[HN Gopher] 1970s mainframe RPGs we can no longer play
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1970s mainframe RPGs we can no longer play
Author : Tomte
Score : 191 points
Date : 2021-06-30 16:30 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (crpgaddict.blogspot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (crpgaddict.blogspot.com)
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| At UofIowa we had two interesting home-grown RPGs. One was 'AG'
| which stood for the initials of the author Alan Guiles. It
| consisted of modules e.g. AgWild, AgTown, AgFt (fight) etc.
| Written in HP 2000 Acess BASIC. You had a small text grid printed
| with your location marked as a '*'. Each module had a different
| view. At any module you could meet a monster and end up in the
| 'fight' view, which was a linear scale beginning with the monster
| at the top and you at the bottom. You could advance, retreat, hit
| or fire an arrow or spell. The arrows and spells were ranged. You
| could also Evade and avoid the fight, which didn't always work.
| There were some other interesting modules like an Inn where you
| could gamble (blackjack, roulette...). It was single-player but
| everybody appeared on a top-score screen. It was a big deal to
| get on the 1st page! I did it once.
|
| The other was called 'Wilder' and was done by Jon Sawyer. It
| stood for 'Wilderness' and was multi-player. You could Yell and
| Listen and communicate with other online players. Some kind of
| combat with monsters. I don't recall if you could fight P2P? Have
| to ask Jon about that.
|
| Anyway there were quite a few 'mainframe' games written at about
| the same time at Iowa - a two-player war game WR12, a real-time
| Star Trek game labelled 'Begin' (because the login module was
| called 'Begin') with multiple fleets and three or four kinds of
| weapon. It still has a fan site! And smaller simple games like
| Trek3D, TREK1D (a joke), Combat, Patrol and several more.
|
| It was a big deal, with students getting access to terminals for
| the first time and getting inventive.
| daniel_rh wrote:
| Wow you played begin too! I added multiplayer through DOSbox--
|
| it was interesting that the AI craft were just like player
| craft but had a different controller. It was possible to splice
| in keyboard input for that. Then I wrote some screen scraping
| software to send the commands remotely.
|
| Here's the software project http://begin2.sourceforge.net/
|
| Unfortunately the sourceforge matchmaking server has long gone
| offline, but you could connect direct to IP addresses too, so
| it should still be playable
| oilbagz wrote:
| It was 1981, and the first "Computer Age" shop had opened up in
| my town, a place called Claremont - more of a suburb, really,
| of Perth, Australia. A lucky place, for it meant there was ..
| inside an air-conditioned cube .. a row of Atari and Apple
| computers.
|
| Two school-kids are sitting there, tapping away, at something
| from a magazine. It looks immensely interesting, but they scowl
| at me as I get closer as if not to interrupt. So I go poke on
| an Atari, and immediately dislike its membrane.
|
| The sales guy, probably only a few years beyond his teens,
| unlike me not yet begun, grins and nods over at another Apple
| II machine, newly set up. I have _no_ idea what I 'm doing, but
| I bang away at it "HELLO" this and "dO somehting" this and
| whatever, until the sales guy swoops in, wangs in a floppy,
| hits the reset combo and lets me play SABOTAGE for the rest of
| the afternoon.
|
| The next day, after an interminably long day at school, I
| arrive with a freshly purloined magazine of my own. The same
| kids from before are there, just minutes before me probably but
| seemingly there all night, and are having a blast. They
| proudly, this time, beckon me over to 'have a go' at their
| game, TREK, wherein I am an "+" and there are "*"'s and . and
| #'s all over the place.
|
| After witnessing me fail miserably, yet nevertheless
| programmatically successfully, these older kids chortle
| themselves out into the heat .. and I stick around to learn how
| to copy it to another floppy disk. The sales guy obliges, and
| gives me my first 5.4" floppy disk to save things on, "as long
| as you come back tomorrow and type a few more programs in, from
| those magazines you kids have..."
|
| So, I did. What a summer it was.
|
| I'll never forget those older nerds.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| What an awesome sales guy
| oilbagz wrote:
| Yeah, I guess they sold quite a few VERY expensive machines
| in that neighborhood, and there were raging arcade game
| controversies going along at the same time, so seeing kids
| do 'productive' things with computers - like program
| simulated galactic war games - seemed like a responsible
| thing to do.
|
| In my case, that guy gave me a raging passion for computers
| that has led, 40 years later, to ridiculous things
| happening.
|
| The "Computer Age" place stuck around for only a few years
| afterwards .. the cognescenti of my hacker club at school
| discovered TANDY and Dick Smith as places to test new
| hilarious routines .. and, meanwhile, some of us got
| modems.
