[HN Gopher] Doing something is better than doing nothing for mos... ___________________________________________________________________ Doing something is better than doing nothing for most people: study (2014) Author : looperhacks Score : 200 points Date : 2021-06-13 13:21 UTC (9 hours ago) (HTM) web link (news.virginia.edu) (TXT) w3m dump (news.virginia.edu) | DangitBobby wrote: | It is supremely uncomfortable inside some people's heads. | fighterpilot wrote: | More generally, it is supremely uncomfortable inside some | people's _bodies_. I don 't just mean someone with physical | pain. Anxiety, depression and other disorders are a whole-body | experience. | carapace wrote: | I believe this is a wildly underappreciated fact: Most folks | are miserable, and most of us don't realize it due to a kind | of "fish don't notice water" effect. | | > Under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this | planet every person you meet should be regarded as one of the | walking wounded. We have never seen a man or woman not | slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. We have never | seen a totally sane human being. | | ~Robert Anton Wilson | ambivalents wrote: | A good illustration of this is riding the NYC subway. I think | most people would choose a slower-moving local line if it shows | up before the more efficient express line, even if the express | would get you to your destination sooner. | elzbardico wrote: | I used to do that with bus lines, provided I could get a seat. | Between 20 mins standing + 20 mins crowded fast bus line | (standing) and 60 minutes comfortably seated with no wait, I | always choose the later. But, I may be the exception, as I find | riding the bus a pleasurable activity. | paulcarroty wrote: | I treat "doing nothing" as failure. It's normal to be bored, | confused, tired sometimes, but you should have a goal & move | forward, _always_. | paulcole wrote: | I treat doing nothing as success. I opted out of the working | world for 3 years in my 20s (lived cheaply off savings) and did | little more than watch movies/tv, read, and walk/exercise. | | Had no goals and no ambitions and loved every moment of it. | nickkell wrote: | What if your goal is to do nothing? | SuchAnonMuchWow wrote: | Not related to the content of the article, but am I the only one | bothered with the way the article spell ranges: "six to 15 | minutes", "Twelve of 18 men", "six of 24 females" ... | [deleted] | [deleted] | temp8964 wrote: | It is in the APA style guide: "In addition to using words to | express numbers below 10, use words to also express: | | Numbers beginning a sentence, title, or text heading" | | https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/research_and_citation/apa6_style/... | sp332 wrote: | That is in tension with using numerals for "Numbers that | represent statistical or mathematical functions, fractional | or decimal quantities, percentages, ratios..." And the tie- | breaker is below: | | _If you're unsure which modifier to write and which to | express numerically, try it both ways. Be sure the way you | express the numbers is in the clearest way possible._ | Jiocus wrote: | Yes but at least they are consistent with the pattern _word_ of | _numeral_ , which is often a good rule to use if not employing | a specific styleguide. | | For example, using the APA guide[1] for numbers (thanks @OJFord | for pointing out my error): "Six to 15", "12 of 18", Six of | 24". | | Edit: As @temp8964 correctly pointed out, there are situations | where words are recommended[2]. | | - | | [1]: https://apastyle.apa.org/ | | [2]: https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar- | guidelines/numbers/wo... | OJFord wrote: | Don't you have that backwards? I'm not familiar with APA | style guide but I was taught at school (UK) to use words | below ten (at least, and to be consistent, i.e. saying 'ten' | just then is fine as long as I don't now start saying '10' or | '11') - I'd be surprised if APA advocated exactly the | opposite, based on your example. | Jiocus wrote: | Hah! You're right, of course. My mind must have been | elsewhere when writing the example, considering that I was | literally reading the APA guide and thinking of the rule | you laid out while at it. | mattkrause wrote: | Switching within a phrase, like "six to 15", strikes me as | pointless hobgobblin-ey consistency, especially when the | numbers are close to the cutoff. | | I find it so much more jarring than either "six to fifteen" | or "6-15." | the_only_law wrote: | Now if only I could bring myself to actually do something. | clircle wrote: | I think the headline 'doing something is _better_ than doing | nothing ' is a bit misleading. Based on my reading on the | article, maybe it should be 'people would rather do something | than not' because the researchers studied preferences, not | utilities. | failwhaleshark wrote: | Idleness is rust. | swayvil wrote: | If you have a habit and you cease that constant, habitual action. | It looks a bit like doing and and it also looks a bit like not- | doing. | | And habits are often completely invisible. | | So that's something to consider. | jonplackett wrote: | This reminds me of a clip of Louis CK talking about losing the | ability to just sit with your own thoughts and be really sad. | | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c&t=53s | | Shame he turned out to be a sexual deviant because he said some | interesting things. | reidjs wrote: | I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his entire act because of | what he did. Watch his latest special to see his perspective. | He's not exactly Bill Cosby. | watwut wrote: | Bill Cosby is rather low bar. | carapace wrote: | > I wouldn't be so quick... | | I was a big fan of Louis CK, it took me about five days to | internalize what he did and decide that his career was over | as far as I'm concerned. It broke my heart. The guy is a | creep and I can't watch him anymore. | | Compare and contrast with what happened to Paul Reubens. He | was arrested for masturbating during a film at an adult movie | theater. He didn't force people to watch him like Louis CK | allegedly did. It took eight years for his career to revive, | and he arguably never fully recovered. | | > In July 1991, Reubens was arrested for indecent exposure in | an adult theater in Sarasota, Florida. The arrest set off a | chain reaction of national media attention that changed the | general public's view of Reubens and Pee-wee.