[HN Gopher] On Smoking ___________________________________________________________________ On Smoking Author : exolymph Score : 114 points Date : 2021-05-31 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago) (HTM) web link (annagat.substack.com) (TXT) w3m dump (annagat.substack.com) | lwhi wrote: | I'm still smoking at the moment. | | I've quit for years and started again. | | It's the push and pull .. the need and that satiation that I find | so satisfying, and to a certain extent it's that rhythm I find | ultimately attractive. | | The slow build up of a hunger, before you end it with a delicious | meal. The relaxing bath after a 30 mile hike. The 10 hour sleep | after a stressful few days running on caffeine. The buzz of | endorphins after breaking through the pain barrier on a run. | | Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a junky at heart. But I would like to | stop smoking. | Torwald wrote: | Allen Carr's Easy way out. It's a book. He explains the mind | hack that smoking is. Once you grok that, quitting is easy. | ciconeniba2 wrote: | I have been a smoker for over 20 years as well, I think it was | hard at first to quit smoking but I agree with the author | article, something changes in you. | | Every now and then I feel like I want to smoke and I buy a pack | of cigarette, I smoke chain a couple of them and figure out I | don't really like it and don't want to do that anymore and I | don't get the urge anymore for four month or six... | | I have been doing this for the last five years or so, maybe i | didn't quit fully but I don't do a pack and half every day or | have to wake up mid night to have a smoke anymore. | chippy wrote: | I started vaping around the same time as the first lockdown. I | never enjoyed it really and it kind of actually hurt my lungs a | couple of times. I stopped. Break until next lockdown. I started | smoking a tobacco pipe. Maybe 1 bowl every 3 days. More | meditative, lasts around 40 mins, with the geeky hobby of | different flavours, blends, techniques. It's also less nicotine | and because there's no inhalation, much less worse. But it feels | good and much more "right" than vaping or smoking like an | addicted monkey. | | I never got into smoking cigars, they seem to last way longer and | be more powerful. Like being forced to drink 10 espressos over | the space of 20 minutes. | dageshi wrote: | Cigars aren't a million miles away from pipe tobacco, you don't | inhale them either (some do, but they're lunatics). Larger | sizes will probably take an hour, the largest closer to two. | Power wise, it very much depends on the cigar, some are very | mild, some very powerful, but my personal experience is that | much like pipes they aren't addictive for most people, I smoke | 2-3 a week in the summer when the weather is nice. | [deleted] | gerdesj wrote: | I gave up just over three years ago. It was bloody hard. I came | up with a couple of things to say to myself if I wanted a fag. I | used them as mantras as soon as I wanted a drag. | | I came up with "I don't want to die" and "I don't want to smell". | | I also made targets - 1 day, 2, 4, week. Fortnight. Month. etc (I | will never go back ...) | | If you want to give up you can but it is bloody hard | [deleted] | werber wrote: | I quit smoking when I got COVID because it was the first time I | was too sick to smoke. I've tried to smoke since and it just | tastes awful. I know this might be crude to say but I'm thankful | for having had the virus | k__ wrote: | I knew a bunch of people who started smoking menthol because of | sickness. | the_only_law wrote: | For me, menthols never seemed to sit well on my stomach. | jessriedel wrote: | > too embarrassed of chewing-gums | | In case others don't know, there are nicotine lozenges that are | smaller than the gum and require no chewing. And if you happen to | swallow them nothing happens, the nicotine is destroyed by your | stomachs without being absorbed. They are really very discreet to | use. | | (Even the gum isn't actually chewed like regular gum; you just | chew it for a few seconds and let it sit on your gum.) | augusto-moura wrote: | I think that she means chewing gum to mask off the breath. I'm | a smoker and do that very often, it's kinda rude to speak to | other people while having a breath of thousand cigarrettes | dingo454 wrote: | That hardly masks anything TBH. You smell the same with some | hint of mint on top. Most of the smell comes from your lungs, | your clothing and your hair. You need to stay outside for a | good 10 minutes to make a significant difference in perceived | smell. Anything else is mostly wishful thinking... | augusto-moura wrote: | It does make a difference, even so slightly. Trust me in | that one, I have been called off more than one time by not | using mints. But yeah, I agree that it doesn't remove the | stench completely | dingo454 wrote: | I generally never comment on this to my coworkers because | I want to be polite and keep good relationships (I've had | very hard responses to very polite requests just to open | the windows in the past, so I simply stopped commenting). | | I'm doing this here because I'm seeing this often, and I | want to be honest: no, it doesn't really do much, unless | we're talking about ~50cm face-to-face conversations | maybe (something that would make me back-off quite | sharply, gum or not). | | Keep in mind the smell after 10 minutes of open-air | ventilation is still not a smell I would consider | acceptable. For consideration, a very nasty and strong | office fart would be in the same line of stench for my | nose at that point. Except a fart doesn't tend to cling | on for so long. | | Sorry for the analogy :( | pengaru wrote: | It's also worth noting nicotine has interesting "nootropic" | properties. You don't really have to quit your addiction to | quit smoking, and there can be some advantages to continuing if | you can afford it in safer forms. | greenshackle2 wrote: | I got myself addicted to nicotine gum and I never even | smoked. To the point that I was _constantly_ using it. Going | through maybe 10-15 2mg gums per day. I used patches and | regular non-nicotine gum to quit but I still have the urge, | especially when I have difficulty focusing at work, because | it does actually seem to help with that. | motohagiography wrote: | It is a suprisingly powerful drug. I gave up cigarettes over | 20 years ago and have zero