped up here anyway.
| totalZero wrote:
| This isn't so much a prevention of tooth decay as it is a
| contribution to the hydroxyapatite crystal structure in a non-
| regenerable part of your tooth.
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| Could you please explain? What is a non-regenerable part of a
| tooth and what is a regenerable part of it? Why repairing its
| crystal structure is not a prevention of its decay?
| NoblePublius wrote:
| Dentists will hate this and, if it works, conspire to destroy it.
| Dentists operate a mostly cash business dependent on disease
| care. The less you care for your teeth, the more money they make.
| The more procedures they perform, the more money they make. Good
| luck.
| echelon wrote:
| I'm anxious that this could cause cancer or long term disease
| states as it works its way through your digestion system.
|
| This is a wildly novel approach being applied orally.
|
| I'd love for this to work, but they're relying on the fact this
| doesn't interact with other bodily tissues.
| pier25 wrote:
| I've always wondered how come there wasn't more effort put into
| something like this. It's a huge business opportunity. Everyone
| hates going to the dentist.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| Hair is a bigger market. Not in terms of people it affects, but
| what people will pay. But.... likewise, it amazes me we have a
| million and a half ways to grow hair on mice, but none on
| humans. Makes me think we need to relax human trials on
| volunteers (only half joking).
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| It's really astonishing how I know, intuitively, this is true
| but how weird people's priorities are.
|
| Being honest:
|
| 1. I started balding at a relatively normal age (first signs
| late 20s). At first I welcomed it, then I got a little self
| conscious (and wished for greys instead, those are finally
| coming into my beard and I couldn't be happier).
|
| 2. I've had dental health issues since childhood. My family
| couldn't afford regular dental care and I've always worried
| about it.
|
| 3. My teeth have rapidly deteriorated in my late 30s. I can't
| currently afford any dental care and I already know I'm
| looking at drastic solutions when I can.
|
| Having both a thin head of hair and a mouth full of trash, I
| know what I'd prioritize given the chance to magically turn
| back time time or scientifically reverse the worst of my
| biology. And it's not my hair.
|
| Shaving/trimming/styling baldness is trivial. My mouth is an
| unavoidable turnoff, a constant terrible personal experience,
| and an ongoing health risk.
|
| It's _bonkers_ to me that there's more money in solving hair
| than solving teeth, even though I know it's true.
| randycupertino wrote:
| I had a patient who was GOING BLIND and had a chance to get
| in a vision trial or a hair transplant trial but couldn't
| do both. He chose the hair trial. Over his own sight!!
|
| I was really annoyed at him for a while because I had moved
| heaven and earth for him to help him screen into the highly
| competitive vision trial. But... his life, his choice. Even
| though he made a dumb one, imo.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| Contrasting points...
|
| You can close your mouth., but can't stop someone from
| looking at your head.
|
| You can surgically replace all your teeth with perfect
| replicas and no one will be able to tell otherwise except
| in how perfect they are. The cost for this isn't low, but
| nor is it unobtainable. I bet $10k in Eastern Europe gets
| you nice teeth for the rest of your life.
|
| There is just no great option for hair. Even with infinite
| money like Musk or Bezos, you have plugs or nothing.
|
| But... if this enamel deal helps you, I'm glad!
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| For the vast majority of people who experience hair loss,
| it's... normal and expected, maybe somewhat romantically
| limiting. Poor dental health can be poor health overall.
| Traveling to Eastern Europe to spend $10k for something I
| actually need is not an option for me.
|
| Yeah I can close my mouth. And suffer. And let it keep
| rotting, crossing my fingers that related health impacts
| don't get to me before I can pay a car's value to get
| health care. Or people can look at my bald head and...
| nothing meaningful happened.
|
| I appreciate your kindness in expressing this contrarian
| view, but it's not helpful.
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| > normal and expected
|
| That sounds like wishful thinking, if it were true there
| wouldn't be a giant market in covering up hair loss.
| ebcode wrote:
| just because there's a giant market for (covering up)
| something, doesn't mean it isn't normal and expected.
| Women's leg hair comes to mind. Also wrinkle cream.
|
| Advertising makes us do things we might not otherwise do,
| is what I'm saying.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| That sounds like the market for reversing widespread
| adult male hair loss is where the wishful thinking is.
| spurgu wrote:
| There are multiple ways you can hide your hair (hats,
| caps, scarfs) while it's more difficult to hide your
| mouth/teeth. That said it's quite easy now during COVID
| times!
| cenkozan wrote:
| Highly out of context, but, another Turkish researcher outside
| Turkey, probably escaping Islamist government that's effing up
| Turkey, and coming up with ground breaking innovations. A a Turk,
| don't know if I should be thankful or mad as hell.
| Sunspark wrote:
| You can be both. You can be thankful that opportunities exist
| for them to practice their craft and bring things into the
| world to make it better. You can also be mad that they couldn't
| do it at home because of the regime which really does do
| ridiculous things like set monetary interest rates ignoring
| that it's still connected to the international financial
| system.
| qPM9l3XJrF wrote:
| How about rebuilding the bone the tooth grows out of? My dentist
| says that my teeth look great, but the x-ray of my alveolar bones
| that support those teeth look like that of someone 10 years older
| than me.
| chimen wrote:
| That would basically cure periodontal disease which would be
| huge. I don't think so, not this decade at least :)
| nibsfive wrote:
| Also: try nanohydroxyapetate.
| runawaybottle wrote:
| Chris Rock had a good story about when he got rich enough he just
| got brand new teeth. It's something I've thought about. If you
| get to a decent enough income level, why not just pay the price?
| One medical tourism visit to Costa Rica, and voila, problem
| solved.
| Giorgi wrote:
| If there is even small amount of truth in this, it is going to
| revolutionize dentist industry. In fact make it obsolete leaving
| only surgeries.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| Peptide medecine (heavily researched in Russia) has a magical
| potential. Through epigenetic changes it can alter almost
| anything: Anti Ageing Changing your skin color Atypical
| stimulant: semax Atypical anxiolitic:selank Physical
| performance/recovery Eye health Etc... There even is a peptide
| covid vaccine
|
| Discover more at r/peptides
| batter wrote:
| Believe me or not but if you have tooth sensitivity i would check
| sodium balance. Especially if you urinate frequently. This can
| ruin your teeth for long time. Yoga wheel for upper back can
| help.
| zaphod4prez wrote:
| Can you talk more about this? How do you check your sodium
| balance? I'm intrigued (and have tooth sensitivity). Thank you!
| batter wrote:
| I'm not sure what's happening. Couldn't find any related
| studies. But i have seen in couple friends already if you
| have teeth sensitivity and teeth that go bad frequently you
| might have problem with upper back. This leads to too much
| urination. Especially if you don't drink a lot. Kidneys need
| sodium for functioning. I can only speculate that kidneys for
| some reason are forced to lose sodium with urine and as
| result you'll have tooth sensitivity or even heart problems.
| My observation showed that upper back backward bend helps to
| eliminate that. And this might be the result of bad posture.
| But definitely i don't have good understanding what's
| happening, because I'm not a doc. Just try to bend like for
| gymnastics bridge (yoga wheel can help or sturdy park bench)
| and see yourself. It will take just couple days to show
| results,
| refurb wrote:
| Your body maintains your sodium levels in a very tight band.
| Why? Your nerves won't function otherwise. If it gets outside
| that range you typically die.
|
| So I'll have to say I'm highly skeptical about "checking your
| sodium balance".
| jcrben wrote:
| Weird teeth-cleaning trick that I discovered from suffering from
| interstitial cystitis / painful bladder syndrome (IC / BPS): toss
| a bit of baking soda in your water, such as 1 teaspoon per liter.
| It makes it alkaline. My teeth got whiter and felt better (less
| of a film feeling).
|
| Baking soda is used as a cooking ingredient and shouldn't be too
| risky, but don't go overboard... bit of discussion on the IC /
| BPS aspect in the two citations below (including risks):
|
| [Effects of urine alkalinization with sodium bicarbonate orally
| on lower urinary tract symptoms in female patients: a pilot study
| ](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00192-017-3492-...
