[HN Gopher] In Argentina, cheap government-issued netbooks spark... ___________________________________________________________________ In Argentina, cheap government-issued netbooks sparked a musical Renaissance Author : truth_ Score : 199 points Date : 2021-06-17 13:14 UTC (9 hours ago) (HTM) web link (restofworld.org) (TXT) w3m dump (restofworld.org) | tombot wrote: | We are lucky to have restofworld to report on things outside of | the Californian internet aesthetic | MrPowers wrote: | Here's some other great Argentinian trap/reggaeton music: | | * Khea / Duki / Cazzu: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ0D_QD_DhM | | * Paulo Londra (PG lyrics): | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPpELzyP4rw&ab | | I live in Colombia and am working to get more Latinos / Latinas | in tech. I've started giving Macbooks to students and it's helped | a lot. Lots of students don't have good development workstations. | Macs are incredibly expensive here because of import taxes. | | If you have an old Macbook that's in good working condition and | would like to donate it, let me know and I'll make sure to get it | in the hands of a Colombian student that's working hard to learn | programming. | | A career in tech can be a transformative life event for a | Colombian (and their extended family). | redleader55 wrote: | > ... Macs are incredibly expensive here because of import | taxes | | This sound like a great opportunity for the government to do | some good. | wolverine876 wrote: | >> ... Macs are incredibly expensive here because of import | taxes | | > This sound like a great opportunity for the government to | do some good. | | Cut the taxes that fund the services poor people depend on, | such as education, health care, transportation, etc., so that | they can have cheaper computers and Apple can net more | profit? | Daishiman wrote: | Why would you give children used Macbooks that are incredibly | expensive to repair if you're out of the range of an Apple | store and not really user-serviceable when you can give them | even cheaper used corporate Lenovos for a fraction of the price | that do things just as easily but have far more availability of | spare parts? | MrPowers wrote: | I started with Mac cause that's what I had and it's been | working well. I'm not opposed to giving other types of | computers and seeing how that works. | | There is a lot of additional support I provide that's a lot | more important than the computer type. | the_af wrote: | Like Daishiman, I'm also from Argentina, and I think his | point is that Macs are prohibitively expensive here (more | than in say the US, here they are hard to buy, expensive, | and you pay a lot in taxes), so using Macs for a program | meant to teach & reach lots of kids doesn't make a lot of | sense. It's not about the OS or the computer type, but | about the cost and access to repairs when they break down: | you must keep the costs low or the whole program will | become unfeasible. | cutler wrote: | What's wrong with Ubuntu Linux on second-hand commodity | hardware? More scalable for your project, surely? | mrwebmaster wrote: | My 5yrs old kid wants to listen Khea / Duki / Londra all day (I | don't, so it's limited :( ). I don't see a lot of connection | between listening to music on YT and a career in tech (or my | son is going to have a career in tech?) | Daishiman wrote: | They will learn to find things they want on Youtube/google | which they will be able to leverage to learn whatever they | are curious about. | pierrec wrote: | Say what you will about FL Studio, the screenshot in the article | (presumably from a Glitcha project) shows it can achieve some | impressive information density: https://restofworld.org/wp- | content/uploads/2021/06/APS_DSF01... | 1986 wrote: | Absolutely unintended consequences, but at the same time, part of | a long history of musical scenes developing out of access to | (comparatively low-end) technology, and doing the best with what | you have: | | - Many early UK grime beats (by folks like Benga, Dizzee Rascal, | So Solid Crew, Ruff Sqwad) were produced on a Playstation | (software: MTV Music Generator or Music 2000) | | - (originally pirated copies of) FL Studio running on student or | family computers are more or less directly responsible for | developments in mainstream US rap in the past ~15 years | | - the ultimate one of these is the idea that looting of music | stores in the 1977 blackouts led directly to the birth of hip hop | in NYC - but this is probably apocryphal and most of those early | DJs were just "misusing" their parents' stereo equipment | | Would love to hear some more examples! | eatonphil wrote: | This is a great piece, but to go meta for a second: Rest of World | is a NYC-based magazine started recently to cover social/economic | issues with a focus on tech, specifically ignoring the | US/Canada/EU. | | It is one of my favorite magazines now for sharing a perspective | on some countries I don't often think about and some that I do | (RoK) but don't often get to hear about from typical western | news. | | Here's one of my favorite pieces recently: what the home office | and pandemic work-life looks like for folks in Tehran, | Kyrgyzstan, Mexico, Philippines, Bangkok, Dhaka, South Africa, | Saudi Arabia, Seoul. | | https://restofworld.org/2021/heres-what-working-from-home-lo... | MaxHoppersGhost