[HN Gopher] Etsy to buy fashion reseller Depop for $1.63B ___________________________________________________________________ Etsy to buy fashion reseller Depop for $1.63B Author : pseudolus Score : 230 points Date : 2021-06-02 10:29 UTC (12 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com) | alexander-litty wrote: | My partner is a top seller on Depop. We send and receive packages | pretty much every day, it's been great for them during the | pandemic. | | Depop has done a great job fostering a more human experience than | other platforms. That's definitely a huge factor in their | success. | | Buying and selling is pretty involved. Haggling is super common. | If you're selling many items, people will message you and ask for | bundle deals. If you're a regular, sometimes people will just | throw you a discount. If you just buy something silently, you'll | often get a short thank-you message. | | There's a culture around the packaging, too. People tend to put | candies, stickers, hand-written thank-you notes, extra things the | seller doesn't need anymore. It's fun to open packages coming in, | and it's fun to pack them out with little surprises. | | My partner has made a lot of friends that way, which has led to | trading of talents and services. Sometimes it's just people | helping people, sometimes it's commissions, sometimes it's | bartering, but all originating from the platform. | | I definitely see why Etsy's interested. | brobdingnagians wrote: | I once bought a bottle of expensive fountain pen ink for my | sister as a present; the thing that struck me most about it was | that they included a hand-written thank you note in the | packaging. It was a family business, and I remember it, years | later, because it was such a pleasant surprise, and an | unexpected one from all of the other commercial encounters I | have. It taught me the value of the personal touch and | attention to detail for customers. | xmprt wrote: | And as a note to any big companies thinking of doing this, it | has to be personal. I've gotten tons of cards and brochures | in packages from big companies that I instantly throw away | because it's usually just corporate jargon about how much | thought was put into making this product "just for me". | Nextgrid wrote: | Just wondering, is it profitable? I believe the Depop fee is | 10% plus payment processing fees, which to me doesn't sound | like a great deal, but then again I'm not really familiar with | that whole market. | an_opabinia wrote: | Definitely not if you account for time. | | Sellers are making subminimum wage profits per hour. | | On the one hand, a medical resident also makes very close to | minimum wage. | gnopgnip wrote: | The market for used things is not very liquid, selling online | is often the most profitable choice. Selling locally directly | to consumers mostly means not finding any buyers or greatly | reducing the price. Reselling used clothing to a brick and | mortar store, or to be consigned will vary. It often takes | 80-90% for children's clothing, 50-70% for most women's | clothing, as low as 20% for very valuable items like designer | purses. There are other online markets but most of them | charge more in fees, and really only Ebay has as much traffic | from buyers | ckdarby wrote: | I have a family member who just left her banking job to | expand more into Depop and yesterday she mentioned she hit | the milestone of making more than her bank job now. | tinco wrote: | My sister runs a succesful shop on Depop, she's the starving | artist type, and the income from her Depop puts her suddenly | at a decent median income. I don't know how sustainable it | is, who knows for how long her artistic taste aligns with | Depop's target market, but it does seem like a great way to | run a business. | | It is very surprising to me that it's as low as 10%. I bet | that even if it were 30% or even 40% it would still be | profitable. The way she operates is she buys lots of second | hand clothing from Japan, for lets say $5 and then from that | lot she sells a pair of jeans for $50. So her profit is $40 | on the lot. Maybe she makes 15 sales per week, and boom | there's a decent wage. | | Numbers are all extrapolated from when I talked to her about | her business one weekend a couple months ago. I have no idea | how much she actually sells or makes at the moment. | | Maybe also interesting to note that this is a scale up from | what she already did locally. She's been trading second hand | clothing for years now. The Depop thing is new and it | transformed her business from being a side gig to a primary | source of income. | sjg007 wrote: | I've been listening to Galdwell's audiobook Outliers and he | talks about the NYC garment industry in the late 19th and | early 20th century. There's a lot of parallels with today. | You might find it interesting. | alexander-litty wrote: | Anecdotally, this platform gives liquidity to your otherwise | unsellable clothes, and that is the big appeal. | | If you have a dress you'll no longer wear, you have a few | online platforms to sell it on, but they're not known for | fashionable clothing. Nobody will be looking for your clothes | on there organically. It drives the price of your clothes | down, if you're even able to sell them at all. | | A lot of people use this to recycle interesting fashion and | keep their closets and outfits interesting at a really low | cost, as my partner does. | | You do have flippers of course, it's common enough that they | call Depop-flipped items "repops". I suspect this can be | profitable, but you need to source your items at a great | discount. | antihero wrote: | I mean now Etsy is interested I'm sure it won't take long to | become another wasteland of shit-tier mass produced products | from Chinese sellers. | matsemann wrote: | Isn't that also how Etsy was, before it became a drop shipping | marketplace? | JohnWhigham wrote: | Pretty much. I remember someone showing it to me in 2010 and | I was floored at all the cool vendors on it. Expect Depop to | be gutted soon like every other startup purchase. | | But then again, those were probably the founder's plans. | 45ure wrote: | >Depop has done a great job fostering a more human experience | than other platforms. | | You paint a pretty picture; the camaraderie of buying, selling, | haggling in an online cobbled internet town square, make for an | idyllic setting. The tug-and-pull of reuse/recycle, vintage vs | fast fashion are noble principles. | | However, there is a murky side, which is infused with extreme | expectations, toxic and churlish behaviour e.g. Amazon Prime | type service, petty haggling over a few pennies, sellers | abusing their privileges, limited understanding of fees and/or | how PayPal works, unnecessary spats and an appallingly high | level of entitlement etc. | | Nevertheless, there is synergy, but have doubts about long-term | prospects - Depop might just become another case study in | acquihire or perhaps just a blot, as there is no shortage of | other contenders nipping at their heels e.g. Vinted. | | https://www.instagram.com/depopdrama/ | waynesonfire wrote: | looks like an expensive online goodwill | nly wrote: | Reading the headline "<Business I've never heard of> selling for | $<N>bn" is become an increasingly common occurrence for me | nkrisc wrote: | I mean this in a completely good-natured