| )
|
| [Urine alkalization improves the problems of pain and sleep in
| hypersensitive bladder
| syndrome](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24224617)
|
| UPDATE: Also check edathamil toothpaste as I mentioned in a below
| comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27329165
| AppleCandy wrote:
| I highly recommend everyone to keep in the bathroom cupboard a
| cup of baking soda submerged in water to make it paste-like.
| Rub a finger-tip's worth of wet baking soda over your tongue
| after you've flossed and brushed your teeth and tongue (tongue
| cleaning is important - I use my toothbrush). Then rinse mouth
| and teeth with this baking soda and saliva for a minute or so,
| before spitting out.
|
| This is the most effective addition to a mouth cleansing
| routine I've found. I may apply this wet baking soda "paste"
| multiple times a day, especially after eating or when I feel a
| rise in mouth acidity. Also, when I happen to get acid reflux
| or know I'm going to throw up I pre-emptively keep baking soda
| in my mouth to protect my teeth from acidity.
| xxpor wrote:
| Isn't baking soda a fairly common ingredient in toothpaste?
| (See arm and hammer brand toothpaste)
| jcrben wrote:
| Yep. Altho I've been using LivFresh which contains edathamil
| [1] and has no baking soda.
|
| The benefit of it being in your water is that you get that
| constant little flush of it
|
| [1] [Effects of a Novel Dental Gel on Plaque and Gingivitis:
| A Comparative
| Study](https://escholarship.org/uc/item/2d87n65m)
| _Microft wrote:
| Is the water with baking soda meant for drinking or for
| brushing your teeth with?
| rapjr9 wrote:
| My dentist said that chefs have a lot of problems with tooth
| decay since they do so much taste testing, so she recommends
| they keep a glass of water with some baking soda mixed in
| handy to rinse with after tasting.
| jcrben wrote:
| Drinking. In my case I'm trying to alkalize my urine to
| address IC / BPS... but if you just want the dental benefits
| you can treat it like a mouthwash
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Urine alkalinization will also slow down your kidney's
| excretion of alkaline drugs and their metabolites. And speed up
| excretion of acidic drugs.
|
| https://tmedweb.tulane.edu/pharmwiki/doku.php/ph_effect_on_d...
|
| And yes, you definitely don't want to overdo it:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk-alkali_syndrome#History
| afterburner wrote:
| > Urine alkalinization will also slow down your kidney's
| excretion of alkaline drugs and their metabolites. And speed
| up excretion of acidic drugs.
|
| So... overall good or bad?
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Depends if you took too little or too much.
|
| But even if you took too little, the drug may get broken
| down in other ways before you get rid of it for good.
| cmckn wrote:
| A teaspoon of baking soda dissolved in a glass of cold water is
| also the absolute best, _instant_ cure for heartburn. TUMS
| could never.
| jrockway wrote:
| I like it too. I do wonder about the health effects; you end
| up consuming a lot of sodium by drinking baking soda. I see
| in one of the studies they gave patients 8 grams of baking
| soda a day, which is more than you'd need to relieve
| heartburn. But, the study doesn't mention sodium and the
| effect on blood pressure at all, nor is it a long-term study.
|
| I think that as terrible as chewing chalk is, calcium is
| better than sodium.
| cmckn wrote:
| A teaspoon of baking soda has about 1200mg of sodium, which
| is about half of your daily allowance. If you have
| heartburn regularly enough that this intake is worrisome,
| I'd say a prescription would be a better option for you.
|
| I also prefer the baking soda over TUMS because it usually
| makes me burp, which feels soo good after it works its
| magic >_<
| kaminar wrote:
| Tums was invented to cause temporary relief, and requires
| constant use (the perfect product)...since it actually makes
| the symptoms return in time. Baking soda will also require
| constant use, as do prescription meds.
|
| Relief in the stomach requires more acid, not less. A shot of
| ACV (apple cider vinegar) and half teaspoon of honey will
| alleviate/cure indigestion in a few minutes. Received this
| advice from a naturopathist, and on the rare occasion that
| indigestion occurs, it works perfectly.
| sneak wrote:
| Back when I used to get heartburn regularly (fortunately,
| totally recovered now due to diet changes!), the chlorine in
| tap water was a major trigger... so do this trick with
| _bottled_ water.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| I was going to mention this too, as well as some of the other
| warnings. I'll also add that while it's extraordinarily
| effective,
|
| 1. It can be counterproductive if you're experiencing acid
| reflux, particularly if you're laying down. The acid
| neutralization produces a lot of gas (you'll burp a lot),
| which can flush acid up your esophagus before it can be
| neutralized. It's _awful_ and packaging that discusses its
| antacid usage explicitly recommend against use with reflux
| and heartburn caused by overeating for a reason.
|
| 2. Excessive usage can also be counterproductive. The more
| you regulate your internal acidity, the more your body will
| try to find balance, and you risk over-producing digestive
| acids even without triggers if you use this regularly.
|
| I'm relating both from painful experience. By all means, keep
| some bicarb handy! Just don't overdo it.
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| > The more you regulate your internal acidity, the more
| your body will try to find balance...
|
| You seem to be full of bad unsubstantiated health advice,
| for some reason. This is, of course, not true.
| klipt wrote:
| There is absolutely a rebound effect where suppressing
| acid production in the stomach over time causes more acid
| to be produced:
|
| https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112
| 564...
|
| > Stomach cells that make acid multiply over several
| weeks of exposure to a PPI in an effort to overcome the
| drug's effect. When the PPI is stopped, they pour out
| more acid than ever.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| Yes, you're right, my comments about coffee were
| obviously health advice and I definitely appreciate you
| becoming my fact check stalker. Go on.
| Juntu wrote:
| The amalgum and bubble gum cures anything for jaws and tooth
| aches in time the mouth lips teeth and gums become worsen when
| the tribulation of aged teeth's become in sense of whos teeth do
| i have enamel holds the tooth when in a fight our brain lets go
| of stiffness of the body that which cared can let us know that's
| too danger for trials to begin. Upvote
| throwcoke wrote:
| I've been drinking diet coke all day (about 3 liters/day) for
| many years, which causes my teeth to be less than white and also
| rather sensitive. Besides the coloring, I suspect that the enamel
| is being thinned down by the citric/phosphoric acid. I have no
| chronic pain, but the cosmetic aspect and the sensitivity bothers
| me. TFA sounds like that treatment could help.
|
| Any other recommendations for my situation? I can't brush
| agressively due to receding gums. I use a chlorhexidine solution
| regularly, which helps preventing inflammation/aphthae in the
| mouth, which I used to have quite often prior to discovering CHX.
| And no, dialing down the diet coke is unfortunately not possible
| for me. ;)
| sabco wrote:
| Why is reducing the diet coke not possible for you? I don't
| mean to ask this as a snide remark, I'm just curious.
| throwcoke wrote:
| It's a strong addiction. I'm a device for turning diet code
| into working software ;) [1]. I need the caffeine kick. I
| don't particularly like to drink tea or coffee (which
| wouldn't help with the teeth coloring anyway). And I like the
| taste of diet coke (or coke zero) a lot. I tried switching to
| water multiple times, but was unable to sustain it. I wish
| Coca-Cola would produce a colorless variant (like Pepsi once
| did), which would at least improve the whiteness.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfr%C3%A9d_R%C3%A9nyi#Quot
| ati...
| briane80 wrote:
| "I've never seen a thin person drinking diet coke"
| khalilravanna wrote:
| What about switching to seltzer you can mix with caffeine
| powder? If you look you should be able to find a "cola"
| flavored one which while not the same should at least be an
| approximation. From some quick googling it appears seltzer
| still has carbonic acid which ain't great for your teeth but
| it's not as bad as regular soda's acid-combo [1].
|
| [1] https://espiredental.com/is-seltzer-really-bad-for-your-
| teet...
| throwcoke wrote:
| Thanks. I googled for cola-flavored caffeine powder, but
| couldn't find anything. Do you have an example?
|
| The caffeine content of Coke is relatively low (only about a
| third or fourth of coffee, and lower than other cola
| products), which makes it practical for me to sip it all day.
| I guess I'm as much addicted to the taste as to the caffeine.
