[HN Gopher] Inside a 20-Watt Traveling Wave Tube Amplifier from ...
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       Inside a 20-Watt Traveling Wave Tube Amplifier from Apollo
        
       Author : chmaynard
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2021-07-08 17:20 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.righto.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.righto.com)
        
       | bluenose69 wrote:
       | It would be interesting to learn more about these systems in the
       | context of today's systems (say, a cell-phone receiving GPS
       | signals), in terms of power received, bandwidth, signal:noise
       | ratio, and so forth.
       | 
       | This kind of comparison can be really enlightening, especially to
       | younger folks. (I'm not one of those folks ... I find it simply
       | amazing how the tiny antenna in my cellphone can receive GPS
       | signals at enough power to be useful for decoding position.)
        
         | kens wrote:
         | You may know that GPS is built around pseudo-random sequences.
         | By correlating the known sequence with what you receive, you
         | can extract the signal from a lot of noise. By determining the
         | time offset in the correlation you get the distance from the
         | satellite.
         | 
         | The interesting thing is that Apollo used a very similar system
         | for determining the distance of the spacecraft. They sent a
         | pseudorandom signal from the ground and the spacecraft returned
         | it. By correlating the sent and received signals, they
         | determined the distance of the spacecraft.
        
       | raverbashing wrote:
       | > Surprisingly, this amplifier only produced 20 watts of power,
       | not much more than a handheld walkie-talkie.
       | 
       | Humm I thought actual radio power of walkie-talkies were in the
       | mW range (for regulation and power consumption reasons).
       | 
       | But yes, 20W of radio power is not little (actually it is a lot)
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Here's a traveling wave tube amp that does 5 kilowatts:
         | https://www.arworld.us/post/5700TP12G18.pdf?44385.7040046296
        
           | madengr wrote:
           | The tube on the cover of this book is 1 MW at 90 GHz.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/Tube-Guys-Norman-H-Pond/dp/0981692303
           | 
           | It's for an airborne ADS (i.e. pain ray). Good book if you
           | want the detailed history of microwave tubes.
        
         | kens wrote:
         | Walkie-talkies are mostly .5 to 5 watts, but you can get ones
         | with 20 to 40 watts. I'm not sure how legal those are.
        
           | kawfey wrote:
           | Whether or not they're legal, they're a bad idea to use next
           | to your head.
        
             | Cerium wrote:
             | Higher power handheld transceivers usually feature a corded
             | microphone to allow increased distance between your head
             | and the antenna.
        
           | Stratoscope wrote:
           | If you're in the US and have an Amateur license, you can
           | generally transmit with up to 1500 watts PEP (Peak Envelope
           | Power). Some lower limits apply; for example a Technician
           | licensee is limited to 200 watts in the HF bands, but may use
           | the full 1500 watts in most VHF/UHF bands.
           | 
           | There is no legal distinction between a handheld and any
           | other kind of transmitter. A transmitter is a transmitter.
           | 
           | There is a legal requirement to use the minimum power needed
           | to carry out the desired communications, so you should not
           | blast out 1500 watts at all times. Especially not next to
           | your head!
           | 
           | http://www.arrl.org/frequency-allocations
        
       | kens wrote:
       | Author here if anyone has questions on Apollo communication...
        
         | java-man wrote:
         | Always enjoy reading your blog. Very informative and
         | entertaining. Thank you so much!
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Do you have any I-V plots of the wave tube?
        
           | kens wrote:
           | I'm not sure that an I-V plot makes sense for a traveling-
           | wave tube. It's not like a regular triode tube where you're
           | controlling via a grid. Instead, you put in an RF signal and
           | the signal comes out amplified.
        
         | tpmx wrote:
         | That epoxy-like plastic the components, posts and wires on the
         | boards in https://static.righto.com/images/sband-
         | twt/transformers.jpg are covered in - looks like it might be a
         | way to perform vibration-proofing? Seems like it would be very
         | robust.
         | 
         | Know anything more about this method?
        
           | kens wrote:
           | The Juno II rocket launch in 1959 spectacularly failed when
           | the rocket did a U-turn after launch. The cause was two
           | diodes touching due to vibration. After that, rocket
           | components were often potted in plastic to prevent similar
           | problems.
           | 
           | Video of launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=885as-
           | VE50g&t=1446s Discussion of diodes: https://youtu.be/885as-
           | VE50g?t=1688
        
             | tpmx wrote:
             | 62 years ago. Just letting that sink in. (Thanks for the
             | video links!)
        
             | ngcc_hk wrote:
             | How does one knew at that time that is the issue ... must
             | be a great detective work!
        
         | dr_dshiv wrote:
         | Do you know anything about the heart rate telemetry they did?
         | 
         | I'm blown away by the description of the helix that slowed down
         | light by 90% so it could interact with the electron beam. Who
         | figured that out? Brilliant.
        
           | jhallenworld wrote:
           | "Rudolf Kompfner in 1942 --notably after his public
           | announcement in 1946-- when he was secretly working on
           | microwave vacuum tubes for the British Admiralty at the
           | University of Birmingham during World War II. But the history
           | of this device is more complex because the traveling-wave
           | tube was, consecutively, discovered thrice independently"
           | 
           | https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01754885/document
        
           | kens wrote:
           | The biomedical telemetry was a bit complicated (as was
           | everything in Apollo). When astronauts were outside, there
           | were 7 channels of analog telemetry transmitted by FM to the
           | Lunar Module. The Lunar Module converted these channels to an
           | AM signal which was transmitted over VHF to the Command
           | Module. The Command Module converted these to PCM data, which
           | was then sent to Earth over the unified S-band system.
           | 
           | For details, see "Unified S-Band Telecommunications
           | Techniques for Apollo" page 11.
           | https://core.ac.uk/reader/80678138
           | 
           | > Who figured that out? [traveling-wave tube amplifier]
           | 
           | It was Andrew Haeff at RCA in 1933:
           | https://patents.google.com/patent/US2064469
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | bwooster wrote:
         | Love your articles Ken! Interesting content, straightforward
         | but not dry writing, helpful diagrams and images and footnotes.
        
         | s800 wrote:
         | More generally, curious about what your plans are for a 400Hz
         | power supply. There are so many interesting avionics,
         | aerospace, etc. equipment which would be interesting to
         | experiment with. Short of spinning a generator, have you found
         | a VFD or something else OTS that can supply suitable power?
         | Tnx!
        
           | kens wrote:
           | CuriousMarc got a VFD box that he thinks will power this, as
           | well as some gyroscopes. I don't know the particular model.
        
       | jcun4128 wrote:
       | It looks so well made, machined block, wow
        
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       (page generated 2021-07-08 23:00 UTC)