way, but after looking | at their site I'm not surprised that someone who would write | "<Business I've never heard of> selling for $<N>bn" has never | heard of them. You don't strike me as their target audience. | | That said, neither am I. Looks like you can't even view any | merchandise on the website, it's basically an app-only | experience it seems. That's a huge turn-off for me. | darkr wrote: | Try signing up/signing in on web and you'll get a whole new | experience. | | Anonymous browsing/guest checkout might be an avenue that we | take another look at in the future; but yes - historically we | have been focussed on our mobile apps as first-class | citizens. | [deleted] | anentropic wrote: | Yes you can, just scroll down | nkrisc wrote: | I did, I didn't see anything that looks like the start of | an ecommerce sales funnel. Maybe I missed it, I was just | expecting something obvious. I expected the main menu (on | mobile) to have some kind of inventory taxonomy. I'm well | aware I'm not the target audience and it shows. | input_sh wrote: | After clicking on "Vintage t-shirts", I got no products | available. | | After scrolling a bit more down, I've noticed I can click | on what I'm assuming is individual sellers, but that | returns 500 internal server error. | | And this thing is being sold for a billion dollars. | jeromegv wrote: | "This thing" is a hugely popular marketplace for second | hand clothing. Probably the first platform to finally | crack second hand clothing online, lots of billion | dollars being spent on clothes. | | The disdain some people have for what is not their niche | is crazy. Not everything needs to be a SAAS. It's pretty | clear this is meant to be used as an app and it looks | like you did your best to ignore it. | input_sh wrote: | > It's pretty clear this is meant to be used as an app | and it looks like you did your best to ignore it. | | Not clear at all. I looked up the company, opened the | website, and there are some "get the app" buttons, but | the website does not indicate that the product is an app- | first experience at all. | | The submitted article even mentions it as a "shopping | site", not an app. And looking at play store reviews, it | doesn't look like the app is any better. It's filled with | various technical issues and 1 or 2 star reviews. | | So excuse me for having this crazy assumption that if | something is being sold for over a billion dollars, it | should at least somewhat work. | | If I were Etsy, I would probably buy it for the community | and marketing talent, fire every single dev and start | from scratch. | dmitriid wrote: | You do have to admire them for being as popular as they | are, and not actually being _good_. | | Their app can't even properly show me clothes based on my | preferences: | https://twitter.com/dmitriid/status/1400084936372199429 | | It only goes to show how horrendously bad the original | market was. | sandworm101 wrote: | Ok boomer. Nobody uses websites anymore. For the proper | shopping experience you must install the app. Your | precise browsing history and phone location will be used | to tailor a bespoke peer-to-peer shopping experience. | Don't like a shopping app running 24/7 in your pocket? | You just don't get modern fashion. | z29LiTp5qUC30n wrote: | But I was born in 2002 and I still don't get this crap. | It is like people are begging to be psychologically | controlled for max financial extraction... | sandworm101 wrote: | >> people are begging to be psychologically controlled | for max financial extraction | | "Shut up and take my money!" Futurama s06e03 - Attack of | the Killer App (2010) | input_sh wrote: | Pretty sure they were being sarcastic. | TheGigaChad wrote: | Hang yourself millennial subhuman. | dunkeylim wrote: | Depop is hugely popular. Every 20s girl knows about Depop. HN | is just not the demographic. | varsketiz wrote: | 4m buyers and 2m sellers according to the FT. | Item_Boring wrote: | The website works fine for me - searching e.g. Celine shows | 126 products. | KoftaBob wrote: | Very _HN_ way of calling someone a fellow nerd, I love it. | andrewingram wrote: | It's actually one of the reasons I left the company. On paper | I was hired (back in 2015) to build the website, but spent | most of my tenure building internal tools. When I finally did | get to build it, thankfully I had another web developer | working with me by then, but it was also clear there was no | interest from the rest of the business in making the website | anything more than a lead generator for app downloads. | | This was probably a good business decision given their key | demographic, but it didn't make me feel good about what my | role was, especially as (according to the soon-to-be-CTO) I | was one of their stronger engineers. It felt weird to have | expertise and constantly feel side-lined. There were | definitely some challenging years in the middle, but they | seem to have turned it around. | shankr wrote: | I suppose you don't hear often about all the market/advertising | companies buying each other. Even though I work in this field, | I am almost always clueless about who are these companies. | hardtke wrote: | Advertising companies have a natural size limit since they | generally can't work for competing companies. Agencies reach | about $500M in revenue and then get sold off to a holding | company. It's almost inevitable there are a whole bunch of | deals. | zachrose wrote: | To think that one day Etsy was one of those businesses, and now | they have $1.63B to spend on the new thing | Ekaros wrote: | I'm always surprised in number of these 1B+ businesses... Like | is there really this many of them, or is there something weird | going on... | elorant wrote: | They fly under the radar. They keep their heads down and do | their job without trying to attract attention in order to | avoid unwanted competition. There are myriads of such | companies out there we've never heard of. | bertil wrote: | Depop is very much the opposite of flying under the radar. | They are a key player in fashion and love nothing but | flashy promotions, they'd love to be associated to any big | brand. They are not as big as Farfetch (disclaimer: where I | worked) but both companies are pillars of fashion-tech | scene in London. | | Their marketing and social media presence is as large as | they can get it (I know their former Head of Social media | and VP Product). Being successful there is a first step to | becoming an influencer. As a second-hand market, they've | been carried by the environmental trend lately, deservingly | so. Their audience is younger, more female and fashion- | forward and in that very seeked-after demographic, they | have incredible numbers. There are American companies, like | Vestiaire Collective, that offer a similar service but | Depop is making strides around the world. | | There might not be a lot of overlap with your interest, or | those of many people in Hacker News -- and that's fine. | But, to fin equivalents, saying that TikTok or Tampax are | "under the radar" brands says more about your curiosity | than it says about a product used by half of the | population. | elorant wrote: | They're not a "key player in fashion". A key player in | fashion is Prada or D&G. They're a niche company dealing | with second hand streetware items. | | How on earth does Tik Tok or Tampax relate with