| swader999 wrote:
| What if this works too well? Everyone is going to look like a
| beaver.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| When the orthodontist finally removed my braces as a kid, it also
| removed most of the enamel from the front of my teeth. I wish I
| had been told that and given a choice, because I'd honestly
| prefer strong, healthy, white, crooked teeth, to stained weak
| cavity-filled straight ones. (And the bottom row grew crooked
| anyway)
| sarak12070 wrote:
| Best way to remove baby hair from your head
| http://healthwithbeauty.xyz/2021/05/29/how-to-remove-baby-ha...
|
| coconut milk for hair straightening
| http://healthwithbeauty.xyz/2021/05/29/coconut-milk-for-hair...
|
| Website offering duo $2,000 to play video games for 21 hours
| https://www.interestingnews.club/2021/05/website-offering-du...
| rocky1138 wrote:
| If we chew on enough of these lozenges, will our teeth merge into
| one, curved megatooth?
| OJFord wrote:
| And why haven't we evolved to have that yet anyway? It's surely
| better, nowhere for food to get stuck? (Assuming it can still
| be molar/canine/incisor like in different places on that
| plane.)
| webmaven wrote:
| _> And why haven 't we evolved to have that yet anyway? It's
| surely better, nowhere for food to get, stuck? (Assuming it
| can still be molar/canine/incisor like in different places on
| that plane.)_
|
| Well, in software terms, you're describing a monolithic
| architecture. A single cavity would destroy the whole thing.
| You'd probably have to replace the choppers more frequently
| as your skull grows into adulthood, or we would have to be
| born with larger jaws that don't need to grow as much as we
| mature.
|
| There is also the matter of how evolvable the platform would
| be. As a species, we're in the process of losing our wisdom
| teeth, and I suspect that would be harder to do if the
| skull/jaw/gum/tooth platform was... more tightly coupled,
| less modular.
|
| I myself never had any wisdom teeth, and kept a couple of my
| milk teeth into my 40s before one had to be replaced with a
| crown, and the other just fell out when the root dissolved.
| Human dentition has a _lot_ of variability.
|
| Still, birds did it (as have other species over the Earth's
| long evolutionary history), so it isn't an insoluble
| challenge, but it would be a rather more radical change than
| just fusing teeth together.
| eyelidlessness wrote:
| We haven't even evolved to have a single set of teeth. We're
| born with stand ins that grow out and push "baby" teeth out.
| They're pretty much set up to be disposable, we just haven't
| evolved a good replacement pipeline.
| riffraff wrote:
| my understanding is that we're basically not supposed to live
| long enough to care, evolution didn't have time to
| overcorrect for abundance of sugar and people living into old
| age.
| danschumann wrote:
| Will this help Mitch Hedberg enthusiasts realize his dream of
| having just two long curvy teeth?
| nikolay wrote:
| A whole dental line has been available in Germany for years -
| Apacare [0].
|
| [0]: https://www.apacare.com/
| NaN1352 wrote:
| > Brush your teeth for 3 minutes in the morning and in the
| evening. (apacare site)
|
| When do you do it though? Doesn't it undermine the brushing if
| you eat or drink coffee within an hour afterwards?
|
| Or does it not matter and you brush first thing in the morning?
| Etheryte wrote:
| The results for hydroxyapatite seem to be mixed, some studies
| have found it has no statistically significant benefit over
| fluoride toothpaste [0], while others have found some benefit
| [1][2]. Interesting none the less, thanks for linking to it.
|
| [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41405-019-0026-8
|
| [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25019114/
|
| [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5121804/
| nikolay wrote:
| I just found they have a gum solution as well - GengiGel [0].
|
| [0]: https://www.gengigel.de/
| Giorgi wrote:
| Nope, completely different thing: Xylitol, Gum Base, Calcium
| Phosphate, Acacia Gum, Glycerin, Aroma, CI 77891, Lecitin of
| Soya, Glycyrrhiza Glabra Extract, Cera Carnauba.
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _In addition, the researchers are investigating a gel or
| solution with the engineered peptide to treat hypersensitive
| teeth. This problem results from weakness in the enamel that
| makes the underlying dentin and nerves more vulnerable to heat or
| cold. Most common products currently on the market can put a
| layer of organic material on the tooth and numb nerve endings
| with potassium nitrate, but the relief is only temporary. The
| peptide, however, addresses the problem permanently at its source
| by strengthening the enamel._
|
| I want this so badly.
|
| I've never had a cavity despite my poor dental hygiene habits and
| lack of dental practice visits but apparently I suffer from
| bruxism that can make half of my teeth hurt whenever I bite on
| anything harder than a wet noodle. Just now I brushed my teeth
| with a pain-numbing toothpaste and just the act of brushing my
| teeth made them hurt. Although sometimes I can go for some time
| without pain, it's been pretty much a constant in my life for the
| last years.
| emodendroket wrote:
| I have a similar problem but sleeping with a night guard helps,
| and also Gel Kam twice daily is much more effective than the
| sensitive tooth toothpaste.
| Wistar wrote:
| Although I haven't personally tried it, I have friends outside
| of the US that rave about Sensodyne Repair & Protect _original_
| with the "Powered by NovaMin" badging. NovaMin is composed of
| special ceramic particles that coat the teeth with a compound
| that reacts with the saliva to form a durable physical barrier.
|
| The problem is that the stuff with NovaMin is not typically
| available in the US. I just searched Amazon and found that they
| do sell small tubes of the real thing for about $14 each. Looks
| like it is coming from Canada.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Sensodyne-Protect-Whitening-Toothpast...
|
| Here is a 2013 article:
|
| https://ceramics.org/ceramic-tech-today/biomaterials/gsk-dro...
| squarefoot wrote:
| That Sensodyne paste struck some memories; I recall having
| seen it at a local shop, possibly even trying it, although at
| a much lower price, and a quick check on a local price list
| site confirms it.
|
| https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https.
| ..
|
| All prices under EUR4, but of course shipping rates are for
| local delivery and I have no idea if the sellers can ship
| abroad, most of them might not even speak a word of English,
| however here they are; making quite a big order would defeat
| the costs for shipping to the US, which usually are high.
| simon_weber wrote:
| As of a few years ago there's a similar FDA approved
| ingredient available in the US as BioMin. It works well for
| me and is cheaper than importing NovaMin.
| analyte123 wrote:
| Biomin also claims that their particles are smaller and
| therefore more effective at mineralization than Novamin.
|
| Another option for leveling up on toothpaste is using those
| that contain micronized hydroxyapatite. Options here are
| Carifree or the Japanese brand Apagard available on eBay or
| Amazon. Biomin's formula is proprietary but it might
| contain hydroxyapatite in part.
|
| I stopped randomly getting cavities after using xylitol gum
| occasionally and brushing with these various toothpastes,
| n=1.
|
| There also exist a variety of oral probiotics that claim to
| rebalance mouth flora away from species that cause
| cavities.
|
| While no dentist ever told me about any of these options,
| at least Carifree is starting to market through US
| dentists.
| minxomat wrote:
| Not to be confused with the painkiller Novamin (Metamizole).
| Jach wrote:
| I stock up on it (and Eat-Mores) when I visit Vancouver, but
| it's not magical and won't fix a bad habit of not brushing
| very often.
| moneywoes wrote:
| Live in Vancouver. Where do you purchase it?
| Jach wrote:
| I suppose anywhere the sells toothpaste, just make sure
| it has Novamin on the package since Sensodyne has other
| kinds. I don't remember exactly where it was last time,
| some random corner store near the Waterfront station
| (perhaps Shoppers Drug Mart looking at a map, or Seymour
| mini mart).
