[HN Gopher] Cryptanalysis of GPRS Encryption Algorithms GEA-1 su...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cryptanalysis of GPRS Encryption Algorithms GEA-1 suggest
       intentional weakness
        
       Author : anonymfus
       Score  : 352 points
       Date   : 2021-06-16 15:39 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (eprint.iacr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (eprint.iacr.org)
        
       | corty wrote:
       | The real interesting question is the proprietary crapto in 4G and
       | 5G. How long until that backdoor is proven?
        
       | gentleman11 wrote:
       | Pardon my ignorance, what is gprs and GEA-1 and what is it's
       | significance?
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | GPRS is the general packet radio service, used for (very slow)
         | data and SMS transfer in combination with the old GSM protocol.
        
           | gentleman11 wrote:
           | So, it encrypts sms messages and is still in use?
        
             | giantrobot wrote:
             | It doesn't encrypt SMS. It's over the air encryption for
             | packet data (not calls or SMS) like WEP or WPA on WiFi. On
             | GSM networks SMS was transmitted in leftover signaling
             | space on voice circuits.
        
               | secondcoming wrote:
               | RACH: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-
               | access_channel
        
         | meepmorp wrote:
         | GPRS is the mobile data standard for GSM mobile phones. It's
         | from the 2G era, and is old and slow. GEA-1 is an encryption
         | algorithm used with GPRS.
        
           | gentleman11 wrote:
           | So it's no longer in use?
        
             | meepmorp wrote:
             | No, GPRS is still around; the 2 and 3G networks aren't
             | supposed to go away until late 2022 in the US, and then
             | there's the rest of the world to consider.
        
               | giantrobot wrote:
               | In the US AT&T shut down their 2G service at the end of
               | 2019. Only T-Mobile has GSM/GPRS service active and that
               | is shutting down at the end of this year. It's 3G
               | services that will be shutting down through the end of
               | 2022/3.
        
               | meepmorp wrote:
               | Yeah, like I said, currently operating 2 & 3G networks
               | are scheduled to go away by late 2022, and GPRS is still
               | in service.
        
               | cestith wrote:
               | We need to consider illegitimate carrier devices, too.
               | Will the Stingray type devices stop supporting it? If the
               | phones still fall back to it, it's still a threat.
        
             | andyjohnson0 wrote:
             | I'd be surprised if there are many phones that still use
             | it, but I'd be equally unsurprised if there weren't a lot
             | of embedded devices (utility substations, gas/electricity
             | meters, security systems, traffic light controllers, etc.)
             | that still use GPRS modems to phone home to monitoring
             | systems. Its simple, lightweight, and supports PPP (for
             | devices that use serial comms) and X.25 as well as IP.
        
               | tinus_hn wrote:
               | I presume phones just use what the network tells them to
               | use.
        
               | simias wrote:
               | Even then, I'd expect (perhaps naively) that the vast
               | majority of smartphone data transmissions these days are
               | done on top of HTTPS, so breaking the first layer would
               | only get you so far.
        
             | Fordec wrote:
             | Actually, because of legacy support issues and quality of
             | service requirements, a lot of Emergency services are still
             | using it instead of newer tech. Also, a lot of low data
             | consumption IoT devices use older, but also cheaper,
             | chipsets that use this for their telemetry backbone.
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | Excerpt from the abstract:
       | 
       |  _" This paper presents the first publicly available
       | cryptanalytic attacks on the GEA-1 and GEA-2 algorithms."_
       | 
       | [..]
       | 
       |  _" This unusual pattern indicates that the weakness is
       | intentionally hidden to limit the security level to 40 bit by
       | design."_
       | 
       | So in other words: GPRS was intentionally backdoored.
        
         | baybal2 wrote:
         | As were its other cyphers.
         | 
         | Even in their best case effort, 64 bit keys were in the realm
         | of supercomputer level bruteforcing by late nineties if just
         | few more cypher quality degradations, and key leaks were know.
        