|
| Good times. I think my Mum still had that floppy disk
| around in her memoirs, somewhere. Something about how she
| righteously retrieved it from an old, much loathed, school
| principle, who had zero idea what it was, or what it would
| ever mean for the world that a 10 year old kid had
| simulated galactic war games on his person, in lieu of math
| homework, or so.
|
| Anyway, yeah. Great sales guy, would time-travel and
| witness again.
| nicnic3 wrote:
| I was a teenager visiting Computer Age on the weekends at
| the same time. It was a time when computer access was
| still scarce and you hung around shops and went to
| conventions just to get access to one. Some friends used
| to go to the tandy store each afternoon after school and
| type in a lunar lander game they had written on the tandy
| 100 for sale. Each day the shop would turn of all the
| machines and wipe the game so they would go back up the
| next day and type it in again.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| It really was the best era, and lots that I can relate to
| in your story there, though I was on the far opposite
| side of the world in snowy cold Edmonton, Canada.
|
| And re: the principal, here's a great quote from my grade
| 3 report card which I get a kick out of, and use to help
| my kids feel better about their report cards:
|
| _" XXX's work is very untidy. More work is needed in
| cursive writing. His journal entries are computer
| programs."_
|
| I wish I could find that teacher today and send her a
| copy of my job offer from Google from 10 years ago.
| smackeyacky wrote:
| Wow that sounds very different to my experience back then.
| Nerdy kid trying to get time on a computer in a shop in
| Canberra - generally the sales dudes would chase you out of
| the shop. The "Computerland" store in Philip was the worst
| offender for that. The Microbee people were slightly better
| so I am pretty sure that's how we ended up with one (plus the
| Apple and Atari machines were insanely expensive back then,
| and the Commodores seemed like toys).
| paul_f wrote:
| There must have been multiple Star Trek games. This is the one
| I remember playing. Written by Mike Mayfield
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(1971_video_game)
| skinwill wrote:
| I have VERY fond memories of that game from 1986. My father
| who was teaching at a community college in Iowa had a copy of
| that game running on a VAX11. I recall that to play the game
| he had to walk to the data center and, inside a cabinet,
| physically unplug the cable for his terminal and plug it into
| another port. The connector on the cable looked like a large
| rectangular multi pin monster. Back at his desk, his green
| screen terminal was ready to play the game. I was 5, it was
| very awesome.
| mherdeg wrote:
| Every couple of years I get nostalgic and wish I could find the
| short text adventure CastleQuest, which existed on the CompuServe
| BBS but is otherwise afaik just gone (
| http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/in-search-of-LONG0751/castle...
| ).
|
| Ah well. Some things are just gone.
| wtetzner wrote:
| See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27691788
| SirYandi wrote:
| Might be your lucky day. Just further down the thread Jabl
| posted:
|
| > Recently an old text adventure game 'Castlequest' from 1980
| was recovered
| (https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2021/03/09/castlequest/ ),
| and there are even some efforts to modernize it
| (https://gitlab.com/apthorpe/Castlequest).
| jabl wrote:
| Recently an old text adventure game 'Castlequest' from 1980 was
| recovered
| (https://quuxplusone.github.io/blog/2021/03/09/castlequest/ ),
| and there are even some efforts to modernize it
| (https://gitlab.com/apthorpe/Castlequest).
| jghn wrote:
| Oh wow. As soon as I read the opening text I remembered playing
| that game. Also did not realize it had sprung forth from RPI.
| grawprog wrote:
| I'm really fascinated by that era of computer gaming, well that
| era of computers in general. I've been following this blog about
| text games since I first seen it on HN.
|
| https://if50.substack.com/
|
| The earlier entries talk about some of the same stuff mentioned
| in this article.
|
| Reading about these things, I dunno, it reminds me of the wild
| west or something.
|
| All these university students and programmers writing illicit
| games like outlaws, hiding their games under simple file names
| that became almost memes for the ones in the know at the school.
|
| It's really cool and those people are the reason why video games
| and computers became a thing.
|
| Everytime I learn more about the early history of computers or
| even video games it always makes me happy. I dunno, to see how
| far it's all come, to have grown up watching a lot of it evolve.
|
| It's just always great to read about.
| tclancy wrote:
| Definitely second the recommendation for that substack.
| adam wrote:
| I would encourage anyone with a little extra time to read about
| the PLATO system. Truly ahead of its time, invented by an
| engineer at University of Illinois named Don Bitzer
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bitzer
|
| I was fortunate to have a parent who worked for Dr. Bitzer and we
| had a PLATO terminal at home, hardwired in to the university
| mainframe at 1200 Bd. Played most of the games mentioned in the
| article along with Empire, a Star Trek-inspired multiplayer team
| game. Great memories.