wrote: | Founded by Sophie Schmidt, the daughter of Eric Schmidt (co- | founder of Google/70th richest person in the world). Just FYI. | I like the idea of the publication but I wonder how unbiased it | could be with a background like that. | wolverine876 wrote: | > Founded by Sophie Schmidt, the daughter of Eric Schmidt | (co-founder of Google/70th richest person in the world). Just | FYI. I like the idea of the publication but I wonder how | unbiased it could be with a background like that. | | Good to know, but I think it's taking it too far to say that | Sophie couldn't be unbiased. Are children so bound to their | parents? Are you so bound to think like yours? To support | your parents' endeavors? Some do, but many don't. | MaxHoppersGhost wrote: | I suppose I am a bit cynical but looking at the founder's | background I'm guessing she had some funding from somebody | to get this venture off the ground. Would be shocked if her | family connections didn't play a part in getting this thing | started. | bellyfullofbac wrote: | A quick DDG search says self-funded: https://www.buzzfeed | news.com/article/josephbernstein/a-googl... | | But well, yeah, her CV and places she's worked (and got | salaries from) at is impressive, some of that surely is | helped (whether she wants it or not, it's how others are | influenced) by the fact who her father is. | MaxHoppersGhost wrote: | Her CV is mediocre for someone who is the child of one of | the richest people on the planet. Self funded with her | trust fund maybe. | 29athrowaway wrote: | The themes of reggaeton include objectification of women, and the | trivialization of intimacy and relationships, as well as the | human experience at large. | | Most reggaeton lyrics follow this structure: | | 1) I saw a female | | 2) I am aroused | | 3) Sexual innuendos | | There is almost no difference between the mechanics of "perreo" | (from Spanish "perro", dog, meaning "dogging") and rubbing | yourself against another person in a sexual manner. | | Now, in a more constructive tone... people creating music is a | good thing. I hope that these artists persevere, and eventually | find ways to create music about themes that elevate the human | experience beyond the pursue of the sexual act. | hdb2 wrote: | Musician here... | | I find it interesting that you dismissed sex/reproduction as | not being part of the human experience. I can think of no other | act more fundamental to the human experience, save breathing | and eating. | 29athrowaway wrote: | Well, sex in reggaeton is often seen as an end on itself, | rather than a form of companionship, or a way to | progressively cement a relationship, or create a family... | It's just attraction and sex. | | The genre seems very focused on those 2 things only, leaving | out many other aspects of relationship building. It's as deep | as Pikotaro's song "Pen Pineapple Apple Pen". | Daishiman wrote: | The same can be said about the culture around Opera, but | because poor people don't get to go you don't hear | critiques of Rigoletto. | grillvogel wrote: | you just described the lyrics to basically every popular song | in any genre | truth_ wrote: | This story, for me, proves to me again- significant things are | possible if people have more liberal access to a computer and | internet, and better resources in general. | | The fact that many potential great artists, scientists, | developers, musicians are lost to poverty, and for not having | access to tools is mind-numbing. | wolverine876 wrote: | Absolutely. It's hard to refute that people with more resources | achieve at a much higher rate, and the solution is obvious. | eric__cartman wrote: | I'm from Argentina, and I can say that even though giving | computers to students that didn't have access to one at home is | an excellent thing to do, the sad truth is that many times cases | like this are rare exceptions. Often the teachers and students | public schools aren't taught how to incorporate these computers | into their learning. Maybe they want to, but the lack of | connectivity in many areas leaves students unable to partake in | virtual classrooms, which is especially worrying considering that | this group of students effectively couldn't receive an education | for the better almost a whole year (at least). | | You can't expect to miraculously boost a kid's education by | giving them a computer when they don't have internet connectivity | at home, and missed a whole year of school due to covid. Many | families can't afford to pay a monthly fee to an ISP. | | I still believe that this will be beneficial for many, nowadays | having a computer opens up a lot of opportunities, but it can't | replace a quality education, and magically fix a flawed education | system. | zzzpaz wrote: | > the sad truth is that many times cases like this are rare | exceptions. | | Well, giving a computer to someone doesn't turn them into a | Bill Gates or Steve Jobs just because they own it. Depends on | the attitude of whom receive it. | | You could say that most of the people will use it for fun and | you entertainment. | | On the other side there are people who will use to uplift | themselves and that's something that has to be appreciated. | | The truth is that these young man, without a computer wouldn't | be in this situation today. So even if is an