craving for them, the smell is | revolting. Looking back, the craving felt a lot like fasting. | However today, I have a cigar a little more than once a month | on average, and I can tell the nicotine content affects mood, | sleep, and maybe some hormone levels for a day or two after, | as much or moreso than most prescriptions I've ever taken. | There is extra focus and centeredness under its influence and | a kind of diminished neuroticism, which I suppose was what | made it "cool." There are other factors on that as well, | since who today has an hour of uninterrupted solitude (let | alone in good company) to sit and do nothing but contemplate, | with the space of your own to temporarily pollute, and afford | to spend the kind of money on yourself that a good one costs. | It would be hard to separate this mini-vacation from the | percieved smart drug effects of nicotine. Cigarettes are evil | and cruel in every concievable way, and anyone under their | yoke who breaks it deserves support. | | Fan of OP's interintellect startup as well. | dageshi wrote: | Nicotine seems to vary depending on the delivery mechanism. | Cigar (not inhaled) do not seem to be addictive at all for | most who use them, more of a hobby. I've used the little | Swedish "packets" you slip under your top lip and those are | like a habit that's hard to break while you have a supply, | they become part of your daily routine but I've never had any | withdrawal symptoms from them. | | Cigarettes by all accounts seem addictive as fuck, I did have | one when I was younger, desperately wanted another for about | 2 days afterwards, after that the craving subsided I never | had another one since. | snusthrowaway wrote: | Conversely, I have never had any urge for cigarettes. | Occasionally, I crave for cigars. Snus, however, I crave | roughly daily despite stopping around 6 months ago. During | lockdowns my nicotine use via snus got a bit out of hand -- | at the peak I spent roughly a puck a day (so like 20x | pouches of maybe 14mg nicotine a day). I usually stayed up | two days straight and slept for the third. Once I woke up, | I could not get out of the bed without one. Once I stopped | using when I ran out, I had headaches which felt like they | crushed my head and put the world spinning. This continued | for maybe 3 days. After 3 months of discontinued use, I | tried one of the stronger snus brands while intoxicated -- | the ones I would not given a second thought while at my | peaks -- I became so overwhelmed in a matter of a dozen | seconds that I could not walk, and had to lie down and | avoid puking on the spot. | | And despite stopping, I now have this clear cavity on my | right side of mouth with the gums clearly redacted. I only | spent snus heavily for roughly three months (which probably | masqueraded depression or lack of motivation), albeit, | during that time almost at all times and occasionally with | multiple pouches. | | Overall, I have done coffee at great amounts, tried | amphetamines and ephedrine, cannabis in most of its forms, | some benzos, and self-medicated myself with alcohol, and I | must say the physical withdrawals for me have been worst | with nicotine, with only benzos taking the lead on the | physiological toplist. | bitcuration wrote: | has vaping been out of question? | alea_iacta_est wrote: | Don't be like me and end up addicted to the lozenges... Still | using them after 5 years since I quit smoking. | staticautomatic wrote: | Better than being addicted to cigarettes though. | alea_iacta_est wrote: | Yes, definitely, even if they're not perfect, they can give | you some stomach ache, bloating, mouth sores, etc, but | overall, I don't regret the trade. | xzel wrote: | Tobacco free snus like pouches have exploded in the US the past | two years. I quit smoking about a year and a half ago by | switching to them. I'm not sure if they're cooler or less cool | than gum but it's pretty great not smoking. I'd recommend | anyone trying to quit to look into them as a possibility. | varjag wrote: | I quit after some 15 years of smoking. Not experiencing any | cravings at this point. On the onset of COVID I even bought | multiple packs to experiment with using the filters in 3D printed | nasal breathers - didn't even want to light one. | | However I wouldn't have bothered quitting had it not been long | term health hazard. I quite enjoyed the routine. | murat131 wrote: | The thing about smoking is that when you quit smoking you quit it | every day. Imagine a light switch on the wall. You turn it off by | quitting smoking and you can always go back at a desperate time | for instance and turn it on. And some time later off again. | Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on your | mind and you can't make it go away. Since you know how it makes | you feel good when the switch is on, you at some level desire to | back to it. Whole idea of quitting smoking is then finding ways | to stop yourself from turning it on again and this is true until | you die. So do yourself a favor and avoid any substance that | creates such light switches in your mind. | | Edit: Of course this is not the case for 100% of humans. Everyone | is different. Some weak some strong in willpower, discipline, | etc. But we can all agree that it is an addiction that sucks life | out of you slowly. You wouldn't want to test your willpower your | whole life against such a sneaky enemy. | globular-toast wrote: | This isn't the same for everyone and it nothing to do with | willpower or discipline. My grandparents smoked for roughly 50 | years before my grandfather's health deteriorated to the extent | he was diagnosed with emphysema and admitted to hospital. My | grandmother immediately disposed of all cigarettes and lighters | in the house. Neither of them ever smoked again. | | My grandfather lived for a few more years as his health | declined further. About two years after his last cigarette he | confided in me that not a day goes past where he doesn't crave | a cigarette. But he never asked for one. He never caved. | | My grandmother had a fairly strong physical reaction to | quitting initially. She was shocked when her doctor told her | the shaking was due to physical withdrawal. She said she felt | no different to a heroin addict. But after this physical shock | subsided, that was it. She never craved a cigarette again. | What's more, she became disgusted by the smell of cigarette | smoke