         | est31 wrote:
         | > So in other words: GPRS was intentionally backdoored.
         | 
         | Note that this high level insight isn't really a contribution
         | of the paper, given that the authors of the algorithm basically
         | admitted this themselves. Excerpt from the paper:
         | It was explicitly mentioned as a design requirement that "the
         | algorithm         should be generally exportable taking into
         | account current export restrictions"         and that "the
         | strength should be optimized taking into account the above
         | require-         ment" [15, p. 10]. The report further contains
         | a section on the evaluation of         the design. In
         | particular, it is mentioned that the evaluation team came to
         | the         conclusion that, "in general the algorithm will be
         | exportable under the current         national export
         | restrictions on cryptography applied in European countries" and
         | that "within this operational context, the algorithm provides
         | an adequate level of         security against eavesdropping of
         | GSM GPRS services"
         | 
         | Basically, export regulations from that era implied that you
         | had to make your algorithm weak intentionally. The main
         | contribution of the paper was to give a public cryptoanalysis
         | and point out the specific location of the flaw. I think it's
         | highly interesting. Another excerpt:                   Further,
         | we experimentally show that for randomly chosen LFSRs, it is
         | very         unlikely that the above weakness occurs.
         | Concretely, in a million tries we never         even got close
         | to such a weak instance. Figure 2 shows the distribution of the
         | entropy loss when changing the feedback polynomials of
         | registers A and C to         random primitive polynomials. This
         | implies that the weakness in GEA-1 is un-         likely to
         | occur by chance, indicating that the security level of 40 bits
         | is due to         export regulations.
         | 
         | Also, even though operators don't deploy GEA-1 any more,
         | according to the paper many semi-recent phones still support
         | GEA-1 (e.g. iPhone 8, Samsung Galaxy S9, OnePlus 6T, ...). The
         | paper describes a possible downgrade attack that allows the
         | session key to be obtained which can be used to extract _prior_
         | communication that happened under more secure encryption
         | algorithms (section 5.3). This is big. The paper authors
         | managed to get a test added to the conformance test suite that
         | checks that GEA-1 is _not_ supported, so hopefully future
         | phones will drop the GEA-1 support.
        
           | kodablah wrote:
           | > Basically, export regulations from that era implied that
           | you had to make your algorithm weak intentionally
           | 
           | I think the question then becomes, is the regulation still
           | satisfied if the specifics of the intentional
           | limitation/weakness/exploit are undocumented? It's likely
           | moot these days, but curious nonetheless.
        
           | SSLy wrote:
           | >operators don't deploy GEA-1 any more
           | 
           | in 1st world maybe
        
             | zokier wrote:
             | Worldwide. Quoth the paper:
             | 
             | > According to a study by Tomcs anyi et al. [11], that
             | analyzes the use of the ciphering algorithm in GRPS of 100
             | operators _worldwide_ , most operators prioritize the use
             | of GEA-3(58) followed by the non-encrypted mode GEA-0(38).
             | Only a few operators rely on GEA-2(4), while _no operator
             | uses GEA-1(0)_.
        
             | est31 wrote:
             | Yeah I omitted maybe too much in the summary. The paper
             | mentions that 2G is used in some places as a fallback, so
             | operators still support it if the phone doesn't support
             | newer standards.
             | 
             | In fact in Germany, the country of one of the paper's
             | authors, precisely this is happening: 3G is being turned
             | off while 2G is used as fallback for devices that don't
             | support LTE. Apparently there are some industrial use cases
             | of 2G that still rely on it. In Switzerland, they are
             | instead turning off 2G and keeping 3G as the fallback.
             | 
             | IDK how the situation is in third world countries, but note
             | that India at least is in the top ten when it comes to LTE
             | coverage. https://www.speedtest.net/insights/blog/india-4g-
             | availabilit...
        
               | slim wrote:
               | Also 2G is less battery hungry. We use it for our
               | professional applications on Android
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Your list of 2017-2018 phones suggests that manufacturers
           | have already dumped GEA-1 on current hardware.
           | 
           | I kind of suspect that the weakness of GEA-1 is one of those
           | industry secrets that everybody knows but nobody talks about.
        
