[HN Gopher] UK and EU launch antitrust probes into Facebook ___________________________________________________________________ UK and EU launch antitrust probes into Facebook Author : helsinkiandrew Score : 129 points Date : 2021-06-04 11:44 UTC (11 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.ft.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com) | mrweasel wrote: | From: | https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_... | | > We will look in detail at whether this data gives Facebook an | undue competitive advantage | | Isn't that a lose/lose for Facebook? Either the answer is "Yes" | and they'll be fined or it's "No" which makes advertisers | question whether or not they could get the same product cheaper | elsewhere. | indy wrote: | Advertisers will be aware that Facebook will argue "No" when | the reality is "Yes" | asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: | Another alternative would be that Facebook will acknowledge | that it gives them an advantage, but argue that that advantage | is not undue. I would assume that whenever a firm does a thing, | it is because that thing is advantageous or else reduces some | disadvantage. That is as it should be. The trouble is when the | advantages stack up to create monopoly power and/or run afoul | of consumer or industry protection laws. | goatinaboat wrote: | Probe, probe, probe, that's all they ever do. But they know and | Facebook knows that no action will ever be taken | rvz wrote: | Well the United States v Google case is still there. Would have | been much better if Facebook was the target at the time but who | knows. | | The case would probably end up getting thrown out altogether. | kaesar14 wrote: | Unfortunately this is probably the case. I don't see any | alternative to the US pursuing an actual antitrust case against | Facebook. No other lawmaking body has the full power over | Facebook that's needed to hold them accountable. | hadrien01 wrote: | The article is paywalled, here's the EC announcement: | https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_... | SecurityLagoon wrote: | Pay-walled news should be banned on HN unless it really is the | only source. There are a bunch of outlets not hiding this story | behind one and linking to a paywall is just terrible for | engagement. | | Here is the UK announcement | https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-investigates-facebook... | helsinkiandrew wrote: | I did a quick search for other news sites with the story | before posting but couldn't find (this page appears to be | free to view if you have an account) | | It's on Reuters and Bloomberg now: | | https://www.reuters.com/technology/eu-antitrust- | regulators-i... | | https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/facebook-is- | vestager... | dang wrote: | If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users usually post | workarounds in the thread. | | This is in the FAQ at | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's more | explanation here: | | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so. | .. | | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 | chrisseaton wrote: | Posting pay-walled sites is not banned here, but complaining | about them _is_ , so please don't bore everyone with it. | Opt_Out_Fed_IRS wrote: | Can I ask a question? | | Zuck has structured the company in such a way that he'll be at | the helm until he is 90 or gets bored. | | Given this situation why doesn't he attack regulators and | politcians who attack him? | | In the long run acquiring the reputation of somebody who doesn't | just lay there and take it would serve him and the company | better. | | It seems to me that after 2/3 years of disputes, he'd acquire | such reputation and would be left alone. No politician has enough | political goodwill to sign off a Facebook breakup and survive, | not even Biden himself, so why doesn't he make this clear for the | doubters on Wall Street. | | By making it clear I mean going on the attack , knowing that they | can't do much to hurt him. | | As these news drop he should be saying stuff like: | | "They are trying to destroy and disintegrate Facebook and | Instagram" | | Seems to me Facebook and companies in general have to enter the | culture wars battlefield | stevespang wrote: | Hey Zuck, enjoy your day, arsehole ! | varispeed wrote: | It's 5 years too late, however it is welcome still. | | It's a shame that it is missing the most important part where | company such as Facebook gets their competitive advantage over | smaller local companies - that is tax avoidance. You cannot | compete with a company that has a significantly smaller tax | burden than yours. | | I think the UK and EU should be looking at creativity of | accounting, how money flows between entities and how profits | disappear or are converted into tax free or near tax free money. | They need to look also how this money is then is being used. Is | it used for lobbying? Hostile take overs? | | I am worried that these days regulators sound tough to signal | they won't sell themselves cheap, then lobbyists get involved and | the whole issue melts away, except that another cohort of | politicians get rich. It's a vicious circle. | TacticalCoder wrote: | > I think the UK and EU should be looking at creativity of | accounting | | I think the EU should look into the crazy high tax rates people | and companies can experience in the EU and set a hard cap, | because it is out of control. | | For a start it'd be fair games if it was legally disallowed to | tax individual at a higher tax rate than what EU servants are | paying (somewhere between 5% to 12%, while for "plebs" not | working in the EU it can quickly go above 50%. 