Depop? | | P.S. As a general rule of thumb we try to avoid personal | remarks in here when replying to a person. Just to keep | the place a bit more civilized. | colinmhayes wrote: | Depop really isn't a niche company. It's effectively | instagram but the clothes are for sale. Companies relate | to the consumers the same way they do with instagram | influencers, product placement. | nly wrote: | I suppose it's not that much really. If you stick a P/E | multiple of 20x on it then it's only annual earnings of $80M. | greesil wrote: | You only get that multiple if you're publicly listed. | Usually for M&A the price is discounted from that, but this | also varies widely by industry. Never do a hardware | startup, for instance :) | ludamad wrote: | What is clothing but low tech wearables | greesil wrote: | E-commerce | JohnJamesRambo wrote: | Yes something very weird is going on. | | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL | JohnWhigham wrote: | It's a byproduct of all the VC funny money being thrown | around. | CamelCaseName wrote: | My guess is that it's driven by multiple inflation. | | Prior to August 2018, there were no trillion dollar | companies, now there are at least 5 (MSFT, AMZN, AAPL, | Aramco, Google) and more on the way. | RC_ITR wrote: | Sure there's multiple expansion, but also significant | earnings growth... | thaumasiotes wrote: | > Prior to August 2018, there were no trillion dollar | companies, now there are at least 5 (MSFT, AMZN, AAPL, | Aramco, Google) | | This observation seems more likely to be driven by Aramco | not being a _public_ company before 2018 than by Aramco not | _existing_ before 2018. | | Just because it's a little harder to see something doesn't | mean it isn't there. | rahoulb wrote: | I've always felt one of the fallacies of the startup culture | that we surround ourselves in is that winning involves | "taking over the world". | | There are so many "niche" businesses out there - that will be | enough to bring in millions in revenue - simply because there | is such a variety in what people want and need. And we'll | never hear of them unless our interests happen to coincide | with that particular niche. | | Case in point - I've just started working for a company that | is an upstart small player in the area of document management | for construction companies. You'd think document management | was a solved problem and there wouldn't be room for | specialists in that area - but no, there are several multi- | million dollar businesses that do nothing but. And there's | still room for small companies like ours to grow into. | wintermutestwin wrote: | Interesting that you used the term "document management" as | opposed to "content management." I cut my teeth as a | "document management" consultant in the early 90s, when it | was really just documents. I thought the "content | management" term took over. | ghaff wrote: | Way back when I was a computer systems product manager, I was | constantly struck by the random customers that would come | through the executive briefing center who were some random | boring business (making milk bottles or whatever) and it would | turn out they had 75% of the US market or something like that. | (This was before really widespread globalization.) | nly wrote: | I would be super interested in ways to visualize or learn of | these 'background realities'. | arashi99 wrote: | Congrats to the team!!! Used to sit across them in CW in | London... way to go | werber wrote: | At the risk of misusing Gen Z slang, Etsy is "Cheugy" and depop | is "no cap fire". Depop has the cache of being cool enough that | celebrities (Doja Cat and Princess Nokia come to mind) whereas | Etsy is more "mom crafts", with that being said I'm a big Etsy | shopper. This feels a lot like the aqquistion of Instagram by | Facebook in terms of buying a company for not just utility but | social capital. | lotsofpulp wrote: | I was under the impression that it all eventually turns into | AliExpress? I do not see how one can trust these "individual" | sellers on Etsy or Depop or whatever to do quality control. If | they do, and the reputation of the "market" is good, then there | will exist arbitrage opportunity for other sellers to resell | AliExpress stuff. | FireBeyond wrote: | A few years ago, Etsy claimed that they were on a big mission | to remove resellers and only allow individual, bespoke | sellers. | | I haven't seen a whole lot of evidence that they have, or | have been successful. | randycupertino wrote: | I've heard it akin to Etsy is where your aunt buys her "Live | Laugh Love" signs and Depop is for kids to shop for cool | college outfits. | | I do a lot of thrifting myself and have been comparative | shopping on Ebay, Depop and Poshmark for the best deals. | Sometimes the same products are on all three! | ehnto wrote: | Today I learned about the word Cheugy, and wish I hadn't. | | The wikipedia page for it reads like satire: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheugy | | > While it has been compared to "being basic",[3] some sources | have suggested that it is "not quite 'basic'." | | What do you mean?! What are you trying to say to me!? Use real | words damnit! We have so many! | lotsofpulp wrote: | The point of using that lingo is not to try to communicate | with you, but amongst their own tribe members. It's probably | been happening since language has been around, and it happens | in all sorts of groupings | (age/business/profession/location/race/education/etc). | subpixel wrote: | I'd be interested in reading about how Depop did what dozens of | other startups have tried to do: build a giant business around | the used clothes market. | colinmhayes wrote: | Depop is more similar to instagram than a resale site. It has | influencers and a "for you" page. | jasonladuke0311 wrote: | Don't be like Grailed is a good start. Can't believe how badly | that site has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of | victory. | FlyingSaucer wrote: | Depop isn't alone in this, Vinted[1] has a current valuation of | $4.5B and is hugely popular in Belgium, Netherlands and France | (maybe more places, but those i can definitely say). | | In both platforms there is influencer-heavy marketing. Many | fashion influencers(i really dislike this term, but it is the | nomenclature) sell clothes that they wore very little in | Instagram advertisements. This is a great business model for | them, people follow them more tightly because they are actually | able to buy for (mostly) affordable prices some of the clothes | they see in pictures and they also get some additional under- | the-radar cash. | | [1] : https://www.vinted.com/ | sweeneyrod wrote: | It's interesting that they have a much higher valuation (and | from some cursory research, moderately more users) than | Depop, despite (AFAIK) being completely obscure in the US/UK. | matsemann wrote: | In Scandinavia I think Tise is similar. For purchasing used | clothing and stuff, but the listing is more akin to Instagram | than on a normal listing site. You follow people with a style | you like and buy their stuff, and then sell it on. | | https://tise.com/ | subpixel wrote: | I found it. | | "But the real secret to Depop's success is that it allows users | to amass two of the most valuable modern currencies: money and | clout. Becoming a top seller on Depop is a springboard to fame | on