exception is still | good to see that. | inigojonesguy wrote: | >Well, giving a computer to someone doesn't turn them into a | Bill Gates or Steve Jobs just because they own it. | | I read this comment, I read the article and can't stop | thinking what if Zuck were among these kids them maybe we | could admire him as a musical talent like L-GANTE (link from | the article) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SacHyFb_j1o | StavrosK wrote: | > giving a computer to someone doesn't turn them into a Bill | Gates or Steve Jobs just because they own it. | | The point isn't to make every one of these kids a Bill Gates, | it's to prevent the Bill Gates among them from living a life | of poverty because they couldn't get a computer early enough. | rijoja wrote: | Well I learned to program and how UNIX systems worked from | having a computer and a library. Today you wouldn't really | need the library if you have an internet connection. | conanbatt wrote: | The question is what would have been the result of giving | each kid 500U$S instead, which is what the computers cost. | forgetfulness wrote: | You are entirely right, even to the last point, but I think the | first half of it needs some more support. | | The truth is that most of the average or privileged people in | the developed and developing world won't do anything | extraordinary with their computers either. | | If giving at least one tool to the disadvantaged, that others | can pretty much take for granted, allows the few among them | that would pursue their talents with it is already a step up | from the status quo. | eric__cartman wrote: | They absolutely will. And I'm sure many kids, when introduced | to computers took full advantage of them. Learning new skills | and being able to integrate themselves better into this | digitally dependent world. These cases more than make up for | the ones that only used their machines to play CS 1.6 | | The government announced that they will be reopening this | program and begin distributing computers again. I really wish | them the best of luck even with a global semiconductor | shortage because, especially nowadays, those that don't have | access to a computer get severely limited in their | possibilities. I was only ranting about how this program | could have been better implemented at the schools. | duxup wrote: | Budgeting for equipment is easy. In the US because of how | funding works budgeting / getting one off grants / short term | taxes for equipment is often one of the easier (relatively) | things to do. Meanwhile maintenance, training go by the way | side. | | Training humans is hard, that always is the hard part. | Daishiman wrote: | I'm from Argentina as well and I believe this attitude is | exactly what's wrong when people critiqued this program. | | Yes, we _know_ it's not going to fix a flawed education system. | There's not a person in this entire country who has ever | believed otherwise, and using it as a critique of the program | has been nothing but a strawman. | | We live a in a world where everything is done online. If the | only objective this achieved is that kids are now familiar with | a computer without having learned anything else, it's still | fantastically successful. They know how to load a spreadsheet. | They know basic UI paradigms that allow them to navigate crappy | government or banking web pages. They come of age using social | networks that they will be able to leverage for work and | productive connections in the future. | | The issue of connectivity is related but ultimately a | distraction too, as a single poor wi-fi or 3G connection is | still good for watching low-quality Youtube videos or reading | tutorials. | | It's a middle-of-the-road country with inadequate distribution | of services. The resources devoted to this program can't be put | to infrastructure. And imperfectly devised program where | teachers can't use computers doesn't change the fact that | computers are so damn useful that you don't depend on a teacher | to learn how to use it, especially with naturally resourceful | children. | sdfin wrote: | I'm also from Argentina, and about 6 years ago I worked in a | public school. | | I think giving computers to children is good only if the | quality of education they receive is good. I saw many | children using their government-given computers to play GTA | san andreas and Counter Strike while they were in the middle | of a class, and the teachers didn't do anything about it | because the government forbids them to take reasonable | disciplinary measures (A teacher wants a child to pay | attention during a class? Good luck, there's not much he/she | can do) and also the goverments forces the teachers to make | everyone pass every exam because "it is stigmatizing" for the | children to get a bad mark on a test. | | What I comment sounds absurd, but I have no reason to lie | about it. | | So, even if I consider it can be benefical to give computers | to students in some conditions, in Argentina it's not well | implemented. | Daishiman wrote: | > I think giving computers to children is good only if the | quality of education they receive is good. | | This is 100% false. | | A computer allows them to watch YouTube and see tutorials | on everything they may want to learn. It _forces_ them to | learn to how read and read quickly to digest all