50% + 19% social | wellfare tax in my case). | | I've personally had enough. I'm an expat now. I just created a | company with another expat, living in another continent, and we | picked a business-friendly place to incorporate. | | The EU could have had my business had they been showing some | willingness to be nice to business. But it only ever seems to | go in the way of more taxes no matter which EU country you're | in. Screw that: I'm out. | | > ... except that another cohort of politicians get rich | | That said I'm not sure politicians in the EU get very rich. | It's not the US nor Russia where you get politicians | billionaires (at least it's really not common). I don't think | the president of France, for example, is paid more than an | average SV wage (I think it's actually half that). The | uncovered bribing cases in the EU have mostly been very petty: | it's really sad for how cheap votes can be bought (say a dinner | and a week-end paid in a nice hotel). We're talking about EU | member of the European Parliament cheating on "presence | tickets" (pretending they're there to vote when they're not) to | collect about 300 EUR everytime they cheat (absenteism is so | big that they had to incentive MEP to vote by introducing | tickets were they'd get a little bonus everytime they vote). | MEPs are cheating by signing in the friday mornings (votes are | typically done on friday), so they get their 300 EUR bonus, but | then they go home for the week-end. That's petty mindset, to | make petty money, not rich. | kaesar14 wrote: | I can't think of any politicians who became billionaires | after being a US politician. Certainly some (rather famous) | examples of billionaires who ran for office but the richest | member of Congress is worth like a quarter of a billion | dollars. Are there really no EU politicians worth that kind | of money? There must be some descended-from-royalty members | of Parliament somewhere. | dboreham wrote: | Descended from royalty people generally are not wealthy. | kaesar14 wrote: | Descended from royalty, descended from old merchant | families, I just meant old money. | justapassenger wrote: | This applies to every single big company. Current tax codes | heavily promote being big company, that can afford all the tax | optimization/evasion. Our economy forces you to grow big, so | you can get benefits of scale, and have enough resources to | invest into tax optimization. | varispeed wrote: | And this is wrong as it discourages entrepreneurship and | ensures that if you are born poor, you are destined to be a | wage slave. That of course unless you get a bank loan or | capture interest of "angel investors" and share your business | with them. | toyg wrote: | _> I think the UK and EU should be looking at creativity of | accounting_ | | They are: | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/04/european-finan... | | This is something that has been decades in the making. The | combination of Covid and political-wind changes in the US seems | to have created a historic opening to address one of the | biggest issues about globalized trade. Fingers crossed that | something can be put in writing this year, it has the potential | for going into the history books just after Bretton Woods and | Maastricht. | varispeed wrote: | The article talks mostly about proposed minimum CT rate. It | seems like something FAANG companies would love to be | implemented - as they can say you see we are in the clear, | the tax avoidance measures are up and we comply... and then | they continue to hide profits, meaning business as usual. | This meeting seems like virtue signalling rather than | something with material consequences. I hope I am wrong. | toyg wrote: | FAANG are the declared target of this action, if they find | loopholes too quickly these governments will throw the book | at them. A pound of flesh is necessary, at least for some | time. I don't doubt that they'll find new loopholes | eventually, but for a while they'll have to pay more. | varispeed wrote: | CT is the easiest tax to avoid and FAANG companies can | provide states with a wealth of surveillance data. I | think it will be the business as usual. | londons_explore wrote: | The EU has done some pretty sizable fines in the past... | | The kind of fines that have to be announced to shareholders and | reduce profits substantially for a quarter... | foepys wrote: | The sad reality is that that the EU may have issued the fines | but there are so many ways to delay paying them that it takes | years for the EU to collect. I'm not even sure that Microsoft | already paid their fine for the antitrust case from 2004. | justapassenger wrote: | And at the same time eu is one of the best places to practice | tax avoidance, with all inconsistent tax codes, combined with | free market. | | Those fines are fighting symptoms. Root causes of | inconsistent law aren't targeted. And for a reason - it | allows EU to be business friendly, and at the same time keep | tools to go after companies they view unfavorable. | libertine wrote: | Shouldn't Google be probed first? | neonate wrote: | https://archive.md/InXnJ | Dolpahimide wrote: | The CMA said it would also investigate Facebook's role in online | dating via Facebook Dating, a dating profile service launched in | Europe in 2020. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-06-04 23:01 UTC)