[HN Gopher] Processed foods became so unhealthy ___________________________________________________________________ Processed foods became so unhealthy Author : HiroProtagonist Score : 26 points Date : 2021-06-10 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago) (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com) (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com) | the-dude wrote: | I think the article is pretty thin on the _low fat foods_. | symlinkk wrote: | Processed foods aren't unhealthy. Unhealthy foods are unhealthy. | The latter is a subset of the former. | crazygringo wrote: | > _" The problem is that, in the past half century, a different | type of food processing has been developed," says Fernanda | Rauber, a nutritional epidemiologist at the University of Sao | Paulo, Brazil, about what we now call ""ultra-processed foods". | "These substances would not be found in our kitchen. Usually, | they contain little to no proportion of real foods."_ | | This is ridiculous. Processed (or "ultra-processed") foods are | mainly flour (wheat, corn, etc.), sugar (sugarcane, sugar beet), | and refined oils (soy, canola). All of these are found in the | kitchen and are very much "real foods". | | Yes, processed foods include small amounts of ingredients like | emulsifiers and natural flavors, but by weight they're a tiny | proportion. The idea that they make up most or all of a product | by weight is utterly ludicrous. | | It's fine and good to be aware that processed food doesn't | contain the "antioxidants and phytochemicals" found in | unprocessed foods, and they may be calorie-dense and low in | fiber. But it's unhelpful and utterly dishonest when | nutritionists or scientists make absurd claims about processed | foods being made mostly out of ingredients not found in our own | kitchens. | dilap wrote: | Refined seed oils contain polyunsaturated fats (and more | specifically, omega-6 polyunsaturated fats, and more | specifically yet, linoleic acid) in far higher concentrations | than traditional foods. I believe this is the main thing that | makes processed food unhealthy, and, indeed, is the main driver | of the epidemic of the so-called "diseases of civilization" | (obesity, diabetes, cancer, etc) that most of the world is | experiencing. | | This series of blog posts does an excellent job of summarizing | the evidence: | | https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/what-causes-chronic-disease | bumby wrote: | What are the main causal hypotheses regarding why seed oils | lead to obesity? I didn't see much in the article regarding | the mechanism that links the two. | | I know Catherine Shanahan has written about this link and | talks about how easily seed oils cause inflammation through | free radicals. But how do we get from inflammation to | obesity? | c54 wrote: | I think this retort is sorta factually correct but missing the | author's point. Totally true that by mass the preservatives | aren't a lot, but that doesn't mean the refined products of | naturally occurring plants are 'real foods' in the sense the | author intends it. | | One way to think of this is that a food which is refined moves | further and further away from the original 'real food' as it | naturally occurs. ~80% of a wheat 'corn' is the white part, | ~20% of a soy bean is oil, and 15-20% of a beet is sugar. | | Similarly, one apple yields about 1/3c of juice. Drinking 2c | worth of juice (in an hour?) is fairly common but nobody ever | eats 6 apples in an hour | crazygringo wrote: | The quoted epidemiologist says "These substances would not be | found in our kitchen." | | I'm not disagreeing at all about refinement or the health. | I'm just saying these refined substances are _absolutely_ | found in our kitchen, and used in quantity. They 're nothing | special or unique to processed foods. | | If you bake bread or cake or brownies, for basic recipes it's | nutritionally virtually identical to processed crackers, | cookies, and bars. | drewcoo wrote: | This is the other half of that quote, if we want to take it | in context: "Usually, they contain little to no proportion | of real foods." | | And those sentences were likely in a larger context but | chosen by the author as a way to say something the reader | could relate to. | t0mbstone wrote: | This rambling article talks about the earl of sandwich and the | origins of soda and some early food processing methods for things | like chocolate. | | The article doesn't say anything meaningful or interesting about | how processed foods actually became unhealthy, though, and it | also doesn't even talk about modern processed food. | | What a waste of time. | reedjosh wrote: | Well, it is the BBC. | bitexploder wrote: | Not to be pessimistic, but this is very typical of most food | science + health journalism. The odds someone really did their | research and didn't just start with whatever the current food | and health trends are and work an article (poorly) backwards | from there is very low. | [deleted] | stakkur wrote: | Processed food always has two goals: | | 1. Minimize cost of production; real food is expensive. | | 2. Make processed food last as long as possible (preservatives). | | But the simpler explanation is that 'processed food' isn't food | at all, it's a 'food product' make to _resemble_ food. | dragontamer wrote: | Please explain the preservatives found in a can of tomato | paste. Lets take... Hunt's tomato paste, a popular brand. | | Hint: the preservative is "Citric Acid", also known as lemon- | juice. A wee bit more acidity negates any chance of botulism | (which just barely can live in the PH of Tomato-acid. But add a | squeeze of lemon to it and make it slightly more acidic and | this rare bacteria is taken care of). | | Otherwise, you're looking at just mashed up tomatoes + a | squeeze of lemon inside of a can. No joke, nothing else is in | there. | | ------- | | The other aspect of "preserving" is the airtight can, which | prevents other organisms (other bacteria, mold, fungus) from | entering the can. | | Any tomato paste can you find is basically using this | technique. | | -------- | | Other canned veggies are even more pure. Canned corn is just | heated (at the factory) to a temperature that kills botulism | spores. A lot of cans add salt for flavor, but you can easily | buy salt-free cans and get pure corn if that's your preference. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | Can someone explain to me how the difference of a molecule of | some protein is any different when it's processed? How does my | body know when I'm eating processed foods vs non processed? | | I'm under the impression that when I eat food, my stomach | converts it to a liquid, which then gets further "processed" | through my digestive system, eventually absorbed in my blood | stream. Is it the residual stuff that my body cannot break down | but was unable to convert to fecal matter along the way that | feeds into my blood stream the bad thing? Or is it still just | straight up ignorance because people are afraid of having yet | another process abstracted from their daily lives? | retzkek wrote: | It's not so much that the food molecules are different, but the | amounts that ultimately makes something "unhealthy." It's right | there in the first paragraph: | | > high-fat, high-sugar, high-salt diets | | Much like how the attention industry has refined | advertisements, games, news, etc to become exceedingly | effective at targeting the pleasure areas of the brain, making | us want to consume more, so too has the food industry. | | Humans have evolved to find pleasure in eating fat, sugar, and | salt, as the former are excellent sources of energy, and the | latter is required by many processes ("Brawndo, it's got what | plants crave!"). Processed food has optimized, distilled, and | combined these components into foods that could never be found | in nature, and which our bodies are ill-equipped for. | munk-a wrote: | Just as an aside (and I'm ready for this to get downvoted | because I'm discussing voting - don't feel guilty) - this | comment raises a number of interesting points for the | discussion, please don't blindly down vote it because either 1) | you disagree with it or 2) hanging out on reddit and being | exposed to sealioning makes you assume everyone with a question | is a troll. It's well worded, intellectually curious and a | helpful root for discussion. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _how the difference of a molecule of some protein is any | different when it 's processed?_ | | Not a nutritionist, but I believe the answer falls into two | broad categories. | | One, chemical: processed foods frequently contain additives, | _e.g._ preservatives, that less-processed food doesn 't. | | Two, physical: a peach smoothie is digested and hits your | bloodstream differently from a whole peach. They're chemically | identical but physically different, and that changes everything | from how quickly you ingest it, how much of it you ingest, how | it hits the stomach and how it hits your gut. | aaron-santos wrote: | Processing can also mean separating out parts of foods to | exclude them from the product. Take fiber for example. | Processing an ingredient to reduce or remove its fiber | doesn't change the molecular make up of the remaining portion | of the ingredient. The molecules in = molecules out (minus | the fiber). | | However, fiber lowers cholesterol levels by preventing | cholesterol from being absorbed, and slows the absorption of | glucose. When we examine the modulating effects of | ingredients and couple that to biological non-linearities, | it's not too hard to see how processing can affect how food | interacts with the body. Reduced fiber foods, can affect the | body in ways different from non-processed food even if the | molecules being ingested are identical to those in the | original ingredients. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | But why does that matter? Assuming the caloric intake is the | same, how does eating a peach smoothie differ from eating a | peach? They are the same and get liquified the same. I mean | technically when you eat you're supposed to have it mashed up | enough that your stomach has to do little as little work as | possible (so equivalent to a smoothie as possible). I still | don't see how that makes a difference. | | Back to the additives, what difference does it make if your | body properly disposes of it because it can't break it down | and it doesn't get absorbed by you? Or...does it get absorbed | by you (which is what I'm partially asking)? | notshift wrote: | If you made a peach smoothie out of nothing but pure | peaches, it would be identical to eating the peaches, I'm | sure. | | I am also not a nutritionist, but from my reading processed | foods are bad because (1) they just have far fewer | nutrients, vitamins and minerals that our body needs to | function, (2) the additives and chemicals that are added | sometimes harm our body directly and/or require the body to | dedicate resources towards removing, or (3) they harm our | microbiome by feeding bad bacteria which similarly produce | stuff that isn't good for your body and damaging the good | bacteria which we need. | chadcmulligan wrote: | Chemistry occurs at the surface of the food - if you have | lumps of peaches in your stomach then they have to be | digested, ie broken down. If you drink a smoothie then | the surface area available to chemical reactions is a lot | larger, so digestion happens quicker. Quicker digestion | of sugars causes a larger insulin spike, which is bad. | Also commercial smoothies usually have a lot more sugar | and fat in them than you'd think, I know you said just | blended peaches, but in reality everyone adds stuff to | it. | JumpCrisscross wrote: | > _If you made a peach smoothie out of nothing but pure | peaches, it would be identical to eating the peaches, I | 'm sure_ | | Mastication matters. A peach smoothie is to a whole peach | as a pill chewed is to itself swallowed. | munk-a wrote: | > how does eating a peach smoothie differ from eating a | peach? | | I think that eating a peach smoothie, one where you just | take a peach and some ice - throw them in a blender and mix | away, is no different from eating a peach[1] but ordering a | peach smoothie at Jugo Juice is not peach in a glass, it's | some peach and added juice (containing added sugar) and | added sugar also some ice, probably with added sugar - all | mixed together with some "healthy protein base" which is | probably a bit of whey with added sugar - basically a | smoothie ends up having very little relationship to the | fruit. | | _Additionally_ if you slurrify raspberries you can drink | them by the dozen in a single gulp - while eating them by | hand you 'll strike a more leisurely pace and stop once | you're feeling full - often times with smoothies and the | like we'll over consume because it takes a while for our | body to actually realize we're full. | | 1. Maybe a slight loss of healthy stuff due to fibers | separating out and not ending up in the juice but ideally | that's negligible. | yumaikas wrote: | Often some additives may get absorbed by your gut. | | A smoothie vs a peach may well have different glycemic | indices. Few people chew their few up to the extent that a | bender will break it down. Also, how many peaches go into a | smoothie, and how much extra sugar via, say, yogurt, or | smoothie mix? | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | We're not talking about a peach smoothie at jamba juice, | we're talking about blending peaches vs eating it raw and | chewing it with your teeth. The molecular makeup of the | food is 100% the same, the difference is it's physical | attributes of it as you ingest it. | msandford wrote: | > Assuming the caloric intake is the same, how does eating | a peach smoothie differ from eating a peach? | | Your body has regular teeth. Most people don't chew even 30 | times per bite. | | A blender has mega-ultra-turbo teeth that are both way, way | sharper than a person's and also they never get tired | because they're powered by electricity not muscles. | | How much chewing do you think is equivalent to blending? My | very unscientific guess is that blending is something like | 1000 chews per bite or more given that our teeth aren't as | sharp as blender blades. | | Eventually quantitative differences (number of chews) | become qualitative (sugars and starches encapsulated in | small bits vs chemically liberated). Blenders do a lot of | the work of digestion mechanically well before your body | has a chance to do it chemically. | jbotz wrote: | Of all the things that are different about processed foods | that have been mentioned