[HN Gopher] A Beginner's Guide to Miles Davis
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A Beginner's Guide to Miles Davis
Author : tintinnabula
Score : 45 points
Date : 2021-06-16 04:52 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (samenright.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (samenright.com)
| SubGenius wrote:
| Miles Davis had the greatest set of ears too. His thoughts on his
| contemporaries in these blind tests are very interesting, and
| hilarious.
|
| _" For a long time, Miles Davis and I had been trying to get
| together for a blindfold session. I was determined that when the
| interview did take place, it would be something out of the
| ordinary run of blindfold tests; and that's just the way it
| turned out.
|
| Every record selected was one that featured at least two trumpet
| players. As you will see, this selection of material did not faze
| Miles.
|
| Miles was given no information whatever, either before or during
| the test, about the records played for him."_
|
| - http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_1.html
|
| - http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_2.html
|
| - http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_3.html
|
| - http://www.forghieri.net/jazz/blind/Davis_4.html
| OldGoodNewBad wrote:
| He was a great musician whose legacy is tainted by his racism,
| like many others.
|
| EDIT: just read his own quotes...
|
| https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Miles_Davis
| Slow_Hand wrote:
| If you want to discuss this, I think it would help to highlight
| or post some applicable quotes for us rather than dumping a
| page of close to 50 quotes (of varied content) and expecting us
| to reah through all of them until we find the ones you may or
| may not be referring to.
|
| As to Mile's supposed racism. I've never gotten the impression
| that he's had some inherent prejudice against other groups.
| What I would agree with, though, are his reactions to the
| various injustices and indignities of his own experience in
| America. His statements are nothing that I wouldn't expect from
| someone who was treated the way he was.
|
| In his autobiography he describes his experience going to Paris
| for the first time and the revelation of being treated with the
| dignity and respect for someone of his status. Something he had
| rarely, if ever, received back home.
|
| As another poster has said, if what he has to say about white
| people in America offends you, then perhaps you need some
| thicker skin. As far as I can tell, Miles' assessments are
| fair.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Miles became an ornery old man in the 1980s. Most of his angry
| statements (sure, some are about race, others are about all
| kinds of things he didn't like for whatever reason) that became
| grist for quoting came generally when the quality of his work
| itself had already begun to decline significantly, in the view
| of most critics and jazz historians. For me, this doesn't
| "taint his legacy" as much as give me one more reason for
| ignoring his last decade, while still enjoying greatly the
| recordings generally regarded as classics.
| the_af wrote:
| Care to elaborate? I don't know much about Miles Davis' life,
| though I love his early jazz albums.
| SubGenius wrote:
| There's an excellent autobiography called Miles, by Quincy
| Troupe. I highly recommend it. I've read it a few times over
| the years.
|
| As for racism, Miles faced significant racism himself, being
| arrested, assaulted by police etc. I don't recall the details
| right now but he did say some angry and not-so-nice things
| about white people, perhaps born out of his own experiences.
|
| Nobody can fault him for any kind of discrimination in his
| music though, as he's helped shape the careers of many jazz
| artists over the years, from all backgrounds.
|
| In any case, Miles was a fascinating character. A master at
| his craft.
| t3rabytes wrote:
| I can't find much context around this. Got some links?
| khazhoux wrote:
| His legacy is not tainted in the slightest. He was angry at the
| treatment of blacks by white America, and never apologized for
| it.
|
| In his professional life, he had life-long and career-defining
| relationships with white people (Teo Macero, Gil Evans, ...),
| and clearly did not let race stand in the way of great music.
| sgt wrote:
| I saw that. If that hurts you as a white male (I am assuming
| that's what you are, like most of HN), then you just need to
| grow some thicker skin.
|
| IMO racism against us hardly feels more than a little "prick"
| compared to what it does to minorities with a history of
| discriminations.
|
| Unless of course you've bought into victim mentality.
| OldGoodNewBad wrote:
| Racism against whites in the United States is much more
| serious than against minorities simply because there are so
| many more whites who are affected by it. Blacks are about 11%
| of the population, for example, while whites make up over
| half. Anti-white attitudes will not be tolerated.
| yoctonaut wrote:
| He worked with a lot of white musicians and arrangers. In the
| 1962 Playboy interview, he famously said, "I think prejudice
| one way is just as bad as the other way. I wouldn't have no
| other arranger but Gil Evans -- we couldn't be much closer if
| he was my brother. And I remember one time when I hired Lee
| Konitz, some colored cats bitched a lot about me hiring an ofay
| in my band when Negroes didn't have work. I said if a cat could
| play like Lee, I would hire him, I didn't give a damn if he was
| green and had red breath."
| actually_a_dog wrote:
| A legend is an old man with a cane known for what he used to do.
| I'm still doing it. -- On being called a "legend." Miles
| Davis, 1991.
|
| IIRC, only the tiniest handful of people could have unironically
| said that at any time in the 90's besides him. Off the top of my
| head, the only one really coming to mind is Michael Jordan (the
| NBA player, not the actor).