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| It helps a lot for sensitive teeth.
| AndrewOMartin wrote:
| Just out of interest, and not detracting from what you're
| saying, but normal fluoride also forms a compound (flouro-
| apetite) more resistant to avoid than normal tooth material
| (appetite). At least according to this chemist:
| https://youtu.be/vtWp45Eewtw
|
| (tooth chat at 5:10, but the whole video is interesting)
| 52-6F-62 wrote:
| Oh I need to try this. My enamel has been bad since I was a
| kid in spite of a great oral hygiene routine. Constant
| problems.
|
| My dentist turned me on to Colgate Prevident and the regular
| Sensodyne fluoride pastes but never that one.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| I've been using it for years - the first time I went to the
| dentist after having used it for a while was the first time
| I've ever had a dentist be so positive about the condition of
| my teeth.
| elorant wrote:
| I live in Greece and use the toothpaste regularly. It really
| works. Prices here are about 4.5 euro each.
| StavrosK wrote:
| We have it? Is it called "repair and protect" here too? I'm
| gonna get it.
| elorant wrote:
| Yeap. Sensodyne Repair & Protect. It's a fairly new
| product, I accidentally found it at a pharmacy after
| reading a comment in here. Saw it at a local super market
| too the other day (sklavenitis).
| MaysonL wrote:
| I just bought 3 small tubes for $9 on Amazon, seemingly
| coming from Canada. I bought some previously from an Amazon
| seller in India, and have been using it for a few weeks. It
| seems to be working - teeth are less sensitive.
| emmelaich wrote:
| It's here in Australia - around AUD10 for a large tube.
|
| PS. Novamin is Calcium Sodium Phosphosilicate as the active
| ingredient.
| dheera wrote:
| > Conventional whitening treatments rely on hydrogen peroxide
|
| Has anyone tried those newer Japanese hydroxyappetite
| toothpastes? They aren't based on hydrogen peroxide. I recently
| started using this a few days ago.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Apagard-Premio-toothpaste-nanohydroxy...
| molticrystal wrote:
| This article is from March and states the trials were expected
| to start in March or April. They say each round of trials is 3
| months so it will be just in time for the next round if you are
| aiming to sign up.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I don't live anywhere near the United States so I imagine I
| can't.
| throw78239 wrote:
| Yeah it's necessary to visit a dentist regularly, even if you
| go for conservative treatments. Every now and then they might
| have a good recommendation. Regarding the muscle tension itself
| Progressive muscle relaxation can help.
| INTPenis wrote:
| >I've never had a cavity despite my poor dental hygiene habits
| and lack of dental practice visits
|
| How old are you?
|
| I was the same until 34 years of age, that's when I bit down on
| a peanutbutter brittle piece from haagen daazs ice cream and
| broke my first tooth. After that the visits just piled on.
|
| Now I have one root totally dug out and filled in, (root
| canal?) and one small hole filled in. I floss daily and brush
| daily now. I take it seriously. Don't be like me, take it
| seriously now!
| mrwww wrote:
| I didnt know I had bruxism, but got a custom fitted plastic
| bite tray thing (sorry not sure how to translate) to wear at
| night, because i have a bad bite. And damn that thing changed
| my life. it was like EUR300. And yea discovered i had bruxism
| because my jaw and face felt so unusually relaxed in the
| morning.
|
| Make sure you look into having something at night so your teeth
| doesnt wear further :)
| andi999 wrote:
| I also looked it up, I think it is called a mouthguard.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Yeah my teeth are sensitive (cold and sugar). I could use
| something like this pretty badly. I've always brushed
| religiously but I still know over time and as you age enamel is
| just thinning.
| SignalNotSecure wrote:
| Describe your diet in detail
| graeme wrote:
| Others gave you good advice. But you need to speak with a
| dentist and see if your teeth are in good health.
|
| Some things I've tried that will help:
|
| * Fitted mouth guard (splint). This reduces tooth wear and
| muscle pain
|
| * Optirinse fluoride rinse. You can use this every day to
| reduce sensitivity
|
| * Sensodyn with novamin. Remineralizes
|
| * Face massage. I actually had a lot of tooth pain that was
| just referred pain. I grinded, my jaw tightened, this muscle
| tension hurt my teeth. When I pressed certain areas in my jaw
| and relaxed the muscle I felt the pain trigger, then dissipate.
| Some professional massage got rid of it fully.
| elliekelly wrote:
| Have you looked into botox shots at all? When I tell you my
| life changed _completely_ from a 15 minute botox appointment
| with an oral surgeon I am not exaggerating in the least. I'd
| had no idea what it felt like to live without bruxism - not
| only were my teeth better but my neck stopped aching, my back
| muscles stopped spasming, and I stopped getting migraines
| entirely. I had gotten debilitating migraines once every month
| or two since I was a kid and had been taking pretty serious
| medicine to prevent and combat them for the better part of a
| decade. They stopped completely, cold turkey, after my first
| botox appointment. And I had no idea that was even a possible
| side effect(? benefit?) of the botox procedure at the time!
|
| I'm sure I've written about it here before but it was wild how
| much the botox changed my quality of life to the point it was
| actually really upsetting to me at first. I had struggled for
| so long and I had to fight with insurance so much to get the
| botox covered (it was off-label at the time for TMJ, I think
| it's approved now) and there had been a safe, simple, and
| highly effective solution that I sort of stumbled into out of
| sheer desperation, a lot of good luck, and a series of
| referrals on referrals on referrals.
|
| Oh yeah, and much to my dentist & orthodontist's delight, I
| stopped breaking my retainer in my sleep, stopped needing a
| mouth guard at night, and stopped needing special toothpaste
| for my sensitive teeth. But those improvements pale in
| comparison to the literal whole-body benefits.
|
| I know it's not going to be a magic bullet solution for
| everyone the way it was for me but the improvement was so night
| and day I have an almost compulsive need to bring it up
| whenever someone mentions they suffer from bruxism or migraines
| just in case it can put an end to their misery, too. So if you
| haven't looked into it yet the potential upside makes it well
| worthwhile to bring it up with your doctor and/or dentist.
|
| Or, if you happen to be in Massachusetts, give Dr. David Keith
| at MGH a call.
| Kinrany wrote:
| Startup idea: Reddit, but with a betting market about
| astroturfing
| Gene_Parmesan wrote:
| It does read a little bit like astroturfing, but as someone
| who had a (different) lifelong debilitating condition that
| has been almost entirely solved by a few doctor's
| appointments, I can say that nothing turns you into an
| advocate for something faster than this sort of experience.
| For me it was almost spiritual in the end. It was also
| oddly upsetting in some way, thinking about all the years I
| had wasted when essentially two hour-long appointments were
| all I needed. You gain this almost overwhelming need to
| help other people avoid the same morass you were in.
| Kinrany wrote:
| Yeah, I don't doubt this happens. If it didn't,
| astroturfing wouldn't work! Betting on whether a specific
| comment is legit would still be interesting.
| zby wrote:
| Hmm - this is really a deep issue here. How should we
| learn about these new treatments? Shouldn't we wait for
| the dentist to learn about it and evaluate - wouldn't
| someone with more background information be more suitable
| for that and maybe save us from traps? On average I would
| agree with that - but there are cracks in the bureaucracy
| mainstream medicine machine: https://equilibriabook.com/,
| and also I believe that communities like HN can be
| somehow trusted - it is possible to be better than the
| average: https://zby.medium.com/rational-patient-
| community-6d3617dffc...
| nikodunk wrote:
| Thank you so much for posting this! I've ground my teeth
| badly my whole life, it's starting to get to the bad parts of
| my teeth and gums receding etc etc despite retainers, and
| I'll definitely look into this!
|
| Yours,
|
| Guy at the end of his enamel
| nextos wrote:
| You may also want to check your neck posture. I've found
| that, in my case, using laptops invariably leads to bruxism
| due to poor ergonomics.
|
| Quitting laptops and using a proper desktop, or a laptop
| stand plus an external keyboard, was like toggling off the
| bruxism switch. It went off in a week. Plus, I stopped
| suffering from horrible migraines.
|
| In order to repair your enamel a bit and keep what you have
| you may want to try toothpastes and creams that contain
| enamel-like ceramics. I've had spectacular results with a
| combination of calcium salts, fluoride and hydroxyapatite
| and ceramics (Novamin). There are better things to add up
| into the mix right now, such as self-assembling peptide
| scaffolds.
| werdnapk wrote:
| I asked my wife (an oral surgeon) if she does this procedure
| for the same issue and she says yes. Happy to hear this is
| common practice for oral surgeons.
| bredren wrote:
| I don't know anything about this ailment or this solution but
| I'm glad to read this story.
|
| I've found other examples of ailments with relatively
| inexpensive or simple solutions that are unknown to many.
|
| I think many people suffer to varying degrees simply because
| they don't know some important piece of information.
|
| Sometimes historical solutions overwhelm new or lesser known
| yet effective solutions and this prevents people from living
| better lives.
|
| Sort of like how stack overflow is overrun with answers
| conflating jquery with JavaScript.
|
| With health stuff, I think sometimes the friction and expense
| of seeing a professional prevents people from getting
| answers. Though sometimes these folks don't have the most up
| to date or best information either.