YouTube or Instagram. It also provides built-in monetization | for a future career as an influencer." | andrewingram wrote: | They also doubled-down on it. They flirted with branching out | into other markets and demographics but it didn't really stick. | | There was a bit of luck in getting their initial traction (they | were definitely not prepared for the growth spurt and spent | years getting to the point that the backend wasn't just falling | over constantly), but they executed really well on capturing | their core market. | Nextgrid wrote: | I don't think Depop did anything special per-se. It's a | combination of luck and the right investors bankrolling it for | ages. | | It is a very marketing-heavy operation, as the platform itself | doesn't offer that great of a deal to sellers - they charge a | 10% commission plus payment processing fees (PayPal takes 2%, | though now I believe there's an option to use a different | processor), so high-volume sellers are unlikely to use it. I | wouldn't be surprised if up until this day they were spending | more on marketing that they would've made back from most | customers. | | The business itself is quite low-margin (support & fraud/scams | cuts into that), has decent competition (Mercari, StockX) and | can be trivially replicated by the likes of Facebook (Depop is | basically an Instagram but where you can buy & sell - something | FB can trivially replicate if they wanted to). | | It makes sense for Etsy to buy it for access to the userbase | and to integrate it into their existing business, but as a | stand-alone business it's not that great IMO because of the | aforementioned points. | weird-eye-issue wrote: | "a combination of luck and the right investors" | | I don't think that would be fair and that it is 100% likely | there was a great deal of deliberate strategy involved as | well. | Nextgrid wrote: | My point is that I believe the strategy was a very risky | bet (way too risky in my opinion, but then again I'm not a | startup CEO for a reason). | | This is a very marketing-heavy operation that I don't think | could stand on its own and be sustainable, and so the only | possible outcome is to stay afloat long enough (by | reinvesting a significant chunk of revenue into more | marketing) to get gobbled up by a bigger fish. | | They had the right investors that believed in it and | bankrolled it for long enough and it paid off, but it's | ultimately still a stroke of luck IMO. | yaitsyaboi wrote: | I doubt FB could replicate this. Fb itself is a non-starter | the people who use this app haven't been on Fb in years. | Okay, so Instagram. If they could, they would've. | | I think there are problems with making Instagram seem tacky | by clobbering on a marketplace. It would make it look cheap | and shilly. Right now it's the most rarified space to share | pictures of your awesome lifestyle. I think you can either | have that very cool, chic vibe or the amazon marketplace | vibe. | | I think that despite their enormous resources, there are | places that brands can't go. | alex_g wrote: | Instagram already has marketplace features, and personally | it lost its rarified space vibes to me a long time ago. | numair wrote: | Depop is an excellent example of using lots of domain expertise | in an area that investors etc would write off as a "lifestyle | business" or "not likely to achieve a high ROI" to create what is | now a billion-dollar exit. | | The founders of Depop have been in the fashion, and fashion | retail, business for a long time. They started Retrosuperfuture, | which was a cult hit in the sunglasses business (they probably | did a lot more, but I never really bothered investigating). The | knowledge and expertise they got from that cult hit -- along with | the credibility and the network among fashion's "cool kids," | particularly in Milan -- gave them a bit of an "unfair advantage" | when they went after the at-that-time-already-getting-crowded | used clothes business. They also executed pretty well in building | exactly what their users wanted. | | If you don't get this business, how it is worth this much money, | who they are, etc -- no, you're not some sort of genius humble- | bragging that you're blissfully unaware of such petty little | things. You're just demonstrating that you feel compelled to | comment on things you don't understand and dismiss them because | they don't fit into your myopic worldview of "what's important." | Fashion is an industry, and one of the largest in the world; | anyone who cares about global commerce / the environment / etc | should be paying attention to that industry, and to the | "circular" trend that remains in its infancy. | | I hope the combined company continues to innovate, and that this | isn't just some sort of depressing market consolidation play. | This space has a LOT of room for growth. | k-mcgrady wrote: | I'm surprised anyone would write this off. It's a trendy eBay | for a specific niche (used/"vintage" clothes). If you can get | it to scale (obviously not easy) it seems like it's an easy win | and easy to monetise. On the surface a much better investment | opportunity than a lot of the stuff we see on HN. | jazzkingrt wrote: | I've used depop a fair amount, I think it's a big leg up over | eBay because of it draws some useful features from social | media. | | The feed allows you to follow and discover sellers whose | style suits you, and stay informed of their offerings. You | can see who they follow, and so on. | nr2x wrote: | Website looked like it had some cool stuff. Hard to find good | streetwear. | jonplackett wrote: | If they can just get the search to work properly I'd use it a | lot more! | krrrh wrote: | I'd never visited the site but it looks very nicely executed, | especially at creating a consistent vibe out of user-uploaded | photos, which isn't easy. | | A neat thing about businesses like this is that it takes a | skillset that a lot of underemployed people have (cool hunting | in thrift stores), and gives them a path to making part of | their living out of it aside from the ancillary benefits of | that come with being fashionable and cool. It also provides | access to wider markets and price discovery for vintage shops | in the same way that abehbooks did for used bookstores a decade | or two ago, or eBay did for junk sellers at flea markets. | | The inevitable downside is that it further compresses globo | youth culture and makes it harder to develop a scene, but that | horse left the gate a long time ago. | spoonjim wrote: | I don't dislike fashion because I'm a humble bragging genius. I | dislike it because I think it's bad for the world. It preys on | and fuels women's insecurities to sell them throwaway products | made by borderline-enslaved Cambodians. A guy making $1.63 | billion doesn't change that -- the mentality that "it makes | money so it's good" is precisely the sick mentality behind this | whole blight upon the world. I know you are right that there is | more growth in this industry, but that growth is going to make | the world a worse place. | flatline wrote: | That's a pretty cynical take. Much the same could be said of | any industry that relies on manufacturing and marketing. I | think there's value in _society_ at large - we are social | creatures and relating to each other, mimicking each other, | and other forms of communication are deeply