| lowkey wrote:
| If you really want to understand what made Miles unique I would
| skip the rest and jump straight to the Fusion period. Notably
| missing in the write-up are two incredible live performances:
| Dark Magus and Live Evil.
| quickthrowman wrote:
| Also notably missing: A Tribute to Jack Johnson. Any guide to
| Miles Davis missing Jack Johnson along with Live Evil and Dark
| Magus is ... incomplete.
|
| Miles' fusion period is by far his most interesting work.
| khazhoux wrote:
| My first reaction was to strongly disagree on advising a newbie
| to start with that period, but you are right to say that period
| will be the most "unique", even to modern ears.
|
| His 50's-60's work was genius, but is still an easily
| accessible language, even to non-jazz folks. His later output,
| by contrast, is a language that was never _quite-this or quite-
| that_. It never popularized, and will seem rather bizarre to
| most people even today.
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| Strange to say that Miles' fusion never popularized, because
| _Bitches Brew_ sold well and sparked imitators (Herbie
| Hancock 's fusion era, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report,
| Jaco Pastorious) that also sold well and sold out
| conventional concert venues. As the Wikipedia article for
| _Bitches Brew_ notes, the album "was viewed by some writers
| in the 1970s as what spurred jazz 's renewed popularity with
| mainstream audiences that decade."
| khazhoux wrote:
| I mean that the musical language of BB (perfect example)
| won't be familiar to people today (same as it was
| unfamiliar back then).
|
| By contrast, any of his quintet performances is easily
| recognized as "jazz", even to people who don't listen to
| jazz.
|
| BB will be more like " _what am I listening to??_ "
|
| Do you disagree?
| SubGenius wrote:
| That does make sense to an extent. The average listener
| _today_ is more likely to think of cheesy 80s synthy
| _jazz fusion_ when they hear of the term, rather than
| something like Bitches Brew.
| SubGenius wrote:
| They all sound like imitators(not really) because most of
| them played on the Bitches Brew record. At least Herbie
| Hancock, Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, John McLaughlin. :)
| Mediterraneo10 wrote:
| "Imitators" might not be the best word, but judging from
| these musicians' recordings as leader or sideman to
| others up to about 1970, which are generally in a much
| more traditional postbop vein, they might not have made
| the leap to fusion had it not been for Miles' late 1960s
| albums already opening up a new genre gradually and then
| _IASW_ and _Bitches Brew_ throwing the doors wide open.
| dharma1 wrote:
| I don't know if you can call those guys imitators - Herbie,
| McLaughlin and Zawinul all played on Bitches Brew. It was a
| seminal "fusion" record for sure and the school of Miles
| without a doubt left a lasting impression on all of them,
| but all those groups sound pretty different to me.
|
| I love hearing John McLaughlin tell Miles stories - he has
| so much respect and gratitude for him.
|
| BB, In a Silent Way and Kind of Blue are probably my
| favourite Miles records, he really managed to reinvent the
| art form more times than many other people I can think of
| Slow_Hand wrote:
| Huge fan of both records. As a massive Miles fan they're
| probably the two that I can come back to again and again when
| I'm looking to get kicked in the pants, musically. I suspect a
| lot of people are going to be alienated by 'Dark Magus' in
| particular, but the energy of his bands in this era is
| astounding. Really wild stuff.
|
| A personal favorite of mine is 'What I Say (Live)' off of 'Live
| Evil. That bass line is the foundation for a lot of my own
| playing and Keith Jarrett is on FIRE in this performance. It's
| a shame that his Miles performances are the only ones where we
| got to hear him in this idiom.
|
| I'm also a huge fan of 'In a Silent Way' and 'On the Corner'. I
| suppose my fav Mile's records are the ones where he was really
| pushing the boundaries of music. It reminds me of the tag that
| started appearing on his record around the era of 'In a Silent
| Way': "Directions in music by Miles Davis."
|
| Edit: Wow. The reviewer really just skipped right over these
| two records. I guess they're probably niche for most people.
| That's too bad, cause they're the most bombastic records in his
| catalog and really highlight his range and the depths of his
| innovations. Oh well.
| SubGenius wrote:
| You're right about that bassline! I love the full, round but
| tight tone.
|
| You might like Richard Bona and Linley Marthe, both of whom
| played with Joe Zawinul's Syndicate project. They both have
| that similar kind of solid tone.
|
| - https://youtu.be/c4zNb01nA_A - https://youtu.be/ppNFJbMrOHw
| khazhoux wrote:
| Since I was a teenager, several decades ago, I've been deeply
| steeped in his music and life (read his autobiography so many
| years ago). But I had a huge revelation only recently, thanks to
| YouTube clips:
|
| Miles was an _extremely gracious_ person.
|
| His on-stage and off-stage persona are so gruff... to the point,
| tell it like it is, take no shit, accept only the best work from
| people around you. But in interview after interview, he deflects
| personal credit and always (always!) raises up the young
| musicians around him. I never realized that selflessness.
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