           | matthewdgreen wrote:
           | >Note that this high level insight isn't really a
           | contribution of the paper
           | 
           | The problem with this statement is that nobody outside of the
           | design staff understood _how_ the algorithm was weak, or
           | (AFAIK) precisely what the criteria for  "weak" actually
           | were. Moreover -- after the export standards were relaxed and
           | GEA-2 had shipped, nobody came forward and said "remove this
           | now totally obsolete algorithm from your standards because we
           | weakened it in this way and it only has 40-bit security"
           | which is why it is present in phones as recent as the iPhone
           | 8 (2018) and potentially may be vulnerable to downgrade
           | attacks.
           | 
           | There are some stupid ways to weaken a cipher that would make
           | it obvious that something was weak in the design, e.g., just
           | truncating the key to 40 bits (as IBM did with DES from
           | 64->56 bits, by reducing the key size and adding parity
           | bits.) The designers didn't do this. They instead chose a
           | means of doing this that could only be detected using a
           | fairly sophisticated constraint solver which (may not have
           | been) so easily available at the time. So I don't entirely
           | agree with this assessment.
        
             | est31 wrote:
             | > nobody outside of the design staff understood how the
             | algorithm was weak
             | 
             | And, as I mention, pointing that out _was_ a contribution
             | of the paper.
             | 
             | > or (AFAIK) precisely what the criteria for "weak"
             | actually were
             | 
             | I think this 40 bit limit is well documented for other
             | encryption algorithms. I couldn't find it in any (old) US
             | regulation text though after a cursory search.
             | The "U.S. edition" supported full size (typically 1024-bit
             | or larger) RSA public keys in combination with full size
             | symmetric keys (secret keys) (128-bit RC4 or 3DES in SSL
             | 3.0 and TLS 1.0). The "International Edition" had its
             | effective key lengths reduced to 512 bits and 40 bits
             | respectively (RSA_EXPORT with 40-bit RC2 or RC4 in SSL 3.0
             | and TLS 1.0)
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_t
             | h...
        
               | matthewdgreen wrote:
               | > And, as I mention, pointing that out was a contribution
               | of the paper.
               | 
               | Maybe I didn't make it clear. The open question prior to
               | this paper was not "precisely how did the algorithm
               | implement a specific level of security", the question
               | was: what is that specific level of security? This was
               | totally unknown and not specified by the designers.
               | 
               | Notice that the specification doesn't define the desired
               | security, in the same way that it defines, say, the key
               | size. It just handwaves towards 'should be exportable'. I
               | can't find a copy of the requirements document anymore,
               | but the quote given in the spec doesn't specify anything
               | more than that statement.
               | 
               | >I think this 40 bit limit is well documented for other
               | encryption algorithms. I couldn't find it in any (old) US
               | regulation text though after a cursory search.
               | 
               | In the United States (note: GEA-1 was not a US standard)
               | some expedited licenses were granted to systems that used
               | effective _40 bit keys_. In practice (for symmetric
               | ciphers) this usually meant RC2 and RC4 with explicitly
               | truncated keys. GEA-1 does not have a 40-bit key size --
               | a point I made in the previous post. It has a 64-bit key
               | size. Nowhere does anyone say  "the requirement for this
               | design is effective 40-bit security": they don't say
               | anything at all. It could have had 24 bit security, 40
               | bit security, 56 bit security or even 64-bit security.
               | 
               | ETA: Moreover, there is more to this result than _40-bit
               | effective keysize_. A critical aspect of this result is
               | that the attackers are able to recover keys using 65 bits
               | of known keystream. The uncompromised GPRS algorithms
               | require several hundred (or over 1000) bits. Note that
               | these known plaintext requirements are somewhat
               | orthogonal to keysize: capturing 65 bits of known
               | keystream is possible in protocols like GPRS /IP due to
               | the existence of structured, predictable packet headers
               | -- as the authors point out. Capturing >1000 bits may not
               | be feasible at all. That's really significant and
               | interesting, and not the result one would expect if the
               | design goal was simply "effective 40-bit key size". One
               | has to wonder if "ability to perform passive decryption
               | using small amounts of known plaintext" is also included
               | in the (missing) security design requirements document. I
               | bet it isn't.
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | Why the heck don't consumers have a seat at the table while all
       | the 5G technology is being developed? I want open protocols and
       | publicly documented cryptosystems based on published protocols.
       | Instead we are just enabling the surveillance state.
        