tied to how we | get along as human beings. I 'm not saying fashion is itself | necessarily useful at large, and it certainly has the issues | you described, but it's at least a byproduct of other things | that are highly useful. | germinalphrase wrote: | Perhaps much of the same _should be_ said of other | industries. | akarma wrote: | > It preys on and fuels women's insecurities to sell them | throwaway products made by borderline-enslaved Cambodians. | | It sounds like you've never used Depop or learned about it | before writing this comment. Depop is the exact _opposite_. | It 's a solution to what you're framing as a problem. Depop | is a way to recycle clothing rather than throwing it out and | buying more - it is actually a reaction to the exact fast | fashion you're complaining about. | Jackpillar wrote: | Unfortunately that's not necessarily the case. People run | full on dropshipping businesses on Depop under the guise of | handmade/second hand clothing. There is also widespread | "thrift hauls" on Depop where 20 something rich people | ransack thrift stores which are staples in low-income | communities and sell on Depop for 10x. Depop doesn't do | anything to counter the hypercapitalist and wasteful | fashion industry - its just another component to it. | | https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22396051/thrift-store-hauls- | et... | CPLX wrote: | This comment is pretty reactionary and maybe doesn't | deserve a reply but I've seen variations on this | criticism before and as someone that's worked in this | space it doesn't make any sense: | | > There is also widespread "thrift hauls" on Depop where | 20 something rich people ransack thrift stores which are | staples in low-income communities | | This complaint seems to be based on a profound delusion, | which is that the social mission of thrift stores is to | provide cheap clothing for people who don't have much | money. | | The charity aspect of thrift stores, at least | historically, has been _the money that you give them_ | when you buy stuff there. | | So in fact _the whole point_ of the enterprise is to have | people who have stuff they don 't need donate it to a | worthy cause, who sell it to _people with money_ who want | it, and then they take _the money_ that they make this | way and give it to _people who need money_ or use it to | provide needed services etc. | | Nobody is "ransacking" a charity by doing the exact thing | the charity is hoping people will do, which is _giving | the charity money_ that can be used to further charitable | activities. | subpixel wrote: | > The charity aspect of thrift stores, at least | historically, has been the money that you give them when | you buy stuff there. | | That's actually completely backwards. The public good | that a thrift store provides is to make cheap, essential | things accessible to people who can't afford anything | else. Goodwill is a nonprofit because there is no profit | in making cheap, essential things accessible to people | who can't afford to anything else. | azornathogron wrote: | I don't know anything about Goodwill, but in the UK there | are several charities that run shops and their purpose is | as the parent describes - the shops generate revenue for | the charity to carry out its work. | | The first sentence on the wikipedia page on Charity shop | [1] (and "Thrift shop" redirects to the same page) says: | | > A charity shop (UK), thrift shop or thrift store (USA) | or opportunity shop (others) is a retail establishment | run by a charitable organization to raise money. | | The Goodwill.org page About Us > Our Vision for | Transformation [2] has a section "HOW LOCAL GOODWILLS | DELIVER IMPACT" the third item of which starts: | | > Goodwill retail operations generate revenue that | supports our mission work. [...] | | So, it's possible these things are dual-purpose and | intended to meet both goals, or that some thrift stores | have the goal of raising revenue and some have the goal | of making recycled items available cheaply. But | _certainly_ parent 's point is not backward - _at least_ | many thrift stores explicitly operate in order to | generate revenue as a form of funding for charitable | ventures. People with money buying things from charity | shops helps the charities. It 's what they want. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_shop [2] | https://www.goodwill.org/about-us/our-vision-for- | transformat... | samhh wrote: | The first R is reduce. The second is reuse. Our cultural | obsession with fashion completely bypasses each of these. | Quinner wrote: | Depop is reuse. Progress is made on the margins. | Absolutist judgement of something a lot of people like | does nothing to help. | rland wrote: | I think depot would count as reuse, right?. Honestly, I'm | stoked whenever we manage to make it past "recycle." | | I'd be happier if they announced that recycling was fake | and everything you throw in the blue bin is trash. | SV_BubbleTime wrote: | Oh, but those R's are hard and not fun. | | What's really fun is throwing all anything plastic | including wrappers, #5, #7, any metal, any paper | basically anything but food into the blue recycling tub | that someone comes to pick up and then I can smuggly look | down on people that "don't even care about the planet", | I'm doing my part by blankly assuming all my "recycling" | isn't going into a landfill! | | ... I wish I would still count the number of people that | think that, but it's too many. | | I try to "not buy shit", and Im pretty sure it's a lot | harder than wishcycling. | spoonjim wrote: | I'm not talking about Depop, I'm talking about why I hold | the fashion industry in low regard. | krustyburger wrote: | Your whole original comment just seems pretty | anachronistic in 2021. Especially as Pride month kicks | off, I'd caution you against holding on to antiquated | views that the fashion industry is only something for | women or has to do primarily with their insecurities. | | Whatever else it is, fashion to me is about both | aspiration and inspiration. It is something that is | creative not just for designers, but also their fans and | customers. It is fundamentally about encouraging people | to imagine themselves in new ways. | | It is emphatically not just some one-way broadcast aimed | at a certain, supposedly more impressionable, gender. | akomtu wrote: | I like to compare greed with steam and capitalism with a | steam engine. It's noisy and inefficient, but that's the only | tech we have right now. | aiisahik wrote: | oh ... wait till you hear about the car industry. | [deleted] | hellomyguys wrote: | >throwaway products made by borderline-enslaved Cambodians | | Well good thing Depop helps consumers avoid buying brand new | clothing items and encourages giving life to old clothes. | | >I don't dislike fashion because I'm a humble bragging | genius. I dislike it because I think it's bad for the world. | | All of fashion is bad for the world? Is that really your | take? | spoonjim wrote: | Yes, that is really my take. | reaperducer wrote: | So, nudity is the answers. Also ban tattoos and hair | styles while you're at it. And all self-expression, since | that's also subject to the whims of fashion. | | Thank you for enlightening us, Mr. Mao. | sovnade wrote: | I guess at a high level, nearly everything humanity does is | bad for the world. If that's