encountered in public. It was simply gone from her life. | | The difference here is in the psychologically addictive element | of cigarettes. Both grandparents had the same physical | addiction, but that's nothing. Anyone can overcome that. But | the psychological element seemingly ranges from non-existent to | unstoppable. | | I have experienced the psychologically addictive nature of | cigarettes myself, even though I've never smoked. A friend | bought some cheap disposable, nicotine-free, e-cigarettes and | gave me one. Initially I was going to take it apart and see how | it worked. But I tried it, of course. Then I tried it again. | And again. There's something about it. Suck through the little | pipe. Fill your lungs. See it glow. Exhale the vapour/smoke. My | usage was exponential, until it ran out. I immediately | considered buying another one. Then I caught myself. I had | become addicted to this thing. It's that easy. | blairbeckwith wrote: | I _sort of_ agree with this, but I do know lots of people - | myself to a certain extent - that have had success with mild | re-programming, via Allen Carr 's Easy Way method[0]. I'm not | the type to buy in to this kind of thing, but it did help me | quit when nothing else did, and I never felt this sense of | longing for something. Nobody else I've known that has had | success with that method did either. | | I also think it's really unhelpful to talk about quitting | smoking in such hopeless terms. If I was still a smoker, being | told I was inevitably going to be craving cigarettes for the | rest of my life might almost convince me not to quit at all. | | It doesn't have to be this way. | | [0] https://www.allencarr.com | falcor84 wrote: | >... and I never felt this sense of longing for something. | Nobody else I've known that has had success with that method | did either. | | Isn't that tautological? | blairbeckwith wrote: | Maybe? I'm not sure? It's a fairly throw away comment, I | didn't send it to my editor to check for logical | consistency or style advice. | version_five wrote: | I should mention (because I posted a hopeless sounding post | below and didn't consider how it could come across), I quit | smoking by taking up running. It was not a switch, I started | running as exercise while a still smoked, without even | considering quitting. Obviously the habits are at odds, but | less than you'd think (I was in my early 30s, smoked about 15 | years). | | At some point, I had an established new hobby i enjoyed | (running), i knew that smoking was holding me back, and i had | a partial coping mechanism for dealing with craving and | depression that comes with stopping. | | 10 years later, I still run, and I'm still happy with the | tradeoff on my level of fitness, which is something that | helps remind me of why I stopped when I have a craving. | | (I know a lot of people don't like running, but my takeaway I | think is that it's better to focus on a new hobby / habit and | establish new patterns while still smoking and then try and | quit, vs just stopping and then trying to fill the void | after). I hope this makes it sound less hopeless. | josephcsible wrote: | > I also think it's really unhelpful to talk about quitting | smoking in such hopeless terms. If I was still a smoker, | being told I was inevitably going to be craving cigarettes | for the rest of my life might almost convince me not to quit | at all. | | I think the post was directed at non-smokers, to scare them | into not starting to smoke. | whereis wrote: | I smoked for ten years. Took Chantix for a week about fifteen | years ago, which increased the frequency and intensity of my | suicidal ideations. I then quit for good, with help from the | Carr book, about a year thereafter. | | Quitting was horrible, but it got better. Now, the thought of | smoking a cigarette is repulsive. Zero cravings, and the smell | is highly offensive now. | | There's no light switch. | | YMMV. | developer2 wrote: | I'm very thankful for Varenecline (aka Chantix/Champix); it's | what got me to quit after many years of pack-a-day. I didn't | even set a quit date when I started. That drug took away | every tiny ounce of satisfaction I ever got from smoking. | Every cigarette became a cigarette that did not give me what | a cigarette is expected to provide. The best way I can | describe what happened to me is that I felt like a non-smoker | trying to smoke, and all I got was the scent and flavour of | licking an ashtray with none of the brain-altering effects. | | It's been over a year now, and I can't imagine going back. | The _only_ trigger I have is seeing someone else smoke, and | even then it has never been more than a fleeting thought that | dissipates within seconds. I know exactly what 2-3 puffs | would do to me, and I have no interest in going back. I 've | never had the urge to buy a pack myself or to bum off | someone. Smoking is now well into my past, and for that I am | thankful. | | I got the well-known "nightmares" from Verenecline, but I | actually really enjoyed them. Those dreams were some of the | most vivid and intense I've ever had the joy to experience. | In fact, I still have the last 50 1mg pills leftover that I | didn't need to use, and I've only kept them because I know | I'll eventually use them just to revisit that kind of dream | state. :) | 1_player wrote: | Telling yourself there is no light switch in you, that you | are stronger or better equipped than others, is a dangerous | way to eventual relapse. Though for your own sake I really | hope I am wrong. | [deleted] | [deleted] | whereis wrote: | Good sir, I regret to inform you that your assessment of my | situation contains incorrect assertions based upon false | premises, as I've made no such statement about my relative | strength or equipment. I further regret to inform you that | I've since been in the presence of smokers and cigarettes, | through which no cravings arose. | | Sir, I further regret to inform you that I've accidentally | inhaled tobacco in recent years when being passed a | (REDACTED BASED ON FEDERAL CANNABIS LAWS) that, unknown to | me, had tobacco mixed in. I coughed, was disgusted, and had | zero cravings for tobacco thereafter. | | As such, there is no risk of relapse. | | I do believe that my short stint consuming Chantix may have | permanently rewired my brain's reaction to cigarettes. | [deleted] | rabidrat wrote: | I was a half-pack-a-day smoker