[HN Gopher] Found at Goodwill: WebPad 1001 Prototype
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       Found at Goodwill: WebPad 1001 Prototype
        
       Author : farmerbb
       Score  : 229 points
       Date   : 2021-06-07 16:40 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (huebnerob.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (huebnerob.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | guessbest wrote:
       | Sometimes it is a bad implementation that scares engineers from a
       | pioneering piece of technology. The windows 3.1 and 95 machines
       | with pen computing for windows were quite impressive and had a
       | long career in the medical field.
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | Boot 'er up and log into AOL.
        
       | misterbwong wrote:
       | For those that read this article, I _highly_ recommend you watch
       | the 1998 COMDEX video it references. [1]
       | 
       | It's both sad and amazing that much of what we use today was
       | "coming soon" 23 years ago.
       | 
       | [1] https://archive.org/details/CC1634COMDEX
        
         | gmiller123456 wrote:
         | It's really just a laptop without a keyboard, not really that
         | groundbreaking. The inflation calculator puts the advertised
         | price at almost $1000 today. So, probably the only reason it
         | was "coming soon" was there wasn't much of a market. It's a bit
         | disingenuous to pretend that "what we use today" is the same
         | thing. Today you can get the same functionality for about $100,
         | only with modern specs. Something of equivalent specs could
         | likely be gotten for free in a landfill.
        
         | prideout wrote:
         | Interesting how the device in the video looks slightly
         | different from the prototype. I love how the 3 LEDs in the top-
         | right animate like the front of the car in Knight Rider.
         | 
         | Brings back memories to see Stewart Cheifet giving an
         | interview!
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | In '98-'99 I was working on this one:
         | 
         | https://metalab.at/wiki/Freepad
         | 
         | While it's sad, one of my biggest lessons from it was that the
         | greatest genius with the iPhone and iPad was understanding the
         | market.
         | 
         | Showing our tablet to techies worked great. People were excited
         | about the hardware, about the fact it ran Linux, about it
         | running Opera, and in general geeked out over it.
         | 
         | But it was tethered to your house - few places had more than
         | 9600 bps GSM data, so it used a DECT extension (wifi was not
         | well established) to provide an internet connection tied to
         | your house.
         | 
         | And it had a crappy resistive touch screen. Low resolution. Too
         | slow CPU. Too little RAM. Too little flash.
         | 
         | Imagine a slow, heavy tablet with low resolution and janky
         | touch that you could take no further than your garden (if you
         | were lucky).
         | 
         | So what we use today superficially looks like more modern
         | versions (that bezel size...) of things on offer back then. But
         | really a lot of the time while they worked well as prototypes,
         | we just didn't have the sense (or opportunity) to say "the time
         | isn't right for this product _yet_ , let's pick it up again
         | when x,y,z has happened."
        
           | buescher wrote:
           | I remember the guys from ViA Inc (not the same Via as the
           | processors) with their tablets tethered to their wearable
           | belt computer. They'd carry the tablet in a thigh holster.
        
           | ska wrote:
           | > greatest genius [...] was understanding the market.
           | 
           | So many people doing product development work fail to
           | understand this to their detriment.
           | 
           | You have to really screw up the engineering for it to kill a
           | product; a mediocre implementation is often times just fine,
           | especially if you are early.
           | 
           | But if you are building the wrong thing, no amount of
           | implementation talent can save you.
        
         | Gravityloss wrote:
         | Newspad, envisioned in 1968:
         | http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=529
        
         | jpfr wrote:
         | There were only 9 years between the 1998 Comdex and the iPhone
         | release in 2007. Of the 23 years we have had iPhones for 14
         | years... Time perception is sometimes strange.
        
           | sjcoles wrote:
           | The 10 year span between 2000 and 2010 also had one of the
           | largest relative uplifts in transistor density. Going from
           | 130nm to 28nm was HUGE.
           | 
           | I think people forget how quickly computers (especially in
           | efficiency!) improved from just 2000-2005 and again from
           | 2005-2010.
           | 
           | Everything has leveled out a bit until recently. I think
           | we'll see another 5 year growth spurt once stacked designs
           | become common end of 2022ish. Though TSV vs EMIB is a whole
           | other argument/ball of wax.
        