[3] The arrest | postponed Reubens' involvement in major projects until 1999 | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Reubens#1991_arrest_and_r. | .. | hedberg10 wrote: | "One bad thought ruins entirety of humans other thoughts, they | are now null and void. News at eleven!" | watwut wrote: | Tho, he did nor had one bad thought. | | Issue is, he had multiple bad actions that actually harmed | people. And he had worldview that rationalized those actions | as something ok to do. | jonplackett wrote: | What's that quote from? | arthurcolle wrote: | GP is making a statement in jest | alisonkisk wrote: | Poor use of sarcasm (as most sarcasm is). | anonomousename wrote: | How come? I'd argue that he made a decent point - one bad | action of an individual doesn't invalidate everything | else they've done. Using sarcasm can turn a bland, | potentially combative statement like that into a joke. | alisonkisk wrote: | Two sides of a coin. "Deviant" and "interesting" are the same | kinds behaviors but with different value judgements. | elliekelly wrote: | I don't think "deviant" is the right word to describe CK's | abhorrent behavior at all. Being different isn't a bad thing. | Rex Ryan is a "deviant". Sure, some people may judge him but | there's nothing inherently harmful or unethical about what he | chooses to do for sexual gratification. CK might be a deviant | in that others don't find gratification the way he apparently | does but his deviance isn't the issue. This issue is that | he's sexually exploitative of others. | jonplackett wrote: | I'm unsure if you're saying I shouldn't be criticising him | or should be more critical? | | If he'd just been doing something sexually odd on his own I | have no issue with almost anything that might be - but what | he was doing abused his power and hurt other people. | sfgweilr4f wrote: | Maybe. But I've also just gone deep into what most people would | call a forest and just sit there for more than 2 hours. No music. | No notebook. Nothing to read. Just sit there. Close your eyes. | Sit. | | Does that qualify as doing nothing? Or is that classed as some | kind of meditation? | rossdavidh wrote: | I think what that means is, most people don't (and wouldn't | want to) do something that you choose to do, at least | occasionally. I also meditate, on occasion. But I note that | many methods of meditation involve giving you something to do | (slow walking meditation, for example), perhaps precisely for | this reason? | Jeff_Brown wrote: | The funniest part: | | "[The researchers] then asked, "Would they rather do an | unpleasant activity than no activity at all?" ... Participants | were given the same circumstances as most of the previous | studies, with the added option of also administering a mild | electric shock to themselves by pressing a button. | | Twelve of 18 men in the study gave themselves at least one | electric shock during the study's 15-minute "thinking" period. By | comparison, six of 24 females shocked themselves. All of these | participants had received a sample of the shock and reported that | they would pay to avoid being shocked again." | foobiekr wrote: | As I read this, I was thinking how much I would enjoy | participating in such a study and seeing how many times I could | shock myself before I couldn't take it anymore. My very first | thought was how much I would like to have the ability to test | myself. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | It's really fascinating to me as well that a lot of men would | be that way. I understand "why" but for myself personally I can | entertain my own thoughts alone for an extended period time. | I've always been that way since I was young so the thought of | shocking yourself because you're bored with your own thoughts | still is an odd concept to me. How can you despise your own | inner monologue that much? Is introspection really that | unmasculine of a task to some men? Many people to me seem so | focused on the present and engaging without considering | possible outcomes before acting. It's one facet of humanity I | still don't understand outside of justifying that it's another | irrational thing humans do for the sake of irrationality. | Klinky wrote: | Novelty. How often are you part of a study where you get to | shock yourself? It makes a good story, and this kind of makes | the study less useful. The "shock value" of shocking oneself | is its own entertainment. Would not be surprised if some of | the people who didn't shock themselves were spending the time | trying to amp themselves up to take the shock, but just never | did. | tonyedgecombe wrote: | All the participants had received a "sample" shock and | decided they didn't like it. They already had their good | story. | WJW wrote: | I would also be really interested in a repeat of the | experiment but with differing age groups. My hypothesis is | that younger men would perhaps find it "manly" to suffer | electric shocks (perhaps even if just as a bar story for | later) while older people would not feel the need for such | activities anymore. | Izkata wrote: | Also, erotic electro-stimulation (e-stim) is a thing. It | doesn't surprise me at all that some people just be curious | about shocks in general, considering there are people out | there that do it for fun/pleasure. | [deleted] | retskrad wrote: | I'm 27 years old and I don't have much purpose in life. am I'm | kind of becoming desperate, to be honest. I have always thought | about becoming a programmer but I don't know where to start. | | What programming language do you learn first? What languages and | skills do you need to learn to become hire-able by a company? | [deleted] | kwhitefoot wrote: | Do you need an income? If you do then you should probably think | about what you can do that would generate an income rather than | going for programming. | | While programmers can earn good money it isn't necessarily that | easy. Another comment recommended Lua, I would say that the | language you should learn is the one that fits the problems you | want to solve. In other words, the language is a tool, | programming itself is a tool, Lua is one specific type of tool | and it might or might not be the tool for the job. | | My advice, assuming that you insist on learning to program, is | to first find a problem that you would like to