for about 10 years, quit several | times (once for several months), and the only thing that | "worked" ultimately was realizing that I simply could never | have another cigarette. After the physical cravings subsided, I | still had frequent longings for that wonderfully ubiquitous way | to 'fix' my internal itchiness/discomfort, but I had made such | a commitment that I would have literal nightmares in which I | smoked a cigarette--and then woke up in a panic, similar to | dreams where I found out I'd accidentally killed someone and | was debating whether to turn myself in or go on the lam. | | Then one evening about 10 years later I was at a festival | wandering around and I had this desire in my brain for | something, I didn't know what, and it was a few _hours_ later | that I realized the thing I really wanted was a cigarette. It | was that night that I changed my internal conception of myself | from "ex-smoker" to "non-smoker". I don't have cravings any | more for cigarettes, though there is a certain pang, I guess I | would call it "nostalgia", and maybe it includes "envy" of | people who can smoke a cigarette/cigar socially at an event and | then not think about it again for years. Occasionally I will | have accidental contact with nicotine (like buying a joint on | vacation and getting a weird taste while smoking it and | realizing half-way through that it's actually a spliff), and | for a few days or a week afterward the light switch is again | visible in my mind--though I'm thankfully not tempted to flip | it. I wonder in those times whether a never-smoker who has a | cigar once does have the same cravings in the days after, but | doesn't recognize them as such. | | So at least for me, who admittedly was never a heavy smoker, it | doesn't resonate that I will struggle with this addiction until | I die. The only apparent lasting (mental) consequences are that | I have to consciously refuse nicotine even when it would be a | legitimately fun and interesting experience (like when I was | offered some fancy snuff at a party which everyone else got to | enjoy). And when I see someone smoking a cigarette I might get | the nostalgia or envy I mentioned above. But when I get within | smelling distance it's just foul and unappealing. | | Best wishes for anyone who's thinking of or trying to quit. | unixhero wrote: | I quit smoking, and it was very very hard. I don't agree with | you that the addiction, need and nicotine + other triggers will | remain with me until the end of time. | | Deprogramming is part of the process of quitting to smoke. I do | now never want to smoke. It is not attractive to me as a way to | relax or focus. I can stand in a tobacco section of an airport | taxfree shop holding a 5 cartons in my hands with absolutely no | desire to smoke. Likewise for being around other people who | smoke. There is no creeping need, no urge. | | The deprogramming comes last. When it came around for me, it | was gradual but it did definitely come. There is no way, not a | chance in the world that I would somehow "relapse". It just is | not interesting to me any more. | | EDIT: *On slaying the dragon* | | I want to add the timeframes, which could be useful as | anecdotal data. | | It took me 9 months after my last cigarette to get rid of the | "critical urges". Then after that it took another 12 months to | get rid of the sweet itch I would get. After that period it was | gone completely, and I mean absolutely completely. It was an | exorcism. To anyone trying to quit smoking; know this, if you | fight through it, it all does go away. | dimmke wrote: | I agree. I quit smoking back in 2016 and I don't think of | myself as a smoker at all anymore. I sometimes have to remind | myself I used to smoke. | warent wrote: | This is my experience as well, and I can still occasionally | have a cigar or hookah on special occasions a couple times | a year without any problems. Then again I only smoked about | 1/3rd of a pack a day for about 3 years, so maybe the | addiction levels also depend on the quantity and the length | of time | mavhc wrote: | Why do people start smoking? Surely they know it's | addictive, expensive, and bad for you | [deleted] | warent wrote: | I started because I thought it made me look really cool. | Plus menthols tasted great | magneticnorth wrote: | There's a pleasant mild buzz you get before your | tolerance builds up. | smitty1110 wrote: | For me it was something I did with co-workers, and | eventually at home, to de-stress. I was in a terrible | place mentally, physically, and from a career perspective | at the time, but it helped me feel like I wasn't going to | suffocate from stress. I got my life together after that, | but it so bad at the time that taking half an hour to | smoke a cigar in the evening was a godsend. | TchoBeer wrote: | Alcohol is also addictive expensive and bad for you, and | yet no one asks why anyone would drink alcohol | defaultname wrote: | Smoking is magnitudes more addictive than alcohol. | Regardless, a lot of people _do_ ask why anyone would | drink alcohol, given that it offers up an enormous array | of detrimental health effects, the possibility of | addiction and social troubles (DUI, violence, etc), and | as a mental "holiday" altered state is an incredibly | poor mechanism. | | Alcohol hangs around because it was accessible in earlier | eras. There will come a time, I suspect in the very near | future, when it will look ridiculous. Where having a | `drink' will be an anachronism. | nine_k wrote: | To get physiologically addicted to alcohol, one has to | drink heavily every day for a year or so. Few people, | especially people with college education, do that. One | can drink a glass of wine or a cocktail every weekend for | life, and form no addiction at all. Such a person can go | dry for weeks or months, without any adverse effects. | | Nicotine forms a physiological addiction much faster, and | then the addict has to have a fix daily, several times. | So the exposure to nicotine (which is mildly toxic in the | quantities needed) and smoke (which is way more | dangerous, and hits the lungs directly) is much more | intense and sustained. | namenotrequired wrote: | The addiction likelihood of alcohol is much smaller. | Nowhere near tobacco's ~100% | [deleted] | nyolfen wrote: | it's a pleasant social activity when you're young; you | have a ritual you perform together and share informal | bonding