             | Nition wrote:
             | The 1990s felt similarly insane. In 1991 we we had
             | Hovertank 3D, in 1993 we had Doom, in 1998 we had Half-
             | Life, and in 2000 we had Deus Ex.
             | 
             | Go back nine years today and things don't feel that
             | different from now. People still buy Skyrim.
        
               | gamacodre wrote:
               | AR is probably in its "hovertank" era right now, after
               | years of interesting but largely useless demos.
               | 
               | Someday we're going to wonder how anyone managed to
               | navigate or buy things in shops without realtime vision
               | markup.
        
             | fernly wrote:
             | > 28nm was HUGE
             | 
             | ... so to speak.
        
             | bentcorner wrote:
             | > Everything has leveled out a bit until recently.
             | 
             | You can say that again. I'm typing this on a desktop PC
             | powered by a Xeon that is approaching 10 years old and I
             | don't have any complaints. The cost of upgrading it over
             | the years has been modest.
             | 
             | In comparison I have a Nexus 5 that is about the same age
             | and getting modern Android on it is a pain, the processor
             | really struggles and the physical device itself has seen
             | much better days.
        
           | mumblemumble wrote:
           | It's funny how much Apple dominates our memory.
           | 
           | It was only a couple years between the 1998 Comdex and when I
           | got my first wifi PalmOS device with a color screen. At some
           | point my handheld devices acquired the ability to connect
           | directly to a cellular network, which was nice, and then
           | became _really_ nice with the iPhone. But I don 't think that
           | was ever a planned feature for the WebPad in the first place.
           | 
           | The form factor is perhaps more interesting. We did have to
           | wait 12 years until Apple legitimized the idea of a device
           | along these lines that doesn't fit in a pocket.
        
           | tcse_12 wrote:
           | Isn't that the truth. I recently came across a meme that I
           | suspect will drive this point home for many in this
           | community. https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/mj9mim/loz
           | _ww_decide...
        
           | WalterBright wrote:
           | I fired up one of my old laptops from 1995 or so. It was a
           | cutting edge machine at the time, very nice. It seemed
           | completely unusable today. The tiny disk drive, for instance.
        
             | rootbear wrote:
             | For me it's the displays. Old laptops had terrible TN
             | panels and are painful to look at today. It makes them near
             | useless even for basic web browsing.
        
           | mschaef wrote:
           | The one that gets me is that ENIAC was (mostly) live in 1946
           | and the IBM PC first shipped in 1981.
           | 
           | The upshot of this is that there's more time between now and
           | the IBM PC than there is between the IBM PC and ENIAC. (18K
           | vacuum tunes, filled a room, and and was programmed via
           | physical rewiring, at least initlally.)
           | 
           | > Time perception is sometimes strange.
           | 
           | Agreed.
        
         | whizzwr wrote:
         | >there is even a .com button, so you don't have to type it out.
         | 1998? Magnificent.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | Taking that into consideration, and the many ideas that failed
         | but are now succeeding, I wonder what businesses of today will
         | fail yet be fully implemented in 20 years?
        
         | grilledcheez wrote:
         | It seems web pages loaded at least as quickly in 1998 as in
         | 2021
        
           | darknavi wrote:
           | I was about to say it looked like they loaded much faster. I
           | can't believe the bloat some websites have now.
        
         | hathawsh wrote:
         | From my perspective, screen technology was still being
         | developed. As shown in that archive.org video, CRTs were still
         | dominant at that time because they were much cheaper than large
         | full color LCDs. Those who could afford a large color LCD
         | generally preferred a laptop. Only after the price of color
         | LCDs came down did it make sense for people to buy tablets.
         | Precision multi-touch sensitivity also turned out to be a
         | turning point in adoption.
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | I imagine software was a big deal too. It's important not to
           | forget the magnitude of the advantage that iTunes delivered
           | for Apple. I think there's a sound argument to be made that,
           | without iTunes, that iOS devices would have never achieved
           | the same success.
           | 
           | iTunes provided a platform to get a critical mass of users
           | accustom to buying $0.89-$20 digital downloads. Which made
           | the transition of iTunes into an "app store" a minor one for
           | users. They are there to buy music, but maybe in the future,
           | they might find some apps for their iPhone useful.
           | 
           | Once Apple had a critical mass of developers building non-
           | trivial apps for the iPhone. It was a (kind of) baby step to
           | supporting tablets.
           | 
           | Lots of people tried to invent the tablet. I think they
           | failed because of a lack of software, rather than poor
           | hardware.
        