|
| It is almost like we need wikihow style answers for a far
| broader spread over life's many questions.
|
| In some cases like parent's, this can be life-changing
| information. And while the procedure is not free the
| knowledge that motivates one to find a way to greatly improve
| one's own outlook is.
| doctorbaum wrote:
| "The future is here, it's just not evenly distributed" - I
| always encounter this theme with healthcare
| officialjunk wrote:
| to clarify, are you saying that a single treatment of botox
| cured you of these ailments?
| elliekelly wrote:
| Good question, no. It's too late to edit my original
| comment but I went probably every two or three months for a
| few years. The relief was immediate and continual and the
| migraines, back spasms, etc. never returned but I did get
| maintenance injections. I don't know how to describe it but
| I could kind of feel that was wearing off. Like I feel my
| jaw muscles getting stronger and that's when I'd make an
| appointment to go back. Eventually the follow-up
| appointments started to spread out further and then they
| stopped. I still don't chew gum, though. As soon as I chew
| gum I can feel those muscles wanting to bulk right back up!
|
| It's my understanding that Botox weakens the muscle and
| people who clench/grind their teeth have _very_ strong
| muscles so you kind of keep going until the muscle is
| atrophied(?) down to a normal strength. So I would imagine
| the earlier you go for treatment the shorter the amount
| time you'd require treatment and vice versa. For more
| severe cases there's actually a visible difference in your
| face, too. It's too subtle for most people to notice but I
| can look at photos of myself and tell you whether it was
| before or after I started botox. When your jaw muscles are
| so strong it makes your face more square.
|
| Here's a good example of what I'm talking about:
| https://www.realself.com/photos/botox/botox-for-tmj#media-
| ph...
| zadler wrote:
| Is it safe? I've read that it might cause bone loss and
| the long term safety has not been established.
| ballballball wrote:
| Botox lasts for about 3 months. It can take multiple
| treatments to allow for muscle atrophy. The relief usually
| lasts for as long as the Botox does until the muscles
| change.
| cannaceo wrote:
| Thanks, I'm going to try this. Wonder if it's the cause of my
| neck issues.
| ce4 wrote:
| Back problems, bruxism, migraines - have you had yourself
| tested for some bacterial infection like e.g. lyme or
| bartonella? Just to have that excluded before treating
| symptoms.
|
| I've had all of this for years (more like decades) plus
| different additional symptoms and got diagnosed last year.
| The ongoing treatment is not for the faint of heart but
| symptoms are on the retreat since.
|
| PS: I've grown up in rural Germany and also had close contact
| to cattle as a kid etc.
| fighterpilot wrote:
| What other bacterial infections could cause these symptoms
| aside from lyme and bartonella?
|
| Would such an infection be able to explain chronic symptoms
| over a 1-2 year period?
| Groxx wrote:
| > _Would such an infection be able to explain chronic
| symptoms over a 1-2 year period?_
|
| These symptoms specifically: some at least, I believe.
| Lyme disease is fairly well known for having severe
| lasting effects though, years of issues even after
| treatment is not uncommon at all.
| ce4 wrote:
| My MD offers lab tests for Chlamydia, Bartonella,
| different strains of Borellia, Yersinia, Ehrlichia
| amongst others, she also offers tests for HPV and Mono.
| To be honest: I have no clue what is causing which exact
| symptom, it's also often the immune response /
| inflammation that's the reason for the pain and other
| problems.
|
| Edit: forgot to answer your question. yes, in my case it
| was episodes of joint pain, neck stiffness,
| lightheadedness, heavy fatigue, numb fingertips, skin
| problems, heavy mood swings and more with symptom free
| times in between for more than 20 years - often triggered
| by stress but not always. And the symptoms got worse with
| me growing older.
|
| The condition is not easy to diagnose and you need the
| right specialist, there's lots of snake oil out there and
| treatment is longterm and without a guarantee to cure
| 100%.
| fighterpilot wrote:
| Thanks. What kind of specialist is suggested for such a
| bacterial infection? Immunologist?
| ce4 wrote:
| My general practitioner who is also an internist was
| overwhelmed ("deal with it, you're getting older"
| diagnosed only psychosomatic reasons etc). A friend of
| mine suggested an MD who specializes in such infections,
| I later changed to a Doc nearer to where I live. Got the
| address from Deutsche Borreliose Gesellschaft, a german
| registry for lyme.
| reader_x wrote:
| Can you describe more specifically where the Botox was
| injected? What muscle(s) did it paralyze?
| ballballball wrote:
| We usually do masseter and temporalis muscles.
| criddell wrote:
| Any idea if it works for tinnitus?
| elliekelly wrote:
| I don't know the muscles but maybe someone here can chime
| in with the specific names from this very unscientific
| description: on each side of my head kind of near my
| temples and on each side of my jaw near the corner(?) bone.
| (Really regretting never having taken an anatomy class...)
| If you put your finger on your earlobe and pull it maybe an
| inch forward I would say it was about there. My doctor
| kindly used some sort of very cold topical numbing spray
| before the injections which meant I couldn't feel much. So
| in addition to my description being very unscientific it
| could also be slightly inaccurate.
|
| I _think_ my doctor was somewhat unique (at least at the
| time) for doing the temple injections to treat TMJ and I
| _think_ the temple is one of the injection locations used
| now when someone gets Botox for migraines. I know there
| were additional possible injection sites he used for more
| severe cases or where there wasn't complete relief but I
| can't recall where they were because I didn't end up
| needing them.
| TimTheTinker wrote:
| Could you be referring to the masseters? Those are the
| muscles you use for chewing.
| amelius wrote:
| Are there any negative side effects from this procedure,
| short term and long term?
|
| How frequently does it need to be repeated?
| mrwww wrote:
| Interesting solution! I had massive issues with my posture,
| neck, hips and even feet, which i know, sounds crazy, but all
| came from my bruxism and bite. If you have bad posture and
| maloclussion, look into forward head posture, lots of studies
| on it now.
|
| I have not done botox. What i did was jaw relaxation
| exersices and physiotherapy. Its helped a lot.
|
| I have a compulsive need to bring this up as well, I didnt
| understand it all was happening to me and starting to treat
| it has changed my life.
| zwily wrote:
| I don't know you and haven't had any of your symptoms, but
| reading your story brought a smile to my face. Thanks for
| sharing, hopefully it helps others.
| timonoko wrote:
| This "biting hurts" sounds little ominous. Have they X-rayed
| your roots? I had recently two root canals and the doctor told
| they have been infected for half a century, but healed on their
| own. The reason they were infected was I a stopped chewing
| Xylitol-gum. And the reason I stopped chewing was I my teeth
| started cracking because of old age. Root canals are not big
| thing nowadays, painless and fast.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I did have X-rays taken the last time I was at the dentist,
| but I don't know if that covers the roots.
| timonoko wrote:
| Ok. X-rays are not that good, it mostly is guesswork. But I
| remembered other indicator. Does it hurt when you push the
| roots from outside at your face? Also does it feel mushy or
| liquid-ly at some point. I had totally painless bag of puss
| under my eye for 10 years. Only when got infected for the
| second time, it started to hurt and needed a canal, via
| which the said puss squirted out. It is like totally new
| now, did not even need a crown.
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _Does it hurt when you push the roots from outside at
| your face? Also does it feel mushy or liquid-ly at some
| point._
|
| I don't think so.
| robocat wrote:
| For anybody that grinds their teeth, investigate getting a
| splint _before_ you reach this stage.
|
| https://www.coredental.com.au/splints-dentist-recommend-one/
| crypto-cousin wrote:
| Or jaw surgery. Splints (especially mouthguards) can force
| you to mouthbreathe and cause sleep apnea.
| snegu wrote:
| This is my problem right now. My dentist told me my ground-
| down molars are some of the worst he's ever seen, but my
| splint makes me snore terribly (I wear it anyway). Not sure
| I'm up for jaw surgery though!