time. smoking also gives a physical sense of | relief once you're addicted to it and it gives you | something to punctuate your day with, little benchmarks | -- i will finish writing these emails so i can have a | cigarette, etc. | | i smoked for 8 years then switched to vaping. i don't | want to vape for the rest of my life, but there was an | obvious difference in my fitness as soon as i quit (e.g. | being able to run twice as far without stopping). i also | smell better and my teeth are whiter. i'm glad that i | switched, but it doesn't share the same ritual feeling | when you can just pull a drag at any arbitrary time. | sharpneli wrote: | As a teenager one doesn't really think the things you | mentioned. And it was cool. | | Source: Me. Smoked for 15 years. Stopped 6 years ago. | watwut wrote: | I stopped smoking over 10 years ago and still want to smoke | regularly. Often in situations where there are no cigarettes | available | hayst4ck wrote: | Have you had any major stress events in your life since | quitting? | | I quit something myself and have felt much the same way, but | I eventually had a string of very stressful events in my life | that resulted in me seeking comfort in my old addiction. | enneff wrote: | A big part of my process for quitting was associating smoking | with feeling disgusting and sick instead of feeling relaxed | (which was never true anyway). For me it was more like | reprogramming than deprogramming. But in broad strokes my | experience was similar to yours. | Jimmc414 wrote: | Same here. I started in my teens and eventually quit in my | thirties. It was so difficult I'm still surprised I was | actually able to finally quit. Each time I walked into the | office in the morning and at lunch I had to walk through | the gauntlet of smokers and the mantra I repeated to myself | to resist was, "That is what death smells like" It didn't | take that long (months) before I found that familiar sweet | smell very distasteful. | [deleted] | dominotw wrote: | don't try drugs because you might just like it. | agumonkey wrote: | do you do the diversification trick ? smoking less and finding | something else to absorb / massage your mind instead ? so you | can find another switch to flick | CraigJPerry wrote: | Anecdata but that's not how it worked for me. I was "20 a day" | (which means 30 a day but that wasn't socially acceptable to | admit) for 4 years, 3.5 of which were spent trying to give up. | The only 3 days i didn't smoke in that time were when i had a | horribly bad septic throat due to some infection and physically | couldn't smoke. | | Patches, lozenges, gums, the little ball tablet things, herbal | cigs, e-cig - not the current vape kind, the early 2000s fake | cig kind, will power exercises, social support group, pay into | my piggy bank to smoke each cig ... you get the idea but | nothing worked for me and i tried everything on the market. | | The problem wasn't just that i enjoyed smoking, i was actually | born to be a smoker. I say that because other people, even most | smokers, hate passive cig smoke to varying degrees but i always | loved it from a young age, like really loved being near someone | smoking, the smell of a cig being smoked just smelled great. | Stale smoke didn't, i hated that like everyone else. | | And then i gave up, in one day, and my feeling has never | changed since. You couldn't pay me to smoke, it'd be like | paying someone to drink petrol, there's just no one would do | that, it's an absurd idea. | | I don't mind being near smokers, i don't enjoy the smell | anymore but I'm not repulsed either. I never consider them, | it's just not a part of my identity. I'm not a smoker. | | The difference is subtle, is that i don't have to smoke | anymore. When i was a smoker i had to smoke but today I don't. | | Allen Carr's Easyway book. I don't mind admitting i actually | cried reading it. 3.5 years of misery solved painlessly with | zero effort. I couldn't believe how easy it was to quit, after | all the crap i had been through. | OrbitRock wrote: | Same here. I was a heavy smoker who struggled terribly to | quit. | | But once I quit, well, your "pay me to drink petrol" analogy | is accurate. Its been this way for about 10 years now. I just | don't smoke, it's now repulsive to me, and there's almost no | conceivable way for me to go back to it other than putting | myself through the punishment of the early smoker again where | it's just disgusting and doesn't feel good at all for several | weeks. | 1auralynn wrote: | It was physically hard for a couple months while my brain | reprogrammed to run without nicotine (i.e. I was pretty | slow/stupid for a while) and once in a while I get an urge | (maybe every couple months?), but it's not severe enough that | I'm in any danger of ever smoking again. Quit over 10 yrs ago. | Others mentioned Allen Carr/Easy Way method, and that was | definitely a part of putting smoking in context as just a | physical addiction. | | As long as you're able to separate yourself from the narrative | of "I'm a smoker" and just let go the big dramatic story about | how it's hard and you're going to fail then it's relatively | easy to just deal with the physical symptoms of | withdrawal/craving. I have a strict "no nicotine" policy and it | makes it super easy because I never have to wrestle with | decisions about whether I'm going to smoke/vape/whatever, the | decision is already made. | 1auralynn wrote: | Oh and I was definitely smoking a pack a day+ for most of my | 20's. Quit when I was 30. | peoplefromibiza wrote: | I think Hodgkinson in "How to be idle" nailed it. | | Smoking is one of the few things that changes your status by | simply doing it: from being a John Doe you become a smoker. | | <<The smoker simultaneously injects and excuses idleness in his | life with every cigarette>> | | <<Many idlers love to smoke. It gives us something to do when | we're not doing anything.