       | rasz wrote:
       | In a similar vein A Rudimentary Analysis of 1992 HP Omnishare
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27426134
       | 
       | Windows 3 pen computing tablet for sharing documents over a phone
       | line.
        
       | nati0n wrote:
       | Not the first time such prototypes have shown up in thrift
       | stores. Notably this has happened with both Texas Instruments [1]
       | and Xbox [2] prototypes before.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/androiddev/comments/jrbnnh/i_found_...
       | [2]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/t0d98/proto...
        
         | iforgotpassword wrote:
         | Every time this happens I'm curious how it ended up there.
         | Someone just bringing a box of junk to goodwill and actually
         | not caring, or is someone having an "oh shit" moment when they
         | read this because they didn't actually check the box that
         | thoroughly? The sadder story, and the older the tech the more
         | likely, is that the person who owned it isn't with us anymore,
         | and this is just someone cleaning up their house.
        
           | monocasa wrote:
           | If I had to guess that Xbox was a take home unit for testing
           | Xbox Live. The production date was about a year after retail
           | release, and a home unit for testing an early version of live
           | is the kind of thing that could end up in an ex's garage and
           | goodwilled.
        
           | eric__cartman wrote:
           | Maybe they know it's a prototype and purposefully
           | "accidentally sell it" just to see who ends up buying it.
           | Especially if it's a prototype for an old tech product, the
           | company that made it either doesn't exist anymore, or the
           | device is so old they just don't care.
        
       | flakiness wrote:
       | I live in Bay Area and like visiting Goodwill.
       | 
       | Although I haven't seen anything as cool as the one in this
       | article, sometimes there are coffee mugs or T-shirts of failed
       | startups and large companies that are gone long time ago, or
       | lovely T-shirts that used to be sold in Cupertino Apple store.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Goodwill in the PNW is great too with lots of Microsoft "not
         | for sale" items.
        
           | HoppyHaus wrote:
           | I was able to get a MS t-shirt with the Windows Defender logo
           | on the front with "XP SP2" below it and "SECURITY" on the
           | back.
           | 
           | It's absurd and I love it
        
           | incanus77 wrote:
           | Not as much prototype stuff (at least not yet for me) but
           | good stuff in Portland, too. I'm looking forward to getting
           | back post-COVID.
        
             | dawnerd wrote:
             | Early last year they had a handful of what appeared to be
             | pre-production Microsoft wireless display adapters at the
             | Baseline location. None of the info printed on it matched
             | retail units as far as I could tell.
             | 
             | Prices have been crazy since they've re-opened. They have a
             | bunch of Apple devices in right now, some company dropped
             | off a ton.
        
           | flakiness wrote:
           | PNW?
        
             | CrazedGeek wrote:
             | Pacific Northwest:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest
        
             | geocrasher wrote:
             | The Pacific NorthWet. Er, West. Seattle, etc.
        
             | deeblering4 wrote:
             | Pistachio Nut Waffles
        
             | quwert95 wrote:
             | "Pacific NorthWest". Basically, near Microsoft's main
             | Redmond campus.
        
             | bgoldste wrote:
             | Pacific Northwest, in the Northwestern US. Where
             | Microsoft/Amazon/others are
             | based...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Far_Pig wrote:
             | Pacific northwest (USA)
        
             | fortran77 wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNW
        
         | squidbot wrote:
         | I miss Mike Quinn and Weird Stuff. I haunted them in my youth
         | and made all kinds of crazy projects.
        
       | smoyer wrote:
       | @gibberish - I've got a working PCMCIA Wi-Fi adapter in my junk
       | bin if you're interested.
        
         | deusum wrote:
         | Here's hoping the kernel supports it.
         | 
         | Linux wifi was extra iffy back then iirc. Might need a
         | proprietary blob.
        