| qq4 wrote:
| TIL more about plasma displays. Thank you Mr. Bitzer for
| helping create the television I enjoy so much.
| cnasc wrote:
| http://friendlyorangeglow.com/ was amazing! Made me wish I'd
| been around to experience it.
| pinewurst wrote:
| Also "The Friendly Orange Glow" book (by Brian Dear) is
| outstanding.
| johnday wrote:
| That is exactly what the parent, to whom you responded,
| just linked.
| bbulkow wrote:
| I used Plato at udel , and had my first programming jobs there.
| It is hard to underestimate how far ahead they were, and that
| system influenced all my designs in my entire career.
|
| Like realtime chat with any other user, character by character
| updates (what, you have to press enter to send? primitive!)
|
| Friday afternoon dogfights used a lot of resources, but were
| super cool. Tens and maybe 100 users all in the same real time
| flight space, duking it out...
| irrational wrote:
| > what, you have to press enter to send? primitive!
|
| Is that really good UX? I want to have a chance to fix my
| typos and other errors before sending.
| mimixco wrote:
| My high school had one they left abandoned in an unused science
| classroom. Yours truly found many excuses for hanging out in
| there. When they found out I was actually using it, they left
| me alone.
|
| This one was standalone, so a later model. Also the screen was
| bluish-white as opposed to the orange ones that I see photos
| of. All of the software was on floppies and much of it of the
| educational/industrial ilk. _How to Not Kill Yourself With
| Chemicals,_ and _So, You 're a Sociopath._ That sort of thing.
|
| It was awesome.
| surye wrote:
| Much later than these, but I remember quite fondly all the DOOR
| BBS RPGs and games on our local BBSes in the mid 90s. I would
| come home from school, grab the really long phone cable coiled
| up, and run it across the house to the kitchen so I could log on.
| driverdan wrote:
| I loved BBS games. I called multiple BBSes daily to play LoRD
| and a few other games. I ran a BBS in high school during the
| late 90's with LoRD and a handful of IGMs.
| FascistDonut wrote:
| I absolutely loved DOOR games like Exitilus and Legend of the
| Red Dragon.
| sedatk wrote:
| I'd written a couple of door games and shareware door
| software myself in Turkey. I had even developed my own door
| software engine on Turbo Pascal called OpenDoor :) Fun times.
| convolvatron wrote:
| I played this extremely addictive Mud on MECC (a CDC machine)
| throughout the 70s. does anyone remember what it was called?
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| I was fortunate to be at a university where a PLATO system was
| installed for e-learning - we found the games directory and
| SpaceWars.
| angst_ridden wrote:
| In the late 70s, or early 80s, I played Dungeon on one of the
| Caltech/JPL PDP-11s. My father brough home an accoustic-coupled
| terminal, and I went through a lot of paper. The version I played
| had been modified to take place in the Arroyo Seco up behind JPL.
| I wonder if whoever did that is still around?
| WalterBright wrote:
| A 1970s version of Empire for the PDP-10:
|
| https://github.com/DigitalMars/Empire-for-PDP-10
| oilbagz wrote:
| I am a retro-computing fanboy and recently have been reliving the
| world of text adventure games on one of my most favoured "failed"
| computers of the 80's, the Oric-1/Atmos range of UK 8-bit
| machines.
|
| https://www.oric.org/index.php?page=software
|
| (Search for i.e. 'adventure')
|
| The aesthetic is so pure, and in the context of oric.org, the
| titles are a testament to the spirit of an entirely different
| form of walled-garden/app-store.
|
| I favour the Oric, and many of the great old architectures like
| it (Amstrad CPC6128!!) not for much more salient reason than it
| was my first 'real' computer, on which I first gained an immense
| amount of arcane knowledge that led me to an even more immense
| amount of arcana.
|
| The adventure has been text since the very first day. A coders
| adventure game never STOP's.
|
| *bonus edit: everything old is new again, and it is awesome:
|
| https://defence-force.org/index.php?page=games&game=blakes7
| nickt wrote:
| I'm sure getting an Oric and Blake's 7 reference in a single
| post qualifies for a special upvote around here! Thanks for
| sharing, both great sites. I'll dig out that Atmos I have in
| the basement!
| TillE wrote:
| The whole blog is a fantastic exercise in documenting the history
| of CRPGs, describing and evaluating each game, and analyzing how
| they all influence each other. He'll often put extra effort into
| tracking down copies of obscure games and contacting authors.