the | information they get on social networks. It allows them to | know that there are such things as spreadsheets and | document editors. | | This is so much more important than many classes that it | can't be understated how critical this is. If these | children instead had to go to private computer literacy | classes when they turn 21 because they need to write a CV | or access a government website, they will have wasted away | a ton of potential. | | All the children mentioned in the article did not have a | good education, but they had a tool that enabled them to | make do without it. | sdfin wrote: | Yes, I agree, there are many advantages. Still I saw | various high school level children who were able to get a | torrent and launch GTA San Andreas in their computers, | but at the same time they were unable to read in a fluent | way and of comprehending texts. | | I mean, autonomous children, and children with certain | interests can learn a lot just by having a computers, | while others won't learn much. But still, the exposure to | a computer is helfpul for all of them. | | I was too extreme in what I expressed. Both having | computers and good education are positives. | StavrosK wrote: | Sure, but it's worth wasting 99 laptops if even we manage | to enable one child to get a better education, and that's | even before considering that the other 99 laptops are | probably not going to be wasted either. | rank0 wrote: | This is why internet needs to be treated as a utility | academonia wrote: | The "one laptop per child" program put some thought into the | connectivity problem. They actually designed their machines | around the idea of distributing content via meshing and | intermittent "sneakernet" deliveries. | | Sadly, the price/performance wasn't quite there in the | mid-2000s, but it seemed like they had some good ideas: | | https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/16/17233946/olpcs-100-laptop... | | Maybe the mesh networking could have worked better if it were | used exclusively for distributing small files, like a P2P | Whispernet. | rijoja wrote: | At the moment though this would be way easier with a plethora | of ARM boards that are both low cost and powerful. Also with | star link there would be a way to solve spotty internet | access in remote areas. What is needed I suppose is a way to | integrate this with preexisting organisations in the area. | sumtechguy wrote: | I was working a project where the BOM was to be at most 50 | bucks. It is kind of difficult to hit that number. | Ironically while the board was cheap it was all the | additions to make it a full computer that ended up ruining | the idea. That was even before we add in any profit margin. | Add in a screen, keyboard, mouse, power supply, and so on. | It adds up quickly. What was a 15-20 dollar computer is now | 70-80 or more plus paying someone to put it together. | elondaits wrote: | The idea behind OLPC was in fact that students would be able to | gain a lot of insights on their own just by being in contact | with their own computer... it was never a requirement that they | had to be used effectively in the classroom. | | I'm from Argentina and saw kids using their computers while | sitting in front of a house, hanging (like kids do) and thought | that was beautiful. Also saw a girl using hers in the park | while her father pushed her little sister in the swing. Those | kind of images are inspiring and it's a shame the program was | cut. | rijoja wrote: | Would you know if there are any efforts to create a similar | effort? | dmix wrote: | Did you read the full article? They've already restarted | the program. | | > Conectar Igualdad was supposed to end definitively in | 2018, but the next year saw a new government come to power. | The netbook program has since experienced a rebirth as a | part of a bigger project. "Last year, we released the Juana | Manso Federal Plan," said Mares Serra, the general manager | at Educ.ar. "And even though we do not have enough funds to | cover every grade for now, we have returned to the model | where the student owns the computer." | | The lack of internet is a huge problem still, especially | considering they call them _net_ book. | mughinn wrote: | It was a good program that felt like it was made for one part | of the country without thinking of the rest. I've heard stories | of people in Jujuy receiving a computer that didn't have | electricity at their house | Daishiman wrote: | The amount of people who don't have access to electricity in | Argentina is minuscule compared to the total number of | children who are aided by computer literacy. This is just | nitpicky. | conanbatt wrote: | The amount of kids living below the poverty line is not a | small one. | dep_b wrote: | It's a netbook. It'll work a few hours after charging. Go to | school -> charge -> return home and do your homework. | swiley wrote: | The silly thing about the whole "no internet so can't distance | learn" is that people have been doing correspondence schooling | long before the internet was popular. The homeschooling | community in the US has quite a few tools even for very hands- | off parents and Australia has been doing it over the radio/mail | for a long time. | | Blaming poor internet availability is just an excuse for | failing to look at what's out there and adapt. | acituan wrote: | I would say lack of home internet could even be an advantage. | Because the moment new demographics go online en masse, big | internet corporations start salivating. | | Without home internet no distractions, no dopamine hijacks, | no content control issues, most importantly no imperative for | parents to gain technological familiarity if they want to | protect their kids. Kids could simply use school internet for | research, download the relevant content, do the deep dive at | home like they would do with any book from a library. | MomoXenosaga wrote: | And this is why Argentina is an economic wonder. | Koshkin wrote: | I get what you are saying, but we have to learn to live | meaningfully, with the internet being now an inalienable | part of our lives. | IncRnd wrote: | > we have to learn to live meaningfully, with the | internet being now an inalienable part of our lives. | | The Internet isn't what gives meaning to life. | Retric wrote: | Why? The Amish are the extreme example, but you can | minimize or even cut out the internet from your life if | you want to. | Mediterraneo10 wrote: | In Europe, more and more banks have been slashing opening | hours and the number of clerks at physical locations, or | even closing locations outright, because customers are | expected to do nearly everything through online banking. | Many forms of interaction with the state require using | their online portal, and even if you visit the government | office, they may just show you how to do what you need | through the online portal instead of helping you | directly. Programs to assist people who do not have a | phone and internet, now focus on giving those people a | phone and internet; there simply isn't willingness to | make technology optional for that tiny demographic that | eschews internet use. | | Yes, the Amish have managed in the USA so far, but I | think that even those days are numbered. Just as many | Amish already own mobile phones, though they limit their | use and keep them stashed away most of the time, they | will be forced to do online things, too. | swiley wrote: | Having grown up here I think a lot of people would freak | out if you _had_ to use computers for services. The town | I grew up in doesn 't even let you pay taxes online in | 2021. | xnyan wrote: | In addition to what the other responder said (the Amish | generally have some tech stashed away for use when | necessary), a part of being Amish is being part of a | community of other Amish people. Just like in a Orthodox | Jewish community you will see Sabbath mode elevators on | Saturday, Amish communities have access to services that | bridge the internet and their moral code. There are | services that will print stuff from the internet and have | it sent to you, or an outsider accountant that manage | your internet-accessible financial services. They are not | really cutting the internet or its consequences from | their life but rather in some cases cutting out their | direct interaction with the internet. | zeristor wrote: | I've had this idea about using IPFS via buses and bus stops | to disseminate data around. | | Probably impractical, India 4G connections seem to have been | very succeful. | Scoundreller wrote: | Does IPFS do a good job of intermittently-online mostly- | offline nodes with potentially non-linear updates? | | Been spitballing the same concepts but with mobile phones | (on a person or stashed on aircraft doing their weekly | freight/mail run) where unused space is the bandwidth. Can | move hundreds of gbs at zero cost but meh latency, as | you're imagining. | StavrosK wrote: | In my experience, IPFS doesn't even do a good job of | fully-online updates. Maybe my setup was bad, but I | couldn't get it to reliably and quickly discover content | on other nodes that were definitely online. | eric__cartman wrote: | I completely agree. That's why I mainly blamed the education | system. I never said these computers are a bad idea. But if | they don't properly implement any of this technology, the | number of students that benefit from this are smaller. | There's always the ones that discover new and interesting | things on their own, and maybe even make a carrier out of | them, like the music production examples given here, | programming, digital art, etc... | | This could have been implemented in a better way. That's all | I'm saying. It's still good that there students are getting | access to computers at home. Even if 25% of them can take | advantage of this, that's still a huge number of people. | andrekandre wrote: | this kind of thing unfortunately is an old issue, people | think they can just dump computers (or musical instruments | as another example) on students and it will be enough | | as usual, its the hard work to set up the infrastructure, | courses, support etc for the students and teachers that is | needed and almost never gets done | | as they say, the music isnt in the piano, same with | computers | syedkarim wrote: | What's the name of the Australian radio/mail distance | learning program? | canadianfella wrote: | School of the air | | https://lmgtfy.app/?q=What%27s+the+name+of+the+Australian+r | a... | yesenadam wrote: | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Air | pelasaco wrote: | But where in the article is being stated that a computer would | replace quality education? The