solve that might | be amenable to a programming solution; then pick the language | that everyone else thinks is appropriate for that field. | retskrad wrote: | Thank you | hypertele-Xii wrote: | To a small minority, programming is an interest in itself. To | most programmers, programming is a tool for achieving something | they want. I learned to program mainly to make video games and | websites. | | For a general purpose programming language, I might suggest | Lua. It's much less cryptic than most. | [deleted] | mikewarot wrote: | It doesn't really matter what you learn, as long as you | actually start, and keep up with it. | swagasaurus-rex wrote: | Doing something is better than doing nothing | bananicorn wrote: | It's never too late to start. At the beginning you should | really focus on trying some things that keep your attention. | | (For me that was programming games - incredibly crufty ones, | but seeing thing move on my screen got me really excited and | got me to understand) | | Personally, that was javascript for me - mostly because you can | do stuff with it in any browser you want. Lua[0] is also a | great language for beginners, and I'm still using it for game | development[1] and general scripting/fun stuff. | | I just don't want to turn this into a hella long comment, so | I'll wrap it up; but I could talk about the first steps you | could take for hours :) | | If you want to ask me anything on how to get started, just | shoot me a mail under info@(my username here).com I'd be super | happy to help :) | | [0]https://www.lua.org/ [1]https://love2d.org/ | retskrad wrote: | Thank you | rossdavidh wrote: | 1) what an odd place to ask this question | | 2) this is not a bad first place: https://www.w3schools.com/ | [deleted] | [deleted] | johnchristopher wrote: | What does it mean regarding depression and laying in bed all day | doing nothing "with ease" ? | gwgundersen wrote: | Ever since reading Bertrand Russell's "The Conquest of | Happiness", I've thought a lot about the importance of being able | to sit inside my own head. One quote that I wrote down: | | > A life too full of excitement is an exhausting life, in which | continually stronger stimuli are needed to give the thrill that | has come to be thought an essential part of pleasure. A person | accustomed to too much excitement is like a person with a morbid | craving for pepper, who comes at last to be unable even to taste | a quantity of pepper which would cause anyone else to choke. | There is an element of boredom which is inseparable from the | avoidance of too much excitement, and too much excitement not | only undermines the health, but dulls the palate for every kind | of pleasure, substituting titillations for profound organic | satisfactions, cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for | beauty... A certain power of enduring boredom is therefore | essential to a happy life, and is one of the things that ought to | be taught to the young. | dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: | >substituting titillations for profound organic satisfactions, | cleverness for wisdom, and jagged surprises for beauty... | | ...And porn for relationships and intimacy. If there's any | modern ill that has exacerbated our inability to be comfortable | with boredom (which is essentially inner loneliness) it's porn. | It's an escape for loneliness and a terrible salve that leaves | the intrinsic desires for intimacy and connection unfulfilled, | akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst. | | A psychological pandemic in its own right, and you can't escape | its ubiquity and influence. | akomtu wrote: | Porn is the fastfood of relationships. The proper food is | just out of reach for most of the people. | rantwasp wrote: | yeah porn is a pandemic, NOT. | | here is a secret: we are hardwired to reproduce. you may | think you have a choice but you are wired to fsck everything | that has even a remote chance of resulting into you passing | your genes forward. | | porn is a way to release some of the tension that comes with | this wiring. nothing more, nothing less. | r0b05 wrote: | While many functioning porn users will dismiss your comment | as nonsense, I believe it really is a massive problem in | society. | | Porn in its current iteration, is similar to social media in | that it literally programs your brain. We program computers | but are ignorant to the fact that computers can program our | behaviour if we are not careful. Yes, it is a poor substitute | for intimacy but it also creates dangerous thought patterns | and belief systems. These so called kinks have little to do | with healthy sexual biological functioning. The perversions | can become so ingrained that one will see it in real life | instead of what is actually there. | | Remember, that a human being is programmed through our | beliefs and habits, which are formed through repetitions. So | be extremely careful of what you consume in this age of the | Internet. | mwilliaams wrote: | What kinks do you think are unhealthy? I'd wager that truly | unhealthy kinks are uncommon. | syops wrote: | Virtually all sex acts can be done in a healthy way | provided both parties are truly into it. Porn has created | expectations in men as to what women normally want and as | a result a lot of women do sex acts that they don't truly | like. Porn has distorted the view of what is 'normal' and | the expectations of what a woman should consent to. | haswell wrote: | The parent comment asks for specifics, but you go back to | generalizing porn in response. | | > _Porn has distorted the view of what is 'normal'_ | | Surely you mean _some_ porn, but you have not clarified | which types. What do you say to plain, "vanilla" porn | that pushes no boundaries? As with so many things, this | is not a black or white issue, and statements like your | final sentence do nothing to advance a nuanced | conversation about the subject. | syops wrote: | It's easy to find research on the topic. The research | supports my view. | haswell wrote: | So share the research that supports your view... | | As the person making claims without evidence, the onus is | on you at this point. You're not going to change minds if | you're not willing to share where you're coming from. | reshie wrote: | expectations is perhaps a personality problem and lack of | honest communication. normal is subjective even if it is | inherited