>> | | As a smoker who quit several times over the past 20 years and | went from few cigarettes a week to 20 a day, back to 1 or 2 and | then 20 again after the lockdown, I think the real threat is | not the physical need, that is really easy to overcome, a few | days and it's gone. | | It's the idea of losing your status and missing the habit of | being that kind of person that is really, really hard to win. | | But it really sucks, we all know it, it's probably the most | stupid thing a person can do, but we still fall for it. | gnulinux wrote: | I am absolutely not like this. I smoked a few times in high | school >10 years ago, because I'm from a country basically | everyone smokes. I didn't have the need or want to have | another cigarette after high school because it wasn't as | socially acceptable in communities I lived in. So I lost the | interest. I never found it hard, nor ever found myself | appealed to cigarettes after high school. | [deleted] | notdang wrote: | I smoked for many years, then one day just quit smoking, | without any reason. | | Did not smoke for more than 10 years, until a major disaster | hit my life and I started to heavily smoke again. | | So yes, it seems that there is a switch. | 9dev wrote: | Oof. I'm in the same boat as your younger self, but two years | in. I simply slept bad one night, thinking to myself that I | love life way too much to actively work on a sooner death | than necessary. Next day I quit, never looking back. I can | drink without even thinking about it. | | I just hope disaster won't strike me, or hit me as heavy, as | it did you. | | I hope things have turned to the better for you! | mdoms wrote: | I smoked for 10 years and quitting was difficult (but not THAT | difficult - don't even get me started on the "it's harder than | quitting heroin" nonsense). But now, 9 years since quitting, I | don't even think about it anymore. It doesn't follow me around, | I don't constantly fight the urge to smoke. I'm not "always" an | addict. It's gone. It's in my past. | qayxc wrote: | > don't even get me started on the "it's harder than quitting | heroin" nonsense) | | Out of curiosity: did you try both to know that for fact? | augusto-moura wrote: | It really depends, my old man smoked for like 20~ years and now | he doesn't even remembers that he used to smoke like 1 box a | day, only when someone else points it out | Cyril_HN wrote: | I gotta say, smoking has not been an addiction for me. After a | year of smoking, I quit. I realised I literally didn't get | enjoyment from it anymore. 6 years later, here I am, having | tasted a cigar just to experience it and otherwise having never | thought about tobacco or had urges. | | I don't think smoking is always addictive. But, given that it | is for almost everyone, I'm utterly fascinated why it wasn't | for me. | isoprophlex wrote: | I don't even smoke. Never have in any capacity. I purchased a | single pack once as a teenager, and gave most of it away. | | But from the stray cigarettes bummed off friends in a drunken | mood, or that time smoking hookah till i puked... I have that | light switch now. | | You gave a VERY apt description of nicotine. | johntfella wrote: | I was lucky when I tried my first cigarette in that it just | didn't do anything for me. Later I would try cigars on drunk | evenings with friends. I enjoyed the smell just never really | understood what it was suppose to do. Always wondered about | that, maybe just like how covid hits some people really hard | perhaps smoking is the same. | alksjdalkj wrote: | This is such a perfect description. I quit years ago but still | whenever I see someone smoking I get a craving and when I'm | stressed I find myself wishing for a cigarette. I've accepted | that it's just something that'll be with me the rest of my | life. | | Seriously, don't start smoking. It's a mistake that you really | can't undo. | 1_player wrote: | I think the "light switch" paradigm works for any drug with | very strong addiction potential. Don't even consider doing | heroin or nicotine. Cocaine _very_ carefully if you really | have to. | | Though to be honest nicotine is one of the hardest ones for | the simple fact that it's so widespread. You can't really | avoid it if your friends smoke or if it's still cool to smoke | on TV (i.e. Mad Men). You don't go to a rehab or join a | support group and call your sponsor whenever you feel you'd | go for one, you'll be on your own. Thankfully it's getting | easier and easier these days when it's not socially | acceptable to smoke anymore, but still, quitting nicotine is | one of the 3 hardest things you'll ever do in your life. | hannofcart wrote: | Just curious as to what the urge two 'hardest things' are. | Could you elaborate? | 1_player wrote: | I have no idea. I'm just saying that quitting smoking | will be one of those three. Probably not the hardest, but | it's up there. FWIW it's the hardest thing I've done in | my 34 years of age, it's taken me 10+ years to quit, I'm | now 1.5 years nicotine free and I will have to be | vigilant for the rest of my life. | [deleted] | mrtksn wrote: | I quit a few years ago and never looked back, even made a pet | app for quitting smoking as I was learning iOS development. | Check it out, recently switched from UIKit to SwiftUI: | https://apps.apple.com/app/id1459979131 | | When I was quitting smoking I found 2 things useful: | | 1) Alan Carr's book, which in essence is designed to convince | you that you actually don't enjoy smoking. I completely agree, | when I first started it gave me the sensation, then I had to | smoke every half an hour just to stay functional. | | 2) The cigarette prices. There was no way I can sustain smoking | when first move to London. A pack of cigarettes was the same as | my food budged. | | So, I just quit as a chain smoker. It was bad for a week but I | kept observing myself and surely Alan Carr was right. I wasn't | getting any boost from the nicotine, I was simply getting rid | of the cravings for a brief period of time. In a month all the | cravings disappears, in less than a year I had no desire to | smoke even among people who are smoking. These days the | cigarette smoke is simply something I try to avoid when | exposed. | | This was not my first time to quit but on the previous | occasions I had the wrong mental model. I was thinking of it as | stopping doing something that I enjoy, like quitting | chocolates. In less than a day it would have turned into | torture. | | Just observe yourself to see if smoking actually gives you any | pleasure or does smoking simply make you functional again. Then | remember that non-smokers are functional without the cigarettes | and their clothes and hands don't smell horrible. | | Notice that there's no boost once you get addicted, it's more | like removing tight shoes when your smoke break comes. Would | you wear tight shoes only to experience the pleasure of | removing