article is just describing an | unexpected artistic scene development. | gfiorav wrote: | I think it makes sense even if 1 out of 100 will find it to be | a deal breaker in their education. The returns you can get from | that 1% migth pay for the 99% waste. | audit wrote: | You mention about lack of connectivity. I agree with you, that | it is not just the device, but the good quality connectivity, | that creates this 'jump' in availability of educational content | / etc. | | Is the government making good concentrated efforts to get that | solved ? Or is the broadband availability is mostly allotted to | the efforts of private enterprises ? | dukeofdoom wrote: | That's cool, but wasn't the Renaissance having masters teach kids | from very early age their art intensively every day. Youtube is a | poor substitute for that kind of learning, since most videos | don't go into in-depth and don't provide critical feedback to the | pupil. | AnotherGoodName wrote: | I've never heard of learning directly off masters as being part | of the Renaissance? People have been learning directly since | ancient times but it doesn't scale. | | In fact I'll go as far as to say a requirement for masters to | teach students is an inhibitor to widespread learning and the | invention of the printing press is what allowed us to avoid | this. Similar to the revolution that the internet is creating. | dukeofdoom wrote: | I'm not disagreeing with you totally. Just want to point out | that learning from a master, has a lot of benefits that you | are overlooking. It's not necessarily about the absolute | number of people that learn some skill at some novice level. | The Renaissance, especially painting, was about having elite | level of skill. That kind of skill needs to be taught | intensively from early age, and get feedback when you are | doing things wrong. Often with self directed learning the | problem is "you don't know what you don't know". And you get | stuck too often. For example, if you want to be an elite | soccer player, ideally you will start at a very young age, | and you will need a coach to give feedback and other players | to play again at increasing competitiveness you can practice | against. You can't get to elite level from watching youtube | alone. In fact, the role of the coach in some ways is to | filter out the people that are not making progress due to | even things as unfair as natural physical ability. Selecting | for those players and letting them pass on through the club | system is how we arrive at someone as skilled as Ronaldo. | Daishiman wrote: | The vast majority of us aren't learning from masters; we | learn who moderately qualified teachers who do what they | can. | | Nothing from what I learned in Uni prepared me to actually | be a software engineer, yet here I am (as well as most of | us who are reading this, I assume). | | The world's progress doesn't depend on a few exceptional | people, but it does require a competent majority. | hbosch wrote: | >Youtube is a poor substitute for that kind of learning, since | most videos don't go into in-depth and don't provide critical | feedback to the pupil. | | I agree with the latter point but not the former. Many, many | YouTube videos on many, many subjects are sufficiently in- | depth. I remodeled my garage and built my home office in it | largely with knowledge I learned from builders and tradesmen on | YouTube. Practices like drywalling, installing and leveling | doors, sealing concrete, changing light switches and | receptacles, and doing trimwork are some of the things that I | knew nothing about and then learned how to do well enough for | me to WFH at the start of the pandemic. | | In the world of music, and especially hip hop, production and | mastering YouTube is perhaps the best school on the planet. The | amount of knowledge being uploaded and viewed daily is | absolutely a world wonder. | | And while YouTube authors and creators aren't able to give | _critical feedback_ directly from their channels, usually, some | do[1][2][3]... and even if they didn 't, it's not like there is | a shortage of places on the internet to get critique on your | art. | | ___ | | 1. Deadmau5 reviewing a track submission: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY76tO4qe8Q | | 2. Well-known hip hop producer Kenny Beats holds beat battles | on his Twitch, this video is from a contestant who regularly | enters the contests: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djLT5OQbHpw | | 3. Music reviewer Anthony Fantano routinely does amateur track | reviews with his fans and followers on Twitch, live: | https://twitter.com/theneedledrop/status/1405171034538582017 | (Sorry, no VODs on his Twitch that I can see... which is common | for music-centric channels unfortunately) | karaterobot wrote: | Now that you mention it, it is kind of strange that Renaissance | is capitalized in the title of the HN submission, when it isn't | in the article. Oh well. | | When I think of an artistic renaissance (lower-case), I think | of emerging from a fallow period into a new, productive, | innovative period. The article makes the case that this is what | happened in Argentina as a result of these netbooks. I can't | say if that's true or not, but the word choice is reasonable to | me. | knolax wrote: | > it is kind of strange that Renaissance is capitalized | | Autocorrect. | truth_ wrote: | You have to work with what you have. | | And while I am unaware of the music scene of YT, you can get | access to world-class tutorials in CS topics- from MIT, | Stanford, etc. They are as good as any. | | And, yes, critical feedback is very important, but while you | cannot properly substitute the feedback you get at unis, you | can learn to live with and benefit from internet forums, | groups, subreddits, etc. | peraspera wrote: | I noticed no mention to it, so here's the Debian-based OS used by | this government programme: | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huayra_GNU%2FLinux?wprov=sfla1 | rmason wrote: | In the fifties and sixties every school child in Detroit got | musical instruction. They loaned me a violin and my sister | learned the flute. There was a music company downtown that would | sell your parents used instruments on a payment plan. | | Out of all that came Motown, a strong rock scene (Alice Cooper, | Bob Seger, Ted Nugent and more) and the birth of electronic | music. Not to mention scores of excellent session musicians as | well as a vibrant club scene. | | By the seventies the music program was cut due to budget concerns | and that downtown music store went out of business. | | Could it happens again? Detroit just announced a program to give | every teenager a remanufactured laptop and subsidized Internet. | There would be more if the schools restarted music instruction | but poor kids can be pretty resourceful;<). | | https://www.freep.com/story/news/education/2020/04/23/detroi... | samatman wrote: | Just gotta throw this out there: Bob Seger went to the same | high school as I did (and Iggy Pop), and that high school is in | Ann Arbor. | | Which also had quality music instruction at all levels of | education, at least through the 90s, _and_ had Detroit just | down I-94 for somewhere to go and become a pro at it. | rmason wrote: | Both Bob Seger and Iggy Pop became famous performing at the | famous Grande Ballroom. Along with Ted Nugent, the MC5, Alice | Cooper and many, many more. | | The Grande like many Detroit buildings is an absolute wreck. | Any other city would have led restoration efforts of this | famous Rock temple before now but the city lacks funds and | it's in the worst area of the city. | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Ballroom | wolverine876 wrote: | I didn't know that about music education in Detroit; that's | great and an important story. | | > poor kids can be pretty resourceful | | They are, in fact, like every other kid! | | > Out of all that came Motown, a strong rock scene (Alice | Cooper, Bob Seger, Ted Nugent and more) and the birth of | electronic music. | | And punk (MC5, Iggy Pop & the Stooges) and funkadelic (George | Clinton, etc.). Also, to nitpick, it was the birth of techno, | not electronic music. | rmason wrote: | You are correct about techno. I didn't mention MC5 (one of my | all time favorites) because only boomers know them. Iggy Pop | is an Ann Arbor kid though he came to fame at Detroit clubs. | desine wrote: | I may be mistaken, but as a synth head, the stories I heard | placed the origins of Techno, House, and the birth of | Electronic Dance Musicin the decline the post Motown / Rock / | Disco era. Early drum machines and rhythm machines, including | the Roland TB-303 and TR-808 were not well regarded in the | studio for music that was performed via traditional | instruments. Many studios, producers, and musicians purchased | these state of the art devices for several hundreds of | dollars (equivalent to thousands, today), then sold them very | cheaply to pawn shops and secondhand stores in cities, | because few musicians liked they way they sounded. It was | then the youths who picked these up cheaply that started | using them on their own right, and embracing their | untraditional sound. | | I'm sure the musical education was a big factor, but I wanted | to point out this other part of the story - it relates well | to TFA. Most of us in the first world would scoff at using a | 10" netbook with 1 GB of RAM, even if it were free. Similarly | many musicians scoffed at using drum machine, even if were | free compared to a costly studio drummer. | breakfastduck wrote: | Not even nitpicking - someone reading the original comment | who doesn't know about music history would read that and | think the USA created electronic music which is so | unbelievably far from correct it's cringeworthy. | rmason wrote: | Go ahead be my guest and nitpick ;<). Obviously I meant | techno not electronic music. I am a fan of Kraftwerk and I | believe they are one of many German electronic music bands. | cromka wrote: | US created disco (NYC), funk (NOLA), house (Chicago) and, | simultaneously with Germany, techno (Detroit). US is also | where many very crucial synthesizers were built, especially | Moog (the rest of them came mostly from Japan). I don't | think it's far fetched to say that US has been a birthplace | of what we now know as electronic music. | | PS. Saying this as an European, into electronic music of | all genres since 20 years. | smoldesu wrote: | I believe they still run programs like this in the richer parts | of Michigan. I've been out of the Michigan educational system | for a few years now, but I think Howell and Albion still loan | instruments. It's pretty