from societal norms. communication and being | able to talk freely is key. | beebeepka wrote: | Preaching posts like yours are more dangerous than whatever | excess porn consumption may do to people's brains. | Spooky23 wrote: | It's acceptable to have a position or opinion, civilly | stated. | | Any of the common "vices" like gambling, porn, Skinner | box games, some drugs are difficult for people to manage. | That dopamine hit burns behavioral pathways into the | brain and is tough to undo. | angrais wrote: | Why are you (and others in this thread) grouping porn | with drugs and gambling? To me, this does not make any | sense. | | Watching porn is not a bad thing. Obviously, if you're | talking about addiction then perhaps, but do you think | people are addicted to porn (on average) to the extent | others are to those other vices? | | Likewise, gambling and drugs impact you both physically | and mentally, whereas the evidence for porn's impact on | either is questionable at best. | beebeepka wrote: | Apparently everyone is exactly the same and the only | people whose lives haven't been ruined buy these vices, | as you call them, are the ones who haven't tried them. I | am done here | Spooky23 wrote: | Not sure why you have a hang up about this. | | I enjoy drinking alcohol and have no issues with it, but | that doesn't mean acknowledging that alcoholism is a | thing is a problem or some judgemental act. | haswell wrote: | The potential downsides associated alcohol consumption | are well understood, and this understanding has permeated | most societies. | | The same cannot be said for porn consumption. While | studies exist, this is not a well understood topic, and | big claims are going to be met with skepticism and | demands for evidence. | r0b05 wrote: | I don't expect everyone to get it but if my insight helps | a few people then it's worth sharing. | syops wrote: | I suspect that many of the people responding haven't read | any research into the topic. | haswell wrote: | What insight, specifically? You make big claims with no | citation, and when asked for more info, you dismiss those | questions. If you're interested in helping others | understand the insights you claim to have, bring some | details to the table! | | I'm pretty curious about the topic, and this is an | inquisitive community in general. Unfortunately, the way | you've presented your position is not helpful, especially | for a group that tends to demand scientific proof or at | least a well formed hypothesis. | k__ wrote: | True. | | While I think that the porn industry has inherent | problems and some people get addicted to it. For me its | preachers like GP that are doing our society a great | disservice by moralizing and putting perfectly normal | humam behaviors down as "perversion". | beebeepka wrote: | Exactly. People shouldn't be free to do things rusty cans | don't approve because our society is at stake here! | | There's only one solution to each problem and it's what | this wise, moral person is selling because if it works | for them, then it's the only possible truth. | [deleted] | vorpalhex wrote: | Using porn to fix loneliness is like using a screwdriver as a | hammer. It's not the intent of the tool, nor can you be upset | with the screwdriver for being a poor hammer. The issue lies | with the maker, not the tool. | oblio wrote: | Many things are clearly harmful because they exploit | weaknesses in the human psyche and the average person. | There is a reason why obesity is high and rising, for | example. | vorpalhex wrote: | You can take two views of humans. | | One is that they are to be managed - their food choices | kept narrow to safe ones, dangerous things removed from | their environment, and only safe and allowable futures | enabled. Give them little locked down tablets that don't | view porn, keep their food limited to acceptable options, | don't let them read dangerous books. | | The other view is that humans are free agents, and to | treat them as less than an agent is to fundamentally deny | their identity as such. That means giving them | information but letting them make "bad choices" or "the | wrong choice". | | Freedom means being able to make bad choices. | bopbeepboop wrote: | I think it's a mistake to blame porn, rather than realizing | porn is a self-medication for people targeted by | institutional and pervasive misandry. | | I understand even after several generations of men being | abused, people aren't ready to admit man-hating is a real | problem in modern US society. I would encourage people to | view education statistics where men have trailed women for | forty years -- yet receive no institutional support, while | female-focused programs are lauded by the press. Or | sentencing statistics, where the gap between men and women | for the same crime is _three_ times the sentencing gap | between whites and blacks -- something most of us recognize | as a problem. | | It's the same thought process that blames video games for men | staying home rather than assessing why they might rationally | choose to isolate in a fictional world instead of embrace | broader society. | tomp wrote: | Meh. I've been watching porn since forever. My taste in porn | has informed my real-life taste, and vice versa (in | particular, I detest make-up / fakeness, both in porn and in | real life). | | Still, I find real people infinitely more fulfilling and have | always put effort into seeking real relationships, sexual and | romantic. | | (I estimate porn is similar to gambling - some people's | psychology makes them more susceptible to addiction of any | kind.) | dQw4w9WgXcQ wrote: | Meh. I've been going to bars since forever. I'm not like | that guy over there who pounds a 12 pack every night and | has no standards for what he funnels down his gullet. | Despite my habitual usage and inability to refrain from the | activity for any extended period of time, I estimate his | psychology must make him the addict. For me it's a matter | of refinement and my consciously-engaged frontal-lobe | awareness of the fine hops and spirits that elevates me to | a connoisseur of the boozy arts. | serverholic wrote: | Yes I think what is not a problem for some can be a massive | problem for others. | Jeff_Brown wrote: | > [porn is] akin to drinking salt water to cure thirst. | | That's an exceptionally beautiful analogy. | RangerScience wrote: | There's a professor