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| They give me very bad tooth pain and cause my teeth to move
| (I couldn't close my mouth properly after I used one for a
| couple weeks as 2 teeth would end up touching that didn't
| before). Luckily it reverted quickly but I stopped using it.
|
| I mainly used it because sometimes I woke up hitting my teeth
| together really hard (it hurt a lot) but it was mainly due to
| stress. I really try to avoid that now, if I fail I may go
| back to using it :(
|
| These lozenges will be great to get. I have pretty strong
| enamel though as they give all kids regular fluoride
| treatments. It really helped for me. I didn't have a cavity
| until the age of 43.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > cause my teeth to move
|
| This is why you want one fitted across all your teeth by a
| dentist. And made out of a solid material so it continues
| to fit the same way rather than sharper teeth pushing down
| further. That way it sits properly and balances all of the
| tooth-tooth forces.
|
| Having said all that, mine developed a hairline fracture
| and eventually split in two, but actually sits a bit better
| as two pieces until I get a new one made in a month.
| djxfade wrote:
| I struggle with this. However I don't know what to do. I
| couldn't wear a splint, because I have a very sensitive gag
| reflex. I can almost start vomiting just by brushing me
| teeths...
| wonnage wrote:
| See if your dentist can do a smaller splint on your front
| teeth, if your teeth haven't already been misaligned due to
| the bruxism this shouldn't cause anything to shift.
| danielheath wrote:
| Soft mouth guards as are used for contact sports?
|
| You dip them in hot water and then bite to form them, so
| they aren't near your gag reflex.
| acranox wrote:
| Have you tried a toothpaste with Stannous Fluoride? Potassium
| nitrate never helped me any, but stannous fluoride has helped
| with my tooth sensitivity.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| Doesn't pretty much all toothpaste have that? Unless its
| kid's toothpaste or something specifically for people who are
| avoiding flouride.
| acranox wrote:
| No they don't all have it. Stannous fluoride is different
| than whatever the regular fluoride is. I don't know the
| details, I just know my dental hygienist recommended I try
| it, and it actually helped, which I wasn't expecting.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| No they don't. You have to look for it. Crest and Colgate
| both have versions, the stannous has additional bacteria
| killing properties and filling in porous teeth as well that
| the potassium fluoride doesn't have. Plenty of research
| available online
| totalZero wrote:
| Stannous as in tin (SnF2). Other fluoride toothpastes often
| use sodium fluoride or sodium monofluorophosphate. Stannous
| fluoride is slightly more likely to stain your teeth.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I'm currently using Elmex Sensitive Professional. It's
| apparently using arginine as its active ingredient. Although
| I don't know which ingredient in here it is that is actually
| in charge of numbing the pain. I know I've dabble with some
| other one as well but I have no idea what it had.
|
| I did find Meridol and Sensodyne Rapid Relief toothpastes
| listed on a national pharmacy's website that apparently
| contain stannous fluoride, so maybe I'll have to try those
| out at some point. I don't think I've ever tried either.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| I was just told I need a quintuple extraction after having to
| go to the ER with jaw pain. 4 wisdoms and a molar.
|
| I really wish they'd hurry this up.
|
| It's too late for those teeth but maybe I can save others.
|
| I've been having some success with toothpaste with NovaMin (has
| to be purchased outside the US) and mouthwash that contains
| Dipotassium Oxalate Monohydrate. That is OTC in the US but you
| have to find the ones with it.
| wtvanhest wrote:
| Not sure why you need the extraction, but for me personally,
| I had my teeth shift ever so slightly which threw off my
| bite. Pain was excruciating. The solution was a tiny amount
| of polishing a few of my teeth so my bite was better lined
| up.
|
| If someone had told me to remove the teeth because of the
| pain, I would have said yes.
|
| I'd at least make sure that they tested your bite before you
| move forward with extraction.
| dghughes wrote:
| Check into acid reflux aka GERD that could be a big part of
| your problem.
|
| I was to the point where eating a room temperature banana in
| mid summer was too cold for my teeth. My dentist figured out it
| was the acid I was coughing up getting on my teeth.
|
| I also grind my teeth but that's more mechanical the acid
| affects all surfaces of my teeth. Sensodyne toothpaste or
| similar helps a bit if I remember to not rinse it off.
| Faaak wrote:
| Have you tried Novamin containing toothpaste (Sensodyne repair
| & protect) ? I've heard its not available in the US but I
| suppose you could still buy it online.
|
| I've had tooth sensitivity for a while, and this tootpaste
| fixed the problem for me
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| You can buy it on Amazon but you have to be careful about the
| source.
| leokennis wrote:
| Can vouch for this toothpaste. 2-3x more expensive than
| regular, but I never suffer from sensitive teeth anymore.
| williesleg wrote:
| 4 out of 5 dentists surveyed will stop this.
| xivzgrev wrote:
| This is cool but I really want something that can regrow my gums.
| I've had some recession and I have sensitivity to cold liquids.
| The dentists say the only option is surgery
| etxm wrote:
| Same. I've had two grafts in the same area (cadaver and auto)
| and neither of them held.
|
| What drives me wild is I floss twice a day, brush three times a
| day with the daintiest grip you've ever seen.
|
| Every time I go to the dentist, recession.
|
| Meanwhile my spouse brushes once a day, maybe flosses
| occasionally and has never had recession or a cavity.
| SoylentYellow wrote:
| I'm about to get a donor graft soon. Why didn't your's work
| out?
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Call me paranoid but I'm curious what % of the industry exists
| because of cavities? How much of a typical dentist office's time
| is spent repairing cavities?
|
| I'm not suggesting some conspiracy. Just that market motivations
| might be misaligned.
| artificial wrote:
| Interesting point. Wouldn't that raise something deeper about
| sugar vs fat consumption?
| docflabby wrote:
| I found sensodyn repair and protect less effective than
| regenerate nr5? Anyone else used this product?
|
| https://www.regeneratenr5.co.uk/products/advanced-toothpaste
| donogh wrote:
| I'm using repair and protect, and I have no idea whether it's
| doing anything. Experienced a much greater impact by cutting
| out most added sugar from my diet (including in coffee).
|
| On Regenerate NR5, there seems to be skepticism on Reddit. This
| analysis looks solid:
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Dentistry/comments/2afh74/has_anyon...
|
| It suggests they're using fairly standard ingredients that are
| present in many toothpastes.
|
| Caveat emptor..
| dEnigma wrote:
| Hopefully not cavity emptor
| alexander_gold wrote:
| https://superflyjetskis.shop
| Black101 wrote:
| Please get those crooked dentists out of work, as much as
| possible.
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| Let me guess..dentists should provide their valuable services
| free of charge because...?
| Black101 wrote:
| being honest and competent would be enough...
| [deleted]
| VierScar wrote:
| Crooked dentists? Is this some sort of conspiracy theory?
| Dentists are medical professionals, who have been needed since
| the dark ages, and nowadays have very complex equipment and
| technology to ensure the best long-term and life-like suitable
| treatments for people.
|
| What are you on about?
| mikem170 wrote:
| There are crooked dentists. I've moved around a lot and been
| to a lot of dentists. There's a few that I trust, but also
| slightly more than a few who have tried to rip me off.
|
| I've had dental offices that try to sell/bill me for extra
| cavities (7 at one place!), preventative crowns, sneaking in
| fluoride treatments and other add-ons to a cleaning, and
| periodontal cleanings.
|
| In all of these occasions I'd get other opinions, often more
| than one, and would be told by other dentists that I didn't
| need these treatments.. I've found that dentists are more
| variable than car mechanics, meaning that if you go to three
| dentists you might end up with three different treatment
| recommendations.
|
| I've also had two hygienists tell me they would never go to a
| corporate/franchise/national dental chain, after having
| worked at these places and seeing first hand how they've
| taken advantage of people, going as far as recommending
| implants that weren't needed. Based on my experiences I would
| concur.
| Black101 wrote:
| Last time I went to the dentist for a chipped tooth that
| didn't hurt, I was told that I needed a root canal... 6
| visits later and 2 root canal treatment on the same tooth, my
| tooth is now sensitive to heat and pressure (and I had to pay
| $1600 for this shitty treatment)... The previous time I had a
| tooth issue, I had a similar experience (both in the US but
| in different states).
|
| I will try Mexico next time.
| 542458 wrote:
| To be fair, dentists do engage in what really looks like
| price fixing (at least where I am, and to an outside eye).
| Every dentist here charges the exact same amount, regardless
| of whether they're in the middle of a high-income
| metropolitan area or in bumkinville.