your starting point then it | makes sense? | goldenchrome wrote: | Fashion is self-expression and your own personal connection | to culture. I don't think nerds on HN generally grok those | concepts but many other people in the world do. It's very | important to lots of people and it's a lot of fun once you | know what you're doing. | | The fashion world has abundant problems but it's still an | important industry. Preying on insecurities and using cheap | labor is sort of a way of looking at all consumerism though. | spoonjim wrote: | Don't assume that because I don't like it, I don't | understand it. I do understand the venal emotions of | mankind. That doesn't mean I respect the people who stoke | and exploit those emotions for profit. A lot of consumerism | is ecologically destructive but only a small amount of it | depends on actively harming your customer's mental well- | being. Fashion, Facebook, sensationalist media, etc. are | all industries that depend on making people feel worse. | goldenchrome wrote: | Frankly, you don't understand fashion. Fashion is not a | new industry, nor is it parasitic. It's one of the oldest | forms of self-expression and it makes lots of people feel | better, not worse. Fitting in is always going to be | stressful, but it's stressful because it's so important | for social creatures like us. Fashion is simply a tool | that helps people fit in. If you figured out a way to fit | in that doesn't involve fashion, then power to you, but | that doesn't invalidate thousands of years of people | enjoying clothes. | MonaroVXR wrote: | I want to know more about this, but I have no clue. No | clue if I'm fashionable at all. It's more like "Yes" and | "No" | CharlesW wrote: | > _I do understand the venal emotions of mankind._ | | Thank you, this is now my new catchphrase! | paxys wrote: | People will often say "I don't care about fashion", then I | point out that by wearing a dark monochrome tshirt, | "silicon valley" hoodie, zip-up vest etc. you are showing | that you are most definitely up to date on fashion trends. | ceilingcorner wrote: | Fine with me. If a bunch of smart people are going to lock | themselves out of a multi-billion industry because they are | too "enlightened" to bother, awesome. Less competition. | biztos wrote: | > it's a lot of fun once you know what you're doing | | It's also pretty useful if you have an open mind and no | idea what you're doing. | | I don't really "do" fashion but I'm grateful for my | cerulean sweater! | | https://youtu.be/vL-KQij0I8I | tomp wrote: | If your main "self-expression" statement is that you want | to look like others, is that really self-expression, or | were you just brainwashed? | Daishiman wrote: | If your interpretation of fashion is "looking like | others" then it means that your last encounter with | fashion was when you were a high school teenager. | goldenchrome wrote: | I think you're mixing up self-expression and being | completely unique. Self-expression is about fitting in as | much as standing out. It's about figuring out who you | are, and how you fit into society. Fashion is about | telling the world "this is who I am". It's a really good | way to connect with like-minded people. | | If you wear a business suit, you'll find company with | conservative business people. If you wear all black, | heavy boots, and band t-shirts you'll find company with | people who are into the local music scene. If you wear | Patagonia vests or startup hoodies you'll find company | with people who want to code into the evening. | burnished wrote: | This statement is really kind of funny, because its so | stylized, so absolutely stereotypical that there was no | way for you to possibly come to it creatively and | originally. | | Is some one buying momjeans on depop brainwashed, or is | it you? If you aren't the one who is brainwashed why is | your reply so ritualistic? | vmception wrote: | I like fashion because of the creativity | | I also like that I know where to find people that have the | bodies that less attractive women say are not real | | Just don't say anything at the tech company, or nod and agree | so that your coding academy graduates or state mandated board | member doesnt axe your entire division, and then go get | greeted by your bubbly atmosphere models after work | ty___ler wrote: | I think you have bigger fish to fry than a niche reseller | app. www.walmart.com | delaynomore wrote: | Come on now, mens fashion is also a multi-billion industry | majormajor wrote: | > I don't dislike fashion because I'm a humble bragging | genius. I dislike it because I think it's bad for the world. | | We could play that game for days, about most industries that | feature prominently on HN. This looks like just the sort of | narrow focus the original poster was talking about. Why are | fashion products worse than new smartphones coming out every | year? Because we personally like gadgets more? And if we were | talking about a used tech toy marketplace, comments about how | new manufacturing was bad would be similarly out of left | field, since here's an example of reuse. | hobs wrote: | This article was about fashion, so it seems relevant. Other | discussions about companies harmful practices often do | sound off in the threads about those companies or fields. | | I dont think anyone said one was worse than the other until | you did - we can actually be against more than one thing at | a time and maintain various levels of concerns across more | than one thing at a time without constantly bringing up a | list of all the bad things in the universe. | tomp wrote: | According to my reading, HN is full of complaints about new | phones (and everything else, e.g. washing machines) being | built with "planned obsolescence" as a goal, and praise for | Apple for being by far the best in supporting old devices | (but of course they could still improve!) | twoknee wrote: | FWIW the iPhone 5s from Fall 2013 is still receiving | regular security updates. | | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212341 | shard wrote: | Planned obsolescence goes beyond whether phone software | gets updated or not. It covers changing designs so that | you can tell one generation from another, so that there | is social pressure to upgrade despite the phone working | fine. | SV_BubbleTime wrote: | > We could play that game for days, about most industries | that feature prominently on HN. | | Do you have a moment to discuss my new crypto coin? It is | specifically good at taking dinosaurs and making them money | launder for drug dealers, murderers, and slavers. | tmhrtly wrote: | I know it's not exactly the be-all-end-all solution to the | problem, but it does feel like good quality used marketplaces | for fashion (like Depop) could help to counter that flow of | 'throwaway products'. In addition, in the long run having a | more liquid market for potential resale might encourage | people to buy better, longer lasting clothes at the offset | (but that might be a pipe dream on my part). | bsder wrote: | > "lifestyle business" or "not likely to achieve a high ROI" to | create what is now a billion-dollar exit. | | Why would you believe this? Fad businesses chasing the tweens | and 20-somethings is _ABSOLUTELY_ the kind of business that VCs | salivate over. | | And fashion rises and falls in cycles. Have we forgotten | fashion darlings like