somewhere trying to prove that you can | extend how long your pure water lasts by also drinking sea | water; or something like that. Having trouble finding it | right now. | astrange wrote: | Hmm, but drinking water with electrolytes (including | moderate salt) is more refreshing than filtered water. | robben1234 wrote: | Porn only "fixes" loneliness if you have the feeling | unconditionally linked to sex, which in a way is quite sad. | zemvpferreira wrote: | I'm sorry if that's been your experience but this | generalisation is a bit much. | | I probably watch about as much porn as I do Netflix - around | 30 minutes per day on average. I enjoy it, it's very relaxing | and pleasureful. I'm in a committed long-term relationship of | 3 years and have had the same habits through other 3 | relationships of about the same length. They've all had a | full sex life and I enjoy both separately. I'm sure many | people have the same experience. | syops wrote: | There's been a bit of research into the destructive aspects | of porn watching. Porn has normalized a number of sexual | behaviors that were not common in the past. This is | especially so for behaviors that are degrading to the | woman. | | What's interesting about your comment though is that you | accuse OP of over generalization whilst using your singular | anecdotal experience in what I think can best be described | as a example of under generalization. | pault wrote: | To be fair, some people of all genders get their kicks | from being sexually dominated. The issue is knowing where | the other person's limits are and having good | communication. This becomes a problem when people find | discussing their sexual preferences embarrassing, even | with their partners. My sex life improved greatly when I | started asking my partners if they have any fantasies and | exploring them together. Sometimes porn can help people | discover things that they otherwise would have been too | shy to bring up. However, If you're watching porn five | times per day and find yourself less and less stimulated | by IRL sex, you need a detox. | syops wrote: | Of course there are such people. I submit though that the | number of women who consent to anal and like it is much | less than the number who consent and don't like. The same | for various other sex acts. I believe the research | supports my position. | JackFr wrote: | It's possible though as a society we've lost the idea of | a disordered desire. If you've got an authentic desire to | be sexually dominated or to humiliate and dominate | others, we now say "That's ok, that's your authentic | self. It's cool as long as everything is consensual." | | But maybe it's not OK. Maybe it's behavior that if | indulged keeps us from living and thriving and keeps us | from being our best selves. | | I'm not making a moral argument here -- at least I don't | think I am. Just that it might not be healthy to indulge | every desire we may have. And when desires are far | outside the norm, it's worth it to be circumspect about | them. | smichel17 wrote: | This is basically why I prefer living in a location with | seasons. Yes, CaliFlorida weather is nice. But I _appreciate_ | what all of the seasons have to offer so much more for the | variation. I could do with a 25% shorter winter and summer, | though ;) | bayindirh wrote: | > I could do with a 25% shorter winter and summer, though ;) | | I also love spring and fall, spring the most. On the other | hand, after reading a piece about how euphoric is spring for | nature and it's actually very tiresome for living things, I | learned to appreciate other seasons. | | I'm a cool weather guy and more resistant to cold than hot | weather, I don't dislike winter too. | irrational wrote: | Same here. Give me cloudy and cool over sunny and hot every | day of the year. | theshrike79 wrote: | Exactly this. My #1 advice for new parents is that the most | important thing for a parent in the long run is to make sure | their children are bored out of their gourds regularly. | | Kids need to have times when screen time has run out, there's | nothing on TV and they have no hobbies on engagements to run | to. Just time alone without any external inputs. | | This is the point where creativity usually pops up. Kids should | be able to play with anything around them. | meristohm wrote: | Yeah, boredom is a key, one I remember unlocking creativity | when I was younger, and one I rarely can find anymore without | effort (like John Cleese of Monty Python sitting in a barren | room for four hours, 3.5 hours of boredom followed by a half- | hour of inspired writingj[0][1]. | | [0] Create a space to play (2min clip): | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWEXQ9E4QiI | | [1] Make time for boredom (36min, Swedish subtitles?): | https://vimeo.com/176474304 | hypertele-Xii wrote: | I wish someone made the opposite lecture to John Cleese on | creativity; I'm stuck in open mode, an endless supply of | ideas, struggling to turn off the faucet and actually | _make_ something. | colordrops wrote: | Perhaps as you age this advice is great, and I find myself | naturally trending towards it, but I wouldn't give up my past | life full of titillations and jagged surprises for anything. | It's been amazing so far. | tux3 wrote: | But contrast, dynamic range, is not just about chasing | intensity. | | This seems to be written from the perspective that avoiding any | thrill is necessary so that boredom may be endured. | | As if you should avoid fun so that you don't ever have to fear | the lack of fun. | | No. Absoluty not. You can listen to loud music and still enjoy | the quiet parts. You can have intensity & quiet, and find | beauty in both. | | Severing yourself from anything exciting out of fear of missing | the very things you're depriving yourself out of, that seems to | me entirely misguided. | mistahenry wrote: | Your reading of this is rather extreme, and I feel you've | missed the point by thinking that Russell is advocating to | avoid fun intentionally at times so as to preserve a happy | life. I read it as more an observation that the boring times, | those in which there's a lack of stimulation, are an | important part of a balanced, healthy life. | | A more modern take on his advice would be to avoid mindlessly | surfing the internet every dull moment in which we are | waiting a few minutes for some time to pass. If you haven't | taken an