them? | | Everything gets so much better once you quit. You remember that | the streets have a scent, the weather has scent. Just take note | on yourself and there's no way going back to smoking, it's just | a tremendously bad deal. | version_five wrote: | Agreed. The article mentions becoming a new person - for me, | it's different, I'm still a smoker, I just don't smoke anymore. | I quit 10 years ago, and I won't start again, but I still want | to smoke every day. | | I rarely see this discussed when people talk about addiction. | You can't un-ring the bell so to speak, and once you know you | can do something you enjoy, you don't just forget about it. The | cliche of the addict tied to the bed for a few weeks and then | back to normal is not my experience at all. Acute withdrawal is | easy compared to the hole that is left in your life. And I'm | just talking about cigarettes, happily i never got involved | with anything even more addictive. | Cederfjard wrote: | I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, tobacco | (especially cigarettes) are up there with the most addictive | substances. Like, competing with cocaine and heroin. | Obviously since the mind-altering effects are much more | subtle, and it's legal, it's less disruptive (at least until | it gets you sick). | AlexandrB wrote: | I once had a very bad night and chain smoked 3-4 cigarettes. | Since then I've never experienced the "light switch" you | describe. The experience of smoking was not unpleasant, but not | something I crave either. My sister seems to be the same way | and smokes a few cigarettes once every few years when things | are particularly stressful but never habitually. | | I wonder if there are physiological differences that account | for this difference of experience. | mason55 wrote: | There does seem to be some kind of difference in people, | which isn't surprising. Things like alcoholism also seem to | have a genetic component. | | Anecdotally, my wife and I both quit smoking. Many years | later she still has the desire every day whereas I go months | without thinking about it (and if cigarettes weren't common | in society I'd probably never think about them again, let | alone have a desire to smoke one) | YarickR2 wrote: | Well, it's probably like this for some, and totally different | for others. I smoked for ten+ years, a pack a day, and quit | cold turkey in three days, and don't miss it any tiny little | bit. Light switch was ripped off the wall, and the place it had | been hanging (nice easily reachable convenient place) has been | levelled off, painted clean , and is now perfectly empty | Scarbutt wrote: | _Smoking your first cigarette implants that light switch on | your mind_ | | I don't think that's true in general, at least not for me or | many of my friends. We never got hooked. Please don't try | though ;) | TameAntelope wrote: | My experience has been similar. I've smoked cigarettes | probably ~12 times in my life, maybe up to 20 if you count | cigars, but I've never felt like I need one or am in any way | compelled to continue smoking on my own. | | Always, _always_ while drinking. Maybe that helps isolate the | context? | 1_player wrote: | Sorry, I downvoted you, I hate when people think they're | immune. They're one of the reason other people find | themselves addicted to it. It's irresponsible and frankly | immature. | | Smoking one or 100 cigarettes doesn't guarantee addiction, | it's a Russian roulette. If you haven't heard BANG yet, | doesn't mean there's no ammo in the chamber. | | You're not better or smarter than smokers. You just were | more lucky. | TameAntelope wrote: | I guess my only thought here is: how can someone like me | talk about my experience if I'm going to get shouted down | by someone like you? I was trying to share an anecdote to | explain a potentially interesting alternative view, but I | feel now that if I don't toe the orthodoxy line, I'm not | allowed to participate. | | I don't think I'm immune, but I am _certain_ I 'm not | addicted to nicotine despite having smoked dozens of | times, and I think that's a story worth sharing, even if | you don't. | 1_player wrote: | Good for you. | | Sorry I don't have a better analogy, but it's like coming | home from a tour in the military, and telling everybody | "hey guys, war is perfectly safe, look at me I'm still | alive!" -- I'm really happy for you, but others are going | to listen to your "story", follow your example, and have | drastically worse results. | | I think it's more interesting learning from those that | went through hell, not the reckless lucky ones that | managed to stay unscathed and think they're hot shit. | Luck ain't a skill nor wisdom. | | I know these are strong words for the matter at hand, but | there must be an ex smoker or three that know exactly | what I'm talking about. | yllorepap wrote: | I am immune, it's easy. Just don't smoke. I've probably | smoked hundreds of cigarettes with beer with friends. I'd | just never have one on my own. I've never had a drink on | my own either. It's obvious and easy. | Seanambers wrote: | 12 times is too little I would say. It's addictive, but its | not heroin either. | | In the beginning it was something to do with friends at | parties, then it became something to do while hanging out, | and last came the addiction- ' I must have it'. All in all | maybe a year from beginner to smoker. | | I Started when I was 14, quit at 24. Used snus/chewing | tobacco for 3 years after that, then I quit. Used to have | nightmares of relapsing. The fascinating thing is that the | physical addiction is over very quickly(days) its the | psychological addiction that breaks people(and me more | times than I care to remember). | wnesensohn wrote: | Of course this is purely anecdotal, but I also smoke rarely | when drinking, and only then. Some nights up to half a | pack, sometimes just one or two, but only two to three | times a year by now. Interestingly, I have no desire to | smoke whatsoever when not drinking, not even a hint. | | Something in my brain seems to be wired such that I'm | repelled by the taste when it's not in the "right" setting. | Even if I wanted, when I only had a beer or two I get so | sick from it that I have to stop almost immediately. | | It might be that I'm just super lucky, but I feel like | there is more to it than that. | lolc wrote: | To this day, I can recall how a good one feels. The calm of a | sunset. And I can remember how a bad one feels. The sore throat, | cough, headache, numbness, sleeplessness, smell, and ennui of | ignoring all that when preparing another one. | | When bad memories had been accumulating for a long while, I quit. | And it was easy to recall the bad ones whenever I would think of | lighting one again. So I didn't. Even if I knew it'd be a good | one. Because there would be bad ones after. | | I won't forget the good ones either. And if I ever think I can | just smoke the good ones, without smoking the bad ones after, | then I'll start again. | shoto_io wrote: | I quit about a hundred times 20 yrs ago. I don't why, but after | that I finally grabbed this damn book by Allen Carr. I would have | never that it would work. But for me it did. Been smoke free ever | since. Maybe just pure luck. Maybe it was the goddamn book. | awakeasleep wrote: | That book is a gentle and thorough introduction to an idea that | I, as a smoker, had been hiding from or confused about. | | Pretty amazing. | refulgentis wrote: | Can you tell me more? I'm familiar with the book but it | didn't click with me, and I've had a strange feeling the past | couple months I'm missing a really good mental model for | where it comes from (tl;dr psychiatrist started talking about | it after a year of hinting, but they thought I was a step | ahead of where I actually am) | Jhsto wrote: | Has anyone else tried writing under some arbitrary restrictions? | In case you did not notice, the blog subtitle is 11 sentence | essays. The post as well, unsurprisingly, is 11 sentences (... I | guess, but it has a number of complicated ones). | k__ wrote: | Went into a wikipedia rabbit hole about restricted writing | after reading about E-Prime. | | It's a very intriguing topic. | chippy wrote: | E-prime intrigues me too ;-) | | I just love E-Prime. I once, for a month, used social media | where I would try to only use e-prime. I experienced a lot of | difficulty, but I enjoyed the experience. For a week, I tried | only speaking in e-prime and had to use a notepad to | formulate my thoughts before speaking. I had more problems | then, but also more fun explaining to people why. | k__ wrote: | Haha, sounds fun, yes. | | Do you have any good resources on how to get started? | drdavid wrote: | I have been putting my Linux notes online in the form of a | blog. I use a plugin that estimates the time it takes to read | each article. I try to keep them all under five minutes, unless | I specifically set out to write a longer article. | | Inside that, I also try to not use more than 300 words without | a new sub-heading, avoid too much passive voice, don't use too | many overly long sentences, and don't use the same first word | for more than two sentences in a row. | becquerel wrote: | I used to write short stories that didn't contain the letter | 'e', inspired by George Perec's book La Disparition (cracking | novel, highly recommended -- all the translations from French | keep it up as well). | | It's challenging, obviously, but also forces you to employ very | unusual and unique language. | version_five wrote: | A month ago I wrote what I would call a professional post on a | social media / networking site. I had drafted it in a text | editor first, and when I pasted it to post, I found there was a | character limit I'd run afoul of and was forced to edit. It was | actually very helpful to be forced to clarify and shorten what | I'd written. I'd like to find a way to recreate the forced | restriction (especially when discovered only after I thought | I'd made it concise already). | [deleted] | bschne wrote: | Agreed! As much as nuance can get lost in short posts, these | limits have saved me from putting many an overly convoluted, | rambling mess out there. | chejazi wrote: | Here are the steps I took that have helped me not smoke for the | past 1.5yrs: | | 1. Switched from cigarettes (great taste) to an iqos (disgusting | taste). | | 2. Threw away my iqos the day before I moved countries (back to | my home country). | | 3. Arrived in new country around new years, set that new years | resolution. | | 4. Spent first 1-2 months of new year living with my parents | while I searched for housing. | | Aside from the resolution, each step wasn't particularly aimed at | quitting _forever_. With time under my belt, I've since adopted a | hardline "no cigarettes for life" mentality. It comes at the cost | of being overly judgmental of others who are smoking. It keeps me | in check though; otherwise, I sense that a relapse is far too | easy. | deesep wrote: | I started smoking when i went to study in China. Someone gifted | me an expensive brand of cigarette, and I kept it hidden in a | drawer for two weeks as I didn't smoke. One very cold day with no | where to go and nothing to do, I took the pack out and lit one | stick. My did it have a lovely scent. The heat it created inside | me was also soothing. It took me about a week and half to finish | the pack of 21 cigs. I couldn't afford to buy the same brand | often but i had become addicted to smoking. I struggled with | anxiety back then and smoking calmed my nerves. Within 1 year I | was smoking 2 packs a day. | | Smoking is frowned upon in Ghana, so upon my return there were | few places I could smoke. One day while out and about I got | really anxious about something and I needed a cig badly. I had to | go some distance to get one, and even got a harder time finding a | place to hide and smoke. I felt like I was committing the most | heinous of crimes cause I had to take off my shirt to ensure the | smell didn't stick on me. I didn't even enjoy the smoke because | the quality wasn't that good, I smoked in a hurry and kept | looking over my shoulder. I simply couldn't live like that | anymore. So I quit after that day. The next time I tried to smoke | again was 2 months later. I couldn't even finish a stick as it | made me feel sick. I have disliked the smell of cigarettes ever | since. And that was 7 years ago. | standardUser wrote: | I think the most important thing for people to realize about | nicotine addiction (and all addiction) is that is does not work | the same for everybody. Some people can smoke a few cigarettes | every other weekend and not think about it otherwise, while | others will never voluntarily go more than 45 minutes without a | cigarette. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-05-31 23:00 UTC)