         | admax88q wrote:
         | Because telecoms have this government supported oligopoly.
         | 
         | It's always been fascinating to me how we have this parallel
         | infrastructure between the open internet and the locked down
         | telecoms. The free for all that is the internet has evolved
         | much more robust protocols, but the telecoms continue to
         | operate in their own parallel problem space, solving a lot of
         | the same problems.
         | 
         | They also fight tooth and nail to prevent being dumb pipes.
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | I think you're mixing up a number of valid concerns which have
         | different threat models: for example, the mass surveillance
         | risks tend to involve things like carriers doing network
         | traffic analysis or location monitoring, and things like open
         | protocols or crypto don't really change the situation there
         | since it doesn't depend on breaking encrypted traffic (unlike
         | in the pre-TLS era when traffic wasn't encrypted).
         | 
         | Similarly, you can develop and document a crypto system but
         | unless you're publicly funding a lot of adversarial research
         | that doesn't prevent something like Dual_EC_DRBG being
         | submitted in bad faith. I haven't seen any indication that the
         | NIST team thought they were developing open standards -- it's
         | not like they sent a pull request from nsa/add-secret-backdoorz
         | -- and the level of effort needed to uncover these things can
         | be substantial, requiring highly-specialized reviewers. That
         | also hits all of the usual concerns about whether the
         | cryptographic algorithm is secure but used in an unsafe manner,
         | which can be even harder to detect.
         | 
         | The biggest win has simply been that these issues get a lot
         | more public discussion and review now than they used to, and
         | the industry has collectively agreed not to trust the
         | infrastructure. Switching to things like TLS has done more to
         | protect privacy than all of the lower level standards work and
         | that's nice because e.g. a Signal or FaceTime user is still
         | protected even if their traffic never touches a cellular
         | network.
        
         | firebaze wrote:
         | "Consumers" as an opaque crowd wouldn't be able to judge
         | anything this involved. The discussion partners we're talking
         | about are mostly politicians, who are primarily educated in the
         | field of convincing despite having no background at all,
         | referring to higher authority et al. Our typical, maybe even
         | scientifically educated consumer wouldn't be able in the least
         | of realistically forming an opposing opinion, and even if
         | she/he did, it would be a very hard sell against battle-
         | hardened politicians.
         | 
         | This field is too complex even for quite a few if not most IT-
         | centric professions.
         | 
         | From my point of view, we have to put the blame on us. We
         | should treat anyone supporting invasive technologies (in the
         | sense of subverting privacy and basic human rights) as an
         | outcast.
         | 
         | The impression I get (maybe not primarily from HN) is the
         | opposite. We'd not take that job (pay...), but still we appear
         | to honor their efforts. Or we _do_ take that job because of pay
         | on the opposite spectrum.
        
         | oneplane wrote:
         | Because of money and or mix of politics and imagined power.
         | 
         | In addition, the systems are vast and complex, too big for one
         | person to capture and understand. This means you get into the
         | area of design teams, business teams, politics and geo stuff by
         | default. Even re-implementing the specification (or most of it)
         | in FOSS is extremely hard, and that's with all the information
         | being publicly available. Designing it is an order of magnitude
         | harder.
         | 
         | Besides the systems in isolation, we also have to deal with
         | various governments, businesses, and legacy and migration paths
         | in both cases.
         | 
         | Ironically, because all of this and the huge amount of people
         | involved, consumers _are_ involved in this. It's not like the
         | GSM, 3GPP etc. don't use their own stuff.
        
         | BTCOG wrote:
         | Because, it's purposely this way.
        