|
| Also every once in a while you see some real horror stories
| of dentists doing unnecessary procedures on sedated patients,
| and although the extreme cases are absolutely the exception,
| I always do have to wonder if I actually need the (often
| expensive) treatments they recommend.
| OJFord wrote:
| In the UK it is price fixed... By the NHS centrally.
| (Private practices exist too.)
|
| Iirc, a check-up is PS22, incl. anything relatively
| standard they need to do (cleaning, sealing, I think even
| the cheap non-white or whatever fillings, etc.). Certainly
| not an amount to be annoyed at the lack of reduction
| through competition.
| sithadmin wrote:
| >Every dentist here charges the exact same amount,
| regardless of whether they're in the middle of a high-
| income metropolitan area or in bumkinville
|
| In the USA? If so, that's probably moreso a result of the
| reimbursement structures imposed by dental insurance
| companies, rather than active collusion among dentists.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| Ehhh... dentists (even the not-obvious-scam ones) are
| notorious for overprescribing expensive and invasive
| unnecessary treatments.
|
| They are medical professionals of course, and few are
| recommending completely nonsense, but it's like, if go to a
| plastic surgeon... they are probably going to find plastic
| surgery to perform. Not that it's _wrong_, just that it's
| really not necessary when you balance in the cost.
| miles wrote:
| > Crooked dentists? ... What are you on about?
|
| Like any profession, dentistry has it share of charlatans:
|
| The Truth About Dentistry
| https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/05/the-
| tro...
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| What became of the criminal case against Lund?
| bachmeier wrote:
| You're a rabid anti-dentite. Next thing you know you're saying
| they should have their own schools.
| muststopmyths wrote:
| I remember when this episode aired. I brought it up with my
| dentist on my next visit and for some reason she wasn't
| amused.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| defaultname wrote:
| How does this compare with Sensodyne Repair and Protect? That
| product uses Novamin and effective rebuilds enamel, also offering
| whitening, reduced sensitivity, etc.
| danielheath wrote:
| Repair is not rebuilding. "Repair" toothpaste chemically
| strengthens existing enamel.
| defaultname wrote:
| Fluoride strengthens enamel. Novamin remineralizes enamel. It
| "rebuilds" it. How Sensodyne markets it is largely
| irrelevant.
|
| Indeed, this product targets sensitivity which is exactly
| what Novamin does (by remineralizing those tiny holes
| permanently, versus traditional sensitivity products that
| simply "clog" them temporarily).
|
| Note that Novamin-containing Sensodyne is an overseas thing
| that you have to import. For whatever reason they didn't seek
| FDA approval in the US so the product there is sans it.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I asked my dentist about novamin after it trended on HN a few
| months ago.
|
| Apparently every toothpaste brand has a number of proprietary
| compounds that, according to their own research, is the biggest
| thing since flouride. Sensodyne has Novamin, I don't know the
| name of Colgates, but I am sure they list it on one of their
| websites.
|
| Why HN has taken to Novamin, I don't know. Maybe it is because
| it was taken off the American market?
|
| Anyway, it doesn't seem like Novamin makes a real difference:
|
| According to a 2020 literature review,
|
| > ... the objective of this review is to find out the current
| evidence available on the use of Novamin as an agent for
| remineralization.
|
| > ... and at 6 months' time point the p-value is 0.81
| concluding that there are no significant difference of
| remineralization process obtained by using traditional
| toothpaste and Novamin.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7068624/
| defaultname wrote:
| "Sensodyne has Novamin"
|
| There is nothing like Novamin among other toothpaste brands.
| Novamin has long existed as a bone regeneration treatment,
| with a very proven mode of action. The inventor spun it off
| and GSK bought the company and made it exclusive to
| Sensodyne. This isn't a company that made some fun name on a
| method of fluoride.
|
| It doesn't exist formally in the US (or at least it didn't)
| because FDA rules would make it fall under a medical
| treatment and a toothpaste isn't possibly worth the process
| and bureaucratic overhead.
|
| >Anyway, it doesn't seem like Novamin makes a real difference
|
| That is a study of studies, and its conclusion isn't that
| there is no "real difference", but that there is a need for
| more clinical trials, which is an _enormous_ difference.
|
| Because there is little demonstrated proof of Novamin
| specifically in regards to teeth. It is largely theoretical.
|
| But for what it's worth, I've used it for a bit over a year
| and now have zero sensitivity and my teeth are demonstratably
| much whiter. My own anecdotal experience is very positive,
| though maybe I'll have throat cancer or a third eye or
| something eventually.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| > but that there is a need for more clinical trials, which
| is an enormous difference.
|
| Almost twenty years after this compound was developed into
| toothpaste, the best we can show in peer reviewed research
| is "inconclusive" when it's used in toothpaste and you
| consider that a big win? I consider that "doesn't seem to
| make much of a difference".
|
| Maybe it's the novamin that helped you. Maybe it is one of
| the other compounds. Regular Sensodyne is a toothpaste for
| sensitive teeth, after all. Maybe you just started brushing
| more carefully. I did when I got my pack of "Sensodyne
| whitening repair & protect deep repair" toothpaste. That
| tube was almost double a regular Sensodyne, which is
| already an expensive brand.
| defaultname wrote:
| Big win? I didn't say that. Your original citation was an
| analysis of studies that actually said "more research is
| necessary", yet you claimed it as proof that it doesn't
| work. It doesn't work like that.
|
| Novamin is caught in a classic consumer product study
| quagmire. It's a proprietary, IP-wrapped solution. This
| leaves extraordinarily few people with an interest in
| proving its efficacy. Who is going to pay to study it?
| And the answer is that only people with a strong
| financial interest in its effectiveness are willing to
| study it, and those studies have little credibility due
| to bias.
|
| The vast majority of consumer products you use have no
| peer reviewed research behind them for the same reason.
|
| But we know its method of function, and the theory behind
| its operation. People using the product often find
| reduced sensitivity (I went from really bad sensitivity
| to no sensitivity) and a whitening effect. Eh, good
| enough for me.
|
| And it's interesting that this submission is about a
| product that has a virtually identical method of
| operation - calcium and phosphorous ions.
| pier25 wrote:
| I've used Sensodyne for years for sensitivity issues.
|
| Last year, I tried a new version with whitening and after a
| couple of weeks my teeth started hurting all day long. It took
| me a couple of days until I made the connection.
|
| I stopped using that and went back to what is being sold (here
| in Mexico) as Sensodyne Original.
| ALittleLight wrote:
| The fact that they've already tested this on extracted human
| teeth seems promising (I assume it worked there). Hopeful this
| works! Great advance, if so.
| benjaminwootton wrote:
| There really needs to be something like this. When we look back
| on dentistry in 50-100 years we will be amazed how barbaric it
| was! Ouch!
| nemo44x wrote:
| I think about this fairly often. When getting a root canal (it
| doesn't hurt!) it's sort of odd to see in this day and age the
| tools they use.
| monoideism wrote:
| > (it doesn't hurt!)
|
| It doesn't hurt for _you_. Some people, including myself,
| have had root canals that have almost caused worse pain than
| when I was in the ICU.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| > It doesn't hurt for you. Some people, including myself,
| have had root canals that have almost caused worse pain
| than when I was in the ICU.
|
| I am just going to have the tooth pulled. They argued
| either try to save it, or just have it taken out.
|
| I dread dentists, and especially endodontists/root canals.
|
| There are enough reports of severe pain and I want no part
| of it, unless I go the expensive sleep dentistry route.
| cableshaft wrote:
| I've had two root canals done with local anesthetic and
| no real problems. I was real nervous for the first one
| and went to a specialist and they used a lot of local
| anesthetic that I couldn't feel anything but a little
| pressure.
|
| But the second time I just had my doctor do it with his
| anesthetic, and it wasn't much worse than a filling for
| me. A little unpleasant but not unbearable.
|
| On the negative side, either that or some other dental
| work I had done close to the same time must have damaged
| a nerve and now I haven't been able to really taste
| anything in the front half of my tongue the past three
| years (still can on the back of my tongue, at least,
| thankfully).
| Invictus0 wrote:
| That's the parent's point: the tools and methods have
| changed so that now it no longer hurts.