extended, conscious break from the internet outside | of your work needs (no social media, no news, etc), I | recommend it. It was very enlightening for me to feel this | lack of stimulation. I certainly enjoy my time on the | internet when I'm there because I want to be there, not | because I'm just looking for something to kill the time. | | Similarly, I've stopped listening to music while coding | because I realized that the listening without mindfulness was | killing my passion. After doing so, the passion has been | restored. | | His words, too, remind me of the drug user's plight. My | sister works in drug rehabilitation and has told me about the | struggles many go through known as Post Acute Withdrawal | Syndrome. From my naive understanding, these people have | adapted to the constant, unnatural amount of dopamine flowing | through the brains during addiction by producing more | dopamine receptors. When the drug is gone, those receptors | are still there. But, the body is not capable of naturally | releasing the dopamine required to fill these receptors even | during the highest of natural moments, leading these people | to experience serious anhedonia -- an intense lack of | pleasure from everyday life. It takes a long time for these | receptors to downregulate, which is the reason for such a | high rate of relapse for certain drug types. | | I think of Emerson's words a bit: "If the stars should appear | one night in a thousand years, how would men believe and | adore; and preserve for many generations the remembrance of | the city of God which had been shown!" | Jeff_Brown wrote: | I agree, and yet I think it's important not to focus too much | on pleasure. Not just for the sake of productivity, but for | the sake of one's own happiness. Caring about more than | pleasure makes it easier to be happy. The Buddha had a lot to | say about that. | | Then again maybe that boils down to a mere alternate | definition of pleasure. Newcomers to exercise find it | painful, and that feeling never really goes away, but some | learn to enjoy it. | tux3 wrote: | That's interesting, I can't claim to entirely understand | your comment, but I'd like to read more about this :) | failwhaleshark wrote: | I read that book also. I believe in both modalities. | | I can go for days without human contact, code, "ideate" | (sensory deprivation that leads to daydreaming, new product | designs, and new writing ideas)... but I can't go indefinitely. | | I also have ADHD and need lots of stimuli to get a rush. I | don't "party hard," but I engage in copious adult activities, | decadent cooking, have people over to listen to blast vinyl at | annoy-the-neighbors volume and let loose like it's the last day | on Earth, and extreme sports. | | Your body may age, but never give up the joy of life. YOLADO | (you only live and die once). | [deleted] | r0b05 wrote: | This is a profound realisation that is usually preceded by | experiencing the sickness and suffering that comes with | unrestrained desire. How it takes over one's discriminating | faculties until one becomes blind to everyday beauty. | | I cannot recommend meditation enough to train the mind to stay | calm when desires want to run rampant. No mantras or music, | just sit in silence and boredom. Thoughts will come and go and | eventually you will learn to cope with yourself. | TuringNYC wrote: | Mindfulness came to mind for me specifically. I used to jump | from work to coffee meetings to fancy restaurant dinners out | with both clients and friends to meet-ups at NY's Meatpacking | District...to deeply enjoying the feeling of just sitting in | a nature preserve, smelling sap, listening to birds, and | breathing in the entire environment. (a benefit of taking a | job in the burbs.) | | Before the lockdown, I did an experiment where I either | walked (through a forest path) to work everyday or biked | leisurely to work (also thru a forest path.) [I realize | having the ability to do that is itself a blessing.] In | winters, the walk was difficult (ice, elements, frozen mud) | but it came to a point where the morning and evening | "commutes" were the best part of my day. I would even take | detours to more remote benches to clear my mind. | | I was incredibly productive at work throughout this 18month | experiment, until lockdown. | | I captured some of this on Strava if anyone is curious: | https://www.strava.com/activities/3211639111 | swayvil wrote: | The subject of meditation is what cropped up first in my mind | too. | | That dimension of exploration addresses this quite directly. | dctoedt wrote: | How long did it take you to notice that meditation made a | difference? | bayindirh wrote: | > I cannot recommend meditation enough to train the mind to | stay calm... | | Actually came here to just say that. After reading the piece | and just trying to sit tight, I was pleasantly surprised how | meditation changed me over the years, in a good way. | | My path also has no mantras or music. Just inner reflection. | Sometimes things got tough, but it transformed me dearly. | yboris wrote: | The principal author of this paper, Timothy D. Wilson has done | some awesome research. I can highly recommend his book _Strangers | to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious_. I found it | it be very illuminating and even useful for understanding others | and myself better. | | https://www.amazon.com/Strangers-to-Ourselves-audiobook/dp/B... | greyface- wrote: | The paper: https://wjh- | www.harvard.edu/~dtg/WILSON%20ET%20AL%202014.pdf | elric wrote: | Our society isn't exactly set up for "doing nothing", either. If | you're just sitting somewhere without doing anything, you might | be loitering, you'll start getting funny looks if this goes on | for extended periods of time. | | On the other hand, if you're sitting somewhere and you're | smoking, or reading, none of that seems to happen. I wonder if | we're uncomfortable with other people's ability to do _nothing_. | theonemind wrote: | Funny looks don't bother me too much, but someone is bound to | ask if you're okay. Depending on the level of foot traffic, | possibly several someones. | Jeff_Brown wrote: | In 2002, on my way to work in I think Berkeley (definitely | somewhere in the Bay Area), I noticed some beautiful echoes in | the subway station, and I stopped walking, stood still, and | listened. A staff member walked up and asked if I was