         | IncRnd wrote:
         | The reason consumers don't have a seat at the table is that the
         | techology has nothing to do with consumers, other than
         | harvesting consumer's money and data.
        
         | tialaramex wrote:
         | _Consumers_ don 't have anything useful to bring to this table.
         | 
         | Historically the realisation that you need outside
         | _Cryptographers_ (not consumers) if you actually want to do
         | anything novel with cryptography+ was slow to arrive.
         | 
         | Even on the Internet, for PGP and SSL there was no real outside
         | cryptographic design input. In SSL's case a few academics
         | looked at the design of SSLv1, broke it and that's why SSLv2 is
         | the first version shipped. Only TLS 1.2 finally had a step
         | where they ask actual cryptographers "Is this secure?" and that
         | step was _after_ the design work was finished. TLS 1.3 (just a
         | few years ago) is the first iteration where they have
         | cryptographers looking at the problem from the outset and the
         | working group rejected things that cryptographers said can 't
         | be made to fly.
         | 
         | And TLS 1.3 also reflects something that was effectively
         | impossible last century, rather than just a bad mindset. Today
         | we have reasonably good automated proof systems. An expert
         | mathematician can tell a computer "Given A, B and C are true,
         | is D true?" and have it tell them either that D is necessarily
         | true or that in fact it can't be true because -something- and
         | that helps avoid some goofs. So TLS 1.3 has been proven (in a
         | specific and limited model). You just could not do that with
         | the state of the art in say 1995 even if you'd known you wanted
         | to.
         | 
         | Now, we need to get that same understanding into unwieldy SDOs
         | like ISO, and also into pseudo SDOs like EMVco (the
         | organisation that makes "Chip and pin" and "Contactless
         | payment" work) none of which are really getting the
         | cryptographers in first so far.
         | 
         | + "But what I want to do isn't novel". Cool, use one of the
         | existing secure systems. If you can't, _no matter why_ then you
         | 're wrong you did want to do something novel, start at the top.
        
           | tptacek wrote:
           | I don't think that's true about SSL/TLS. SSLv2, the Netscape
           | protocol, was a shitshow, but SSL3, its successor and the
           | basis for TLS, has Paul Kocher's name on the RFC. The mixed
           | MD5/SHA1 construction is apparently Kocher's doing.
        
         | ezekg wrote:
         | > Instead we are just enabling the surveillance state.
         | 
         | It's a sad state of affairs. I honestly believe people actually
         | want this, or have at least been conned into wanting it.
         | 
         | Giving up liberty (in this case, privacy) for the guise of
         | safety is all the rage these days
        
         | mindcrime wrote:
         | _I want open protocols and publicly documented cryptosystems
         | based on published protocols. Instead we are just enabling the
         | surveillance state._
         | 
         | I think you just answered your own question.
        
           | Pokepokalypse wrote:
           | we don't tend to vote in our own best interest; whether it's
           | politics, or economically.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | How does "open protocols and publicly documented cryptosystems"
         | help when the carriers are mandated by law to have backdoors so
         | they can fulfill "lawful intercept" requests? You're better off
         | treating it as untrusted and using your own encryption on top
         | (eg. Signal).
        
           | corty wrote:
           | It doesn't help against the local authorities. But it will
           | help against criminals and foreign authorities. E.g. most of
           | the worlds capitals are packed with IMSI-catchers and passive
           | eavesdropping devices operated from embassies. This spying on
           | foreign soil would be impossible if mobile phones were any
           | good with regards to security.
           | 
           | And signal isn't really very helpful in this scenario,
           | because it doesn't properly protect against MitM attacks.
        
             | xxpor wrote:
             | >And signal isn't really very helpful in this scenario,
             | because it doesn't properly protect against MitM attacks.
             | 
             | I suppose it depends on where exactly the Middle here is,
             | but for basic MitM of the physical network, if nothing else
             | shouldn't the TLS connection to Signal's servers be
             | sufficient?
        
             | m4x wrote:
             | How does signal fail to protect against MITM attacks? Given
             | that it's end-to-end encrypted, wouldn't an attacker have
             | to force a change of keys to MITM you? In which case you
             | should be notified by signal that the keys were recently
             | changed.
        
