[HN Gopher] What mRNA is good for, and what it maybe isn't
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       What mRNA is good for, and what it maybe isn't
        
       Author : jseliger
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2021-06-29 20:38 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blogs.sciencemag.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blogs.sciencemag.org)
        
       | espenwa wrote:
       | When it comes to the problem of targeting, one interesting and
       | promising tech is photochemical internalisation [https://en.m.wik
       | ipedia.org/wiki/Photochemical_internalizatio...], where you put
       | the mRNA inside photosensitive molecules (and not lipids) and
       | then shine some light on the tissue/organ where you want the mRNA
       | delivered. Where activated by the light, the molecules then enter
       | the cells, dissolves and deliver the mRNA. The Norwegian company
       | PCI Biotech has a tech they call fimaNAc for doing this with
       | naked mRNA.
       | 
       | https://www.pcibiotech.no/nucleicacids
       | https://www.pcibiotech.no/s/PCI-Biotech-SMi-RNA-Therapeutics...
        
       | lazyjones wrote:
       | I am worried about the low level of intact mRNA in those
       | vaccines, esp. as an IT guy.
       | 
       | https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/early-concerns-rai...
       | 
       | 25-45% randomly modified or defective mRNA doesn't sound safe.
       | It's a bit like machine code with random errors, isn't it?
        
         | wahern wrote:
         | What's the replication accuracy of SARS-CoV-2?
        
         | nabla9 wrote:
         | That's why there are clinical trials. Humans testing to find
         | out what happens.
         | 
         | All mRNA disappears from body in few days anyway.
        
         | pjscott wrote:
         | RNA uses an error-correcting code, and if that fails all that
         | should happen is that some of the proteins your ribosomes
         | create will be misshapen. Your body is good at dealing with
         | foreign proteins.
        
           | tgb wrote:
           | What error correction does RNA have? Are you just referring
           | to the third base in the codons? DNA has some but I don't
           | know of any for RNA, and it hardly seems worth it for most
           | organisms to have RNA error-correction: it's better to just
           | degrade the RNA and retranscribe it.
        
         | anonymouse008 wrote:
         | One of the most amazing talks on OOP was Alan Kay linking the
         | approach to biology.
         | 
         | I had just gotten into Swift and started loving on
         | NotificationCenter - so when he spoke to how messages fly
         | around programs like hormones and proteins in the body,
         | transferring states, it was an Ah ha! I finally realized why I
         | loved (and misused) Notifications.
         | 
         | Then this whole mRNA vaccine came about -- and I remembered the
         | absolute terror and anxiety of my dealings with unknown
         | Notification Center errors and how little can be correlated
         | because the debugger doesn't really trace down where said
         | object who is screwing up some UI got the notification from --
         | I had 1000s of objects all screaming messages in house of
         | electrons... thankfully no ones body was on the line.
         | 
         | Now I'm not saying I'm anywhere near a biologist or PhD
         | virologist... but we sure are learning more about the body's
         | mechanics each day, and it's not that far of a stretch for us
         | to say there may be some latent or unindented effect of having
         | a spike protein (either properly transcribed or not) flying
         | around knocking into objects with open handlers.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | > So if you're going to give patients an mRNA injection and you
       | don't want to set off alarm bells in the innate immune system,
       | you're going to have to carefully engineer your sequences at the
       | very least.
       | 
       | Isn't that what substituting uracil by pseudouridine solves?
        
         | klevertree wrote:
         | No, that substitution helps, but it doesn't solve the problem.
         | You're still introducing foreign mRNA into the body, and the
         | body still has millions of years of evolution telling it that
         | foreign mRNA = invader .
        
       | klevertree wrote:
       | I wrote a long essay about the same topic and came to similar
       | conclusions as Derek Lowe: https://trevorklee.com/are-mrna-
       | therapies-the-future-of-phar...
       | 
       | One thing that I'd like to emphasize is how unbelievably tiny
       | mRNA therapeutics have to be. It's probably around 30 mg, and
       | it's hard to do it more than once every few weeks, at least
       | judging by siRNA therapeutics (which have similar immune issues).
       | 
       | 30 mg is really tiny. It's hard to come up with a meaningful
       | therapeutic in such a small amount of material. People have been
       | hyping up self-replicating mRNA as a solution, but that's still
       | in its infancy, and has its own problems regarding the
       | "compilers"/polymerases that need to be packaged with it.
        
       | readams wrote:
       | Worth noting that even if it's good for literally only infectious
       | disease vaccines, we're still taking about an enormous
       | breakthrough with the potential to save hundreds of millions of
       | lives. Imagine vaccines for malaria, HIV, Zika, and many others.
        
       | InTheArena wrote:
       | Derek Lowe's articles during covid have been a huge help trying
       | to navigate the coronavirus hellscape we have been in. It's great
       | to see him start to talk post-covid applications of medicine as
       | things maybe wind down a bit. _Delta+ willing_
        
         | sjg007 wrote:
         | Delta+ and the next variant after that just in time for school
         | in the Fall and a bunch of unvaccinated kids.
        
         | nabla9 wrote:
         | His "Things I Won't Work With" articles are really informative
         | and entertaining.
         | 
         | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/category/thin...
         | 
         | For example: Things I Won't Work With: Dioxygen Difluoride
         | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2010/02/23/th...
        
         | wbl wrote:
         | We could retarget the mRNA batches tonight if it wasn't for the
         | FDA not taking this seriously.
        
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