ModCloth? | | The key to the fashion business is knowing when to _cash out_. | intricatedetail wrote: | Why exit is thought of as a success? It's kind of like a pump | and dump scheme. Does it mean founders suddenly lose their | vision and abandon their customers to become an actual product | for shareholders? | tinco wrote: | It is a success because it is a concrete milestone that shows | the founders have fulfilled their roles to satisfaction. An | exit is not the only success, you could also simply | transition into being a successful private company, but then | there's no clear finish line. Now it is clear, no can argue | the founders success, it's written in black and white and | made public for all to see, they achieved an undeniably great | thing. | | Customers are always a product for shareholders, that doesn't | suddenly change when a company is sold to other shareholders. | And anyway, it could be a good thing, obviously Etsy has | great experience with taking care of their customers and | their partners and with running a huge business. Who says | anyone was abandoned? | Judgmentality wrote: | > Now it is clear, no can argue the founders success, it's | written in black and white and made public for all to see, | they achieved an undeniably great thing. | | No one can argue the founders' successful _profit_. I know | nothing about this company and have no opinion on it one | way or the other, but I know companies that are borderline | fraudulent (and I am aware that is a strong claim) that are | going public via SPACs and the founders are getting rich | despite not having a product or paying customers. | arkitaip wrote: | They have exactly 1.63B reasons to sell. You don't get to | judge them with zero insight into their business and visions | for their lives. | richardwhiuk wrote: | Not all of that money will go to the founders. | andrewingram wrote: | Most of it won't, there's only one founder and from what | I understand his share is less than what you'd expect. I | imagine all the early employees did pretty well from this | though. | ashtonkem wrote: | Also, I would openly laugh at anyone who claims that they'd | personally turn down 1.63B to keep their business pure. | That is an overwhelming amount of money, in the "none of | your descendants needs to work" range. | | I'd sell out for much, much less money. | marc__1 wrote: | Apparently there were many other billion dollar | acquisition bids turned down | | Mark Zuckerberg Turned Down Yahoo's $1 Billion | https://www.inc.com/allison-fass/peter-thiel-mark- | zuckerberg... | | Discord reportedly rejects Microsoft's $12 billion | acquisition offer https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/busin | ess/microsoft-12-bill... | | Amazon and Alibaba have approached 5-year-old startup | Wish, but the CEO seems to want more than $10 billion | https://www.businessinsider.com/wish-rumored-to-reject- | acqui... | ashtonkem wrote: | It's obviously not impossible for someone to turn down a | billion dollar offer because they think it's not enough, | or to maintain control over their company. But I think | people _drastically_ underestimate how easy it would be | to not sell out and walk away. The kind of people who | will look at that offer and say "no thanks" are far and | few between. There is a non-trivial chance that most of | us have not met anyone like that. | CyberDildonics wrote: | Mark Zuckerberg also turned down a $15 Billion dollar | offer from Microsoft. | alksjdalkj wrote: | But there's a difference between turning down a bid | because you want to maintain control over your vision and | because you think your company is just worth more than | the offer. The point is just that if you get what you | think is a fair offer, and it's a very large offer, it | would be hard for most people to say no. | alex_young wrote: | Also of note: Groupon turned down $6B from Google. They | now have a market cap of $1.6B 11 years later. | | https://www.pon.harvard.edu/daily/win-win- | daily/win%C2%AD-wi... | chevill wrote: | On the contrary if I ever built a business that was worth | 100 million or more I'd take far less than my share of it | if it meant that I could get a clean exit and not have to | stay on as an executive for a few years. | | Perhaps my mentality is part of the reason why I will | never build such a thing. | derefr wrote: | The context of the parent comment is what _investors_ think. | Investors -- especially VCs -- like acquisitions; they get | them paid out at the 10x they were looking for, within their | fund 's time-horizon. | numair wrote: | This is actually a very valid question. Every situation is | different -- usually I'd agree with you, and I actually | hesitated when describing the success as due to the exit. In | this case, however, the exit is likely due to the ability for | the combined entity to execute the original vision better | than before, and it also allows us to put a dollar number on | the value of a space / business that unsophisticated | bystanders continue to dismiss as "not a real business" (even | on this page!). That makes it a net win for the overall | resale platform / circular commerce ecosystem, and makes | future innovation in this space easier to finance. | | A similar situation occurred with the acquisition of MySpace, | which immediately boosted the value of all the other social | networks at the time -- the space had gone from being a bunch | of "worthless websites," to important next-gen media | platforms that might crown the next emperor. | Recruitment/funding/etc became a LOT easier after that. | purple_ferret wrote: | because they suddenly have tens of millions in their and | their shareholders' pocket. | | Let someone else worry about growth as you cash out | AznHisoka wrote: | Nothing against the business, but if one were to start a | lifestyle business, I can't think of a worse one than a | marketplace, where you have to deal with refunds, inventory, | legal issues, tons of advertising, upfront losses, etc. You're | probably better off actually selling your stuff in these | marketplaces, if you wanted a lifestyle business. | | When I think of lifestyle businesses, I think of Pinboard, or | Appointment Reminder, or a Depop/Poshmark/Etsy storefront. | dblooman wrote: | Congratulations to the team, I spent a few years at depop, great | to see them getting the recognition. | | For those interested, it is a scala shop, all terraform and AWS | on the backend | halfmatthalfcat wrote: | Warms my heart to hear about more Scala in the wild. | | We're they leveraging Akka too by chance? | darkr wrote: | Bits and pieces of Akka in a few places, but not commonly | anentropic wrote: | and of course... good old Django :P | darkr wrote: | of course, old faithful will be around for a while yet.. | | Let's go for a beer soon! | denis1 wrote: | I think it's mostly Play Framework on top of RDS in terms of | Scala usage. | whimsicalism wrote: | Of course, Play is on top of Akka | denis1 wrote: | You can use Play and not care about Akka that much. I | think the original question was about using Akka | directly. | desarun wrote: | Not for long. A few services are moving away from scala to | kotlin (ktor), probably more to follow. | raviisoccupied wrote: | This is a great move from Etsy. I believe the future of fashion | is high quality items being bought, resold, or rented. | | I don't