| imglorp wrote:
| Even now, sometimes it does hurt, plenty. Local
| anesthesia can be somehow negated by bacterial infection,
| something involving the pH getting altered. My endo
| apologized but had to keep drilling to reach relief.
| dawnerd wrote:
| I had to suffer through one as well. They have me the max
| number of shots after being on antibiotics and the pain
| was still unbelievable. Worst part... the dentist messed
| up and the whole root canal was for nothing.
| monoideism wrote:
| This was 5 years ago. We're all different. Some people
| respond poorly to root canals, some feel moderate pain,
| some feel absolutely no pain.
|
| And to be clear, the pain has been _after_ my root canal,
| not during (even though ostensibly, the nerve is gone).
| My worst root canal was infected, but the endodontist
| claims that it usually doesn 't cause that much pain
| (perhaps, but not for some people).
|
| My mother and uncle have had the same issues. My father
| has never had issues.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| You don't ask for drugs? Ask for drugs. I always get Xanax
| and it basically puts me out through the whole thing. I
| have, err... had a lot of root canals.
|
| I'd think the bigger concern with a root canal is the not-
| insignificant likelihood they will break your jaw.
|
| Or not get the whole root out, causing an infection and
| need to get the procedure done again. (Never have a dentist
| do your root canal, folks)
| knicholes wrote:
| If not you dentist, then who would do the root canal?
| bruckie wrote:
| Typically an endodontist, at least in the U.S.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I generally don't need pain meds for dental stuff. But if
| I thought for a moment that I'd be feeling any pain at
| all, yes, give me all the meds. I'm not proud: given a
| choice between pain and no pain, I'll take the second
| option any day of the week. I know that some people have
| specific reasons for avoiding meds, but absent that, why
| put yourself through it? You don't get bonus points for
| suffering.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Yeah it took me decades to learn that the pain of getting a
| cavity filled isn't normal. I thought the freezing helped
| and that the ice pick jab causing lightning of pain down my
| spine was what everyone suffered.
|
| A dentist finally slowed down. Noticed my tears. Asked. Had
| a conversation. Tried freezing me in other places. Worked
| perfectly. She guessed that my nerves are anatomically
| weird.
| ornornor wrote:
| I was very surprised when I went to a dentist in Europe
| to fill a cavity: they don't freeze anything by default
| unless you really want. I thought I'd try without
| anesthesia and it turned out surprisingly bearable. Plus
| I didn't have half my face frozen for half a day.
| riffraff wrote:
| As a european who got dental care in two countries: I
| never heard of freezing at the dentist! What do they
| freeze exactly? How does it relate to anestesia?
|
| Medical care seems to have a lot of weird country-
| specific traditions, e.g. in Hungary it's apparently
| common to fill small kids' healthy teeth if the groves
| are too deep so they're simpler to clean and they don't
| get cavities.
|
| I had never heard of such a thing before moving here, and
| I genuinely can't tell if it's a brilliant innovation or
| an insane post-soviet tradition that needs to go away.
| ornornor wrote:
| They inject something in the gums that removes
| sensitivity there so you feel nothing, and then have half
| your face frozen for 4h afterwards because it acts on the
| nearby nerves that control your facial muscles.
|
| Having experienced both (frozen and not frozen), I can't
| tell what's better. The feeling when they're digging in
| the tooth without freezing isn't great but it's not
| painful either; the feeling when they put a needle in
| your gum to inject the product isn't great either but
| then you don't feel the procedure. I'd say it's different
| but equivalent in terms of discomfort.
| useryman wrote:
| > They inject something in the gums that removes
| sensitivity there so you feel nothing
|
| I've never heard this called "freezing". I assume you're
| being injected with lidocaine, the dentist's non-
| psychoactive best friend.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidocaine
|
| This family of molecules is well known for causing
| numbness in motor and sensor nerves;
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEI4qSrkPAs
| riffraff wrote:
| oh, that! I thought "freezing" referred to some actual
| cold-based treatment, thanks for clarifying.
| Sunspark wrote:
| Freezing is a local anaesthetic. It is a needle
| injection. Think lidocaine, that kind of thing. Better to
| go to an oral surgeon for more complicated work.
|
| Filling in grooves needs to go away. It will change the
| bite/shift the jaw which theoretically can lead to other
| problems. Not to mention, the grooves are there to help
| provide a grinding surface for vegetable matter, etc. If
| you make your teeth perfectly flat, they won't be as
| effective. Making your teeth flatter is actually
| reducing/damaging the effectiveness of your teeth. If it
| was a good idea herbivores would have teeth as flat as a
| tabletop.
|
| Where I live, as a kid my dentist filed the tips of my
| canines down a little. Why? Who knows, they weren't
| bothering me before. It was something that was decided
| upon without consulting me.
| tomcam wrote:
| I feel your pain, literally. No local anesthetic works at
| all for me. I need to be put under general anesthesia.
| Costs an extra $6000 or $7000.
| mattlondon wrote:
| I had the same for years, and eventually just said "get
| on with it" without any pain killers and basically just
| try to withstand the pain as much as possible.
|
| Eventually one dentist suggested trying the injection
| 15-20 mins before the filling started. I'd go in, get a
| jab, then go back out and wait while they saw another
| patient.
|
| Now there is _no_ pain at all. I could literally fall
| asleep in the chair. What a difference.
| tomcam wrote:
| Very cool! Doesn't work for me.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >Costs an extra $6000 or $7000.
|
| I'd find that more painful than the treatment.
| tomcam wrote:
| Worth it to me. Dental pain is incredibly rough for me.
| Not sure why. And I have lots of experience with high
| levels of pain.
| RyJones wrote:
| I'm with you. Cross innervation[0] is hell!
|
| [0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11505257/
| Frost1x wrote:
| I used to work with a few orthopedic surgeons over a couple
| years and discovered a lot of the tools used during surgery
| for bones or hard materials in the body really aren't all
| that different than what you'd find at a hardware store.
|
| Usually tools are a bit more precise, materials are a bit
| more stringently regulated, and everything is typically well
| sterilized but when it comes to the physical mechanics,
| they're about the same. Drills, saws, hammers, all that good
| stuff.
|
| The main difference is you're usually not watching it for a
| variety of reasons unlike many dental procedures. And the
| tools are in the hands of a literal surgeon.
| Fomite wrote:
| Weirdly, knowing this has helped me. My mind can _imagine_
| all kinds of horrific things happening with the sound and
| feeling of dental tools, so it 's rather reassuring to be
| "Oh, yeah, that's what a glorified Dremel would sound
| like."
| useryman wrote:
| Also, knowing why all of the power tools are pneumatic,
| rather than any other kind of power helps. They need to
| be small, and stay cooled well.
| xyzzy123 wrote:
| I have a friend who needed a major extraction at the panicky
| start of COVID, in Australia. The dentists weren't allowed to
| use drills. I'm not sure why but something to do with
| aerosolizing.
|
| It turns out the things dentists use when they're not allowed
| to use drills are _chisels_.
| nemo44x wrote:
| There are electronic files today for root canals but I had
| an endodontist once that still used a series of hand files.
| So weird to think about.
| jessaustin wrote:
| Most extractions are done without drilling. That's really
| only necessary when the tooth needs to be sectioned, or if
| there is a bony impaction. Usually a bit of movement with
| forceps or elevators is all that's required.
|
| But yeah, sectioning a tooth with chisels sounds pretty
| bad. I think I would try to avoid that situation. I'm not
| sure why a dentist would even _have_ an instrument that
| could be described as a "chisel".
| rsync wrote:
| "When we look back on dentistry in 50-100 years we will be
| amazed how barbaric it was!"
|
| Nothing will eclipse the barbarism and "effectiveness" of
| spinal disc treatments such as spinal fusions.
| catillac wrote:
| I'm unfamiliar with this topic, what do you mean? I thought
| spinal fusion was just a medical procedure to connect a
| couple vertebrae for some reason, but I thought the downside
| was a little less flexibility. I wasn't tracking it being
| especially barbaric.
| fmsf wrote:
| This sounds very similar to the toothpaste and dental products
| with polypeptides that these guys do
| https://www.credentis.com/en/publications/ (edit: replace link of
| products with publications)
| Giorgi wrote:
| Nope, that would be same old Xylitol
| JWoolfenden wrote:
| This hasn't even started trials, so its as good as my cousin
| freds snakeoil potice.
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