               | corty wrote:
               | Signal only implements a very weak form of trust-on-
               | first-use for keys. So there is no authentication and no
               | security for a first contact. Subsequent communication
               | can be protected by meeting in person and comparing keys,
               | which nobody knows about. Signal doesn't ever tell you
               | about this necessity and doesn't have any option to e.g.
               | pin the key after manual verification or even just set a
               | "verified contact" reminder.
               | 
               | Being warned about a changed key is only sensible at all
               | if the one before that was verified. Otherwise, how do
               | you know everything wasn't MitMed in the first place?
               | Also, most users ignore the warning if the next message
               | is "sorry, new phone, Signal doesn't do key backups".
               | Which everyone will understand and go along with because
               | they either don't know about the danger there. Or because
               | they know Signal really doesn't do shit to provide
               | authentication continuity through proper backups.
               | 
               | Signal is only suitable for casual communication. Against
               | adversaries that do more than just passive dragnet
               | surveilance, Signal is either useless or even dangerous
               | to recommend. It is intentionally designed just for this
               | one attack of passive dragnet surveilance, nothing else.
               | Please don't endanger people by recommending unsuitable
               | software.
        
               | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
               | Are there any reasonable case studies of individuals or
               | groups being targeted by pitm of signal?
        
           | mytailorisrich wrote:
           | Encryption in cellular systems is to protect over-the-air
           | signals. It's irrelevant when it comes to 99% of legal
           | interception because for that law enforcement simply asks the
           | network operator to share the plaintext traffic from within
           | the network.
           | 
           | If you want that _no-one_ be able to evesdrop then yes you
           | have to have your own encryption on top. These days a lot of
           | data already goes through TLS but for instance standard voice
           | calls are obviously transparent to operators.
        
           | theptip wrote:
           | Implementing a legally-mandated wiretap requirement like
           | CALEA doesn't require you to break your protocol (i.e. the
           | transport layer). It is implemented at the application layer,
           | on the server. You can still have cryptographically secure
           | communication between client and server while complying with
           | wiretap laws.
           | 
           | If you're concerned about your government intercepting your
           | communications with a warrant, there's not really anything
           | you can do except move to an E2E encrypted app like Signal.
           | But if you're OK with only being monitored if a judge signs a
           | warrant, then the GP's suggestion helps.
           | 
           | These protocol backdoors are more dangerous than application-
           | level wiretaps because anyone can find and use them; they
           | might be private at first, but once they are discovered
           | there's usually no way to fix them without moving to a new
           | protocol (version).
           | 
           | Protocol breaks seem to me to be more in the category of
           | "added by the NSA through subterfuge or coercion in order to
           | enable illegal warrantless surveillance", which I find much
           | more concerning than publicly-known processes with (at least
           | in theory) established due process like CALEA wiretaps.
           | 
           | > You're better off treating it as untrusted and using your
           | own encryption on top (eg. Signal).
           | 
           | But yes, this is a sensible approach to the world-as-it-
           | currently-is.
        
             | pope_meat wrote:
             | Especially a secret judge, in a secret court.
             | 
             | I always consent to that.
        
         | throw0101a wrote:
         | > _Why the heck don't consumers have a seat at the table while
         | all the 5G technology is being developed?_
         | 
         | A lot of these standards are generally created by industry
         | consortia, and participation in standards setting is limited to
         | companies who are members.
         | 
         | This isn't the IETF where any rando can join a mailing list and
         | chime in on a proposed standard/draft.
         | 
         | IEEE (Ethernet) is somewhere in the middle: you have to be an
         | individual member (though may have a corporate affiliation),
         | and make certain time/attendance commitments, but otherwise you
         | can vote on drafts (and many mailing lists seem to have open
         | archives):
         | 
         | * https://www.ieee802.org/3/rules/member.html
         | 
         | * https://www.ieee802.org/3/
        
       | this_user wrote:
       | All of the GSM algorithms were weak, and deliberately so. It is
       | well known that the French wanted it that way, while the German
       | side wanted a bit more safety on account of the ongoing Cold War.
       | So compromises like the infamous A5 algorithm were created whose
       | security was mainly based on the algorithm itself being kept a
       | secret - the cardinal sin of cryptography.
        