|
| In some ways it reminds me of Jon Peterson's "Playing at the
| World", which thoroughly documents the origins and early history
| of D&D, which started the genre.
| neworder wrote:
| I second that. Crpgaddict's work ethic is beyond legendary, at
| times bordering on insanity. Honestly, I find Chet's blog to be
| one of the best and most valuable places on the internet these
| days (and I mean this literally). A modern day's monk, really.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| If you like reading about the history of CRPG's you'll love
| _The Digital Antiquarian_ [1]
|
| [1] - https://www.filfre.net/hall-of-fame/
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Exactly. This guy is amazing and his perservarance is beyond my
| understanding. I secretly wish someone had the courage to
| actually stream playing these games, would actually take less
| time as he doesn't need to summarize and write stuffs.
|
| Maybe I'll do that when I'm semi-retired.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| God bless the people who write emulators. All of these lost
| forever - quite the tragedy.
|
| Oubliette looks interesting and so raw!
| mulmen wrote:
| Liberal Crime Squad is based on Oubliette and I believe some
| forks are still in active development.
|
| http://www.bay12games.com/lcs/ http://lcs.wikidot.com/
| krylon wrote:
| It's available in the OpenBSD ports collection. I have no
| clue, though, how recent their version is. I never really got
| the hang of it, but it's a fun game.
|
| I have a soft spot for these old games that are very
| primitive in the graphics and sound department (if there even
| is sound) but make up for in complex gameplay.
| bserge wrote:
| Not as old as the others in this thread, but Fire Emblem for
| the Gameboy Advance were so good. I never got to play them on
| the original console, only on an Android emulator.
|
| Somehow, they're better than most modern RPGs. I can't explain
| it.
|
| I like the storylines and somehow the visuals are great and it
| can all fit in a tiny amount of memory.
|
| Completely offline, too, which is a rarity these days.
| postalrat wrote:
| The GBA and later the DS are IMO some of the best platforms
| for RPGs.
| anthk wrote:
| The SNES is better. Today you can play these Japan only
| gems thanks to hacktranslated ROMs.
| floren wrote:
| If you're interested in the PLATO system, there's a public-access
| machine online at https://www.cyber1.org/index.asp
| musicale wrote:
| PLATO was a very interesting system that isn't as well known as
| it should be.
|
| Sadly it's still in copyright/IP lockdown, even though most of
| the system was presumably developed by the University of
| Illinois and the largely defunct CDC. As a result the software
| is unavailable for emulation or study.
|
| https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/PLATO_Computer_...
|
| On the other hand, having multiple users on the system makes it
| more realistic.
|
| And you can play Moria.
| crpgaddict wrote:
| I'm honored to see my blog appear here. I hope some of you pop
| over and comment, particularly if you have any additional
| information or intelligence on those old games!
|
| --Chet Bolingbroke
| nickt wrote:
| Chet, I just discovered your blog today via this post. It's
| going to take me a while to catch up on the last 11 years but
| I'll give it a shot. Thank you so much for your amazing
| contributions and welcome to HN.
| WalterBright wrote:
| There was a game called NUCDES by Erik Verheiden for the PDP-10.
| It was a fun multiplayer game. AFAIK, I'm the only one who
| remembers it :-(
| DiggyJohnson wrote:
| This is an incredible site. I rarely feel so grateful to come
| across something on the web these days.
|
| I'm writing a book about the experience of playing RuneScape -
| needless to say I'm fascinated by Why We Play.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| For whoever is not familiar with CRPG Addict, let me tell you
| that please bookmard/rss his site and you will see a whole new
| world. This guy decided to play pretty much EVERY RPG he can find
| and he is already in year 1993.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Fun stuff, by the time I had access to Plato (1978) 'games' were
| just one of the category of thing you could do with the terminal
| (so 'sanctioned' activities). A roommate of mine got hooked on
| 'Dry Gulch' which was a fairly simple take your mule into the
| mine outside of town and blast away walls for ore, bring it in
| and refine it for gold. You could use gold to buy more mules,
| dynamite and mining tools. A very simple mechanic but quite
| addicting.
| kbenson wrote:
| Drygulch is mentioned at the end of the article, along with
| notes that he can't seem to find any screenshots of it.
|
| _As Drygulch was played well into the mid-1980s, I can 't help
| but think that some photographs, if not screen shots, must
| still exist somewhere, but there don't seem to be any online. I
| don't know why Drygulch wasn't preserved by efforts like
| Cyber1, but I suspect it's because the game was owned by CDC
| and not the University of Illinois._
|
| In case you run across something you're fairly certain is an
| image of this game, I'm sure he would appreciate the
| authentication. :)
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