okay. I | said yes. Maybe I explained what I was doing, I don't remember. | A few minutes later three paramedics appeared, forcibly | strapped me to a gurney, and took me to a hospital. | | I protested, of course. They were clearly not being paid to | listen to me. | is_true wrote: | That's exactly what people about to commit suicide do. | Jeff_Brown wrote: | That's interesting. In any old place? I wasn't anywhere | near the tracks; I was in a big underground space on my way | out. | | I wasn't suicidal, but I was definitely unhappy that year. | I don't know to what extent that showed. It may have been | later in life that I developed my habitual friendliness | with strangers. | | I do remember deciding shortly after that to learn to fear | other peoples' potential fears. It's a pain in the ass, but | optimal, I think. | im3w1l wrote: | How long were you in the subway station listening? What | happened at the hospital? And did you get a bill? | Jeff_Brown wrote: | Good questions. I imagine listened somewhere between one | and ten minutes. At the hospital I remember nothing except | that my arm was tied to a bar above my head for long enough | that it hurt, and I had to plead to get them to restrain me | some other way. I don't know whether I received a bill. | Neither does my mom, who probably would have paid for it, | as I was making peanuts. | | I wish I'd kept a diary. (I actually did a lot of writing | that year, but it was of the creative sort. I held onto a | box full of it for years. I went through it once and | thought it was dumb, but kept it still. The second time I | did that, years later, I confirmed my earlier judgment and | decided it wasn't worth keeping.) | [deleted] | pope_meat wrote: | ...so, you're telling me that in these united states of | america a bunch of goons took you by force and detained you | from continuing your day for the crime of ... standing and | listening to the sounds around you? | | I would burn half the city to the ground after getting out | for that bullshit, at least they'd have a valid reason to | commit me then. | | The idea that you could be hurting no one and be snatched up | and taken somewhere against your will is extremely upsetting | to me. | Jeff_Brown wrote: | I was quite upset. Looking back I'm surprised I didn't seek | damages in court. But that was before cell phones were | ubiquitous, and I was in a new town where I didn't know | basically anyone but my mom, and I don't have a | photographic memory for faces. I felt powerless. Indeed, I | believe I was. | dempseye wrote: | Is this a joke or did it happen? | Jeff_Brown wrote: | It happened. | | (BTW you know you can look through a commenter's history on | HN to see if an interpretation of something they wrote is | consistent with their character.) | kwhitefoot wrote: | Without more context and the ability to verify this I have to | assume that you made it up. The event is too extreme to stand | without corroboration; at least it would be where I live. | carapace wrote: | I was once crossing the Golden Gate Bridge on foot and | about halfway across the view of the bay was so beautiful | that I had to stop and drink it in. (Have you heard the | phrase "arresting beauty" or "arrested by beauty"? That's | how it was: I was captivated. It was just so beautiful!) | | Anyway, after maybe ten minutes a bicycle police officer | came up and started talking to me. It took me a moment to | realize that he was sounding me out for emotional distress, | checking to see if I was suicidal. I gave him my best smile | (easy enough as I was still in the thrall of beauty) and | reassured him emphatically that I was okay, and thanked him | for doing his (IMO very important) job and apologized for | making him come out and check on me (no good reason not to | be extra nice in the circs, eh?) and went on my way. | | I'm not blaming the OP for getting, uh, overbearing and | unneeded help. I'm pointing out that our society has | developed mechanisms to try to prevent suicide in the | obvious places: GGB and BART (the "subway" in Berkeley.) | | > The Golden Gate Bridge is the most used suicide site in | the world. | | > After years of debate and an estimated more than 1,500 | deaths, suicide barriers, consisting of a stainless steel | net extending 20 feet from the bridge and supported by | structural steel 20 feet under the walkway, began to be | installed in April 2017. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_Bridge#Suicides | treis wrote: | >"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit | quietly in a room alone." | | From a philosopher writing in the 1600s. I don't think it's an | issue with any particular society. It just seems part of human | nature to be inable to sit and do nothing for a significant | period of time. | MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: | I for one would love to be a bohemian layabout all day doing | nothing. Like a cat staring out a window listlessly wasting | the clock. | hypertele-Xii wrote: | There's a reason humans have conquered the world and cats | are our pets. | tfigueroa wrote: | In their wisdom, they decided to leave the conquest to | these curious bipeds, so they could relax in the sun and | watch time drift by... | IncRnd wrote: | It is not part of human nature. It does happen when a person | has a restless mind, however. | | How would you test this? The first way is direct: learn to | quiet your own mind. The second way is through inference: | observe a newborn baby who doesn't need food and when there | isn't excessive stimulation (light sound, smell, pain, etc.) | - they simply observe what is around them. | treis wrote: | Because that's all a new born baby can do (and often | they're not happy about it). As soon as they're mobile they | will interact with their environment whenever they can. | IncRnd wrote: | When a baby isn't happy, they will let you know that, | regardless of whether some adults believe that most | babies are unhappy. | hn_throwaway_99 wrote: | "All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet | room alone." - Blaise Pascal | | https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/blaise_pascal_133380 | lurkmurk wrote: | "There are two types of quotable quotes, those that deal in | absolutes, and those that divide people into two groups." | gverrilla wrote: | is that even a real quote? couldn't find a source in a google, | except for quoting