       | slownews45 wrote:
       | Too many coincidences for this to be by chance.
       | 
       | IBM had Commercial Data Masking Facility which did key shortening
       | to turn a 56 bit cipher into a 40 bit one.
       | 
       | Now we've got this weird interaction which similarly reduces key
       | length.
       | 
       | Seems pretty obviously intentional?
        
         | fragbait65 wrote:
         | I agree, it is probably intentional, but I think it remains to
         | be proven that it was malicious?
         | 
         | Maybe 40 bit was seen as sufficient at the time, but are there
         | any engineering reasons to actually shorten the key
         | intentionally, does it improve the transfer rate in any way?
         | 
         | I can't think of any, but I'm no expert, so maybe somebody else
         | can chime in?
        
           | raphlinus wrote:
           | Depending on your definition of "malicious," I think it
           | clears that bar. The problem is not making a good-faith
           | argument that 40 bits was sufficient (which was done for some
           | extent for export-approved 40 bit SSL), but that it misleads
           | people into believing that it's 64 bit encryption while it
           | only has 40 bits of strength for people who are in on the
           | backdoor.
           | 
           | And as far as the other half of your question, no, there's no
           | possible benefit (other than to the backdoor owners) from a
           | smaller keyspace, as it goes through the motion of encrypting
           | with the larger one.
        
             | fragbait65 wrote:
             | Thanks for the explanation!
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | slownews45 wrote:
           | At the time 40 bits was not considered a backdoor, it was
           | considered a weakness that would allow folks like NSA (with
           | big budgets and intercept capabilities) to wiretap the way
           | they had other communication approaches.
           | 
           | Some situations, rather than designing new codecs, they would
           | just weaken key gen side. The IBM effort there was public to
           | allow for easier export, but also an approach that could be
           | used to hide the weakness which in other settings may have
           | been beneficial. It's possible however that folks involved
           | understood what was going on to a degree but that it was seen
           | as necessary to avoid export / import restrictions.
           | 
           | More recently I think places like China ask that the holders
           | of key material be located in country and make the full keys
           | available or accessible to their security services. Not sure
           | how AWS squares that circle unless they outsource their data
           | centers in China to a third party that can then expose the
           | keys for China to use.
        
             | gnfargbl wrote:
             | > Not sure how AWS squares that circle unless they
             | outsource their data centers in China to a third party that
             | can then expose the keys for China to use.
             | 
             | If you check something like the Public Suffix List [1], you
             | will notice that Amazon maintains separate com.cn domains
             | for several of its services in China. Amazon doesn't appear
             | to do that for any other country. It follows that AWS in
             | China might well be isolated from AWS elsewhere.
             | 
             | [1] https://publicsuffix.org/list/public_suffix_list.dat
        
           | corty wrote:
           | 40bits was "export level" encryption, i.e. stuff you could
           | safely export to foreign enemy countries. Because western
           | secret services were certain they could decrypt that if
           | necessary. So this is malicious without a doubt.
        
             | cestith wrote:
             | Indeed. The question is where the malice lies. If I make a
             | product for US use and export use, am I malicious by
             | telling export customers that I'll only support a weaker
             | key by US law? Or it the malice in the US requiring that?
             | Can we expect companies, especially international
             | conglomerates, to give up on potential markets because to
             | protest a law?
        
               | corty wrote:
               | Far simpler: An entity (here: the US) is malicious
               | towards its enemies, makes malicious laws and commits
               | malicious deeds to harm them. All the others are just
               | proxies for that maliciousness (provided they don't have
               | their own separate agenda there).
        