in this thread, this is probably | the least important, but yes, there is still a | difference... they don't "get liquified the same", because | when you eat a whole peach you chew it, and when you chew | it your mouth is mixing the pulp with digestive enzymes (in | your saliva) and also priming the digestive juices in your | stomach to adjust for the pH of the incoming matter! This | turns out to be important enough that many nutritionists | for over a century have emphasized the importance of eating | slowly and chewing thoroughly. You can't really do that | with a smoothie. | | Extracting energy and nutrients from food is highly | optimized by evolution for obvious reasons, even in the | case of omnivores such as ourselves. Modern | "ultraprocessed" food is not adaptive. | path2power wrote: | > Assuming the caloric intake is the same, how does eating | a peach smoothie differ from eating a peach? | | Increasing the number of masticatory cycles is associated | with reduced appetite and altered postprandial plasma | concentrations of gut hormones, insulin and glucose [0] | | [0]https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge- | core/c... | | TL;DR It's not just about calories, it's about what the | food makes you do later. | dtech wrote: | Multiple reasons, among the most important: | | Modern processed foods have very little fiber and other non- | processed parts, making you full slower causing you to overeat. | A glass of coke has 140 calories, and so has 2-3 apples. You'll | stop eating after 3 apples but can easily have 2 glasses of | coke. | | The above also causes blood sugar to spike drastically | immediately after eating processed foods, causing you to create | a high amount of insulin, drastically lowering blood sugar and | creating fat. Low blood sugar then causes you to become hungry | soon after. This is the famous "hungry 2 hours after eating | McDonalds" efffect. Non-processed foods are digested much more | gradual. | | The calories are more empty. Lots of sugar and fat, not much | protein and micro-nutrients like minerals and vitamins. | | They are made so you can't stop eating them, e.g. bliss point | [1]. They hack our reward centers to so it feels so good to eat | you'll overeat. You wouldn't eat 20 sugar cubes in one sitting | but will eat a tub of Ben and Jerry's. | | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bliss_point_(food) | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: | > [...] very little fiber [...] making you full slower [...] | You'll stop eating after 3 apples [...] | | Every time someone repeats this sort of thing I have to laugh | to myself a little. If only it were so easy to keep my body | from constantly craving more calories! | acchow wrote: | > If only it were so easy to keep my body from constantly | craving more calories | | Try protein shakes. Or other high-protein foods. | | But if you've made your body accustomed to a diet high in | simple carbs (esp sugars), you need to break that cycle as | well. | munk-a wrote: | The main difference between processed foods and fresh foods are | 1) preservatives and 2) flavour enhancement - for the first | goal we use things like salt to increase the shelf life of the | product which has the side effect of shifting most folks over | to having a higher expectation of salt content in their food in | general - for the later salt is also useful (along with | specific flavour enhancers like MSG), but sugar is far easier | to throw in and get more bang for your buck. | | I can cook a meal and freeze it for a while reheat it and enjoy | it - to allow it to survive (with a decent taste) long bouts of | freezer burn and going stale I need to load that sucker up with | a bunch of salt and sugar so that I don't care that the food | tastes like cardboard. | | I can't speak to any molecular effects - those may also exist - | but most of why processed food is bad for you is just to make | it taste really really good so you'll come back for more - even | if you're not hungry! Yay obesity! | | I imagine at some point in the future folks are going to look | at the diet of the late 20th century like we look at covering | your baby's crib with lead based paint. | mahgnous wrote: | And people think this lab grown meat and artificial meat is gonna | be any better nutritionally... | open-source-ux wrote: | Somewhat related...a 2018 study of 19 European countries ranks | countries by how much 'ultra-processed' food is purchased by | households in those countries. | | The UK takes first place, followed by Germany, Ireland, Belgium | and Finland. | | Countries that purchase the least amount of 'ultra-processed' | food include Portugal, Italy, Greece and France. | | See the map listed in this article for the full country ranking: | | https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/02/ultra-proces... ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-06-10 23:01 UTC)