think this because it's better for the environment | (though it is), it's because I think young consumers genuinely | want to consume fashion this way. They want to be seen in higher | quality clothing, and the Depop model of buy and sell is the way | to attain that. | reader_mode wrote: | >I believe the future of fashion is high quality items being | bought, resold, or rented. | | What kind of fabric that can withstand the stress of wearing, | washing, drying and still be comfortable to wear and retain the | look ? | | Sure rugged outdoors stuff or comfort clothes that you don't | care about stretching out and discolouring. But stuff like | sweaters, jeans, etc. doesn't seem to matter how much money I | pay - I get a more comfy fabric and better production quality - | but durability wise it's nowhere near close to the jump in | price. | Bayart wrote: | >What kind of fabric that can withstand the stress of | wearing, washing, drying and still be comfortable to wear and | retain the look ? | | Whool, if you know how to care for it. Suits can easily last | decades. | | Everything made out of cotton, including bespoke shirts, is | by default more or less a consummable and doesn't really | enter the range of long term/valuable fashion. | reader_mode wrote: | I think suits last decades if you wear them occasionally - | but I doubt you'll get daily use out of pants without | wearing them out. | | And having to care for things (special washing etc.) isn't | really practical for most things which is why I doubt we | will get this shift in trends. | | Maybe if we get some new revolutionary fabrics. | | I wonder if there was an innovation where you'd get a comfy | and super durable fabric but it costs 10x of regular | clothes - would people go for it. | Bayart wrote: | There's plenty of fabric innovation going on. Not just in | techwear (where you get your high end outdoors stuff), | but also in more traditional fashion. Off the top of my | head I've seen the Techmerino stuff from Zegna (which | fits the bill of your super fabric, including the cost), | the nylon/spandex hybrid Seagale uses (don't know who | makes that), the technical wool/silk/polyurethane blends | from VBC (they call that line _Earth, Wind and Fire_ ). | addicted wrote: | What do you think the vintage fashion market is? | | Vintage clothing is more expensive than the fast fashion | stuff you can buy for 2 reasons. The clothes are more durable | (they've lasted at least 2-3 decades) and they are less | cookie cutter. | dmitriid wrote: | Yes, and they are unique one-off items that managed to | survive out of millions items from the same eras/decades | that didn't. | | That's why they are expensive. | ArtWomb wrote: | Congrats! Amazing synergy. Fashion resale marketplace expected to | be worth a jaw-dropping $51B by 2023. | | https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/retail/etsy-buys-... | | Etsy is a GCP case study in public cloud infra migration, moving | from 2000+ on-prem bare metal servers | | Etsy: Migrating to Cloud (Cloud Next '19) | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gdm5Jcoajg | grouphugs wrote: | the problem with the nazis needing their serfs to support | themselves is there's an absurd amount of pipelines which are now | directly production line to garbage dump in a year or less. it's | cool and all that to give people homegrown alternatives to | support themselves that rely less on corporations or subjecting a | large portion of the population to unethical and often illegal | working conditions. we're running into global issues where we | really need to slow down production and relax necessity for work. | there's already enough resources to do it, but there's some | pretty clear and loud obstacles there | ChrisArchitect wrote: | I don't follow it that closely because I'm not buying a lot of | second hand or whatever but my impression of depop the last say 5 | years was that it was used alot in UK but no one in North America | yesimahuman wrote: | Good timing because it seems like Facebook marketplace now | supporting shipping (and they syndicate your store through IG, | etc) is set to disrupt this space, based on some people I know | that are selling a ton more on FB lately and complaining about | not selling anything on Depop. Will be interesting to watch how | this plays out. | avipars wrote: | I'm wondering who leaks these deals and the valuations early? | Doesn't it ruin negotiations | failwhaleshark wrote: | Younger _hipsters._ :) | | I guess it makes sense considering Etsy is geared to customers | like hippies, yuppies, yippies, punk bartenders, tattoo artists, | bicycle mechanics, and hipsters roughly 27-50. | | Expand the demos: build vs. buy. If you have the cash, buying is | faster. If you don't, sweat equity build-out into adjacent | categories and demos but it's slower. | | Edit: Oooh, the hipsters don't like being called "hipsters." | Trigg-ered. :DD That's okay, I'm half-hipster and half-yippie. | doomslice wrote: | I can't downvote yet, but your comment doesn't add much to the | discussion and is very hard to understand. And your edit is | likely to attract even more downvotes since it just completely | detracts from anything you were trying to get across. | failwhaleshark wrote: | Huh? Businesses need to expand by demographics or by | categories. This is what Amazon did. They started with books | and then continually inched their way into new categories, | new businesses, and new demographics. Zero to 1, then 1 to N. | That's how to grow a platform, or at least the holding | company that comprises a collection of platforms. Keeping | brands separate also reduce objections: Disney and (what was) | Touchstone, Toyota and Lexus, Technics and Panasonic, Trader | Joe's and Aldi. | jokethrowaway wrote: | I knew about Depop since they were a tiny startup and I never | thought they would grow so much! | | Well done! | | And that's a humbling reminder I'm crap at picking startup | unicorns and the equities I'm negotiating as employment are | probably worthless. | berkes wrote: | > the equities I'm negotiating as employment are probably | worthless. | | In this phase, it is all about spread. VCs and the likes invest | in, say, 100 startups, because they know only one needs to | success so they can write off the other 99. | | You, as employee, however, cannot work at 100 startups and get | paid in equity. So statistically, the equity you receive from | the company you work now, is quite probably worthless. | | At least, that is how I treat it: nice addition, interesting to | keep me and my co-workers focused on revenue, but statistically | worthless in the long run. | fatfox wrote: | Back in 2016, Depop's founder, Simon Beckerman, was on an episode | of BBC's The Bottom Line podcast about "The Youth Market" [1]. He | explained his motivation behind starting Depop (app-driven | alternative to eBay with a social element) and I thought it was | quite insightful. | | [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b080xk99 | ultim8k wrote: | I've heard he's now building an app with similar philosophy | about food. | dominotw wrote: | https://www.delli.market/ | wdb wrote: | Ah the company that requires you to sign a NDA before you can | enter their office, and think it still hasn't been voided by | them. Not a fan ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-06-02 23:00 UTC)