           | yarg wrote:
           | I don't necessarily think that you're wrong - but it's a moot
           | point since the consequences are the same.
           | 
           | For example, I don't think James Comey was acting with
           | malicious intent calling for universal crypto back-doors; I
           | do however think that he was dangerously naive and deeply
           | wrong-headed.
           | 
           | No back-door will ever remain unbreached and by baking
           | vulnerabilities into the specification you're paving the way
           | for malicious manufacturers to exfiltrate your network's
           | communications as they see fit.
           | 
           | There's a reason that 5G rollouts have national security
           | implications and they could've been largely avoided (metadata
           | aside).
        
       | usrusr wrote:
       | Post Showden this hardly qualifies as a smoking gun surprise, but
       | it's nice to see a concrete example identified and examined. It's
       | like nearfield archaeology, the difference between reading
       | accounts of the use of greek fire in some antique battle vs
       | finding identifiable remains of the manufacturing process.
        
       | nimish wrote:
       | It should not be surprising that a system that is subject to
       | lawful intercept requirements has weak encryption, especially
       | pre-lift of the export ban.
        
         | ganzuul wrote:
         | It was supposed to take 6 hours using Finland's fastest
         | supercomputer at the time. So said my professor.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | This is really to intercept over the air (so not necessarily
         | for fully 'legal' intercept but also intelligence services).
         | 
         | If law enforcement needs to wiretap a specific phone/SIM they
         | only need to request it to the operator. Over-the-air
         | encryption is irrelevant.
         | 
         | Nowadays operators can duplicate all packets and send copies to
         | law enforcement/security services in real time so that they can
         | monitor 100% of a given phone's traffic from their offices.
        
           | cs2733 wrote:
           | Exactly, this is for third party access or at least I've
           | assumed for a long time all communications using standard
           | tools have always been open for scrutinity.
           | 
           | It's nothing new either - for as long as there is postal
           | service your mail could be open by order of this or that
           | government oficial. Not even the Pony Express was immune to
           | that ;-)
           | 
           | If you want greater secrecy do like the paranoid intel
           | community has been doing since at least the cold war and
           | exchange messages on seemingly disconnected channels - say 2
           | different newspaper columns, wordpress blogs or even websites
           | made to look like robot-generated SEO spam, using code that
           | was previously agreed in person, with everyone keeping
           | hardcopies if necessary.
        
       | Merrill wrote:
       | At the time when digital cellular was first designed, the main
       | objective was to design sufficiently strong authentication to
       | stem the rampant theft of service then occurring on the analog
       | cellular systems. In the US this was estimated at roughly $2
       | billion/annum.
       | 
       | Encrypting traffic for privacy purposes was less important. Prior
       | analog cellular telephony systems were unencrypted, as were
       | analog and digital wireline services. Thus, the privacy
       | cryptography was intended to be strong enough to make it a little
       | more inconvenient/expensive to eavesdrop on digital cellular than
       | it was on analog cellular or wireline services without
       | significantly impeding law enforcement.
        
       | aliasEli wrote:
       | These algorithms are pretty weak but can still be used for
       | securing the communications with current phones.
        
         | daveguy wrote:
         | If the security level is artificially limited to 40 bits as the
         | article suggests, then it is not good for securing any
         | communications. It was relatively easy to crack DES-56 at rest
         | before the turn of the century. A teraflop machine can defeat
         | 40 bit encryption on the order of seconds.
         | 
         | Edit: fixed the incorrect "RSA-56" encryption. Thanks graderjs.
        
           | graderjs wrote:
           | I think you might mean DES-56, or RC5, but not RSA.
        
             | jhgb wrote:
             | I imagine that _technically_ RSA-56 would be easy to crack
             | as well.
        
             | axoltl wrote:
             | To be fair you could probably break 56 bit RSA with a pen
             | and paper.
        
             | daveguy wrote:
             | Yes, good catch. I did mean DES-56. I got the encryption
             | name confused with the company that issued the challenge.
             | The RSA algorithm is completely different.
        
         | meepmorp wrote:
         | Also, note, GEA-2 doesn't seem to have the same kind of key
         | weakening. I have no idea about the relative prevalence and
         | configurability of those algorithms in the wild, though.
        
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