sites without sources. doesn't sound like | the pascal I've read on the Pensees at all, but maybe I'm wrong | I know for sure Shakespeare and Einstein have a lot of fake | quotes atributed to them, and also Chaplin | grouphugs wrote: | nope | forgotmypw17 wrote: | I think the headline is misleading. This study is about people's | preferences and comfort, not what's "better" for them. | | (In my personal experience, breaking through the discomfort of | "doing nothing" has been subjectively better and rewarding.) | brianjlogan wrote: | Curious if the study would have the same results today with the | prevalence of Mindfulness meditation. Perhaps it's my | predisposition since I've googled for it. But I see | advertisements for Calm and Headspace. I think even on TV. I see | "Mindfulness" centers, physical places to take classes and | meditate. A whole commercial market has taken hold of this new | interest of fighting back the confusion of modern life. | | My trouble with advertising these aids, is that perhaps people | will be attached to them. For me the main thing that makes me | enjoy meditation is that no matter what if I have the discipline | I can do it. If I lose my limbs, if I have constant pain, if I'm | unhappy, if I lose my family. All the awfulness of life can at | the very least while I'm living not take away my inner peace. I | can feel and observe the river of life without being swept away | by it. I have a "comfortable" sense of security in my existence. | | Coming back to the article. Having been through those experiences | I would very much choose to be alone with my thoughts. I am | literally trying to find time every day. Especially over electric | shock haha. | ChrisLTD wrote: | As someone that has regularly meditated for years now, I still | wouldn't say sitting alone with nothing to do is an enjoyable | experience. You can turn it into an opportunity for meditation | or other types of deep thinking, but that's more like "work" | than anything else. | brianjlogan wrote: | Yeah that "enjoyable" state is kind of difficult to describe. | My experience may be different than yours but for me it's an | emptiness of being in tranquility with the chaos of my own | thoughts. Only with deliberate practice. To me "work" does | not mean suffering but directed concentration and discipline. | If I accept my mistakes and imperfectness of that "work" the | process to me is "enjoyable". But the "joy" is difficult here | because it's not really that exact emotion. | kahmeal wrote: | Perhaps satisfaction and contentment are more accurate? | Jeff_Brown wrote: | Meditation can occupy a unique space between work and play. | One of the goals of meditation can be an experience beyond, | or at least parallel to, goal-awareness. | | I say "can be" because there are multiple kinds of | meditation. A famous meditation researcher whose name I've | forgotten lists three: focused, wandering, and empathic. (I'm | not sure those are the canonical terms for them.) Wandering | is my favorite. | plutonorm wrote: | Aim to get into a jhana, it's a real state of being and quite | wonderful. | pessimizer wrote: | This study doesn't make much sense. If the question is whether | people would rather study and interact with the world or just | ruminate and narcissisticly contemplate their own thoughts, the | answer should be obvious, unless you've met anyone who enjoys the | idea of being buried alive. I bet fitness people would be fine | with this short-term solitary confinement, because they're at | least entertained by their own bodies. | [deleted] | elliekelly wrote: | Do you find meditation "narcissistic"? | ______- wrote: | > The investigation found that most would rather be doing | something - possibly even hurting themselves - than doing nothing | or sitting alone with their thoughts | | This brings up an old saying I learned years ago: | If you're going to do nothing, don't do it here | | Meditation is being active doing nothing. It's paradoxical, just | like Zen koans are paradoxical. I don't meditate in the cross | legged position however, and drift in and out of meditation doing | everyday humdrum things like waiting for a bus to arrive, or my | favorite: pretending to sleep, so I can actually fall asleep. | Each preamble before sleep is itself meditation, and we can find | ourselves meditating doing humdrum things like washing the | dishes. You don't need to go to a monastery or wellness center to | meditate. We are natural meditators! | Jeff_Brown wrote: | Switching on a podcast comes even more naturally to me. It's | like I've outsourced a big fraction of my thinking. It's | simultaneously delicious and repulsive. | dang wrote: | https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/03/22/stand-there/ | kilodeca wrote: | Is that even a question? | [deleted] | bravura wrote: | Isn't this just confirmation bias? The sort of journalist who | would publish work on this sort of scientist's publications, they | both seem like the types of people who rather publish than do | nothing. | UbrtrbNchDneRle wrote: | As someone with ADHD, I would love experiencing a motivational | impulse idling. I can literally sit around and daydream all day. | Maybe daydreaming is the wrong word... I can chase a dopamine | trail through my mind all day, it's only living in fantasy by | accident. Overall destructive, but at least not _painful_ (for | perspective: Putting on pants in the morning often is an act of | willpower for people with ADHD; you may not relate). | Alternatively, my brain falls back on utilizing anxiety to | autogenerate direction /dopamine. My hell are repetitive, inert | tasks, which require just enough attention to not allow wandering | off; worse, if the context doesn't allow for me to reframe the | situation somehow entertaining (e.g. being playful about it, | constructing challenges, makes things aesthetically pleasing). An | early uncanny valley of subjective engagement. Working as a | supermarket cashier would hurt me. But also requirements like | reading the didactically praised textbooks, which make me suffer | through the author's analogies and associations, denying me my | own mind's side gig. Pay me like shit, but please feed me a | challenge or new impression once a day; I can't do what "everyone | can do" - I'd rather idle and take another loan on | accomplishment. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-06-13 23:00 UTC)