           | floren wrote:
           | An Orinoco card should be a safe bet (I've got a bunch
           | stashed in the closet, if OP needed one...) but you'll also
           | want to set up a separate wifi network so you can run 802.11b
           | without exposing your whole home.
        
             | ok123456 wrote:
             | Cisco cards also worked pretty well back then too.
        
       | satya71 wrote:
       | I was at National Semiconductor at the time. National used to own
       | quite a bit of the non-processor silicon on computers of the
       | time. When National bought Cyrix, Intel made sure National lost
       | all those sockets.
        
       | leeter wrote:
       | Seems like an LGR oddware candidate, along with other eyeopener
       | devices like this.
        
       | SavantIdiot wrote:
       | Wow, forgot all about Cyrix (and Nexgen): Circa 1996 they were a
       | legit threat to Intel, in fact, that's part of the reason why
       | Celeron was born.
       | 
       | What a find!
        
         | nereye wrote:
         | And IDT/Centaur's WinChip, (later acquired by VIA, which then
         | shipped the C3, Nano, etc,).
         | 
         | There is a good documentary on the Centaur, unfortunately no
         | comments when it came up in HN 3 years ago:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17471685.
        
       | evo wrote:
       | I always find these orphaned technological branches compelling,
       | in part, because it's so easy to point to the success story and
       | treat it like it was a singular invention. We hold up the iPhone
       | as a miracle but forget the Newton and PalmPilot.
       | 
       | It's a good antidote to the narrative that either an idea is
       | sufficient for success, or that success is a function of the
       | idea. It's important, sure, but a fair bit of it is having the
       | timing, resources, and luck to throw ideas against the wall until
       | the world is ready for it, either due to cultural factors,
       | missing infrastructure now built out, or other underlying
       | technological evolutions meeting up together.
        
         | pram wrote:
         | Despite the hyperbole in the article characterizing it as the
         | first iPad, this thing is literally a low-budget x86 laptop
         | without a keyboard. I wouldn't exactly call it an orphaned
         | technological branch.
        
         | scarby2 wrote:
         | Not just the Newton and palmpilot but the the PocketPC phones
         | that came immediately before it.
         | 
         | When the iPhone came out i had an HTC TyTN 2 which unlike the
         | iPhone could do turn by turn navigation, send SMS/MMS to
         | multiple recipients, and act as a 3g modem for my computer
         | while i was traveling. I also adored the pull out keyboard,
         | which until the advent of swype was by far the fastest input
         | method for a mobile device.
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | And Blackberry 7200s.
           | 
           | RIM proved that there was demand for smartphones long before
           | the iPhone hit the market.
        
           | gandalfian wrote:
           | I had a remaindered tytn 2 as well. Even with a walk through
           | configuring the mobile internet was a bizzare tricky maze. On
           | an iPhone you just inserted a SIM, put in the APN and
           | everything worked? I can see why the iPhone won.
           | 
           | Not to mention the irony that Microsoft quickly abandoned its
           | own platform so the only people keeping it a useable device
           | were Opera, Gmail and Google maps. The Microsoft browser
           | couldn't even cope with the Microsoft website.
        
         | thereddaikon wrote:
         | I'd even go so far as to say the idea is the easy part. Tablet
         | computers are an old idea, they had them on Star Trek TNG.
         | Engineers have been trying to make the PADD a reality pretty
         | much since the first episode. iPad wasn't the first attempt, it
         | was the last.
         | 
         | It wasn't even Apple's first. And unlike the ones that came
         | before it actually did reasonably well at matching the
         | depiction. It got the relative size, weight and pick up and
         | just use experience.
         | 
         | But nobody at Apple would have known the tech was ready if
         | people hadn't been trying over and over to do it for the
         | previous 20 years.
         | 
         | New tech is almost never an original invention that came from
         | nowhere. The internet was built on decades of research
         | specifically into networking computers together but also built
         | on almost a century's worth of development into the phone
         | network. The experiments that lead to radar date to not long
         | after radio became practical. The Wright bro's weren't the
         | first to try an airplane, they were the first to make it work.
         | and so on.
         | 
         | Its the implementation that matters.
        
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       (page generated 2021-06-07 23:00 UTC)