heartbreaking that Detroit is | struggling to pay contractors to remove mold from the classroom | when 100 miles away they're giving away musical instruments. | PaulDavisThe1st wrote: | > and the birth of electronic music. | | even with the amended version (s/electronic/techno/), this | still needs attention ... subthread here, from about a month | ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27093490 | 52-6F-62 wrote: | And because of Motown you have Neil Young, the Blues Brothers | films, Dave Chapelle's unflappable impressions of Rick James, | _Rodriguez_ (kind of?), the list goes on! | grillvogel wrote: | yay more soundcloud rappers | tibbydudeza wrote: | Kind of ironic that Steve Jobs mocked netbooks when he punted his | $499 iPad. | conanbatt wrote: | The computers cost 500U$S and their market value was less than | 100U$S. | | After one year, 60%+ of the computers were never turned on again. | | They sucked, it was a rip-off. | | Bonus: 60% of children fall below the poverty line in argentina. | A great number of these do not have 2 meals a day. | alamortsubite wrote: | The article touches on it only briefly, but the subtle irony here | is the government has starved Argentines of consumer tech for | decades (via protectionist trade policies). So to me this could | be described less as a "sparking of a renaissance" and more like | the opening of a floodgate. | otrahuevada wrote: | Couple things; | | 1) Just please don't call any random working class neighborhood a | slum? That's not very helpful. | | 2) Given the poverty is a central theme on the article, it could | have been good to at least in passing involve the Popular | Orchestras program that does specifically target low income | townships and neighborhoods all over the country trying to | involve them in the classical music world and providing them with | tools to better cope with their reality through music. | forinti wrote: | I think we shouldn't call any place a slum. They should be all | "neighbourhoods". | | Slums, villas, favelas, end up being treated differently and | things that would be unacceptable anywhere else (such as police | entering your house without a warrant) become perfectly normal. | dep_b wrote: | La Boca still has some pretty bad spots, despite being a | tourist trap in two or three streets. | otrahuevada wrote: | I'd say unless you also started calling Retiro -which holds | one of the oldest actual slums, Villa 31-, Flores, Floresta, | Colegiales, Paternal, San Justo and Avellaneda slums, hosting | a couple sketchy places does not a slum make. | | I grew up in there and up to a couple years ago when I | emigrated I visited regularly. Yes, it is a dock workers | neighborhood packed with immigrants, not a cool location with | 5 usd empanada-in-a-jar type restaurants but it's not a slum | unless everything is. | dzonga wrote: | this is also adds more to the importance of recycling | electronics. I always try buy used thinkpad's to give to my folks | back in africa. because end of day thinkpad's are excellent | hardware and will continue to be. plus easily repairable. | hopefully one day, someone I give a thinkpad to, will use to | nurture some talent. | mncharity wrote: | OT, but... While working on One Laptop Per Child, there seemed | potential to disrupt science education content. Science | researchers who normally wouldn't prioritize contributing to | education content, were being drawn in by the possibility of | rapidly reaching millions instead of thousands of students. The | "build it and they will come" of a massive new and empty app | "store". Plus the context of non-commercial "change the world" | Open Education Resources. | | So that didn't happen. And more recently, maybe if VR/AR had | taken off more sharply, there might have been a similar effect. | But no. | | So here in the future... I don't know how to quickly convey just | what wretched dreck, err, how wonderfully better content could | be. How about this: Kindergarten through undergrad, students are | told the Sun is yellow, in textbooks and outreach. Then an | infinitesimal few finally get an "oops, sorry, nope, our bad" | from a graduate class on common misconceptions in astronomy | education. Incoherent dreck, err, opportunity for wonderful | improvement, doesn't begin to describe current content. | | So my question is, does anyone know of vaguely similar potential | for disruptive improvement in the quality of science education | content? | | Instructor performance art focuses on specific students, and | limited outcome goals, under severe resource constraints. Science | education research focuses on isolated deployable improvements. | But "big interdisciplinary creative mashup of improvements, | catalyzed by massive collaboration of research expertise"... | isn't a thing, isn't something we're set up for, or incentivized | to do. | | But it's what I'm interested in. So, any thoughts? | StavrosK wrote: | Not exactly relevant to your post, but I'm dismayed by the | number of people who refuse to believe that water is blue. I | don't mind that nobody _knows_ that, it 's an obscure fact, but | the fact that they refuse to believe something that explains a | bunch of everyday phenomena (like the color of the sea) makes | me sad. ___________________________________________________________________ (page generated 2021-06-17 23:00 UTC)